Originals 'suspicion' alternative take

[MIKEW-UK]

I searched the forum, can't see this has been posted before.....

Interesting alt take with a lot less orchestration and vocals right up front in all their glory from The Originals...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VonrYY89Xic&list=RDVonrYY89Xic#t=13

[bradburger]

Mike,

I think this version has been posted or mentioned before, although the source used might not have been as clean as in this video.

This was cut in 1970 IIRC, with C.P Spencer as the producer.

I always liked the original [[no pun intended!) from 1966, but loved this later interpretation too.

Anyway, thanks for reminding us about it again!

Cheers

Paul

[MIKEW-UK]

Hi Paul, Thanks for the feedback, I was unaware that CP Spencer was allowed to produce anything at Motown, although I know he did produce once he left Motown. I know he highly rated the tune, because he spoke highly of it when it came up in the interview with Bill Randle I recently posted on the forum. To me, it is quintessential Motown and has the magic that The Isleys performed with This Old Heart Of Mine. I find it baffling that it never got a release when the Originals were with Motown... Cheers. Mike

[robb_k]

12552
Almost no one knows the best version of this song. It's NOT the "1966" version to which you referred. It was recorded in 1965, and was chosen by Tom DePierro and myself to be included in the second "From The Vaults LP in 1979. It was also the first version of that song that came to The UK. For whatever reason, an alternate take, the one that shows up all over You-Tube, was booted, and became the "popular" version. And, more bad luck, the version officially released by Motown, on CD was also that [[to my taste) inferior version.

That 1970 version is WAYYYYY too modern for my taste. I don't like the instrumentation at all.

[TomatoTom123]

Almost no one knows the best version of this song. It's NOT the "1966" version to which you referred. It was recorded in 1965, and was chosen by Tom DePierro and myself to be included in the second "From The Vaults LP in 1979. It was also the first version of that song that came to The UK. For whatever reason, an alternate take, the one that shows up all over You-Tube, was booted, and became the "popular" version. And, more bad luck, the version officially released by Motown, on CD was also that [[to my taste) inferior version.

Robb, I need to hear this version!!! I cannot find the From The Vaults LP that you refer to...? I only found this one [[https://www.discogs.com/Various-From-The-Vaults/release/5299832) and I assume this is the first volume? Wasn't the version that was eventually released in the UK [[the bootleg one) sped up or something? And wasn't one of these bootlegs released as crediting "The Detroit Prophets"...?

So many questions ;)

Also, the 1965 recording does not seem to be listed on the [[brilliant) Don't Forget The Motorcity website?

[robb_k]

Robb, I need to hear this version!!! I cannot find the From The Vaults LP that you refer to...? I only found this one [[https://www.discogs.com/Various-From-The-Vaults/release/5299832) and I assume this is the first volume? Wasn't the version that was eventually released in the UK [[the bootleg one) sped up or something? And wasn't one of these bootlegs released as crediting "The Detroit Prophets"...?
Also, the 1965 recording does not seem to be listed on the [[brilliant) Don't Forget The Motorcity website?
12553
Only 1 "From The Vaults" LP was released, as the project was discontinued due to poor sales. Although several songs we had selected for release WERE released later on two ther Vault LPs in 1981 and 1982. But that song remained unknown to the public until 1980, when a British friend of mine taped it off me, and played it for a friend in The UK. It was passed around, and Bootlegged. Yes, its group WAS called The Detroit Prophets. The bootlegs were a sped-up version, you say? Then The Brits and most Motown fans around The World have never heard what I think is the best version.

Don't Forget The Motorcity is very thorough. So, maybe my 1965 alternate take was really 1966. Did that website show 2 different takes for 1966? Actually, I think I've heard 3 different original Motown takes [[not including sped-up versions). I think there were at least 10 or so of my version [[not sped up) pressed up in The UK. But, maybe NS DJs only used the sped-up version?

[TomatoTom123]

DAMN! This is confusing...

I do know that there is only one recording listed on the DFTMC site:
Suspicion [[Brian Holland-Lamont Dozier-Edward Holland Jr) published Jobete
alternate title: Baby Have Mercy On Me
The Originals; recorded Hitsville, completed 14-Apr-66 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier ; [v1]

It does say "[v1]" which indicates that there are other versions but none are listed?

There was a 1966 acetate and then an official release on a 1998 CD:
25-May-66 [acetate]; 45 [[M): CCMN 0979-NHDD
23-Mar-98; CD [[M): Debutante 530 814 2 This Is Northern Soul! Volume 2 [UK]

[TomatoTom123]

Here's one version:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdBmfPg90ic&app=desktop

Now, to me, this one seems slow and a bit weird...

[TomatoTom123]

This is the version I am familiar with:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQPAQCto7WY

[TomatoTom123]

This one is new to me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIf3EB7-I_0

Is this the version you mean, Robb?

[soulwally]

DAMN! This is confusing...

I do know that there is only one recording listed on the DFTMC site:
Suspicion [[Brian Holland-Lamont Dozier-Edward Holland Jr) published Jobete
alternate title: Baby Have Mercy On Me
The Originals; recorded Hitsville, completed 14-Apr-66 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier ; [v1]

It does say "[v1]" which indicates that there are other versions but none are listed?

