Any thoughts on last night's debate

[ralpht]

I count it Hillary !...The Donald bupkis.

[soulster]

Trump thought he could win on style, but he wound up being rude and very un-presidential. I think he forgot that he was talking to the whole world instead of his little insular rally groups.

The fact-checkers [[http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-presidential-debates/31-fact-checks-first-presidential-debate-n655156) had a field-day with everything he said, too!

The one thing I wish Clinton would have done was hit him harder on things like his stance on Mexicans and Muslims, his gaffs toward women, gays, and Blacks.

I wish Lester Holt, or Clinton would have asked Trump why he asked Obama for a birth certificate, but not Ted Cruz, who really wasn't born in the U.S., and I wish Clinton would have made it clear how insulting that was to Blacks, and a whole lot of other people.

I wish Clinton would have mentioned Trumps continuous courting of the White Nationalists and other hate groups.

Clinton won this hands down! Even the Russians think Clinton won.

[RossHolloway]

The debate went pretty much how I expected it to go. Clinton was polished and articulated her positions with specific detail and she looked presidential. Trump evaded answering questions asked because he's clueless on the issues, and could not speak with much detail on anything. He has a nasty disposition and repeatedly interrupted Clinton during her time and interjected little comments through out. How or why this race is close is beyond me, Trump has shown himself to be ill informed, incompetent and boorish. I would hate to work for Trump in any of his businesses and I can't imagine him being our president. God help us all if he wins.

[arr&bee]

Trump was in over his head going against hillary.

[marv2]

It was Hillary as the winner. I was surprised at how much Donald Trump sounded like a kid that got caught doing something naughty and then tries to compare it with things others have done. I noticed how he would quickly change the subject when asked about his tax returns, housing discrimination lawsuits etc,etc.

What was all that snorting about? Loser.

[arr&bee]

it was hillary as the winner. I was surprised at how much donald trump sounded like a kid that got caught doing something naughty and then tries to compare it with things others have done. I noticed how he would quickly change the subject when asked about his tax returns, housing discrimination lawsuits etc,etc.

What was all that snorting about? Loser.i think he stopped by grady's before he got there.

[marv2]

i think he stopped by grady's before he got there.

He must have because the dude was snorting harder than a pig in a pen. LOL!

[arr&bee]

I think that was last night's special.

[soulster]

Trump was in over his head going against hillary.

I wish Joe Biden would have run. He would have made Trump walk out in shame.

[blackguy69]

I thought Hillary was great. Donald had the chance to challenge but didn't. How many softballs were thrown to him and he didn't take advantage. He was just too unprepared.

I gotta ask, was it hot in that room because Donald was chugging water like he was in the middle of the Mojave desert

[lakeside]

Humpty Trumpty was obviously out of his league with Hillary. He was ill prepared and it showed how clueless he really is. He didn't answer questions because he couldn't. Very unprepared.....not sure anyone could prepare this moron. When he said his 'temperament' was one of his best features [[paraphrasing)....I almost needed a Depends!

[arr&bee]

i wish joe biden would have run. He would have made trump walk out in shame.if joe had taken trump down to gradys they both would've been runnin,not for the whitehouse,but the outhouse.

[soulster]

I thought Hillary was great. Donald had the chance to challenge but didn't. How many softballs were thrown to him and he didn't take advantage. He was just too unprepared.


But in the alternate universe of the republican/conservative/far-right/tea party/right-wing talk radio/alt-right, Trump won hands down......Hahahahahahahahahahah!

[jobeterob]

We are building our own wall if that racist sexist spoiled brat wins.

She kicked his ass last night. That must burn him to have to take it from a woman.

[soulster]

Yeah! he was beaten by a girl!

[arr&bee]

Having trump in the whitehouse would be the same as bringing back andrew jackson,hillary will win but it's gonna be close.

[lakeside]

Interesting article from the Washington Post

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/more-bigotry-from-the-trump-brigade/ar-BBwybg6

[arr&bee]

What did malcolm tell black folks more than fifty years ago?

[jobeterob]

Interesting article from the Washington Post

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/more-bigotry-from-the-trump-brigade/ar-BBwybg6

That is exactly the problem - that Trump encourages bigotry, racism, mistreating women. He makes Romney and several Bushes look saintly.

[Roberta75]

Hillary Clinton cleaned Donald Trumps clock. Secrettary Clinton was rational and presidential and calm and smart and intelligent. Ive always believed that Donald Trump is mentally ill and he proved my belief on Monday night. A dangerous and sexist and bigoted and small minded man who should never get within 100 miles of the oval office.

[Roberta75]

The double standards and hypocricys real apparant to me.

[TomatoTom123]

Hillary Clinton cleaned Donald Trumps clock. Secrettary Clinton was rational and presidential and calm and smart and intelligent. Ive always believed that Donald Trump is mentally ill and he proved my belief on Monday night. A dangerous and sexist and bigoted and small minded man who should never get within 100 miles of the oval office.

Agreed

"I've always believed that Donald Trump is mentally ill" - LOL!

[jobeterob]

Imagine this. We've finally found ONE item in ALL THESE YEARS on which we ALL AGREE!

Hell, I imagine every artist ever signed to Motown agrees. Even Diana and Mary agree!

Ralph might be on bended knee giving thanks, crossing himself and saying hail Marys.

We all will be if Trump loses.

[ralpht]

Wait a minute, Rob. Are you telling me I'm not dreaming?

[Roberta75]

Wait a minute, Rob. Are you telling me I'm not dreaming?

LOLOLOLOLOLOL the insane and dangerous Trump has brought ud all together,

[jobeterob]

No dreams!

We Are Family on this one

What's frightening to the rest of the world is that so many Americans seem to be hornswaggled by Trump. And then there are those deplorables that come to his rallies. One of them said "they can't deplort me, I was born here"

No I did not make a spelling mistake there

[soulster]

Hillary Clinton cleaned Donald Trumps clock. Secrettary Clinton was rational and presidential and calm and smart and intelligent. Ive always believed that Donald Trump is mentally ill and he proved my belief on Monday night. A dangerous and sexist and bigoted and small minded man who should never get within 100 miles of the oval office.

Donald Trump isn't mentally ill, at least in the way that he doesn't know what he's doing. Saying that is like letting him off the hook for all the things he's said and done. Trump is mentally fit as anyone. He's just a miserable glob of molecules.

I do believe he has ADHD, though. He's a narcissist and a sociopath, and being a pathological liar is part of that. There is also no doubt that he is a racist, too.

[soulster]

Trump is allegedly hell-bent on making Bill Clinton's infidelity, and Hillary's not divorcing him an issue, and his advisors are desperately begging him not to because they know how much Trump himself has done in his past, let alone his closest advisors like Rudy Giuliani and Newt Gingrich. Lawrence O'Donnell had a segment about it on his show tonight.

[ralpht]

What about Howard Dean's cocaine allegation? The man is a doctor and probably knows what he is talking about. Even if Trump wasn't doing coke the night of the debate, I think he was definitely on some sort of drug considering his rambling and body posture. And isn't old Rudy G a piece of work.

[marv2]

What about Howard Dean's cocaine allegation? The man is a doctor and probably knows what he is talking about. Even if Trump wasn't doing coke the night of the debate, I think he was definitely on some sort of drug considering his rambling and body posture. And isn't old Rudy G a piece of work.

Oh the Donald has done coke. Impossible for me to believe otherwise. Rudy Guiliani is a sinking ship that is desperately trying to cling on to relevancy!

[ralpht]

Not sure who I despise more, Marv. Donald or Rudy....

[Roberta75]

Trump is allegedly hell-bent on making Bill Clinton's infidelity, and Hillary's not divorcing him an issue, and his advisors are desperately begging him not to because they know how much Trump himself has done in his past, let alone his closest advisors like Rudy Giuliani and Newt Gingrich. Lawrence O'Donnell had a segment about it on his show tonight.

If he does it will drive more and more women voters to Hillary. Trumps disgusting.

[Roberta75]

Check this out there first time doing this.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/09/29/dont-vote-for-donald-trump-editorial-board-editorials-debates/91295020/

[soulster]

What about Howard Dean's cocaine allegation? The man is a doctor and probably knows what he is talking about. Even if Trump wasn't doing coke the night of the debate, I think he was definitely on some sort of drug considering his rambling and body posture. And isn't old Rudy G a piece of work. That has been talked about quite a bit that he is using some kind of illicit substance. It is possible that he has been taking anti-anxiety meds to keep him calm. It has also been theorized that he also has Hyperactive Attention Deficit Disorder because he has the inability to focus.

[soulster]

If he does it will drive more and more women voters to Hillary. Trumps disgusting. I think it is more likely that instead of some women voting for Hillary, they will just stay home.

[marv2]

Not sure who I despise more, Marv. Donald or Rudy....

Well I met Donald in 1999 when came up to my job to take my boss to a Yankees game. I also lived under Rudy Giuliani's reign of terror from 1994 -2001...........I dislike them both very much!

11738 Ms Rudy.

[jobeterob]

I think it is more likely that instead of some women voting for Hillary, they will just stay home.

Then they shouldn't be surprised when he taxes them by the pound.

[Roberta75]

I think it is more likely that instead of some women voting for Hillary, they will just stay home.

Well im doing phone banks for Latina Women for Hillary and were getting great results. His comments about Miss Universe from Venezuelas weight does not sit real well with Hispanic women.

The man is a mysoginistic and sexist and racist pig.

[TomatoTom123]

Well im doing phone banks for Latina Women for Hillary and were getting great results. His comments about Miss Universe from Venezuelas weight does not sit real well with Hispanic women.

The man is a mysoginistic and sexist and racist pig.

I think he's very nice

LOL!

Not even sure how a man like he can even get this close to the presidency! Because he is absolutely loaded I guess he can fund his own campaign and almost BUY the presidency

His latest tweet:
"For those few people knocking me for tweeting at three o'clock in the morning, at least you know I will be there, awake, to answer the call!"

How dumb is that?

[[For an idiot he has pretty good grammar, LOL)

[soulster]

Here's another one for ya!

http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/donald-trump-sexist-sexism-howard-stern-interview-women-vagina-expensive/

[soulster]

Also, can you imagine the President of the United States the person with the button and codes to the nuclear arsenal, waking up at four in the morning manically tweeting insults and lies about some woman's body image? What in the hell does his wife and daughter think of this?

I know we have a couple of Trump supporters on this forum who are staying silent, but I really have to wonder how they can in good conscience vote for this guy, knowing all that we know about him.

[arr&bee]

I think that ol donald[greased a few palms]to get the nomination.

[Roberta75]

Also, can you imagine the President of the United States the person with the button and codes to the nuclear arsenal, waking up at four in the morning manically tweeting insults and lies about some woman's body image? What in the hell does his wife and daughter think of this?

I know we have a couple of Trump supporters on this forum who are staying silent, but I really have to wonder how they can in good conscience vote for this guy, knowing all that we know about him.

I have to wonder how ANYONE in good conscience vote for Dangerous Donald. Hes unfit to be in any public office let alone be President of these here United States.

[TomatoTom123]

I have to wonder how ANYONE in good conscience vote for Dangerous Donald. Hes unfit to be in any public office let alone be President of these here United States.

"Dangerous Donald" - LOL

I'm not saying that Hilary is perfect, but she has to be better than that orange-haired buffoon of a man

[sophisticated_soul]

As I was watching the debate I drifted into a vision/fantasy/day dream type state . . . so the Donald finally snaps under Hillary's barrage of honesty, he loses it completely and rises to physically attack her. But as he does Hillary rises and coldcocks him and Trump goes down like the bag of shit he is. Bill Clinton sitting in the front row, winces at the memory of the time he was cold cocked by Hillary, then smiles. And it's Hillary in a landslide!;)

[arr&bee]

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa...or hillary by knockout!

[sophisticated_soul]

You don't mess with Knockout Clinton!;)

[edafan]

SNL skit last night was great.

In fact, the ONLY highlights of this presidential season has been SNL

edafan

[lakeside]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gPP26HLuNSU/V73SNdHM3UI/AAAAAAABWGw/diKiUICwpuQqRJjREyW2vLF5DriMXYayQCJoC/14064231_10153740484471821_5467974361829085411_n.j pg?imgmax=660

[TomatoTom123]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gPP26HLuNSU/V73SNdHM3UI/AAAAAAABWGw/diKiUICwpuQqRJjREyW2vLF5DriMXYayQCJoC/14064231_10153740484471821_5467974361829085411_n.j pg?imgmax=660

LOLOLOLOL
And a dollop of mayonnaise on top!

[sophisticated_soul]

Excellent picture, Lakeside! Thank You for sharing.:)

[lakeside]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/with-white-supremacists-drawn-into-political-mainstream-david-duke-declares-victory/ar-BBwNn7p?li=BBnbcA1

Not so strange bedfellows........don't tell me this isn't Trumps BFF!

[soulster]

As I was watching the debate I drifted into a vision/fantasy/day dream type state . . . so the Donald finally snaps under Hillary's barrage of honesty, he loses it completely and rises to physically attack her. ... And it's Hillary in a landslide!;)
I wish that would happen on worldwide TV!

[soulster]

Rudy Giuliani, Trump's apologist, is trying to say that [[paraphrase) "we all have a past with infidelity". Well, if he's going to make excuses for Trump, Gingrich, and himself, that should extend to Bill Clinton, except not on republican/conservative/Trump world. I'm waiting to see how many of the phony christian conservatives who back Trump contort themselves trying to not come off as hypocritical.

[TomatoTom123]

Apparently Trump is a "genius" for being able to avoid paying taxes on such a large scale for so long...

http://www.people.com/article/rudy-giuliani-defends-donald-trump-tax-evasion

[lakeside]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/giuliani-says-trump-better-us-woman-200010631--abc-news-topstories.html

This should win over most women voters! Rudy Tudy is such an idiot. He can't get over the fact Trumpty Dumpty is such a 'genius'.....well, Rudy....you're sure the hell not....and believe me, neither is Trumpty nor his henchmen.

[TomatoTom123]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/giuliani-says-trump-better-us-woman-200010631--abc-news-topstories.html

This should win over most women voters! Rudy Tudy is such an idiot. He can't get over the fact Trumpty Dumpty is such a 'genius'.....well, Rudy....you're sure the hell not....and believe me, neither is Trumpty nor his henchmen.

"Trumpty Dumpty" - LOL!

I don't think the story ended too well for that nursery rhyme character...

[lakeside]

"Trumpty Dumpty" - LOL!

I don't think the story ended too well for that nursery rhyme character...

