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imakicola
03-20-2017, 12:10 AM
I've always loved her beautiful, soft, sexy voice. And loved when she would soul it up! Mmm.

Anyway i thought I would start an appreciation thread for her voice. She truly was amazing!

I found a video on YouTube called "Mary Wilson CAN'T Sing," which is actually a video compilation of some of her strongest vocal moments intended to prove that yes, Mary actually CAN sing and very well.

https://youtu.be/UN48C0_2e0w

I've always said that Diana Ross was the key to the cross over success of the Supremes. But can you imagine if Mary wasn't a Supreme but had her own modest solo career already at Motown? She wouldn't be the background Supreme that wrote a book...she would be a name herself. Probably a more modest success and obviously Berry would have had the groups and Supremes given more attention, but Mary would be one of the classic Motown vocalists, and less of a background story.

Then people could say sentences like "Aretha Franklin, Etta James, Mary Wilson" instead of her name already implied but just being referred to as "The Supremes" or DRATS.

I honestly LOVED "Ooh Child."

And "Early Morning Love." Wow. "You Are the Heart of Me." True I think many of the old Supremes songs aren't really a good fit for her voice [[Reflections and Back in My Arms seem to be a weird fit) but she really belts out some of those later songs where she truly shines. Floy Joy. You Danced My Heart Around the Stars.

Swoon!

DJMoch
03-20-2017, 12:19 AM
I love Mary's voice especially in the 70s Supremes incarnation, when she got to do a lot more vocal-wise. Super sexy and sensual, songs like "Can we love again", "You are the heart of me" and "Early Morning Love" are just heavenly to my ears.

huntergettingcaptured
03-20-2017, 12:44 AM
Put me in the Mary Wilson Appreciation camp as well. Way before the internet gave every naysayer a voice and platform, I had never heard this thing about Mary not being able to sing. I was in love with her smokey style. One thing that always crossed my mind is that with Diana being the lead and the focal point of the group, I thought it was pretty cool that Mary got a lead on "Supremes A-Go-Go" and then with her version of "Can't Take My Eyes Off You." The "Floy Joy" single and album were further revelations of how good Mary was. She definitely had a style of her own- nobody else sounded like her and I mean that in the best way. Hearing her sing, wow; it honestly has a very potent effect on my very soul!

luke
03-20-2017, 08:18 AM
I was confused with this thread at first and watched the video. However It truly illustrates what a great singer and stylist she is. Not long ago I saw a video of her singing If I Were Your Woman and if my eyes were closed I'd think it was Gladys Knight. More is coming for Mary Wilson and she sure deserves acclaim.

TheMotownManiac
03-20-2017, 08:31 AM
I've loved Mary's voice the first time I heard it which was Baby Don't Go. SHe has a unique, soothingly rich sound and caresses ballads as well or better than the best of them. I just saw her in Vegas last month and she still sounds as good as she always has - her voice has only improved with age. She's currently trying to put together a scaled down version of Sophisticated Ladies and you must see it if it happens as those songs were just meant for her! QUOTE=imakicola;377141]I've always loved her beautiful, soft, sexy voice. And loved when she would soul it up! Mmm.

Anyway i thought I would start an appreciation thread for her voice. She truly was amazing!

I found a video on YouTube called "Mary Wilson CAN'T Sing," which is actually a video compilation of some of her strongest vocal moments intended to prove that yes, Mary actually CAN sing and very well.

https://youtu.be/UN48C0_2e0w

I've always said that Diana Ross was the key to the cross over success of the Supremes. But can you imagine if Mary wasn't a Supreme but had her own modest solo career already at Motown? She wouldn't be the background Supreme that wrote a book...she would be a name herself. Probably a more modest success and obviously Berry would have had the groups and Supremes given more attention, but Mary would be one of the classic Motown vocalists, and less of a background story.

Then people could say sentences like "Aretha Franklin, Etta James, Mary Wilson" instead of her name already implied but just being referred to as "The Supremes" or DRATS.

I honestly LOVED "Ooh Child."

And "Early Morning Love." Wow. "You Are the Heart of Me." True I think many of the old Supremes songs aren't really a good fit for her voice [[Reflections and Back in My Arms seem to be a weird fit) but she really belts out some of those later songs where she truly shines. Floy Joy. You Danced My Heart Around the Stars.

Swoon![/QUOTE]

mpn1jco
03-20-2017, 06:25 PM
Both Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong are very talented singers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6TBp7JvoXs

TomatoTom123
03-20-2017, 08:59 PM
I love Mary's voice! She's a great singer. Those deep, smoky, Mary Wells-esque vocals. I LOVE "Floy Joy" and "Automatically Sunshine". And "This Is Why I Believe In You".

arr&bee
03-21-2017, 12:47 AM
I've been in love with mary and her voice since[the tears].

imakicola
03-24-2017, 12:00 PM
I find the end of this to be particularly superb!!

https://youtu.be/15pbfKS4k8k

luke
03-24-2017, 12:43 PM
Can't open it

RanRan79
03-24-2017, 01:39 PM
That smokey tone she has, especially on the ballads, is superb. During the 60s, ballads is where Mary shined. She was great on "Tears", "Baby Don't Go", "Sunset" and "Our Day Will Come". I wasn't impressed by "Pretty Baby" and I've come to just about hate what she did with "Come and Get These Memories". But then the 70s rolled around and I think that was a decade made for her voice, all those sexy, slow cuts. And she could tackle the uptempo very well at that point too because I love her on "Early Morning Love". Had she secured a record deal in the 80s and put out music like "Sleeping In Separate Rooms" I think she would have been a solid artist and able to carve out a discography that stood alone from her work as a Supreme.

sansradio
03-24-2017, 02:14 PM
Six words: "Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You." Incredible! The only version that matters...puts Dionne's to shame.

Guy
03-24-2017, 02:25 PM
I saw Mary perform a whole live set at the old Sunset Junction Street Fair in Silverlake [[Los Angeles). It was 12-15 years ago. I was not impressed. I also saw her in the film "Only The Strong Survive" and questioned her inclusion.

She certainly is a beauty and likely has many other gifts. She is just a competent vocalist.

