Wrong Lead Single - Ross lps

[sup_fan]

in Randy's latest book with the wonderful discography by George Soloman, several of Diana's lps seem to have been hurt by the selection of the wrong lead single. So what do you think SHOULD have been the lead?

Working Overtime - should have issued Bottom Line
Force Behind the Power - i know the international single was When You Tell Me, but US went with title track. i think Change of Heart might have worked better
Eaten Alive ?
Take Me Higher?
Ross 83?
Ross 78?

[sansradio]

For Ross ​'78, unequivocally "You Were the One."

[reese]

I don't mind many of the lead singles of her Motown albums. But off the top of my head, I think having YOU'RE A SPECIAL PART OF ME as the lead single off the DIANA AND MARVIN album was a bad choice, even though it charted well. I would have gone with MY MISTAKE.

Re ROSS '83, I might have gone with LET'S GO UP or LOVE OR LONELINESS instead of PIECES OF ICE.

Re EATEN ALIVE, I definitely would have gone with CHAIN REACTION.

[Bluebrock]

I think I agree with Reese regarding ROSS 83 and EATEN ALIVE singles. Whoever decided that "pieces of ice" could be a major hit single? "chain reaction" could have been as big in the States as it was in the UK if promoted correctly and released as the ist single.

[Guy]

For Ross ​'78, unequivocally "You Were the One."


OMG. To this day, don't know how this song was not a massive hit. Funky groove with enough MOR flavor for radio. That silky voice crescendoing in her uniquely Ross exuberance. I still listen to it all the time: "you were bringing me the sun AND the moon!"

[Bluebrock]

OMG. To this day, don't know how this song was not a massive hit. Funky groove with enough MOR flavor for radio. That silky voice crescendoing in her uniquely Ross exuberance. I still listen to it all the time: "you were bringing me the sun AND the moon!"
I have to agree Guy, but Diana was going through a "quiet" period before "the boss" got her back on track, but that still does not explain why "you were the one" didn't get the nod.

[soulster]

[QUOTE=reese;328606]
Re ROSS '83, I might have gone with LET'S GO UP or LOVE OR LONELINESS instead of PIECES OF ICE.

I'm going to go with a radical opinion here. For the lead single from the 1983 "Ross" album, I would have picked "That's How You Start Over", and "Pieces Of Ice" second. But, remember, 1983 was when the second British Invasion was in full swing in the U.S., and the idea was to put out new-wavish sounding songs, so "Pieces Of Ice" was a very logical and good choice.

1983 was also the year when many other traditional R&B artists releases blatant pop singles to cash in on the sound. Dick Griffey did this for Shalamar by issuing "Dead Giveaway" that year. His purpose was for the very survival of his label, Solar. He never had to worry, though, because he had later success with The Deele, Klymaxx, and Lakeside. Of course, you all don't care about any of that...

[sansradio]

OMG. To this day, don't know how this song was not a massive hit. Funky groove with enough MOR flavor for radio. That silky voice crescendoing in her uniquely Ross exuberance. I still listen to it all the time: "you were bringing me the sun AND the moon!"
I couldn't have stated it better. She really is at the top of her game here. Not to mention the glorious contributions of The Jones Girls.

[captainjames]

I have constantly said that, "You Were The One" was the hidden hit.

[TheMotownManiac]

Working Overtime - Bottom Line [[Original LP mix), Paradise, Workin Overtime, Keep On Dancin
Force Behind the Power - When You Tell Me was correct, but not worked by Motown. The only others with a slim chance: Battlefield, You're Gonna Love It
Eaten Alive Chain Reaction, then Crime Of Passion, then Eaten Alive with new, UNDERSTANDABLE, lead vocal, then Don't Give Up [[recorded in new, lower key)
Take Me Higher- If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right, Gone, Don't Stop [[EMI mix) I Will Survive
Ross 83 - Up Front, That's How You Start Over
Ross 78- Never Say, You Were The One, Where Did We Go Wrong
Swept Away - Missing You, Touch By Touch, Swept Away, Nobody Makes Me Crazy
Red Hot Rhythm & Blues - either Summertime or just forget the entire, useless attempts
Silk Electric- Muscles, Love Lies, In Your Arms, Who
The Boss- No One Gets The Prize, The Boss, I Ain't Been Licked
Baby It's Me - Come In From The Rain, Top Of The World, Same Love That Made Me Laugh, Baby its Me,

[rovereab]

Everything Is Everything's lead single - My Place

[bradsupremes]

"Top Of The World" and "You Got It" should have been the lead singles on Baby It's Me. Those scream hits to me.

[daviddh]

most of the singles I agree with but, Eatin Alive , I would have went with Chain Reaction.,Crimes Of Passion.
Ross 78... You Were The One, Never Say I Don't Love You.
Ross 83... That's How You Start Over....Pieces Of Ice

[Jimi LaLumia]

I love Miss Ross, but I knew someone who worked at RCA at the time, and I think she had turned off the sales reps and promotion people big time in no time at all.. My friend Kim told me at the time that when she would arrive at RCA, staff was told to 'not make eye contact' with Miss Ross... I love her, but she really knew how to sabotage her own party sometimes, and she seemed to forget that she was no longer at Motown, and Berry was not going to fix everything.. and I'm not hating, everyone knows I'm a Ross fan..just keeping it real.. if you didn't have the sales staff and promo people on your side at a major back then, you were ****ed!

[daviddh]

just don't get that ,don't make eye contact thing with some people, but hey what goes around ....

[sansradio]

just don't get that ,don't make eye contact thing with some people, but hey what goes around ....

One theory holds that the rule was a defense mechanism for her post the John Lennon murder; celebrities were really shook after that tragedy. I still find it odd.

[soulster]

just don't get that ,don't make eye contact thing with some people, but hey what goes around ....

That's what I was just thinking! She's not the only one, but she is the most infamous for that. Prince is another prima-donna who doesn't want eye-contact.

[Bluebrock]

I love Miss Ross, but I knew someone who worked at RCA at the time, and I think she had turned off the sales reps and promotion people big time in no time at all.. My friend Kim told me at the time that when she would arrive at RCA, staff was told to 'not make eye contact' with Miss Ross... I love her, but she really knew how to sabotage her own party sometimes, and she seemed to forget that she was no longer at Motown, and Berry was not going to fix everything.. and I'm not hating, everyone knows I'm a Ross fan..just keeping it real.. if you didn't have the sales staff and promo people on your side at a major back then, you were ****ed!
You are correct Jimi. She alienated the staff at RCA to such an extend that they no longer gave a hoot how successful her music was.
A few years later when I worked with her at EMI UK she had thankfully mellowed and seemingly learnt her lesson. For the most part she was charm personified and it even got to the stage when even non fans looked forward to her visits. She brought gifts, asked after peoples families and it was a great place to work. As a result we bent over backwards to promote her material even though I was sometimes overruled over the choice of singles to release.

[Jimi LaLumia]

that's good to hear... she was riding so high in the 60's and the 70's and as many close to her have said, she became what Gordy basically commanded her to become and that worked at Motown.. but then the Gordy experiment went too far, and she thought all rights and privileges would extend to other labels.. nuh uh..

[Jimi LaLumia]

having spent time at his MainMan management company in the early 70's, I heard that the first thing David Bowie did when RCA signed him for America, was to take all the label secretarial staff and office workers to a huge , quite grand lunch in Manhattan.. whatever the motivation, a VERY smart man!!

[Bluebrock]

having spent time at his MainMan management company in the early 70's, I heard that the first thing David Bowie did when RCA signed him for America, was to take all the label secretarial staff and office workers to a huge , quite grand lunch in Manhattan.. whatever the motivation, a VERY smart man!!

Mr Bowie was a smart cookie for sure!

Miss Ross did treat us to a couple of swanky meals . Jimi, you got it spot on when you said she could call all the shots at Motown knowing full well she had the backing of Gordy. Once she left Motown her influence was not the same and it took her a while to realise she could not act the big diva anymore. She even poked fun at her reputation during relaxed periods and I look back fondly on the period from 1988 to 1999 when rarely a few months went by without us working together.

[marybrewster]

Wasn't "Chain Reaction" released twice in the States?

I'll never figure out why it never connected over here; I seem to recall it was huge in the UK. With it's Motown/Supremes-like vibe and Bee Gees in the background, it was a sure fire hit, much like "Heartbreaker" was for Dionne just a few years earlier.

I still to this day think it's one of Diana's best videos.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaYHRx9-v2M

[Jimi LaLumia]

as mentioned above, if you've turned off the label people, you can forget about it..ESPECIALLY RCA!! have i got stories..

[sup_fan]

I think a lot of it was due to the time.

1. she was under pressure to prove that her decision to leave Motown wasn't a mistake
2. she was always a perfectionist and in her quest to make everything as perfect as possible, perhaps she sometimes wasn't as nice as she could be
3. she's a gifted performer but not necessarily a gifted entertainment manager. just because she'd be in the business for 20 years didn't mean she knew what was best for her career. just like a doctor shouldn't be the one prescribing his own medicine...
4. the 80's female exec phenomena - this is maybe just hypothesis. but think back to that era. it was the first time women were ever really in positions of corporate power in the US. across many industries and companies, women felt compelled to prove themselves, be able to compete in a "man's world" and come across just as decisive as their male counterparts. shoulder pads which made them look like they're built like a man. being a "bitch" so that you didn't appear weak. etc
5. reinvention - IMO Diana didn't continue to reinvent herself in the 80s. she was basically still blamour: Black Glamour. in the early 70s, she was sequin Diana, then Lady Day, then disco, then the Chic influenced early 80s woman. by mid 80s there were newer, prettier, bigger singers coming on. there was Madonna and others.

[reese]

Wasn't "Chain Reaction" released twice in the States?

I'll never figure out why it never connected over here; I seem to recall it was huge in the UK. With it's Motown/Supremes-like vibe and Bee Gees in the background, it was a sure fire hit, much like "Heartbreaker" was for Dionne just a few years earlier.

I still to this day think it's one of Diana's best videos.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaYHRx9-v2M

Yes, twice. First in late 1985, when it reached a sad #95 on the chart. I was honestly surprised that such a good record would chart so low.

Then in early 1986, Diana performed the 12-inch version when she hosted the American Music Awards. Perhaps thinking they could repeat what had happened the year before [[when the MISSING YOU video was shown on the AMAs and made the single hit the Pop Top 10), RCA released an edit of the 12-inch version of CHAIN REACTION as a single. It did slightly better than the original release, but still only reached #66.

[sup_fan]

have been listening to a few of her 80s tracks. Paradise from Workin' Overtime wasn't too bad of a song. a little monotonous in the lead vocal but the backing track is pretty good. I still think Bottom Line should have been lead single. then Paradise as second [[and not combined with This House which i don't think is strong)

From the Eaten Alive set, Crime Of Passion is strong. maybe Chain Reaction as first single then Crime as second.

Also Touch By Touch should have been the follow up to Missing You. not Telephone

[soulster]

Also Touch By Touch should have been the follow up to Missing You. not Telephone

But, "Telephone" tested much stronger with R&B audiences. That's why it was next.

[Jimi LaLumia]

the songs during the RCA years were not exactly 'classics' material... it was a big mistake to leave Motown, as it was for many

[florence]

As a result we bent over backwards to promote her material even though I was sometimes overruled over the choice of singles to release.

What did you have in mind as singles during the 90s?

Promise Me You'll Try was a Japan only release - I don't think it ever appeared at all in the UK - and although it was only a minor hit there I think it was worth a shot in the UK. It has a Stock Aitken Waterman feel to it.

[florence]

Coming from the UK, it's very hard to judge what would hit big in the US but you do have to wonder what would have happened had Chain Reaction been the lead single from Eaten Alive.

With the Michael Jackson connection there was never any doubt EA would be the choice but for me it was one of her worst singles ever - a complete mess and a cacophany of sound.

It more or less killed off the album and any future singles from it although at least the good people of Boston and Cleveland recognised a great song when they heard it!

Fortunately they did get it right with Upside Down from Diana - I believe several tracks were considered before deciding on it.

I stand to be corrected but wasn't Change Of Heart issued as the first single from Force Behind The Power in the US but was then pulled quite quickly to concentrate on When You Tell Me?

Certainly as regards the UK When You Tell Me was the obvious choice and slick marketing ensured it was an instant hit, going on to be one of the top 20 selling singles here for 1991.

Force was full of classic pop songs but although many regarded Change Of Heart highly I didn't think it was one of the album's stronger tracks.

Obviously you can just never predict what will catch on with the public with any certainty but for the UK I stongly believe they should have gone with Never Say I Don't Love You from Ross '78. One of Diana's most beautiful ballads ever.

One of the odd things about Diana's career in the UK was that in the 70 her ballads were the bigger hits, then in the 80s up tempo numbers did better while in the 90s it reverted to ballads being bigger again.

At the time I was convinced Experience would be a good sized hit in the wake of Chain Reaction but in retrospect it really should have been Crime Of Passion.

It was really in spite of RCA rather than because of them that Reaction went massive here. It broke in the clubs and discos, garnering enough sales to make the top 75 at which point it got stocked in the big multiples with immediate ccess to the public. As with the parent company RCA seemed to have given up on Diana.

For about four months at the beginning of 1985 RCA made several attempts to break Mising You and although it eventually knocked about just outside the top 75 for over 2 months the British Public for some strange reason given Diana's enduring popularity, was resistant to it. This seemed to be the end of any marketing for Diana here.

Had they put the same amount of effort into Touch By Touch the year before it could have hit big - it just missed the top 40 with minimal effort from RCA.

Pieces Of Ice was a brave experiment but I can't believe anyone could have thought it would hit big, should have gone with Up Front. By the time it was released Ross 83 was dead.

[Ollie9]

I Think "So Close" and "Upfront" the worst choice for single release ever. Not a Chance either would have hit big.
I really don't think there were any potential hits on ross 83, and "Chain Reaction is the only song from E.A that had any real chance as a single. "Shine" from RHRAB had potential if given a push.
Every Day Is A New Day was stuffed full of potential hit singles, if only in Europe. "Until We Meet Again [[remix) and "Free I'm Gone" being just two....Alas Diana had her eyes on making big bucks with the RTL tour, so the album was kicked to one side....Hmmm.

[soulster]

Pieces Of Ice was a brave experiment but I can't believe anyone could have thought it would hit big, should have gone with Up Front. By the time it was released Ross 83 was dead.

Here in the U.S., "Pieces Of Ice" got up to #31 on Billboard's Hot 100 Singles chart, still respectable at the time. "Muscles" got to #10. Go figure...

The 1983 "Ross" album is considered a favorite by non-Ross fans.

[Bluebrock]

What did you have in mind as singles during the 90s?

Promise Me You'll Try was a Japan only release - I don't think it ever appeared at all in the UK - and although it was only a minor hit there I think it was worth a shot in the UK. It has a Stock Aitken Waterman feel to it.
When i came on board the first album i had to promote was Workin overtime". It was a dream job for me but i did not like this album and still don't. My choice for 1st single was "paradise" with "bottom line" my 2nd choice. Many arguments ensured and eventually the title track was given the nod. I met Diana for the 1st time and she went on the Wogan show whilst she was on tour to promote the album. I found her to be very cordial but a little distant initially but we bonded when she asked me for an opinion of the album. I was tactful but admitted it was not one of her best . She started laughing and said she didn't like it either. She point blank refused to perform the title track which was her new single and instead sang "this house" which became the folow up single [[another mistake in my opinion. Diana thought it to be her weakest album since "everything is everything".
However did get my way with the singles from "force behind the power" and Diana herself was happy with the choices saying we knew how to promote her far better than the States did!
As regards "take me higher" i wanted "if your not gonna love me right" as the 2nd single but was overuled by nameless people who wanted the beautiful but uncommercial "gone". A mistake in my opinion but she performed it beautifully on Pebble Mill At One.
The voice of love compilation was Diana s idea and she compiled the album. I would have chosen some different songs but it was her baby and she did lots of promotion for it and was an absolute joy to work with.At the time she was in talks with R Kelly to produce her next album and she did a version of "you are not alone" which she sent to him. She wanted it released as a single but we said MJ had done such a good version that it would be unlikely to sell which she accepted. The R Kelly idea died a death but that is another story.
For "everyday is a new day" i campaigned for her version of "he lives in you" as a single. It remains my favourite version of the song and i honestly thought it could be a hit single over here but Diana herself was not keen so we went with "until we meet again" as the follow up to "not over you yet", that is until Diana had some personal problems and was unable/unwilling to come over to promote it so the single was canned and the album was allowed to slip away.

Hope this helps.

[Ollie9]

I so enjoy reading your posts Bluebrock. I have always been fascinated by Diana's career and have so many questions i would love to ask.
I can't for the life of me see how "free [[ I'm Gone)" was left off the EDIAND album. The song would have been extremely radio friendly in 99 with or without Diana being in the UK to promote it.
Does anyone think there were any potential hit singles on the "I Love You"album.

[Bluebrock]

I so enjoy reading your posts Bluebrock. I have always been fascinated by Diana's career and have so many questions i would love to ask.
I can't for the life of me see how "free [[ I'm Gone)" was left off the EDIAND album. The song would have been extremely radio friendly in 99 with or without Diana being in the UK to promote it.
Does anyone think there were any potential hit singles on the "I Love You"album.
Thank you so very much Ollie. You are too kind.
I agree that free [[i'm gone) was a potential hit but there was some copyright issues that prevented it appearing on the album. We even delayed the release of the album in order to get clearance but Diana herself wanted the album out in the UK. It had already tanked in the States and we waited until we could wait no longer. A missed opportunity.

As regards "i love you" i had no dealings whatsoever with this album. My time had passed and to be honest i don't think i could have done anything with such a poorly conceived album. The production was awful and it would have been a massive challenge to find a hit single on it.Others may disagree and i would be interested to hear any such views.

[sup_fan]

Bluebrock very interesting posts and thanks so much for sharing!! Please tell us more! ��

[Bluebrock]

Bluebrock very interesting posts and thanks so much for sharing!! Please tell us more! ��
My pleasure sup fan. Ask away and if i can answer i shall happily do so.

[sup_fan]

what about the Box set? did the uk clean that mess up before releasing? the initial US release was tragic. although Your Love was a pretty strong single

did you guys also do Diana Extended?

the US has always been fickle with their stars and entertainment. once someone is considered passe, then it's very hard to stage a come back. add to that the damage to her public image from Mary's book and you start to create a very unsympathetic public. i think that did more to harm her than any single release schedule.

[Bluebrock]

what about the Box set? did the uk clean that mess up before releasing? the initial US release was tragic. although Your Love was a pretty strong single

did you guys also do Diana Extended?

the US has always been fickle with their stars and entertainment. once someone is considered passe, then it's very hard to stage a come back. add to that the damage to her public image from Mary's book and you start to create a very unsympathetic public. i think that did more to harm her than any single release schedule.
The box set did quite well over here. We released "your love" as a single, brought Diana over to do a couple of TV spots and we got a top 20 hit out of it, We followed that with "best years of our lives" which Diana absolutely adored, We brought her over againand we got a top 30 hit. We were delighted with the "one woman" compilation which contained both of these songs and went all the way to no.1 on the UK album charts. This was such an achievement and Diana did lots of press and behaved like the ultimate pro that she was. This was when i really got to know her . We were whisking her from one studio to another and it was all 90 miles an hour stuff but boy did we enjoy yourselves. Diana asked to return to the States to help relaunch her career!! Not sure how serious she was but i had 4 children living at home at the time with more to come and so it was never really an option.

[sup_fan]

oh Blue - motown US could have definitely used your help!! from what i've read it was chaos there. did you guys in the UK ever hear any of the inside stories about why things were so mis managed with Force Behind the Power lp and single releases?

[Bluebrock]

oh Blue - motown US could have definitely used your help!! from what i've read it was chaos there. did you guys in the UK ever hear any of the inside stories about why things were so mis managed with Force Behind the Power lp and single releases?
Yes we did!! If truth be told we didn't really know what to believe but we did hear that US radio were not interested in playing her music, but we were also told that Motown USA failed to supply the radio stations with her music. On a rare trip across the pond i attended the taping of Diana's appearance on the Jay Leno show where she performed "i will survive". From what i was told the fans were crying out for it to be released as a single but the record company would not do so despite Diana requesting them to do so. The show itself was a disaster which we shall not go into here but i left thinking wtf is going on here. Any remote chance of my moving to the USA ended here, I knew i would be banging my head against a brick wall. It was so unprofessional.
Diana's US fans had my sympathy. So much strong material was allowed to go to waste. It must have been very frustrating.

