DRATS Return To Love

[masterblaster]

I have seen excerpts from this concert on YouTube but has there been a version of the concert in its entirety. Was it ever made available on DVD or transmitted on TV in the US?

[RanRan79]

The tour was cancelled midway through so I hardly doubt anyone behind the scenes would have seen a dvd as a financially sound decision. I believe the airing of the VH1 special tribute to Miss Ross was the closest to anything regarding RTL on television. From the vids I've seen on Youtube it looked like it was a good show. Miss Ross was still in fine vocal form. Had it been a successful tour all the way through, it's possible a dvd package could have been in the works.

[reese]

The opening night show was edited down and shown two nights later as part of VH1's OPENING NIGHT series.

[sansradio]

I have seen excerpts from this concert on YouTube but has there been a version of the concert in its entirety. Was it ever made available on DVD or transmitted on TV in the US?

A full video recording of the concert exists out there in the underground, but it's never commercially seen the light of day. An acquaintance of mine has a copy on VHS [[remember those?).

[daviddh]

the original plan was to tape the last show ,apparently in las vegas and have all the supremes ladies join them on stage and it was to be released as a dvd and a live cd. but it never happened,although I have a copy of the show ,myself. great show.

[vgalindo]

I have bootlegs of the concert. I think Philly and Madison Square Garden. I would love to see the full professional video. I sure wish I knew how to get a copy. I loved this show.

[DJMoch]

I remember watching the Diana tribute on VH1, I actually enjoyed it from what I remember, I just recall hearing about a lot of difficulties with it, technical or otherwise.

[daviddh]

the VH1 special was a mess behind the scenes but I have heard Diana was in a bad space at the time. shortly thereafter RTL Tour began.
sad to me that when other males groups were paid to do reunion tour they were all paid equal amounts. I think one group got 9 million for each member but when it came to the woman in rock. and elsewhere they were paid far less but that was only part of the problem. but its not worth bringing up now/

[Roberta75]

the VH1 special was a mess behind the scenes but I have heard Diana was in a bad space at the time. shortly thereafter RTL Tour began.
sad to me that when other males groups were paid to do reunion tour they were all paid equal amounts. I think one group got 9 million for each member but when it came to the woman in rock. and elsewhere they were paid far less but that was only part of the problem. but its not worth bringing up now/

I agree daviddh but if new members want to know a fair and real accurate accout of Miss Ross and the whole RTL tour they should order A Lifetime To Get Here by Tom Adrahtas. Its the best book an d real rich in history. Everyoner I know thats bought it loves it and its well researched. Heres a ling to order it. Fondly, Roberta

https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Get-Here-American-Dreamgirl/dp/1425971393/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1490658930&sr=1-8&keywords=Diana+Ross

[masterblaster]

I agree daviddh but if new members want to know a fair and real accurate accout of Miss Ross and the whole RTL tour they should order A Lifetime To Get Here by Tom Adrahtas. Its the best book an d real rich in history. Everyoner I know thats bought it loves it and its well researched. Heres a ling to order it. Fondly, Roberta

https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Get-Here-American-Dreamgirl/dp/1425971393/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1490658930&sr=1-8&keywords=Diana+Ross

Thank you for the recommendation Roberta, imdidnt know about this book and have just ordered it. Looking forward to a good read.

[PeaceNHarmony]

The MSG show was epic! Diana's solo 'Reach Out [[I'll Be There)' was a deep-cut dream come true. A shame Cindy Birdsong was talked out of joining the tour; she could really have used the $ and we fans would have loved to see her. But, indeed, no official release as mentioned by everyone who replied before me.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I agree daviddh but if new members want to know a fair and real accurate accout of Miss Ross and the whole RTL tour they should order A Lifetime To Get Here by Tom Adrahtas. Its the best book an d real rich in history. Everyoner I know thats bought it loves it and its well researched. Heres a ling to order it. Fondly, Roberta

https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Get-Here-American-Dreamgirl/dp/1425971393/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1490658930&sr=1-8&keywords=Diana+Ross
I've wondered about 'A Lifetime ...' - thanks for your review and recommendation, Ms. Roberta, I'll read it now.

[Bluebrock]

I remember watching the Diana tribute on VH1, I actually enjoyed it from what I remember, I just recall hearing about a lot of difficulties with it, technical or otherwise.
I was with Diana at the taping of this and despite or perhaps in spite of the presence of Mariah, Destinys Child, Faith Hill and the lovely and much missed Donna Summer it was an experience i would not like to repeat in a hurry. The best i can say about it is that i got to know Donna Summer and i found her to be a lovely, friendly lady whom i kept in touch with until her sad passing.

[Roberta75]

I've wondered about 'A Lifetime ...' - thanks for your review and recommendation, Ms. Roberta, I'll read it now.

You wil enjoy it dear PeaceNHarmony. Mr Adrahtas writes a real loving and fair book about Miss Ross and its real well researched. Enjoy.

yours, with every good wish.

Roberta

[Roberta75]

Thank you for the recommendation Roberta, imdidnt know about this book and have just ordered it. Looking forward to a good read.

My pleasure dear master blaster. I think you will enjoy this book. Mr Adrahtas doesn't wallow in the dirt but gives good inside and great facts.

Fondly,

Roberta

[Circa 1824]

RTL was one of the greatest fiascos in music history because it dethroned a reigning superstar.

Ross picked 2 relatively unknown ladies to be part of Diana Ross and the Supremes. These 2 ladies were NEVER part of the group known as "Diana Ross and the Supremes." Ross thought the audience was too stupid to notice or care. When it was obvious very early on that it was not going to work out, she was relentless and defiant.

As a huge Ross fan, I was appalled at her Today Show and DIva's performances. The Today Show featured a desperate and confused Ross. The Diva's show featured a Ross that sounded terrible and looked worse. It was a nightmare. Sadly, very sadly, the Diva show had a huge viewing audience. Millions got to see Diana at her absolute worst. During the show, the camera showed Rhonda smiling and cheering this horrible performance. I thought, "Wow, no wonder Ross has no clue because her children don't either."

[Roberta75]

RTL was one of the greatest fiascos in music history. Ross picked 2 relatively unknown ladies to be part of Diana Ross and the Supremes. These 2 ladies were NEVER part of the group known as "Diana Ross and the Supremes." Ross thought the audience was too stupid to notice or care.

As a huge Ross fan, I was appalled at her Today Show and DIva's performances. The Today Show featured a desperate and confused Ross. The Diva's show featured a Ross that sounded terrible and looked worse. It was a nightmare. Sadly, very sadly, the Diva show had a huge viewing audience. Millions got to see Diana at her absolute worst. During the show, the camera showed Rhonda smiling and cheering this horrible performance. I thought, "Wow, no wonder Ross has no clue because her children don't either."

Miss Ross was going through some real difficult times dear Circa so we should be kinder and nicer. Theres more than enough blame to go around for RTL and it doesnt all fall on Miss Ross. Thankfully all the ladies involve have moved on but sadly a few fans havent and take RLT real personally. If you want a balanced take on RTL I would suggest getting and reading A Lifetime To Get Here by Tom Adrahtas. Its the best book and real rich in history. Everyone I know thats read it it loves it and its real well researched. Heres a link to order it. Fondly, Roberta

https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Get-...rds=Diana+Ross [[https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Get-Here-American-Dreamgirl/dp/1425971393/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1490658930&sr=1-8&keywords=Diana+Ross)

[imakicola]

It's clear Mary and Cindy were offered the part first and when mary tried to make a stand about payment distribution the promoters thought "fine we'll replace you with someone who won't demand as much $$$" and that's how it went down. All about $$$ for the promoters. Especially if they were to invite all seven ladies. But then they charged so much for this strange grouping. Three ladies, *EACH* and EVERY ONE of which has ***NEVER*** been in the group with EITHER of the other two at the same time for even a MOMENT. obviously not counting FLOS which is NOT the original group.

[Jaap]

RTL is really water under the bridge--everything has been said and I think the final conclusion can be that it is a shame for everybody how it worked out, no winners in this story and no use to keep blaming one or the other. I had tickets for the MPLS show, which got cancelled; that was 17 years ago and I did get over it. For me, the best thing of RTL was that Diana Ross started to include full versions of Supremes songs in her show, and when she came to the Netherlands in 2004, she performed many of them I had never heard live on stage before. Quite wonderful!

[PeaceNHarmony]

Miss Ross was going through some real difficult times dear Circa so we should be kinder and nicer. Theres more than enough blame to go around for RTL and it doesnt all fall on Miss Ross. Thankfully all the ladies involve have moved on but sadly a few fans havent and take RLT real personally. If you want a balanced take on RTL I would suggest getting and reading A Lifetime To Get Here by Tom Adrahtas. Its the best book and real rich in history. Everyone I know thats read it it loves it and its real well researched. Heres a link to order it. Fondly, Roberta

https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Get-...rds=Diana+Ross [[https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Get-Here-American-Dreamgirl/dp/1425971393/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1490658930&sr=1-8&keywords=Diana+Ross)
Amen, Ms. Roberta! And the fact remains that the shows were excellent, even if the other two ladies were not who we wished for.

[blackguy69]

I read that book a few years back, I wouldn't quite call it a fair account. It kinda blames every one else and tries to say Diana Ross did nothing wrong.

[Roberta75]

Amen, Ms. Roberta! And the fact remains that the shows were excellent, even if the other two ladies were not who we wished for.

But its all over now dear and Miss Wilson and Miss Ross and Miss Payne and Miss Lawrence all doing fine. Please everyone include Miss Birdsong in your daily prayers.

Roberta

[jobucats]

I was able to see the RTL show here in Atlanta. Although I had been a big fan since the 60s collecting recordings/memorabilia, this was my first opportunity to see Diana, let alone with this lineup of Supremes. Overall, I thought the performance was very good. The opening, using the Dr. King video, was outstanding. If there was any particular aspect I didn't like, it would have been the use of additional background singers backing up Scherrie and Lynda. In my humble opinion, I felt that using said singers made the production look and sound too "over the top." It reminded me of the 70s Jimmy Webb album in that there was a soloist backed by the Mormon Tabernacle choir [[another forum member used that comparison in another thread).

[Bluebrock]

Can we please consign this story to History where it belongs? Everytime this subject is raised it quickly descends into all out war. No-one involved in this fiasco comes out of it well and i think we should all move forward and discuss something more positive.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Can we please consign this story to History where it belongs? Everytime this subject is raised it quickly descends into all out war. No-one involved in this fiasco comes out of it well and i think we should all move forward and discuss something more positive.
Agreed - - -

[Roberta75]

Can we please consign this story to History where it belongs? Everytime this subject is raised it quickly descends into all out war. No-one involved in this fiasco comes out of it well and i think we should all move forward and discuss something more positive.

Amen my dear Bluebrock. Amen.

[jobucats]

Bluebrock, per your request, I deleted my 2nd paragraph regarding the RTL tour although I feel that I was not trying to escalate any turmoil when reflecting back to the tour's complications and setbacks. I rarely give my opinions on this forum, as I know there are only a few forum participants who are allowed to do so. When I do state what is on my mind, I always clearly insert "in my opinion" as opposed to the dogmatic style I see in other folk's comments. My question, respectfully, if discussing the RTL tour should be "consigned to History," what topics are fair game for reminiscing? BTW, I do appreciate and look forward to your many insights. :)

[imakicola]

I read that book a few years back, I wouldn't quite call it a fair account. It kinda blames every one else and tries to say Diana Ross did nothing wrong.

Agreed. Definitely very biased. And you can find extensive research and back up for all sides really so at the end of the day it is futile. But no that was not even close to a fair account. Maybe only fair to one person.

[Roberta75]

Agreed. Definitely very biased. And you can find extensive research and back up for all sides really so at the end of the day it is futile. But no that was not even close to a fair account. Maybe only fair to one person.

I think "A Lifetime to Get Here" was very well written and real balanced imo. Also Tom had some real rare photos in the book that made it more than worth the $11.

https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Get-Here-American-Dreamgirl/dp/1425971393/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490726509&sr=8-1&keywords=A+Lifetime+to+Get+Here+Tom+Adrahtas

[RanRan79]

Bluebrock, per your request, I deleted my 2nd paragraph regarding the RTL tour although I feel that I was not trying to escalate any turmoil when reflecting back to the tour's complications and setbacks. I rarely give my opinions on this forum, as I know there are only a few forum participants who are allowed to do so. When I do state what is on my mind, I always clearly insert "in my opinion" as opposed to the dogmatic style I see in other folk's comments. My question, respectfully, if discussing the RTL tour should be "consigned to History," what topics are fair game for reminiscing? BTW, I do appreciate and look forward to your many insights. :)

Jobucats, I know you were asking Bluebrock, and I'm not answering for him, just going to give my opinion if I may. I know where Bluebrock and others are coming from, but I can't quite agree that we should leave it as history and move on. I'm too much of a history lover [[be it music or otherwise) to get behind such a suggestion. However, I think it's important to tread carefully with certain subjects lest they get out of control. No censorship, but be aware of one's surroundings. I've been coming to this forum for years before signing up and FINALLY participating, and one of the most polarizing thread subjects is RTL. I think the thread started off well. It was a discussion about the show itself and I don't see anything wrong with doing that. It's a part of Supremes/Diana Ross/Motown history and we should be able to talk about it and remember it in some way. However, RTL allows the intro of trolls, like someone above who I have noticed seems to make it a point to post that which he/she hopes will bait people into something negative [[and somehow most always succeeds). So sometimes it feels like it's just better to leave the topic alone lest we have another war on our hands. But again, that isn't fair to the subject at all, especially when so many have said they actually enjoyed the shows that did take place. I'd like to see more discussion on the music of RTL than the backstage business or personal issues that pretty much no one in this forum was privy to in first person. But it's also important to remember that if there's a subject that one isn't necessarily interested in, they have the option to refrain from clicking. Just my two cents.