Guy
03-24-2017, 02:30 PM
Six words: "Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You." Incredible! The only version that matters...puts Dionne's to shame.

Sansradio, you typically have excellent taste in music and performers. Other than wigs, make-up and wardrobe, Mary Wilson cannot do ANYTHING that would put the legendary Dionne Warwick to shame.

RanRan79
03-24-2017, 06:00 PM
Six words: "Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You." Incredible! The only version that matters...puts Dionne's to shame.

Oh she's great on "Teardrops" and "You Are the Heart of Me". I wouldn't say she put Dionne's versions to shame, but great just the same. I certainly prefer Mary's leads on these songs to Dionne's though. Also the live version of "Teardrops" on Dick Cavett [[I think) is excellent. Mary sounds fantastic and Scherrie and Susaye back her up beautifully.

RanRan79
03-24-2017, 06:04 PM
I saw Mary perform a whole live set at the old Sunset Junction Street Fair in Silverlake [[Los Angeles). It was 12-15 years ago. I was not impressed.

Isn't that how it is sometimes? Some artists grab you while others leave you cold. What I love about art is that not everyone is attracted to the same thing. Mary does it for some, but not for others. I'm glad she continues to attract folks to her shows.

sansradio
03-24-2017, 07:32 PM
Sansradio, you typically have excellent taste in music and performers. Other than wigs, make-up and wardrobe, Mary Wilson cannot do ANYTHING that would put the legendary Dionne Warwick to shame.

I knew that I should've qualified my statement. Obviously, Miss Warwick is one of the finest vocalists of all time; I didn't mean to cast aspersions on her legendary prowess. However, her version of "...Teardrops..." leaves me atypically cold. The Sups version is the one that moves me most, and Mary's lead is a main factor for me. Sorry to disappoint you; we'll agree to disagree, I trust!

marv2
03-24-2017, 08:02 PM
One of my favorites from '96:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYbMChbjDeI

144man
03-24-2017, 09:03 PM
When I saw Mary Wilson perform live in the 70s, she was a revelation. I couldn't believe how good she was.

To this day, I don't think any producer has managed to capture the excellence of her voice on record. To me the closest is "Ooh Child" as a soloist and "I Don't Want to Lose You" as a Supreme.

luke
03-24-2017, 09:36 PM
This is great. Thx Marv. When and for who did she record this?

Ozmo
03-24-2017, 09:49 PM
I knew that I should've qualified my statement. Obviously, Miss Warwick is one of the finest vocalists of all time; I didn't mean to cast aspersions on her legendary prowess. However, her version of "...Teardrops..." leaves me atypically cold. The Sups version is the one that moves me most, and Mary's lead is a main factor for me. Sorry to disappoint you; we'll agree to disagree, I trust!

Sansradio, I agree with all you say regarding 'Teardrops'.Dionne Warwick is one of the all time greats but her teaming with Holland Dozier Holland didn't deliver the magic for me. For me,Mary Wilson's lead on the Supremes version is the definitive version.

marv2
03-24-2017, 10:54 PM
This is great. Thx Marv. When and for who did she record this?

You are welcome Luke! She recorded "Turn Around" for Da Bridge Records. It got some radio airplay in NYC back in 1996-97.

sansradio
03-24-2017, 11:06 PM
Thanks for the support, Ozmo.

detmotownguy
03-24-2017, 11:09 PM
Oh she's great on "Teardrops" and "You Are the Heart of Me". I wouldn't say she put Dionne's versions to shame, but great just the same. I certainly prefer Mary's leads on these songs to Dionne's though. Also the live version of "Teardrops" on Dick Cavett [[I think) is excellent. Mary sounds fantastic and Scherrie and Susaye back her up beautifully.

The blend of MSS nearly rivals the harmony of the early Sups. As someone mentioned here, Mary has a very unique and pleasing voice. Her voice added something very special to the sound of The Supremes.

luke
03-24-2017, 11:10 PM
I too agree Sansradio!

detmotownguy
03-24-2017, 11:16 PM
One of my favorites from '96:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYbMChbjDeI

Thanks Marv. I been outta pocket for a while. Catch up soon, take care.

marv2
03-24-2017, 11:24 PM
Thanks Marv. I been outta pocket for a while. Catch up soon, take care.

You're welcome. No problem. Be safe, be happy!

vgalindo
03-24-2017, 11:27 PM
Sansradio, I agree with all you say regarding 'Teardrops'.Dionne Warwick is one of the all time greats but her teaming with Holland Dozier Holland didn't deliver the magic for me. For me,Mary Wilson's lead on the Supremes version is the definitive version.
I agree also. I love Dionne Warwick and she is in my top 5 of favorite female singers. Have all her albums. However I do prefer Mary's version over Warwicks.

marv2
03-24-2017, 11:31 PM
The blend of MSS nearly rivals the harmony of the early Sups. As someone mentioned here, Mary has a very unique and pleasing voice. Her voice added something very special to the sound of The Supremes.

Mary has this unique talent of being able to blend perfectly with whoever her singing partners were. I remember hearing this scratch demo years ago of Mary, along with Scherrie Payne and Cindy Birdsong for the song "This is Why I Believe In You" and was floored at how Mary led them through all that layering of vocals like she was a Baptist church choir director! LOL! I mean Mary did everything from cueing them to ad-libbing on top of Scherrie and Cindy! I wished I could find that and Scherrie's He's My Massa" comedy recording again.

marv2
03-24-2017, 11:32 PM
She is one of the most versatile singers still out there today:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WVaw9_yHDI

detmotownguy
03-25-2017, 12:04 AM
Mary has this unique talent of being able to blend perfectly with whoever her singing partners were. I remember hearing this scratch demo years ago of Mary, along with Scherrie Payne and Cindy Birdsong for the song "This is Why I Believe In You" and was floored at how Mary led them through all that layering of vocals like she was a Baptist church choir director! LOL! I mean Mary did everything from cueing them to ad-libbing on top of Scherrie and Cindy! I wished I could find that and Scherrie's He's My Massa" comedy recording again.