There was a 1966 acetate and then an official release on a 1998 CD:
25-May-66 [acetate]; 45 [[M): CCMN 0979-NHDD
23-Mar-98; CD [[M): Debutante 530 814 2 This Is Northern Soul! Volume 2 [UK]
In the UK there was only one volume of From The Vaults, vinyl album, released in 1979. Somebody correct me, but it was about the first official release of previously unreleased material in the UK [[apart from the bits and bobs on budget LPs in the early 70s). Suspicion wasn't among the tracks.
I believe Suspicion, usually called Baby Have Mercy On Me, and never released in the 60s, did the rounds on cassette. I didn't hear it until the Debutante CD release in 1998 [[the version at #8). This remains my preferred version.
The version at #9 is the one on the Very Best of the Originals, released on CD in 1999, with a different CP Spencer lead vocal. However, it has a cleaner sound than #8. This is the version by the so-called Prophets, no doubt a bootleg.
As Bradburger says at #2, the later recording has been discussed before.

[bradsupremes]

I always assumed there were two versions. Version 1 from 1966 and then Version 2 from 1971. Version 1 had alternate vocals as it used the same instrumental track.

[mysterysinger]

The version at post 8 is my favourite one [[and the one I'm most familiar with). As stated this is the one from the Debutante release and I think the one at post 10 is a speeded up version of the same track [[on bootleg release). The one robb_K refers to could well be the Debutante one since that seems to be the least used on CD.

[robb_k]

12626
The version I found first and that we chose for "From The Vaults" was that of post #9. I heard that hundreds of times before I heard any other version [[so THAT became for me the "original" and "correct" version). The post #10 Advance press-up [[bootleg for DJs) was that same version, sped up a bit. Whenever I heard the version that has been on the internet in several different posts for many years now, it always sounds "wrong" to me. But, I realise that both are very, very good, and really about equal in quality.

[keith_hughes]

I'm a bit late to this party, hope the following may be helpful.

The version at post #1 is the 1971 version without the strings, which were added on June 25 1971. It's not in DFTMC because I have never discovered a legit source for it, and by legit I mean including acetates. I guess the pic at post #1 is legit, though I must say I have never seen a Jobete Publishing acetate with the words "[[Alt take)" in the title before! The completed version [[i.e. with strings) did the rounds back in the days of cassette tape, and may be on a boot CD for all I know.

The version at post #9 is the 1966 version with the original vocal. That version was pressed up on an acetate, and a rundown of that disc [[with very audible scratch!) appeared on a boot CD called "Motortown Uncovered Vol. 2". When the compilers of "This Is Northern Soul! Volume 2" made their choice between the three versions available, they picked the final version - presumably they thought it the best. The chief detectable difference between the versions is the order in which the singer sings the "Suspicion in your heart" / "Suspicion in your mind" lines in the choruses. All three versions use the same backing track: I'm not sure about the group vocals, haven't listened to them closely enough.

[bradburger]

Thanks for that info Keith.

I've always disagreed with RobbK, in that to me the one with the original 1966 vocal take [[as included on 'This Is Northern Soul! Volume 2' - YT video no.2) is the superior version to the one he discovered [[the alternate mix and vocal take - YT video 3).

The latter is not such a good mix and lacks punch, whilst C.P Spencer's vocal is not as heartfelt & passionate as the original 1966 vocal take.

Btw Keith, was the alternate vocal take mix [[RobbK's discovery and included on the 'Very Best of The Originals CD) mixed after 1966?

I ask this because to my ears it doesn't sound like a mix from 1966, but one from a few years later.

[[I can't remember if the 'Very Best of' CD had recording details and the disc is not to hand, so I'm not sure if the alternate lead vocal was re-cut at a later date also).

Cheers

Paul

[TomatoTom123]

I'm a bit late to this party, hope the following may be helpful.

The version at post #1 is the 1971 version without the strings, which were added on June 25 1971. It's not in DFTMC because I have never discovered a legit source for it, and by legit I mean including acetates. I guess the pic at post #1 is legit, though I must say I have never seen a Jobete Publishing acetate with the words "[[Alt take)" in the title before! The completed version [[i.e. with strings) did the rounds back in the days of cassette tape, and may be on a boot CD for all I know.

The version at post #9 is the 1966 version with the original vocal. That version was pressed up on an acetate, and a rundown of that disc [[with very audible scratch!) appeared on a boot CD called "Motortown Uncovered Vol. 2". When the compilers of "This Is Northern Soul! Volume 2" made their choice between the three versions available, they picked the final version - presumably they thought it the best. The chief detectable difference between the versions is the order in which the singer sings the "Suspicion in your heart" / "Suspicion in your mind" lines in the choruses. All three versions use the same backing track: I'm not sure about the group vocals, haven't listened to them closely enough.

Thanks for the info Keith! I agree, the one at post #9 is the best for me - it's the one all over iTunes and the one I'm used to :)

[bradburger]

Thanks for that info Keith! I agree, the one at post #9 is the best for me - it's the one all over iTunes and the one I'm used to :)

So another like for the alternate vocal version!

Post #8 has the original 1966 mix and vocal - the one that was included on 'This is Northern Soul', and the one I think is the best! ;)

But whatever your prefered version, it's a cracking tune, and one another one in which you ask yourself, "Oh why it was never released at the time"!

Cheers

Paul

[mysterysinger]

I much prefer the lead vocal on the version from "This Is Northern Soul" Volume 2. I think it is more pleasing to the ear. Having said that, almost anything by The Originals is fine by me.