Trumpty Dumpty sat on a wall
Trumpty Dumpty had a great fall
All the racist, homophobes and misogynist
couldn't put their Trumpty Dumpty back together again

[TomatoTom123]

Trumpty Dumpty sat on a wall
Trumpty Dumpty had a great fall
All the racist, homophobes and misogynist
couldn't put their Trumpty Dumpty back together again

LOL - fell off a wall!
Too good, too good

[lakeside]

http://originpost.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Rapper-Nas-Posts-‘Art’-Showing-Urinal-Mouth-Donald-Trump-on-Instagram.jpg

[soulster]

I live in such a red state and county that I am happy to have a safe haven to express my opinion about republicans/conservatives/Trump supporters. Not many places you can do that and not get trolled. The republicans/conservatives/Trump supporters are on a worldwide mission to troll everywhere on the internet. Imagine not even being able to discuss politics, race, or religion with a good friend or a woman you're dating because you don't want to risk an argument or break-up.


And, the amazing thing is that no matter how repugnant his comments are, there are scores of people who say they will vote for him. This morning he says that our soldiers who commit suicide "just couldn't handle it". How in the hell can anyone vote for this guy? He pays no taxes, says he will relieve the burden for the people, but his tax plan is Reaganomics and W. Bush on steroids.

In a way, I understand why some people are voting for Trump.

It will be the last time a majority of Whites will ever be able to vote for their own.

It will be the last time older people will be able to vote for someone of their generation.

It will be the last time many older people will vote.

It may be the last time Republicans have an opportunity to vote as a party.

It is a chance for white nationalists to finally get someone like-minded into office.

It may be the last chance for those with more traditional male values to vote for a like-minded person to be in office.

It may be the last chance for big business to get a champion for them to get into office.


Let's not forget about down-ballot candidates, either. Electing the president is not enough. You have to consider candidates on the federal, state, and local ballot too. And, as partisan as this sounds: aren't you sick of conservatives and their mindset? Aren't you sick of killers who run amok with guns they shouldn't have, but allowed by willy-nilly gun laws literally written by the NRA? Aren't you sick of constant attacks on women and LBGT? Aren't you sick of constant brutality and deaths at the hands of police? Aren't you sick of legislators trying to restrict or eliminate your voting rights? Aren't you sick of religious types trying to impose their brand of beliefs on you? Aren't you sick of judges letting rapists off easy? Ask yourselves these questions when you go into the voting booth or mail in your ballot.

[lakeside]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct4QFSZWEAAGH4v.jpg:large

[TomatoTom123]

I live in such a red state and county that I am happy to have a safe haven to express my opinion about republicans/conservatives/Trump supporters. Not many places you can do that and not get trolled. The republicans/conservatives/Trump supporters are on a worldwide mission to troll everywhere on the internet. Imagine not even being able to discuss politics, race, or religion with a good friend or a woman you're dating because you don't want to risk an argument or break-up.


And, the amazing thing is that no matter how repugnant his comments are, there are scores of people who say they will vote for him. This morning he says that our soldiers who commit suicide "just couldn't handle it". How in the hell can anyone vote for this guy? He pays no taxes, says he will relieve the burden for the people, but his tax plan is Reaganomics and W. Bush on steroids.

In a way, I understand why some people are voting for Trump.

It will be the last time a majority of Whites will ever be able to vote for their own.

It will be the last time older people will be able to vote for someone of their generation.

It will be the last time many older people will vote.

It may be the last time Republicans have an opportunity to vote as a party.

It is a chance for white nationalists to finally get someone like-minded into office.

It may be the last chance for those with more traditional male values to vote for a like-minded person to be in office.

It may be the last chance for big business to get a champion for them to get into office.


Let's not forget about down-ballot candidates, either. Electing the president is not enough. You have to consider candidates on the federal, state, and local ballot too. And, as partisan as this sounds: aren't you sick of conservatives and their mindset? Aren't you sick of killers who run amok with guns they shouldn't have, but allowed by willy-nilly gun laws literally written by the NRA? Aren't you sick of constant attacks on women and LBGT? Aren't you sick of constant brutality and deaths at the hands of police? Aren't you sick of legislators trying to restrict or eliminate your voting rights? Aren't you sick of religious types trying to impose their brand of beliefs on you? Aren't you sick of judges letting rapists off easy? Ask yourselves these questions when you go into the voting booth or mail in your ballot.

Soulster, you should run Hilary's campaign!

I just kept saying "YES!!" in my head for every question you asked!!

Completely agree, You couldn't have said it better

[soulster]

Soulster, you should run Hilary's campaign!

I just kept saying "YES!!" in my head for every question you asked!!

Completely agree, You couldn't have said it better

And the maddening thing is, Hillary's people don't bring any of this up! Whenever I watch the news or see one of their supporters, I yell at the TV wondering why they don't say the things we are thinking? Why aren't they using any of those points to sway voters? Why don't they ever go for the kill?

[TomatoTom123]

And the maddening thing is, Hillary's people don't bring any of this up! Whenever I watch the news or see one of their supporters, I yell at the TV wondering why they don't say the things we are thinking? Why aren't they using any of those points to sway voters? Why don't they ever go for the kill?

Very frustrating!

All this politics...
I never thought I would be discussing the presidential race on a forum about soul music from Detroit, LOL!

[144man]

Very frustrating!

All this politics...
I never thought I would be discussing the presidential race on a forum about soul music from Detroit, LOL!

That's what the clubhouse is for...anything we want to talk about [[within reason), that doesn't fit anywhere else.

If Donald Trump had made his statement on tax avoidance as a UK politician, that would be enough to lose him the election.

[soulster]

Very frustrating!

All this politics...
I never thought I would be discussing the presidential race on a forum about soul music from Detroit, LOL!
This place has always discussed politics to a degree. But, politics has always been part of the Black community. Think about it: soul music, Detroit, Black people = politics! Politics affects Black people the most. Just look at Flint.


If Donald Trump had made his statement on tax avoidance as a UK politician, that would be enough to lose him the election.

And it would have disqualified him in any previous U.S. election, too. As I said in the previous post: this is a lot of groups' last chance to get one of their own in the White House. That's why they want Trump to win so badly, despite all of his faults.

As I also stated before: the White population is gradually dwindling nationwide. Soon, there will be no clear majority, and they know it. It's why they have been rallying against immigration from non-caucasian countries, why the white nationalists, otherwise known as white supremacists have been spreading fear of a "demise" of the White race, and why republicans, who are overwhelmingly White in the U.S., have been trying hard to restrict voting laws. In the state of California, that majority is gone. It's no guess as to why the most of the deep southern U.S. states are dominated exclusively by republicans: the majority of the nations' Blacks live there.

There's another factor that ties into all of this: age. A lot of older people look around and see a world that is unrecognizable to them. Many lost touch in the 60s and have been disenfranchised ever since. For the WWI and WWII generation, it was Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan who kept the promise of maintaining the world they were familiar and comfortable with. Today, that WWII generation, the Korean and Viet Nam generation also see the world changing into something they aren't comfortable with, and nothing brought that into focus more than President Barack Obama. He was the personification of a changing United States. Donald Trump represents a past world. Lets not forget that a woman in charge is just too much for a lot of people. There are a lot of people who still believe that a woman's place is in the home, barefoot and pregnant, and waiting on the husband. There are a lot of misogynists out there, and Trump is one of them. To him, women belong in beauty pageants, and are only worthy if they can be trophy wives.

[TomatoTom123]

This place has always discussed politics to a degree. But, politics has always been part of the Black community. Think about it: soul music, Detroit, Black people = politics! Politics affects Black people the most.

Of course, of course
I always forget how soul music is interconnected with racial and political matters [[with me being white and having never even been to Detroit, LOL)


The White population is gradually dwindling nationwide. Soon, there will be no clear majority, and they know it. It's why they have been rallying against immigration from non-caucasian countries, why the white nationalists, otherwise known as white supremacists have been spreading fear of a "demise" of the White race, and why republicans, who are overwhelmingly White in the U.S., have been trying hard to restrict voting laws. In the state of California, that majority is gone. It's no guess as to why the most of the deep southern U.S. states are dominated exclusively by republicans: the majority of the nations' Blacks live there.

There's another factor that ties into all of this: age. A lot of older people look around and see a world that is unrecognizable to them. Many lost touch in the 60s and have been disenfranchised ever since. For the WWI and WWII generation, it was Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan who kept the promise of maintaining the world they were familiar and comfortable with. Today, that WWII generation, the Korean and Viet Nam generation also see the world changing into something they aren't comfortable with, and nothing brought that into focus more than President Barack Obama. He was the personification of a changing United States. Donald Trump represents a past world. Lets not forget that a woman in charge is just too much for a lot of people. There are a lot of people who still believe that a woman's place is in the home, barefoot and pregnant, and waiting on the husband. There are a lot of misogynists out there, and Trump is one of them. To him, women belong in beauty pageants, and are only worthy if they can be trophy wives.

Soulster, you make a very interesting point, one I hadn't even really thought about. I forget that there are some people who genuinely think a woman could/should not be president. A female president straight after a Black one is probably a bit too much to handle for some people!

In essence, Trump's support comes from old, white racists and misogynists. Shocker!!! Lol

[lakeside]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-recorded-having-extremely-lewd-conversation-about-women-in-2005/ar-BBx95Fw

This should really win over all the women voters. The Orange Anus finally speaks from his heart....skip the political bullshit.....this is the REAL MAN. He might have just won the Misogynist Of The Year Award!

[TomatoTom123]

Who's PUMPED for tonight's debate!!? LOL

Shame it's on at about 2 o'clock in the morning here in the UK, I would definitely watch it otherwise!

[Roberta75]

Pass this on to your Trump and GOP friends who attend the churches of far right preachers.

[soulster]

I just got home, so i'll have to watch the repeat later on. I've got MSNBC on right now, and i'm surprised from what i'm hearing that Trump did so bad. I understand he totally lost it, but did make a play for the evangelical christians. I guess that's the only way he thinks he'll get votes now. We'll see. To gauge what that side thinks, I should look in on Fox news.

[Roberta75]

He acted like an insane person and he looked insane. Hes a danger to our country and should not be elected. Im with her.

[robb_k]

He acted like an insane person and he looked insane. Hes a danger to our country and should not be elected. Im with her.

The US's government actions over the past 30+ years is embarrassing enough. Having such a negative character as Donald Trump win The US presidency, could result in an international embarrassment from which USA might never be able to recover. It's just unfathomable to me that someone of his ilk could ever get as far as winning the nomination of a major political party. It's bad enough that The Democrats do NOT represent the large bulk of their constituents. But, The Republicans are making a mockery of the so-called "democratic political process".

[TomatoTom123]

The US's government actions over the past 30+ years is embarrassing enough. Having such a negative character as Donald Trump win The US presidency, could result in an international embarrassment from which USA might never be able to recover. It's just unfathomable to me that someone of his ilk could ever get as far as winning the nomination of a major political party. It's bad enough that The Democrats do NOT represent the large bulk of their constituents. But, The Republicans are making a mockery of the so-called "democratic political process".

Hey Robb, can I ask, do you have a vote in the election? And if you do will you vote? :)

[soulster]

But, The Republicans are making a mockery of the so-called "democratic political process".

I don't think it's so much the republicans as it is Trump himself.

One thing is clear: Trump is setting the republican party for some kind of major stunt next month if and when he loses the election. Not only does he have some kind of media business in the works, I have a theory that he may set up his own party, effectively damaging the republican party, and causing nothing but chaos. That move would take the step that the tea-party should have, create an actual party. This Trump party would consist of all of the disenfranchised white people who stuck by him, and all of the deplorables. Then, he would use, say, his own network to further his message. Steve Bannon and Roger Ailes must be licking their chops for such an opportunity. Ailes gets to rival Fox, and Bannon gets to have a worldwide platform to further his Leninist philosophy to burn down the U.S. government. To make it more worrisome is that Trump's bromance Vladimir Putin can use it as a U.S. propaganda outlet, further endangering our philosophy.

Again, it's just a theory of mine, but I think i'm probably not too far off the mark.

Remember those billboards we used to see of W. Bush and the caption "Do you miss me now?"? We could start seeing those with Barack Obama on them instead, because trump isn't going to go quietly. If he doesn't get his way, he'll burn the house down. That's what a spoiled little narcissistic megalomaniac does.

I still can't imagine how anyone can rationally vote for him and think he'll actually change anything for the better.

[marv2]

One thing I am happy about is Trump has single-handedly destroyed the GOP! Obama must feel vindicated right about now. They spent years obstructing any progress his administration could have made for the people of this country and now they are paying for it. They have not been interested in governing this country. They have only been interested in having power and special interests.

[westgrandboulevard]

Here in the UK, my impression of Donald Trump is based on news headlines.

Donald Trump seems to be making all the empty noise he can, simply to court attention.

Mr Trump is known to be very wealthy. He appears to assume that everyone will be impressed by that, but wealth brings with it great responsibility, and money has never cared who owns it.

It has not looked good from the very start. On a superficial level, it's his appearance. Without opening his mouth, Donal Trump looks bad. Superficial appearance it may be, but essential for a Presidential candidate.

When Mr Trump does speak, it's as if there is a distinctly unpleasant, bully-boy brother of Liberace on the platform.

Detractors of Hilary Clinton say she has many faults, but she seems to be taking the high ground. She does not appear to be retaliating to Donald Trump by employing the same derogatory tones as he. This, at least, encourages the voters to seriously consider who is the most able candidate to be President.

Unfortunately, it may be that Mrs Clinton will win the Presidency not because she is seen to be so good, but because Mr Trump is seen to be so bad.

In that event, making it through against a formidable [[for all the wrong reasons) opponent to become President could be the making of Hilary Clinton.

If I were an American voter, I would feel there is no option than to vote for her.

[lakeside]

One thing I am happy about is Trump has single-handedly destroyed the GOP! Obama must feel vindicated right about now. They spent years obstructing any progress his administration could have made for the people of this country and now they are paying for it. They have not been interested in governing this country. They have only been interested in having power and special interests.

"Trump has single-handedly destroyed the GOP!"
THAT is music in the air! Obama should be popping the champagne cork!
If that party goes down the toilet....the drinks are on me!

[arr&bee]

Politics is a strange and dirty game,and in this country,i don't trust any of em much[obama included]so i'm stillwondering how the hell donald[duck]trump got the nomination with all the real politicians the gop has,it seems like a setup to get hillary in because i just can't believe this nut job is the best they got.

[marv2]

"Trump has single-handedly destroyed the GOP!"
THAT is music in the air! Obama should be popping the champagne cork!
If that party goes down the toilet....the drinks are on me!

You'd better be prepared to set up your first round because they are done!
It will take them years to rebuild. They at each others throats as we chat here LOL!