Yes yes yes I remember that sound footage! A perfect example of Mary's skills in leading the group. I bel the producer could also be heard working with the ladies. She is not given enough credit for leading the group. We need to find and save that sound footage for posterity. The hunt begins!

detmotownguy
03-25-2017, 12:06 AM
She is one of the most versatile singers still out there today:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WVaw9_yHDI

Absolute perfection.

RanRan79
03-25-2017, 02:23 AM
To this day, I don't think any producer has managed to capture the excellence of her voice on record. To me the closest is "Ooh Child" as a soloist and "I Don't Want to Lose You" as a Supreme.

Vocally she was good on "Ooh Child" but that arrangement sucked and it didn't compliment her voice at all, IMO. Had the Supremes covered this back in the 70s I bet Mary would have gotten the lead and she would have killed it. I so much prefer Phyllis Hymen's version of "I Don't Want to Lose You" that all the others, including the Supremes version, pales in comparison. Again, Mary is good on it but it doesn't do much for me.

If I were to pick the two studio songs that best showcase just how good Mary is, I would choose "Love Talk" as a soloist and maybe "You Are the Heart of Me" as a Supreme.

RanRan79
03-25-2017, 02:27 AM
The blend of MSS nearly rivals the harmony of the early Sups.

Perhaps when they [[MSS) were at their best, but to be honest, more often than not I find that grouping to sound as if they were competing with one another to be heard as opposed to finding the harmony. That's why it's my least favorite lineup.

RanRan79
03-25-2017, 02:32 AM
Mary has this unique talent of being able to blend perfectly with whoever her singing partners were. I remember hearing this scratch demo years ago of Mary, along with Scherrie Payne and Cindy Birdsong for the song "This is Why I Believe In You" and was floored at how Mary led them through all that layering of vocals like she was a Baptist church choir director! LOL! I mean Mary did everything from cueing them to ad-libbing on top of Scherrie and Cindy! I wished I could find that and Scherrie's He's My Massa" comedy recording again.

Mary was the key to the Supremes' harmony in every lineup. Lead vocal wise, everyone seems to be all over the place with what they think of Mary's singing, but she always gets praised for harmonizing ability. I understand her need to find solo stardom after the Supremes ended, but I wish in between record company auditions and book releases that Mary had forged a secondary career as an in demand background vocalist, like a Cissy Houston. I really am surprised that Mary's post Supremes background discography isn't as extensive as one might imagine with her ear for harmony.

markdtiller
03-25-2017, 06:03 AM
Mary was the key to the Supremes' harmony in every lineup. Lead vocal wise, everyone seems to be all over the place with what they think of Mary's singing, but she always gets praised for harmonizing ability. I understand her need to find solo stardom after the Supremes ended, but I wish in between record company auditions and book releases that Mary had forged a secondary career as an in demand background vocalist, like a Cissy Houston. I really am surprised that Mary's post Supremes background discography isn't as extensive as one might imagine with her ear for harmony.

That's a very good point, which never occurred to me.

Bluebrock
03-25-2017, 01:37 PM
Oh she's great on "Teardrops" and "You Are the Heart of Me". I wouldn't say she put Dionne's versions to shame, but great just the same. I certainly prefer Mary's leads on these songs to Dionne's though. Also the live version of "Teardrops" on Dick Cavett [[I think) is excellent. Mary sounds fantastic and Scherrie and Susaye back her up beautifully.
I have to agree with you here. Whilst Mary is not even in the same vocal hemisphere as Dionne at her peak somehow the Supremes version is superior. Mary's voice is perfectly suited to the song and the production is superior to Dionne's. Strange but true.

Bluebrock
03-25-2017, 01:46 PM
Perhaps when they [[MSS) were at their best, but to be honest, more often than not I find that grouping to sound as if they were competing with one another to be heard as opposed to finding the harmony. That's why it's my least favorite lineup.
I totally agree again. MSS did not look or sound like the traditional Supremes. Vocally both Scherrie and Susaye were of course excellent , but visually this line up was all over the place. They looked awkward and ill rehearsed on stage. As a long term fan i was secretly relieved when they called it a day. They made some great records of course, but to me they were no longer the Supremes.

Roberta75
03-25-2017, 02:05 PM
I totally agree again. MSS did not look or sound like the traditional Supremes. Vocally both Scherrie and Susaye were of course excellent , but visually this line up was all over the place. They looked awkward and ill rehearsed on stage. As a long term fan i was secretly relieved when they called it a day. They made some great records of course, but to me they were no longer the Supremes.

I agree with you dear Bluebrock they looked real awkward and MSS compete for the lead and it was messy and needed rehearsal. My favorite grouping aside from Diana and Mary and Florencce was Jean and Lynda and Mary. I liked Cindy but shes not much of a vocalist.

fondly,

Roberta

RanRan79
03-25-2017, 02:34 PM
I totally agree again. MSS did not look or sound like the traditional Supremes. Vocally both Scherrie and Susaye were of course excellent , but visually this line up was all over the place. They looked awkward and ill rehearsed on stage. As a long term fan i was secretly relieved when they called it a day. They made some great records of course, but to me they were no longer the Supremes.

They did make some great music. But yeah, the live look just doesn't do it for me. Visually they look "funny" because of the height difference between the two smalls and Mary. I never noticed any awkwardness or lack of rehearsal whenever I watch their performances though, but if so, it could be because their hearts weren't in the music. I love disco [[the more soulful and latin beat disco, not the what I call electronic disco like "I Feel Love" or "Lovin, Livin and Givin".) but not every artist is suited to the genre and a lot of artists at the time were moving in that direction because that's what was happening. Mary was a soulful balladress, not a disco queen. Likewise, Susaye should have been doing what Deniece Williams was doing. Scherrie was probably the only one suited to disco. I always thought that Scherrie was disco or Broadway. The Supremes were a disco act by MSS and they had no business in that arena.

RanRan79
03-25-2017, 02:47 PM
I agree with you dear Bluebrock they looked real awkward and MSS compete for the lead and it was messy and needed rehearsal. My favorite grouping aside from Diana and Mary and Florencce was Jean and Lynda and Mary. I liked Cindy but shes not much of a vocalist.

