the supremes promises kept

[daviddh]

i was listening to the supremes Promises Kept sessions. I was struck by some really strong songs and vocal .especially My Poor Baby, I'll Let Him Know that I Love Him , Tears Left Over , Cant Get you Out Of My Mind, Life Beats, And I thought You Loved Me, All I Need.
any thoughts on this album, .... with some new fresh mixes I think the album could have done well. but then again. I do think its a good collection of songs

[REDHOT]

I agree David,i just loved I'll Let Him Know That I Love Him.

[Bluebrock]

i was listening to the supremes Promises Kept sessions. I was struck by some really strong songs and vocal .especially My Poor Baby, I'll Let Him Know that I Love Him , Tears Left Over , Cant Get you Out Of My Mind, Life Beats, And I thought You Loved Me, All I Need.
any thoughts on this album, .... with some new fresh mixes I think the album could have done well. but then again. I do think its a good collection of songs
I agree David. It does not make any commercial sense that this album was canned yet the Jimmy Webb album which should have never seen the light of day somehow got a release. Still scratching my head at this one.

[lakedistrictlad1]

'Oh, my poor baby' is one of my favourite Supremes tracks of all. It simply sparkles.

As Bluebrock says, who thought this material wasn't worth releasing over the Webb session? Nuts!

[lakeside]

I think with a little more polish, this would have been a fairly solid album. The Webb album, with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir in the background and the dead flower on the cover, should have been left on the shelf.

[daviddh]

the Jimmy Webb album was a good growth album but ,for me, it was to laid back, to much Jean and not enough harmony and the added Xtra backing vocals ,The Blossoms, in my opinion , NOT needed. I would have preferred, Promises Kept.
although I did like I Keep It Hid and When Can Brown Begin. which I would have released s a single with all three sharing leads. just my opinion

[sup_fan]

i'm guessing here but i think we also need to remember what was going on when these occurred

in fall 1971, the group was still relatively hot. however their lps sold poorly [[Right On did pretty well, making the top 40 but only in the 20s). Their huge smash of Stoned Love was a year before. Nathan Jones was and is an amazing track, but in the US it only went Top 20. Then Touch tanked. I'm guessing that the powers at be thought "ok - let's see if we need to change things up." just like when Nothing But Heartaches missed the top 10, the girls were opened up to other producers.

Since the group had some recent chart strength, i think the company tried a little of this, a little of that, to see what would catch. When they did Floy Joy, that seemed to be the strongest option and it was released in late 71. as it started to do well, they went into the studio in early 72 to do the lp.

by summer 72, things were different. Cindy had left and i think that hurt the group more than people give credit for. Jean was becoming more frustrated with the company and pushing back. I think the company was thinking "ok we've tried Frank Wilson stuff, Smokey stuff, the duets with the 4 Tops. been ok and had a few hits. but the group is having troubles both on the charts and internally. let's stop wasting money on them and push other artists." so they half heartedly went along with Jimmy Webb project but didn't care about it. same with Stevie. probably thought, let's finish out these contracts and move on

just my thoughts

[sup_fan]

as for the Promises Kept sessions, i too agree there are many strong tracks. i do think though that there are too many covers. i wonder if motown had groups constantly recording covers so that they could drop a couple onto each lp project to help boost sales. almost like just keeping an inventory in the vault of popular tunes to use whenever but not necessarily all with one project

i've made up my own iTunes playlist for my proposed Promises Kept lp

Side A
Can't Get You Out Of My Mind
Tears Left Over
Make It With You
Take Your Dreams Back
I Ain't That Easy To Love
it's Too Late

Side B
Still Water
Oh My Poor Baby
Never Can Say Goodbye
All I Need
I'll Let Him Know I Love Him
And I Thought You Loved me

[TomatoTom123]

I really am not familiar with this unreleased album so I just picked a random song to listen to [["Take Your Dreams Back") and absolutely loved it! Even on that one track the LP seems better than the Jimmy Webb one... lol

[TomatoTom123]

i'm guessing here but i think we also need to remember what was going on when these occurred

in fall 1971, the group was still relatively hot. however their lps sold poorly [[Right On did pretty well, making the top 40 but only in the 20s). Their huge smash of Stoned Love was a year before. Nathan Jones was and is an amazing track, but in the US it only went Top 20. Then Touch tanked. I'm guessing that the powers at be thought "ok - let's see if we need to change things up." just like when Nothing But Heartaches missed the top 10, the girls were opened up to other producers.