[jobucats]

Jobucats, I know you were asking Bluebrock, and I'm not answering for him, just going to give my opinion if I may. I know where Bluebrock and others are coming from, but I can't quite agree that we should leave it as history and move on. I'm too much of a history lover [[be it music or otherwise) to get behind such a suggestion. However, I think it's important to tread carefully with certain subjects lest they get out of control. No censorship, but be aware of one's surroundings. I've been coming to this forum for years before signing up and FINALLY participating, and one of the most polarizing thread subjects is RTL. I think the thread started off well. It was a discussion about the show itself and I don't see anything wrong with doing that. It's a part of Supremes/Diana Ross/Motown history and we should be able to talk about it and remember it in some way. However, RTL allows the intro of trolls, like someone above who I have noticed seems to make it a point to post that which he/she hopes will bait people into something negative [[and somehow most always succeeds). So sometimes it feels like it's just better to leave the topic alone lest we have another war on our hands. But again, that isn't fair to the subject at all, especially when so many have said they actually enjoyed the shows that did take place. I'd like to see more discussion on the music of RTL than the backstage business or personal issues that pretty much no one in this forum was privy to in first person. But it's also important to remember that if there's a subject that one isn't necessarily interested in, they have the option to refrain from clicking. Just my two cents.

Nice perspective, RanRan79. Thank you.

[luke]

No one is in charge here but Ralph. People should respectfully discuss what they want . Free press.

[daviddh]

Roberta thanks for the tip on the book ,off to order.

[RanRan79]

No one is in charge here but Ralph. People should respectfully discuss what they want . Free press.

I second that emotion.;)

[Bluebrock]

Bluebrock, per your request, I deleted my 2nd paragraph regarding the RTL tour although I feel that I was not trying to escalate any turmoil when reflecting back to the tour's complications and setbacks. I rarely give my opinions on this forum, as I know there are only a few forum participants who are allowed to do so. When I do state what is on my mind, I always clearly insert "in my opinion" as opposed to the dogmatic style I see in other folk's comments. My question, respectfully, if discussing the RTL tour should be "consigned to History," what topics are fair game for reminiscing? BTW, I do appreciate and look forward to your many insights. :)
Hey jobucats i wasn't accusing you of trying to stir up trouble, but when this subject has been discussed previously it has quickly descended into a mass brawl with certain members claiming they know the inside story, and then a member with opposite views quickly retaliating with their own "inside" accounts of what happened. With some people it is all black or white with no room for conceding that maybe, just maybe there were faults on both sides. Obviously RTL is fair game for discussion so long as it isn't brought down to the gutter level again. I guess Ralph will keep a close eye on proceedings and hopefully ensure that does not happen again. Thank you for your kind words by the way.They are very much appreciated.

[daviddh]

from what I saw of the show ,per my dvd version, it was great. the customes were typical lavish supremes style and I thought it was a great sounding show,
my personal issues with the actual show were some classics were missing Nothing But Heartaches , In and Out Of Love. but I did hear that they performed both on another night while on my copy they performed Forever Came Today and Diana had a longer solo.
I did think the inclusion of Money was strange instead of a supremes classic as I would have preferred one of Dianas newest singles or a supremes fav instead...Ask Any Girl or Going Down For The Third Time.
Lynda sang Up The Ladder To The Roof while Scherrie delivered Stoned Love.both were great. I thought the dancers were a waist of time.imo. not sure why there were additional back up singers?
if interested set list..lol from my memory was
Reflections
My World is Empty
Come See About Me
Love Is An Itching
Back In mY Arms
Where Dir Our Love Go
Baby Love
Stop !
You Cant Hurry Love
Love Child
I Hear A Symphony
Love Is Here
The Happening
You Keep Me Hangin ON
Forever Came Today
Somewhere
Up The ladder To The Roof....
Stoned Love
Reach Out Ill Be There
I will survive...not exact but failry close.

[marybrewster]

RTL is really water under the bridge--everything has been said and I think the final conclusion can be that it is a shame for everybody how it worked out, no winners in this story and no use to keep blaming one or the other. I had tickets for the MPLS show, which got cancelled; that was 17 years ago and I did get over it. For me, the best thing of RTL was that Diana Ross started to include full versions of Supremes songs in her show, and when she came to the Netherlands in 2004, she performed many of them I had never heard live on stage before. Quite wonderful!

Japp; that would have been the show that I would have went to. If memory serves me right, it was to be that the Target Center? I remember thinking that the venue seemed pretty ambitious. I ended up passing on tickets, for they were a bit out of my pocketbook range. Were they around $250.00? All these years later, I'd probably give a little more consideration. I had a friend that ordered tickets and I think he got a free copy of a Diana VHS with his order. Did you get any goodies with your tickets?

I watched the Opening Night special on VH1 and thought it was pretty fabulous. Diana was stunning as usual; Scherrie and Lynd looked equally fabulous.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Japp; that would have been the show that I would have went to. If memory serves me right, it was to be that the Target Center? I remember thinking that the venue seemed pretty ambitious. I ended up passing on tickets, for they were a bit out of my pocketbook range. Were they around $250.00? All these years later, I'd probably give a little more consideration. I had a friend that ordered tickets and I think he got a free copy of a Diana VHS with his order. Did you get any goodies with your tickets?

I watched the Opening Night special on VH1 and thought it was pretty fabulous. Diana was stunning as usual; Scherrie and Lynd looked equally fabulous.
Yes, lost in the tide is the fact that the ladies looked and sounded great; it was a wonderful experience for those of us who were able to see a performance!

[captainjames]

I saw Diana, Scherrie and Lynda in Return to Love and they were FABULOUS !!!
I tossed aside all and any negative thoughts and felt this was going to be a once in a life time performance of these three women sharing the stage. I was right !!!! They were beautiful, and Supreme on stage. I can't remember how I actually got a copy of the show on VHS but I did transfer to DVD. Also got a copy of the MSG show and have that on DVD as well. Strange that I can not remember how I got them but that was about seventeen years ago.

[bradsupremes]

How many shows were taped? I've seen videos of the MSG show on YouTube and someone did post a video of them performing "Forever Came Today" from the Columbus show on YouTube [[it's been removed) but that's all I've seen. I heard they did "In And Out Of Love" in Detroit but haven't seen footage of it. Which shows were professionally taped?

[reese]

How many shows were taped? I've seen videos of the MSG show on YouTube and someone did post a video of them performing "Forever Came Today" from the Columbus show on YouTube [[it's been removed) but that's all I've seen. I heard they did "In And Out Of Love" in Detroit but haven't seen footage of it. Which shows were professionally taped?

To my knowledge, three shows were taped. Or at least I saw three offered for sale. The first [[Philly), the last [[NYC), and the third one in a city that I can't recall. It might be Columbus, as I know they did FOREVER CAME TODAY on it. These were bootlegs, although the NYC show was well done.

I'm not sure how many of the shows were professionally taped, other than the first one. It was edited and 30 minutes [[I think) aired two nights later on OPENING NIGHT LIVE on VH1.

[masterblaster]

Sorry for opening old wounds, it really wasn't intended. The only sadness for me was the RTL concert never made it to the UK, I think it would have been well received, Diana always performed to sell out venues over here.
From the footage I've seen, I have been very impressed with the performance of all three 'Supremes', Scherrie and Lynda look happy and as stated earlier, it's great to hear full length versions of the hits, particularly backed by a full orchestra.

[RanRan79]

I never knew they did "Nothing But Heartaches" and "Forever Came Today"! I'll keep a look out on Youtube in case someone posts again.

[daviddh]

I think if they got rid of the dancers, the xtra backup singers it may have done better. I think it added to the cost and really the dancers were only on a few moments. maybe save that for Vegas.
also I think that instead of the Ross solo , I would have preferred her singing the new songs from Everyday Is A New Day. overall it looked great. I think the only professional version was from VH1 but it was edited to 30 minutes. hmmmm

[Nitro2015]

I was with Diana at the taping of this and despite or perhaps in spite of the presence of Mariah, Destinys Child, Faith Hill and the lovely and much missed Donna Summer it was an experience i would not like to repeat in a hurry. The best i can say about it is that i got to know Donna Summer and i found her to be a lovely, friendly lady whom i kept in touch with until her sad passing.

Bluebrock, you say this because of the technical difficulties?

Personally, I did like to watch the show Divas on television. Diana was a little bit unfocused and her voice was hoarse, but she still did give a good performance.

Loved her play-duet with Mariah.

And the divas seemed to get along really well.

[Bluebrock]

Bluebrock, you say this because of the technical difficulties?

Personally, I did like to watch the show Divas on television. Diana was a little bit unfocused and her voice was hoarse, but she still did give a good performance.

Loved her play-duet with Mariah.

And the divas seemed to get along really well.
It is true to say that Mariah is a big fan of Diana and to her credit she behaved as well as you could possibly expect Mariah Carey to behave if you catch my drift!!
Diana in turn is a big fan of Mariah and they did work quite well together. Better than Beyonce who was already displaying her diva credentials at that early stage in her career. Faith Hill was nice enough, and Donna Summer was an absolute sweetheart, but the main problem here was Diana herself who was not in a good place and should not have gone through with it. The whole experience was an absolute nightmare and i could not wait to fly back to the UK.

[luke]

I read Donna refused to do a song..maybe Stop in name of Love ..because of lack of rehersal.

[dickiemint]

Love your memories Bluebrock there was a trip from the UK to the New York show which I wish I had booked on to now just didn't have the opportunity back then

I would love to know if there was tour programs or other merchandise they should try to sell any unsold items on e bay to recoup some of the money lost !!

[reese]

Love your memories Bluebrock there was a trip from the UK to the New York show which I wish I had booked on to now just didn't have the opportunity back then

I would love to know if there was tour programs or other merchandise they should try to sell any unsold items on e bay to recoup some of the money lost !!

I was able to get a RTL program from eBay. I have a t-shirt as well, with the familiar pink-tinted shots of D,S, and L. But I don't remember where I bought the t-shirt from.

[jobucats]

It is true to say that Mariah is a big fan of Diana and to her credit she behaved as well as you could possibly expect Mariah Carey to behave if you catch my drift!!
Diana in turn is a big fan of Mariah and they did work quite well together. Better than Beyonce who was already displaying her diva credentials at that early stage in her career. Faith Hill was nice enough, and Donna Summer was an absolute sweetheart, but the main problem here was Diana herself who was not in a good place and should not have gone through with it. The whole experience was an absolute nightmare and i could not wait to fly back to the UK.

Also, I do recall [[and have a copy) VH1 produced a followup to the Diva performance which showcased the many things that went wrong that evening. My opinion is that it appeared to be quite a struggle for everyone to pull everything together. Also, I read that Donna Summer, who I love and loved her contribution to the show, did not feel comfortable being on stage in the same costumes as Diana and Mariah.

[luke]

Hasn't anyone ever just told this woman[[DR) to just cut the crap? One of the Motown books also indicated she was a nightmare at the divas taping.

[RanRan79]

Hasn't anyone ever just told this woman[[DR) to just cut the crap? One of the Motown books also indicated she was a nightmare at the divas taping.

Of course they have. And they were probably on the unemployment line the next day. Lol All joking aside, I'm always weary of stories about women in the business being difficult. The sexism and double standards is strong, not only within the business but even among the fans. I wonder what the specific allegations were in regards to this show as opposed to vague statements of "difficult".

[reese]

I'm not privy to any backstage info. But from VH1 said on a later behind the scenes program on their DIVAS series, one of the main problems with Diana's episode was that Diana insisted on a specific sound system that caused difficulties throughout the taping. She also disagreed with the original publicity campaign [[the superhero concept, which even I think looked cheezy).

But I also remember one of the VH1 officials saying something like despite the problems, Diana's DIVAS LIVE was the highest-rated episode in the series.

[jobeterob]

I'm not privy to any backstage info. But from VH1 said on a later behind the scenes program on their DIVAS series, one of the main problems with Diana's episode was that Diana insisted on a specific sound system that caused difficulties throughout the taping. She also disagreed with the original publicity campaign [[the superhero concept, which even I think looked cheezy).

But I also remember one of the VH1 officials saying something like despite the problems, Diana's DIVAS LIVE was the highest-rated episode in the series.

All she does is win!

[jobeterob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_PdJ1B1nRA

[Bluebrock]

I read Donna refused to do a song..maybe Stop in name of Love ..because of lack of rehersal.
What you read is correct. Donna was given insufficient time to rehearse as indeed was Mariah and whilst this caused some initial difficulty the situation was quickly diffused and she and Diana met up the next day and cleared the air. To be fair to Mariah she was a real trooper on this particular occasion.

[marv2]

Of course they have. And they were probably on the unemployment line the next day. Lol All joking aside, I'm always weary of stories about women in the business being difficult. The sexism and double standards is strong, not only within the business but even among the fans. I wonder what the specific allegations were in regards to this show as opposed to vague statements of "difficult".

Ok, ok you never hear about someone like Smokey being a problem for others he has to work with. That is just an example . There is no double standard going on when it comes to Diana Ross. she has a problem with people in general and does not know how to effectively work with others.