[sup_fan]

from what i've read, Motown bungled Force but then radio refused to do anything with Take Me Higher. potentially if Motown had applied some common sense and strategic thinking to promoting Force and laying out a logical series of singles, it might have worked. but then again, she'd been off the charts since 1984 and "diva" was still a dirty word then. so the US public might have ignored it anyway.

By the time Take Me Higher was released in the US, it was pretty much a lost cause to do much here. she would have gotten some airplay but I Will Survive had already been released again as a techno/dance version of the Gloria Gaynor original. frankly she was a little late with that track. Of course the die-hard fans and dance clubs would have played it more but mainstream radio may or may not have.

i find it curious that she'd so nonchalant about releasing an album she really didn't care for or much about - Workin' and Everyday.

[Bluebrock]

It was her 2nd solo album "everything is everything" that she didn't care for not "ediand". Having said that we didn't think "ediand" was as strong as "fbtp" or "tmh" but we were happy enough with it and confident enough to get at least two hit singles from it. Perhaps she wasn't as keen on promoting "ediand" because she knew she was leaving Motown. We wanted her to sign to a UK label but it did not happen due to other circumstances best not discussed here.

[reese]

Does anyone think there were any potential hit singles on the "I Love You"album.

IMO, the title track was the only track that could have been considered for a single. I recall reading some article that stated it was getting some urban radio play.

I also love her rendition of WHAT ABOUT LOVE [[from "The Color Purple"), but I don't think it could have been a single although it is a very strong album track.

[reese]

from what i've read, Motown bungled Force but then radio refused to do anything with Take Me Higher. potentially if Motown had applied some common sense and strategic thinking to promoting Force and laying out a logical series of singles, it might have worked. but then again, she'd been off the charts since 1984 and "diva" was still a dirty word then. so the US public might have ignored it anyway.

By the time Take Me Higher was released in the US, it was pretty much a lost cause to do much here. she would have gotten some airplay but I Will Survive had already been released again as a techno/dance version of the Gloria Gaynor original. frankly she was a little late with that track. Of course the die-hard fans and dance clubs would have played it more but mainstream radio may or may not have.

i find it curious that she'd so nonchalant about releasing an album she really didn't care for or much about - Workin' and Everyday.

I think Motown was going through changes in executives when WORKIN' OVERTIME, FORCE, and TAKE ME HIGHER were released. Maybe EVERYDAY as well. I remember a USA TODAY article promoting that last album where Diana said she connected with the current president when he ended up sending her a demo for a song that she had already recorded for it.

I thought TAKE ME HIGHER was full of hits waiting to happen but the songs were released in the wrong order. After the title track, I would have gone with IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA LOVE ME RIGHT, VOICE OF THE HEART, I WILL SURVIVE, and GONE.

Re SURVIVE, I was surprised that Motown didn't release it in the US, especially since the video was getting rotation, it was the closing song in the hit film IN AND OUT, and she performed it during her Super Bowl halftime show. But as I recall, Chantay Savage also had a version out that was doing well. So that's probably why Motown didn't release Diana's.

[soulster]

It's too bad that traditional CD boxed sets won't sell anymore, and aren't really feasible for the labels. That "Forever Diana" boxed set was horrible in terms of mastering with bad EQ, phase issues, early fades, ect. What Ross Records should have done was create another box and used established and experienced producers and engineers who know what they are doing. That's all a wasted opportunity.

I think it would be tough to do a box now, but what either RCA/Legacy or Universal could do is what Sony Legacy and Capitol did for the band heart, or Lou Rawls: cross-license a 2-CD set with both Motown RCA material. To fit as many songs on, use the single versions. That would be a benefit because some single versions are still not available digitally. You can't get all of the singles in, but they could put the highest charting ones on. And, to avoid going overboard with any new stuff, establish a cutoff point. If I feel like, I could work up a viable tracklist for such a comp.

[Ollie9]

Going back to Diana on the Wogan show.... I really don't understand why she would refuse to promote a song on live, prime time tv [["Workin Overtime") that she herself had chosen to be the first single release????
I always thought she loved the " WO" album, as she seemed to really enjoy herself when singing the songs in concert. I actually prefer the album over EDIAND which to me is a little soggy. I would have chosen "Say We Can", a positive message song with great appeal as the first single

[Bluebrock]

It's too bad that traditional CD boxed sets won't sell anymore, and aren't really feasible for the labels. That "Forever Diana" boxed set was horrible in terms of mastering with bad EQ, phase issues, early fades, ect. What Ross Records should have done was create another box and used established and experienced producers and engineers who know what they are doing. That's all a wasted opportunity.

I think it would be tough to do a box now, but what either RCA/Legacy or Universal could do is what Sony Legacy and Capitol did for the band heart, or Lou Rawls: cross-license a 2-CD set with both Motown RCA material. To fit as many songs on, use the single versions. That would be a benefit because some single versions are still not available digitally. You can't get all of the singles in, but they could put the highest charting ones on. And, to avoid going overboard with any new stuff, establish a cutoff point. If I feel like, I could work up a viable tracklist for such a comp.
You sound like you know what you are talking about soulster. The box set should have been much better and i do believe someone once said that the UK version had stronger mastering than the USA one. Having never heard the USA one i couldn't possibly comment but i agree that the tracklisting could have been improved, The days of such box sets appear to be behind us so i am not expecting a call anytime soon to compile a new one sadly!

[florence]

Absolutely fascinating stuff - thanks for all the insight straight from the horse's mouth [[no insult intended!), Bluerock especially on the late 70s - helps explain why Diana's career stalled in the UK in that period.

As Ollie says it's impossible to understand why she wouldn't choose a prime TV slot to promote her latest single - Workin' Overtime -and I entirely agree with you about This House as a single release. Really not surprised this was one of her complete flops in the UK. Bottom Line surely had great potential.

It was a pity about the circumstances surrounding Until We Meet again, it was surely a hit in waiting.

By the time I Love Youcame around I'm not sure anything would have been a successful hit single although as with others I adore the What About Love track.

Interesting about Workin' Overtime in the US. Of anything post-1985 this was the one which came closest to hitting. It spent 7 weeks in the Billboard "Bubblers" hitting #114.

[Bluebrock]

Absolutely fascinating stuff - thanks for all the insight straight from the horse's mouth [[no insult intended!), Bluerock especially on the late 70s - helps explain why Diana's career stalled in the UK in that period.

As Ollie says it's impossible to understand why she wouldn't choose a prime TV slot to promote her latest single - Workin' Overtime -and I entirely agree with you about This House as a single release. Really not surprised this was one of her complete flops in the UK. Bottom Line surely had great potential.

It was a pity about the circumstances surrounding Until We Meet again, it was surely a hit in waiting.

By the time I Love Youcame around I'm not sure anything would have been a successful hit single although as with others I adore the What About Love track.

Interesting about Workin' Overtime in the US. Of anything post-1985 this was the one which came closest to hitting. It spent 7 weeks in the Billboard "Bubblers" hitting #114.
You must bear in mind that the "workin overtime" album had already been released when i came on board. From what i heard it appears she had met with Motown execs upon her return to the label to discuss the first project. Janet Jackson was very big at this time and certain people thought Diana should go down that particular avenue and have a younger more streetwise image and sound. Initially she embraced the idea and was open to working with Nile Rodgers again however the finished project was not what had been hoped for. Diana wanted to scrap the album and start again but had insufficient time to deliver new product, and therefore had to make do with the songs already recorded. It is true she had a major say in the first single and then had a change of heart when it was too late to change it. She said she would look ridiculous performing it on prime time TV and just plain refused to sing that song. It was decided that "this house" would be the easiest song to rehearse with only 1 day to spare. She worked so hard that day and sang the song as well as it could be sang. She bonded quite well with Terry Wogan who was a long standing fan and the interview went well. Motown wanted some comeback on their investment so she agreed to sing several album tracks on that tour but promptly dropped them all at the end of that tour.

[Ollie9]

You must bear in mind that the "workin overtime" album had already been released when i came on board. From what i heard it appears she had met with Motown execs upon her return to the label to discuss the first project. Janet Jackson was very big at this time and certain people thought Diana should go down that particular avenue and have a younger more streetwise image and sound. Initially she embraced the idea and was open to working with Nile Rodgers again however the finished project was not what had been hoped for. Diana wanted to scrap the album and start again but had insufficient time to deliver new product, and therefore had to make do with the songs already recorded. It is true she had a major say in the first single and then had a change of heart when it was too late to change it. She said she would look ridiculous performing it on prime time TV and just plain refused to sing that song. It was decided that "this house" would be the easiest song to rehearse with only 1 day to spare. She worked so hard that day and sang the song as well as it could be sang. She bonded quite well with Terry Wogan who was a long standing fan and the interview went well. Motown wanted some comeback on their investment so she agreed to sing several album tracks on that tour but promptly dropped them all at the end of that tour.

Thanks Bluebrock, all this makes sense now. I enjoy "WO" better then any album she ever recorded for RCA.
I remember feeling hugely dissapointed when the cd box set was released. The remastering was crap, the cheap packaging made it difficult to take the cd out and there was nothing rare from her back catalouge on it. It even had the wrong track listing. It has to be said that it paled considerably when compared to the slick box set Columbia released on Streisand around the time. What went wrong?.
Was all of this your doin????.................JUST JOKING!!!

[Bluebrock]

Thanks Bluebrock, all this makes sense now. I enjoy "WO" better then any album she ever recorded for RCA.
I remember feeling hugely dissapointed when the cd box set was released. The remastering was crap, the cheap packaging made it difficult to take the cd out and there was nothing rare from her back catalouge on it. It even had the wrong track listing. It has to be said that it paled considerably when compared to the slick box set Columbia released on Streisand around the time. What went wrong?.
Was all of this your doin????.................JUST JOKING!!!
Ollie - had i had any input in this project it would have been much better - i promise you that. My only contribution was to promote it. I think more thought was given to her "sparrow" book which came out around the same time. We picked up the pieces as best we could , worked with what we had and did a pretty decent job if i say so myself!!

[detmotownguy]

In Detroit at the Fox Theater: after performing a couple of songs from WO she asked if they liked it.......response was luke warm. It seemed as though ahe was really unsure of the WO project. she then proceeded to run the the 60's hits with lightening speed and a lack of interest. The other songs sounded good.

[soulster]

You sound like you know what you are talking about soulster. The box set should have been much better and i do believe someone once said that the UK version had stronger mastering than the USA one. Having never heard the USA one i couldn't possibly comment but i agree that the tracklisting could have been improved, The days of such box sets appear to be behind us so i am not expecting a call anytime soon to compile a new one sadly!
And I would leave off The Supremes tracks. If we're talking about her solo career, there's no need to put the group stuff on it. And, I would use the mono mixes where applicable.

"Workin' Overtime" would be on it.

[soulster]

Thanks Bluebrock, all this makes sense now. I enjoy "WO" better then any album she ever recorded for RCA.
I remember feeling hugely dissapointed when the cd box set was released. The remastering was crap, the cheap packaging made it difficult to take the cd out and there was nothing rare from her back catalouge on it. It even had the wrong track listing. It has to be said that it paled considerably when compared to the slick box set Columbia released on Streisand around the time. What went wrong?.
Was all of this your doin????.................JUST JOKING!!!

It was explained that the box was entirely Ross Records' deal. All Motown did was release and distribute it. Needless to say, Ross's people were in charge, and she appears to have done it as cheaply as possible.

I'm not the biggest Ross fan by any means, but even I thought that it was a shoddy way to treat a major recording artist, from the mastering to the packaging. When I found out it was Ross's company that put it together, it made me wonder even more why she wouldn't ensure that it was worthy. I got rid of the box as soon as I could. I didn't even want it in my sight! Much later, Harry Weinger would produce the 2-CD The Diana Ross Motown Anthology, and that is much better, but it's not a box, and i'm not totally satisfied with Suha Gur's work on it.

[daviddh]

I do think that in the 80s, she got a bit stale. Red Hot was a really good album and if it was released in maybe 83,it would have worked but by 1987, it wasn't working ,unless you were a long lost fan like many of us.
Tell Me Again as a single,yikes! not for me.Shine, Summertime.
I thought that THE FORCE was a great album and would have chosen Change OF Heart as first single,then Waiting In The Wings,One Shining Moment
I always hoped and thought Take Me Higher should have been a her return to Motown album,great album.I would have gone with If Youre Not Gonna Love Me Right, as second single.
why wasn't NOt Over You Yet released as a single here in US. I think the USA screwed her up.
back at RCA, SO Close, Up Front nope not for me.

[reese]

why wasn't NOt Over You Yet released as a single here in US.

By the time EVERYDAY IS A NEW DAY was released [[1999), a lot of US labels weren't releasing commercial singles on their artists. A 12-inch was released of UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN, with a sticker mistakenly labeled EVERY DAY IS A NEW DAY before being corrected. Other songs like the title track and SUGARFREE were released on promo cds only.

[soulster]

"Up Front" would have been better if Ray Parker Jr. had kept it for himself.

[Bluebrock]

I do think that in the 80s, she got a bit stale. Red Hot was a really good album and if it was released in maybe 83,it would have worked but by 1987, it wasn't working ,unless you were a long lost fan like many of us.
Tell Me Again as a single,yikes! not for me.Shine, Summertime.
I thought that THE FORCE was a great album and would have chosen Change OF Heart as first single,then Waiting In The Wings,One Shining Moment
I always hoped and thought Take Me Higher should have been a her return to Motown album,great album.I would have gone with If Youre Not Gonna Love Me Right, as second single.
why wasn't NOt Over You Yet released as a single here in US. I think the USA screwed her up.
back at RCA, SO Close, Up Front nope not for me.
The USA did come out with some odd choices for singles and it is little wonder so many songs tanked. Diana must shoulder much of the blame here. She alienated those who were paid to promote her product and thus killed her RCA career. However , let's be honest. It was hardly a stellar period in her career., but the return to Motown, Workin overtime aside produced some of the finest music of her career and it is criminal that those final 3 albums could be so overlooked. Just look what we did with them here in the UK and i remain proud of what we achieved and i am delighted to say so did Diana.

[Ollie9]

When reflecting on Diana's stint at RCA, it always brings to mind a song featured on the soundtrack of Mahogany titled "Can You Hear It In My Music". For the most part the answer was no. I guess purely from a financial point of view the move made sense. RHRAB was an ok album and the music that followed for me was a real return to form and the Diana we all fell in love with.
After 85, i really don't think the USA would have bitten no matter how strong the first single was. They had turned her off. Europe was a different matter where a commercial lead single could still determine the success of a project.
It would indeed be very interesting to know what Diana herself really feels about her RCA years and the music she produced.

[Bluebrock]

When reflecting on Diana's stint at RCA, it always brings to mind a song featured on the soundtrack of Mahogany titled "Can You Hear It In My Music". For the most part the answer was no. I guess purely from a financial point of view the move made sense. RHRAB was an ok album and the music that followed for me was a real return to form and the Diana we all fell in love with.
After 85, i really don't think the USA would have bitten no matter how strong the first single was. They had turned her off. Europe was a different matter where a commercial lead single could still determine the success of a project.
It would indeed be very interesting to know what Diana herself really feels about her RCA years and the music she produced.
I think looking back she would not be proud of the first 3 albums. The move from motown gave her a huge financial boost and it seems that was more important than producing quality music. "wdffil" got her RCA career off to a successful start but it was a huge disappointment creatively after "the boss" and "diana". When she finally began to find her creative feet with "swept away" the writing was on the wall. She continued to alienate staff, producers and anyone else who disagreed with her. It could have been all so different.

[sansradio]

a song featured on the soundtrack of Mahogany titled "Can You Hear It In My Music"

On a side note, Ollie9, I'm not familiar with this title. Is it known under an alternate title as well?

[sup_fan]

her RCA work has grown on me. some i've started to enjoy quite a bit. i think her first lp or two were pretty good. I of course like 1980's diana but let's face it, it was hardly her most ambitious or vocally engaging lp. her singing on Baby's its me was much more satisfying.

i dislike how much she relied on echo and reverb. much of Eaten Alive is maddening - whispy breathy vocals and the Gibbs nasality combined with Diana's nasality is NOT a strong combo. Then there are RCA tracks like Tell Me Again where you really wish Michael Masser was producing.

IMO much of her lead singles on her 90s albums were too "inspirational" - like He Lives In You, Take me Higher, Force Behind the power. the lyrics try to be more of a message song and just don't really do it. borderline cheesy. on occasion those songs hit with the public. i would have opted to have more traditional love and romance lyrics.

[Bluebrock]

her RCA work has grown on me. some i've started to enjoy quite a bit. i think her first lp or two were pretty good. I of course like 1980's diana but let's face it, it was hardly her most ambitious or vocally engaging lp. her singing on Baby's its me was much more satisfying.

i dislike how much she relied on echo and reverb. much of Eaten Alive is maddening - whispy breathy vocals and the Gibbs nasality combined with Diana's nasality is NOT a strong combo. Then there are RCA tracks like Tell Me Again where you really wish Michael Masser was producing.

IMO much of her lead singles on her 90s albums were too "inspirational" - like He Lives In You, Take me Higher, Force Behind the power. the lyrics try to be more of a message song and just don't really do it. borderline cheesy. on occasion those songs hit with the public. i would have opted to have more traditional love and romance lyrics.
Did "he lives in you" get a single release in the States? If so then i never knew that. I tried hard to have it as the 2nd UK single but was overruled by someone with more influence than me who has since gone on to practically ruin a couple of other artists careers.Diana herself agreed with me to no avail.
I am glad you enjoyed the RCA period more than i did, yet i enjoyed "eaten alive" and i maintain to this very day that "crimes of passion" would have made a great follow up single to "chain reaction" over here. I agree the album wasn't as strong as "guilty" or "heartbreaker" but it was still by far her finest RCA effort up to that point. The Gibb brothers thought "chain reaction" to be their best ever production on another artist. I know that for a fact because Barry Gibb himself told me so. Despite this there were tensions in the studio which we shall not go into here.
I age that Michael Masser could have been a good choice on production duties for certain songs on "rhrab". He was approached to do some work on "fbtp" but discussions never really got out of 1st gear.

[Ollie9]

On a side note, Ollie9, I'm not familiar with this title. Is it known under an alternate title as well?

Not that i am aware of sansradio. It is the 4th track on the original film soundtrack recording.
Lovely it is to.....

[reese]

Did "he lives in you" get a single release in the States? If so then i never knew that. I tried hard to have it as the 2nd UK single but was overruled by someone with more influence than me who has since gone on to practically ruin a couple of other artists careers.Diana herself agreed with me to no avail.


EVERY DAY IS A NEW DAY had no commercial releases in the US, aside from a 12-inch of UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN.

[Ollie9]

I know it's far from a great album, but I would liked to have seen "I Love You" released as a single in the UK and perhaps the rest of Europe. Diana's voice sounds younger and more engaged on this one song compared to others on the album. It is a heartfelt performance, and i think it could have done well with a little promo....A last "hurrah" perhaps!!!

[Bluebrock]

EVERY DAY IS A NEW DAY had no commercial releases in the US, aside from a 12-inch of UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN.
Oh so they really did push that album didn't they?

[reese]

Oh so they really did push that album didn't they?

It came out at a bad time in Diana's life, with the divorce, Heathrow, and so forth. Besides appearances on OPRAH and THE VIEW, she didn't promote it. And the Oprah appearance was more geared to her tv-movie DOUBLE PLATINUM with Brandy.

[Bluebrock]

It came out at a bad time in Diana's life, with the divorce, Heathrow, and so forth. Besides appearances on OPRAH and THE VIEW, she didn't promote it. And the Oprah appearance was more geared to her tv-movie DOUBLE PLATINUM with Brandy.
We did lots of promotions in the UK. Numerous TV spots, radio, interviews. She was in good spirits for the most part.