That lead competition is irritating, especially when remembering that the three women were such great singers on their own and should have been able to come together beautifully. I've always gotten the feeling that one of them wasn't much of a group person anyway and was more or less using the group as a stepping stone. And not that I'm knocking that. I think it's a logical step for some. But I think that some of the competition, even when singing background, had a lot to do with future plans. Just my opinion.

As for favorite groupings, Roberta we're on the same page. It doesn't get any better than Florence, Diana and Mary for me, be it live or on record. Record wise my second favorite lineup is a tie between DRATS and JMC. I just love most of the recorded music the two lineups put out. But live, my second fav lineup is JML. They sound like a group that could vocally compete with the other female groups out at the time. IMO single worst decision made regarding the 70s Supremes was Mary's refusal to leave Motown with Jean and Lynda and become another group. The Supremes were always going to be Diana Ross and the three ladies she sang with, while everyone else would be just as Supreme but constantly in the 60's shadow. JML were three gifted and gorgeous, brown skinned women. Their look [[when they weren't wearing DRATS hand me downs and going for the 60s glamour) was as seventies as the Supremes would ever get. They could sing their asses off and dance too. There's was no GOOD reason why the three of them shouldn't have left Motown and the Supremes name behind and joined another record company. Several high profile artists had already left and went on to great success elsewhere. These ladies were good enough to do it too.

144man
03-25-2017, 03:59 PM
One of my favorites from '96:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYbMChbjDeI

That is rather good vocally. Thanks for posting, Marv.

marv2
03-27-2017, 03:28 PM
That is rather good vocally. Thanks for posting, Marv.

You are most welcome.

marv2
03-27-2017, 03:30 PM
Here is another favorite of mine................"Walk the Line".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0nV775E9B0

DJMoch
03-27-2017, 04:47 PM
That's catchy, I really like that. Thanks for the post.

luke
03-27-2017, 07:18 PM
As I posted recently Walk was one of the two fave songs of the audience when Mary performed at BB Kings last month. The place went wild

Bluebrock
03-28-2017, 08:26 AM
That lead competition is irritating, especially when remembering that the three women were such great singers on their own and should have been able to come together beautifully. I've always gotten the feeling that one of them wasn't much of a group person anyway and was more or less using the group as a stepping stone. And not that I'm knocking that. I think it's a logical step for some. But I think that some of the competition, even when singing background, had a lot to do with future plans. Just my opinion.

As for favorite groupings, Roberta we're on the same page. It doesn't get any better than Florence, Diana and Mary for me, be it live or on record. Record wise my second favorite lineup is a tie between DRATS and JMC. I just love most of the recorded music the two lineups put out. But live, my second fav lineup is JML. They sound like a group that could vocally compete with the other female groups out at the time. IMO single worst decision made regarding the 70s Supremes was Mary's refusal to leave Motown with Jean and Lynda and become another group. The Supremes were always going to be Diana Ross and the three ladies she sang with, while everyone else would be just as Supreme but constantly in the 60's shadow. JML were three gifted and gorgeous, brown skinned women. Their look [[when they weren't wearing DRATS hand me downs and going for the 60s glamour) was as seventies as the Supremes would ever get. They could sing their asses off and dance too. There's was no GOOD reason why the three of them shouldn't have left Motown and the Supremes name behind and joined another record company. Several high profile artists had already left and went on to great success elsewhere. These ladies were good enough to do it too.
I have to agree with my dear friend Roberta and yourself. JML had so much potential. Had the internal strife not taken over i firmly believe this line up could have done some great things. Lynda was an exceptional vocalist who could easily have succeeded Jean as lead singer or at least shared more leads. They were also the most visually striking line up. I kind of fell in love with Lynda all over again when i met her recently. She is one classy lady and i have the ultimate respect for her. I also agree that MSS were given material they didn't really believe in, despite many of us fans liking it.

floyjoy678
03-28-2017, 08:38 AM
I agree also. The Jean, Mary and Lynda line up we're exciting live and Lynda had a strong soprano that was much needed to balance out Mary's strong alto, it hadn't been there since Flo left. And I do think Lynda added some spunk and sass back into the group, she reminded me a lot of Florence and I think that was why she worked so well with Mary. But as we all know Jean wanted out by this point and it ended up being very short lived...

RanRan79
03-28-2017, 10:24 AM
I have to agree with my dear friend Roberta and yourself. JML had so much potential. Had the internal strife not taken over i firmly believe this line up could have done some great things. Lynda was an exceptional vocalist who could easily have succeeded Jean as lead singer or at least shared more leads. They were also the most visually striking line up. I kind of fell in love with Lynda all over again when i met her recently. She is one classy lady and i have the ultimate respect for her. I also agree that MSS were given material they didn't really believe in, despite many of us fans liking it.

They looked GREAT together. You're right Bluebrock, they were striking. The original Supremes, and then with the addition of Cindy, and JML were the lineups that looked the most cohesive. The other groupings it always seemed like something was off, visually.

JMC- Jean always looked slightly awkward to me.
MSC- the age differences were obvious sometimes.
MSS- again, that height thing plus at times Mary did appear older than the other girls.

Surrounding Mary with Jean and Lynda was perfect. All three were fine as hell, physically and vocally.

RanRan79
03-28-2017, 10:30 AM
I agree also. The Jean, Mary and Lynda line up we're exciting live and Lynda had a strong soprano that was much needed to balance out Mary's strong alto, it hadn't been there since Flo left. And I do think Lynda added some spunk and sass back into the group, she reminded me a lot of Florence and I think that was why she worked so well with Mary. But as we all know Jean wanted out by this point and it ended up being very short lived...

I think it was Mary who said that Florence gave her stamp of approval for Lynda, and as far as I'm concerned that's the best endorsement a "replacement" Supreme could get. Lynda did add personality to the group, which IMO was something that was missing since the 60s lineups. I've read accusations that Lynda sings too loud or screams. If so, I haven't heard that in any of the performances I've seen of her with Jean and Mary. If she does it now...well that's unfortunate.