[marv2]

All she does is win!

Yeah I guess so. That's why she hasn't had a hit over 3 and a half decades. LOL!!!!!

[RanRan79]

I'm not privy to any backstage info. But from VH1 said on a later behind the scenes program on their DIVAS series, one of the main problems with Diana's episode was that Diana insisted on a specific sound system that caused difficulties throughout the taping. She also disagreed with the original publicity campaign [[the superhero concept, which even I think looked cheezy).

But I also remember one of the VH1 officials saying something like despite the problems, Diana's DIVAS LIVE was the highest-rated episode in the series.

I'm glad the episode was a success. But why she would insist on using a sound system that created a problem defies logic. One would think a singer of her caliber would want things to go as smooth as possible. In the end I guess it didn't matter. Did anyone watch the show and talk about how the sound system sucked? Lol

[RanRan79]

Ok, ok you never hear about someone like Smokey being a problem for others he has to work with. That is just an example . There is no double standard going on when it comes to Diana Ross. she has a problem with people in general and does not know how to effectively work with others.

She's had a nearly 60 year career in the music business. You have to effectively work with others to work that long in any industry, period. No, I have not heard Smokey Robinson is a problem to work with, but I have heard stories about James Brown, Marvin Gaye, even Luther Vandross and others, and they are usually looked at as artists being particular about their art and the way things are done. With women who often do the same [[in and outside of the music business) they are instead called choice names and given labels like "difficult". Even a man being called "difficult" often has a different connotation than when it is applied to women. The fact that women like Diana Ross and Aretha Franklin, who is also often labeled "difficult", are also Black adds to the issue. A statement was made that Diana was being difficult during the taping of this show. The examples given so far leave me with a "maybe she was, maybe she wasn't" impression. I do not have enough information on the taping to form that kind of an opinion.

[marv2]

She's had a nearly 60 year career in the music business. You have to effectively work with others to work that long in any industry, period. No, I have not heard Smokey Robinson is a problem to work with, but I have heard stories about James Brown, Marvin Gaye, even Luther Vandross and others, and they are usually looked at as artists being particular about their art and the way things are done. With women who often do the same [[in and outside of the music business) they are instead called choice names and given labels like "difficult". Even a man being called "difficult" often has a different connotation than when it is applied to women. The fact that women like Diana Ross and Aretha Franklin, who is also often labeled "difficult", are also Black adds to the issue. A statement was made that Diana was being difficult during the taping of this show. The examples given so far leave me with a "maybe she was, maybe she wasn't" impression. I do not have enough information on the taping to form that kind of an opinion.

She's been in the business a long time, does not mean it's been a good time for those having to deal with her. For every "Miss Ross", I can name 40 women in the business that are very nice, pleasant and no bad reputation. I am not making this up just because I do not care for Miss Ross. I am just stating fact. I believe she's even talked about her behavior towards others. You do not have to be an asshole to be professional I promise. I am done with this subject for now.

[luke]

Well said Marv. This has nothing to do with sexism, everything to do with respect and professionalism. Did you ever listen to Christian Bale's temper tantrum on you tube? That's the kind of thing being discussed. Unprofessionalism and disrespect regardless of gender or perfectionism.

[RanRan79]

She's been in the business a long time, does not mean it's been a good time for those having to deal with her. For every "Miss Ross", I can name 40 women in the business that are very nice, pleasant and no bad reputation. I am not making this up just because I do not care for Miss Ross. I am just stating fact. I believe she's even talked about her behavior towards others. You do not have to be an asshole to be professional I promise. I am done with this subject for now.

I'm sure the woman has her funky moments. She's human just like everyone else. And yes there are some people who are more pleasant than others. But who are all these people saying she's a pain to work with? The producers she's gone into the studio say what? The musicians she has toured with say what? The background singers she's employed say what? The actors and actresses she's been on set with say what? The record execs say...well never mind what they say. Lol Where are all these people that say they wanted to kill themselves [[or Diana Ross) after working with her? Are we taking a few anecdotal stories and running with them or is this woman really such a pain? I'm not convinced.

[RanRan79]

Well said Marv. This has nothing to do with sexism, everything to do with respect and professionalism. Did you ever listen to Christian Bale's temper tantrum on you tube? That's the kind of thing being discussed. Unprofessionalism and disrespect regardless of gender or perfectionism.

Except no one provided an example of Diana Ross being unequivocally unprofessional or disrespectful during the taping of the VH1 show, which was the topic that proceeded the discussion about her being "difficult". My opinion regarding sexism as it relates to Black women in the industry still stands.

[TomatoTom123]

Yeah I guess so. That's why she hasn't had a hit over 3 and a half decades. LOL!!!!!

I don't think anyone from the '60s has a bona fide hit in the last 30 years? I don't know... I can't think of anyone. Smokey and Stevie haven't really since the mid/late '80s I don't believe. It must be so hard to keep making hits, competing with newer, younger, trendier acts, and having to take time away from family to do promotion, all at an older age, too.

[marv2]

I don't think anyone from the '60s has a bona fide hit in the last 30 years? I don't know... I can't think of anyone. Smokey and Stevie haven't really since the mid/late '80s I don't believe. It must be so hard to keep making hits, competing with newer, younger, trendier acts, and having to take time away from family to do promotion, all at an older age, too.

Well then that just proves that she is no better than any other artist still performing from the era when she first became famous!

[marv2]

Well said Marv. This has nothing to do with sexism, everything to do with respect and professionalism. Did you ever listen to Christian Bale's temper tantrum on you tube? That's the kind of thing being discussed. Unprofessionalism and disrespect regardless of gender or perfectionism.

Since you brought it up,
I just listened to it........Awful! He needs to have his ass kicked or something else. You can get another actor. That is not his company and those were not his slaves!

[TomatoTom123]

Well then that just proves that she is no better than any other artist still performing from the era when she first became famous!

Oh, yes, they are all legends! To still be performing and entertaining fans is just incredible at their ages. I do wish they could have decent-sized hits nowadays. I mean, take Stevie's latest single. I don't understand why a collaboration with a young act that's popular today [[Ariana Grande) on a song featured in a successful film [[Sing!) is a NON-CHARTER on both the Pop and R&B Charts of America. Sorry, Stevie, but I think this is absolutely fantastic and deserving of a hit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNMMN46uFCc&app=desktop

Please excuse my almost totally irrelevant post and embedded video. Hehe ;)

[Nitro2015]

It is true to say that Mariah is a big fan of Diana and to her credit she behaved as well as you could possibly expect Mariah Carey to behave if you catch my drift!!
Diana in turn is a big fan of Mariah and they did work quite well together. Better than Beyonce who was already displaying her diva credentials at that early stage in her career. Faith Hill was nice enough, and Donna Summer was an absolute sweetheart, but the main problem here was Diana herself who was not in a good place and should not have gone through with it. The whole experience was an absolute nightmare and i could not wait to fly back to the UK.

Thank you Bluebrock, I kinda understand what you're saying.

You could see in Diana's eyes that she was in a lot of emotional pain in those years. In the Divas show it was no different.

[marv2]

Except no one provided an example of Diana Ross being unequivocally unprofessional or disrespectful during the taping of the VH1 show, which was the topic that proceeded the discussion about her being "difficult". My opinion regarding sexism as it relates to Black women in the industry still stands.

A little bit of it seeped through when they were having issues with the sound system, she stopped the show and right in front audience she complained and said through clinched teeth..."this does not please me." It was her own sound system that she insisted VH-1 use. VH-1's storage/wareshouse offices butted up against the back my office at the time in NY. That has nothing to do with the story, I just thought it was interesting to mention. LOL!

[marv2]

Oh, yes, they are all legends! To still be performing and entertaining fans is just incredible at their ages. I do wish they could have decent-sized hits nowadays. I mean, take Stevie's latest single. I don't understand why a collaboration with a young act that's popular today [[Ariana Grande) on a song featured in a successful film [[Sing!) is a NON-CHARTER on both the Pop and R&B Charts of America. Sorry, Stevie, but I think this is absolutely fantastic and deserving of a hit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNMMN46uFCc&app=desktop

Please excuse my almost totally irrelevant post and embedded video. Hehe ;)

It was a non charter because most people did not get to hear it. They do not play that kind of music on commercial today. Also, the segment of the market that would be most likely to buy it, do not buy downloads and there are hardly and brick and mortar records left anywhere.

[RanRan79]

I don't think anyone from the '60s has a bona fide hit in the last 30 years? I don't know... I can't think of anyone. Smokey and Stevie haven't really since the mid/late '80s I don't believe. It must be so hard to keep making hits, competing with newer, younger, trendier acts, and having to take time away from family to do promotion, all at an older age, too.

You're mostly right Tom. Diana and her peers [[Black peers in particular) get little to no notice by "mainstream" audiences when it comes to hit singles in the last 30 years. R&B wise, I think Stevie's last major cut was the early 90s and Jungle Fever soundtrack. Diana was also in the top 10 with the duet she did with Al B Sure. Patti Labelle had a top 10 hit in 1994 and Aretha hit the top 10 in 1997/98 with "A Rose Is Still a Rose". Other than that, it's been mostly quiet from that crop of legends. I find it hard to believe that any of them are chasing hits at this point in their careers. I'm sure they would like to sale as many albums as possible, but chart hits are probably not on their radar.

[RanRan79]

Oh, yes, they are all legends! To still be performing and entertaining fans is just incredible at their ages. I do wish they could have decent-sized hits nowadays. I mean, take Stevie's latest single. I don't understand why a collaboration with a young act that's popular today [[Ariana Grande) on a song featured in a successful film [[Sing!) is a NON-CHARTER on both the Pop and R&B Charts of America. Sorry, Stevie, but I think this is absolutely fantastic and deserving of a hit:

Thanks for posting Tom because I had not heard this. I really like it. I wouldn't have chosen Ariana to do this song with him [[nothing against her, btw) but it came out real nice. It's up to date but still very Stevie, which I think is often one of the creative problems the legends have addressing: how to have an updated sound and still be true to themselves as artists. I think Stevie did very well here. Such a shame radio didn't pick it up.

[RanRan79]

VH-1's storage/wareshouse offices butted up against the back my office at the time in NY. That has nothing to do with the story, I just thought it was interesting to mention. LOL!

Oh Marv stop name dropping!:p

[TomatoTom123]

It was a non charter because most people did not get to hear it. They do not play that kind of music on commercial today. Also, the segment of the market that would be most likely to buy it, do not buy downloads and there are hardly and brick and mortar records left anywhere.

A shame Marv. However, I really think that this sounds modern and has commercial potential, and yet retains that Stevie magic. Oh well!

[TomatoTom123]

You're mostly right Tom. Diana and her peers [[Black peers in particular) get little to no notice by "mainstream" audiences when it comes to hit singles in the last 30 years. R&B wise, I think Stevie's last major cut was the early 90s and Jungle Fever soundtrack. Diana was also in the top 10 with the duet she did with Al B Sure. Patti Labelle had a top 10 hit in 1994 and Aretha hit the top 10 in 1997/98 with "A Rose Is Still a Rose". Other than that, it's been mostly quiet from that crop of legends. I find it hard to believe that any of them are chasing hits at this point in their careers. I'm sure they would like to sale as many albums as possible, but chart hits are probably not on their radar.

Yea, that is true, RanRan. Also, Diana was having Top Ten hits in the UK well into the 1990s I believe. Stevie even had a British hit [[Top 40!) with 2005's "So What The Fuss". But, at the end of the day, these legends have already had hit after hit after hit, and made so much incredible music, it's just amazing. They don't really need to anymore if they don't want to! They have earned their retirement!!! :)

[TomatoTom123]

Thanks for posting Tom because I had not heard this. I really like it. I wouldn't have chosen Ariana to do this song with him [[nothing against her, btw) but it came out real nice. It's up to date but still very Stevie, which I think is often one of the creative problems the legends have addressing: how to have an updated sound and still be true to themselves as artists. I think Stevie did very well here. Such a shame radio didn't pick it up.

You're welcome RanRan! Isn't it just fantastic!? I love it. And, yes, I'm not really a fan of Ariana but she is really great here and she works really well with Stevie. Maybe it's the high female singer-Stevie contrast like with Wonderlove and Syreeta! [[Oh my, yes, that's it, Syreeta, definitely!!!)

And, yes, RanRan, I think the song has both commercial potential and maintains a retro feel. It has that uplifting-but-subtly-funky Stevie magic!!! It's really great. A real shame that it wasn't a hit. Oh well.... :p

[marv2]

A shame Marv. However, I really think that this sounds modern and has commercial potential, and yet retains that Stevie magic. Oh well!

People just do not get the opportunity to hear it or buy it. Sad,but it is the way things are now. I've seen Youtube videos of young artist that have something like 350,000,000 views which is incredible but it does not correlate to the same amount in music sales.
If you know where to look and listen, you can hear all of the latest releases by an artist.......without ever paying for it.

[imakicola]

A little bit of it seeped through when they were having issues with the sound system, she stopped the show and right in front audience she complained and said through clinched teeth..."this does not please me." It was her own sound system that she insisted VH-1 use. VH-1's storage/wareshouse offices butted up against the back my office at the time in NY. That has nothing to do with the story, I just thought it was interesting to mention. LOL!

At her concert here in calgary last year she found the spotlight too hot and stopped the show to complain about it. And at the end she said "I'll be back calgary! But only if you change your lighting guy." How rude. Publically humiliating. And this concert was at a casino. And she demands this poor guy be fired for her to return. Didn't like that.