Since the group had some recent chart strength, i think the company tried a little of this, a little of that, to see what would catch. When they did Floy Joy, that seemed to be the strongest option and it was released in late 71. as it started to do well, they went into the studio in early 72 to do the lp.

by summer 72, things were different. Cindy had left and i think that hurt the group more than people give credit for. Jean was becoming more frustrated with the company and pushing back. I think the company was thinking "ok we've tried Frank Wilson stuff, Smokey stuff, the duets with the 4 Tops. been ok and had a few hits. but the group is having troubles both on the charts and internally. let's stop wasting money on them and push other artists." so they half heartedly went along with Jimmy Webb project but didn't care about it.

Yes, good points! Any ideas why Motown went with Jimmy Webb to produce The Supremes? Seems kinda random... like something that Motown wouldn't normally do.

[Laserdk]

Yes, good points! Any ideas why Motown went with Jimmy Webb to produce The Supremes? Seems kinda random... like something that Motown wouldn't normally do.

At the time, the group were giving interviews saying they wanted to try something different and Motown agreed. Remember though, whilst they were recording with Jimmy Webb they were also recording concurrently with Motown producers Stevie Wonder, Joe Porter and Frank Wilson [[again).

Also, the "Promises Kept" album wasn't dropped in favour of the Jimmy Webb album but the "Floy Joy" album. And at the time the album was being planned Motown were even looking at the possible inclusion of earlier recorded tracks like "The Day Will Come Between Sunday And Monday", "Stepping On A Dream", "Life Beats" and, possibly, others from the "Right On" sessions.

Ivor

[daviddh]

all good points ,plus Motown was moving everyone to LA and I am sure the supremes got left behind in any ways. but I do like the PK tracks better than JW.

[daviddh]

does Still Water Love seem unfinished?? like the first verse is missing????

[sup_fan]

yes i think Still Water is unfinished. the fade out seems misplaced too. sort of fades in the middle of things

The jimmy webb album was the idea of then-manager Wayne Weisbart. it definitely seems like sort of a last-ditched effort to spark interest in the group. Interestingly enough, Jimmy is well known as a pop producer, not R&B. At this same time their show shifted dramatically to more of the cabaret-style DRATS show. But much of their early 70s success was in the black market and traditional r&b segment. seems like they should've gone into that area more prominently. like what they did with Stevie

so here's a question - what if after Floy Joy sessions they went straight to Bad Weather and the stevie project? would that have been more successful?

[Bluebrock]

yes i think Still Water is unfinished. the fade out seems misplaced too. sort of fades in the middle of things

The jimmy webb album was the idea of then-manager Wayne Weisbart. it definitely seems like sort of a last-ditched effort to spark interest in the group. Interestingly enough, Jimmy is well known as a pop producer, not R&B. At this same time their show shifted dramatically to more of the cabaret-style DRATS show. But much of their early 70s success was in the black market and traditional r&b segment. seems like they should've gone into that area more prominently. like what they did with Stevie

so here's a question - what if after Floy Joy sessions they went straight to Bad Weather and the stevie project? would that have been more successful?
I suspect so sup fan. Bad Weather should have followed Floy Joy and a complete album produced by Stevie could have reversed their fortunes. Sadly by this time the Jimmy Webb album and the internal strife within the group had all but killed them off, and by the time Bad Weather appeared it was too little too late despite being a fine piece of music,

[TomatoTom123]

At the time, the group were giving interviews saying they wanted to try something different and Motown agreed. Remember though, whilst they were recording with Jimmy Webb they were also recording concurrently with Motown producers Stevie Wonder, Joe Porter and Frank Wilson [[again).