[lakeside]

You'd better be prepared to set up your first round because they are done!
It will take them years to rebuild. They at each others throats as we chat here LOL!
"They at each others throats as we chat here LOL!"
Good, I hope they go for the carotids! What's your drink, Marv?

[soulster]

Politics is a strange and dirty game,and in this country,i don't trust any of em much[obama included]so i'm stillwondering how the hell donald[duck]trump got the nomination with all the real politicians the gop has,it seems like a setup to get hillary in because i just can't believe this nut job is the best they got.

I don't know where you like arr, but you just have to live in a very red state to know how they could pick a guy like Trump. People let their religion, misogyny, racism, and homophobia, fuel their hatred of the Clintons, the Obamas, Blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, feminists, and liberals. Trump has tapped into almost all of that.

And, don't insult the legendary musician Donald "Duck" Dunn by using it with Trump's name.

[Roberta75]

Trump is now tweeting that "Hillary Clinton was inappropriately given the debate questions ahead of time" but Chris Wallace said last nifght that NOBODY had seen his questions. I truly believe Donald Trump is mentally unbalanced.

[Roberta75]

I don't know where you like arr, but you just have to live in a very red state to know how they could pick a guy like Trump. People let their religion, misogyny, racism, and homophobia, fuel their hatred of the Clintons, the Obamas, Blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, feminists, and liberals. Trump has tapped into almost all of that.

Oh the GOP had 17 candidattes to pick from and they voted for Trump and now hes surrounded by far right loons like Rudy Guiliani and Sean Hannity. Trumps peddled fear and bigotry and sexism and racism and hate and the far right ate it up. Hes UNFIT to serve for any public office let alone the Presidency.

[arr&bee]

i don't know where you like arr, but you just have to live in a very red state to know how they could pick a guy like trump. People let their religion, misogyny, racism, and homophobia, fuel their hatred of the clintons, the obamas, blacks, mexicans, muslims, feminists, and liberals. Trump has tapped into almost all of that.

And, don't insult the legendary musician donald "duck" dunn by using it with trump's name.i hear ya soulster,i was thinking of the disney character-donald duck!!!

[Jerry Oz]

Well, now they have another red herring for the press to run with. They're saying that Clinton gave away a military secret by saying how long it takes for nukes to launch once the president gives the order. This will be worked to death on Faux News and conservative radio for the next tbree weeks.

[marv2]

Well, now they have another red herring for the press to run with. They're saying that Clinton gave away a military secret by saying how long it takes for nukes to launch once the president gives the order. This will be worked to death on Faux News and conservative radio for the next tbree weeks.


I noticed that last night. The main thing I noticed was the discussion of Hillary supposedly wanting open borders. Whoever fed that info. to Trump was good, but Hillary was better when handling it and explaining how it was not the full picture. When Chris Wallace read from a Wiki Leaks document contradicting Clinton,but supporting what Trump had said, I got a bit nervous.

[Jerry Oz]

But he read it out of context. Wallace tried to suggest that she was a free trade proponent and Trump said she wanted no border security but she explained that the speech was about energy policy and she wanted an open border regarding sharing power grids. So far, no fact checkers have said that was untrue.

[marv2]

"They at each others throats as we chat here LOL!"
Good, I hope they go for the carotids! What's your drink, Marv?

Give me Jack & Coke.......a tall one! LOL!

[marv2]

But he read it out of context. Wallace tried to suggest that she was a free trade proponent and Trump said she wanted no border security but she explained that the speech was about energy policy and she wanted an open border regarding sharing power grids. So far, no fact checkers have said that was untrue.

That's what I meant that she was better. She rebuffed Donald's charge without blinking.

[soulster]

i hear ya soulster,i was thinking of the disney character-donald duck!!! Oh, OK. I can just see him jumping up and down saying "If I don't win, I will NEVER accept the truth that people hate me!"

[robb_k]

I don't think it's so much the republicans as it is Trump himself.

One thing is clear: Trump is setting the republican party for some kind of major stunt next month if and when he loses the election. Not only does he have some kind of media business in the works, I have a theory that he may set up his own party, effectively damaging the republican party, and causing nothing but chaos. That move would take the step that the tea-party should have, create an actual party. This Trump party would consist of all of the disenfranchised white people who stuck by him, and all of the deplorables. Then, he would use, say, his own network to further his message. Steve Bannon and Roger Ailes must be licking their chops for such an opportunity. Ailes gets to rival Fox, and Bannon gets to have a worldwide platform to further his Leninist philosophy to burn down the U.S. government. To make it more worrisome is that Trump's bromance Vladimir Putin can use it as a U.S. propaganda outlet, further endangering our philosophy.

Again, it's just a theory of mine, but I think i'm probably not too far off the mark.

Remember those billboards we used to see of W. Bush and the caption "Do you miss me now?"? We could start seeing those with Barack Obama on them instead, because trump isn't going to go quietly. If he doesn't get his way, he'll burn the house down. That's what a spoiled little narcissistic megalomaniac does.

I still can't imagine how anyone can rationally vote for him and think he'll actually change anything for the better.
11855
Maybe it will be a GOOD thing that the U.S. 2-party political system is destroyed, given that NEITHER party represents the overwhelming majority of their population [[but, rather, only the billionaires and multi-millionaires). Maybe then, smaller, more focussed parties can actually represent each viable interest group, including the large contingents of the basic population. The multi-party systems that often have coalition governments, at least, give the basic populations the opportunity to be represented.

[robb_k]

And, don't insult the legendary musician Donald "Duck" Dunn by using it with Trump's name.
11856
Never mind that! Don't insult Donald Duck, himself, by associating his name with that of Donald Trump!!!

[robb_k]

Unfortunately, it may be that Mrs Clinton will win the Presidency not because she is seen to be so good, but because Mr Trump is seen to be so bad.

If I were an American voter, I would feel there is no option than to vote for her.
11857
MAY be??? It certainly WILL be. Yes, - there IS NO option.

[144man]

One thing I am happy about is Trump has single-handedly destroyed the GOP! Obama must feel vindicated right about now. They spent years obstructing any progress his administration could have made for the people of this country and now they are paying for it. They have not been interested in governing this country. They have only been interested in having power and special interests.

Surely the Democrats will have to win control of the House of Representatives and the Senate before you are able to say that.

[TomatoTom123]

I watched the debate yesterday and the Don-meister was always attacking Hilary [[verbally, of course). The moderator didn't seem very good either...?

[soulster]

I watched the debate yesterday and the Don-meister was always attacking Hilary [[verbally, of course). The moderator didn't seem very good either...?
The moderator Chris Wallace is from Fox news, and stated that he was going to let Trumpster dig his own hole [[well, he didn't really say that, but he may as well have).

[arr&bee]

It seemed at times that he was losing control,and as moderator he has to control things.

[TomatoTom123]

The moderator Chris Wallace is from Fox news, and stated that he was going to let Trumpster dig his own hole [[well, he didn't really say that, but he may as well have).

Thank you, soulster, I remember Trump kept saying "Chris" all the time but I didn't know he was from Fox News [[I've never watched it!)


It seemed at times that he was losing control,and as moderator he has to control things.

Yeah, it seemed like that to me as well

[Jerry Oz]

I think Chris Wallace actually did better than the previous three moderators at keeping them on track. Trump was extremely disrespectful to Lester Holt, Martha Raddatz, and Anderson Cooper. I think he was told to keep his rudeness in check for the final debate. I fully expected Wallace to tailor his questions to Trump and also to let him get away with much more, but he did okay as could be expected with a madman.

And I cannot stand anything about Faux News. Curiously, Drumpf hasn't ripped Wallace like he did the previous moderators, even though he lost the debate. I think he knows he needs that fake news outlet in his pocket if he's going to have any positive coverage for the last three weeks of this mess.

[Roberta75]

I think Chris Wallace actually did better than the previous three moderators at keeping them on track. Trump was extremely disrespectful to Lester Holt, Martha Raddatz, and Anderson Cooper. I think he was told to keep his rudeness in check for the final debate. I fully expected Wallace to tailor his questions to Trump and also to let him get away with much more, but he did okay as could be expected with a madman.

And I cannot stand anything about Faux News. Curiously, Drumpf hasn't ripped Wallace like he did the previous moderators, even though he lost the debate. I think he knows he needs that fake news outlet in his pocket if he's going to have any positive coverage for the last three weeks of this mess.

I didnt get the impression that Chris Wallace cared much for Trump. He probably knows hes a misoginistic bully and bigot.

[Jerry Oz]

I didnt get the impression that Chris Wallace cared much for Trump. He probably knows hes a misoginistic bully and bigot.

Maybe. But Chris Wallace is as much of a jerk as most at Faux News besides Hannity and O'Reilly. Just by association, he's also a bigot and a misogynist or he wouldn't keep his job for very long.

[Roberta75]

Maybe. But Chris Wallace is as much of a jerk as most at Faux News besides Hannity and O'Reilly. Just by association, he's also a bigot and a misogynist or he wouldn't keep his job for very long.

I dont watch Fox News because they yell too much and are in bed with the far right.

[soulster]

Maybe. But Chris Wallace is as much of a jerk as most at Faux News besides Hannity and O'Reilly. Just by association, he's also a bigot and a misogynist or he wouldn't keep his job for very long.

Chris Wallace is one of the [[slightly) saner voices on Fox, and he does the straight news. He doesn't engage in the extreme partisan garbage that Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly do. He's like a male Megyn Kelly with less of a profile.

[TomatoTom123]

I dont watch Fox News because they yell too much and are in bed with the far right.

I have never seen it here in the UK, the closest thing we've got is Sky News, which is owned by Fox but is not as overtly right-wing. Presenter Kay Burley is particularly, erm, aggressive, LOL

[soulster]

"Trump has single-handedly destroyed the GOP!"
THAT is music in the air! Obama should be popping the champagne cork!
If that party goes down the toilet....the drinks are on me!
You know what? People keep saying Trump destroyed the GOP, but they did that to themselves years ago with their crazed ambition to dominate the country and wipe out Democrats. It was bound to backfire. Ever since Ronald Reagan, they sat about a long-term strategy to systematically move this country to the far-right, aided by the christian conservative evangelists. Their only problem is that President Bill Clinton and President Barack Obama got in their way. They just got two lucky breaks when Al Gore lost the Supreme Court challenge, and Al Qaeda attacked the World Trade center.

The christian conservatives' ultimate goal was, and remains to this day, to get Roe vs. Wade overturned.

As soon as Obama was sworn in, they set their plan into overdrive by allowing the tea party to gain an absolute control over their party. That was the ultimate blunder because they not only opposed every single move Obama tried to do to help this country, but the tea party types are now faithful Trump supporters. Trump made it OK for them to really come out. And, Trump is very flawed, but they really had no choice but to accept him after he wiped out all of the other challengers. Trump is the personification of the GOP's eight years of racial hatred, extreme partisanship, and obstruction.

I really hope that the polls are correct [[again) and means that the GOP will be wiped out at the congressional level nationally, and at state level, and will, for the rest of our lifetime, destroy the GOP's chances of ever dominating U.S. politics again as they have for the last 30+ years. I want the republicans to be punished for all the things they have done, and have tried to do to the people of this country and the world. I want them to suffer and feel the pain. I want to see ruby-red states turn blue next month. I want Trump to be crushed by the feet of the American public legitimately and completely so maybe he'll move to Canada...no, I wouldn'wish that on our neighbors to the north. Maybe he'll move to Russia and try to push out Putin. Hey, yeah! That would be a hoot!

[Jerry Oz]

How interesting that when Clinton left the White House, we finally had a balanced budget [[with thanks to a Republican Congress that at least worked with him in that regard when they weren't trying to tar and feather him). Bush got in by buying votes for $500 per. There went the balanced budget. Obama inherited Bush's FUBAR and the TEA Party came into being and they were a bunch of puppets who were "taxed enough already". They tried to destroy the country's progress in order to make Obama look bad.

Same with the Christian Right, who had a Republican president and congress that failed to end Roe v. Wade when they could.

Flip to 2016 and President Obama is the most popular late term president in a generation while the TEA Party is all in with a guy whose only concrete proposal will raise the deficit to ridiculous levels. I'm starting to think that their problem with the president is not because of taxes or abortion. What is odd, is that the people who comprise these two groups are the ones who will/would benefit from President Obama and Hillary Clinton's proposals. Dumb asses.

[soulster]

How interesting that when Clinton left the White House, we finally had a balanced budget [[with thanks to a Republican Congress that at least worked with him in that regard when they weren't trying to tar and feather him). Bush got in by buying votes for $500 per. There went the balanced budget. Obama inherited Bush's FUBAR and the TEA Party came into being and they were a bunch of puppets who were "taxed enough already". They tried to destroy the country's progress in order to make Obama look bad.


Yup! Yup!


Same with the Christian Right, who had a Republican president and congress that failed to end Roe v. Wade when they could.

Uh, when did they have that chance??? It's up to the Supreme Court, not the republicans in congress or the president.


Flip to 2016 and President Obama is the most popular late term president in a generation while the TEA Party is all in with a guy whose only concrete proposal will raise the deficit to ridiculous levels. I'm starting to think that their problem with the president is not because of taxes or abortion. What is odd, is that the people who comprise these two groups are the ones who will/would benefit from President Obama and Hillary Clinton's proposals. Dumb asses.

They vote on ideology, but like to chide democrats and liberals for voting on a straight ticket. Hypocritical dumb asses!.

[Jerry Oz]

Uh, when did they have that chance??? It's up to the Supreme Court, not the republicans in congress or the president.

Never. But that doesn't stop them from feeding that line to the rabble nor the idiots believing it. They'd never get rid of abortion, even if they could because it is the one thing [[besides gun control) that works their base into a lather.

My point is that they say they'll get rid of abortion rights and they'll shrink government and they'll bring back jobs and they'll improve the economy. They've had plenty of opportunity to do each but it's less important once they're in power than when they want to be.

[TomatoTom123]

Never. But that doesn't stop them from feeding that line to the rabble nor the idiots believing it. They'd never get rid of abortion, even if they could because it is the one thing [[besides gun control) that works their base into a lather.

My point is that they say they'll get rid of abortion rights and they'll shrink government and they'll bring back jobs and they'll improve the economy. They've had plenty of opportunity to do each but it's less important once they're in power than when they want to be.

Why do they want to get rid of abortion so desperately?

[ralpht]

Keith Olberman on Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIHXhs7rYps

[soulster]

Why do they want to get rid of abortion so desperately?

Religious beliefs. Most anti-abortion activists, like gun advocates, are single-issue voters. All they really care about is one thing.

We have a clear separation of church and state in our Constitution, but they do not respect that. They want mention and allegiance to god everywhere it isn't currently allowed by law.