[imakicola]

You're mostly right Tom. Diana and her peers [[Black peers in particular) get little to no notice by "mainstream" audiences when it comes to hit singles in the last 30 years. R&B wise, I think Stevie's last major cut was the early 90s and Jungle Fever soundtrack. Diana was also in the top 10 with the duet she did with Al B Sure. Patti Labelle had a top 10 hit in 1994 and Aretha hit the top 10 in 1997/98 with "A Rose Is Still a Rose". Other than that, it's been mostly quiet from that crop of legends. I find it hard to believe that any of them are chasing hits at this point in their careers. I'm sure they would like to sale as many albums as possible, but chart hits are probably not on their radar.

EVEn younger, white Madonna, who is specifically known not for having huge hits but having sustained ok success on the charts no matter what she puts out or at what age, has struggled to even crack the charts at all lately. And Jennifer Lopez and even Britney Spears are now older artists that people's parents listened to. Everyone gets older and the public starts to lose interest which is normal I guess.

[RanRan79]

You're welcome RanRan! Isn't it just fantastic!? I love it. And, yes, I'm not really a fan of Ariana but she is really great here and she works really well with Stevie. Maybe it's the high female singer-Stevie contrast like with Wonderlove and Syreeta! [[Oh my, yes, that's it, Syreeta, definitely!!!)

And, yes, RanRan, I think the song has both commercial potential and maintains a retro feel. It has that uplifting-but-subtly-funky Stevie magic!!! It's really great. A real shame that it wasn't a hit. Oh well.... :p

Stevie loves those high voices and knows how to use them. Such a shame he didn't get to do a full album with Jean Terrell.

[RanRan79]

At her concert here in calgary last year she found the spotlight too hot and stopped the show to complain about it. And at the end she said "I'll be back calgary! But only if you change your lighting guy." How rude. Publically humiliating. And this concert was at a casino. And she demands this poor guy be fired for her to return. Didn't like that.

You would have really hit the roof if you had been at the Queen Aretha show where she threatened to meet a member of the house crew in the parking lot if he didn't get it together! LOL I don't have a problem with artists wanting to be comfortable on stage. I know how I am when I get hot. Other than her complaint, how was the show?

[imakicola]

It was a really good show!

And I get wanting to be comfortable. But that comment wasn't even a tiny bit classy or professional. It put a dark cloud over the rest of her performance. Seriously, be an adult! I'm literally paying for this performance...have a good attitude about it and suck it up! Without your fans, or your crew or your venues, you wouldn't be making any money.

[RanRan79]

It was a really good show!

And I get wanting to be comfortable. But that comment wasn't even a tiny bit classy or professional. It put a dark cloud over the rest of her performance. Seriously, be an adult! I'm literally paying for this performance...have a good attitude about it and suck it up! Without your fans, or your crew or your venues, you wouldn't be making any money.

Yes, I agree.

[marv2]

At her concert here in calgary last year she found the spotlight too hot and stopped the show to complain about it. And at the end she said "I'll be back calgary! But only if you change your lighting guy." How rude. Publically humiliating. And this concert was at a casino. And she demands this poor guy be fired for her to return. Didn't like that.

She told people in San Diego last year at an outdoors concert to stop eating their food because they do not do that in places like Vegas when an artist is performing! She asked them "didn't you guys eat before coming here?" The people continued to eat their food that was being sold at the venue and she eventually went back singing.

[marv2]

At her concert here in calgary last year she found the spotlight too hot and stopped the show to complain about it. And at the end she said "I'll be back calgary! But only if you change your lighting guy." How rude. Publically humiliating. And this concert was at a casino. And she demands this poor guy be fired for her to return. Didn't like that.

She had a flower delivery girl fired in Australia for speaking to her as she delivered flowers to her in her dressing room before a show.

[TomatoTom123]

Stevie loves those high voices and knows how to use them. Such a shame he didn't get to do a full album with Jean Terrell.

Oh, RanRan, don't even get me started on how much I love "Bad Weather" and how much I wish Stevie hadn't produced a whole album on The Supremes!!!! :)

[TomatoTom123]

She had a flower delivery girl fired in Australia for speaking to her as she delivered flowers to her in her dressing room before a show.

Marv, how do you know this stuff?? :)

[marv2]

Marv, how do you know this stuff?? :)

A lot of these current events were on Youtube video or shared from news reporting agencies.

[Roberta75]

A lot of these current events were on Youtube video or shared from news reporting agencies.

How come you never provide links to Diane geting the flower lady fired or that made up story that Diane lost all her money to Bernie Madof which no proof exists.

[imakicola]

She told people in San Diego last year at an outdoors concert to stop eating their food because they do not do that in places like Vegas when an artist is performing! She asked them "didn't you guys eat before coming here?" The people continued to eat their food that was being sold at the venue and eventually went back singing.

Well I can see why eating during a performance can be seen as rude.

Still. I paid money to see a legend. To see a professional. The show was entertaining, but I was cheated out of what I thought was a reasonable expectation...to see a professional. She has been performing for decades...she knows better. I would expect better even from an Ariadna grande or any other young teen idol. To have more class than...Diana Ross. sure Diana is classy in many other ways. She doesn't reveal lots of skin, she doesn't swear. But this isn't one of them apparently. And she has nobody to blame for people having those feelings, but herself.

Honestly Diana. You are the queen. Royalty doesn't behave this way. Grow up.

[mpn1jco]

I'm sure the woman has her funky moments. She's human just like everyone else. And yes there are some people who are more pleasant than others. But who are all these people saying she's a pain to work with? The producers she's gone into the studio say what? The musicians she has toured with say what? The background singers she's employed say what? The actors and actresses she's been on set with say what? The record execs say...well never mind what they say. Lol Where are all these people that say they wanted to kill themselves [[or Diana Ross) after working with her? Are we taking a few anecdotal stories and running with them or is this woman really such a pain? I'm not convinced.

Diana Ross: A Biography

May 1, 2007

by J. Randy Taraborrelli





Call Her Miss Ross: The Unauthorized Biography of Diana Ross

Dec 27, 1988

by J. Randy Taraborrelli



The Lost Supreme: The Life of Dreamgirl Florence Ballard

Apr 1, 2008

by Peter Benjaminson





Dreamgirl: My Life As a Supreme

Oct 1986

by Mary Wilson





The Supremes: A Saga of Motown Dreams, Success, and Betrayal

Jun 30, 2009

by Mark Ribowsky





Dreamgirl and Supreme Faith: My Life as a Supreme

Jan 11, 2000

by Mary





Motown: Music, Money, Sex, and Power

Oct 11, 2005

by Gerald Posner





Where Did Our Love Go?: The Rise and Fall of the Motown Sound [[Music in American Life)

Oct 8, 2007

by Nelson George and Quincy Jones





Standing in the Shadows of Motown: The Life and Music of Legendary Bassist James Jamerson

May 1, 1989

by Dr. Licks and James Jamerson





Motown's First A & R Man Presents The A & R Man

Apr 29, 2015

by William Mickey Stevenson and Ashley Stevenson





All That Glittered: My Life With the Supremes by Tony Turner [[2000-06-01) Paperback – 1890

by Tony Turner [[Author)





Deliver Us from Temptation Hardcover – November, 1992

by

Tony Turner [[Author), Barbara Aria [[Author)





Forever Faithful! A Study of Florence Ballard and the Supremes Paperback – February 1, 1999

by

Randall Wilson [[Author), Thomas Ingrassia [[Author), Linda Champion [[Author)



Berry, Me, and Motown: The Untold Story Hardcover – August, 1990

by Raynoma Gordy Singleton [[

[mpn1jco]

How come you never provide links to Diane geting the flower lady fired or that made up story that Diane lost all her money to Bernie Madof which no proof exists.

I find it interesting that you, of all people, are seeking documented proof of anything DEAR

[mpn1jco]

Diana Ross has not presented a case for libel or slander for any of the books. The books are well researched with 1,000s of direct witnesses contributing. These books would be extremely damaging to any performer's reputation, yet Diana Ross took no legal action to protect her image and reputation. It should also be noted, they all were published while she was alive and able to defend herself against the irreparable harm these books have done to her career. For example, all of the books about Whitney Houston were published after her death when she could not defend herself.

There are more 'tell all' books about Diana Ross' behavior than any performer I can think of. I can double the list of books if this is not sufficient. The preponderance of published evidence is too much to dismiss the allegations of bad behavior as proliferation of rumors or exaggeration and cannot be ignored.

I am shocked that this is even an issue at this late date. The question should not be IF but WHY?

[Roberta75]

I find it interesting that you, of all people, are seeking documented proof of anything DEAR

I didnt ask you for anything dearest.

[RanRan79]

Oh, RanRan, don't even get me started on how much I love "Bad Weather" and how much I wish Stevie hadn't produced a whole album on The Supremes!!!! :)

Go ahead Tom and get started! Lol I love "Bad Weather" also. I don't know if Stevie doing an entire Supremes album would have propelled them back into the popular act category or even if it would have renewed interest in the group from Motown, but damn I bet that would have been a classic album. I certainly would hope that Stevie would give all three leads, but I bet Jean would have been his focus and I aint mad at it. Could you imagine Mary and Lynda [[probably Jean with them) doing Wonderlove type harmonies? What could have been...

[RanRan79]

I've read most, if not all, of the books on the list and the only thing I'm convinced of is that Diana Ross isn't perfect. And because I'm positive that no one's mouth is a prayer book [[as my grandmother used to say) I give "tell alls" the same credit I give to the internet: there may be some truth, there may be some lies, but in the end it can make for some very entertaining reading. "All That Glitters" is entertaining reading, but as Maxine Ballard told me in an email some years ago, from her perspective it was highly exaggerated. And from my perspective that's how a lot of these "stories" are: highly exaggerated to fit the myth. Isn't Tony Turner the one who intended to write a book about how Berry Gordy molested him? And I'm supposed to use his book as proof of something? RanRan79<-------Laughing hysterically!!! In the end though, who cares?

[TomatoTom123]

Go ahead Tom and get started! Lol I love "Bad Weather" also. I don't know if Stevie doing an entire Supremes album would have propelled them back into the popular act category or even if it would have renewed interest in the group from Motown, but damn I bet that would have been a classic album. I certainly would hope that Stevie would give all three leads, but I bet Jean would have been his focus and I aint mad at it. Could you imagine Mary and Lynda [[probably Jean with them) doing Wonderlove type harmonies? What could have been...

Ok, RanRan, I'm starting and you can't stop me!!!!

"Bad Weather" is really just an all-round fantastic song. Uplifting, funky, catchy, danceable [[proto-Disco even) and it has that undeniably brilliant Stevie magic!!! It has to be my all-time fave Jean performance too. And I just love that horn section and even the discotheque whistles!!

RanRan, I would like to think that a Stevie-produced Supremes album would have been as commercially successful as it would have been absolutely fantastic [[he was slap bang in the middle of his classic period after all!) but you never know. I mean, "Bad Weather" barely cracked the Hot 100, excuse my language but WTF? ;)

And, yea, I reckon Jean would get most of the leads. But I ain't complainin' neither... just look at "Bad Weather" and see how well the Stevie-Jean combination worked!!! And with Mary and Lynda on Wonderlove harmonies... ahh, what might have been... oh well! I'm just glad we got "Bad Weather" after all. :)

[mpn1jco]

I am not looking to pick a fight or question your integrity:o but can you provide the e-mail of Maxine Ballard as documented proof - you've fallen into the same trap you were taking a stance against.

Regarding Tony Turner, I wasn't there so I don't know the real truth, but no legal action was taken against him and people have been sued for millions for a lot less. I've have heard some things that raised a red flag and I am leaning towards Tony right now. I thought it was trash initially. Many people who have been subjected to sexual abuse do not come forward because they will treated as attention seeking liars. He was an underage boy hanging around adults in the entertainment industry and subject to predatory behavior. I applaud him for coming forth and maybe this will help other victims heal. I felt he was taking revenge against Mary Wilson for firing him and I questioned some of the Mary Wilson horror stories.

Meeting people who have worked with Ross is no big deal. I have hearsay, hearsay, hearsay throughout the years. I have heard basically the same thing over and over and I will leave it at that. I have never met her and have no desire to.

I will go with a published book by a reputable publisher that has been cleared by legal before I go with an anonymous poster in a public forum, which I absolutely will not do. Just because something is published doesn't mean it is true. Not suing doesn't mean the books are true. Some of the books on the list are more reputable than others, but they all basically tell the same story over and over and over about Ross.... hard to ignore.

[marv2]

Diana Ross has not presented a case for libel or slander for any of the books. The books are well researched with 1,000s of direct witnesses contributing. These books would be extremely damaging to any performer's reputation, yet Diana Ross took no legal action to protect her image and reputation. It should also be noted, they all were published while she was alive and able to defend herself against the irreparable harm these books have done to her career. For example, all of the books about Whitney Houston were published after her death when she could not defend herself.

There are more 'tell all' books about Diana Ross' behavior than any performer I can think of. I can double the list of books if this is not sufficient. The preponderance of published evidence is too much to dismiss the allegations of bad behavior as proliferation of rumors or exaggeration and cannot be ignored.

I am shocked that this is even an issue at this late date. The question should not be IF but WHY?

Did you read Bettye LaVette's book? It makes what Gladys Knight said her book sound very tame.

[marv2]

I am not looking to pick a fight or question your integrity:o but can you provide the e-mail of Maxine Ballard as documented proof - you've fallen into the same trap you were taking a stance against.