Floyjoy do you think Jean would have still wanted out if Mary had agreed to leave Motown? I suspect that move would have gone a long way to smoothing over some of the tension.

floyjoy678
03-28-2017, 11:41 AM
It's tough to say. I do ponder things like that though, as well as if Flo stayed in the Supremes would Diana have stayed longer, what if Mary just accepted Syreeta as Diana's replacement, yadda yadda.....Overall I think Jean would have stayed if they took a break from touring before switching to a different label. From what I understand without having a hit record that wasn't really an option for the group. It seems like touring wasn't really Jean's thing, she was missing several shows during 1972. Also her and Mary clashed over many things so it's hard to say would they have kept their differences aside being at a different record label.

Roberta75
03-28-2017, 12:20 PM
It's tough to say. I do ponder things like that though, as well as if Flo stayed in the Supremes would Diana have stayed longer, what if Mary just accepted Syreeta as Diana's replacement, yadda yadda.....Overall I think Jean would have stayed if they took a break from touring before switching to a different label. From what I understand without having a hit record that wasn't really an option for the group. It seems like touring wasn't really Jean's thing, she was missing several shows during 1972. Also her and Mary clashed over many things so it's hard to say would they have kept their differences aside being at a different record label.

I was told that Jean Terrell loathed Pedro Ferrer as did Mr Gordy and Miss Birdsong and Miss Payne and Miss Lawrence and everyone at Motown.

RanRan79
03-28-2017, 03:00 PM
It's tough to say. I do ponder things like that though, as well as if Flo stayed in the Supremes would Diana have stayed longer, what if Mary just accepted Syreeta as Diana's replacement, yadda yadda.....Overall I think Jean would have stayed if they took a break from touring before switching to a different label. From what I understand without having a hit record that wasn't really an option for the group. It seems like touring wasn't really Jean's thing, she was missing several shows during 1972. Also her and Mary clashed over many things so it's hard to say would they have kept their differences aside being at a different record label.

If you don't mind, I'd like to ponder a couple of those with you. Would Diana have stayed longer if Flo were in the group? I don't think so. I think that story would have played out the same because Diana was bound for solo stardom. I do think she [[and Flo and Mary) would have been happier if they communicated and didn't allow outside forces to interfere with their relationships. Perhaps that would have made those last couple of years bearable for one another.

What if Mary had accepted Syreeta? On one hand, I think it's possible Gordy would have taken a more active role in the group's post Diana future. [[Although I have long suspected that the whole Syreeta replacing Diana at the last minute was a patsy move so that Gordy could wash his hands of the group and have a "legit" reason other than the truth, which was no Diana, no Gordy interest.) There would have also been the likelihood of Stevie producing a bunch of stuff out of the gate and I have to wonder what that would have been like and would it have produced any hits. On the other hand, I read a quote from Cindy once that neither she nor Mary got along with Syreeta. If that's the case then the group might have imploded long before it actually did if Gordy had replaced one singer that could no longer get along with Mary and Cindy with another who couldn't.

RanRan79
03-28-2017, 03:02 PM
I was told that Jean Terrell loathed Pedro Ferrer as did Mr Gordy and Miss Birdsong and Miss Payne and Miss Lawrence and everyone at Motown.

Ms. Roberta I thought Pedro came into the picture after Jean left? Or at least his involvement with the Supremes' business was after she left, no?

Roberta75
03-28-2017, 03:08 PM
Ms. Roberta I thought Pedro came into the picture after Jean left? Or at least his involvement with the Supremes' business was after she left, no?

Oh you are correct RanRan. I apologize, but its true that none of the seventiess Supremes liked him. What decent person could respect a man who beat his wife to a pulp and although Mary is friendly with him know Im told shes still real real uneasy and uncomfortable in his company.

floyjoy678
03-28-2017, 05:47 PM
I'm pretty sure Pedro was in the picture before Jean and Lynda left. I remember reading one of the many reasons why Lynda quit was because she was told at a meeting that Pedro would be managing the Supremes eventually. I don't blame anyone for loathing that basket case. What a joke that man was.

RanRan79
03-28-2017, 07:55 PM
Oh you are correct RanRan. I apologize, but its true that none of the seventiess Supremes liked him. What decent person could respect a man who beat his wife to a pulp and although Mary is friendly with him know Im told shes still real real uneasy and uncomfortable in his company.

Agree 100 percent.

RanRan79
03-28-2017, 07:56 PM
I'm pretty sure Pedro was in the picture before Jean and Lynda left. I remember reading one of the many reasons why Lynda quit was because she was told at a meeting that Pedro would be managing the Supremes eventually. I don't blame anyone for loathing that basket case. What a joke that man was.

Since we're pondering, do you think the group's story would have been different if Pedro wasn't involved?

luke
03-28-2017, 08:55 PM
Cindy Birdsong leaving the first time really began the ultimate demise of the Supremes. Fans had come to love her and then when Jean left I think it was really almost over. Mary Wilson's presence kept it going for awhile longer.

Bluebrock
03-29-2017, 06:47 AM
Cindy Birdsong leaving the first time really began the ultimate demise of the Supremes. Fans had come to love her and then when Jean left I think it was really almost over. Mary Wilson's presence kept it going for awhile longer.
I agree with you about it being more or less the end when Jean left, but less so about Cindy leaving. Lynda was sorely underused and had the ability to breathe new life into what was an ailing group. She and Jean got on very well, and indeed still do. I wish they had left Motown at this time. They could have carried on for a while longer had they done so.

rod_rick
03-29-2017, 11:46 AM
I agree with you about it being more or less the end when Jean left, but less so about Cindy leaving. Lynda was sorely underused and had the ability to breathe new life into what was an ailing group. She and Jean got on very well, and indeed still do. I wish they had left Motown at this time. They could have carried on for a while longer had they done so.

Mary made the right decision to stay with Motown with the name Supremes. All of these ladies use the name in some form to this day. Also Mary would have lost control of the group had they moved on to another company without the name. And whose to say that [[moving to another label without the name) would have breathed any new life into the group. All the other groups that moved to another label in the 70's did so with their group name, the Supremes didn't have that option.

As for Lynda, she was a good replacement and a good vocalist but I preferred Cindy. With Cindy there was never a vocal battle but a vocal blend, that's what a good background does, they blend well with others and when she had a chance at the mic, she did well i.e. Love The oNe Your With come to mind.