[soulster]

My point is that they say they'll get rid of abortion rights and they'll shrink government and they'll bring back jobs and they'll improve the economy. They've had plenty of opportunity to do each but it's less important once they're in power than when they want to be.

And, they are wrong.

When they say they want to shrink government, it is coded language to mean Blacks, and now Mexicans, from getting any government help. That's what it really means, and they have been using that kind of language since Richard Nixon ran for office in 1968. Ahh, but, don't take away their social security and medicare benefits!

When these fools talk about getting the jobs back, they are fooling themselves because those lost jobs are never coming back. Technology has replaced most of them. All they have to do is get retrained. The people they want you to vote for will keep sending jobs to other countries because so they don't have to pay U.S. workers what they are worth. And, it's more dog whistles to keep out "illegals". They like the cheap labor they provide without having to give them protection, but they know that the more immigrants who come here and gain citizenship, the more their majority rule dwindles. I made this point before and someone tried to take me to task on it, but it's very true: the foundation of this anti-immigrant movement is the fear of losing the majority in population and control. The white nationalists are the only ones who aren't afraid of saying it.

[soulster]

Keith Olberman on Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIHXhs7rYps

Thank you Ralph! I miss Keith Olberman! I didn't know he was back to political commentary. He, along with Lawrence O'Donnell, Joe Madison, and Rachael Maddow, are all of my favorite people.

[ralpht]

We like the same people, Soul.

[TomatoTom123]

Religious beliefs. Most anti-abortion activists, like gun advocates, are single-issue voters. All they really care about is one thing.

We have a clear separation of church and state in our Constitution, but they do not respect that. They want mention and allegiance to god everywhere it isn't currently allowed by law.

Jesus Christ!

[[Sorry, LOL)

I am very irreligious. I mean, I'm all for freedom of religion but religion itself should have nothing to do with the state. I do hate how it is still a part of how countries are governed. It's not so bad in the UK but there are some seats in Parliament [[the House of Lords) that are specifically reserved for bishops from the Church of England. I mean, what's all that about?! It's totally undemocratic and unfair to all the other religions, including non-believers, isn't it?!!

[[rant about religion is now over)

[soulster]

Jesus Christ!

[[Sorry, LOL)

I am very irreligious. I mean, I'm all for freedom of religion but religion itself should have nothing to do with the state. I do hate how it is still a part of how countries are governed. It's not so bad in the UK but there are some seats in Parliament [[the House of Lords) that are specifically reserved for bishops from the Church of England. I mean, what's all that about?! It's totally undemocratic and unfair to all the other religions, including non-believers, isn't it?!!

[[rant about religion is now over)

I am very anti-religious. That does not mean I am anti-God or anti-Jesus, or anything like that. I respect anyone for their religious beliefs as long as they do not try to force me to live by their rules. I do not try to challenge them as long as they don't try to proselytize me. At this point, I am even questioning the existence of god as an omnipresent figure. I guess you could call me am agnostic these days. I reserve a special hatred for hypocritical evangelical christians because of their politics. Even jesus warned his followers about false religions and getting into politics.

[TomatoTom123]

I am very anti-religious. That does not mean I am anti-God or anti-Jesus, or anything like that. I respect anyone for their religious beliefs as long as they do not try to force me to live by their rules. I do not try to challenge them as long as they don't try to proselytize me. At this point, I am even questioning the existence of god as an omnipresent figure. I guess you could call me am agnostic these days. I reserve a special hatred for hypocritical evangelical christians because of their politics. Even jesus warned his followers about false religions and getting into politics.

soulster, yes, yes, yes, YES!!! Thank you, I understand EXACTLY what you mean and agree with you wholeheartedly! Although I am an atheist, through and through. My dad actually teaches physics [[the Big Bang and such), so you don't get much more atheist than that, LOL ;)

[soulster]

soulster, yes, yes, yes, YES!!! Thank you, I understand EXACTLY what you mean and agree with you wholeheartedly! Although I am an atheist, through and through. My dad actually teaches physics [[the Big Bang and such), so you don't get much more atheist than that, LOL ;)

The great Carl Sagan was not an atheist.

[Jerry Oz]

I'm Christian. That doesn't mean that my beliefs are more important than yours. It's up to you to save your own soul. As for abortion, someone of my faith would not likely use it for birth control, so what is it to me if someone else chooses to do it? As far as I am concerned, we should care about the kids already here.

I live in a state [[Ohio) that has a reasonably high number of technology jobs and institutions of higher learning, certainly it's not a backwoods state by any means. But we have an infant mortality rate that compares to some third world countries. I'll care more about the plight of the unborn when the born starts getting a fair shake.

The holier than thou set both wants to eliminate the options of women while continually trying to reduce society's burden toward helping their children have a good quality of life. Forcing someone to have a kid while also ensuring that they live in poverty is the opposite of a Christ-like thing to do. And not one takes the time to help those families or share their burdens as Christ would. SMH.

Consider: The same crew that thinks welfare that provides a few hundred dollars per month to a poor family is fighting hard to elect the biggest welfare mother in history president. What else is it when my tax dollars subsidize his poor business decisions and subsequent failures. Yah, I'm Christian all day, but don't confuse me with being "pro-religion".

[TomatoTom123]

The great Carl Sagan was not an atheist.

Oh yes, of course, you don't have to be an atheist


I'm Christian. That doesn't mean that my beliefs are more important than yours. It's up to you to save your own soul. As for abortion, someone of my faith would not likely use it for birth control, so what is it to me if someone else chooses to do it? As far as I am concerned, we should care about the kids already here.

I live in a state [[Ohio) that has a reasonably high number of technology jobs and institutions of higher learning, certainly it's not a backwoods state by any means. But we have an infant mortality rate that compares to some third world countries. I'll care more about the plight of the unborn when the born starts getting a fair shake.

The holier than thou set both wants to eliminate the options of women while continually trying to reduce society's burden toward helping their children have a good quality of life. Forcing someone to have a kid while also ensuring that they live in poverty is the opposite of a Christ-like thing to do. And not one takes the time to help those families or share their burdens as Christ would. SMH.

Consider: The same crew that thinks welfare that provides a few hundred dollars per month to a poor family is fighting hard to elect the biggest welfare mother in history president. What else is it when my tax dollars subsidize his poor business decisions and subsequent failures. Yah, I'm Christian all day, but don't confuse me with being "pro-religion".

I agree! That is a very fair and rational [[and Christian) way of looking at things. Although I don't believe in Jesus or that I have a soul to be saved. [[But I agree with everything else! :))

[soulster]

Jerry, I know not all so-called christians are rotten, but, man, they are the most obnoxious! And, what pisses me off is that the good ones don't speak out against them , at least not forcefully. It's like cops. You have bad cops and cops that don't do what the bad cops do, but they all maintain that blue wall of silence.

[144man]

soulster, yes, yes, yes, YES!!! Thank you, I understand EXACTLY what you mean and agree with you wholeheartedly! Although I am an atheist, through and through. My dad actually teaches physics [[the Big Bang and such), so you don't get much more atheist than that, LOL ;)

I don't believe the existence of God can be logically proved because that would eliminate the need for faith.

I wish your dad would be able to explain to me [[1) why the expansion of the universe is accelerating [[2} what dark energy is, and [[3) why and how there is so much carbon [[without which life would be impossible) in the universe.

[TomatoTom123]

I don't believe the existence of God can be logically proved because that would eliminate the need for faith.

I wish your dad would be able to explain to me [[1) why the expansion of the universe is accelerating [[2} what dark energy is, and [[3) why and how there is so much carbon [[without which life would be impossible) in the universe.

Yes, well, he probably could, but I certainly can't, LOL.

I don't believe the existence of God can be logically proved because God doesn't exist! Hehe :)

[144man]

Yes, well, he probably could, but I certainly can't, LOL.

I don't believe the existence of God can be logically proved because God doesn't exist! Hehe :)

And the other reason I don't accept the results of the Brexit vote is why should I have faith in the views of a population half of whom don't even believe in Darwinian evolution.

[Roberta75]

Jerry, I know not all so-called christians are rotten, but, man, they are the most obnoxious! And, what pisses me off is that the good ones don't speak out against them , at least not forcefully. It's like cops. You have bad cops and cops that don't do what the bad cops do, but they all maintain that blue wall of silence.

NO we do speak out forcefully. im a woman of God and a Christian but im also very pro choice and im for same sex marriage and im a real strong defender of rights for all. I always challenge Christians who have bigoted imo ways of thinking so some of us DO speak out forecfully.

[144man]

In the same way, the UK press does not give any coverage when Moslem leaders speak out against terrorism.

[Jerry Oz]

I don't believe the existence of God can be logically proved because that would eliminate the need for faith.

I wish your dad would be able to explain to me [[1) why the expansion of the universe is accelerating [[2} what dark energy is, and [[3) why and how there is so much carbon [[without which life would be impossible) in the universe.

It goes both ways. If all space and time began with the Big Bang, how could it have catalyzed? I can't give you answers but my response to every question of "why" is that there is order in the chaos of existence that nobody has ever explained to my satisfaction. I also question how life can [[1) come from non-life and [[2) how the first organisms not only survived but developed the means to reproduce and adapt to changing environments. Upon what did the protozoa [[i assume that was the first organism) subsist? And why would it be encoded toward mutation that allows evolution hundreds of millions of years later?

Any answer that you provide is as speculative as my belief that the universe was created as opposed to having just happened. God bless you in your belief, though.

[TomatoTom123]

It goes both ways. If all space and time began with the Big Bang, how could it have catalyzed? I can't give you answers but my response to every question of "why" is that there is order in the chaos of existence that nobody has ever explained to my satisfaction. I also question how life can [[1) come from non-life and [[2) how the first organisms not only survived but developed the means to reproduce and adapt to changing environments. Upon what did the protozoa [[i assume that was the first organism) subsist? And why would it be encoded toward mutation that allows evolution hundreds of millions of years later?

Any answer that you provide is as speculative as my belief that the universe was created as opposed to having just happened. God bless you in your belief, though.

We can never really know, but we can make predictions and theories based on evidence and such, and I'd rather go with that than just pure faith.

No offence, Jerry Oz, but I don't really want God's blessings! Lol ;)

[calvin]

If you love wars, including possibly war with Russia, Hillary Clinton will give you what you want. It's no coincidence that the neocons are all backing Hillary.

I hoped that Americans [[and Brits) would be sick of these wars after Iraq. Wrong. Just look at Libya and Syria.

Here's an editorial from Der Spiegel, a leading and influential left-of-center German news publication. Germans can't vote in this election, so it's not an "endorsement", but Jakob Augstein [[son of Rudolf Augstein, one of the founders of Spiegel) writes that Germans should hope for a Trump win, despite his obvious flaws. I'll translate the opening - if you don't read German, you can use Google translate to read the rest.
"Security risk Clinton
The Case for Trump
Is there at least one single reason to hope for a victory from Donald Trump? Yes - peace. Hillary Clinton wants to risk military confrontation with Russia in the Syrian war. Germany cannot want that."

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/was-fuer-donald-trump-spricht-kommentar-a-1117476.html

Assad is horrible, but the US is arming terrorists fighting against him. Hillary Clinton continues to insist on a no-fly zone, despite statements by the US military that this means war with Russia [[she pushed for this while in the State Department, but Obama refused). Note that when directly asked in the third debate whether she was prepared to shoot down a Russian plane violating her no-fly zone, she deflected and did not answer the question. [[The answer is "yes", she will not declare a no-fly zone unless she intends to enforce it.) Russia has pointed out that it was invited by the legitimate government of Syria and warned that it will defend itself. It has moved S-300 anti-aircraft missiles into Syria - these are intended for American planes, as the rebels have none. Look for Russia to make a big push to defeat the rebels in Aleppo before Clinton is inaugurated; a Russian aircraft carrier just passed through the English Channel, probably on its way to Syria.

Meanwhile, the Russian government is preparing its people for a nuclear war.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/721008/Russia-America-nuclear-war-Putin-Obama-bunker-fallout-shelter-Syria-Bashar-al-Assad

Even if this is a bluff, the state of high alert makes it more likely that a misunderstanding could lead to a nuclear exchange.

The Podesta emails from Wikileaks also show that Clinton plans to confront China in the South China Sea.

Brace yourself for more wars under Clinton, and possibly a very big one. Hillary Clinton is a war monger. I hope the UK can stay out of all this, but I have little confidence in that.

At least some Democrats are beginning to wake up:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/24/tyts_jimmy_dore_democrats_are_restarting_the_cold_ war_for_political_benefit.html

[soulster]

Calvin, i'd rather have Clinton in office than an emotionally immature and unstable megalomaniacal narcissist that is Donald "grab her by the pussy" Trump.

[Jerry Oz]

We can never really know, but we can make predictions and theories based on evidence and such, and I'd rather go with that than just pure faith.

No offence, Jerry Oz, but I don't really want God's blessings! Lol ;)

None taken. I wasn't trying to convert you. When I say "God bless you", it's more for me than you. [[It's hard to explain.) My own beliefs are much different than those of traditional Christians. I don't even discuss it with them or I wind up in a contentious debate. I'm certainly not going to go into it on a message board.

But when I hear people ask existential questions, I often take the bait to ask a few of my own.

[TomatoTom123]

None taken. I wasn't trying to convert you. When I say "God bless you", it's more for me than you. [[It's hard to explain.) My own beliefs are much different than those of traditional Christians. I don't even discuss it with them or I wind up in a contentious debate. I'm certainly not going to go into it on a message board.

But when I hear people ask existential questions, I often take the bait to ask a few of my own.

You know what, I completely understand! Thank you, Jerry Oz :)

[TomatoTom123]

Calvin, i'd rather have Clinton in office than an emotionally immature and unstable megalomaniacal narcissist that is Donald "grab her by the pussy" Trump.

Thank you, soulster. You said it all!

[calvin]

Thank you, soulster. You said it all!

To the extent that there is any coherence at all in Trump's foreign policy, it seems to be in favor of less foreign military intervention, and that would be good. Knowing Hillary's past record and current positions, I think Trump is probably the lesser evil on this point. But I write "probably", because of course no one can be sure until the person is in office. Just look at Obama and the disasters in Libya and Syria.

I could vote in this election [[I'm both a US and UK citizen), but I decided months ago that the choice is so horrible that I will not. Now it's too late, but if I did vote I would certainly vote against Hillary, either holding my nose and going for Trump, or perhaps for Jill Stein as a protest.