Also, the "Promises Kept" album wasn't dropped in favour of the Jimmy Webb album but the "Floy Joy" album. And at the time the album was being planned Motown were even looking at the possible inclusion of earlier recorded tracks like "The Day Will Come Between Sunday And Monday", "Stepping On A Dream", "Life Beats" and, possibly, others from the "Right On" sessions.

Ivor

Thank you Ivor! :)

[sup_fan]

i do think there are quite a few tracks that haven't been "officially" released that are more interesting and exciting than the 19 or so we've received in the 70s Anthology and This Is The Story. I have a bootleg cd with them but the sound quality isn't great and so i didn't put into the playlist. but frankly i think these are some buried gems and would have made great additions to the PK lp

Loneliness Is a Lonely Feeling
Traveling light
Body and Soul
Can't you hear me knocking
You only miss me when you need me
that's how much you made me love you
Stepping on a dream


So i'd do:

Can't Get you out of my mind
Tears left over
Make it with you
Take Your Dreams Back
You Only Miss Me When you Need me
Stepping on a dream

Oh My Poor Baby
Never Can Say Goodbye
All I need
I'll Have to let him know i love him
Loneliness is a lonely feeling
And i thought you loved me


i don't know the recording dates but if something like Body and Soul was ready, it would have fit better on New Ways that Na Na Hey Hey, which would have fit nicely on Right On.

[BayouMotownMan]

Let's examine a few things and go back in time.

Based on the catalog number, the Promises Kept lp would have been issued in the fall of 1971 after Dynamite. At this same time the Supremes were flooded onto the American public.

True the group made an impressive comeback with Jean. But in less than 18 months the group had six albums in record bins, not to mention several from the Diana Ross era still in production [[Greatest Hits, 1, 2 and 3, Farewell). This was simply too much.

I'll always say that New Ways would have been a Top 20 lp had Magnificent 7 not been issued at the same time. I feel River Deep kept Stoned Love from going No. 1. Then when Touch came out, Return Of Mag 7 came out and distracted from that lp as well. In all honestly the first album of duets didn't sell well, so it was a surprise that a second was issued. But then, a THIRD duets lp came out just a few months after the second flop.

Motown was just flooding the market with The Supremes and it was detrimental to the group. I think the Promises Kept lp was canceled because it was more of the same. It's strong performances but the lp would have been another hodge podge of songs by various producers without a direction.

Smokey was flapping back in Detroit as everyone moved out west, so Berry gave him the Supremes project. It did put the group back on track with public but as everyone else said another concept Motown lp would have fared better than the Jimmy Webb stuff, which had the Supremes sounding more like Carpenters.

As flooded as we were in late 1971 with Supremes lps, consider that in late 1974 the only Supremes lps in production was GH 1 & 2 and Anthology.

[daviddh]

I used to have those songs and a few other but the tape broke. ah well. isn't Traveling Light one of the Steve Wonder songs?? along with Soft Days. I really like the song, That's How much You Made Me Love You.
there was also a song called Remote Control ,that I think was produced by Frank Wilson

[BayouMotownMan]

I remember Remote Control. Jean did a woody-woodpecker vocal run in the middle of it. LOL

[sup_fan]

I believe the third Stevie track was Ill Wait A Lifetime. Rumor has it that much of the Stevie Presents Syreeta lp was material most likely intended for the Sups. Tracks like I'm going left, universal sound of the world and Cuz we've ended now as lovers

[marv2]

I am still waiting to hear their version of the Delfonics' "Didn't I Blow Your Mind". It was talked about several times over the years but has yet to surface anywhere.

[bradsupremes]

I am still waiting to hear their version of the Delfonics' "Didn't I Blow Your Mind". It was talked about several times over the years but has yet to surface anywhere.

I asked Mary if she remembers recording it and she said "We recorded that?! I don't remember that at all." I'm sure all of the recordings run together that you don't remember particular songs with the exception of Martha Reeves who remembers every song.

The well hasn't run dry on the 70's Supremes.