Bluebrock
03-29-2017, 01:50 PM
Mary made the right decision to stay with Motown with the name Supremes. All of these ladies use the name in some form to this day. Also Mary would have lost control of the group had they moved on to another company without the name. And whose to say that [[moving to another label without the name) would have breathed any new life into the group. All the other groups that moved to another label in the 70's did so with their group name, the Supremes didn't have that option.

As for Lynda, she was a good replacement and a good vocalist but I preferred Cindy. With Cindy there was never a vocal battle but a vocal blend, that's what a good background does, they blend well with others and when she had a chance at the mic, she did well i.e. Love The oNe Your With come to mind.
We will never know whether or not Mary made the right decision in staying with motown. You have your theories and i have mine.The only notable hit afterwards was I'M gonna let my heart do the walking , so it is quite possible they could have scored more success elsewhere.

RanRan79
03-29-2017, 05:59 PM
Mary made the right decision to stay with Motown with the name Supremes. All of these ladies use the name in some form to this day. Also Mary would have lost control of the group had they moved on to another company without the name. And whose to say that [[moving to another label without the name) would have breathed any new life into the group. All the other groups that moved to another label in the 70's did so with their group name, the Supremes didn't have that option.

I did think about the fact that pretty much all of the other acts that left Motown and still had success were able to keep their name. That's a fair point. But what good did the name Supremes do the group after Jean and Lynda left? There are no guarantees in music, only gambles, and I would have liked to see Mary, Jean and Lynda take that gamble joining another label with a different group name. There's no reason why they couldn't have enjoyed additional hits being as talented as they were. The consolation is that we did get some great stuff with Scherrie and Susaye as the Supremes continued at Motown.

Ozmo
03-29-2017, 06:46 PM
I did think about the fact that pretty much all of the other acts that left Motown and still had success were able to keep their name. That's a fair point. But what good did the name Supremes do the group after Jean and Lynda left? There are no guarantees in music, only gambles, and I would have liked to see Mary, Jean and Lynda take that gamble joining another label with a different group name. There's no reason why they couldn't have enjoyed additional hits being as talented as they were. The consolation is that we did get some great stuff with Scherrie and Susaye as the Supremes continued at Motown.
I think that ultimately Mary made the right decision not to leave Motown and forfeit the Supremes group name. Mary had observed firsthand the obstacles Florence Ballard had faced in attempting to re-establish her career without the use of the Supremes name. Also I think that it would have been very confusing for the public to have the lineup of Mary, Jean and Lynda suddenly presented as something different. What songs would they have performed in concert? How would a record company promote them? I think that there would have been constant references to the Supremes by the media and pressure from the fans to perform Supremes material. Jean and Lynda ultimately realised the value of the Supremes name and recording legacy when they formed the FLOS.

rod_rick
03-29-2017, 07:39 PM
I did think about the fact that pretty much all of the other acts that left Motown and still had success were able to keep their name. That's a fair point. But what good did the name Supremes do the group after Jean and Lynda left? There are no guarantees in music, only gambles, and I would have liked to see Mary, Jean and Lynda take that gamble joining another label with a different group name. There's no reason why they couldn't have enjoyed additional hits being as talented as they were. The consolation is that we did get some great stuff with Scherrie and Susaye as the Supremes continued at Motown.

Not only do I think the group name was an issue but Mary would have lost total control over the group she help created.
Although the Supremes didn't have any major hits late into the 70's the group name kept the group on the tour circuit for a good while which without the group name would have been difficult with the talent but no track record. The Supremes is an established that all the ladies are using to this very day.

RanRan79
03-30-2017, 06:42 PM
I think that ultimately Mary made the right decision not to leave Motown and forfeit the Supremes group name. Mary had observed firsthand the obstacles Florence Ballard had faced in attempting to re-establish her career without the use of the Supremes name. Also I think that it would have been very confusing for the public to have the lineup of Mary, Jean and Lynda suddenly presented as something different. What songs would they have performed in concert? How would a record company promote them? I think that there would have been constant references to the Supremes by the media and pressure from the fans to perform Supremes material. Jean and Lynda ultimately realised the value of the Supremes name and recording legacy when they formed the FLOS.

I don't think the public would have been confused. It's not like we're talking about the original group here. This version with Lynda, with all due respect to them, it's not like they were still a household name. [[Technically they were, but as the original group, not this grouping.) And just because they weren't the Supremes anymore doesn't mean they couldn't perform Supremes songs. Everyone else who has left Motown has included their Motown music in their performances. [[Except Florence. I've never heard Flo doing Supremes music during her solo period, excluding her performance of "Come See About Me" in 1975.) In the end, financially speaking, I probably agree with you that it was the right decision. Musically I just think they were dead when Jean and Lynda left. I wonder why Jean and Lynda didn't think to get a third girl and get their own thing going at another label?

RanRan79
03-30-2017, 06:45 PM
Not only do I think the group name was an issue but Mary would have lost total control over the group she help created.
Although the Supremes didn't have any major hits late into the 70's the group name kept the group on the tour circuit for a good while which without the group name would have been difficult with the talent but no track record. The Supremes is an established that all the ladies are using to this very day.

You make good points Rod Rick.

johnny_raven
03-30-2017, 09:11 PM
I wonder why Jean and Lynda didn't think to get a third girl and get their own thing going at another label?

From October, 1975 ...
12754

luke
03-30-2017, 09:52 PM
Totally agree 'rod rick. And it wasn't just the vocal blend. Cindy represented some continuity and the fans had come to love her. And her upbeat personality came thru

Ozmo
03-30-2017, 09:56 PM
I don't think the public would have been confused. It's not like we're talking about the original group here. This version with Lynda, with all due respect to them, it's not like they were still a household name. [[Technically they were, but as the original group, not this grouping.) And just because they weren't the Supremes anymore doesn't mean they couldn't perform Supremes songs. Everyone else who has left Motown has included their Motown music in their performances. [[Except Florence. I've never heard Flo doing Supremes music during her solo period, excluding her performance of "Come See About Me" in 1975.) In the end, financially speaking, I probably agree with you that it was the right decision. Musically I just think they were dead when Jean and Lynda left. I wonder why Jean and Lynda didn't think to get a third girl and get their own thing going at another label?