[Bluebrock]

I know it's far from a great album, but I would liked to have seen "I Love You" released as a single in the UK and perhaps the rest of Europe. Diana's voice sounds younger and more engaged on this one song compared to others on the album. It is a heartfelt performance, and i think it could have done well with a little promo....A last "hurrah" perhaps!!!
It was a one album deal and there was never a question of a single being released. It was not even considered. I don't think a hit single was on that album but we shall never know for sure.

[daviddh]

I was under the impression that she wanted to do something different with her solo box set including a dvd and more bonus tracks but was told no. I think she gave up in the end because it seemed not to go her way, or that is how I was lead to believe .
I agree crimes of passion could have been a hit. also hard for me to say

[Bluebrock]

I was under the impression that she wanted to do something different with her solo box set including a dvd and more bonus tracks but was told no. I think she gave up in the end because it seemed not to go her way, or that is how I was lead to believe .
I agree crimes of passion could have been a hit. also hard for me to say
No, the box set was Diana's baby. She chose the tracks and she oversaw the packaging, photos etc. We had no input on that one.
it's hard for me to say is indeed a little gem. Once again it is Diana's fault that Luther did not produce a full album on her. He cherished this project , sent her demos, wined and dined her until she relented and they went into the studio and cut 4 tracks so i am told. Of the missing 3 one is a reworking of an old motown classic whilst the other 2 are Vandross/Marcus Miller originals of which one is a duet. I haven't heard these songs and i am not even 100% convinced they actually exist but i do know that Diana and Luther spent a week in a London studio in 1986. I was told this by one of her aides. Diana eventually decided on "ihfmts" and dumped the other 3. I would love to hear these tunes but Diana has the key to this vault which also contains many other discarded tracks from the RCA years.

[reese]

No, the box set was Diana's baby. She chose the tracks and she oversaw the packaging, photos etc. We had no input on that one.
it's hard for me to say is indeed a little gem. Once again it is Diana's fault that Luther did not produce a full album on her. He cherished this project , sent her demos, wined and dined her until she relented and they went into the studio and cut 4 tracks so i am told. Of the missing 3 one is a reworking of an old motown classic whilst the other 2 are Vandross/Marcus Miller originals of which one is a duet. I haven't heard these songs and i am not even 100% convinced they actually exist but i do know that Diana and Luther spent a week in a London studio in 1986. I was told this by one of her aides. Diana eventually decided on "ihfmts" and dumped the other 3. I would love to hear these tunes but Diana has the key to this vault which also contains many other discarded tracks from the RCA years.

If they exist, it is too bad they weren't released. I thought ITS HARD FOR ME TO SAY was one of the best tracks of her RCA years, and totally surprised when it wasn't released as the second single from RED HOT RHYTHM AND BLUES. Instead they put out TELL ME AGAIN which I understand was special to her as it was sung at her wedding to Arne by her minister Wintley Phipps.

[sansradio]

Not that i am aware of sansradio. It is the 4th track on the original film soundtrack recording.
Lovely it is to.....

Thanks, Ollie9. I've done the research; curiously, the cut-out LP I owned in the early '80s omits that track and "Christian's Theme." You learn something new every day here! I'd love a download; Universal, are you listening?

[soulster]

Concerning that box: It's proof that she needs direction. She isn't really capable of making good production decisions. I think the reason for this is because she came from a corporate culture [[Motown) where she didn't have to learn any of that. And, unlike her former peers at Motown, she didn't bother to learn. Having said that, I think the "Why Do Fools Fall In Love" album was one of those rare times she had it together, although I don't know how much input her engineer had.

[Bluebrock]

Concerning that box: It's proof that she needs direction. She isn't really capable of making good production decisions. I think the reason for this is because she came from a corporate culture [[Motown) where she didn't have to learn any of that. And, unlike her former peers at Motown, she didn't bother to learn. Having said that, I think the "Why Do Fools Fall In Love" album was one of those rare times she had it together, although I don't know how much input her engineer had.
It was all quite rushed. Quincy Jones had been approached to produce this album and he agreed but not until he had completed work on Patti Austin's magnificent "every home should have one". Diana and RCA could/would not wait an extra few months so she took partial control. I thought it was an okay album. Nothing more, nothing less. Could and should have been much better.

[Ollie9]

I have always been puzzled as to why EMI in the UK chose"Heart Don't Change My Mind" as the fifth single to be released from FBTP. True, it was a modest hit and Diana's interpretation of the song is lovely, but there were surely far more commercial songs on the album still to be released which could/would have given her another sizeable hit. "Battlefield" or "Waiting In The Wings" had far more obvious hit potential.......Strange one!!!

[florence]

I have always been puzzled as to why EMI in the UK chose"Heart Don't Change My Mind" as the fifth single to be released from FBTP. True, it was a modest hit and Diana's interpretation of the song is lovely, but there were surely far more commercial songs on the album still to be released which could/would have given her another sizeable hit. "Battlefield" or "Waiting In The Wings" had far more obvious hit potential.......Strange one!!!

Well this is uncanny or what?

Great minds and all that. When I was out walking the dog this morning I was pondering the exact same thing and like yourself I would have gone with either Battlefield or Waiting In The Wings [[original version).

Obviously by the time you get to the fifth single it's becoming more commercially difficult although didn't Diana perform this on Top Of The Pops so I would have expected it to do better than it did.

Perhaps they thought Heart would play more into Valentine's Day which was around when it was released?

Bluerock has said he chose the singles from FBTP so maybe he has some info?

I agree WITW had more hit potential and I was always a supporter of Battlefield being a single but then what do I know? I had previously thought Shockwaves would be successful and it had even received airplay on Radio 1.

Battlefield was released as a single in some European markets and didn't do particularly well. I do think it was worth a shot in the UK though. It could have dropped like a stone or gone massive. I remember it being the one track that was singled out as being of merit when the album was being reviewed [[and slated!) by those who generally didn't appreciate Diana's music.

[Bluebrock]

I have always been puzzled as to why EMI in the UK chose"Heart Don't Change My Mind" as the fifth single to be released from FBTP. True, it was a modest hit and Diana's interpretation of the song is lovely, but there were surely far more commercial songs on the album still to be released which could/would have given her another sizeable hit. "Battlefield" or "Waiting In The Wings" had far more obvious hit potential.......Strange one!!!

The reasons why we went with "hdcmm" are as follows.
It was Diana's personal favourite song on the album. She adored Streisands version and had wanted to record it for years. We had enjoyed great success with ballads off this album and I was torn between "waiting in the wings" which I loved and "change of heart" which I thought was okay but nothing special. It was the 5th single off the album and we were pushing it somewhat . We said if it went top 40 we would be happy. Diana had performed "hdcmm" live on Italian TV and had got a great reception so I went for this beautiful song. Diana agreed with me and promised to do "totp" despite being on vacation with her husband. She took 2 days out to rehearse and delivered a stunning performance in my opinion. Maybe "witw" would have been a more commercial choice but we were disappointed with the title tracks performance - I was convinced we had another top 10 hit on our hands, so we took the "safe". Maybe I was wrong but it was my decision and how could I go against Diana?

[florence]

Very interesting and as you say how could you go against Diana.

As the follow-up to the smash When You Tell Me and considering the song when down a storm when Diana performed it you would have expected Force to have done much better in the chart but as you say in the 90s the UK seemed to respond better to Diana's ballads.

One Shining Moment was always going to be a hit but I have often wondered whether If We Hold On Together could have been mega had it been released in the wake of When You Tell Me.

[Bluebrock]

Very interesting and as you say how could you go against Diana.

As the follow-up to the smash When You Tell Me and considering the song when down a storm when Diana performed it you would have expected Force to have done much better in the chart but as you say in the 90s the UK seemed to respond better to Diana's ballads.

One Shining Moment was always going to be a hit but I have often wondered whether If We Hold On Together could have been mega had it been released in the wake of When You Tell Me.
Good point Florence. The reason why we went for Osm" as the 3rd single was because it had made a big impression with the general public. The lyrics really had made a deep impression with many people. Both radio 1 and radio 2 had played it as an album track and promised lots more airplay if it was made a single. Diana herself was pleasantly surprised by the reaction. She thought "iwhot" should be the next single but when told of the public reaction to "osm" she immediately went with our opinion. She had initially thought it to be no more than an album track but was gracious enough to concede she had been mistaken and she grew to love performing the song.

[reese]

Good point Florence. The reason why we went for Osm" as the 3rd single was because it had made a big impression with the general public. The lyrics really had made a deep impression with many people. Both radio 1 and radio 2 had played it as an album track and promised lots more airplay if it was made a single. Diana herself was pleasantly surprised by the reaction. She thought "iwhot" should be the next single but when told of the public reaction to "osm" she immediately went with our opinion. She had initially thought it to be no more than an album track but was gracious enough to concede she had been mistaken and she grew to love performing the song.

I always loved ONE SHINING MOMENT. When I was in Europe in '92, every night I would come back to my room and it would be playing on the radio.

I met its writer, Vanesse Thomas, once when she was singing backup for Aretha Franklin. They happened to be staying in the same hotel I was and I ran into Vanesse in the hotel lobby. After complimenting her on the show the night before, I told her how ONE SHINING MOMENT was one of my favorite songs. She was so tickled!

[Ollie9]

Interesting stuff Flo & Bluebrock. Nice to finally know the reasons as to why "HDCMM" was given the nod for single release.. It's funny, but when this album was first released i didn't really care for it that much. Most of the songs were to pop orientated for my own taste and i thought "When You Tell Me" way to overwrought. Now i really appreciate it and it's one i still play from time to time.....Like yesterday.
I do wonder if Diana had recorded "Take Me Higher a little sooner, perhaps instead of "A Very Special Season" or straight after the "One Woman" collection when her profile was sky high in the UK it might have produced as many hits as FBTP... It most certainly was choc full of potential hit singles.
Thinking back this was a very productive period for Diana.

[thommg]

Reading all this information [[thanks everyone!), but I couldn't remember One Shining Moment. I went to YouTube to check it out and found a video that has some great footage of Diana doing an outdoor photo shoot. Check it out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYRj5Hpt0Zk

[Bluebrock]

Reading all this information [[thanks everyone!), but I couldn't remember One Shining Moment. I went to YouTube to check it out and found a video that has some great footage of Diana doing an outdoor photo shoot. Check it out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYRj5Hpt0Zk
It was shot in black and white with Diana wearing hardly any make up. This was her idea and we had two very enjoyable days larking around. Happy days.

[Bluebrock]

I always loved ONE SHINING MOMENT. When I was in Europe in '92, every night I would come back to my room and it would be playing on the radio.

I met its writer, Vanesse Thomas, once when she was singing backup for Aretha Franklin. They happened to be staying in the same hotel I was and I ran into Vanesse in the hotel lobby. After complimenting her on the show the night before, I told her how ONE SHINING MOMENT was one of my favorite songs. She was so tickled!
Lionel Richie was the original choice to produce "fbtp" but he dropped out due to personal problems. Before he dropped out "osm" was one of the songs he brought to the project. Vanesse Thomas is a great singer in her own right and a fine songwriter, She was delighted when "osm" was chosen for the project. She was a big fan of Diana and it is a pity more songs were not forthcoming. Maybe if Lionel had stayed on board there would have been but most of the songs on the album were chosen after he had departed.

[reese]

Lionel Richie was the original choice to produce "fbtp" but he dropped out due to personal problems. Before he dropped out "osm" was one of the songs he brought to the project. Vanesse Thomas is a great singer in her own right and a fine songwriter, She was delighted when "osm" was chosen for the project. She was a big fan of Diana and it is a pity more songs were not forthcoming. Maybe if Lionel had stayed on board there would have been but most of the songs on the album were chosen after he had departed.

Interesting re Lionel. During the European trip I mentioned earlier, it seems like all I heard was his MY DESTINY and Diana's ONE SHINING MOMENT.

One night on the same trip, I discovered that there was a video for ONE SHINING MOMENT. It aired on one of those countdown video shows that aired over and over again. My friends thought I was crazy because I would stay up waiting to see it. I had to tell them that the record wasn't a single in America and I would probably never see the video again.

[Ollie9]

It would very much appear "I Love You" is going to go down as Diana's very last complete album of new recordings....alas.
I do think a DEFINITIVE rca collection containing unreleased songs she recorded while at the label, coupled with ALL of the single edits for completion would be a strong seller. If only for the unreleased stuff. The compilation RCA put out some years back was badly remastered, and well.... not very complete.

[Bluebrock]

It would very much appear "I Love You" is going to go down as Diana's very last complete album of new recordings....alas.
I do think a DEFINITIVE rca collection containing unreleased songs she recorded while at the label, coupled with ALL of the single edits for completion would be a strong seller. If only for the unreleased stuff. The compilation RCA put out some years back was badly remastered, and well.... not very complete.
Only Diana can make that happen Ollie. She refused to offer any unreleased stuff in the vault when Funkytowngrooves did their reissues a couple of years ago, Apart from the Luther songs there is an album of covers but other than those i do not know what else is left over, but judging by the quality of some of the stuff that did come out i wouldn't be too optimistic about their quality. I do know their are a few songs unreleased from her 2nd motown stint. a couple of outtakes from "workin overtime" a couple from the "fbtp"sessions and several from "tmh". not 100% sure about "ediand". I think a couple of extra songs were on the japanese version but other than a few remixes i am not sure.

[Ollie9]

Only Diana can make that happen Ollie. She refused to offer any unreleased stuff in the vault when Funkytowngrooves did their reissues a couple of years ago, Apart from the Luther songs there is an album of covers but other than those i do not know what else is left over, but judging by the quality of some of the stuff that did come out i wouldn't be too optimistic about their quality. I do know their are a few songs unreleased from her 2nd motown stint. a couple of outtakes from "workin overtime" a couple from the "fbtp"sessions and several from "tmh". not 100% sure about "ediand". I think a couple of extra songs were on the japanese version but other than a few remixes i am not sure.

I seem to remember a few years back RCA were set to re-release "ross", replacing "Girls" with an unused song from the ross sessions. It had been assigned a catalouge number but was cancelled at the last minute. Talking of quality, could any of the unused songs from the RCA years have been worse than "Girls". IMO the worst song she has ever recorded, though i know you quite like it Bluebrock.

[daviddh]

wasn't WORKIN OVERTIME back at Motown , not RCA. I thought that that was her return to Motown lp.
I do think a RCA box set would be great idea with out takes but I think Ross, I heard wont release any of the out takes.??

[daviddh]

btw, didn't she record an album of standards at RCA that never got released.
this has been a joy to read , no fussing, just all about the music. thank you to all ,esp BlueBrook and Ollie for their posts. very enjoyable reads.
I do recall hearing there were more songs for VOICE OF lOVE. I do think an album filled with out takes from 1999-99 would be great[[ and hits) would be a good idea.

[Bluebrock]

I seem to remember a few years back RCA were set to re-release "ross", replacing "Girls" with an unused song from the ross sessions. It had been assigned a catalouge number but was cancelled at the last minute. Talking of quality, could any of the unused songs from the RCA years have been worse than "Girls". IMO the worst song she has ever recorded, though i know you quite like it Bluebrock.
Oh yes Ollie. "girls" is an absolute gem and i rarely go a day without playing it!
12 songs were recorded for the "ross" sessions. The album was originally going to contain 10 tracks but this was reduced to 8 for reasons we will not go into here. i haven't heard the 4 canned tracks but i know people who have and they say there were a couple of goodies there. As you say Ollie they must surely be better than "girls". Maybe one day we will get the chance to judge for yourselves. Then again maybe not.

[Bluebrock]

btw, didn't she record an album of standards at RCA that never got released.
this has been a joy to read , no fussing, just all about the music. thank you to all ,esp BlueBrook and Ollie for their posts. very enjoyable reads.
I do recall hearing there were more songs for VOICE OF lOVE. I do think an album filled with out takes from 1999-99 would be great[[ and hits) would be a good idea.
Thank you David. You are very kind.
You are quite correct when you say there were extra songs recorded for "voice of love". I think i mentioned them in an earlier post on this thread. There are 3 additional songs only released in Japan.
She did indeed record an album of standards in 1985. They included jazz, swing, easy listening stuff originally recorded by the likes of Sinatra, Ella, Judy Garland. For some reason Diana vetoed the project despite it being her idea in the first place.

[Ollie9]

Cheers david h....
Mr Bluebrock, do you know who produced this album of standards from 85?. ...Please tell me it was not Diana herself. I'm a little suprised more is not known of this intended project. On paper it sounds potentially wonderful.
Does Diana really have TOTAL contol of what is aloud to be released from her back catalogue at RCA?.
'Tis true she is still recording for a record company, but Streisand is now releasing whole albums made up of songs that for various reasons never saw the light of day. I really can't understand why Diana is so reluctant. Fans would lap it up.

[sup_fan]

big thanks to all of the fans here for making this such an interesting series of posts. great discussion, no nonsense or petty hate coming out. lots of extremely insightful posts and people sharing memories and history

Now Bluebrock, you've stated multiple times "for reasons i can't go into here" lolol. i'll give you my email and let's discuss! :)

[Jimi LaLumia]

yeah, I'd be interested in that myself strictly confidential

[Bluebrock]

Cheers david h....
Mr Bluebrock, do you know who produced this album of standards from 85?. ...Please tell me it was not Diana herself. I'm a little suprised more is not known of this intended project. On paper it sounds potentially wonderful.
Does Diana really have TOTAL contol of what is aloud to be released from her back catalogue at RCA?.
'Tis true she is still recording for a record company, but Streisand is now releasing whole albums made up of songs that for various reasons never saw the light of day. I really can't understand why Diana is so reluctant. Fans would lap it up.
Ollie - I sent you a private message which wasn't originally intended for you but hopefully you will understand what I am trying to say.
Diana did indeed buy all the masters from her RCA years and unless she has a change of heart the unreleased songs will remain in the vault.
The standards album was not produced by Diana thankfully. Bear in mind it was recorded before I arrived on the scene but I think it was recorded in London with 2 or 3 different producers from what I was told. Let me check in my diaries for any additional information because I don't for the moment recall exactly who Diana worked with. I think Daryl Hall and Michael Mcdonald both had some input but details are quite sketchy. It was RCA who did not rate the end product rather than Diana herself, and this did not help the already receding relationship between artist and Record Company.
As regards Streisand she retains total control over her back catalogue and it is only now that she is trawling through the treasure trove of unreleased gems. Most of Diana's Motown product has now seen the light of day but there remain a handful of tracks from 75-77 that have only recently surfaced. Hopefully they will emerge on an expanded Ross 78. Diana has no control over her early Motown recordings so cannot prevent them being released.
Going back to Streisand there are 3 unreleased songs from the Guilty sessions one of which eventually emerged on "eaten alive" that have yet to see the light of day. She would not allow them to be included on the reissue of "guilty" around 10 years ago.

Hope the above helps.

[rovereab]

Carry On would have made a great first single off EDIAND or at least a follow-up to Not Over You Yet in the UK.

[reese]

Carry On would have made a great first single off EDIAND or at least a follow-up to Not Over You Yet in the UK.

I agree. I thought CARRY ON also would have been a nice replacement for I WILL SURVIVE in Diana's act.

[Bluebrock]

I agree. I thought CARRY ON also would have been a nice replacement for I WILL SURVIVE in Diana's act.
I don't think she will ever take "iws" out of her set. She always adored the song and wanted to record it many years before she actually did so. When we released it as a single in the UK she was delighted. I never cared for her version but she always put her heart and soul into it.

[reese]

I don't think she will ever take "iws" out of her set. She always adored the song and wanted to record it many years before she actually did so. When we released it as a single in the UK she was delighted. I never cared for her version but she always put her heart and soul into it.

During her 1979 HBO special, after performing I AIN'T BEEN LICKED, she mentioned that she liked songs with a message like LICKED or I WILL SURVIVE.

[Bluebrock]

During her 1979 HBO special, after performing I AIN'T BEEN LICKED, she mentioned that she liked songs with a message like LICKED or I WILL SURVIVE.

That would be a great replacement!!