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=bradsupremes;372674]I asked Mary if she remembers recording it and she said "We recorded that?! I don't remember that at all." I'm sure all of the recordings run together that you don't remember particular songs with the exception of Martha Reeves who remembers every song.
It is understandable that Mary doesn't recall all the songs they recorded during this period. Diana also has difficulty in recalling ever recording certain songs. There are sufficient songs left in the vault to warrant a 70's lost and found double set, but i am not very hopeful of it ever seeing the light of day, but we can live in hope.

[Jimi LaLumia]

as to Never Can Say Goodbye being a cover, as I recall Jean brought Clifton Davis to Motown with the hope of recording Never, but it was snatched away for the Jackson 5; imagine if The Supremes got to record it first with that original arrangement? I didn't care for the musical arrangement that The Supemes eventually wound up with, it sounded thrown together to me

[Laserdk]

Let's examine a few things and go back in time.

Based on the catalog number, the Promises Kept lp would have been issued in the fall of 1971 after Dynamite. At this same time the Supremes were flooded onto the American public.

True the group made an impressive comeback with Jean. But in less than 18 months the group had six albums in record bins, not to mention several from the Diana Ross era still in production [[Greatest Hits, 1, 2 and 3, Farewell). This was simply too much.

I'll always say that New Ways would have been a Top 20 lp had Magnificent 7 not been issued at the same time. I feel River Deep kept Stoned Love from going No. 1. Then when Touch came out, Return Of Mag 7 came out and distracted from that lp as well. In all honestly the first album of duets didn't sell well, so it was a surprise that a second was issued. But then, a THIRD duets lp came out just a few months after the second flop.

Motown was just flooding the market with The Supremes and it was detrimental to the group. I think the Promises Kept lp was canceled because it was more of the same. It's strong performances but the lp would have been another hodge podge of songs by various producers without a direction.

Smokey was flapping back in Detroit as everyone moved out west, so Berry gave him the Supremes project. It did put the group back on track with public but as everyone else said another concept Motown lp would have fared better than the Jimmy Webb stuff, which had the Supremes sounding more like Carpenters.

As flooded as we were in late 1971 with Supremes lps, consider that in late 1974 the only Supremes lps in production was GH 1 & 2 and Anthology.

I think the impetus of doing a follow-up to "The Magnificent 7" album was its UK and European success as, here in the UK, it reached number 6 on the pop LP chart making it the group's most successful post-Ross album here and remained on catalogue for quite a few years.

Ivor

[Laserdk]

I asked Mary if she remembers recording it and she said "We recorded that?! I don't remember that at all." I'm sure all of the recordings run together that you don't remember particular songs with the exception of Martha Reeves who remembers every song.

The well hasn't run dry on the 70's Supremes.

It certainly hasn't as there's still loads of unreleased from the "Right On" sessions, including those tracks with Mary on lead, and goodness knows how many alternate/unedited versions like the multi-lead version of "Up the Ladder To The Roof" with the extra verse. Also, don't forget the outtake from the "Floy Joy" album, namely "Just My Daydream", the same song Aretha cut many years later for her "Jump To It" album.

Ivor

[Laserdk]

I used to have those songs and a few other but the tape broke. ah well. isn't Traveling Light one of the Steve Wonder songs?? along with Soft Days. I really like the song, That's How much You Made Me Love You.
there was also a song called Remote Control ,that I think was produced by Frank Wilson

davidh,

I didn't realise that "Travelin' Light" was one of the Stevie produced tracks but thinking of it, I suppose, it does sound like something he would have produced at that time. I was only aware of "Soft Days" and "I'll Wait A Lifetime".

Ivor

[sup_fan]

It could be that Mary doesn't remember Don't I Blow Your Mind because it only got jean vocals. Maybe backgrounds never laid down or perhaps they used andantes.