Regarding Tony Turner, I wasn't there so I don't know the real truth, but no legal action was taken against him and people have been sued for millions for a lot less. I've have heard some things that raised a red flag and I am leaning towards Tony right now. I thought it was trash initially. Many people who have been subjected to sexual abuse do not come forward because they will treated as attention seeking liars. He was an underage boy hanging around adults in the entertainment industry and subject to predatory behavior. I applaud him for coming forth and maybe this will help other victims heal. I felt he was taking revenge against Mary Wilson for firing him and I questioned some of the Mary Wilson horror stories.

Meeting people who have worked with Ross is no big deal. I have hearsay, hearsay, hearsay throughout the years. I have heard basically the same thing over and over and I will leave it at that. I have never met her and have no desire to.

I will go with a published book by a reputable publisher that has been cleared by legal before I go with an anonymous poster in a public forum, which I absolutely will not do. Just because something is published doesn't mean it is true. Not suing doesn't mean the books are true. Some of the books on the list are more reputable than others, but they all basically tell the same story over and over and over about Ross.... hard to ignore.

Maxine Ballard is no longer with us. She passed away 2-3 years ago. Yes when I met Tony Turner he was working for Mary Wilson. After she fired him, he wrote his books. The book he was going to put out regarding Berry Gordy got him and his publisher a hefty lawsuit so that was squashed. So many books and so many people that have not written books about Diana Ross have said so, so many negative things about her. Young artists and young managers that worked at Motown all pretty much said the same things.
If I mention some of the singers that have made negative comments about Miss Ross, it would surprise some of you that she even came in contact with them. Many of them are on social media and do not need the headache that Diana Ross fans would try to give them over their bad experiences with Ross.

[mpn1jco]

Maxine Ballard is no longer with us. She passed away 2-3 years ago. Yes when I met Tony Turner he was working for Mary Wilson. After she fired him, he wrote his books. The book he was going to put out regarding Berry Gordy got him and his publisher a hefty lawsuit so that was squashed. So many books and so many people that have not written books about Diana Ross have said so, so many negative things about her. Young artists and young managers that worked at Motown all pretty much said the same things.
If I mention some of the singers that have made negative comments about Miss Ross, it would surprise some of you that she even came in contact with them. Many of them are on social media and do not need the headache that Diana Ross fans would try to give them over their bad experiences with Ross.
Thanks for clearing some issues up.

[marv2]

Thanks for clearing some issues up.

You are most welcome.

[mpn1jco]

Yes I did. Bettye's stories about Ross' antics were hilarious! I never viewed Ross the same again.

[mpn1jco]

She told people in San Diego last year at an outdoors concert to stop eating their food because they do not do that in places like Vegas when an artist is performing! She asked them "didn't you guys eat before coming here?" The people continued to eat their food that was being sold at the venue and she eventually went back singing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiebC2dCxM

[marv2]

I find it interesting that you, of all people, are seeking documented proof of anything DEAR

Yeah, isn't she suppose to be a firm believer in the Bible that she quotes regularly?

[marv2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiebC2dCxM

There was also one of her telling a guy who arrived late to her show in Atlantic City to sit down and shut up or get out!

[marv2]

Here's one where she's telling someone who cannot see the stage because of others standing up in her very "classy" audience that if they don't like it, they can go......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olCQq11kToM

[marv2]

It would be great to have the one where she beats the woman in the head with her hat box that has a dog in it that she is trying to carry on board a flight.

[TomatoTom123]

It would be great to have the one where she beats the woman in the head with her hat box that has a dog in it that she is trying to carry on board a flight.

What the??? Lol
Marv, how comes you remember all this stuff?? :)

[marv2]

What the??? Lol
Marv, how comes you remember all this stuff?? :)

Are you kidding me? How many big celebrities do you know that does this type of crude stuff on the regular?

[TomatoTom123]

Are you kidding me? How many big celebrities do you know that does this type of crude stuff on the regular?

None I suppose... but that's including Diana Ross ;)

I guess I'm not paying enough attention to celebrity news!!! I had never heard of any of this stuff before. I couldn't find anything for her firing that flower girl either. Are these recent events?

[marv2]

None... including Diana Ross
I guess I'm not paying enough attention to celebrity news!!! I had never heard of any of this stuff before. I couldn't find anything for her firing that flower girl either. Are these recent events?

Well, you have missed a lot. Many know about these things in America.

[TomatoTom123]

Oh ok... yea, I suppose so. Then again I'm not sure I really want to know!

[marv2]

Oh ok... yea, I suppose so. Then again I'm not sure I really want to know!

I am sure you know about the time she shoved the 3 year old little girl into a door:

http://mediatakeout.com/shocker-diana-ross-shoves-3-year-old-girl-into-a-door/

[marv2]

How could you not know about how she exploded in that restaurant LaScala? I think you're just being modest, or just being something LOL!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/diana-ross-restaurant-scene_n_2424572.html

[mpn1jco]

I like that when asked to produce documented proof you did, instead of presenting silence or ignoring the requests.

It looks like with certain celebrities their behavior never changes with time! I am disgusted!

[TomatoTom123]

If I'm honest I don't think I really care [[or should care!) about these quite petty stories. I don't know. They don't really interest me. I'd much prefer an article on 'How we made Baby Love' or something like that. I mean, I can't name instances in which Diana has done something awful but I can give you my favourite Diana songs from 1974 if you like. I'm all about the music!

[mpn1jco]

I didnt ask you for anything dearest.

It appears Marv2 complied with your request. Perhaps you could reciprocate. There is information that people would like to know...

[mpn1jco]

If I'm honest I don't think I really care [[or should care!) about these quite petty stories. I don't know. They don't really interest me. I'd much prefer an article on 'How we made Baby Love' or something like that. I mean, I can't name instances in which Diana has done something awful but I can give you my favourite Diana songs from 1974 if you like. I'm all about the music!
I need a holistic approach to things. These stories offer an explanation as to why someone is at a particular juncture and how they are handling it. Disturbing. There is noting petty about being investigated by the authorities for possible assault on a three year old. There was an investigation because a complaint was filed against the person in question! Many questions that have been presented are already answered if you read the signs in front of you. Thanks again Marv2, very valuable and significant information.

[marv2]

If I'm honest I don't think I really care [[or should care!) about these quite petty stories. I don't know. They don't really interest me. I'd much prefer an article on 'How we made Baby Love' or something like that. I mean, I can't name instances in which Diana has done something awful but I can give you my favourite Diana songs from 1974 if you like. I'm all about the music!

My favorite Diana Ross story from 1974 was when she came back to Detroit to perform for newly elected Mayor Coleman A. Young's swearing and threw a cup of hot tea in the face of a Detroit Society Lady because the woman said something to her about her clothing. Here is an old newspaper clipping regarding the event. A friend saved it and sent it in. The tea cup throwing incident was in another column in the Detroit Free Press that I'll ask if he can find

12774

[mpn1jco]

My favorite Diana Ross story from 1974 was when she came back to Detroit to perform for newly elected Mayor Coleman A. Young's swearing and threw a cup of hot tea in the face of a Detroit Society Lady because the woman said something to her about her clothing.

That is all over the internet and published several times. It was quickly covered up at the time. People have been blinded when a hot beverage is thrown in their face.

[marv2]

If I'm honest I don't think I really care [[or should care!) about these quite petty stories. I don't know. They don't really interest me. I'd much prefer an article on 'How we made Baby Love' or something like that. I mean, I can't name instances in which Diana has done something awful but I can give you my favourite Diana songs from 1974 if you like. I'm all about the music!

Well you asked me .That is why I continued to try to explain. YOU asked ME!

[TomatoTom123]

I need a holistic approach to things. These stories offer an explanation as to why someone is at a particular juncture and how they are handling it. Disturbing. Many questions that have been presented are already answered if you read the signs in front of you.

Hi mpn1jco by the way! I remember you from a while back. :)

Those stories, I don't know, seem like petty celebrity magazine articles or something. I wouldn't read too much into them.

You know -- sorry, this is quite irrelevant but it's also interesting -- I saw a TV program about a paparazzi guy and how he 'gets' stories. He got his friend to give some celebrity [[who is accused of doing a lot of drinking) a bottle of wine. The friend claimed it was a thank you present as the celebrity had met his parents the previous week and given them her signature. The paparazzi guy takes lots of pictures of her with the bottle. He then phones up some random celebrity magazine anonymously with a story about this celebrity and her drunk ways. The next day there is a story in the magazine, claiming that the celebrity had got out a bottle of wine from her bag, guzzled it down, and then put it back. Crazy!

Please enjoy my random celebrity anecdote. ;)

[mpn1jco]

Hi mpn1jco by the way! I remember you from a while back. :)

Those stories, I don't know, seem like petty celebrity magazine articles or something. I wouldn't read too much into them.

You know -- sorry, this is quite irrelevant but it's also interesting -- I saw a TV program about a paparazzi guy and how he 'gets' stories. He got his friend to give some celebrity [[who is accused of doing a lot of drinking) a bottle of wine. The friend claimed it was a thank you present as the celebrity had met his parents the previous week and given them her signature. The paparazzi guy takes lots of pictures of her with the bottle. He then phones up some random celebrity magazine anonymously with a story about this celebrity and her drunk ways. The next day there is a story in the magazine, claiming that the celebrity had got out a bottle of wine from her bag, guzzled it down, and then put it back. Crazy!

Please enjoy my random celebrity anecdote. ;)

Enjoyed!;)

[marv2]

Hi mpn1jco by the way! I remember you from a while back. :)

Those stories, I don't know, seem like petty celebrity magazine articles or something. I wouldn't read too much into them.

You know -- sorry, this is quite irrelevant but it's also interesting -- I saw a TV program about a paparazzi guy and how he 'gets' stories. He got his friend to give some celebrity [[who is accused of doing a lot of drinking) a bottle of wine. The friend claimed it was a thank you present as the celebrity had met his parents the previous week and given them her signature. The paparazzi guy takes lots of pictures of her with the bottle. He then phones up some random celebrity magazine anonymously with a story about this celebrity and her drunk ways. The next day there is a story in the magazine, claiming that the celebrity had got out a bottle of wine from her bag, guzzled it down, and then put it back. Crazy!

Please enjoy my random celebrity anecdote. ;)

I heard that before about Jonathan Rhys Meyers, but he really is an alcoholic among other things.

[TomatoTom123]

Well you asked me .That is why I continued to try to explain. YOU asked ME!

Marv, I didn't ask you come up with a list of events in which Diana Ross did some atrocious things. I asked you why you know about so many of them and so much about them. Sorry, I should have been clearer :)

[PeaceNHarmony]

RTL was a great show

[marv2]

Marv, I didn't ask you come up with a list of events in which Diana Ross did some atrocious things. I asked you why you know about so many of them and so much about them. Sorry! :)

You ask me, just not directly. You asked how I knew , so I started to show to which you started to shrug things off as entertainment news etc. What do you think we are chatting about here? Get a grip.

[marv2]

RTL was a great show

Also a poorly planned concert tour that had to be cancelled due to a lack of tickets sales.

[TomatoTom123]

You ask me, just not directly. You asked how I knew , so I started to show to which you started to shrug things off as entertainment news etc. What do you think we are chatting about here? Get a grip.

Wha!? I was just wondering why you would know all this stuff about Diana Ross if you don't care about and/or for her. And I was just saying that because it's 'entertainment news' -- that's why I don't know about it. Sorry, I didn't mean to dismiss or shrug off anything you said. :[[

[luke]

Many people don't care for Trump but know a lot about him. We are Motown historians

[marv2]

Wha!? I was just wondering why you would know all this stuff about Diana Ross if you don't care about and/or for her. And I was just saying that because it's 'entertainment news' -- that's why I don't know about it. Sorry, I didn't mean to dismiss or shrug off anything you said. :[[

For a person that did not "ask me", you sure are doing a lot of equivocating now! LOL!

[marv2]

Many people don't care for Trump but know a lot about him. We are Motown historians

Exactly and thank you!

[TomatoTom123]

For a person that did not "ask me", you sure are doing a lot of equivocating now! LOL!

Yea, I guess I am... I'll stop now... LOL :)

[captainjames]

In all the times and years that I had seen the girls and Diana concert I have never heard them sing Reflections live. Seeing them on Ed Sullivan in those black gowns was eye popping then. They wore some gowns similar to that in RTL but were shorter which brought back those times from the Ed Sullivan show. NOW here I was seeing Diana, Scherrie and Lynda singing Reflections right in front of me made it all worth while.

[vgalindo]

I don't see nothing rude in the video clips. I have been to many dinner shows in the past and there should be no serving during the performance. Waiters try to serve the late comers and it is a big distraction to the other audience members who are trying to watch the show. The other video clip shows Diana sticking up for her fans telling the staff to let them stand if they want too. The audience was cheering her on!!

[RanRan79]

I am not looking to pick a fight or question your integrity:o but can you provide the e-mail of Maxine Ballard as documented proof - you've fallen into the same trap you were taking a stance against.

Regarding Tony Turner, I wasn't there so I don't know the real truth, but no legal action was taken against him and people have been sued for millions for a lot less. I've have heard some things that raised a red flag and I am leaning towards Tony right now. I thought it was trash initially. Many people who have been subjected to sexual abuse do not come forward because they will treated as attention seeking liars. He was an underage boy hanging around adults in the entertainment industry and subject to predatory behavior. I applaud him for coming forth and maybe this will help other victims heal. I felt he was taking revenge against Mary Wilson for firing him and I questioned some of the Mary Wilson horror stories.