[Ollie9]

Ollie - I sent you a private message which wasn't originally intended for you but hopefully you will understand what I am trying to say.
Diana did indeed buy all the masters from her RCA years and unless she has a change of heart the unreleased songs will remain in the vault.
The standards album was not produced by Diana thankfully. Bear in mind it was recorded before I arrived on the scene but I think it was recorded in London with 2 or 3 different producers from what I was told. Let me check in my diaries for any additional information because I don't for the moment recall exactly who Diana worked with. I think Daryl Hall and Michael Mcdonald both had some input but details are quite sketchy. It was RCA who did not rate the end product rather than Diana herself, and this did not help the already receding relationship between artist and Record Company.
As regards Streisand she retains total control over her back catalogue and it is only now that she is trawling through the treasure trove of unreleased gems. Most of Diana's Motown product has now seen the light of day but there remain a handful of tracks from 75-77 that have only recently surfaced. Hopefully they will emerge on an expanded Ross 78. Diana has no control over her early Motown recordings so cannot prevent them being released.
Going back to Streisand there are 3 unreleased songs from the Guilty sessions one of which eventually emerged on "eaten alive" that have yet to see the light of day. She would not allow them to be included on the reissue of "guilty" around 10 years ago.

Hope the above helps.

Cheers Bluebrock. I did respond to your message. Not sure it was sent though!!.
I guess we have a lot to look forward to....Perhaps one day.

[Bluebrock]

Cheers Bluebrock. I did respond to your message. Not sure it was sent though!!.
I guess we have a lot to look forward to....Perhaps one day.
Got it Ollie .Check your inbox.

[Ollie9]

Does anyone know if "No Matter What You Do" was ever released as a single anywhere. It seems a song that few fans ever talk about, and one i felt had real hit potential, particularly in the UK. I can only assume that because it was a duet, and as such would have been hard for Diana to promote on tv by herself is the reason it was overlooked. Even without tv promotion, i think it could have charted higher than "Heart Dont Change My Mind". To me it always seems one that got away.

[Bluebrock]

Does anyone know if "No Matter What You Do" was ever released as a single anywhere. It seems a song that few fans ever talk about, and one i felt had real hit potential, particularly in the UK. I can only assume that because it was a duet, and as such would have been hard for Diana to promote on tv by herself is the reason it was overlooked. Even without tv promotion, i think it could have charted higher than "Heart Dont Change My Mind". To me it always seems one that got away.
It was released as a single in the USA prior to "fbtp" was released, and was not included on the USA edition of the album. It was included as a bonus track on the UK edition. It was actually recorded in the late 80's. Diana surprisingly agreed to do the duet after hearing a demo of the song.

[sansradio]

Does anyone know if "No Matter What You Do" was ever released as a single anywhere. It seems a song that few fans ever talk about, and one i felt had real hit potential, particularly in the UK. I can only assume that because it was a duet, and as such would have been hard for Diana to promote on tv by herself is the reason it was overlooked. Even without tv promotion, i think it could have charted higher than "Heart Dont Change My Mind". To me it always seems one that got away.

IIRC, it reached #4 R&B in the US.

[Bluebrock]

Does anyone know if "No Matter What You Do" was ever released as a single anywhere. It seems a song that few fans ever talk about, and one i felt had real hit potential, particularly in the UK. I can only assume that because it was a duet, and as such would have been hard for Diana to promote on tv by herself is the reason it was overlooked. Even without tv promotion, i think it could have charted higher than "Heart Dont Change My Mind". To me it always seems one that got away.

We did not have the rights to release it as a single in the UK. It was recorded for another label and as such we even had a few problems in securing it as a bonus song for "fbtp". Maybe it could have been a hit but I wasn't so sure at the time and am not sure even now.

[daviddh]

No Matter What You DO with AL B Wright was released here in the US in 1989 ,it made #4 R@B

[daviddh]

BlueBrook and Ollie ////thank you for all your input and knowledge.i truly appreciate reading your posts.
that being said ,I have question if anyone can answer it.
many years ago ,I saw a version of ROSS 83 on ebay that had a different track listing including songs listed as, MAYBE, FULL MOON ,SLEEP WITH ME TONIGHT. at first I passed because I thought it was a joke or rip off and I had already been ripped once by a then deluxe[[NOT) version of Ross 78.
glad to know Ross 78 is still in the works .I know some songs were found that had been recorded with a guy who produced and married Bonnie Pointer but his name escapes me right now. hopefully we will get a deluxe Ross 78 sometime soon. with all the out takes, I cant help but feel how strange it was to include previously recorded songs were used on Ross 78.

[daviddh]

ps I did pass on this version but regretted it and went back to purchase it but it was sold out.but funny ,never heard anymore about it

[Bluebrock]

BlueBrook and Ollie ////thank you for all your input and knowledge.i truly appreciate reading your posts.
that being said ,I have question if anyone can answer it.
many years ago ,I saw a version of ROSS 83 on ebay that had a different track listing including songs listed as, MAYBE, FULL MOON ,SLEEP WITH ME TONIGHT. at first I passed because I thought it was a joke or rip off and I had already been ripped once by a then deluxe[[NOT) version of Ross 78.
glad to know Ross 78 is still in the works .I know some songs were found that had been recorded with a guy who produced and married Bonnie Pointer but his name escapes me right now. hopefully we will get a deluxe Ross 78 sometime soon. with all the out takes, I cant help but feel how strange it was to include previously recorded songs were used on Ross 78.

Those songs are from the original sessions for ROSS83. As I said previously the album originally contained 10 songs but two were taken off at the last minute. I haven't heard these outtakes so cannot vouch for their quality. I recall an expanded ROSS83 was to be released several years ago. I am not sure what happened but can only assume Diana vetoed the release as she owns the masters. She also refused to allow these songs to be included on the funkytowngrooves reissue from a couple of years ago.

[daviddh]

thanks, it also had FIGHT FOR IT as a track. if I recall correctly , the entire side 2 was different , I think. it was a long time ago

[daviddh]

I think they found some tracks she recorded with Jeffrey Bowen, I think ,he was the guy who married Bonnie Pointer. anyway, I think some of these tracks may find there way to ROSS 78

[Bluebrock]

I think they found some tracks she recorded with Jeffrey Bowen, I think ,he was the guy who married Bonnie Pointer. anyway, I think some of these tracks may find there way to ROSS 78

I do know some "lost" tracks were recently discovered from the mid 70's originally intended for the Black album. It is mindblowing to think how many songs Diana has recorded over the past 50+ years. She once told me she would sometimes spend up to 10 hours in the studio and then do a show that evening with the Supremes. She would go to bed exhausted after the show whilst Mary and Cindy were free to party . Diana would be back in the studio the next morning whilst the other girls were able to lie in bed and relax. She was certainly the hardest working Supreme. Smokey Robinson once said that he knew no-one else with her work ethic, and I have to agree with him.

[daviddh]

thank you BlueBrook. enjoy your thoughts and comments. nice to read info that is not gossip about DR.

[daviddh]

the song" Maybe" was a cover of an old song from the early 60s by another girl group. not sure but I am thinking Chantells. I will look it up

[sansradio]

the song" Maybe" was a cover of an old song from the early 60s by another girl group. not sure but I am thinking Chantells. I will look it up

And, incidentally, is "Sleep With Me Tonight" the Bacharach/Bayer Sager tune that Patti LaBelle recorded on her Winner in You album?

[Bluebrock]

And, incidentally, is "Sleep With Me Tonight" the Bacharach/Bayer Sager tune that Patti LaBelle recorded on her Winner in You album?
I suspect it is daviddh but having not heard it I cannot say for sure.

[daviddh]

Bluebrook/ Ollie , are you aware of any other out takes from any of the other albums. I heard there were other songs from The Voice Of Love but not released

[Bluebrock]

Bluebrook/ Ollie , are you aware of any other out takes from any of the other albums. I heard there were other songs from The Voice Of Love but not released
daviddh - This subject is discussed in an earlier post in this thread. There were 3 additional songs recorded for this project. Scroll back and you will find a few posts discussing it. Give me a shout if you require any clarification.

[Ollie9]

Regarding first single releases, in hindsight it is easy to conclude this song would have done better than that etc etc. Having said that it must be aknowledged that ther were some very strange choices, particulaly during her RCA years. "So Close", "Upfront", "Mr Lee", "Shockwaves" songs to me that never stood a chance of becoming hits, and so it proved.
One lead single i did think would have made more of a splash was"Take Me Higher". It is such a fun song, had an exciting promo video and was heavily promoted, at least here in the UK. I guess it goes to prove you never really know for sure what will fly and what might crash.

[Bluebrock]

Regarding first single releases, in hindsight it is easy to conclude this song would have done better than that etc etc. Having said that it must be aknowledged that ther were some very strange choices, particulaly during her RCA years. "So Close", "Upfront", "Mr Lee", "Shockwaves" songs to me that never stood a chance of becoming hits, and so it proved.
One lead single i did think would have made more of a splash was"Take Me Higher". It is such a fun song, had an exciting promo video and was heavily promoted, at least here in the UK. I guess it goes to prove you never really know for sure what will fly and what might crash.

When I first heard "take me higher" I was convinced we had a top 10 smash in our hands. We lined Diana up to appear on "totp" but one of her children fell ill and she was unable to fly to the UK but being the the trooper that she is we managed to persuade her to perform via satellite from the Motown museum in Detroit. Diana was distracted and she mimed to the track rather than sing it live. She promised to perform it live on the show a couple of weeks later which she did but the song dropped down the charts and the performance was never aired. I was at the taping and she did a fabulous rendition. She was delighted by it and asked me to gauge the reaction when it was broadcast. I didn't have the heart to tell her it was never broadcast and to this very day she remains unaware of this! Hope she isn't reading this!

[Jimi LaLumia]

even her Super Bowl appearance with the helicopter exit didn't take "Take Me Higher" any higher... the 'new' Motown just didn't seem to be on board

[daviddh]

i think that TAKE ME HIGHER got lost in with the medley of hits and so I am not sure if many people knew it was new?? I was hoping she would just do a medley of songs from the new album , I thought that might help it out at the time,but who knows how the public will react.
it was a great track and album with so many gems

[Bluebrock]

i think that TAKE ME HIGHER got lost in with the medley of hits and so I am not sure if many people knew it was new?? I was hoping she would just do a medley of songs from the new album , I thought that might help it out at the time,but who knows how the public will react.
it was a great track and album with so many gems
Diana really believed in this album and performed several of the tracks on various TV shows in the UK, USA and Japan. There were several potential hits on it and yet some buffoon in the UK decided that "gone" was the ideal choice to follow "tmh". There were some great mixes of "if your not gonna love me right" knocking about. Radio dj's were enthusiastic about it but all pleas fell on deaf ears. I am still annoyed after all these years. I asked for it to be the 4th single following "i will survive" but for reasons I shall not go into here it did not happen.

[reese]

Diana really believed in this album and performed several of the tracks on various TV shows in the UK, USA and Japan. There were several potential hits on it and yet some buffoon in the UK decided that "gone" was the ideal choice to follow "tmh". There were some great mixes of "if your not gonna love me right" knocking about. Radio dj's were enthusiastic about it but all pleas fell on deaf ears. I am still annoyed after all these years. I asked for it to be the 4th single following "i will survive" but for reasons I shall not go into here it did not happen.

Diana did a few tv appearances in the US for the album. Upon its release, she sang the title track on Letterman, and then IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA LOVE ME RIGHT a week later on the Tonight Show. Around Thanksgiving, she performed HIGHER and VOICE OF THE HEART on a Soul Train anniversary special. Later, she came back to Letterman to do a fun version of I WILL SURVIVE during which she appeared to leave the stage, exit the theater, go get a drink, go get a message, and think re-emerge to end the song wearing a bathrobe. She also sang SURVIVE on the Tonight Show right before the Super Bowl, but by then the album had peaked.

GONE was the second single in the US as well. I love that song, but like you, I thought it should have been a single much later. I would have gone with IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA LOVE ME RIGHT, which was released later as a double a-side with VOICE OF THE HEART.

[Ollie9]

I also love the song, but never felt it a wise choice as a single. Having said, given it's quality it really should have done better than it did. Perhaps it was Diana's solid success rate with ballads in the UK that prompted EMI to select it as the second single. Then as now it seems a really bad idea. Judging from a performance seen on you tube it was not an easy song for Diana to perform live either.
I agree that "If Your Not Gonna Love Me Right" should without doubt have been the second single. The remixes were cool.
Going back a number of years, a song that i thought would go on to become a Diana classic was "Stay With Me". I have never understood why it was never released as the first single from the "To Love Again" album when it was so obviously the most commercial of the new batch of songs she had cut with Mr Masser.

[Bluebrock]

I also love the song, but never felt it a wise choice as a single. Having said, given it's quality it really should have done better than it did. Perhaps it was Diana's solid success rate with ballads in the UK that prompted EMI to select it as the second single. Then as now it seems a really bad idea. Judging from a performance seen on you tube it was not an easy song for Diana to perform live either.
I agree that "If Your Not Gonna Love Me Right" should without doubt have been the second single. The remixes were cool.
Going back a number of years, a song that i thought would go on to become a Diana classic was "Stay With Me". I have never understood why it was never released as the first single from the "To Love Again" album when it was so obviously the most commercial of the new batch of songs she had cut with Mr Masser.
From what i was told "stay with me" had previously been recorded by Roberta Flack and her version had been played on some of the quiet storm radio shows. This in itself is no reason why it could not have been a single but by this time Diana had departed Motown and the company had no real reason or desire to promote the album. I don't know who decided not to release "stay with me" but i agree it would have been a better follow up to "it's my turn". Diana herself did not approve of the release of the "to love again" album just as she had not been happy with Ross78, and i can well understand why not.

[Ollie9]

From what i was told "stay with me" had previously been recorded by Roberta Flack and her version had been played on some of the quiet storm radio shows. This in itself is no reason why it could not have been a single but by this time Diana had departed Motown and the company had no real reason or desire to promote the album. I don't know who decided not to release "stay with me" but i agree it would have been a better follow up to "it's my turn". Diana herself did not approve of the release of the "to love again" album just as she had not been happy with Ross78, and i can well understand why not.

I have always thought that Diana herself had a lot to do with Ross 78. Did she not select the albums artwork?.
Roberta Flacks version of "Stay With Me" is excellent, as are all the songs from that album. Having said that it is Diana's version i find the more poignent. I do remember seeing posters for the album around at the time, plus Motown did release two singles form the album which though nice enough, never stood a chance of becoming hits. "Stay With Me" was by far the more commercial of the three new songs. Could it have been a copyright problem?.

[daviddh]

I also agree that IF Youre Not Gonna Love Me Right should have been the next single from TMH. great track. great album. I'm Gone should have been the last single. I just don't get it. like the were trying to kill the album?

[Bluebrock]

I have always thought that Diana herself had a lot to do with Ross 78. Did she not select the albums artwork?.
Roberta Flacks version of "Stay With Me" is excellent, as are all the songs from that album. Having said that it is Diana's version i find the more poignent. I do remember seeing posters for the album around at the time, plus Motown did release two singles form the album which though nice enough, never stood a chance of becoming hits. "Stay With Me" was by far the more commercial of the three new songs. Could it have been a copyright problem?.
Ross78 was a rushed project. She was meant to do an album with the producers of the Village People but that project fell through. She had been busy filming "the wiz" and there was deemed to be insufficient time to record a whole new album. Therefore Ross78 was made up of unreleased material and a few previously released songs. She was not happy with the album. As regards the artwork I honestly do not know if she was responsible for the cover.

[Bluebrock]

I have always thought that Diana herself had a lot to do with Ross 78. Did she not select the albums artwork?.
Roberta Flacks version of "Stay With Me" is excellent, as are all the songs from that album. Having said that it is Diana's version i find the more poignent. I do remember seeing posters for the album around at the time, plus Motown did release two singles form the album which though nice enough, never stood a chance of becoming hits. "Stay With Me" was by far the more commercial of the three new songs. Could it have been a copyright problem?.
So far as I am aware there were no copyright issues Ollie. They just didn't appear to want to release a song so recently linked with Roberta Flack. I think I am right in saying Micheal Masser also produced Roberta's version. There was also another version knocking about which I cannot recall at the moment.

[Ollie9]

So far as I am aware there were no copyright issues Ollie. They just didn't appear to want to release a song so recently linked with Roberta Flack. I think I am right in saying Micheal Masser also produced Roberta's version. There was also another version knocking about which I cannot recall at the moment.

The whole featuring Donny album was produced by Roberta and Eric Mercury. I still regard it as one of her best. I really think the person or persons responsible for not releasing Diana's version as a single all deserve a thorough spanking, even if it was 35 years ago..."wow", can you believe. IMO it was a surefire hit, at least in the UK.
This is my little list of songs that should have been the lead single, starting from 81.

To Love Again - Stay With Me.
Why Do Fools - Right choice.
Silk Electric - 2nd single Love Lies.
ross - You Do It.
Eaten Alive - Chain Reaction
Swept Away - Right choice [[USA). Telephone [[UK)
Red Hot Rhythm - Shine
Workin Overtime - Say We Can
Force Behind The Power - Right choice [[UK)
Take Me Higher - I Will Survive then If Your Not Gonna Love Me [[Remix version)
Everyday Is A New Day - Right Choice. 2nd single Until We Meet Again [[Remix)

P.S i chose Telephone for the UK as quite a few friends of mine who were not into Ross liked this one song from the album.....as did i.

[florence]

I think we're all singing from the same hymn sheet with Stay With Me - I was always puzzled why this was never issued as a single. EMI in the UK were normally so astute but One More Chance was possibly - with the exception of This House and Eaten Alive - one of Diana's worst singles - it was a complete mess.

Cryin'y My Heart Out For You suffered as the follow-up. It would have done much better if it had even been the lead single.

Not sure I agree with Ollie about Telephone as a single in the UK. Touch By Touch was a pretty good choice and if RCA had actually put some promotion behind it, it could have gone big.

However, I think Swept Away should have been given a chance here. For some strange reason as opposed to the 70s and 90s Diana's biggest hits in the 80s were with uptempo numbers rather than ballads and Hall and Oates had a high UK profile at the time.

Bluerock - I think you should write a book about your tenure at EMI while Diana was on their label. There's a lot you probably couldn't say but so much you could. I'll put in an advance order!

Although you seem to have joined around the late 80s you have extensive knowlege of Diana's UK career right through. I have a few questions you might be able to answer. Your insight into the late 70s helped explain why Diana's success dipped in this period.

There were questions in some quarters fregarding the chart positions of It's My House. What do you know of this? If you can't/don't want to comment on this fair enough, I can understand your position.

The All The Great Hits album puzzles me. Released at the end of 1981 although it only reached #21 it was during the high sales season and in the updated year end chart it was around the mid-120s meaning sales in the low 100ks. It did hover in the lower end of the chart until April and had another small run for 2 months later in the year which would probably not count for much more than 50k in sales. It wasn't among the top 200 in the year end charts for 1982 and 1983.

Early in 1984 it received a Platinum certification. Now I know these are awarded on shipments but given that the album could hardly have sold in excess of 200k at retail it's hard to believe it could be over-shipped to this extent. Even if it had been heavily overshipped at Christmas 1981 these would now have been returned or still in the stores and if they had stock then they would not have been ordering more so how on earth did it get to the Platinum certification.

The only explanation which might be possible is that Record Clubs had become very popular in the UK and mainstream artists and Compilation albums would have been very popular in them. Sales here of course were not counted towards the chart. Do you know if there was any promtion of the album through the Clubs or know of any explanation as to how this album went Platinum. Maybe I'm missing something obvious?

For me the biggest mystery of Diana's UK career.

How on earth was Do You Know Where You're Going To a flop when first released in the UK?

You talked about Diana's profile in the late 70s but I would have thought in 1975 she would still have been a top priority artist. Diana was highly popular, Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right had made it to just outside the top 20 earlier in the year, the song was one of those timeless ballads which the UK public loved from her and was climbing the US chart on its way to #1. Yet when released here in October 1975 it didn't even make the breakers let alone the chart [[admittedly only a top 50 then).

I'm completely baffled by this. Of course when Diana toured here in Spring '76 the record took off [[was it re-promoted? I don't believe it was re-released) and went all the way to the top5 although interestingly it did stall in its second week just outside the top 50.

This was quickly followed by Love Hangover giving Diana simultaneous hits although on reflection even though it sold into 6 figures and made #10 you might have expected it to be even bigger especially with Diana having just toured.

