A Question about RTL

[marybrewster]

I'm probably going to regret asking, and my apologies to Ralph if I unintentionally create drama, but I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts:

[[PLEASE PLAY NICE!)

Do you think IF Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong had joined Miss Diana Ross on tour for RTL that it would have been a success, and would have played all the dates?

The reason I ask is this:

I know when RTL was scheduled to come to Minneapolis, the tickets ranged from $60.00 [[nose bleed) to $250.00 [[floor seating). These ticket prices were based, in part one would think, on the salaries that Scherrie Payne and Lynda Lawrence were given. Lets just say a million each.

If Mary would have joined [[at five million) and Cindy would have joined [[at three million), one would have to guess that the $60.00 and $250.00 tickets would be more like $85.00 and $400.00.

Now, the venue they were to play at, at least in Minneapolis, was the Target Center. The capacity is just less than 20,000. I cannot imagine, at those prices, that EVEN WITH Mary and Cindy, that the Target Center would have even come close to selling out. In New York, in Madison Square Garden? Yes. In Vegas? Of course. But in the Midwest? I doubt it.

I'm beginning to think the "failure" of RTL was less about the players, and more about the ticket prices, and venue sizes.

I'll be seeing Diana in July and I have 5th row tickets [[yay!) that were $77.00 each. This in a much smaller, realistic venue.

Where was RTL supposed to play in your area? What were the ticket prices, and what was the venue size? Do you think it would have sold out, taking into consideration "adjusted" ticket pricing for larger payouts?

[RossHolloway]

Just let it go already...

[marv2]

I'm probably going to regret asking, and my apologies to Ralph if I unintentionally create drama, but I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts:

[[PLEASE PLAY NICE!)

Do you think IF Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong had joined Miss Diana Ross on tour for RTL that it would have been a success, and would have played all the dates?

The reason I ask is this:

I know when RTL was scheduled to come to Minneapolis, the tickets ranged from $60.00 [[nose bleed) to $250.00 [[floor seating). These ticket prices were based, in part one would think, on the salaries that Scherrie Payne and Lynda Lawrence were given. Lets just say a million each.

If Mary would have joined [[at five million) and Cindy would have joined [[at three million), one would have to guess that the $60.00 and $250.00 tickets would be more like $85.00 and $400.00.

Now, the venue they were to play at, at least in Minneapolis, was the Target Center. The capacity is just less than 20,000. I cannot imagine, at those prices, that EVEN WITH Mary and Cindy, that the Target Center would have even come close to selling out. In New York, in Madison Square Garden? Yes. In Vegas? Of course. But in the Midwest? I doubt it.

I'm beginning to think the "failure" of RTL was less about the players, and more about the ticket prices, and venue sizes.

I'll be seeing Diana in July and I have 5th row tickets [[yay!) that were $77.00 each. This in a much smaller, realistic venue.

Where was RTL supposed to play in your area? What were the ticket prices, and what was the venue size? Do you think it would have sold out, taking into consideration "adjusted" ticket pricing for larger payouts?


When the tour was first announced it was talked about by the general media as the concert event of the Millennium.
It would have easily played all of the scheduled dates at just about any ticket price they were asking. The show would have also played any dates arranged in Europe, Japan, etc.

The show was to be held at the Jones Beach Theater, Long Island, NY. The show was cancelled all together because they sold hardly any tickets for that date.

Had Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong received the offers you mention, they would have done the tour [[even with the way the show was planned without their inputs).

Their probably would have been DVD's and CD's released of the show.

[BayouMotownMan]

Mary your observation is spot on. The production was overblown and overpriced for a trio of ladies no longer in their prime.

I think if Mary and Cindy were to have done the tour it might not have closed as early as it did. In fact, all dates might have been met but not as sell-outs. Everyone was complaining of the prices, all the theatrics, dancers and additional singers. Cindy was not up to performance level even in 2000 so that would have been a problem as well.

In hindsight, a few performances with just the ladies and a band starting in NYC, then Houston, Chicago, LA and closing in Detroit would have been a better plan.

[Jimi LaLumia]

no one can predict how the original plan would have worked out.. the real RTL would have international coverage of the group's history and legacy, tv and print media special coverage of a positive nature... the hair pulling cat fight brought international coverage of a negative nature, and the fallout from that affected all three ladies.. if the real deal had happened, I think those prices would have been no problem and the shows would have sold out,, it's all speculation, but these type of events when done properly are always successful.. they were the biggest American group of the 1960's with 12 number one singles, a feat that no other U.S. group has ever accomplished.. all the small minded emotional drama damaged the product with, what I at the time, called the sub-premes , the sham-premes, and the pseudo- premes...it's too bad but it's done...over..and out

[marv2]

no one can predict how the original plan would have worked out.. the real RTL would have international coverage of the group's history and legacy, tv and print media special coverage of a positive nature... the hair pulling cat fight brought international coverage of a negative nature, and the fallout from that affected all three ladies.. if the real deal had happened, I think those prices would have been no problem and the shows would have sold out,, it's all speculation, but these type of events when done properly are always successful.. they were the biggest American group of the 1960's with 12 number one singles, a feat that no other U.S. group has ever accomplished.. all the small minded emotional drama damaged the product with, what I at the time, called the sub-premes , the sham-premes, and the pseudo- premes...it's too bad but it's done...over..and out

That was the NY Daily News that called them "The Sub-premes" LOL!