Meeting people who have worked with Ross is no big deal. I have hearsay, hearsay, hearsay throughout the years. I have heard basically the same thing over and over and I will leave it at that. I have never met her and have no desire to.

I will go with a published book by a reputable publisher that has been cleared by legal before I go with an anonymous poster in a public forum, which I absolutely will not do. Just because something is published doesn't mean it is true. Not suing doesn't mean the books are true. Some of the books on the list are more reputable than others, but they all basically tell the same story over and over and over about Ross.... hard to ignore.

Oh you could never pick a fight with me. I'm a grown ass man. Internet "fights" are indicative of low intelligence and lack of maturity, neither of which are problems for me. So unless you explicitly were to write "I'm picking a fight with you", I wouldn't see it that way. I also know how to terminate any conversation that appears to be going left and I believe there's a "block" feature in this group, so if I felt the need to utilize it, I would. We're all good.

As to the rest of your post, you failed to comprehend my point if you think that I was attempting to provide you proof of anything. This thread has suddenly become a lengthier thread because a couple of posters, such as yourself, has attempted to provide "proof" that Diana Ross is a bitch. [[Let's call it like it is...that is the point...that she's a "bitch".) This "proof" doesn't change my opinion on the subject, one way or the other. I entered this seeing Diana Ross as an imperfect human being and I will exit feeling the exact same way.

What Maxine Ballard said to me doesn't need to be proven as I am not seeking to sway anyone's opinion on Diana Ross. I am a huge fan of Diana's voice and her music, but she is not my mother, my grandmother, my sister, my aunt, my niece or my cousin. Hell, she's not even my friend! LOL So why would I ever get so invested in proving anything where she's concerned? Short answer: I wouldn't. I would ask why it seems to be so important to some of you, but then I have to ask myself do I even care to do that? Short answer: nope. So in the end it looks like we'll have to agree to disagree. But I will concede this: there's enough stories floating around about her from back in the day that one can legitimately surmise that at the very least, where there was smoke, there might at least be a little bit of fire.

[RanRan79]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiebC2dCxM

LMAO!!!! She never told the crowd to stop eating. She told the servers to stop serving. And wouldn't that make sense, that a venue serve food before the show or during intermissions, not while a performer is in the middle of a thing? Isn't that why places like Vegas have that rule? If anything, all this video proved is that when it comes to Miss Ross sometimes interpretation is what drives the story. I know one thing, I would be too awestruck to eat anything if I were sitting in the same room as one of my favorites. Lol

[Circa 1824]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiebC2dCxM

I am embarrassed for her. OUTRAGEOUS BEHAVIOR ON HER PART.

[RanRan79]

Here's one where she's telling someone who cannot see the stage because of others standing up in her very "classy" audience that if they don't like it, they can go......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olCQq11kToM

This one is iffy. On one hand, whatever the issue, there should have been a more diplomatic way to handle it. This very well could be a funky Diana moment. On the other, her reaction to this situation could have been based on the reaction of the person she was talking to. I mean, who goes to a concert and doesn't understand that you may not be able to have an unblocked view because fans decide to stand up? Was the person picking a fight? Because if I go to a show and get out of my seat, there's a certain way the person behind me can ask me to sit down, and I might oblige, and then there's a way you can demand I sit down and then I'm going to act like where I'm from. I need more information about this video before I form a conclusive opinion one way or the other.

[RanRan79]

It would be great to have the one where she beats the woman in the head with her hat box that has a dog in it that she is trying to carry on board a flight.

I believe that was a story Joe Shaffner told, and it was he who was getting hit upside the head with a hat box. Lol

[RanRan79]

I am sure you know about the time she shoved the 3 year old little girl into a door:

http://mediatakeout.com/shocker-diana-ross-shoves-3-year-old-girl-into-a-door/

Never heard of this, probably because it's such a non story. I googled it [[despite Mediatakeout being the reputable source that it is...NOT! LOL) and found very little, and nothing in any of the majors. I did find an old thread of it here on SD. If it happened I don't believe it was on purpose. Just like I didn't believe the story about Patti Labelle and the child she supposedly hurt.

[RanRan79]

If I'm honest I don't think I really care [[or should care!) about these quite petty stories. I don't know. They don't really interest me. I'd much prefer an article on 'How we made Baby Love' or something like that. I mean, I can't name instances in which Diana has done something awful but I can give you my favourite Diana songs from 1974 if you like. I'm all about the music!

I'm interested in the stories because it makes for good entertainment, true or not. [[Some of them aren't entertaining, true or not, because of the severe implications they have, but most make for the kind of tabloid reading that a lot of us Americans thrive upon.) But nothing is more important than the music. And Diana Ross has made some excellent recordings with the Supremes and as solo, so there's so much more to talk about there than mindless gossip.

[RanRan79]

I don't see nothing rude in the video clips. I have been to many dinner shows in the past and there should be no serving during the performance. Waiters try to serve the late comers and it is a big distraction to the other audience members who are trying to watch the show. The other video clip shows Diana sticking up for her fans telling the staff to let them stand if they want too. The audience was cheering her on!!

Vgalindo that's my thoughts on the serving video too. But was Diana talking to the staff of the seating video or a fan? Depending on which definitely tells a different story.

[RanRan79]

Ok, RanRan, I'm starting and you can't stop me!!!!

"Bad Weather" is really just an all-round fantastic song. Uplifting, funky, catchy, danceable [[proto-Disco even) and it has that undeniably brilliant Stevie magic!!! It has to be my all-time fave Jean performance too. And I just love that horn section and even the discotheque whistles!!

RanRan, I would like to think that a Stevie-produced Supremes album would have been as commercially successful as it would have been absolutely fantastic [[he was slap bang in the middle of his classic period after all!) but you never know. I mean, "Bad Weather" barely cracked the Hot 100, excuse my language but WTF? ;)

And, yea, I reckon Jean would get most of the leads. But I ain't complainin' neither... just look at "Bad Weather" and see how well the Stevie-Jean combination worked!!! And with Mary and Lynda on Wonderlove harmonies... ahh, what might have been... oh well! I'm just glad we got "Bad Weather" after all. :)

So now I'm done with the silliness and getting back to the music...Yes I agree, "Bad Weather" is such a great song. It boggles the mind that it wasn't at least a top 20 hit. One would think that DJs would spin it for the Supremes/Stevie connection alone. Have you heard the extended version from the 2000 box set? They really cut up at the end. Supposedly there are a few other Stevie produced Supremes cuts waiting to be released and I can't wait to hear them. Motown really should have given this collaboration more of a chance to take off.

[TomatoTom123]

So now I'm done with the silliness and getting back to the music...Yes I agree, "Bad Weather" is such a great song. It boggles the mind that it wasn't at least a top 20 hit. One would think that DJs would spin it for the Supremes/Stevie connection alone. Have you heard the extended version from the 2000 box set? They really cut up at the end. Supposedly there are a few other Stevie produced Supremes cuts waiting to be released and I can't wait to hear them. Motown really should have given this collaboration more of a chance to take off.

OH MY! RanRan, I had no idea that an extended version of the song existed... I am listening to it right now and, oh my, that fake ending just got me!!!! Lol... I love it! There's even Stevie there at the beginning and Mary laughing at the end. How brilliant. Thank you very much! :)

And yes, I can't believe DJ's didn't play it simply because it was written and produced by Stevie Wonder, who was at the time, ON FIRE! [[hit-wise, obviously :p) Should have gone to #1 in my opinion...

Wait, there are more Supremes-Stevie recordings? Yes!!! I was under the impression that "Bad Weather" was literally the one only thing they did together. Oh, wow, that's excellent news, thank you RanRan. Hope they get released sometime soon ;)

[vgalindo]

The title of the video is "Diana telling off staff and sticking up for her fans". I see it that way too. The reactions of the fans screaming and cheering her on tells the story.

[marv2]

I believe that was a story Joe Shaffner told, and it was he who was getting hit upside the head with a hat box. Lol

It was the stewardess[[that's what they called them back in the day LOL!), because she was trying to keep Diane from bringing that barking dog on board. It was Joe Shaffner that had to pay the airlines off to keep Motown from being sued and Diane being arrested! That's how I understood it.

[marv2]

OH MY! RanRan, I had no idea that an extended version of the song existed... I am listening to it right now and, oh my, that fake ending just got me!!!! Lol... I love it! There's even Stevie there at the beginning and Mary laughing at the end. How brilliant. Thank you very much! :)

And yes, I can't believe DJ's didn't play it simply because it was written and produced by Stevie Wonder, who was at the time, ON FIRE! [[hit-wise, obviously :p) Should have gone to #1 in my opinion...

Wait, there are more Supremes-Stevie recordings? Yes!!! I was under the impression that "Bad Weather" was literally the one only thing they did together. Oh, wow, that's excellent news, thank you RanRan. Hope they get released sometime soon ;)

Mary sings "Bad Weather" in concert from time to time now.

[marv2]

The title of the video is "Diana telling off staff and sticking up for her fans". I see it that way too. The reactions of the fans screaming and cheering her on tells the story.

I see it as, if I bought an expensive ticket to a show and was not able to see the show because some rude assh**e decides that he or she wants to stand up and block my view for the whole show , I am going to get arrested and somebody's going to go to the hospital! LOL!!!

[luke]

My understanding is Patti made a settlement with the child's parents. I have seen many singers perform while food is being served and none of them had an issue with it.

[marv2]

Vgalindo that's my thoughts on the serving video too. But was Diana talking to the staff of the seating video or a fan? Depending on which definitely tells a different story.

The staff would have been just doing their jobs if she were talking to them. Evidently, it is a venue that has served customers food during other concerts. She should be more selective of the venues she plays if it is such a big problem for her......... .

[vgalindo]

My understanding is Patti made a settlement with the child's parents. I have seen many singers perform while food is being served and none of them had an issue with it.
Well I sure did have an issue with it. Late comers being served during a performance. It was really annoying and distracting. And I think it is rude to the performer as well.

[marv2]

My understanding is Patti made a settlement with the child's parents. I have seen many singers perform while food is being served and none of them had an issue with it.

About 100 years ago. I had a front row table at one of Mary Wilson's concerts. We were smoking cigarettes and having drinks. We were so close to the stage that the smoke waded up onto the stage and right under Mary's nose LOL! She looked at me, wriggled her nose to let me know to put it out and we did. She never said a word, nor did she ever stop singing. LOL!

[marv2]

Well I sure did have an issue with it. Late comers being served during a performance. It was really annoying and distracting. And I think it is rude to the performer as well.

Well she should be playing dinner shows, banquets or wherever food is being sold and allowed in the seating area. It was not the servers or the patrons fault at all that she did not like it. They were paying her to perform for them.....THERE! Choose a different venue.

[vgalindo]

Well she should be playing dinner shows, banquets or wherever food is being sold and allowed in the seating area. It was not the servers or the patrons fault at all that she did not like it. They were paying her to perform for them.....THERE! Choose a different venue.
That's not true. Everybody is told there will be no serving or ordering food during the performance. However there will be some waiter who is probably tipped and goes against the rules. Believe me it is very distracting hearing people ordering food and talking while the performer is singing just because they weren't on time.

[marv2]

That's not true. Everybody is told there will be no serving or ordering food during the performance. However there will be some waiter who is probably tipped and goes against the rules. Believe me it is very distracting hearing people ordering food and talking while the performer is singing just because they weren't on time.

Well evidently they don't respect her and go on and make their money just like she's making hers!

[luke]

Some top of line nightclubs do it and nobody freaks out. This has been going on for 80 years!

[marv2]

Some top of line nightclubs do it and nobody freaks out. This has been going on for 80 years!

They served dinner at the old Copa.

[luke]

And currently at BB Kings..all night. I got a hamburger at Mary's last show there and she didn't yell at me!! And weI ate at Darlene Loves show too and she didn't yell at us or the servers! Whaddyaknow!

[captainjames]

Once again RTL was the last time you will ever see three Supremes on stage - and they may not have been the three everyone wanted to see for the last time but those ladies were damn good together. Not to take away from Mary and Cindy who were not there but, at the same time not to condemn Scherrie and Lynda. I loved it, I lived it and I was fine with it.

[captainjames]

Really and truly wish they would have done a live album of the concert.

[vgalindo]

They served dinner at the old Copa.

They serve dinner during the show? All dinner shows that I have attended the dinner was served before the performance! In fact the dinner shows at Caesers back in the 80s. Everybody was warned to finish eating because tables had to be cleared of dishes and food before the show started.

[endlesslove]

LMAO!!!! She never told the crowd to stop eating. She told the servers to stop serving. And wouldn't that make sense, that a venue serve food before the show or during intermissions, not while a performer is in the middle of a thing? Isn't that why places like Vegas have that rule? If anything, all this video proved is that when it comes to Miss Ross sometimes interpretation is what drives the story. I know one thing, I would be too awestruck to eat anything if I were sitting in the same room as one of my favorites. Lol

Why do all of your posts contradict each other? Deliberate?

[marv2]

They serve dinner during the show? All dinner shows that I have attended the dinner was served before the performance! In fact the dinner shows at Caesers back in the 80s. Everybody was warned to finish eating because tables had to be cleared of dishes and food before the show started.

Mary said her hand almost landed in this guy's plate of spaghetti once while performing at the Copa. The tables were that close!