Any thoughts?

[reese]

I must admit that I always loved ONE MORE CHANCE and thought it was a great follow-up to IT'S MY TURN. But I was a bit surprised by the whole TO LOVE AGAIN project.

Diana had just had one of the biggest-selling albums of her career with "diana". I would have thought they would have tried to keep some of that sound with her next release. I understand that IT'S MY TURN was a hit, but I think even some of that was because it followed UPSIDE DOWN and I'M COMING OUT.

Of course, now knowing that Diana was on her way out of the company, it probably wasn't easy to do what would seem to be expected. But to follow a blockbuster like "diana" with an album like TO LOVE AGAIN which only included three new songs was really an insult to her legacy. I'm not surprised that Diana didn't like it. Although I thought she might have sanctioned it somewhat, as it was the first album to list a fan club credit. And the cover photos were gorgeous.

[daviddh]

I thought that I read somewhere that Motown wanted to include ENDLESS LOVE on To Love Again but only got single rights to release it as polydor ?? got the right to use it on the lp soundtrack. as a result ,they released a Michael Masser tribute album instead. with all the left over tracks in the vault ,you would think that Motown would have released more original material , especially since they released the ALL THE GREAT HITS several months later

[Ollie9]

In fairness to Motown, i do feel they deemed some of the unreleased songs they could have used for "To Love Again" simply not good enough or just to dated. I myself would have definitely included "Keep My Light In My Window" which was recorded in the late 70's and the touching "We're Always Saying Goodbye", which might have been a nice song to close out the album. Other unreleased songs from around this time such as "Sweet Summertime Lovin" and "Fire Don't Burn" to my ears just don't make the grade, and i can well understand why they were canned for so long.

[Bluebrock]

I think we're all singing from the same hymn sheet with Stay With Me - I was always puzzled why this was never issued as a single. EMI in the UK were normally so astute but One More Chance was possibly - with the exception of This House and Eaten Alive - one of Diana's worst singles - it was a complete mess.

Cryin'y My Heart Out For You suffered as the follow-up. It would have done much better if it had even been the lead single.

Not sure I agree with Ollie about Telephone as a single in the UK. Touch By Touch was a pretty good choice and if RCA had actually put some promotion behind it, it could have gone big.

However, I think Swept Away should have been given a chance here. For some strange reason as opposed to the 70s and 90s Diana's biggest hits in the 80s were with uptempo numbers rather than ballads and Hall and Oates had a high UK profile at the time.

Bluerock - I think you should write a book about your tenure at EMI while Diana was on their label. There's a lot you probably couldn't say but so much you could. I'll put in an advance order!

Although you seem to have joined around the late 80s you have extensive knowlege of Diana's UK career right through. I have a few questions you might be able to answer. Your insight into the late 70s helped explain why Diana's success dipped in this period.

There were questions in some quarters fregarding the chart positions of It's My House. What do you know of this? If you can't/don't want to comment on this fair enough, I can understand your position.

The All The Great Hits album puzzles me. Released at the end of 1981 although it only reached #21 it was during the high sales season and in the updated year end chart it was around the mid-120s meaning sales in the low 100ks. It did hover in the lower end of the chart until April and had another small run for 2 months later in the year which would probably not count for much more than 50k in sales. It wasn't among the top 200 in the year end charts for 1982 and 1983.

Early in 1984 it received a Platinum certification. Now I know these are awarded on shipments but given that the album could hardly have sold in excess of 200k at retail it's hard to believe it could be over-shipped to this extent. Even if it had been heavily overshipped at Christmas 1981 these would now have been returned or still in the stores and if they had stock then they would not have been ordering more so how on earth did it get to the Platinum certification.

The only explanation which might be possible is that Record Clubs had become very popular in the UK and mainstream artists and Compilation albums would have been very popular in them. Sales here of course were not counted towards the chart. Do you know if there was any promtion of the album through the Clubs or know of any explanation as to how this album went Platinum. Maybe I'm missing something obvious?

For me the biggest mystery of Diana's UK career.

How on earth was Do You Know Where You're Going To a flop when first released in the UK?

You talked about Diana's profile in the late 70s but I would have thought in 1975 she would still have been a top priority artist. Diana was highly popular, Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right had made it to just outside the top 20 earlier in the year, the song was one of those timeless ballads which the UK public loved from her and was climbing the US chart on its way to #1. Yet when released here in October 1975 it didn't even make the breakers let alone the chart [[admittedly only a top 50 then).

I'm completely baffled by this. Of course when Diana toured here in Spring '76 the record took off [[was it re-promoted? I don't believe it was re-released) and went all the way to the top5 although interestingly it did stall in its second week just outside the top 50.

This was quickly followed by Love Hangover giving Diana simultaneous hits although on reflection even though it sold into 6 figures and made #10 you might have expected it to be even bigger especially with Diana having just toured.

Any thoughts?
Goodness me Florence! You have certainly given me a task and a half with your questions. It will probably take several responses to answer all your questions so please bear with me. Initially i shall deal with your 70's Motown questions.
As regards "it's my house" it suffered because there was also a cover version out by a reggae act who's name currently escapes me. For some reason radio 1 decided to go with that version. It was rush released just before Diana's and certain DJ'S such as Dave Lee Travis tried to claim it was Diana who had released a cover version. As a result both versions stalled in the 30's and radio 1 gave Diana little airplay. There is a reason for this. A certain"high up" person at radio 1 had a personal feud with a certain person at Motown UK. Check just how few motown songs charted around this period. It was very political.
Mahogany was always expected to chart when the film was released and you are quite right when you say it was merely re=promoted to coincide with Diana's tour which was the first time i saw Diana.
As regards my book - watch this space. I also had encounters with many other stars including Whitney, Mariah, Britney, Christina, J Lo, Anita Baker, Elton, George Michael and the recently deceased Prince to name but a few. Some were lovely, others were a total nightmare .
Love Hangover should have been bigger. Not sure why it only just scraped into the top 10. The album had sold well but i cannot explain too much as to why it didn't go higher because radio 1 was well behind the song.
Not time to write any more just now but i hope the above is a little helpful to you Florence,

[jobeterob]

Love to see your posts Bluebrock. Wish you'd been here years ago because we've lost quite a few semi connected music people. Or they just got tired of talking about it!

[Bluebrock]

Love to see your posts Bluebrock. Wish you'd been here years ago because we've lost quite a few semi connected music people. Or they just got tired of talking about it!
Thank you jobeterob. Very kind words. I have lots to say and so long as people want to listen i will hang around.
It is so much easier to talk when you are no longer directly involved in the business, but i still have friends who are involved and they continue to keep me updated on certain subjects. Thank you again. I will check back in tomorrow when i should have more time.

[reese]

I thought that I read somewhere that Motown wanted to include ENDLESS LOVE on To Love Again but only got single rights to release it as polydor ?? got the right to use it on the lp soundtrack. as a result ,they released a Michael Masser tribute album instead. with all the left over tracks in the vault ,you would think that Motown would have released more original material , especially since they released the ALL THE GREAT HITS several months later

I don't think ENDLESS LOVE could have figured into the TO LOVE AGAIN album. From what I remember, TO LOVE AGAIN was released in February or March of 1981. ENDLESS LOVE wasn't released until the following summer.

[Jimi LaLumia]

bluebrock did you have anything to do with the 80's new wave acts over there like Toyah?

[Bluebrock]

bluebrock did you have anything to do with the 80's new wave acts over there like Toyah?
I didn't work with Toyah but i did work with several UK acts including Spandau Ballet, Duran Duran, Culture Club, Heaven 17, Abc, Haircut 100, Yazoo, Alison Moyet, Kim Wilde. Most of them were absolute dolls.

[Jaap]

As regards "it's my house" it suffered because there was also a cover version out by a reggae act who's name currently escapes me.

The group was called Storm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2_CLFAk2fE

[Bluebrock]

The group was called Storm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2_CLFAk2fE
Thank you for that!!

[Jaap]

I don't think ENDLESS LOVE could have figured into the TO LOVE AGAIN album. From what I remember, TO LOVE AGAIN was released in February or March of 1981. ENDLESS LOVE wasn't released until the following summer.

If I remember correctly, that is correct. The story about including Endless Love at that time might be related to Diana's Duets, which was released in september 1981, when "Endless Love" was on the charts. The US version of the album did not include Endless Love [[though the international version did). But then, the song was included on All The Greatest Hits, which was just released one month later.

It was always my understanding that To Love Again was intended to be an album with only new recordings composed and produced by Michael Masser, but that the recording of the vocals were never completed because Ross left Motown. Therefore, Motown filled the remaining of the album with the hits songs Ross did of Masser. Unfortunately, the liner notes of the CD don't say anything about that. The other unreleased songs mentioned were intended for the more dance oriented Revelations album that Motown was planning to release, but apparently didn't when Ross publicly said that BG would never do that.

[jobeterob]

That makes sense

[florence]

Bluerock

With regard to It's My House in the UK I was referring to the fact that it was featured on a investigative TV show World In Action into the charts and also a member of Storm made allegations that NEITHER version should actually have been in the top 40.

?

If for example she had had the same team behind her as in the 90s I'm pretty sure the singles from Swept Away and subsequently the album woud have done massively better.

How free a hand did EMI have in deciding what to release as a single in the UK? Presumably Diana had the final say as evidenced by Heart [[Don't Change My Mind)? That was certainly a big mistake.

[Bluebrock]

If I remember correctly, that is correct. The story about including Endless Love at that time might be related to Diana's Duets, which was released in september 1981, when "Endless Love" was on the charts. The US version of the album did not include Endless Love [[though the international version did). But then, the song was included on All The Greatest Hits, which was just released one month later.

It was always my understanding that To Love Again was intended to be an album with only new recordings composed and produced by Michael Masser, but that the recording of the vocals were never completed because Ross left Motown. Therefore, Motown filled the remaining of the album with the hits songs Ross did of Masser. Unfortunately, the liner notes of the CD don't say anything about that. The other unreleased songs mentioned were intended for the more dance oriented Revelations album that Motown was planning to release, but apparently didn't when Ross publicly said that BG would never do that.
You are correct. It was originally intended as an all new album but Diana's decision to leave Motown left Berry reeling and further recordings were abandoned.
Berry initially vowed to release a "new" Ross motown album for every new RCA album but the pair of them soon kissed and made up and this never happened.

[Bluebrock]

Bluerock

With regard to It's My House in the UK I was referring to the fact that it was featured on a investigative TV show World In Action into the charts and also a member of Storm made allegations that NEITHER version should actually have been in the top 40.

?

If for example she had had the same team behind her as in the 90s I'm pretty sure the singles from Swept Away and subsequently the album woud have done massively better.

How free a hand did EMI have in deciding what to release as a single in the UK? Presumably Diana had the final say as evidenced by Heart [[Don't Change My Mind)? That was certainly a big mistake.
Diana was usually more than happy to let us choose the singles, but we had to contact her for official permission but she never blocked a release. Even in the early 70's Motown UK could pretty much release what they deemed as suitable singles, but as a matter of courtesy Diana was always kept informed and no singles were ever released until she gave the nod, which to the best of my knowledge she always did.

[Bluebrock]

Bluerock

With regard to It's My House in the UK I was referring to the fact that it was featured on a investigative TV show World In Action into the charts and also a member of Storm made allegations that NEITHER version should actually have been in the top 40.

?

If for example she had had the same team behind her as in the 90s I'm pretty sure the singles from Swept Away and subsequently the album woud have done massively better.

How free a hand did EMI have in deciding what to release as a single in the UK? Presumably Diana had the final say as evidenced by Heart [[Don't Change My Mind)? That was certainly a big mistake.
Very well remembered Florence and i'm afraid i am unable to say anything about this situation. I wasn't personally involved in this but i do know people who are or were.

I agree about "swept away". Had i been in charge i'm sure we could have made "touch by touch" a much bigger hit. It had everything going for it but was not promoted properly, and the fact that "swept away"was never a UK single defies logic. Diana had enemies in the camp at this time. How else can you explain why "missing you" stalled at no.76 on two occasions. Coincidence my flabby backside!!

[daviddh]

thank you Bluebrock. I appreciate you putting the pieces of the puzzle together. as I get older I remember things differently or incorrectly.

[daviddh]

what I find strange is , how careful Motown was with the Supremes releases, they didn't seem to be as such with Ross solo career. I take into effect she was now married with children, and a actress. but she wasn't very visiable in the US at times except for a couple tv specials and a "few" Tonight Show appearances,
you rarely saw her in the states.
I thought there were more singles on DR76, and Diana. but Motown seem to dro[ the ball.
Ross 78, I liked the newer tracks especially tracks by Greg Wright. I hope there are more tracks produced by him. I would have loved an album produced entirely by him on Ross

[Bluebrock]

what I find strange is , how careful Motown was with the Supremes releases, they didn't seem to be as such with Ross solo career. I take into effect she was now married with children, and a actress. but she wasn't very visiable in the US at times except for a couple tv specials and a "few" Tonight Show appearances,
you rarely saw her in the states.
I thought there were more singles on DR76, and Diana. but Motown seem to dro[ the ball.
Ross 78, I liked the newer tracks especially tracks by Greg Wright. I hope there are more tracks produced by him. I would have loved an album produced entirely by him on Ross
Gordy was determined to make Ross the ""Black Streisand". He wanted her to move into films. host her own regular TV show and be a regular at Vegas. Hit singles would be a bonus but no longer crucial. Diana herself was as you correctly point out a mother by this time, and despite wanting to continue her career she was first and foremost a mother and that was her priority. Of all the female stars i worked with no other star appeared to be as devoted to her children as Diana. I could tell you some stories about other less devoted mothers that would make your hair curl. In the late 80's and throughout the 90's every career move was juggled around her children and she never made any apologies for this. It merely made me respect her all the more. I knew all her children's Birthdays and i always ensured we did not arrange any foreign trips without taking this into consideration.

[Ollie9]

I do remember reading that songs Masser had intended for the To Love Again Album were later recorded with Dionne Warwick and included on her "Hot! Live And Otherwise" album. I would have loved to have heard a Diana version of "Now We're Starting Over Again". This could have been a massive hit for her.

[Bluebrock]

I do remember reading that songs Masser had intended for the To Love Again Album were later recorded with Dionne Warwick and included on her "Hot! Live And Otherwise" album. I would have loved to have heard a Diana version of "Now We're Starting Over Again". This could have been a massive hit for her.
I've heard this story too but i don't know how accurate it is. It certainly possible even probable. I know Natalie Cole also recorded "nwsoa" not long afterwards. I do know how disappointed Dionne was with the muted reaction to the studio cuts on "hlao". She felt Arista did not promote the album despite gushing sleevenotes from Clive Davies.

[JohnnyB]

I do remember reading that songs Masser had intended for the To Love Again Album were later recorded with Dionne Warwick and included on her "Hot! Live And Otherwise" album. I would have loved to have heard a Diana version of "Now We're Starting Over Again". This could have been a massive hit for her.

There is a bonus track on Dionne's recently expanded No Night So Long CD, written by Michael Masser, that I'm convinced was meant for Diana. It's called This Time Is Ours and is recorded in a higher key than Dionne's norm. Recorded in 1980, it sounds very similar to the To Love Again tracks. Are you familiar with it?

[reese]

I've heard this story too but i don't know how accurate it is. It certainly possible even probable. I know Natalie Cole also recorded "nwsoa" not long afterwards. I do know how disappointed Dionne was with the muted reaction to the studio cuts on "hlao". She felt Arista did not promote the album despite gushing sleevenotes from Clive Davies.

I saw Dionne in concert the summer after HOT! LIVE AND OTHERWISE was released. By that time, SOME CHANGES ARE FOR GOOD had flopped. After performing it, she mentioned her displeasure with SOME CHANGES as the choice for the first single and said Arista should have released THERE'S A LONG ROAD AHEAD OF US instead, which she then performed to a standing ovation.

[Bluebrock]

There is a bonus track on Dionne's recently expanded No Night So Long CD, written by Michael Masser, that I'm convinced was meant for Diana. It's called This Time Is Ours and is recorded in a higher key than Dionne's norm. Recorded in 1980, it sounds very similar to the To Love Again tracks. Are you familiar with it?
Yes i am a huge Dionne fan and have the expanded version of "no night so long" which i think is one of Dionne's strongest albums. I honestly do not know if this song was originally intended for Diana but i know a man who may know and an e-mail will be going out shortly. I do know Dionne cut several tracks with Michael Masser some of which have yet to see the light of day. Going slightly off topic "don't give up on us" from "Eaten Alive" was originally recorded by Dionne during the "heartbreaker" sessions but remains in the vault with many other songs.

[JohnnyB]

Yes i am a huge Dionne fan and have the expanded version of "no night so long" which i think is one of Dionne's strongest albums. I honestly do not know if this song was originally intended for Diana but i know a man who may know and an e-mail will be going out shortly. I do know Dionne cut several tracks with Michael Masser some of which have yet to see the light of day. Going slightly off topic "don't give up on us" from "Eaten Alive" was originally recorded by Dionne during the "heartbreaker" sessions but remains in the vault with many other songs.

I agree about No Night So Long, a beautiful album. It will be interesting to see if my ears are correct about This Time. I have to say I have truly enjoyed the information you've provided about Diana and the behind-the-scenes decision making process. Thank you for sharing...

[Bluebrock]

I agree about No Night So Long, a beautiful album. It will be interesting to see if my ears are correct about This Time. I have to say I have truly enjoyed the information you've provided about Diana and the behind-the-scenes decision making process. Thank you for sharing...
My pleasure Johnny. Glad you appreciate it.

[jobeterob]

Was there ever any consideration to Summertime being released as a single?

[Bluebrock]

Was there ever any consideration to Summertime being released as a single?

Before my time but I don't think so.

[jobeterob]

Not sure it could have been a hit single but easily the best song on that album.

[Ollie9]

Talking of Dionne, has anyone ever heard the duet she recorded with Mary Wilson titled "Heartbreak Of Love". It was intended for her Reservations For Two album but never released. Dionne also recorded it with June Pointer, which is the version featured on the album.

[Bluebrock]

Talking of Dionne, has anyone ever heard the duet she recorded with Mary Wilson titled "Heartbreak Of Love". It was intended for her Reservations For Two album but never released. Dionne also recorded it with June Pointer, which is the version featured on the album.
Yes I heard it back in the 80's. Dionne recorded enough duets for another album and amongst the artists not included on "rft" were Glenn Jones [[not "finders of lost loves") , Stevie Wonder [[who blocked the release) and Neil Diamond. Some songs were recorded with up to 3 duet partners. It would make a great expanded cd. I wish Mary's duet had been included. Not totally sure why it wasn't but I shall try to find out.

[Ollie9]

Yes I heard it back in the 80's. Dionne recorded enough duets for another album and amongst the artists not included on "rft" were Glenn Jones [[not "finders of lost loves") , Stevie Wonder [[who blocked the release) and Neil Diamond. Some songs were recorded with up to 3 duet partners. It would make a great expanded cd. I wish Mary's duet had been included. Not totally sure why it wasn't but I shall try to find out.

I have never heard the duet as sung with Mary, but can hear her voice singing it in my mind. I do think the style of the song would have fit her voice like a glove. Was Dionne outshone lol.
I have always thought many of the duets from this album would have suited Marys style and were the type of songs she should have recorded for her solo album.
Back to M's Ross, i have always wondered if the reason "I Ain't Been Licked" [[Fab song) was overlooked as a single was because the title sounds a bit rude???. Other than that it is very radio friendly.

[Bluebrock]

I have never heard the duet as sung with Mary, but can hear her voice singing it in my mind. I do think the style of the song would have fit her voice like a glove. Was Dionne outshone lol.
I have always thought many of the duets from this album would have suited Marys style and were the type of songs she should have recorded for her solo album.
Back to M's Ross, i have always wondered if the reason "I Ain't Been Licked" [[Fab song) was overlooked as a single was because the title sounds a bit rude???. Other than that it is very radio friendly.
Without wishing to go off topic Dionne was most definitely not outshone by Mary. Dionne was at the peak of her vocal power and much as I love Mary her vocals were not in the same class which is part of the reason why the track was canned, but we are going off topic here.
As regards "i ain't been licked" I would have chosen it as the 2nd single. It could and should have been a smash. Motown UK and Motown USA went with different songs for the 2nd single. Motown UK chose "no-one gets the prize" because it got some action in the clubs but was not picked up by radio. Wrong choice in my opinion. Motown USA went with "it's my house". Don't know why they did but again I would consider it to be the wrong decision. "iabl" is classic Ross and Diana herself was puzzled as to why it was not a single when I discussed it with her 15 years later. A lost opportunity for sure.