Said it all? If the two of you are saying you'd rather have wars, with hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed [[Syrian civil war, 300,000-400,000 killed and still counting, with the US complicit in a fair share of that), because the megalomaniacal narcissist Trump [[and I agree with that assessment) said eleven years ago that he "grabbed some pussy", I'd invite you to reconsider your priorities.

[TomatoTom123]

I am not saying that Hilary is perfect, by no means is she perfect. But if you are seriously suggesting that we would be safer under the leadership of a racist, misogynist and megalomaniac, I cannot agree.

The situation in Syria is terrible. Because of previous wars I would say that the US and the UK are reluctant to go in with full military intervention. However, I don't even know what Donald Trump's foreign policy is - and that in itself is probably not a good sign.

I agree that neither candidate is very good though, and it is a case of the "lesser of the two evils". Donald Trump, however, is probably not the answer! :)

[soulster]

None taken. I wasn't trying to convert you. When I say "God bless you", it's more for me than you. [[It's hard to explain.)



Well, it annoys me when people say that, or "You are blessed", and I say it is a way for them to push their beliefs on people.

[soulster]

To the extent that there is any coherence at all in Trump's foreign policy, it seems to be in favor of less foreign military intervention, and that would be good. Knowing Hillary's past record and current positions, I think Trump is probably the lesser evil on this point. But I write "probably", because of course no one can be sure until the person is in office. Just look at Obama and the disasters in Libya and Syria.

I could vote in this election [[I'm both a US and UK citizen), but I decided months ago that the choice is so horrible that I will not. Now it's too late, but if I did vote I would certainly vote against Hillary, either holding my nose and going for Trump, or perhaps for Jill Stein as a protest.

Said it all? If the two of you are saying you'd rather have wars, with hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed [[Syrian civil war, 300,000-400,000 killed and still counting, with the US complicit in a fair share of that), because the megalomaniacal narcissist Trump [[and I agree with that assessment) said eleven years ago that he "grabbed some pussy", I'd invite you to reconsider your priorities.

Clinton has certainly made mistakes, such as voting for the Iraqi war, and Trump keeps lying about his non-support for it despite there being recorded evidence of him supporting it.

I honestly don't know what Clinton would do with regard to using military muscle, but I wouldn't Trust trump's judgement or temperament to not do the same.

[TomatoTom123]

Well, it annoys me when people say that, or "You are blessed", and I say it is a way for them to push their beliefs on people.

Yes. I don't get why you have to say "God bless you" when someone sneezes. That annoys me, LOL. You know, I don't even say "pardon me" when I burp because of its potential religious connotations, hehehe!! [[I say "excuse me", of course) ;)

[Jerry Oz]

Well, it annoys me when people say that, or "You are blessed", and I say it is a way for them to push their beliefs on people.
Say what you will. You're right in some cases and wrong in others. That's your problem. You have no problem proclaiming your belief, so it's interesting that you ascribe your meaning to the words of others who feel differently. God bless you, brother but it doesn't matter to me if you believe in heaven or hell, just as I'm not concerned whether you find either.

[Jerry Oz]

Yes. I don't get why you have to say "God bless you" when someone sneezes. That annoys me, LOL. You know, I don't even say "pardon me" when I burp because of its potential religious connotations, hehehe!! [[I say "excuse me", of course) ;)
As I said, their blessing you has less to do with you than them. If you are so offended by "pardon me", I suggest that you not say "goodbye" either. You should also avoid saying that you hope something does or does not happen. Semantics and language are interesting.

I'm happy that you found your belief system and have not written one word against it here or elsewhere in spite of what I perceive to be your attitude toward others. You don't have to "get" why I might bless you just as I don't get [[or care, really) that you don't. But it's interesting that you care more about the words used to express kindness toward you than you do that someone who cared enough to do it.

[144man]

Yes. I don't get why you have to say "God bless you" when someone sneezes. That annoys me, LOL. You know, I don't even say "pardon me" when I burp because of its potential religious connotations, hehehe!! [[I say "excuse me", of course) ;)

I don't mind anyone blessing me when I sneeze or even praying for me when I'm ill. I need all the help I can get!

[TomatoTom123]

As I said, their blessing you has less to do with you than them. If you are so offended by "pardon me", I suggest that you not say "goodbye" either. You should also avoid saying that you hope something does or does not happen. Semantics and language are interesting.

I'm happy that you found your belief system and have not written one word against it here or elsewhere in spite of what I perceive to be your attitude toward others. You don't have to "get" why I might bless you just as I don't get [[or care, really) that you don't. But it's interesting that you care more about the words used to express kindness toward you than you do that someone who cared enough to do it.

I wasn't being very serious about the whole "bless you" or "pardon me" thing. I don't stay up at night, angry that someone has blessed me for sneezing or teaching myself to say "excuse me" instead of "pardon me", LOL! You're right, though, when I think about it, I rarely say "goodbye", it's always "bye" or "see ya". Now what does that say about me?? Lol

And I'm not really offended by "bless you". It's good that someone is being nice by saying it, it's just that I wouldn't really know they were being nice, it means nothing to me. It just feels a bit, I don't know, demeaning, like I need God's blessings because I don't believe in him. I don't know. It's probably just me :)

[Roberta75]

Sean Hannitty has lost the last shred of dignity he had since he started shamelesly kissing Trumps rear end.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hannity-interviews-alien-conspiracy-theorist-about-clinton-scandals-150646880.html

[edafan]

I voted early today.

For the first time ever, I didn't vote for a president,

but I did vote on the rest of the ballot.

edafan

[Jerry Oz]

I might vote early. I'm definitely voting for president when I do.

[sophisticated_soul]

I have already voted. I happily voted for Hillary.:)

[Roberta75]

I voted early today.

For the first time ever, I didn't vote for a president,

but I did vote on the rest of the ballot.

edafan

I hope you dont live in a swing state that goes to Trump. Your business but having that dangersous lunatic in the oval offices is a high price to pay.

[Roberta75]

I have already voted. I happily voted for Hillary.:)

Me too I mailed mine in a week ago and I voted for Hillary.

[soulster]

I'm voting for Hillary. Republicans won't like it, but I am voting a straight Democratic ticket down the line. I've had enough of Republicans, and something has to change.

We need a woman president. There are an awful lot of men who are terrified of that, which makes me even happier to vote for Hillary.

I could vote early, but I simply like the ritual of going to the polling place on that day. I just don't trust mail-in ballots, particularly in this republican-controlled state where the state officials are Trump supporters.

[sophisticated_soul]

Me too I mailed mine in a week ago and I voted for Hillary.

I hope there are enough of us Roberta. I believe there are, I have faith that there are. But it ain't over 'til it's over. Everyone needs to vote.

[soulster]

Say what you will. You're right in some cases and wrong in others. That's your problem. You have no problem proclaiming your belief, so it's interesting that you ascribe your meaning to the words of others who feel differently. God bless you, brother but it doesn't matter to me if you believe in heaven or hell, just as I'm not concerned whether you find either.

I proclaim by beliefs on the internet, but I respect people in person by not declaring my hatred of these religious types who insist on telling me to "Have a blessed day". If they only knew what I plan to do on the weekends! It's like those people who try to ram "Merry Christmas down everyone's throat. I don't say it because someone might be Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, whatever. Someone may have lost their family in a car crash on Christmas. I don't know, and don't want to assume everyone celebrates Christmas. Hell, there are Seventh-Day Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses who don't celebrate Christmas!

Jerry, it sounds like this discussion is getting you steamed, so you might want to back out of it. Face it: not everyone likes or respects religion. I told you that I do respect religious people just as long as they do not force it on me, and telling me to have a "blessed" day is forcing their beliefs on me.

No one here has attacked you or your beliefs. But, I would be interested in how saying "Have a Blessed Day" helps the person saying it.

[soulster]

Sean Hannitty has lost the last shred of dignity he had since he started shamelesly kissing Trumps rear end.


I'm sure Hannity lost his dignity looong before Trump came along.

[soulster]

I hope you dont live in a swing state that goes to Trump. Your business but having that dangersous lunatic in the oval offices is a high price to pay. I agree! Never waste a vote! It's too precious. One may think that not voting is a protest vote, but it does nothing.

Edafan can do what they want, but if Trump just happens to get elected, don't come crying to us when the world goes down because of him.

I will proudly cast my vote for Hillary Clinton because of her long record of helping Blacks, the poor, and children. I don't give a damn about emails. I don't like Bill Clinton, but he isn't on the ticket.

[soulster]

I hope there are enough of us Roberta. I believe there are, I have faith that there are. But it ain't over 'til it's over. Everyone needs to vote. Truth! It ain't over 'till it's over. Vote. Make sure Trump loses decisively so he can't try to claim fraud and contest anything in court.

[sophisticated_soul]

A decisive victory would also send the message that more of us want to move forward instead of going back to the 'good old days'. Remember the good old days, when white men called the shots, women were second class citizen, blacks knew their place and gays were in the closet.

[Roberta75]

A decisive victory would also send the message that more of us want to move forward instead of going back to the 'good old days'. Remember the good old days, when white men called the shots, women were second class citizen, blacks knew their place and gays were in the closet.

We need a total blow out IMO to show the Republicans that there done and we need a fork in there party.

[Roberta75]

I'm sure Hannity lost his dignity looong before Trump came along.

Yes hes always been a bigot and hate monger but if had one shred f decency left Trumps sucked it out of him.

[sophisticated_soul]

I agree, Fork the Republican Party! Except for the good ones - all three of them.:)

[soulster]

A decisive victory would also send the message that more of us want to move forward instead of going back to the 'good old days'. Remember the good old days, when white men called the shots, women were second class citizen, blacks knew their place and gays were in the closet.

That's it! "Make America White Again". Back to the days where there weren't enough of them minorities and illegals to vote for African Muslims. Back to the days before women got sassy and started voting. back to the days when a man could knock up a woman and make her marry you.

[soulster]

Yes hes always been a bigot and hate monger but if had one shred f decency left Trumps sucked it out of him.

And swallowed. :)

[Jerry Oz]

I proclaim by beliefs on the internet, but I respect people in person by not declaring my hatred of these religious types who insist on telling me to "Have a blessed day". If they only knew what I plan to do on the weekends! It's like those people who try to ram "Merry Christmas down everyone's throat. I don't say it because someone might be Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, whatever. Someone may have lost their family in a car crash on Christmas. I don't know, and don't want to assume everyone celebrates Christmas. Hell, there are Seventh-Day Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses who don't celebrate Christmas!

Jerry, it sounds like this discussion is getting you steamed, so you might want to back out of it. Face it: not everyone likes or respects religion. I told you that I do respect religious people just as long as they do not force it on me, and telling me to have a "blessed" day is forcing their beliefs on me.

No one here has attacked you or your beliefs. But, I would be interested in how saying "Have a Blessed Day" helps the person saying it.

Nah, I'm not steamed at all. As I stated before, my beliefs are radically different from other Christians'. I'm religious but not the "religious type". If I was, I'd be a hypocrite because I've probably done things worse than your plans for the weekend. Shoot, my brother-in-law all but told me I was going to hell three weeks ago because I don't cosign to his cookie cutter version of Christianity.

It's cool, though. If I fit the stereotypical image of a Christian, I'm pretty sure I couldn't enjoy all of the music that I listen to. I'll know not to say "God bless you" to you [[and tomatotom) but that won't stop me from praying for you if I find out you are in straits of any sort. Don't worry, though, you won't know when I do.

That's because you're one of my dudes [[internet version), not because I want to invite you to church. LOL.

[Jerry Oz]

I No one here has attacked you or your beliefs. But, I would be interested in how saying "Have a Blessed Day" helps the person saying it.
BTW: It helps because I can't do anything to make your situation better, so I would like to think someone or something greater than I can. It's my way to let you know that I love you without being awkward about it.

Damn. That last line was awkward...

[Jerry Oz]

We need a total blow out IMO to show the Republicans that there done and we need a fork in there party.
This election has revealed this country for what it is and will probably always be. Regardless of margin, the number of hate-filled bigots and misogynistic tools who care less about the security of the world, respecting others, and a color blind America than they care about worshiping at the cult of personality has forever altered how I view people. If the polls are correct, then most of the White folks I encounter each day and more than 60% of all White men think that I belong in the margins of society. I will wonder which are in that majority for years. I knew that racism and misogyny were problems but it tears at me that minorities and women are pretty much fighting the battle alone.

And that explains a lot.

[TomatoTom123]

Nah, I'm not steamed at all. As I stated before, my beliefs are radically different from other Christians'. I'm religious but not the "religious type". If I was, I'd be a hypocrite because I've probably done things worse than your plans for the weekend. Shoot, my brother-in-law all but told me I was going to hell three weeks ago because I don't cosign to his cookie cutter version of Christianity.

It's cool, though. If I fit the stereotypical image of a Christian, I'm pretty sure I couldn't enjoy all of the music that I listen to. I'll know not to say "God bless you" to you [[and tomatotom) but that won't stop me from praying for you if I find out you are in straits of any sort. Don't worry, though, you won't know when I do.

That's because you're one of my dudes [[internet version), not because I want to invite you to church. LOL.

Now you're secretly praying for me?? How dare you!!!? LOLOL. I don't mind. :)

[soulster]

[QUOTE]...I've probably done things worse than your plans for the weekend.

I'll bet you haven't. :)



I'll know not to say "God bless you" to you [[and tomatotom) but that won't stop me from praying for you if I find out you are in straits of any sort. Don't worry, though, you won't know when I do.

That's because you're one of my dudes [[internet version), not because I want to invite you to church. LOL.


Thanks for the clarification.

[soulster]

BTW: It helps because I can't do anything to make your situation better, so I would like to think someone or something greater than I can. It's my way to let you know that I love you without being awkward about it.

Damn. That last line was awkward...

Like brothers, man, like brothers! Hahahahaha!

[soulster]

This election has revealed this country for what it is and will probably always be. Regardless of margin, the number of hate-filled bigots and misogynistic tools who care less about the security of the world, respecting others, and a color blind America than they care about worshiping at the cult of personality has forever altered how I view people. If the polls are correct, then most of the White folks I encounter each day and more than 60% of all White men think that I belong in the margins of society. I will wonder which are in that majority for years. I knew that racism and misogyny were problems but it tears at me that minorities and women are pretty much fighting the battle alone.

And that explains a lot. Tonight on CNN, a reporter went around to a bunch of Trump supporters outside of one of his rallies, and asked them what policies they liked of Trumps. Very few could, or would give specifics, but that could also be because some jackass was following her around with a camera telling everyone not to talk to her because she's from CNN. Anyway, it did show that most of them had no idea of what Trumps policies actually are. My guess as to why few of them would really say anything is because Trump is White. Remember that the majority of Republicans believe Obama is a Muslim, and want the Mexicans kicked out of the country. That tells me they are bigots and racists, and don't really want to say why they really like Trump.