[sansradio]

as to Never Can Say Goodbye being a cover, as I recall Jean brought Clifton Webb to Motown with the hope of recording Never, but it was snatched away for the Jackson 5; imagine if The Supremes got to record it first with that original arrangement? I didn't care for the musical arrangement that The Supemes eventually wound up with, it sounded thrown together to me

Not to split hairs, Jimi, but don't you mean Clifton Davis? I didn't know Clifton Webb could be that funky! LOL!

[marv2]

I asked Mary if she remembers recording it and she said "We recorded that?! I don't remember that at all." I'm sure all of the recordings run together that you don't remember particular songs with the exception of Martha Reeves who remembers every song.

The well hasn't run dry on the 70's Supremes.

Martha can sit down and rattle off even the B-sides she recorded! The song I am referring to would have been from 1970-71. It was a huge hit for the Delfonics in early '70.

[Bluebrock]

It could be that Mary doesn't remember Don't I Blow Your Mind because it only got jean vocals. Maybe backgrounds never laid down or perhaps they used andantes.
It is only recently that i had it confirmed to me that Jean recorded many of the Supremes songs without Mary and Cindy, much like Diana did in the late 60's which would account for Mary not recalling a few songs.

[daviddh]

I agree , there were times that there was way to much product out at one time. I always thought the Mag Seven should have been held back until 1971, after Stoned Love had peaked. I think .as I recall a fan club had stated Together We Can Make Such Sweet Music, was going to be a single. but then the Spinners got a the single release. but I always thought Shine On Me was a cool track. I was surprised to see Dynamite get a release especially since it didn't even get a single. strange.
sad to see the group fall as they did but it wasn't just the Supremes that were hurting at this time,many were jumping ship

[kenneth]

Not to split hairs, Jimi, but don't you mean Clifton Davis? I didn't know Clifton Webb could be that funky! LOL!

That's a good one!

12548

12549

[Jimi LaLumia]

oh dear I must have had Turner Movie Classics on when I wrote my post...but my point remains the same..it could have been a massive hit for the Jeanpremes

[kenneth]

@Jimi, And the Fox channel shows his old Mr. Belvedere movies which are hilarious!

[DJMoch]

I really like the sessions of Promises Kept, definitely a shame that some form of it didn't end up being released at the time, it would have been interesting to see how well it would have done, if at all. Listening to the complete list of songs, I don't really know which songs I would have chucked out to make a say typical 12-song album. I really like their strangely funky uptempo cover of Eleanor Rigby [[talk about unusual!) as well as Take Your Love Back. I too found Still Water a bit lacking; definitely feels like something is missing there, as others have said, it feels incomplete.

In the meantime, I constructed my own album cover to use on the iTunes album I made from all the Promises Kept tracks, calling it "The Complete Sessions," including the Motown logo and its unused catalog number of 746. I used that iconic pic of Jean, Mary and Cindy with the black background, in black turtleneck sweaters and their amazing afros. It's such an amazingly dramatic photo, it worked well. Here's the cover I made [[hope the link works, first time I've inserted an image)...

12717

[daviddh]

DJMOCH, great work.
in my opinion, instead of working on albums, they should have concentrated on singles, then went with putting together an album,kind of what they did with Love Child

[kenneth]

I like threads like this. Back to the Jimmy Webb album, although it's inconsistent I still think it contains Jean's greatest performance, "5:30 Plane." I sometimes feel her voice lacks emotion but on that one she's an actress almost as much as she's a singer.

[robb_k]

That's a good one!

12548


12721
Ha! Ha! I almost wet my pants and pulled a stomach muscle laughing at the thought of Clifton Webb gyrating to the beat while singing a funky Soul song!!! ;););)

That would have been a million times funnier than June Clever speaking in Ebonics in "Airplane". Well, Motown signed Irene Ryan, Paul Peterson and Bobby Breen to sing Soul music. So, why not Clifton Webb? :cool:

[cleoharvey]

I really like the sessions of Promises Kept, definitely a shame that some form of it didn't end up being released at the time, it would have been interesting to see how well it would have done, if at all. Listening to the complete list of songs, I don't really know which songs I would have chucked out to make a say typical 12-song album. I really like their strangely funky uptempo cover of Eleanor Rigby [[talk about unusual!) as well as Take Your Love Back. I too found Still Water a bit lacking; definitely feels like something is missing there, as others have said, it feels incomplete.