[Circa 1824]

I recently saw Rhonda Ross in concert in NYC. They served food and drink before AND during the performance. Diana's anger got the better of her, and she came off looking foolish.

[RanRan79]

The title of the video is "Diana telling off staff and sticking up for her fans". I see it that way too. The reactions of the fans screaming and cheering her on tells the story.

Well duh!! If I had paid attention to the actual title of the video I would know that. Explains a lot. Thanks Vgalindo.

[RanRan79]

It was the stewardess[[that's what they called them back in the day LOL!), because she was trying to keep Diane from bringing that barking dog on board. It was Joe Shaffner that had to pay the airlines off to keep Motown from being sued and Diane being arrested! That's how I understood it.

Yup, you're right. Can you imagine what the poor dog must have been going through? LOL

[RanRan79]

Well evidently they don't respect her and go on and make their money just like she's making hers!

If they don't respect her then they shouldn't have a problem when she disrespects them, right? At least that's how I operate in my day to day life.

[Roberta75]

169 posts and 40 of them are from her number 1 obsesser who posted the following. LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Somebody has Diane on they mind 24./7

"Originally Posted by marv2 October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."

[RanRan79]

Once again RTL was the last time you will ever see three Supremes on stage - and they may not have been the three everyone wanted to see for the last time but those ladies were damn good together. Not to take away from Mary and Cindy who were not there but, at the same time not to condemn Scherrie and Lynda. I loved it, I lived it and I was fine with it.

Kind of sad when you think about it. Of course my opinion is to never say never. I didn't get a chance to check out RTL in person but I'm glad so many of the fans who did go enjoyed the show. It may be accurate to say you'll never see Diana, Lynda and Scherrie as the Supremes together again, so it was a once in a lifetime opportunity. In any case it's a concert so I never understood why, with all the things to be upset about in this life, why some fans are still so butt hurt about the details of a 17 year old concert. Lol It takes all kinds, I guess.

[RanRan79]

Really and truly wish they would have done a live album of the concert.

I would normally be on the fence about this. As a true fan I would dig it, but on the other hand understand that releasing an album of a cancelled, controversial tour would have been a potentially bad financial move. But recently finding out that "Forever Came Today" and "Nothing But Heartaches" were in the repertoire during the tour is what pushes me over to the agreement side because I would love to have Ross singing these along with the others. If only she had added "A Breath Taking Guy". She often mentions it and sings the chorus so I'm surprised that she never put it in her live act post Supremes.

[jobeterob]

Lots of interesting idle chatter and gossip about who you like and who you don't.

In the end, Diana got the big prize - the successful children; and the hits and the Oscar Nomination, the Grammy Life Time Achievement Award, Barack's Presidential Medal of Freedom, the Tony, the Soul Train Music Lifetime Achievement Award, Central Park, the money, the sales.

Mary got to bitch and whine and then she got tired of that and tried to play nice. No hits, no sales, no reunion, retirement and trailer park venues, idle chatter that she tries to shut down and then someone posted a rather unflattering picture of a rather heavy child.

Oh, woe is her.

[RanRan79]

Why do all of your posts contradict each other? Deliberate?

I've made 110 posts over the last few weeks and you mean to tell me that I contradict myself in all of them?? Goodness gracious!! What am I doing with my life? Well, I'll tell you what, how about you give me an example of what you're talking about. Maybe you're unclear and I'm the only one who can straighten things out for ya. Sometimes we comprehend what we read on the internet erroneously. I hope it's that. I hate to think of myself as the type of person who makes contradictory statements. I don't think I could live with myself.

[RanRan79]

169 posts and 40 of them are from her number 1 obsesser who posted the following. LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Somebody has Diane on they mind 24./7

"Originally Posted by marv2 October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."

Okay Ms. Roberta, let's keep it classy. Lol

[RanRan79]

Lots of interesting idle chatter and gossip about who you like and who you don't.

In the end, Diana got the big prize - the successful children; and the hits and the Oscar Nomination, the Grammy Life Time Achievement Award, Barack's Presidential Medal of Freedom, the Tony, the Soul Train Music Lifetime Achievement Award, Central Park, the money, the sales.

Mary got to bitch and whine and then she got tired of that and tried to play nice. No hits, no sales, no reunion, retirement and trailer park venues, idle chatter that she tries to shut down and then someone posted a rather unflattering picture of a rather heavy child.

Oh, woe is her.

I wouldn't say it's fair [[nor accurate) to go after Mary like that because some folks have fun going after Diana. Diana has had a ton of achievements in her life, not the least of which is her children, whom she seems to be devoted to. You don't have to kick Mary down to lift Diana up. Diana does that all on her own. These two women have accomplished more together and apart than most, if not all, of the people posting in this thread [[not including myself, of course! HA!!). They are the Supremes. Let's keep that in mind folks.

[RanRan79]

OH MY! RanRan, I had no idea that an extended version of the song existed... I am listening to it right now and, oh my, that fake ending just got me!!!! Lol... I love it! There's even Stevie there at the beginning and Mary laughing at the end. How brilliant. Thank you very much! :)

And yes, I can't believe DJ's didn't play it simply because it was written and produced by Stevie Wonder, who was at the time, ON FIRE! [[hit-wise, obviously :p) Should have gone to #1 in my opinion...

Wait, there are more Supremes-Stevie recordings? Yes!!! I was under the impression that "Bad Weather" was literally the one only thing they did together. Oh, wow, that's excellent news, thank you RanRan. Hope they get released sometime soon ;)

Is that Mary laughing at the end? I never knew which Supreme it was. Glad I could turn you onto something new Tom! They really kicked ass with that. Yes, it's my understanding that there are a couple of Stevie cuts left in the vaults. How many I don't know. Perhaps someone in the group can enlighten us. I believe "Soft Days" is supposed to be one. I have a bootleg of it but it doesn't sound like a Stevie production to me. Perhaps when it's given a professional mix the Stevieness of it might shine through better.

[RanRan79]

Mary sings "Bad Weather" in concert from time to time now.

How does she sound singing "Bad Weather" Marv? My first thought is that it would be a Supremes cut she shouldn't be doing, but I wonder if that's because I'm processing the sounds of the original cut and Mary's voice at the time as opposed to what it would sound like today with a band tailoring it to Mary's voice. The more I think about it I can imagine her really jamming with it today.

[Roberta75]

Okay Ms. Roberta, let's keep it classy. Lol

Okay. Ill try. ;):cool:

[dickiemint]

To say we will never see three Supremes together on stage again might not be accurate only last year Susaye joined Lynda Sherrie and Joyce on stage to sing gonna let my heart do the walking who is to say susaye may repeat that performance
Look Forward to what we have, Diana , Mary and the FLOS still performing live and Keeping the Supremes Legacy alive .

[endlesslove]

Okay Ms. Roberta, let's keep it classy. Lol

Slow it down you are all over the place!

[endlesslove]

Take 5, gather your thoughts, take a stance and stick with it
Ok?

[RanRan79]

Okay. Ill try. ;):cool:

We appreciate it!:)

[RanRan79]

To say we will never see three Supremes together on stage again might not be accurate only last year Susaye joined Lynda Sherrie and Joyce on stage to sing gonna let my heart do the walking who is to say susaye may repeat that performance
Look Forward to what we have, Diana , Mary and the FLOS still performing live and Keeping the Supremes Legacy alive .

That's a good point too Dickiemint. I'm glad so many of the ladies are still so active. It's really a blessing.

[RanRan79]

Slow it down you are all over the place!

And you're trying too hard. You won't succeed. I see you coming. LMAO

Btw, have you figured out which contradictory statements you'd like to compare, or did you decide on another strategy?:cool:

[detmotownguy]

[QUOTE=marv2;379696]It was the stewardess[[that's what they called them back in the day LOL!), because she was trying to keep Diane from bringing that barking dog on board. It was Joe Shaffner that had to pay the airlines off to keep Motown from being sued and Diane being arrested! That's how I understood it.[/QUOTE ]
The perfect Saturday Night Live Skit.

[mpn1jco]

Take 5, gather your thoughts, take a stance and stick with it
Ok?

When people get excited their thoughts race sometimes. I see what you are talking about when I reviewed his posts but I think is everyone is guilty of it at times, including myself. Just leave it alone.

[luke]

I felt bad for that poor dog on the box. Cruel. And didn't Miss Ross completely lose it in England once screaming and kicking over a sound speaker. I believe one review said it was the shoddiest display of unprofessionalism he ever saw!

[mpn1jco]

ollie9 are you out there? send me a PM




http://diana-ross.freeforums.net/thread/9/force-power?page=16

[detmotownguy]

Hi Marv. I Remember this event being reported in the Detroit Feee Press in Jan 73 or 74. I Wish I had my subscription to newspapers.com to look this up.

[captainjames]

To say we will never see three Supremes together on stage again might not be accurate only last year Susaye joined Lynda Sherrie and Joyce on stage to sing gonna let my heart do the walking who is to say susaye may repeat that performance
Look Forward to what we have, Diana , Mary and the FLOS still performing live and Keeping the Supremes Legacy alive .

I am sorry what I meant was in full concert form,,,,I would love to see Susaye, Scherrie and Lynda in concert. Now those three know how to belt out a song.

[jobeterob]

I wouldn't say it's fair [[nor accurate) to go after Mary like that because some folks have fun going after Diana. Diana has had a ton of achievements in her life, not the least of which is her children, whom she seems to be devoted to. You don't have to kick Mary down to lift Diana up. Diana does that all on her own. These two women have accomplished more together and apart than most, if not all, of the people posting in this thread [[not including myself, of course! HA!!). They are the Supremes. Let's keep that in mind folks.

I agree with you

But because it is a forum that allows and encourages frank and often harsh opinions, every so often a frank and harsh recitation of some facts is warranted and appreciated by some people

[captainjames]

[QUOTE=marv2;379696]It was the stewardess[[that's what they called them back in the day LOL!), because she was trying to keep Diane from bringing that barking dog on board. It was Joe Shaffner that had to pay the airlines off to keep Motown from being sued and Diane being arrested! That's how I understood it.[/QUOTE ]
The perfect Saturday Night Live Skit.

I just want to make sure I understand ----are you guys referring to something that supposedly happen in 1966 ? Something that was in Randy T. book ? Which would have been right around the time Diana was 22 or 23 ? If so I can tell you some stories of some 23 year olds that are a lot better than this.

[daviddh]

i think there is another version of SOFT DAYS with Mary singing lead, and Ill Wait A Lifetime. only a few songs were recorded. the album was cancelled after BW flopped.

[jobeterob]

[QUOTE=detmotownguy;379848]

I just want to make sure I understand ----are you guys referring to something that supposedly happen in 1966 ? Something that was in Randy T. book ? Which would have been right around the time Diana was 22 or 23 ? If so I can tell you some stories of some 23 year olds that are a lot better than this.

Spend a lot of time on their back with Tom Jones because he's big?

[RanRan79]

I just want to make sure I understand ----are you guys referring to something that supposedly happen in 1966 ? Something that was in Randy T. book ? Which would have been right around the time Diana was 22 or 23 ? If so I can tell you some stories of some 23 year olds that are a lot better than this.

LOL Isn't that interesting? I get bringing up stuff within the last few years but bringing up stuff from when someone was in their 20s and they're now in their 70s?? LMAO I'll be 40 in a couple years and God help the person who brings up anything I did when I was 15 or 25, unless it's so we can all have a good laugh. As Mary Wilson would say, "Time to move on".

[RanRan79]

i think there is another version of SOFT DAYS with Mary singing lead, and Ill Wait A Lifetime. only a few songs were recorded. the album was cancelled after BW flopped.

So "Soft Days" was a Stevie production? I know Mary closes "Soft Days" out but I didn't know there's a version with her on lead. I bet it sounds great. I can't wait for more of this stuff to get a release.

[Ozmo]

LOL Isn't that interesting? I get bringing up stuff within the last few years but bringing up stuff from when someone was in their 20s and they're now in their 70s?? LMAO I'll be 40 in a couple years and God help the person who brings up anything I did when I was 15 or 25, unless it's so we can all have a good laugh. As Mary Wilson would say, "Time to move on".

Totally agree. Both Diana and Mary today seem to be at a good place in their lives. Clearly they have moved on. Some of our forum members need to catch up!

[marybrewster]

What you read is correct. Donna was given insufficient time to rehearse as indeed was Mariah and whilst this caused some initial difficulty the situation was quickly diffused and she and Diana met up the next day and cleared the air. To be fair to Mariah she was a real trooper on this particular occasion.

For those interested, here is a clip of Donna rehearsing with Diana and Mariah. Watch for it at about 1:15.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8BEewK7tOs

[RanRan79]

Thanks Mary Brewster. I'm trippin about Diana telling Mariah [[if it's true) not to do the high note at the end. I guess Diana say "Heifer you know I can't do that, so don't you try it". Lol They all looked like they were having fun though.

[reese]

What you read is correct. Donna was given insufficient time to rehearse as indeed was Mariah and whilst this caused some initial difficulty the situation was quickly diffused and she and Diana met up the next day and cleared the air. To be fair to Mariah she was a real trooper on this particular occasion.

Mariah was also still suffering from food poisoning. She had been hospitalized in Boston right before the DIVAS taping.

[Circa 1824]

It is unfortunate the whole thing did not totally collapse before it was ever announced to the public.

[vgalindo]

It is unfortunate the whole thing did not totally collapse before it was ever announced to the public.
Why? I really enjoyed the show. It was so exciting at the time. It was also the highest rated. So VH1 was happy.