[jobeterob]

Mary did an interview once saying her gigs all dried after the fiasco

Was all a shame and a loss but they survived and are working late in life, even if Mary has to as she said in the interview

They'll never be singing together again sadly

[marv2]

Mary did an interview once saying her gigs all dried after the fiasco

Was all a shame and a loss but they survived and are working late in life, even if Mary has to as she said in the interview

They'll never be singing together again sadly

That is really strange because I saw Mary in concert 3 times during that period. Twice on Long Island and once at B.B. Kings in the city. Luther Vandross was there. I also recall how sad it was for Diana Ross to have to enter rehab twice and then the arrest for DUI. Her husband quit her, Motown dropped her. That failed tour really had a bad affect on some people.

[daviddh]

i think it would have worked. the supremes set the standard for an era and are still the most successful female group. the negative PR knocked the tour. personally, everyone was sick of the drama by this point

[detmotownguy]

That was the NY Daily News that called them "The Sub-premes" LOL!

Well when all is said and done or gone; at least there is that photo of Berry, Mary, and Diane on stage at the Motown 50 play. It Is a great photo of the legends.

[blackguy69]

Mary did an interview once saying her gigs all dried after the fiasco

Was all a shame and a loss but they survived and are working late in life, even if Mary has to as she said in the interview

They'll never be singing together again sadly

I think you misinterpreted what she said. She said her corporate gigs dried up not all of her gigs.

[Jimi LaLumia]

she made it clear that she's not exactly rolling in the $$$$....and we'll leave it at that... her words in that interview speak for themselves, no one needs to try and interpret them..

[marv2]

With as many friends and family that Mary Wilson has, it is the most appropriate thing to say...............

[Bluebrock]

Mary your observation is spot on. The production was overblown and overpriced for a trio of ladies no longer in their prime.

I think if Mary and Cindy were to have done the tour it might not have closed as early as it did. In fact, all dates might have been met but not as sell-outs. Everyone was complaining of the prices, all the theatrics, dancers and additional singers. Cindy was not up to performance level even in 2000 so that would have been a problem as well.

In hindsight, a few performances with just the ladies and a band starting in NYC, then Houston, Chicago, LA and closing in Detroit would have been a better plan.
You are so right about Cindy being unfit to embark upon a Nationwide tour. I know a lot of inside information about RTL but i am unwilling to start WW3 on this forum, and for the sake of peace, love and harmony i shall keep quiet.

[daviddh]

thanks Bluebrock, but if....you want to share it.feel free to email me
loved the supremes.always wanted to see them live, but now never.sorry.it could have been great

[daviddh]

to bad they didn't try and 2 weeks run or some limited engagement ,like they do in Vegas...but I think the original tour was 22 dates. I don't think that was to much. I think they deal was if it did well, they could continue on and they were other deals on the table inc a hbo specia....,live from vegas, a cd was planned from the tour etc. and a UK tour was in the works, but ....9 months of negotiations , and WE the fans got nothing

[mysterysinger]

I've no idea what RTL is or was.

[johnny_raven]

I've no idea what RTL is or was.

Ironically called "Return To Love"

[blueskies]

Return to Love was apparently......returned.

[marv2]

Return to Love was apparently......returned.

Return to sender...............address unknown! LOL!!!

[luke]

Cindy Birdsong looked wonderful and her performance was fine in 2004 on Motown Special with Mary and Kelly Rowland.

[marv2]

Cindy Birdsong looked wonderful and her performance was fine in 2004 on Motown Special with Mary and Kelly Rowland.

Interesting point. Cindy said she was ready and very disappointed that it didn't work out. I kinda think that she herself would know if she was up to doing the tour.

[jobeterob]

Cindy Birdsong looked wonderful and her performance was fine in 2004 on Motown Special with Mary and Kelly Rowland.

If she looked ok and sounded okay, then Mary and Kelly must not have because they nearly cut them out of the broadcast and only put it on first off.

[daviddh]

Cindy looked fine to me on the Motown special

[Jimi LaLumia]

re doing a spot for a tv show for one song or medley as a one time thing, is quite different than having to hit the road, live on the road for months and deliver the goods on stage night after night. if you screw up a tv spot, they rewind and let you do it again..there are no rewinds on the road... I spent a lovely afternoon with Cindy when Bernard Jay [[who was also Divine's manager) managed Cindy.. it was an interview, her new single was "Dancing Room",she was fabulous and I wish her nothing but wellness and all good things