[Ollie9]

"No One Gets The Prize" was always my least favourite song on the album, and i knew in my bones it would never become a hit when released as a single. The same thing happened with "Your Love Is So Good For Me". Because the clubs picked up on it, hey ho it surely has to be a hit...Nah!.
I really think IABL had far more potential as a single than even "The Boss".
My pick of singles from this sparkling album.....at least in the UK would have been....
1. It's My House.
2. I Ain't Been Licked.
3. All For One.

[Bluebrock]

"No One Gets The Prize" was always my least favourite song on the album, and i knew in my bones it would never become a hit when released as a single. The same thing happened with "Your Love Is So Good For Me". Because the clubs picked up on it, hey ho it surely has to be a hit...Nah!.
I really think IABL had far more potential as a single than even "The Boss".
My pick of singles from this sparkling album.....at least in the UK would have been....
1. It's My House.
2. I Ain't Been Licked.
3. All For One.

I would have gone with the title track as the 1st single but I would have made sure that radio 1 picked up on it by whatever means necessary. Motown UK were asleep. It should have gone top 10 as should "iabl" as the 2nd single. I would have picked "it's my house" as the 3rd single. Sometimes you have to bully radio stations to play your product. I would have made this album a big success. Call be big headed but I would have done.

[Bluebrock]

I would have gone with the title track as the 1st single but I would have made sure that radio 1 picked up on it by whatever means necessary. Motown UK were asleep. It should have gone top 10 as should "iabl" as the 2nd single. I would have picked "it's my house" as the 3rd single. Sometimes you have to bully radio stations to play your product. I would have made this album a big success. Call be big headed but I would have done.
As regards "baby it's me" I agree that "ylisgfm" was the wrong choice of 2nd single. I would have gone for "all night lover". Tony Blackburn loved this song and he once told me how disappointed he was that it didn't get to be a single. I think had this been a hit we could have made "top of the world" a success off the back of it. As it happened it stalled at no 66.

[thommg]

I guess it just shows that everyone has different tastes. I would never have picked It's My House as a single. I find the song uninteresting and it's not one of my favorites. The Boss, I Ain't Been Licked and No One Gets The Prize were my favorites of the LP.

[Bluebrock]

I guess it just shows that everyone has different tastes. I would never have picked It's My House as a single. I find the song uninteresting and it's not one of my favorites. The Boss, I Ain't Been Licked and No One Gets The Prize were my favorites of the LP.
I agree to a certain extent. It is my least favourite track on the album. It goes on far too long but there is some kind of strange quality about it that could have struck big had it been promoted better.

[florence]

Very interesting opinions but were any of Diana's records going to be big hits in the UK in the late 70s?

I've always maintained Never Say I Don't Love You should have been the A-side instead of Prize.

As Bluerock has mentioned, given that RCA tried several times to break Missing You it really is strange that it never even manged to break the top 75 although it spent two months yo-yoing around just outside it and will probably have sold more than many of those which were in the lower part for a couple of weeks.

Swept Away was a superb album which was hampered by bad promotion of the singles in the UK but on a personal level and contrary to the consensus I actually thought Missing You was one of the weakest tracks on it - it sounded disjointed and forced to me - and the other track I wasn't overkeen on was All Of You - but there you go MY it was Diana's last major hit in her homeland.

I see you mention Top Of The World as reaching #66. The UK charts were a top 50 then so I assume this was information supplied to the record companies?

Do you have any position for Your Love Is So Good For Me? I know they both made the top 75 in the pilot charts Gallup produced in 1978.

Loved All Night Lover - could have gone either way as a single but if Tony Balckburn was behind it then its chances must have been good!

[jobeterob]

All Night Lover was an obvious first single but as they say in the booklet for the recent release, there were too many strong cuts on the album and no consensus on what should have been pushed. I would have gone for All Night Lover even if it was a bit of the old Supremes sound.

Missing You figured much higher on the sales portion of the Billboard Top 100 than the airplay portion. My recollection is that in the USA, it reached as high as #4 on the sale portion.

By that time, Diana Ross was 40 years old - an old fart in a business that is looking for 20 year olds.

[Jaap]

Was there ever any consideration to Summertime being released as a single?

To me, and many others I'm sure, the obvious single of RHR&B would/should have been "It's Hard For Me To Say." And every time I hear that song I feel sorry that Ross never let Vandross do a whole album for her.

[Bluebrock]

To me, and many others I'm sure, the obvious single of RHR&B would/should have been "It's Hard For Me To Say." And every time I hear that song I feel sorry that Ross never let Vandross do a whole album for her.
Luther would be pleased to hear you say that. He did everything in his power to make it happen, and later on Diana herself also expressed similar sentiments.

[Ollie9]

I think it fair to say that after 85, no matter how commerciall the song or brilliant the promotion America was never going to give Diana another hit album or single. I think she should have focussed all her energies on promoting her music in parts of the world that continued to appreciate the quality of music she was still producing.

I was playing RHR&B this morning and thinking how fresh it still sounds. Songs such as Why Do Fools Fall In Love and Sweet Nothings would have fitted perfectly on this album. I so wish this had been her RCA debut with Tom Dowd at the helm. The production alone is far superior and i think it would have made for a nice RCA debut, with those two songs included......Many more potential hit singles me thinks.

[Bluebrock]

Very interesting opinions but were any of Diana's records going to be big hits in the UK in the late 70s?

I've always maintained Never Say I Don't Love You should have been the A-side instead of Prize.

As Bluerock has mentioned, given that RCA tried several times to break Missing You it really is strange that it never even manged to break the top 75 although it spent two months yo-yoing around just outside it and will probably have sold more than many of those which were in the lower part for a couple of weeks.

Swept Away was a superb album which was hampered by bad promotion of the singles in the UK but on a personal level and contrary to the consensus I actually thought Missing You was one of the weakest tracks on it - it sounded disjointed and forced to me - and the other track I wasn't overkeen on was All Of You - but there you go MY it was Diana's last major hit in her homeland.

I see you mention Top Of The World as reaching #66. The UK charts were a top 50 then so I assume this was information supplied to the record companies?

Do you have any position for Your Love Is So Good For Me? I know they both made the top 75 in the pilot charts Gallup produced in 1978.

Loved All Night Lover - could have gone either way as a single but if Tony Balckburn was behind it then its chances must have been good!

Florence - All of Diana's singles made the top 100. As regards "ylisgfm" it peaked at something like no,81 and only spent a couple of weeks on the chart. The top 100 was available to people in the industry but not the general public

[florence]

Florence - All of Diana's singles made the top 100. As regards "ylisgfm" it peaked at something like no,81 and only spent a couple of weeks on the chart. The top 100 was available to people in the industry but not the general public

That's really interesting - even Funky Old Rolls?

I remember thinking it had no chance - it didn't even seem to be on sale in the shops! I had to order it especially and even then it took nearly three weeks to arrive.

[Bluebrock]

That's really interesting - even Funky Old Rolls?

I remember thinking it had no chance - it didn't even seem to be on sale in the shops! I had to order it especially and even then it took nearly three weeks to arrive.
Yes, even "old funky rolls" spent 3 weeks in the top 100 peaking at no.88!!!

[daviddh]

I loved All Night Lover,top Of The world and Getting Ready For Love

[Bluebrock]

I loved All Night Lover,top Of The world and Getting Ready For Love
It was a great album that should have done much better. Curiously enough it is not amongst Diana's personal favourites.

[Ollie9]

It was a great album that should have done much better. Curiously enough it is not amongst Diana's personal favourites.

The question i'm sure everyone is dying to know is......Have you any idea what Diana's favourite or most liked album is. I dont know why but i'm suprised BIM is not one she is fond of. Perhaps that is why she never promoted her latest single at the time"Your Love Is So Good For Me" when she was in concert at the London Palladium early 78.
At a Guess i would say it might be Diana Ross 70 or Take Me Higher.

[Bluebrock]

The question i'm sure everyone is dying to know is......Have you any idea what Diana's favourite or most liked album is. I dont know why but i'm suprised BIM is not one she is fond of. Perhaps that is why she never promoted her latest single at the time"Your Love Is So Good For Me" when she was in concert at the London Palladium early 78.
At a Guess i would say it might be Diana Ross 70 or Take Me Higher.

You are quite correct Ollie. Diana Ross 70, Touch Me In The Morning, The Boss, Force Behind the Power and Take Me Higher. She disliked Everything is Everything. Last Time I Saw Him and especially Working Overtime if my memory serves me correctly.

[florence]

Bluerock

What was the story behind Goin' Back being shelved as a single?

Any ideas why Endless Love was never certified Silver? s

Although it only reached #7 it seemed to be at a period of high sales for in the first year end chart for 1981 based on panel sales it was in the BMRB top 50 suggesting just under 300k sold.

Apparently as Endless Love was being released Motown was changing its distributor interestingly from EMI to RCA so that sales were split between the two and neither had shipped enough copies to claim Silver.

But the Record Company would have to keep a record of the total sales and I really can't believe that somebody couldn't have realised that the record had easily passed the quarter million?
what happened here?

[Ollie9]

You are quite correct Ollie. Diana Ross 70, Touch Me In The Morning, The Boss, Force Behind the Power and Take Me Higher. She disliked Everything is Everything. Last Time I Saw Him and especially Working Overtime if my memory serves me correctly.
It's kind of reassuring to know that Diana recognises those which are her classic albums. I have never really liked LTISH much either. It's a great shame they did not revisit the songs not used from the intended "To The Baby" album, add a few songs a little sympathetic to the theme such as "Love Me" and released that instead.

[Bluebrock]

Bluerock

What was the story behind Goin' Back being shelved as a single?

Any ideas why Endless Love was never certified Silver? s

Although it only reached #7 it seemed to be at a period of high sales for in the first year end chart for 1981 based on panel sales it was in the BMRB top 50 suggesting just under 300k sold.

Apparently as Endless Love was being released Motown was changing its distributor interestingly from EMI to RCA so that sales were split between the two and neither had shipped enough copies to claim Silver.

But the Record Company would have to keep a record of the total sales and I really can't believe that somebody couldn't have realised that the record had easily passed the quarter million?
what happened here?
Hello Florence. As regards "going back" we had prepared the release of the song as a single to further promote the "love and life" double cd. We wanted to catch the lucrative Christmas market, Diana had a big role in choosing the tracks for the album. We recorded two new songs and chose "going back" out of the two. We booked Diana for a 10 day European visit and booked slots on "totp", "cduk" and the "jonathan Ross show". We also booked TV appearances in Germany, France and Italy, and then a terrorist threat prevented Diana from flying over. It was all very cloak and dagger stuff. Without Diana over here to promote it we withdrew the single though i believe Belgium went ahead and released the single. We had also provisionally decided to finally release "until we meet again" as the follow up single but of course that did not happen either.Despite all thisthe album sold well.
Diana loved Dusty Springfield's version of "going back" and until the terrorist threat she was 100& behind it's release. Personally i didn't care much for it but i thought we had a hit on our hands. However it was not meant to be.
As regards "endless love" it was before my time but you are correct when you say it should have been certified silver. It certainly sold enough but the change of distributors had a negative effect on it as you rightly suspected. Hope this helps.

[Ollie9]

Have you any idea what happened after the release of the "Love And Life" compilation Bluebrock. I know she was dropped by Motown and did have personal problems, but did Diana not try for a recording contract with another label. It's as if everything came to a grinding halt until 2005.

[Bluebrock]

Have you any idea what happened after the release of the "Love And Life" compilation Bluebrock. I know she was dropped by Motown and did have personal problems, but did Diana not try for a recording contract with another label. It's as if everything came to a grinding halt until 2005.
She took time out. She was unwell and she had a break whilst she dealt with her ongoing problems. Clive Davies wanted to sign her to his label but he wanted her to do a series of "great American Songbook" type albums. Diana wanted to do something more modern but her demands put other labels off. She had numerous offers but for various reasons all these discussions came to nothing.

[daviddh]

thanks for clearing that Bluebrook. I thought she may have had album deals offered.

[Bluebrock]

It's kind of reassuring to know that Diana recognises those which are her classic albums. I have never really liked LTISH much either. It's a great shame they did not revisit the songs not used from the intended "To The Baby" album, add a few songs a little sympathetic to the theme such as "Love Me" and released that instead.

She was also quite pleased with the "surrender" album and also the Black album but she hated the fact that it was just called "Diana Ross" a mere 6 years after her debut. Never could understand why it wasn't called Love Hangover to be honest.

[reese]

She was also quite pleased with the "surrender" album and also the Black album but she hated the fact that it was just called "Diana Ross" a mere 6 years after her debut. Never could understand why it wasn't called Love Hangover to be honest.

I remember the first time I saw the "Black Album." in a store. I thought the title was THEME FROM MAHOGANY... because she already had an album called DIANA ROSS.

But looking at the songs on it, I don't think any of them would have made a great album title. And since LOVE HANGOVER was only an album track until the 5th Dimension's version forced its release as a single, I can understand why it wasn't named after it.

[Bluebrock]

I remember the first time I saw the "Black Album." in a store. I thought the title was THEME FROM MAHOGANY... because she already had an album called DIANA ROSS.

But looking at the songs on it, I don't think any of them would have made a great album title. And since LOVE HANGOVER was only an album track until the 5th Dimension's version forced its release as a single, I can understand why it wasn't named after it.

I still think "love hangover" would have made a good album title. It was obviously a showcase track on the album both innovative and creative and a future classic, but then what do I know?

[Ollie9]

Plenty of albums are named after a song that was never released as a single. Everything Is Everything being just one example. I can understand why her solo debut album was named after her but not the black album. I think "Love Hangover sounds a terrific title.
ross 83 also displayed just a tad lack of imagination. I would have called it " Pink".
But seriously i think "Upfront" would have made for a more interesting title..

[Bluebrock]

Plenty of albums are named after a song that was never released as a single. Everything Is Everything being just one example. I can understand why her solo debut album was named after her but not the black album. I think "Love Hangover sounds a terrific title.
ross 83 also displayed just a tad lack of imagination. I would have called it " Pink".
But seriously i think "Upfront" would have made for a more interesting title..
I agree Ollie.It was just plain lazy of Motown to not give the Black album a better title. Good call with Ross83. I think album titles are very important and can affect sales just as a good/bad cover can. Diana was always given the final say on her album covers and she generally did a fine job, but it was not until she left Motown that she chose the album titles. It would have all been so different had i managed her........

[thommg]

It's kind of reassuring to know that Diana recognises those which are her classic albums. I have never really liked LTISH much either. It's a great shame they did not revisit the songs not used from the intended "To The Baby" album, add a few songs a little sympathetic to the theme such as "Love Me" and released that instead.

I never liked the song Last Time I Saw Him, but I had a great fondness for the album. I thought it showed Diana is a different light than previous releases, a little more earthy, a little gritty. i liked that, not as a new direction but as a side street before getting back on the highway.

[Bluebrock]

I never liked the song Last Time I Saw Him, but I had a great fondness for the album. I thought it showed Diana is a different light than previous releases, a little more earthy, a little gritty. i liked that, not as a new direction but as a side street before getting back on the highway.
It's nice that some people did appreciate it. Personally i thought it was a dull, disjointed effort with no standout tracks. Great description thommg!! You have a way with words,

[thommg]

It's nice that some people did appreciate it. Personally i thought it was a dull, disjointed effort with no standout tracks. Great description thommg!! You have a way with words,

Thanks, Bluebrock! I have been enjoying all your "backstage" tales. They put a real human feature on things that are sometimes discussed in a dry, formulaic way.

[Bluebrock]

Thanks, Bluebrock! I have been enjoying all your "backstage" tales. They put a real human feature on things that are sometimes discussed in a dry, formulaic way.
Thank you very much thommg. It is so nice to look back on a very important part of my life and share some good, and not so good memories with people who share my great passion for music.

[daviddh]

sorry to say to I really disliked the Last Time I saw Him lp, thought it was a filler album and have only played it since it was released on cd. I think the out takes were far better than the songs they released but I also feel that way about most of the songs on Everything Is Everything. I would have issued Blue instead of LTISH. so many out standing out takes left in the can , especially .....WHAT ARE YOU DOING THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. what a great vocal and song.

[Bluebrock]

sorry to say to I really disliked the Last Time I saw Him lp, thought it was a filler album and have only played it since it was released on cd. I think the out takes were far better than the songs they released but I also feel that way about most of the songs on Everything Is Everything. I would have issued Blue instead of LTISH. so many out standing out takes left in the can , especially .....WHAT ARE YOU DOING THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. what a great vocal and song.
Couldn't agree with you more david. The only excuse i can offer in Berry's defence is that he was too busy attempting to make Diana a big screen Goddess and all round entertainer. He certainly took his foot off the pedal with her recording career when he authorised "eie" and "ltish". Little or no thought was put into these projects. Diana was forced to record songs she didn't like and work with producers who did not know how to get the best out of her. Even Ross78 though musically satisfying was a lazy and slap hazard attempt. Diana had no say in what was released and what was canned. Having said that she did need some guidance as was proved when she had total creative control at RCA and look at some of the stinkers she put out during that period. She needed someone who was not intimately involved with her but who would listen to her, stand up to her when necessary and offer unbiased advice. We did so well with her in the late 80's and 90's but i wish i had been around a little earlier when things could have been so much better.

[florence]

Not too much love here for Last Time I Saw Him.

I quite liked the album with tracks like No One's Gonna Be A Fool Forever, I Heard A Love Song, Stone Liberty and particularly her version of Charlie Rich's Behind Closed Doors which I thought she sang with great vocal versatility.

The title track was one of her biggest selling solo singles in the US. Although it "only" reached #14 it actually went top 10 in both the sales only based Cashbox and Record World and was massive in the Adult Contemporary market. It was certainy different.

Before your time, Bluerock but what do you know of I'm Gonna Make You Love me? One of my older brothers often mentioned it. He was aggrieved that although it wasn't banned by the BBC and reached #3 in the UK chart it was completely ignored by Top Of The Pops.

I don't know how far behind the top 2 it was but when you consider the amazing purchasing power TOTP could generate you've gotta think this record could have missed out big time?

With Good Morning Heartache [[twice), My Mistake and You're A Special Part of Me all making the breakers and presumably therefore in the top 100 it looks to me as the only Diana UK singles which didn't make this were definitely This House, probably Don't Knock My Love and what of What You Gave Me. Do you know how this did?

I can't understand how I missed this being released as a single back then. It just shows that no-one really knows what makes a hit single - that was a track I would have predicted would be one.

There is a well known guy on the internet who purports to be something of an expert on album sales. [[ I make no comment on this.)

He claims that unless an album of Diana's reached a certification level within a reasonable time of release EMI often never bothered and some of them subsequently reached certification level or a higher one which were never claimed. Obviously not the case for Motown's Greatest Hits or One Woman.

I know some of Diana's albums mostly compilations did continue to sell steadily particularly in the 80s and 90s. In 2000 without charting she sold 71k. Although she has such a big catalogue many of these will probably have sold only a small number each and a couple of the compilations maybe into 5 figures.

Based on the top 1000 selling albums in the UK Diana sold around 187k in 1984 for example. She was #s 72, 517, 521, 545, 695 and 835 in the list. The #72 will have sold in the low 100ks so you can see that lower down the figures aren't that high but you could be talking up to 10k. Over a couple of years ths would not be a really big amount but over a decade this could mount up substantially so it could be possible that some of Diana's albums did reach new certification levels?

What would your take on this be?

[Bluebrock]

Not too much love here for Last Time I Saw Him.

I quite liked the album with tracks like No One's Gonna Be A Fool Forever, I Heard A Love Song, Stone Liberty and particularly her version of Charlie Rich's Behind Closed Doors which I thought she sang with great vocal versatility.