Hi RanRan79 you have raised some interesting points and I'll respond purely from my perspective. I have read reports that Jean eventually grew weary of constant comparisons between Diana Ross and herself and grew increasingly reluctant to perform the' Diana era' songs in concert. I can only speculate that if the group took another name and left Motown she would be even less inclined to so. However, I'm sure that concert promoters and the group's management would have been keen to play up the connection between the group and the 'Supremes' name to maximise financial gain. This would in all kiklihood have met with opposition [[and legal action) from Motown.

Regarding Jean and Lynda getting a third girl, I recall an interview with Jean where she stated that prior to securing her solo deal and release of 'I Had To Fall In Love' album there was some talk of Cindy [[following her second exit from the Supremes), Lynda and herself forming a group. For whatever reason this did not eventuate but Jean was offered her solo deal.
while I wouldn't agree that the group was musically dead by the time of the Mary,Scherrie and Cindy lineup, I do concede that the continual comings and goings of members had taken it's toll as well as the fact that there was a long gap of approximately 2 years before any recordings from the MSC grouping was released.

marv2
03-30-2017, 10:43 PM
Yet there were enough Temptations to fill out 3 basketball teams!

http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?13752-Why-So-Many-Temptations&highlight=Harry+McGilberry

marv2
03-30-2017, 10:45 PM
There were far more replacements for the Temptations than there were for the Supremes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_Temptations_band_members

luke
03-30-2017, 11:15 PM
Very true Marv. And Mary was very wise to bring Cindy back for continuity sake at the minimum. Cindy Mary and Scherrie certainly had sparks as a group e.g. Their first album together and that Star Soangles Banner performance.

detmotownguy
03-30-2017, 11:53 PM
Very true Marv. And Mary was very wise to bring Cindy back for continuity sake at the minimum. Cindy Mary and Scherrie certainly had sparks as a group e.g. Their first album together and that Star Soangles Banner performance. I forgot abt the Star performance! Talk abt rising to the occasion. They sure sounded great wo the music.

marv2
03-31-2017, 12:30 AM
Very true Marv. And Mary was very wise to bring Cindy back for continuity sake at the minimum. Cindy Mary and Scherrie certainly had sparks as a group e.g. Their first album together and that Star Soangles Banner performance.

Mary, along with Cindy Birdsong and Scherrie Payne were a great group. I enjoyed their work.

marv2
03-31-2017, 12:38 AM
Here Mary is on American Bandstand with Scherrie Payne and Susaye Greene in 1976:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfLoNrJ5Z6s

RanRan79
03-31-2017, 11:05 AM
Thanks for that Johnny Raven! I wonder what happened? Jean and Lynda being produced by Richard Perry would have been interesting.

RanRan79
03-31-2017, 11:17 AM
Hi RanRan79 you have raised some interesting points and I'll respond purely from my perspective. I have read reports that Jean eventually grew weary of constant comparisons between Diana Ross and herself and grew increasingly reluctant to perform the' Diana era' songs in concert. I can only speculate that if the group took another name and left Motown she would be even less inclined to so. However, I'm sure that concert promoters and the group's management would have been keen to play up the connection between the group and the 'Supremes' name to maximise financial gain. This would in all kiklihood have met with opposition [[and legal action) from Motown.

Regarding Jean and Lynda getting a third girl, I recall an interview with Jean where she stated that prior to securing her solo deal and release of 'I Had To Fall In Love' album there was some talk of Cindy [[following her second exit from the Supremes), Lynda and herself forming a group. For whatever reason this did not eventuate but Jean was offered her solo deal.
while I wouldn't agree that the group was musically dead by the time of the Mary,Scherrie and Cindy lineup, I do concede that the continual comings and goings of members had taken it's toll as well as the fact that there was a long gap of approximately 2 years before any recordings from the MSC grouping was released.

Great points about Jean. Yes, I've heard the same thing, that Jean was tired of being compared to Diana. I think Mary wrote about this and the reluctance to perform the 60s hits. So yeah, chances are that if they had left Motown and formed under another name, Jean wouldn't have wanted to do the music of the 60s lineup.

I would like to think that by 1973 Mary was smart enough not to sign a release that would bar her from using her connection to the Supremes, especially after seeing what happened to Florence. The J5 weren't allowed to keep their name after leaving, but does anyone know if they were barred from capitalizing on their Motown years in promotion?

How I wish the Jean, Lynda, Cindy grouping had materialized. I bet that would have been fantastic, especially if they were being produced by Richard Perry, as the article Johnny posted suggests. But when I say "musically dead" once Jean and Lynda left, I want to clarify that I'm not referencing the quality of the music they did. I still maintain they should not have been a disco act, but they did make a lot of great music. I think publicly they were dead, with "Heart Do the Walking" somehow managing to be the one track that resonated at all with the public. My assertion about them re-grouping somewhere other than Motown is in speculation that they may have continued as a consistent hit making group with access to new producers and a label that may have believed in them.

RanRan79
03-31-2017, 11:25 AM
There were far more replacements for the Temptations than there were for the Supremes

True Marv, which is why I don't think what happened had as much to do with who was in the group as it did with what the group was putting out. The Tempts were consistently making r&b hits well into the 70s with each replacement, even if people didn't really know the names of the replacements [[or care to know). Scherrie joined the group and the group became a disco act. I wonder if things would have been different if the Supremes had been singing the stuff the Three Degrees were doing. I never thought of the Degrees' music being quite as disco [[save a cut or two) as what the Supremes were doing.

Bluebrock
04-04-2017, 07:05 AM
Hi RanRan79 you have raised some interesting points and I'll respond purely from my perspective. I have read reports that Jean eventually grew weary of constant comparisons between Diana Ross and herself and grew increasingly reluctant to perform the' Diana era' songs in concert. I can only speculate that if the group took another name and left Motown she would be even less inclined to so. However, I'm sure that concert promoters and the group's management would have been keen to play up the connection between the group and the 'Supremes' name to maximise financial gain. This would in all kiklihood have met with opposition [[and legal action) from Motown.