I'll say it again: people like Trump because he represents the last gasp of the White rule in this country. Their time is up, and they are fighting it just like they fought Obama, immigration, Affirmative Action, "religious freedom", LGBT rights, and for the second Amendment.

[sophisticated_soul]

Damn. That last line was awkward...

Expressing love on any level seems to be awkward for most us. From a casual expression of love like Bless You to a full tilt expression like I Love You we tend to be awkward in love. I really can’t control how a person responds to some expression of love [[big or small) I might make, and if the expression is not appreciated I would respond accordingly. What’s most important here to me is that I am making the expression. That I am practicing what I preach, that I am willing to get past the awkwardness of expressing love, on any level. I have a friend [[really) who is just over the expression Have A Nice Day; that’s small potatoes but I respect it and make the same expression of love with different words.

[calvin]

Clinton has certainly made mistakes, such as voting for the Iraqi war....

They're not "mistakes", it's part of who she is. Consider another example, Libya.

Muammar Gaddafi was not a nice guy and I'm not defending him in any way. But he did agree to give up his WMD [[weapons of mass destruction) program in exchange for recognition, lifting of sanctions, and a promised return to the "community of nations." But at the first signs of a popular uprising during the Arab Spring, the Obama administration [[Obama, Clinton, and Samantha Power) decided the time was ripe for "regime change". They first went to the UN to request a no-fly zone to protect Libyan civilians; this was approved, Russia and China did not block it [[they abstained). But the Russians and Chinese were duped, as US planes [[along, sadly, with the UK and French) began attacking Libyan troops on the ground, including finally a convoy that Gaddafi was in, leading to his death.

And here's Clinton's sick reaction, laughing about and enjoying Gaddafi's death, it makes me wonder whether she is a psychopath:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y

What were the consequences? ISIS moved into Libya and the country remains in chaos. And do you really expect Russia and China to support the US the next time it asks for approval to protect civilians? And how about nuclear proliferation? The deal with Gaddafi shows that a country that the US doesn't like needs nuclear weapons and should never give them up, because the US can't be trusted. Kim Jong Un must know that if he agreed to give up his atomic bombs, the US would kill him the first chance they get. He can take out Seoul with a A-bomb, but his real survival strategy is to develop a missile that can carry an atomic bomb to the west coast of the US.

Now, because Obama encouraged the Arab Spring uprising in Syria in 2011 [[saying "Assad must go"), the US finds itself supporting terrorists and risking war with Russia in Syria because it is unwilling or unable to back down from that statement.

And how about those Saudis? Clinton's wikileak emails show that she knows they are funding ISIS and other terrorists around the world, and she considers the Saudis a threat to the US. And yet, Clinton approved massive arms sales to Saudi Arabia while heading the State Department after the Saudis paid her tens of millions. Now we just learned that John and Tony Podesta are being paid $140,000 per month by the Saudis. It is so cynical.

Reading this thread makes me pessimistic about the future. I can understand people going for what they believe is the lesser evil, but I can't understand praise for Clinton. People are so wrapped up in the Democrats vs Republicans contest that they can't see the forest for the trees. The American people are getting screwed by both parties, and have been for decades.

Check out this Princeton study, which concluded that the US is no longer an actual democracy. Summary: in cases where the interest of the people differs from the interest of the wealthy party donors, the party donors get what they want. [[Equally true for both parties.)
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy

This article also came up in Wikileaks - a finance billionaire and big donor to Clinton emailed that link to John Podesta and remarked, "I guess it takes a study to point out the obvious."

[soulster]

They're not "mistakes", it's part of who she is. Consider another example, Libya.

I can forgive a vote for the Iraqi war because a lot of people were duped by the big lie that Saddam had nukes, or was working on them.


And here's Clinton's sick reaction, laughing about and enjoying Gaddafi's death, it makes me wonder whether she is a psychopath:

So, how many in the W. Bush administration cheered when we executed Saddam?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y


What were the consequences? ISIS moved into Libya and the country remains in chaos. And do you really expect Russia and China to support the US the next time it asks for approval to protect civilians? And how about nuclear proliferation? The deal with Gaddafi shows that a country that the US doesn't like needs nuclear weapons and should never give them up, because the US can't be trusted. Kim Jong Un must know that if he agreed to give up his atomic bombs, the US would kill him the first chance they get. He can take out Seoul with a A-bomb, but his real survival strategy is to develop a missile that can carry an atomic bomb to the west coast of the US.


And, you want a guy who didn't even know that his pal Putin invaded Crimea and annexed it to the Russian Federation? You want a guy who wants to carpet bomb all of our enemies with nukes? Trump is the bigger psychopath.


Now, because Obama encouraged the Arab Spring uprising in Syria in 2011 [[saying "Assad must go"), the US finds itself supporting terrorists and risking war with Russia in Syria because it is unwilling or unable to back down from that statement.

And how about those Saudis? Clinton's wikileak emails show that she knows they are funding ISIS and other terrorists around the world, and she considers the Saudis a threat to the US. And yet, Clinton approved massive arms sales to Saudi Arabia while heading the State Department after the Saudis paid her tens of millions. Now we just learned that John and Tony Podesta are being paid $140,000 per month by the Saudis. It is so cynical.

If those "leaked" emails are true.

As you know, domestic politics takes priority over all else. I don't know just how much information you guys get in the U.K., but trust me: Donald J. Trump is seriously bad news! There's a reason your previous administration planned to bar him from entering the U.K..


Reading this forum makes me pessimistic about the future. I can understand people going for what they believe is the lesser evil, but I can't understand praise for Clinton. People are so wrapped up in the Democrats vs Republicans contest that they can't see the forest for the trees. The American people are getting screwed by both parties, and have been for decades.

Trust me when I say that Clinton has a lot of negatives, but they do not outweigh Trump's negatives. As for parties, anyone who lives here knows that the republicans have screwed the American people for decades. They are the ones who have been in power most of the time, if not in the White House, in congress. Over the last six years, the republicans have held the majority, and have done absolutely nothing to help move this country forward. republicans keep trying to attach anti-LGBT religious freedom bills to military spending bills. They waste their time voting to repeal Obamacare instead of looking for ways to fix it. They take long breaks. They have done nothing just because they hate Obama.


Check out this Princeton study, which concluded that the US is no longer an actual democracy. Summary: in cases where the interest of the people differs from the interest of the wealthy party donors, the party donors get what they want. [[Equally true for both parties.)

The U.S. was never a democracy. It is a republic. Look it up.

[soulster]

Expressing love on any level seems to be awkward for most us. From a casual expression of love like Bless You to a full tilt expression like I Love You we tend to be awkward in love. I really can’t control how a person responds to some expression of love [[big or small) I might make, and if the expression is not appreciated I would respond accordingly. What’s most important here to me is that I am making the expression. That I am practicing what I preach, that I am willing to get past the awkwardness of expressing love, on any level. I have a friend [[really) who is just over the expression Have A Nice Day; that’s small potatoes but I respect it and make the same expression of love with different words.

To the point Jerry and I were joking about: it is still taboo for many men to express affection for each other either verbally or physically with a hug. How many of us had fathers that only shook hands with his son? How many people get that creepy feeling when hugging, or seeing two guys hug, and think there's something gay about it? That mentality is still out there, folks! When men say "I love you", they have to attach the "brother" or "bro" to it to make sure no one thinks it's a romance or a crush. In comparison, women don't have these issues. It's quite common to see two straight women holding hands and hugging. No one thinks they are gay.

As far as the "You are blessed!" thing is concerned: I grit my teeth whenever someone says that to me. It's a way these people force their beliefs on people. What if I don't believe a higher power blesses people? But, that person is forcing that belief on to me anyway, just like with the "Merry Christmas' folks. If I say "Merry X-Mas" or "enjoy your holiday", they emphasize the "Christmas" part in anger, which leads us back to...

These Trump supporters feel like the world they knew is going away. They grew up in a world where Christmas and their religious beliefs were never challenged because of "political correctness" for others who may be different. They can't deal with a world that doesn't believe Christopher Columbus discovered America. They refuse to believe that the Pilgrims had nothing but the best intentions. Tio them, John Wayne is a hero. Ronald Reagan was the best ever president. They resent more languages than English anywhere. They hate a president that looks like the very people they have tried to marginalize.

[calvin]

So, how many in the W. Bush administration cheered when we executed Saddam?

I've never defended Bush and his administration. Saying someone else did the same or worse is not a justification for what Hillary has done and will do as President.


The U.S. was never a democracy. It is a republic. Look it up.

Look it up yourself. The United States is a republic which is also a representative democracy.

Merriam-Webster: Democracy
1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

"The United States is not a direct democracy, in the sense of a country in which laws [[and other government decisions) are made predominantly by majority vote. Some lawmaking is done this way, on the state and local levels, but it’s only a tiny fraction of all lawmaking. But we are a representative democracy, which is a form of democracy."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/13/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/?utm_term=.4c9aa62aa9fe

[phil]

The American people are getting screwed by both parties, and have been for decades.


Good point Calvin ! Though unfortunately I don't think the situation is much different for us Europeans. Except that we have more than two parties...

[calvin]

Good point Calvin ! Though unfortunately I don't think the situation is much different for us Europeans. Except that we have more than two parties...

Agreed. And the UK gets involved in everything the US does... All the more reason why I don't want the US starting any more unnecessary wars, and especially not with Russia.

[calvin]

Look, just to be clear - I'm not pro Trump. I'm anti-Hillary for the reasons I stated [[and a lot more). As I wrote, I decided months ago not to vote. Maybe I should have voted for Jill Stein [[Green Party) as a protest, but it's too late now.

[calvin]

As for parties, anyone who lives here knows that the republicans have screwed the American people for decades. They are the ones who have been in power most of the time, if not in the White House, in congress. Over the last six years, the republicans have held the majority, and have done absolutely nothing to help move this country forward. republicans keep trying to attach anti-LGBT religious freedom bills to military spending bills. They waste their time voting to repeal Obamacare instead of looking for ways to fix it. They take long breaks. They have done nothing just because they hate Obama.

The Democrats have screwed Americans too, just in different ways. When I was a kid, the Democrats represented [[among others) working people - including the uneducated and unskilled. Today, they represent the interests of their major donors - Silicon Valley [[and the tech industry in general) and Wall Street, for example. Both parties make policy decisions in the interests of these wealthy donors, whether or not these policies are in the interests of most Americans. That's what the Princeton study is saying.

[sophisticated_soul]

That mentality is still out there, folks!

And not just with straight folk either. After I wrote the post I considered not posting it, concerned that it might be misinterpreted or sound "too gay".:rolleyes:

[Jerry Oz]

Hillary Clinton is that neighbor who doesn't clean up her dog poop and makes your yard smell bad.
Donald Trump is the factory at the end of the street that has a history of dumping toxic waste in communities, causing cancer, birth defects, lung diseases, and a thousand ways to ruin your quality of life.

This election cycle, people keep saying that Trump is not just bad, but dangerous.

The Bernie Bros. hear it and know that it's true but their response to it is "but I'm tired of smelling her shit, Yo... He might kill me, but at least he won't irritate me like she does."

[Roberta75]

Hillary Clinton is that neighbor who doesn't clean up her dog poop and makes your yard smell bad.
Donald Trump is the factory at the end of the street that has a history of dumping toxic waste in communities, causing cancer, birth defects, lung diseases, and a thousand ways to ruin your quality of life.

This election cycle, people keep saying that Trump is not just bad, but dangerous.

The Bernie Bros. hear it and know that it's true but their response to it is "but I'm tired of smelling her shit, Yo... He might kill me, but at least he won't irritate me like she does."

Now what you just said just sums it up for me perfectly. Hillary has her faults but Trumps dangerous and irational and vindictive and petty and sexist and racist and a misoginist and totally unfit for ANY public opffice.

[soulster]

Agreed. And the UK gets involved in everything the US does... All the more reason why I don't want the US starting any more unnecessary wars, and especially not with Russia. Trump would be more likely to do that. The minute Putin says or does something a president trump doesn't like, he will turn on them like he does with anyone he perceives as attacking him. He's a schoolyard bully, and admits he has a thin skin...on camera.

And, BTW, why don't you give us some specific examples of how Democrats have screwed the U.S..

[Roberta75]

Trump would be more likely to do that. The minute Putin says or does something a president trump doesn't like, he will turn on them like he does with anyone he perceives as attacking him. He's a schoolyard bully, and admits he has a thin skin...on camera.

And, BTW, why don't you give us some specific examples of how Democrats have screwed the U.S..

Hes got the thinnest skin of any man i know and hes unfit to serve the country or be the leader of the free world. Hes a petty and vindictive and dangerrous man.

[soulster]

Hes got the thinnest skin of any man i know and hes unfit to serve the country or be the leader of the free world. Hes a petty and vindictive and dangerrous man.

Yes, he is, yes he is!

Oh, get this: he's trying to make a play for Blacks again, telling us that he will put more police in our neighborhoods, improve our neighborhoods, schools, and give us high-paying jobs...all the while deporting "illegals". There are so many things wrong and insulting in this latest pitch that I don't know where to begin!

And, he said this to a White audience! He is talking to them, not us. He has never addressed a Black audience, and refuses to do so. He's trying to convince White people that he's not a racist, and he doesn't want to upset his neo-nazi fans.

[Roberta75]

Yes, he is, yes he is!

Oh, get this: he's trying to make a play for Blacks again, telling us that he will put more police in our neighborhoods, improve our neighborhoods, schools, and give us high-paying jobs...all the while deporting "illegals". There are so many things wrong and insulting in this latest pitch that I don't know where to begin!

And, he said this to a White audience! He is talking to them, not us. He has never addressed a Black audience, and refuses to do so. He's trying to convince White people that he's not a racist, and he doesn't want to upset his neo-nazi fans.

Hes disgusting and has no interest in any minority but the alt right white voter. I saw on CNN this morning that his brand is falling and that new hotel in DC isnt even booked. They had discounted rooms last night when all the other luxery hotels was sold out.

[soulster]

Hes disgusting and has no interest in any minority but the alt right white voter.

That's right! And the coded message to his White fans is that if he fixes the "Black" neighborhoods, schools, and keeps Blacks from shootin' Blacks, maybe Blacks will stay away from them.

[Jerry Oz]

Well, there is a reason why David Duke wholeheartedly supports Drumpf in spite of his forced and insincere "denouncing" of him.

[Roberta75]

Well, there is a reason why David Duke wholeheartedly supports Drumpf in spite of his forced and insincere "denouncing" of him.

And it was real forced and took a long time for Trump to denouce the KKK and Duke.