The title track was one of her biggest selling solo singles in the US. Although it "only" reached #14 it actually went top 10 in both the sales only based Cashbox and Record World and was massive in the Adult Contemporary market. It was certainy different.

Before your time, Bluerock but what do you know of I'm Gonna Make You Love me? One of my older brothers often mentioned it. He was aggrieved that although it wasn't banned by the BBC and reached #3 in the UK chart it was completely ignored by Top Of The Pops.

I don't know how far behind the top 2 it was but when you consider the amazing purchasing power TOTP could generate you've gotta think this record could have missed out big time?

With Good Morning Heartache [[twice), My Mistake and You're A Special Part of Me all making the breakers and presumably therefore in the top 100 it looks to me as the only Diana UK singles which didn't make this were definitely This House, probably Don't Knock My Love and what of What You Gave Me. Do you know how this did?

I can't understand how I missed this being released as a single back then. It just shows that no-one really knows what makes a hit single - that was a track I would have predicted would be one.

There is a well known guy on the internet who purports to be something of an expert on album sales. [[ I make no comment on this.)

He claims that unless an album of Diana's reached a certification level within a reasonable time of release EMI often never bothered and some of them subsequently reached certification level or a higher one which were never claimed. Obviously not the case for Motown's Greatest Hits or One Woman.

I know some of Diana's albums mostly compilations did continue to sell steadily particularly in the 80s and 90s. In 2000 without charting she sold 71k. Although she has such a big catalogue many of these will probably have sold only a small number each and a couple of the compilations maybe into 5 figures.

Based on the top 1000 selling albums in the UK Diana sold around 187k in 1984 for example. She was #s 72, 517, 521, 545, 695 and 835 in the list. The #72 will have sold in the low 100ks so you can see that lower down the figures aren't that high but you could be talking up to 10k. Over a couple of years ths would not be a really big amount but over a decade this could mount up substantially so it could be possible that some of Diana's albums did reach new certification levels?

What would your take on this be?
I know of the guy you refer to on the internet. I think he has some valid points which could well be true. EMI certainly did not always bother to claim gold and silver discs. It was just a policy of theirs which appears ridiculous in these more enlightened times. Diana always has been a steady seller in the UK and still is to this very day.
As regards your question about "igmylm" it is perfectly true that TOTP ignored ths song. I am too young to remember this but i do know that Motown UK did complain about this at the time. Hd both groups been available to fly to the UK i have no doubt TOTP would granted them an appearance, It certainly had no.1 written all over it. The producers attempted to calm the situation by promoting "no matter what sign you are" and the next Temps duet "i second that emotion". Strangely Mary told me the girls appeared on TOTP singing "no matter what sign you are"but according to the TOTP database that is not true. Perhaps Mary just got mixed up but she insisted they did so i did not argue.
As i said in an earlier post each and every one of Diana's solo singles made the top 100 including "what you gave me" and "this house". I will get back to you on this. I'm sure "don't knock my love" also made a fleeting appearance. There were certainly 4 Diana/Marvin duets that charted but i cannot recall off hand if 5 were released? I am sure you can tell me that. You sound like you know your stuff!

[Jaap]

Without Diana over here to promote it we withdrew the single though i believe Belgium went ahead and released the single. We had also provisionally decided to finally release "until we meet again" as the follow up single but of course that did not happen either.Despite all thisthe album sold well.
Diana loved Dusty Springfield's version of "going back" and until the terrorist threat she was 100& behind it's release. Personally i didn't care much for it but i thought we had a hit on our hands. However it was not meant to be..

"Going Back" was also released in the Netherlands and made the charts, though did not chart high. I remember being excited about Diana Ross being produced by Guy Chambers, but when the song came out, I was a bit disappointed by the track. The vocals are good but the production to me sounded too bombastic. Obviously, with such a stellar version by Dusty it is a difficult song to cover. The music video was a collage of earlier music videos, clearly a rushed job. And the "b-side" was credited as "Not Over You Jet" [[which is the Dutch phonetically way of spelling Yet). A missed opportunity indeed. I'm curious to hear what the other song is that Ross recorded, but you are probably not at liberty to tell us that ;-).

[Bluebrock]

"Going Back" was also released in the Netherlands and made the charts, though did not chart high. I remember being excited about Diana Ross being produced by Guy Chambers, but when the song came out, I was a bit disappointed by the track. The vocals are good but the production to me sounded too bombastic. Obviously, with such a stellar version by Dusty it is a difficult song to cover. The music video was a collage of earlier music videos, clearly a rushed job. And the "b-side" was credited as "Not Over You Jet" [[which is the Dutch phonetically way of spelling Yet). A missed opportunity indeed. I'm curious to hear what the other song is that Ross recorded, but you are probably not at liberty to tell us that ;-).
It was written and produced by Guy Chambers. Without checking i cannot recall the title but it was slicker than "going back" though perhaps not as commercial. Diana wanted "going back" to be the single. I agree with you i was not a great version, but as you say Dusty's version was immense. We did want Guy Chambers to produce a whole album on Diana but he wasn't a big enough name Stateside. Despite this talks continued about him working on an album for the European market after Motown dropped her but after the Divas 2000 debacle it all came to nothing. It is a pity because the man was capable of writing some top notch pop songs.

[daviddh]

what I find interesting is that BG allowed her to be off the charts for such a long period, at least here in the states. when Elvis went in to the army the Col had EP record dozens of songs that would be released over a period of 2 years so that it would appear he was still here, and not have a out of sight out of mind kind of situation. it seems every year or two there is a new young flavor to take over. I think Diana lost some ground in the 70s when she was off the charts in 1972, 1974,1975 and half of 1977 as Baby Its Me didn't come out until late 77.
but she soon found her way back with the BOSS, a great album.

[daviddh]

with Love and Life, was it the plan to pick only one song??? couldn't more newer songs have been used? personally , even though I like the collection , I would have preferred more of her solo work

[daviddh]

btw.t really surprised me Chain Reaction wasn't a big hit here but it seems it sold very respectable sales thru out UK and has become one of her all time biggest hits. it seems the single has sold close to one million in over all sales and Eatin Alive lp 3 million

[Bluebrock]

btw.t really surprised me Chain Reaction wasn't a big hit here but it seems it sold very respectable sales thru out UK and has become one of her all time biggest hits. it seems the single has sold close to one million in over all sales and Eatin Alive lp 3 million
Yes both the single and album became amongst her most successful in the UK. Eaten Alive was a very good album in my opinion and could have done even better with a better choice of singles. Chain Reaction hit the UK top 20 again in the 90's and remains a staple on UKradio.

[Bluebrock]

with Love and Life, was it the plan to pick only one song??? couldn't more newer songs have been used? personally , even though I like the collection , I would have preferred more of her solo work
Diana compiled most of this album. I wanted a 3 cd set with the 3rd cd containing her duets and including a few newly recorded duets with artists such as Ronan Keating, Boy George and even Mariah Carey. The idea never got off the ground and we were condensed into a 2 cd set. I agree more solo stuff should have been included. As regards other new songs it was felt that if we included more new songs we would have had even less room for the classics. As it was several crucial hits were omitted due to time constraints. At the time we still hoped she would record a whole new album.

[florence]

Yes both the single and album became amongst her most successful in the UK. Eaten Alive was a very good album in my opinion and could have done even better with a better choice of singles. Chain Reaction hit the UK top 20 again in the 90's and remains a staple on UKradio.

The problem was that because of the Michael Jackson connection there was never any question that the title track would be the lead single and for me anyway it was awful. It more or less killed the albums chances off in the US and probably the other singles.

Chain Reaction was a classic , fortunately strong enough to break on it's own through the clubs and discos and music channels for RCA didn't do much to promote it.

In retrospect Experience was the wrong choice of follow-up, it should have been Crime Of Passion but that's hindsight and I have to hold my hand up and admit that at the time I thought it would be quite a big hit.

I don't know what the idea was but yes, all 10 tracks on the Diana and Marvin album were released on five singles. I must admit I didn't see the success of You Are Everything coming.

I'd have to respectfully disagree about Your House. When Gallup took over the chart franchise in 1983 they supplied a top 200 to the industry but the OCC appear to have now ratified the top 100 as official and all records appearing on it are detailed in an artist's chart history. So singles like Upfront, Shockwavesetc are included for Diana but no This House

[florence]

btw.t really surprised me Chain Reaction wasn't a big hit here but it seems it sold very respectable sales thru out UK and has become one of her all time biggest hits. it seems the single has sold close to one million in over all sales and Eatin Alive lp 3 million

I would say the single is well over the 1m.

It continued to sell steadily in the UK after 1986, even charting again in 1993 as Bluerock has said with another 40k sold and has been Diana's top seller on Downloads entering the iTunes chart on a number of occasions even reaching the top 200.

It has now just about passed the 800k mark in the UK and was the biggest selling record of 1986 in Australia being ony one of 3 records certified Platinum that year for sales in excess of 100k.

It was a quite a big hit in Germany which was a huge maeket and did well in many other territories - apparently it was even #1 in Venezuela!

So it will be well over the 1m - such a pity the US never took to it.

Even now it's an instant dance floor filler in the UK.

[Bluebrock]

The problem was that because of the Michael Jackson connection there was never any question that the title track would be the lead single and for me anyway it was awful. It more or less killed the albums chances off in the US and probably the other singles.

Chain Reaction was a classic , fortunately strong enough to break on it's own through the clubs and discos and music channels for RCA didn't do much to promote it.

In retrospect Experience was the wrong choice of follow-up, it should have been Crime Of Passion but that's hindsight and I have to hold my hand up and admit that at the time I thought it would be quite a big hit.

I don't know what the idea was but yes, all 10 tracks on the Diana and Marvin album were released on five singles. I must admit I didn't see the success of You Are Everything coming.

I'd have to respectfully disagree about Your House. When Gallup took over the chart franchise in 1983 they supplied a top 200 to the industry but the OCC appear to have now ratified the top 100 as official and all records appearing on it are detailed in an artist's chart history. So singles like Upfront, Shockwavesetc are included for Diana but no This House
Thank you for pointing out my mistake with "this house" I thought it grazed the bottom end of the chart but you obviously know your stuff Florence and am happy to concede that one to you.
I totally agree about "crimes of passion". It would have gone top 10 as the follow up to "chain reaction" which should have been the 1st single. I would have made that album a monster hit!
Diana will be very pleased she still has such loyal fans such as yourself. If you require any further information please feel free to ask.

[daviddh]

been listening to every day Is a New Day cd, and love it. still cant believe NOT OVER YOU YET wasn't released here in usa. the remix is a killer and still sounds good to me. should have been huge here.

[daviddh]

I also thought CRIMES OF PASSION from EA would have been the best single to follow up Chain Reaction. good album. wonder if there were any out takes. suppose we'll never know.I did hear Barry Gibb say he had written Island in the Stream for Diana . not sure if she recorded it or not.
I still would have preferred more new songs on Love and Life. less Supremes hits . anyway , it seem to be the thing with Voice Of Love, Gift Of Love. we get a new collection every year with one new song. of course, I would give anything for a new song now. I doubt we'll see Diana release anything new now.

[Bluebrock]

I also thought CRIMES OF PASSION from EA would have been the best single to follow up Chain Reaction. good album. wonder if there were any out takes. suppose we'll never know.I did hear Barry Gibb say he had written Island in the Stream for Diana . not sure if she recorded it or not.
I still would have preferred more new songs on Love and Life. less Supremes hits . anyway , it seem to be the thing with Voice Of Love, Gift Of Love. we get a new collection every year with one new song. of course, I would give anything for a new song now. I doubt we'll see Diana release anything new now.
There are a couple of outakes from the "eaten alive" sessions but i am not 100% certain they are completed. "chain reaction" was the final song to be recorded during the sessions believe it or not, and you are quite correct that Barry Gibb wrote "islands in the stream" as a proposed duet for him and Diana. Diana had been impressed with his work with Streisand and Dionne and wanted to work with him on an album in 1983 but their respective schedules did not allow it. Barry was a huge fan of Diana and remains so but they did not have the best working relationship. Despite this Diana wanted to work with him again whilst at Motown, and it almost happened.

[Ollie9]

:p
There are a couple of outakes from the "eaten alive" sessions but i am not 100% certain they are completed. "chain reaction" was the final song to be recorded during the sessions believe it or not, and you are quite correct that Barry Gibb wrote "islands in the stream" as a proposed duet for him and Diana. Diana had been impressed with his work with Streisand and Dionne and wanted to work with him on an album in 1983 but their respective schedules did not allow it. Barry was a huge fan of Diana and remains so but they did not have the best working relationship. Despite this Diana wanted to work with him again whilst at Motown, and it almost happened.

Ohhhh what might have been.
Like Diana, i do enjoy songs of enpowerment such as "The Boss" And" Free [[Im Gone"). With EA, lyrics to songs such as "I'm watching you tonight and it's making me cry and "Why is it i can only cry and you can say goodbye" I'm begging down on my knees", i feel the album might benefit from just a couple of additional fun songs to lighten the mood.
I guess thats why i can never listen to "All The Befores". ...You Don't need him girl lol.

[Bluebrock]

:p

Ohhhh what might have been.
Like Diana, i do enjoy songs of enpowerment such as "The Boss" And" Free [[Im Gone"). With EA, lyrics to songs such as "I'm watching you tonight and it's making me cry and "Why is it i can only cry and you can say goodbye" I'm begging down on my knees", i feel the album might benefit from just a couple of additional fun songs to lighten the mood.
I guess thats why i can never listen to "All The Befores". ...You Don't need him girl lol.
It was a dark album. Barry was going through a tough period and his lyrics kind of gave some insight into the problems he was facing at the time.

[daviddh]

I like most of the Eatin Alive album but honeslty I could hear Diana singing YOURS...a song from the Dionne album. I liked her MORE AND MORE vocal and for the most part the songs were good, I was not a fan of O Teacher .I would replace that and maybe one more. I had heard Barry state he wanted to work with Diana again. I am sorry it didn't happen , even if for only a few tracks. would have been nice if Islands in the Stream would have been a huge hit for Diana.

[daviddh]

on Ross 78, Diana did some tracks with Greg Wright, YOU Were The One, Never Say I Don't Love You. in my opinion, the two best tracks. anyone know if she did any other songs with Greg Wright. I wish the entire album was produced by him

[Bluebrock]

I like most of the Eatin Alive album but honeslty I could hear Diana singing YOURS...a song from the Dionne album. I liked her MORE AND MORE vocal and for the most part the songs were good, I was not a fan of O Teacher .I would replace that and maybe one more. I had heard Barry state he wanted to work with Diana again. I am sorry it didn't happen , even if for only a few tracks. would have been nice if Islands in the Stream would have been a huge hit for Diana.
I think she lived to regret turning down "islands in the stream". Without wishing to speak ill of the dead it was Maurice Gibb who clashed with Diana rather than Barry, and Maurice wasn't even in the studio that often. I would have loved to have seen them do another album together too.

[Bluebrock]

on Ross 78, Diana did some tracks with Greg Wright, YOU Were The One, Never Say I Don't Love You. in my opinion, the two best tracks. anyone know if she did any other songs with Greg Wright. I wish the entire album was produced by him
Not sure if they are Greg Wright productions but i do know that a handful of unreleased songs were discovered in the vault last year dating back to the mid/late 70's. We will get to hear them on the expanded Ross78 but until then we must be patient.

[lakedistrictlad1]

Not sure if they are Greg Wright productions but i do know that a handful of unreleased songs were discovered in the vault last year dating back to the mid/late 70's. We will get to hear them on the expanded Ross78 but until then we must be patient.

....which will be issued on CD. Hopefully.

[Bluebrock]

....which will be issued on CD. Hopefully.
Just download i fear but we have ways of getting it on physical cd.

[daviddh]

I am not holding my breath, I suppose I have gotten more patient in my older years. but it is a but irritaiting that NO news/ info is coming such as "coming summer2016" or something similar. I find it disrespectful to the loyal fans. so I kind of gave up hope..... so to speak.i know it may come one day,....one year.....hopefully b4 I have to use a hearing aid to listen to it

[daviddh]

what do you guys think her best RCA album was. I was originally thinking Eaten Alive, but REd HOT and Blue seems solid. I think had it been released in 83 or so it would have done well, but it was dated by 1989.
after that, The Force, Take Me Higher, Everyday is...also seem to be really good albums

[jobeterob]

Eaten Alive and RHRnB and Swept Away

Why Do Fools Fall In Love was also good.

Not Silk Electric and Ross

[Ollie9]

[QUOTE=daviddh;332414]what do you guys think her best RCA album was. I was originally thinking Eaten Alive, but REd HOT and Blue seems solid. I think had it been released in 83 or so it would have done well, but it was dated by 1989.
after that, The Force, Take Me Higher, Everyday is...also seem to be really good albums[/QUOTE

I do agree David. I think RHRAB is a solid album but to me it sounded a tad dated when released in 87. It would have made a nice follow up to " Why Do Fools" in 82. Here is my very micro review of Diana's RCA albums .... and a few Motown.

1. Why Do Fools. Terrible production, but a few good songs.

2. Silk Electric. Other then Muscles, bloody awful.

3. ross. Sounds better today, though i only like the Katz produced songs. Girls almost destroys the whole vibe of the album.

4. Swept Away. Take off " Rescue Me" & "Children". Add "Fight For It" and you have a good album.

5. Eaten Alive. An ok effort, but needed a killer ballad.

6. Red Hot. A solid album, but sounded dated for the time.

Workin Overtime. I really like it's positive energy, but the key should have been lowered on at least three songs.

7. Force Behind The Power. An excellent pop album that holds up well.

8. A Vey Special Season. One of the best christmas albums ever, and not just because it's Diana.

9. Take Me Higher. At last a return to a more r & b sound. A very solid album that still sounds fresh today.

10. Everyday Is A New Day. Sounds even better today than when it was first released. A quality, adult album that should have put her back on top. One that got away.

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=daviddh;332414]what do you guys think her best RCA album was. I was originally thinking Eaten Alive, but REd HOT and Blue seems solid. I think had it been released in 83 or so it would have done well, but it was dated by 1989.
after that, The Force, Take Me Higher, Everyday is...also seem to be really good albums[/QUOTE

I do agree David, i think RHRAB is a solid album, but to me it sounded a tad dated when released in 87. It would have made a nice follow up to " Why Do Fools" in 82. Heres my very micro review of Diana's RCA albums .... and a few Motown.
1. Why Do Fools - Terrible production, but a few good songs.
2. Silk Electric - Other then Muscles, bloody awful.
3. ross. Sounds better today. I only like the Katz producd songs. Girls almost destroys the whole vibe of the album.
4. Swept Away. Take off " Rescue Me" and "Children" and you have a good album.
Eaten Alive. An ok effort, but needed a killer ballad.
5.Red Hot - A solid album, but sounded dated for the time.
6. Workin Overtime - I really like it's positive energy, but the key should have been lowered on at least three songs.
5. A Vey Special Season. One of the best christmas albums ever, and not just because it's Diana
6. Take Me Higher - At last a return to a more r & b sound. A very solid album that still sounds fresh today.
7. Everyday Is A New Day - Sounds even better today than when it was released. A quality, adult album that should have put her back on top. One that got away.
What about "force behind the power"? You don't mention that great album. I know i am biased but it is my favourite, not necessarily for the musical content but for the fact that it cemented my relationship with Diana and i got to choose the singles.
I disagree with you about "working overtime" Dreadful album in my opinion but you are entitled to your opinion. Silk Electric was another turkey as you say except for "muscles". Didn't care for Ross83 with a couple of exceptions, but for the most part i agree with your opinions.
I also love the Christmas album. She had so much fun recording that. It is one holiday cd that i dig out religiously every year and for me it is what Christmas is all about.
Great post Ollie.

[Ollie9]

[QUOTE=Ollie9;332489]
What about "force behind the power"? You don't mention that great album. I know i am biased but it is my favourite, not necessarily for the musical content but for the fact that it cemented my relationship with Diana and i got to choose the singles.
I disagree with you about "working overtime" Dreadful album in my opinion but you are entitled to your opinion. Silk Electric was another turkey as you say except for "muscles". Didn't care for Ross83 with a couple of exceptions, but for the most part i agree with your opinions.
I also love the Christmas album. She had so much fun recording that. It is one holiday cd that i dig out religiously every year and for me it is what Christmas is all about.
Great post Ollie.