Regarding Jean and Lynda getting a third girl, I recall an interview with Jean where she stated that prior to securing her solo deal and release of 'I Had To Fall In Love' album there was some talk of Cindy [[following her second exit from the Supremes), Lynda and herself forming a group. For whatever reason this did not eventuate but Jean was offered her solo deal.
while I wouldn't agree that the group was musically dead by the time of the Mary,Scherrie and Cindy lineup, I do concede that the continual comings and goings of members had taken it's toll as well as the fact that there was a long gap of approximately 2 years before any recordings from the MSC grouping was released.
I so wish this line up could have secured a record deal. Having just returned from a fascinating and thought provoking interview with a certain former Supreme i can confirm that Jean, Lynda and Cindy were interested in forming a new trio but were basically warned off from doing so. Cindy dropped out and Jean and Lynda talked of recruiting a 3rd member before deciding on becoming a duo. These two magnificent ladies got on like a house on fire and stay in touch to this very day. Eventually this idea fizzled out and Jean eventually signed her solo deal. Jean was tired of touring and this led to her retirement for many years. It could all have been so different but certain outside forces proved too strong. I could write a book about this, and indeed that is what i intend to do!!!

imakicola
04-05-2017, 06:08 AM
I don't think the public would have been confused. It's not like we're talking about the original group here. This version with Lynda, with all due respect to them, it's not like they were still a household name. [[Technically they were, but as the original group, not this grouping.) And just because they weren't the Supremes anymore doesn't mean they couldn't perform Supremes songs. Everyone else who has left Motown has included their Motown music in their performances. [[Except Florence. I've never heard Flo doing Supremes music during her solo period, excluding her performance of "Come See About Me" in 1975.) In the end, financially speaking, I probably agree with you that it was the right decision. Musically I just think they were dead when Jean and Lynda left. I wonder why Jean and Lynda didn't think to get a third girl and get their own thing going at another label?

Come see About Me? Was that the song Flo shook the tambourine to at magic mountain???

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 12:06 PM
I so wish this line up could have secured a record deal. Having just returned from a fascinating and thought provoking interview with a certain former Supreme i can confirm that Jean, Lynda and Cindy were interested in forming a new trio but were basically warned off from doing so. Cindy dropped out and Jean and Lynda talked of recruiting a 3rd member before deciding on becoming a duo. These two magnificent ladies got on like a house on fire and stay in touch to this very day. Eventually this idea fizzled out and Jean eventually signed her solo deal. Jean was tired of touring and this led to her retirement for many years. It could all have been so different but certain outside forces proved too strong. I could write a book about this, and indeed that is what i intend to do!!!

I hate that the new group never materialized. I wonder why and who would put a stop to such a thing? I also hate that Jean didn't stick with the solo career. I actually love her solo album as a first effort. It bugs me that as solo artists [[aside from Diana) we just didn't get enough music from the solo Supremes. There always seems to be large gaps in their recordings and releases.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 12:07 PM
Come see About Me? Was that the song Flo shook the tambourine to at magic mountain???

No, she performed "Come See About Me" during her last solo performance in 1975 during a benefit concert. She did that as an encore to "I Am Woman".

imakicola
04-05-2017, 01:06 PM
Gotcha. Did anyone know what the magic mountain song was? :)!!!

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 03:12 PM
Gotcha. Did anyone know what the magic mountain song was? :)!!!

I believe Mary says it was "Love Train".

imakicola
04-26-2017, 12:32 PM
I so wish this line up could have secured a record deal. Having just returned from a fascinating and thought provoking interview with a certain former Supreme i can confirm that Jean, Lynda and Cindy were interested in forming a new trio but were basically warned off from doing so. Cindy dropped out and Jean and Lynda talked of recruiting a 3rd member before deciding on becoming a duo. These two magnificent ladies got on like a house on fire and stay in touch to this very day. Eventually this idea fizzled out and Jean eventually signed her solo deal. Jean was tired of touring and this led to her retirement for many years. It could all have been so different but certain outside forces proved too strong. I could write a book about this, and indeed that is what i intend to do!!!

Got on till this. Sunday? I thought there was some drama regarding FLOS

marv2
04-27-2017, 11:03 AM
Got on till this. Sunday? I thought there was some drama regarding FLOS

There was and it is probably best not to discuss it because people have clearly shown me that they cannot take the truth without a chaser LOL!

midnightman
04-27-2017, 08:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8h148mBg-M

marv2
04-27-2017, 09:02 PM
This was just so hot! Mary on the Arsenio Hall Show:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_OisN_v3XA

detmotownguy
04-28-2017, 12:11 AM
This was just so hot! Mary on the Arsenio Hall Show:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_OisN_v3XA
Made my day. This is another example Mary's ability! Damn she looks good.

luke
04-28-2017, 08:46 AM
Every inch the star!

marv2
04-28-2017, 09:28 AM
Every inch the star!

Arsenio tried to get her to give in a kiss......she wouldn't do it! She's kissed me though! LOL!!!

luke
04-28-2017, 10:19 AM
Lucky guy!!

marv2
04-28-2017, 10:27 AM
Lucky guy!!

Most definitely Luke!

RanRan79
04-28-2017, 02:59 PM
I never knew Mary was on Arsenio! I don't care for the song but she sounds fantastic and looks beautiful. The audience loves her!

Weslley Francisco
03-30-2018, 11:32 PM
I found a video on YouTube called "Mary Wilson CAN'T Sing," which is actually a video compilation of some of her strongest vocal moments intended to prove that yes, Mary actually CAN sing and very well.

https://youtu.be/UN48C0_2e0w




https://youtu.be/ZZ69t8LEQdk

marv2
03-31-2018, 12:12 AM
I love how this video starts off with one of my favorites, "We Should Be Closer Together". Mary is great singer and one of the most beautiful. The most beautiful in my opinion.

marv2
03-31-2018, 12:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cg9sALutGE

captainjames
03-31-2018, 04:55 PM
I believe Stevie Wonder and Florence Ballard gave their approval with this lineup. Its a shame we never got enough recordings with them. Mary felt comfortable with the safety net of Motown but, Motown was not catching them anymore. The name Supreme was associated with what they were not about anymore so I would have made that move.