[jobeterob]

I hope you will all get out and vote and do your best to keep Donald Trump out of office. Can you imagine what people in China, India, Iran and well, every other civilized country, think when this clown who is running for President said "I went after her like a bitch" "I tried to fu.k her" and I grab them by the pu..y because I'm famous, I can do it?

And what happens when his thin skin is pierced? Is he going to nuke North Korea when Kim el Chubby tell him to kiss his ass?

Or does he plan to give Putin a blow job?

Astonishing this has happened in the USA but as they say, it is a divided country.

[soulster]

I hope you will all get out and vote and do your best to keep Donald Trump out of office. Can you imagine what people in China, India, Iran and well, every other civilized country, think when this clown who is running for President said "I went after her like a bitch" "I tried to fu.k her" and I grab them by the pu..y because I'm famous, I can do it?

And what happens when his thin skin is pierced? Is he going to nuke North Korea when Kim el Chubby tell him to kiss his ass?

Or does he plan to give Putin a blow job?

Astonishing this has happened in the USA but as they say, it is a divided country. And, Calvin wonders why we would vote for Hillary Clinton . All one has to do is look at the extensive number of serious negatives Trump has to realize why.

Now Trump's last hope is to discourage women, minorities, and anyone else he has offended to not vote at all. And, when they talk about Clinton's negatives, and try to put Bill in the mix, that's what they hope to accomplish.

[phil]

I hope you will all get out and vote and do your best to keep Donald Trump out of office. Can you imagine what people in China, India, Iran and well, every other civilized country, think when this clown who is running for President said "I went after her like a bitch" "I tried to fu.k her" and I grab them by the pu..y because I'm famous, I can do it?

And what happens when his thin skin is pierced? Is he going to nuke North Korea when Kim el Chubby tell him to kiss his ass?

Or does he plan to give Putin a blow job?

Astonishing this has happened in the USA but as they say, it is a divided country.

Divided it is, when tou think that a big part of it is ready to vote for this clown. It may seem scary, but to me it just shows how tired and disgusted by the usual politicians normal/low classes people are.
It's the same here in France and in other Europeans countries where right wing[[fascist) parties get more and more votes. Sad but true.

[soulster]

It may seem scary, but to me it just shows how tired and disgusted by the usual politicians normal/low classes people are.

THis is where you're mistaken. The mostly white middle-class males are the ones for Trump. You see the surrogates on TV are mostly young women, but that's nothing but window-dressing. The Trump people have been trying to make it look like all types of people like him, but the truth is that white women who say they support Trump are usually older and married, and may secretly vote for Clinton, or not at all. Those one or two Blacks and Latinix you see standing behind him at rallies are either planted there, or are far-right religious nuts.

There is a reason Trump once said that he loves uneducated people. That's because they are too dumb to realize he's conning them. And, the truth is that very few wealthy people are supporting him.

[Jerry Oz]

Divided it is, when tou think that a big part of it is ready to vote for this clown. It may seem scary, but to me it just shows how tired and disgusted by the usual politicians normal/low classes people are.
It's the same here in France and in other Europeans countries where right wing[[fascist) parties get more and more votes. Sad but true.
As Soulster will tell you, the US is becoming increasingly diverse and that scares a lot of people. By the middle of the century, White people will no longer be the majority of the population and that scares some people. At some point, race will be less of an issue, so the next phase of the culture war will be centered around class. It stands to reason that if 1% controls most of the money in the economy, a unified working class is a significant threat. They won't keep us separated for much longer.

Consequently, minorities are systematically repressed with decreased earning potential and strikingly less educational opportunities. That, along with the promotion of minority men being the Boogie Man will stifle the process for a few decades, but not much longer than that. The social mechanism had to be preserved, so we now have the highest rate of incarceration in the world. We also have witnessed the near total destruction of the Black family. Before you ask me "whose fault is that?", realize that Black Americans have the highest rate of poverty and that most of our problems are similarly manifested in impoverished communities, regardless of race.

Now, add xenophobia to the mix to further delay the coming revolution. Drumpf has no intention of kicking undocumented immigrants out because our economy depends on them doing jobs no fat and happy American will do for $2 per hour. It's all an attempt to delay the upcoming grasp of economic power from the controllers by the working masses. No, I'm not talking about a socialist or communist revolution. But there is a reason why Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered when he shifted his focus from racial inequities to matters of class.

[soulster]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/28/opinions/trump-campaign-narcissism-lipman/index.html

[Jerry Oz]

Well, now the FBI is starting a new e-mail investigation, two weeks before the election.

[thomas96]

Hillary is a criminal and a traitor and should be punished for her crimes. I know many people who have worked for the pentagon over the past 50 years and they all say to me that if it were one of them doing what Hillary did, they'd be executed. And these aren't conservative people telling me this, these are both sides.

Trump may be a giant douchebag but he's not a criminal or traitor.

[phil]

Soulster and Jerry : I know what you say and I agree with you.

Some years ago i was surprised that so much americans didn't vote, now,it's the same here in France and I can understand why : there's no candidate who'll change their/our lives.

Today politicians don't have no power, they're tied to Banks and lobbys.

[Jerry Oz]

Hillary is a criminal and a traitor and should be punished for her crimes. I know many people who have worked for the pentagon over the past 50 years and they all say to me that if it were one of them doing what Hillary did, they'd be executed. And these aren't conservative people telling me this, these are both sides.

Trump may be a giant douchebag but he's not a criminal or traitor.
Trump solicited business in Cuba before relations were restored. He is absolutely a traitor. He also used monies donated to his charitable foundation to pay off his legal fees, bribe public employees to stop investigating his real estate classes, and to purchase things for himself. He is absolutely a criminal.

And if Hillary should be executed, should they first be complaining about Colin Powell, who did the same thing that she did? Or did your Pentagon friends not have a comment about that?

[soulster]

Hillary is a criminal and a traitor and should be punished for her crimes. I know many people who have worked for the pentagon over the past 50 years and they all say to me that if it were one of them doing what Hillary did, they'd be executed. And these aren't conservative people telling me this, these are both sides.

Trump may be a giant douchebag but he's not a criminal or traitor.

1) There is no evidence that Clinton did anything wrong. She has never been prosecuted and tried in a court of law. Therefore, she is not a criminal. And, if you have legal evidence to share with us, please do. Otherwise, you have nothing.

2) Donald J. Trump has committed arguable treasonous acts like inviting a foreign government to hack into the U.S, Government. He is also about to be sued for sexualcrimmunal behavior. Even if no lawsuits or charges are filed, he has already admitted to criminal acts to Billy Bush. And, for everything you say Hillary Clinton is hiding in emails, Trump is hiding by not releasing his tax returns. What is he hiding? Has he committed tax fraud? Donald Trump, and his father settled with the feds for housing discrimination. They even have his father on tape. The case is of public record. No, the Trumps cut a deal so they didn't have to admit guilt, but the case is there for all to see. Hey, look: as long as you can accuse Hillary of being a criminal, we can accuse Trump of being a criminal.

And, Hillary Clinton never punched her mother. Donald J. Trump said he did, and never apologized for it. he cheated on his wives and never apologized for it.

Who's worse? I'l vote for Clinton any day. Trump should never be allowed near the White House!

[soulster]

Well, now the FBI is starting a new e-mail investigation, two weeks before the election.

The FBI director had better come up with some details or it's nothing more than politics and trying to sway the vote.

[Roberta75]

1) There is no evidence that Clinton did anything wrong. She has never been prosecuted and tried in a court of law. Therefore, she is not a criminal. And, if you have legal evidence to share with us, please do. Otherwise, you have nothing.

2) Donald J. Trump has committed arguable treasonous acts like inviting a foreign government to hack into the U.S, Government. He is also about to be sued for sexualcrimmunal behavior. Even if no lawsuits or charges are filed, he has already admitted to criminal acts to Billy Bush. And, for everything you say Hillary Clinton is hiding in emails, Trump is hiding by not releasing his tax returns. What is he hiding? Has he committed tax fraud? Donald Trump, and his father settled with the feds for housing discrimination. They even have his father on tape. The case is of public record. No, the Trumps cut a deal so they didn't have to admit guilt, but the case is there for all to see. Hey, look: as long as you can accuse Hillary of being a criminal, we can accuse Trump of being a criminal.

And, Hillary Clinton never punched her mother. Donald J. Trump said he did, and never apologized for it. he cheated on his wives and never apologized for it.

Who's worse? I'l vote for Clinton any day. Trump should never be allowed near the White House!

Yes...........I couldnt agree with you moreHillary is far more qualifies to be President and shes is lever headed and calm and very smart. Trump is DANGEROUS and dumb about domestic and foreign policy.

[soulster]

And Anthony Weiner's computer? Again, unless they can tell us exactly what is in the emails, and if any laws were broken, they have nothing...NOTHING!

[Jerry Oz]

A lot of legal people are shocked that Comey would pull anything like this. The first thing she needs to do as president is to fire him. Hopefully people see it for what it is. It reeks of partisanship.

[soulster]

Here's some fact checking on the current email crap:

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/fact-checking-everything-trump-clinton-said-about-fbi-s-email-n675011

[calvin]

New York magazine, Oct 26:
"Clinton Adviser Proposes Attacking Iran to Aid the Saudis in Yemen"
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/clinton-adviser-lets-attack-iran-to-aid-saudis-in-yemen.html?mid=fb-share-di

Here's this same Clinton advisor [[Michael Morell) on Charlie Rose in August, advocating killing Iranians and Russians "covertly" in Syria and launching a bombing campaign [[it's a short clip, less than 2 minutes, but chilling - note Rose's nervous laughter at 0:46):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ivt2NmbyGg

Washington Post:
"Washington’s foreign policy elite breaks with Obama over Syrian bloodshed"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/washington-foreign-policy-elites-not-sorry-to-see-obama-go/2016/10/20/bd2334a2-9228-11e6-9c52-0b10449e33c4_story.html

"In the rarefied world of the Washington foreign policy establishment, President Obama’s departure from the White House — and the possible return of a more conventional and hawkish Hillary Clinton — is being met with quiet relief."
"...the bipartisan nature of the recent recommendations, coming at a time when the country has never been more polarized, reflects a remarkable consensus among the foreign policy elite.
This consensus is driven by a broad-based backlash against a president [Obama] who has repeatedly stressed the dangers of overreach and the need for restraint, especially in the Middle East."

Translation: Obama tried to restrain the neocons [["the foreign policy elite"), but under Hillary they will regain control over US foreign policy because she is one of them.

The US is already currently bombing in seven countries:
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/oct/21/jill-stein/jill-stein-green-party-candidate-correct-about-us-/

More to come in January...

[splanky]

More to come in January...

So what does this do for folks today?... It's time for people to make their choice RIGHT NOW,
calvin... The election is just days away, it's even too late to push a third party candidate. I
think it says a lot about how fu*ked this country is when Bump and Pill are the best we can
come up with as far as choices from either party to lead this nation...Really f.................

[calvin]

Really f.................

Yeah Splanky, that pretty much sums it up.

[TomatoTom123]

The third party candidate doesn't seem like much either...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKb2oiJluLk&app=desktop

[robb_k]

The third party candidate doesn't seem like much either...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKb2oiJluLk&app=desktop
11938
At least he's heard of Syria. I'd be afraid to find out how few Americans knew where Syria was before the current refugee crisis [[or, indeed where Washington D.C. is, or the fact that USA is partly made up of French, Dutch, Swedish and Danish colonies, and that Pennsylvania citizens had to vote on whether to make their official language German or English, just before their joining The United States of America, or that Jews do not have horns and tails).

[calvin]

The third party candidate doesn't seem like much either...

There's also Jill Stein of the Green Party. Of course neither she nor Johnson will win, but voting for one of them sends a message of protest.

[Jerry Oz]

So what does this do for folks today?... It's time for people to make their choice RIGHT NOW,
calvin... The election is just days away, it's even too late to push a third party candidate. I
think it says a lot about how fu*ked this country is when Bump and Pill are the best we can
come up with as far as choices from either party to lead this nation...Really f.................It's much ado about nothing. These complaints are made every election cycle about every leading candidate. Clinton has been on the receiving end of a lot of BS that's been taken out of context. My brother-in-law doesn't want to vote for her because he's heard that she's had over 100 political rivals killed. Seriously.

Also, for all of the WikiLeaks e-mails released, not one has her name on it. Guess what? When people strategize, the process is to literally put everything out for discussion. Sometimes, that means you're going to push the limits of propriety. Brainstorming reduces the long list of "what ifs" to the actual plan for the future. But you put everything out to make sure you consider everything. By the way: We haven't seen Johnson's, Stein's, Sanders', or Trump's e-mails. Do you suppose there are not some interesting things in any of them?

Every clown with an axe to grind has come out of the woodwork this election, not considering that if Clinton is "corrupt", she may be the least corrupt of all of them. If they are politicians, then they are in bed with shady people. I can make similar claims to Calvin's case against Clinton about everybody else in this race but I won't. Because it's a stupid and immature thing to do.

Why do you suppose Calvin hasn't made the case against anyone else?

[calvin]

It's much ado about nothing.

I hope you're right.


These complaints are made every election cycle about every leading candidate.

I did not make any such arguments about Obama 4 or 8 years ago. In 2008, McCain was the frightening candidate. If you recall, he wanted to fight Russia over Georgia.


If they are politicians, then they are in bed with shady people.

The Clintons are not only in bed with shady people, they are shady themselves. Yes, so is Trump. Jill Stein does not appear to be [[but how can anyone know for sure). I don't know about Johnson.


Why do you suppose Calvin hasn't made the case against anyone else?

I guess for two reasons. Firstly, no one in this thread is raving over any of the other candidates. Secondly, if Clinton gets us into a war with Russia, that is the worst-case scenario and nothing else will matter.

As I wrote before, I view Hillary as a frightening choice. Maybe that's only because she's a "known" quantity, and not in a good way. I admit that I can't predict the future to know which candidate will plunge the world into more unnecessary wars, possibly even a nuclear war. But neither can you. We can only guess.

Also again, I can understand someone voting for Hillary [[or even Trump) as the lesser of the two evils. I honestly don't know which one would be worse [[and neither do you), but I think either will be bad, in different ways. I could have voted but chose not to, months ago.

Ok, I've had my say and I see that I'm not welcome here [["stupid and immature"), so I won't interrupt the fawning over Hillary with another post. It's really a waste of time anyway - nothing anyone writes here is going to make a difference.