I just did a re-edit job to include "Force" Bluebrock. I seem to stand alone slighty as regards WW, but it is one i still play today. I think "This House" and "Stand Together" are two of Diana's very best ballads. "Say We Can" picks me up whenever i have self doubt.
Great to hear Diana had fun recording the christmas album. It strikes just the right balance between traditional and fun.

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=Bluebrock;332494]

I just did a re-edit job to include "Force" Bluebrock. I seem to stand alone slighty as regards WW, but it is one i still play today. I think "This House" and "Stand Together" are two of Diana's very best ballads. "Say We Can" picks me up whenever i have self doubt.
Great to hear Diana had fun recording the christmas album. It strikes just the right balance between traditional and fun.
Good work with "fbtp"
I am pleased that you enjoy "wo". Your opinion of it is every bit as valid as mine. No-one is right and no-one is wrong.
As regards the Christmas album it was something she wanted to do for years and i was lucky enough to be at some of the sessions. Diana recorded 18 songs for the project and i would love an expanded version some day.

[Ollie9]

Meant to type "WO" Just can it get it on today.....................

[Ollie9]

Do you remember what other songs Diana recorded at the sessions.
I would have left off "Ave Maria". Thats the only one that does not work for me. Some of her vocal performances on this wonderful album were a revelation to me at the time

[Bluebrock]

Do you remember what other songs Diana recorded at the sessions.
I would have left off "Ave Maria". Thats the only one that does not work for me. Some of her vocal performances on this wonderful album were a revelation to me at the time
From what i recall i think she also cut "santa baby" "rudolph the rednosed reindeer" "what child is this" "joy to the world" and "it came upon a midnight clear". The original album contains 14 songs if memory serves, so on 2nd thoughts she must have cut 19 tracks.

[Ollie9]

From what i recall i think she also cut "santa baby" "rudolph the rednosed reindeer" "what child is this" "joy to the world" and "it came upon a midnight clear". The original album contains 14 songs if memory serves, so on 2nd thoughts she must have cut 19 tracks.

"Santa Baby" would have been a perfect match for Diana's breathy vocals. Hard to understand how "Ave Maria" was left on. He vocal is very wobbly on it, and her pronunciation to literal.
It really does deserve the expanded treatment as apart from that one song it really works. This album and another by an artist named Kem are the only two christmas albums i listen to.

[florence]

Although EMI were very savvy in their marketing if Diana in the UK I think they slightly lost the plot in 1974.

All Of My Life was an inspired choice of single and although it almost got lost in the Christmas avalanche in 1973 it managed to get a toehold in the chart at the beginning of 1974 and went top 10.

The big winner was the Touch Me album which had dropped of the chart but in the wake of Life re-entered and went all the way back to the top 10.

I never understood though why they kept releasing singles from the Diana/Marvin album.

My Mistake as the fourth single barely troubled the charts so how did they expect a fifth single Don't Knock My Love to do anything especially when the album had been massive.

I'd have had My Mistake as the third single and follow-up to Everything.

I suppose they wanted to go with something from the current album when Last Time came around and I know a lot of fans rated Love Me although to me it was somewhat anaemic. The fact that it managed to make the top 40 at all was a tribute to Diana's popularity at all but really there was a wealth of great ballads on previous albums which had UK hit single written all over them.

There was definitely at least one more singleobn Touch namely We Need You which would have been a much better choice.

As far as I'm concerned Diana's best album was easily The Force Behind The Power [[followed by Swept Away). It was jam packed with great pop songs.

When you Tell Me That You Love Me was divine and thoroughly deserved it's great UK success.

It was touted as a possible Christmas #1 in 1991. Was this a genuine belief, Bluerock or just part of the marketing PR?

In the 70s this would have soared easily into the top 10 but with Diana not having had a really big hit in the UK for several years I just didn't know how it would fare.

I have to congratulate you and your team for the sperb marketing job you did on it. I remember a specially designed little box with copies of the single in it whic appeared on the counter of my local record store. It scooped in a load of impromptu sales.

The record must have sold heavily at the end of the week when it was released because I can remember listening anxiously to the chart shows the next Sunday switching between the Network and Official rundowns, to see if it had entered the top 40. When it hadn't shown up towards the bottom of the Network chart by the time they had reached the lower 20s on Radio One I was resigned to the fact that it had missed out and was hoping that it wasn't too far outside and might enter the following week.

When it got to the top 10 and said "#10 New Entry - DIANA ROSS" I just turned to jelly!

But for the tragic death of Freddy Mercury while not 100% guaranteed When You Tell Me had a very strong chance of actually being the Christmas #1.

Someone put a rumour out which still persists today that Diana had only been beaten to the #1 Christmas week by a hair's breadth but the truth is that she was outsold by a something like a margon of 4-1 but it was still a great performance.

[Bluebrock]

"Santa Baby" would have been a perfect match for Diana's breathy vocals. Hard to understand how "Ave Maria" was left on. He vocal is very wobbly on it, and her pronunciation to literal.
It really does deserve the expanded treatment as apart from that one song it really works. This album and another by an artist named Kem are the only two christmas albums i listen to.
Diana had the final say on the tracklisting. She loved "ava maria" as do i but i think i must agree with you that her voice is not shown to best effect on this song. However Diana herself must have been satisfied with her vocals.
Going slightly off topic i am familiar with Kem. I do own one of his cd's but not the Christmas one.If it really is as good as you say i may well invest in it.

[Bluebrock]

Although EMI were very savvy in their marketing if Diana in the UK I think they slightly lost the plot in 1974.

All Of My Life was an inspired choice of single and although it almost got lost in the Christmas avalanche in 1973 it managed to get a toehold in the chart at the beginning of 1974 and went top 10.

The big winner was the Touch Me album which had dropped of the chart but in the wake of Life re-entered and went all the way back to the top 10.

I never understood though why they kept releasing singles from the Diana/Marvin album.

My Mistake as the fourth single barely troubled the charts so how did they expect a fifth single Don't Knock My Love to do anything especially when the album had been massive.

I'd have had My Mistake as the third single and follow-up to Everything.

I suppose they wanted to go with something from the current album when Last Time came around and I know a lot of fans rated Love Me although to me it was somewhat anaemic. The fact that it managed to make the top 40 at all was a tribute to Diana's popularity at all but really there was a wealth of great ballads on previous albums which had UK hit single written all over them.

There was definitely at least one more singleobn Touch namely We Need You which would have been a much better choice.

As far as I'm concerned Diana's best album was easily The Force Behind The Power [[followed by Swept Away). It was jam packed with great pop songs.

When you Tell Me That You Love Me was divine and thoroughly deserved it's great UK success.

It was touted as a possible Christmas #1 in 1991. Was this a genuine belief, Bluerock or just part of the marketing PR?

In the 70s this would have soared easily into the top 10 but with Diana not having had a really big hit in the UK for several years I just didn't know how it would fare.

I have to congratulate you and your team for the sperb marketing job you did on it. I remember a specially designed little box with copies of the single in it whic appeared on the counter of my local record store. It scooped in a load of impromptu sales.

The record must have sold heavily at the end of the week when it was released because I can remember listening anxiously to the chart shows the next Sunday switching between the Network and Official rundowns, to see if it had entered the top 40. When it hadn't shown up towards the bottom of the Network chart by the time they had reached the lower 20s on Radio One I was resigned to the fact that it had missed out and was hoping that it wasn't too far outside and might enter the following week.

When it got to the top 10 and said "#10 New Entry - DIANA ROSS" I just turned to jelly!

But for the tragic death of Freddy Mercury while not 100% guaranteed When You Tell Me had a very strong chance of actually being the Christmas #1.

Someone put a rumour out which still persists today that Diana had only been beaten to the #1 Christmas week by a hair's breadth but the truth is that she was outsold by a something like a margon of 4-1 but it was still a great performance.
It was only the tragic death of Freddie Mercury that prevented "wytmtylm" reaching no,1. In the wake of his passing "bohemian Rhapsody" was reissued and sold by the bucketload. At one point Diana was no.1 in the mid about week chart and she was really excited about this. She was based in the UK at this point and she was busy rehearsing for the Royal Variety Performance [[i shall tell you a funny story about that later). She was very gracious when she was beaten to the no.1 slot and she posted a moving tribute to Freddie Mercury whom she had met several times and they were big fans of each other.
Thank you for the compliment regarding the marketing. We knew we had a potential monster hit on our hands. Both radio 1 and radio 2 loved the song. We were given a big budget to promote it and as i said Diana herself was constantly available and a real pleasure to be around. We worked our butts off but we also had some great fun.
I agree with most of what you say about 1974. I could have picked better songs to release although "ltish" was an average album at best. Not sure why they released so many Diana/Marvin songs but i do know the album was a big seller over a long period of time in the UK so maybe releasing the singles increased the lifespan of the album.
Thank you again Florence for your interest. I am really enjoying sharing my memories and as long as there is continued interest i will carry on sharing.

[thommg]

Loving all these opinions on the various LP's.

The only RCA album I didn't care for was Silk Electric. I think Love Lies was the best song on the LP. I really liked that one, but it had a bad ending/fade out. The Ross album was one of my faves but I preferred the Katz productions. I would have replaced Girls with a better song, and maybe added one more. My two favorites would be Eaten Alive and Swept Away. Red Hot just didn't click with me, though I like the tracks. As many have said, maybe it's sound was too dated when it was released. It seemed, though, that Diana was trying to get back to a more band based sound than some of the 80s electronics on Swept Away.

Regarding her final Motown albums, I still do not like Working Overtime. I just don't care for the material, most of which I find very repetitious and meandering. I liked Force behind The Power but my money was on Take Me Higher. I love that disc. To me, that was everything Diana. We got songs that showed all aspects of her from ballad to dance.

I still wish someone could convince her to do one last album of Stevie Wonder songs. i don't want her last recording to be I Love You, which was uninspired. I would like the Stevie Wonder project to happen, Bluebrock. Could you do something about that, please???? :D

[reese]

Re the RCA years, my favorites are SWEPT AWAY and RED HOT RHYTHM AND BLUES. I think both are full of great songs, and I can play them both through without skipping a track.

WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE and ROSS also have their share of good songs. But neither album makes my personal Diana Top 10.

For some reason, EATEN ALIVE is an album that I never got into. I remember playing it when it was first released but I only gravitated to EXPERIENCE and CHAIN REACTION. When I bought the recent cd reissue of it, most of the songs were totally unfamiliar to me.

Besides EATEN ALIVE, SILK ELECTRIC is probably my least favorite, although I played it enough that I can still recall the songs, which is not the case with EATEN ALIVE. I still think it might have been interesting if FOOL FOR YOUR LOVE was released as the second single. SO CLOSE was a terrible choice, IMO.

[thommg]

Besides EATEN ALIVE, SILK ELECTRIC is probably my least favorite, although I played it enough that I can still recall the songs, which is not the case with EATEN ALIVE. I still think it might have been interesting if FOOL FOR YOUR LOVE was released as the second single. SO CLOSE was a terrible choice, IMO.

I wonder if I would like Silk Electric better if it had a better mix. The songs have waaay too much reverb and echo on them and Diana is lost in the mix far too often. I was hoping we might get that with the last release. Though it sounds better than it did, it is still not very good to my ear.

[Bluebrock]

Loving all these opinions on the various LP's.

The only RCA album I didn't care for was Silk Electric. I think Love Lies was the best song on the LP. I really liked that one, but it had a bad ending/fade out. The Ross album was one of my faves but I preferred the Katz productions. I would have replaced Girls with a better song, and maybe added one more. My two favorites would be Eaten Alive and Swept Away. Red Hot just didn't click with me, though I like the tracks. As many have said, maybe it's sound was too dated when it was released. It seemed, though, that Diana was trying to get back to a more band based sound than some of the 80s electronics on Swept Away.

Regarding her final Motown albums, I still do not like Working Overtime. I just don't care for the material, most of which I find very repetitious and meandering. I liked Force behind The Power but my money was on Take Me Higher. I love that disc. To me, that was everything Diana. We got songs that showed all aspects of her from ballad to dance.

I still wish someone could convince her to do one last album of Stevie Wonder songs. i don't want her last recording to be I Love You, which was uninspired. I would like the Stevie Wonder project to happen, Bluebrock. Could you do something about that, please???? :D
Oh how i miss i had that influence!!
For the record i do believe Diana will record one more album. I am also pretty sure she has been in the studio recording material over the past few years but for various reasons these songs haven't seen the light of day. I totally agree that "i love you" cannot be allowed to be her swansong . It all boils down to Diana. She has not been short of offers but if she turns down Nile Rodgers then you wonder if she has the heart for it anymore.
As regards the Stevie Wonder album this idea has been suggested before and it could work if planned correctly, but other artists have beaten her to it so you wonder [[no pun intended) if that boat has not already sailed.
Diana is aware her fans would love her to record a new album. She was impressed with Cher's comeback a couple of years ago, and she knows it could be successful but i don't think she would relish all the promotional stuff anymore. She does not have the energy she once had and she loves to spend time with her ever expanding family. She certainly does not need the money so it will only happen if Diana herself decides she wants it enough. A record company would insist upon her undertaking worldwide promotional duties and therin lies the problem. I cannot really add more than that.

[daviddh]

WHY DO FOOLS FALL. I remember being disappointed that this was the follow up to Diana album. it was a let down to me. but it was ok.i think Sweet Surrender was a song I liked.
Silk Electric , I liked this better for songs like WHO, Love Lies. I did read somewhere most of the songs from SE were out takes from WDFFIL .
ROSS 83.i only liked side One. and Lets Go UP. the rest was to laid back.
SWEPT AWAY. totally agree that removing WE R THe Children. Rescue ME.
Eatin Alive , was good ,some good songs but I thought it was dated by 1985. if this was released in 83 it would have been huge.
RED HOT,. solid album. except Tell Me Again. I cant believe that was even a single
WORKIN OVERTIME. hmmm disappointing but I do like Paradise, This House, Keep On Dancin.
THE FORCE. solid great album
TAKE ME HIGHER great album
EVERYDAY IS great album
VERY SPECIAL SEASON Great album. forgot about this one

one song I wish she recorded was Ribbon in The Sky. I think she sang this in central Park.great song and I always thought she could really make it a great song
I do like the idea of her doing a songbook kinda of album.I saw her in concert with Palc Damingo and a few other.sorry I forget all the names but Diana was great and she performed some classics if memory serves me correctly and I was really impressed with her vocals.
maybe an album with songs from Nile, Barry Gibb but one producer.

[florence]

It was only the tragic death of Freddie Mercury that prevented "wytmtylm" reaching no,1. In the wake of his passing "bohemian Rhapsody" was reissued and sold by the bucketload. At one point Diana was no.1 in the mid about week chart and she was really excited about this.

Are you talking about the week before Christmas week when Diana rather surprisingly ended up slipping back from #2 to #4? As far as I was aware the sales Christmas week were something like 280k for Queen and 69k for Diana.

This is not meant to be cheeky and after all what do I know about marketing? but was there any problem about the release date of Your Love. I personally always felt this was bungled.

The UK chart seems to follow patterns and go rather static the week before Christmas. When You Tell Me and If We Hold On had five weeks pre-Christmas sales whereas Your Love in 1993 was only given four. It may not have peaked higher but had it been released a week earlier it would surely have sold at least 20k more.

I have always felt that "morally" Diana was the UK#1 Christmas album that year with One Woman.

Because Christmas Day was a Saturday that year the Christmas week chart was officially called on sales to Saturday 18 December. But Diana went to #1 the next week on sales of 200k+ based up to 23rd December. As shops closed on Christmas day back then I always felt this was the true Christmas chart topper.

[sup_fan]

WOW!!! 5 pages of discussion, comments, stories and insight. and no bitching, snarking, or hate. this is what makes SoulfulDetroit Forum great

here are my thoughts on her albums from 81 onwards:

WDFFIN - i've grown to appreciate her RCA stuff more. sort of "iPod" era onward lol. i never played the lps much and rarely included them on mixed tapes and all back in the day. but now i do play them quite a bit. i actually like most of this lp. title track is fun, as is Never Too Late - this one sounds very early 80s to me lol. Mirror is great too although getting a bit carried away with the reverb. Two Can make is is the weakest track IMO. Work That Body is campy fun.

Silk - Fool For Your Love is not great. valiant attempt but not Diana. Turn Me Over i thought was fun. obviously not a serious track but a cute concept. Who is a good track. Love Lies too. I Am Me is ok. i do think the echo and reverb is again getting too heavy here

Ross - i think the problem here is it's a bit too disjointed. with Silk you had Hard Rock, ballad, light disco, raegae, etc. So it comes across as a bit of mix set of styles. Here though it seems out of sync. Pieces of Ice is odd. very odd. That's How You Start Over is a solid track but i think her vocals are a bit lackluster. she never really gets going. I think Girls is another 80s-campy fun song. sure it's not a mega hit or vocally dynamic. but it's fun and could have been great in a video. You Do It and Love and Loneliness are pretty good too. but like That's How, they need stronger more exciting vocals

Swept - overall solid production. i think the mixing and producing of her vocals here is much better. clean, not too much echo. but i think there are too many "throw away" tracks. Rescue Me, We are the children, Forever - i think 1 of those should have been kept and the others cut. needed more original material

Eaten - i'm not a fan of this set. Diana's voice has a nasality to it that IMO does NOT lead itself well to the Gibb falsetto sound. the guys have their own nasality to their tones and so it's too much. and i think the production of her vocals here is terrible too. too much echo, reverb, poor mixing. i do NOT like her breathy squeeky performance on More.

Red Hot - one of her most disjointed albums. the "throwback" to oldies tracks was fine as 1 song on her debut but i think the idea of a full album of this was not the right idea in her career at this time. a tv special is one thing. but she needed strong material and up to date content to keep her relevant in the record buying world.

Workin - i've almost never listened to this until just this past year. actually i've come to appreciate it a bit more. title track is a dud. but Bottom Line is great. Say We Can, Paradise, Going Through the Motions are all pretty good too.

Force Behind - not a fan of the title track. I'm not a huge Stevie fan so frankly i'm glad she never did a whole lp with him. but other tracks on here are much stronger. i do think the album is too heavy with ballads. Heart is good and so is When You tell Me. Heavy Weather could have been better - make it a bit more soul exciting. love battlefield

Box Set - Your Love is one i like a lot. It's A Wonderful Life sounds like Battlefield and Chain Reaction had a Love Child lolol. But she needed a more solid and contemporary dance song. Let's Make is ok but a bit too Kenny G

Take Me Higher - title track is a good track but not a fan of the lyrics. If You're Not Gonna - great song. lots of great ballads on here but gets a bit ballad heavy. I Thought We Were Still is gorgeous. as is Gone and the others. but needed more up tempo. I Will Survive was great but a year or two too late. the original had already had a resurgence and there was a popular techno/dance version released of Gloria Gaynor. so by the time Diana's came around, it wasn't very new or exciting

Everyday - He Lives In You :[[ don't like these "moral" songs. again overall i like the album and the dance remixes of some of the tracks really were great. but those should have been the album version. like Cher's Believe. that wasn't some slow groove ballad. it was a hot dance track on the album and in remixes. that should have been the approach to Not Over You Yet

I Love You - as if they recorded her are a karaoke bar singing after too many sakes

Blue - stunning. i agree with a writer that said her jazz work in the early 70s was every bit as courageous, exciting and artistically important as anything Marvin or Stevie were doing

[sup_fan]

broke this into a separate thread. i've done a bunch of my own playlists in iTunes to recreate various Sup and Diana albums that could have been a stronger concept. Like the Reflections, Love Child, Promises Kept or Ross 78 sets.

Ross 78 - making this more of a soft pop, ballad set
Side 1
Together
Share Some Love
Harmony
Never say I Don't Love You
Old Funky Rolls

Side 2
Come Together [[remixed version)
Sorry Doesn't Make It
Where Did We Go wrong
We're always saying goodbye
To Love Again

Feelin' Fun - her disco album for 78
Lovin' Livin' Givin'
What You Gave Me
You Build Me Up
You Were The One

Side 2
For Once In My Life
We Can Never Light
Fire Don't Burn
Sweet Summertime Lovin