In the meantime, I constructed my own album cover to use on the iTunes album I made from all the Promises Kept tracks, calling it "The Complete Sessions," including the Motown logo and its unused catalog number of 746. I used that iconic pic of Jean, Mary and Cindy with the black background, in black turtleneck sweaters and their amazing afros. It's such an amazingly dramatic photo, it worked well. Here's the cover I made [[hope the link works, first time I've inserted an image)...

12717

I am fascinated by the fact that you said you did an Itunes album of Promises Kept. I have been looking for it but cannot find it.

[daviddh]

the songs are on the 70s Anthology and This Is The Story box set.

[longtimefan]

Here are the tracks, cleoharvey. I think that I have them correct. :-)

TRACKS RECORDED FOR PROMISES KEPT
1. "Oh My Poor Baby" [[Gloria Jones, Pam Sawyer) - 2:48
2. "Make It with You" [[David Gates) - 3:19
3. "I'll Let Him Know I Love Him" [[Jones, Sawyer) - 4:02
4. "Never Can Say Goodbye" [[Clifton Davis) - 3:18
5. "Walk with Me, Talk with Me Darling" [[John Glover, Clay McMurray, James Dean) - 2:33
Tracks 1 - 5 Released on "The 70s Anthology"

6. "Tears Left Over" [[Leonard Caston, Jr., Nickolas Ashford) - 3:37
7. "Eleanor Rigby" [[John Lennon, Paul McCartney) - 2:30
8. "I Ain't Got the Love of the One I Love" [[Nick Zesses, Dino Fekaris) - 3:17
9. "Can't Get You Out of My Mind" [[Ashford, Valerie Simpson) - 2:59
10. "Take a Look Inside" [[McMurray, Brenda Wane, Steve Bowden) - 3:36
11. "Still Water [[Love)" [[Wilson, Smokey Robinson) - 2:56
12. "Take Your Dreams Back" [[Cosby, Dean, Glover) - 3:18
13. "I Don't Want to Own You [[I Just Want to Love You)" [[R. Dean Taylor, Mike Valvano) - 2:55
14. "Chained to Yesterday" [[Beatrice Verdi, Sawyer, Cosby) - 3:08
15. "If I Were Your Woman" [[Jones, Sawyer, McMurray) - 2:46
16. "I Ain't That Easy to Lose" [[Jones, Sawyer) - 3:51
17. "And I Thought You Loved Me" [[Zesses, Fekaris) - 4:18
18. "It's Too Late" [[Carole King, Toni Stern) - 4:27
Tracks 6 - 18 Released on "This Is the Story"

19. "All I Need"
Track 19 Released on "Motown Sings Motown Treasures"

[greg jones]

At the time, the group were giving interviews saying they wanted to try something different and Motown agreed. Remember though, whilst they were recording with Jimmy Webb they were also recording concurrently with Motown producers Stevie Wonder, Joe Porter and Frank Wilson [[again).

Also, the "Promises Kept" album wasn't dropped in favour of the Jimmy Webb album but the "Floy Joy" album. And at the time the album was being planned Motown were even looking at the possible inclusion of earlier recorded tracks like "The Day Will Come Between Sunday And Monday", "Stepping On A Dream", "Life Beats" and, possibly, others from the "Right On" sessions.

Ivor

I didn't know that the Supremes recorded with Joe Porter. That was probably in LA, huh? Does any one what tracks they recorded with him ?

[PeaceNHarmony]

Most likely posted before but here's a YT link from 3/18/17:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5sEQeh5MqI

[Weslley Francisco]

I believe the third Stevie track was Ill Wait A Lifetime. Rumor has it that much of the Stevie Presents Syreeta lp was material most likely intended for the Sups. Tracks like I'm going left, universal sound of the world and Cuz we've ended now as lovers

Does anyone have a copy of "I'll Wait A Lifetime"?