[robb_k]

11942
It's too bad that both major US political parties are run by big money, and the funding and media rules make it such that no other parties can have any chance to win a presidential, gubernatorial or senatorial election. Unfortunately, it will take a unified national strike of all essential service workers for an extended period [[which almost all working people can't afford), or, more likely, a bloody revolution, to change the system to at least a semi-representative government. Currently, only the wealthiest 5-10% of the population [[at best) is represented by that country's government. To those people that state that USA is a democracy, -I say to you, it was NEVER even remotely a democracy. It WAS a representative republic, for White male landowners, when started.

Even Denmark, where the entire registered voting population get to vote on many issues and laws, is not a true democracy, but more a representative government, as there are many situations where governmental decisions, rules and laws are made or instigated, for which they do not vote, but must depend on a voted in representative, or an official appointed by a voted in official. At least, in Denmark [[Sweden, Finland, Norway, The Netherlands, Canada, New Zealand, and some other countries, the voted-in representatives are somewhat responsive to the mass of their constituents.) The US Republicans and Democrats are only helping the billionaires and multi-millionaires [[$20 million +) amongst their ranks.

[TomatoTom123]

At least he's heard of Syria. I'd be afraid to find out how few Americans knew where Syria was before the current refugee crisis [[or, indeed where Washington D.C. is, or the fact that USA is partly made up of French, Dutch, Swedish and Danish colonies, and that Pennsylvania citizens had to vote on whether to make their official language German or English, just before their joining The United States of America, or that Jews do not have horns and tails).

LOL, are they really that bad? Oh dear, maybe Trump will win...

[TomatoTom123]

Once again, I can understand someone voting for Hillary [[or even Trump) as the lesser of the two evils. I honestly don't know which one would be worse [[and neither do you), but I think either will be bad, in different ways. I could have voted but chose not to, months ago.

Ok, I've had my say and I see that I'm not welcome here, so I won't interrupt the fawning over Hillary with another post. It's really a waste of time anyway - nothing anyone writes here is going to make a difference.

calvin, you are definitely welcome here! You are right about Hillary, she is flawed, and probably corrupt, but sadly the alternative is Donald Trump, LOL! I would also say that you should still vote, just go for the Green Party's candidate [[not the "What is Aleppo?" guy, hehe) and exercise your democratic right! :)

Also, how dare you belittle the forum?!! LOL! This thread could affect the result with all the lurkers reading it or something, hehehe ;)

[Jerry Oz]

I hope you're right.



I did not make any such arguments about Obama 4 or 8 years ago. In 2008, McCain was the frightening candidate. If you recall, he wanted to fight Russia over Georgia.



The Clintons are not only in bed with shady people, they are shady themselves. Yes, so is Trump. Jill Stein does not appear to be [[but how can anyone know for sure). I don't know about Johnson.



I guess for two reasons. Firstly, no one in this thread is raving over any of the other candidates. Secondly, if Clinton gets us into a war with Russia, that is the worst-case scenario and nothing else will matter.

As I wrote before, I view Hillary as a frightening choice. Maybe that's only because she's a "known" quantity, and not in a good way. I admit that I can't predict the future to know which candidate will plunge the world into more unnecessary wars, possibly even a nuclear war. But neither can you. We can only guess.

Also again, I can understand someone voting for Hillary [[or even Trump) as the lesser of the two evils. I honestly don't know which one would be worse [[and neither do you), but I think either will be bad, in different ways. I could have voted but chose not to, months ago.

Ok, I've had my say and I see that I'm not welcome here [["stupid and immature"), so I won't interrupt the fawning over Hillary with another post. It's really a waste of time anyway - nothing anyone writes here is going to make a difference.
I don't fawn over anyone. If I prefer her over Trump, it's because I don't think she will start a war with Russia and I take him to his word that his version of criminal justice reform means giving police more leeway to use force and to stop and frisk young Black men because they are Black. She has zero reason to start a war with Russia and it's borderline disingenuous to suggest it. Meanwhile, his words are his witness to his intent. I'm pretty sure his civil war is more likely to happen than her world war.

By the way, I should not have used words like "stupid" or "immature" toward you and regardless of my disagreement with your views or your passion for expressing them, I recognize your right to freely discuss them. Please don't let my stupid and immature words drive you away.

[TomatoTom123]

It's too bad that both major US political parties are run by big money, and the funding and media rules make it such that no other parties can have any chance to win a presidential, gubernatorial or senatorial election. Unfortunately, it will take a unified national strike of all essential service workers for an extended period [[which almost all working people can't afford), or, more likely, a bloody revolution, to change the system to at least a semi-representative government. Currently, only the wealthiest 5-10% of the population [[at best) is represented by that country's government. To those people that state that USA is a democracy, -I say to you, it was NEVER even remotely a democracy. It WAS a representative republic, for White male landowners, when started.

Even Denmark, where the entire registered voting population get to vote on many issues and laws, is not a true democracy, but more a representative government, as there are many situations where governmental decisions, rules and laws are made or instigated, for which they do not vote, but must depend on a voted in representative, or an official appointed by a voted in official. At least, in Denmark [[Sweden, Finland, Norway, The Netherlands, Canada, New Zealand, and some other countries, the voted-in representatives are somewhat responsive to the mass of their constituents.) The US Republicans and Democrats are only helping the billionaires and multi-millionaires [[$20 million +) amongst their ranks.

Sadly, Robb, that is all true! I think the UK's system is somewhat more democratic than America's but it's still flawed. There are several national parties but the system is dominated by the two main ones and doesn't really represent the people. When you use proportional representation, however, parties don't easily gain majorities and have to form coalitions, which can be unstable. Political problems, eh??!! Lol

[soulster]

So what does this do for folks today?... It's time for people to make their choice RIGHT NOW,
calvin... The election is just days away, it's even too late to push a third party candidate. I
think it says a lot about how fu*ked this country is when Bump and Pill are the best we can
come up with as far as choices from either party to lead this nation...Really f.................
You mean Hillary Trump and Donald Clinton.

[Jerry Oz]

Sadly, Robb, that is all true! I think the UK's system is somewhat more democratic than America's but it's still flawed. There are several national parties but the system is dominated by the two main ones and doesn't really represent the people. When you use proportional representation, however, parties don't easily gain majorities and have to form coalitions, which can be unstable. Political problems, eh??!! Lol
You cannot have a true representative democracy with 300+ million people. The only way to pass laws is to form coalitions. In the past, we had legislators who had views on the far left, middle, far right, socially conservative/fiscally liberal, and socially liberal/fiscally conservative sides.

Regardless of party, they worked together to serve their constituents. Since President Obama took office, Republicans have staunchly obstructed, even to the detriment of the nation and in some cases, the world. They lost support if they cooperated and were soon voted out. Consequently, the limited amount of representation is now limited to what the GOP wants and what the Democrats want.

It's so silly that the president has tried to enact legislation that was proposed by the Republicans and they voted it down so he couldn't take credit for it. If America isn't still great, that's one reason why.

[soulster]

I guess for two reasons. Firstly, no one in this thread is raving over any of the other candidates. Secondly, if Clinton gets us into a war with Russia, that is the worst-case scenario and nothing else will matter.

Clinton is not going to get us in a war with Russia. And, just so you know, foreign policy, while important for many reasons these days, is not the main concern of the U.S. citizens. Domestic policy is.


As I wrote before, I view Hillary as a frightening choice. Maybe that's only because she's a "known" quantity, and not in a good way. I admit that I can't predict the future to know which candidate will plunge the world into more unnecessary wars, possibly even a nuclear war. But neither can you. We can only guess. Trust me: Trump is much worse because of his incredible ignorance, and his unpredictable behavior.


Also again, I can understand someone voting for Hillary [[or even Trump) as the lesser of the two evils. I honestly don't know which one would be worse [[and neither do you), but I think either will be bad, in different ways. I could have voted but chose not to, months ago.

I don't know what kind of news you get in the U.K., but if you saw, heard, and read all the things we do, you'd see how much worse Trump is. God help us if he gets elected.


Ok, I've had my say and I see that I'm not welcome here [["stupid and immature"), so I won't interrupt the fawning over Hillary with another post. It's really a waste of time anyway - nothing anyone writes here is going to make a difference.

We are certainly not fawning, but Hillary has more plusses than Trump ever will. I would have rather had Joe Biden run. Joe Biden vs. Marco Rubio would have been a better matchup.

[TomatoTom123]

You cannot have a true representative democracy with 300+ million people.

Yes, sadly that is true as well


Regardless of party, politicians worked together to serve their constituents. Since President Obama took office, Republicans have staunchly obstructed, even to the detriment of the nation and in some cases, the world. They lost support if they cooperated and were soon voted out. Consequently, the limited amount of representation is now limited to what the GOP wants and what the Democrats want.

Why are the Republicans so against the policies of Barack Obama?? Why do they oppose him when it is to the detriment of their own country? That doesn't do any good to anyone, does it?

[[I'm not too familiar with American politics, hehe)


It's so silly that the president has tried to enact legislation that was proposed by the Republicans and they voted it down so he couldn't take credit for it. If America isn't still great, that's one reason why.

Wow, lol

[Jerry Oz]

Soon after he was elected, President Obama held a meeting with Republican leaders of Congress. Typically, the president sets the agenda and the legislators figure out how to make it work. The GOP leaders made it known that even with Democrats controlling the House and Senate would be following their agenda, not the other way around. He famously said "Fellas, I'm the one who was elected president" and they immediately stonewalled.

The Democrats basically handled the rebound from the global economic collapse by themselves because the other party figured it would easier to regain control if the country was still suffering in the next election cycle.

Many don't know that the Affordable Care Act is based on a blueprint created by conservatives. Yet, they still opposed it and refused to negotiate better provisions. Not long after that, the nation lost what was left of its soul.

[soulster]

Why are the Republicans so against the policies of Barack Obama?? Why do they oppose him when it is to the detriment of their own country? That doesn't do any good to anyone, does it?

1) He's not White
2) He's liberal
3) As i've noted before, he got in the way of their long-term strategy of dominating U.S. politics

A LOT of republicans will deny #1, but that is really behind most of it. Race.

[soulster]

The vengeful world of Donald Trump, and exactly why he's so dangerous.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/analysis-vengeful-world-donald-trump-why-it-matters-n671721

[TomatoTom123]

1) He's not White
2) He's liberal
3) As i've noted before, he got in the way of their long-term strategy of dominating U.S. politics

A LOT of republicans will deny #1, but that is really behind most of it. Race.

Wow, that's shameful

[Jerry Oz]

It's true. Having a congressman shout "you lie!" during his state of the union address is unprecedented in American politics but that tool from South Carolina did it without worrying about it. Having SCOTUS Justice Alito sit in the front row of another one and emphatically scowl was also disrespectful. For eight years, they've felt comfortable ignoring his position while attacking him. There used to a level of respect given to the president, regardless of who held the title.

They attempted to use his name as a pejorative by referring to the Affordable Care Act as "Obamacare" but he took bite out of it by telling them he liked the name. They also stopped paying the country's bills TWICE for ridiculous reasons to try to make him look bad. And still, the country has bounced back from the recession stronger than other Western economies.

[soulster]

And a lot of the obstruction is about trying to make the people suffer so bad that they will vote republican.

[Roberta75]

The choice is real clear imo. Im with her.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/10/clinton_vs_trump_whose_crimes_are_worse.html

[Jerry Oz]

Rush Limbaugh spoke for a lot of them when he said that he'd prefer to see the country fail for four years than succeed under president elect Obama. Very patriotic.

[soulster]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/data-points/poll-clinton-maintains-national-lead-over-trump-despite-fbi-letter-n675771

[marv2]

Rush Limbaugh spoke for a lot of them when he said that he'd prefer to see the country fail for four years than succeed under president elect Obama. Very patriotic.

The Republicans were absolute in their decision to obstruct President Obama from day one! They do not care about the American people. What they care about is having power and pushing their agenda.

[TomatoTom123]

The Republicans were absolute in their decision to obstruct President Obama from day one! They do not care about the American people. What they care about is having power and pushing their agenda.

That's just awful. I thought the aim of political parties was to improve people's lives, and make the world a better place!

[soulster]

Tom, I don't know where you came up with that, but the aim of political parties has always been about power and control.

[TomatoTom123]

Tom, I don't know where you came up with that, but the aim of political parties has always been about power and control.

Yea, I think I was being optimistic, LOL

[arr&bee]

I've often wondered about this..couldn't obama have had the sargent at arms remove that idiot for being disrespectful to the office of the president?

[Jerry Oz]

Nope. Part of having freedoms is knowing that the limits on them are few. You can state your beliefs as long as you don't willfully convey a lie as the truth. Trump knew the president was born in the US, but good luck proving that he did. The remarkable thing is that he could have been born on the moon and still been a US native because his mom is a citizen. The press is aware of this and still made it seem though that was a story that needed to be covered.

[thomas96]

Tom, I don't know where you came up with that, but the aim of political parties has always been about power and control.

And which party wants a bigger government with more power and control?

[Roberta75]

And which party wants a bigger government with more power and control?

And which party wants to overturn roe v wade and take away a woman right to choose and punish a woman for having an abortion and take us out of NATO and ban all muslims and throw undocummented people out of the country even those who have kids born here and cut benefits for people living in poverty and would reduce the minimum wage and would have a total homophobe hater as a Vice President if elected and would have a President who is a racist bigot who thinks he can grab a woman by the vagina and calls women pigs and fat.

Im with her. Vote for Hillary Clinton next Tuesday [[http://soulfuldetroit.com/x-apple-data-detectors://0).

[TomatoTom123]

And which party wants to overturn roe v wade and take away a woman right to choose and punish a woman for having an abortion and take us out of NATO and ban all muslims and throw undocummented people out of the country even those who have kids born here and cut benefits for people living in poverty and would reduce the minimum wage and would have a total homophobe hater as a Vice President if elected and would have a President who is a racist bigot who thinks he can grab a woman by the vagina and calls women pigs and fat.

Very well said, Roberta! That about sums it up as to why you shouldn't vote for Donald Trump!! I just hope the American people agree...

[Roberta75]

Very well said, Roberta! That about sums it up as to why you shouldn't vote for Donald Trump!! I just hope the American people agree...

I think the American people will reject Dangerous Donald dear but dont pay attention to the polls even the good ones. We need to get everty Democrat we know to vote next Tuesday.

[Roberta75]

Trump is the part of the KKK.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kkk-donald-trump_us_5818d0c8e4b064e1b4b50849

[TomatoTom123]

Trump is the part of the KKK.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kkk-donald-trump_us_5818d0c8e4b064e1b4b50849

I know it's bad - considering that he is one of two people that could become President of the United States - but that doesn't surprise me at all.

[TomatoTom123]

This guy actually CRACKS me up...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i3u6rAOoSI&app=desktop

Vote Libertarian Gary Johnson! LOLOLOL