[marv2]

Why? I really enjoyed the show. It was so exciting at the time. It was also the highest rated. So VH1 was happy.

It was a huge let down for most people which is why it failed and was cancelled. I remember how excited everyone was when it was announced in late 1999. Such a great opportunity for the Supremes and their fans just pissed away like that.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Why? I really enjoyed the show. It was so exciting at the time. It was also the highest rated. So VH1 was happy.

... I think that's Wilson posting anonymously & still holding her grudge :):D;) !!

[marv2]

... I think that's Wilson posting anonymously & still holding her grudge :):D;) !!

Mary's not holding a grudge over RTL. She wasn't the one that got cancelled and publicly humiliated.

[endlesslove]

... I think that's Wilson posting anonymously & still holding her grudge :):D;) !!
Will you please stop with the games?:mad:

[blackguy69]

Will you please stop with the games?:mad:
You know it's never going to stop. Certain fans on both side are going to hold on to it til they breathe their last breath.

[RanRan79]

You know it's never going to stop. Certain fans on both side are going to hold on to it til they breathe their last breath.

It's pathetic, but you speak the truth.

[endlesslove]

It's pathetic, but you speak the truth.

I just recognized who you are.

[detmotownguy]

Mary's not holding a grudge over RTL. She wasn't the one that got cancelled and publicly humiliated.

Yeah Marv, after all, all Mary had to do was show up lol!

[marv2]

Yeah Marv, after all, all Mary had to do was show up lol!

Yeah you know because they offered her the moon.........! LOL!

[imakicola]

Mary wanted a third. She even said in an interview she would need to be paid as a third. She wanted creative input. And to be an equal. That'll never happen! We all want a reunion but most people want Diana to be the center of it all, and given Diana's star cred, Mary will never ever be offered anywhere close to what Diana will. I don't know if Mary would still need a third now...it shouldn't be about money. They should just reunite for a performance at the Grammys or a Motown special again, it doesn't have to be a monetized tour! Money makes everything messy. Mary is my favorite Supreme but let's be honest here...the promoters will never offer Mary, Cindy, or anyone else what they'll offer Diana. And Diana can't even command the kind of money she used to either...she actually plays in casinos now.

[marv2]

Mary wanted a third. She even said in an interview she would need to be paid as a third. She wanted creative input. And to be an equal. That'll never happen! We all want a reunion but most people want Diana to be the center of it all, and given Diana's star cred, Mary will never ever be offered anywhere close to what Diana will. I don't know if Mary would still need a third now...it shouldn't be about money. They should just reunite for a performance at the Grammys or a Motown special again, it doesn't have to be a monetized tour! Money makes everything messy. Mary is my favorite Supreme but let's be honest here...the promoters will never offer Mary, Cindy, or anyone else what they'll offer Diana. And Diana can't even command the kind of money she used to either...she actually plays in casinos now.

They were always paid equally at Motown. You know that is when they were the top group in the World. It worked then, it would work now.

[RanRan79]

They were always paid equally at Motown. You know that is when they were the top group in the World. It worked then, it would work now.

True, but at Motown they were equal stars [[as Supremes). Their post Supremes careers aren't comparable in any logical way. Michael Jackson and Tito Jackson were paid the same at Motown but I hardly doubt that if MJ were alive today that he and Tito would get the same amount of money for going on tour together. That's just the business.

I would love to see these two still very active singers reunite in the thing that first brought them together. A television special [[like an awards show) might be a good place, as would some type of charity event. A tour is out of the question. I don't think the public's interest is enough to warrant it anymore. But even if they never come together in song again we still have their great body of work as the Supremes, which should always overshadow this RTL crap revisit.

[marv2]

True, but at Motown they were equal stars [[as Supremes). Their post Supremes careers aren't comparable in any logical way. Michael Jackson and Tito Jackson were paid the same at Motown but I hardly doubt that if MJ were alive today that he and Tito would get the same amount of money for going on tour together. That's just the business.

I would love to see these two still very active singers reunite in the thing that first brought them together. A television special [[like an awards show) might be a good place, as would some type of charity event. A tour is out of the question. I don't think the public's interest is enough to warrant it anymore. But even if they never come together in song again we still have their great body of work as the Supremes, which should always overshadow this RTL crap revisit.

You talk as if they were to be performing on different stages. As the Supremes you have to have Mary Wilson and in this case Cindy Birdsong since it was billed as "Diana Ross & the Supremes". They were being presented as a group. Berry Gordy would have paid them the same amount equally. SFX was a bunch of fools and we all laughed hard when this tour was cancelled in a most public way.........LOL!

SFX was not willing to leave any of their money on the table, nor was Diana Ross. Why expect Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong to do so?

[vgalindo]

Mary wanted a third. She even said in an interview she would need to be paid as a third. She wanted creative input. And to be an equal. That'll never happen! We all want a reunion but most people want Diana to be the center of it all, and given Diana's star cred, Mary will never ever be offered anywhere close to what Diana will. I don't know if Mary would still need a third now...it shouldn't be about money. They should just reunite for a performance at the Grammys or a Motown special again, it doesn't have to be a monetized tour! Money makes everything messy. Mary is my favorite Supreme but let's be honest here...the promoters will never offer Mary, Cindy, or anyone else what they'll offer Diana. And Diana can't even command the kind of money she used to either...she actually plays in casinos now.
I don't know if you have followed Diana Ross' career but she has always played casinos even and the height of her popularity!! She is one of the highest paid singers at these casinos.

[Roberta75]

Yeah Marv, after all, all Mary had to do was show up lol!

So funny you remember that Jon lol

[captainjames]

Didn't Diana, Mary, Flo and Cindy paid equally in the 60's because Diana and Berry insisted that the contracts remained that way and to avoid any animosity withing the group. After Diana left was when the salaries change.

[RanRan79]

You talk as if they were to be performing on different stages. As the Supremes you have to have Mary Wilson and in this case Cindy Birdsong since it was billed as "Diana Ross & the Supremes". They were being presented as a group. Berry Gordy would have paid them the same amount equally. SFX was a bunch of fools and we all laughed hard when this tour was cancelled in a most public way.........LOL!

SFX was not willing to leave any of their money on the table, nor was Diana Ross. Why expect Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong to do so?

I hate I'm allowing myself to stay in this mess, despite a million posts ago when I said there was no point.:rolleyes: But anyway, something just isn't adding up with my business sense. If Diana Ross is actually investing in the tour [[using her own money to make things happen), and Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong are being paid 4 million bucks and not being asked to spend a penny, what exactly was the problem again?

This tour crashed and burned because the childish egos of the two original legendary Supremes refused to take a backseat to grown woman common sense. After everything that had transpired between these women in the years between Motown 25 and the tour [[aside from their conversation after the death of Mary's son), they needed to have an airing out session. Too many people underestimate the importance of clearing the air. I see it everyday along with the problems that continually arise from things not dealt with. They should have locked themselves up in a hotel suite somewhere, laid all their interpersonal issues on the table, screamed, cussed, smack the ish out of the other, cried, purged, hugged and then moved on to the question of "How do we get this thing off the ground so that it's beneficial for everyone involved?".

Instead Diana tried to act like this was a normal business venture, Mary took her opportunity to find the power she feels like she never had when Ross was in the group the first time around, and then Diana got childish and decided she would show Mary who's boss and go out on the tour with "Mary's Supremes" instead. And as a result many of the fans felt shafted. Diana's reputation took a hit. Mary still hasn't garnered 4 million for anything since. And worst of all, Cindy got lost in the shuffle.

And rabid Supremes fans have something to argue about for the next 17 years. Oh joy.

[Roberta75]

I hate I'm allowing myself to stay in this mess, despite a million posts ago when I said there was no point.:rolleyes: But anyway, something just isn't adding up with my business sense. If Diana Ross is actually investing in the tour [[using her own money to make things happen), and Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong are being paid 4 million bucks and not being asked to spend a penny, what exactly was the problem again?

This tour crashed and burned because the childish egos of the two original legendary Supremes refused to take a backseat to grown woman common sense. After everything that had transpired between these women in the years between Motown 25 and the tour [[aside from their conversation after the death of Mary's son), they needed to have an airing out session. Too many people underestimate the importance of clearing the air. I see it everyday along with the problems that continually arise from things not dealt with. They should have locked themselves up in a hotel suite somewhere, laid all their interpersonal issues on the table, screamed, cussed, smack the ish out of the other, cried, purged, hugged and then moved on to the question of "How do we get this thing off the ground so that it's beneficial for everyone involved?".

Instead Diana tried to act like this was a normal business venture, Mary took her opportunity to find the power she feels like she never had when Ross was in the group the first time around, and then Diana got childish and decided she would show Mary who's boss and go out on the tour with "Mary's Supremes" instead. And as a result many of the fans felt shafted. Diana's reputation took a hit. Mary still hasn't garnered 4 million for anything since. And worst of all, Cindy got lost in the shuffle.

And rabid Supremes fans have something to argue about for the next 17 years. Oh joy.


RanRan, its real pitiful when you think of it. Miss Ross and Miss Wilson have moved on and Miss Birdson forgive both ladies in 2001 but a few fans take it real personally and I truly believe when they leave this here earth there very last words will be Diane......RTLllllllll sigh or Mary RTLllllllllsigh I wish I was joking but thats how serious and personal this cr*p is to them. It shouldnt be but it is. Smh.

[marv2]

I hate I'm allowing myself to stay in this mess, despite a million posts ago when I said there was no point.:rolleyes: But anyway, something just isn't adding up with my business sense. If Diana Ross is actually investing in the tour [[using her own money to make things happen), and Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong are being paid 4 million bucks and not being asked to spend a penny, what exactly was the problem again?



Problem was they were suppose to give Mary her right amount of money and maybe we would not have had to shut that tour down! LOL! Shut it down!

[RanRan79]

RanRan, its real pitiful when you think of it. Miss Ross and Miss Wilson have moved on and Miss Birdson forgive both ladies in 2001 but a few fans take it real personally and I truly believe when they leave this here earth there very last words will be Diane......RTLllllllll sigh or Mary RTLllllllllsigh I wish I was joking but thats how serious and personal this cr*p is to them. It shouldnt be but it is. Smh.

Sadly, you may be right. Not sure why any fan takes these things personally. Do they not have actual issues going on in their lives? I know I sure do. Discussing RTL is cool, but I aint taking this bulls**t personally, especially if Diana and Mary aint losing no sleep over it. Now this time I'm going to take Mary's advice for real: time to move on. Is there an ignore thread feature? ;)

[RanRan79]

Problem was they were suppose to give Mary her right amount of money and maybe we would not have had to shut that tour down! LOL! Shut it down!

Well that doesn't actually answer my question, but if you had a ball "shutting" it down, I'm glad you were able to get that kick. LOL See ya in another thread Marv.

[marv2]

Well that doesn't actually answer my question, but if you had a ball "shutting" it down, I'm glad you were able to get that kick. LOL See ya in another thread Marv.

No one really believed me at the time when I said it was going to happened, well folks on Long Island were not having it. I don't think it even sold out in Detroit either.

[marv2]

Well that doesn't actually answer my question, but if you had a ball "shutting" it down, I'm glad you were able to get that kick. LOL See ya in another thread Marv.

They weren't going to pay Mary Wilson or Cindy Birdsong $4 million. They started off by offering Cindy something like $ 850,000 and by the time Mary was finished with them she had gotten them up to $ 4million for herself and something around $ 2 million for Cindy when Diane said no, the train has already left the station.....! Yeah it had left the station and ran into a brick wall! LOL!

[luke]

Lol. And it derailed too!

[marv2]

Lol. And it derailed too!

All off into the grass.......hehehehehehehehehehe!

[luke]

Cho cho boo boo!

[marv2]

cho cho boo boo!

lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[captainjames]

what is so beautiful was when Diana said she would find another way to reconnect to the fans since that is what RTL was about and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, reconnect she did !!!!! She has been touting her butt off and the reviews have been outstanding.

[daviddh]

just to add in some facts....the promoters offered MW 2 million and Cindy 1. but DR doubled that amount to 4 Million. it was DR who offered her more to sign on to do the tour.

[vgalindo]

just to add in some facts....the promoters offered MW 2 million and Cindy 1. but DR doubled that amount to 4 Million. it was DR who offered her more to sign on to do the tour.
Yes this is what I heard too.

[jobucats]

Here's the full page ad which was in our local newspaper [[Atlanta Journal Constitution). I have this secured in a framed poster. 12895 [[I am not sure if I have attached the photo correctly).

[DJMoch]

That's pretty cool, jobucats, thanks for sharing! :D Nice to have that kind of memorabilia. Wish I did. :)

[PeaceNHarmony]

I as well! I did have that ad for a while, from the Sunday NY Times, for the MSG show, which was excellent!

[LoveSupreme]

I will refrain from participating in the pettiness on display in this thread - it's just not my style.

However, I will say what a missed opportunity this was for everyone involved.

This could have been a truly legendary reunion/tour.

Truly sad.

[ejluther]

I thought the ad campaign for RTL was quite nice [[see poster above) but the tour book was lacking IMO; in both it and the resulting shows' video screens there was zero Supremes-specific retro/nostalgic photos, videos, etc. On one hand it was nice as it made RTL its "own" show and not just a nostalgia-fest but a nostalgia-fest is what people wanted! At least they wore the "Reflections" dresses and sang the "Copa" song but had it been Mary and Cindy I can only imagine what the show had been like retro-wise - it was called RETURN To Love, after all! Oh, what could have been...