Someday We'll Be Together Are These Voice Cindy and Mary?

[milven]

I know that the recorded version of SOMEDAY is a Diana Ross solo with session singers. But it remains my favorite Supremes song.

In this TV appearance, is this really Cindy and Mary singing with Diana. You guys are terrific with identifying voices. Is this the three Supremes singing here? It sounds different from the recorded version


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADOfcMrOUEk

[milven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEOMB6jyEE

[arr&bee]

Sounds like lipsinging to me.

[captainjames]

Sorry its not Mary and Cindy to my ears.

[jillfoster]

In the first video, it's both. Diana is singing a live lead over the Motown backing track with the record's backgrounds on them. You can hear Mary doing the adlibs toward the end of the song because she is close enough to be picked up on Diana's microphone. The second video is just a lip synch.

[luke]

So only Diana has a live mic?If Mary is singling loudly wouldn't more than just her ad Libs be picked up? I'm confused -Diana sounds just like she's singing along to the record too.

[Methuselah2]

I'm not quite sure what's what here but I always got a kick out of those 'Las Vegas showgirl/choir robes' they've got on.

[marv2]

In the first video, it's both. Diana is singing a live lead over the Motown backing track with the record's backgrounds on them. You can hear Mary doing the adlibs toward the end of the song because she is close enough to be picked up on Diana's microphone. The second video is just a lip synch.


Yes in the first video from the Ed Sullivan Show it is Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong singing along with the recorded backing track. Boy, I remember watching this that night on television with my entire family. It seemed like such a big deal especially when my cousin Debbie started crying. LOL!

[marv2]

In the first video, it's both. Diana is singing a live lead over the Motown backing track with the record's backgrounds on them. You can hear Mary doing the adlibs toward the end of the song because she is close enough to be picked up on Diana's microphone. The second video is just a lip synch.

They removed Johnny Bristol's vocals from the backing track that Mary and Cindy are singing along with.

[jobeterob]

Well until you guys and Randy came around, I was happy enough to think Johnny Bristol was Mary!

They should have all left it that way. Andy said years ago, don't ask any questions; you won't like the answers.

[jobeterob]

Tonight was the end of the road wasn't it!

[TheMotownManiac]

Mary & Cindy are not singing at all on either one. They also are not singing along with either one. As JillFoster said, Mary is inserting the last few missing Johnny Bristol ad libs that gets picked up on Diana's mic. I wonder if that was planned or if Mary just did it - the look on Diana's face might suggest she wasn't expecting it. There are no other voices picked up on Diana's mic, plus, there'd be no reason to add voices to a track that was already #1 and over a million sold. You can see proof of it by noticing the lipping mistakes Mary makes and there is no change in the sound.

[reese]

When I watch the Sullivan clip, when Mary starts adlibbing, there are some small smiles from Diana that make me think she likes it. I don't think it was a surprise. Mary does the same on the FAREWELL album, and later on the Smokey special.

[detmotownguy]

I hear Mary at abt 2:00 on the first clip.

[marv2]

Mary & Cindy are not singing at all on either one. They also are not singing along with either one. As JillFoster said, Mary is inserting the last few missing Johnny Bristol ad libs that gets picked up on Diana's mic. I wonder if that was planned or if Mary just did it - the look on Diana's face might suggest she wasn't expecting it. There are no other voices picked up on Diana's mic, plus, there'd be no reason to add voices to a track that was already #1 and over a million sold. You can see proof of it by noticing the lipping mistakes Mary makes and there is no change in the sound.

Mary said they are singing along with the recorded backing track.

[marv2]

Instrumental track they are singing along with on the Ed Sullivan Show does not sound as lush as the record.

[marybrewster]

I know that the recorded version of SOMEDAY is a Diana Ross solo with session singers. But it remains my favorite Supremes song.

In this TV appearance, is this really Cindy and Mary singing with Diana. You guys are terrific with identifying voices. Is this the three Supremes singing here? It sounds different from the recorded version


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADOfcMrOUEk

My ears say it's Diana singing over a recorded Andantes track, with additional adlibs [["Say it!") by Mary.

[sansradio]

I'm not quite sure what's what here but I always got a kick out of those 'Las Vegas showgirl/choir robes' they've got on.

LOL!!! Very Clara Ward Singers!

[marv2]

My ears say it's Diana singing over a recorded Andantes track, with additional adlibs [["Say it!") by Mary.

MaryB listen closely at 1:57

[captainjames]

Nope, I would believe more so that Motown just added the added vocals by Mary and Diana to make it sound more real. This was one of the final exists on TV and there could be no mistakes. I agree with Rob I was better off believing it was Mary and Cindy instead of the Andantes and Johnny Bristol. I remember the first time I had to announce that it was not all the girls on the final record.

[sansradio]

I've actually read that The Waters family are on backgrounds on this track as well.

[marybrewster]

I've actually read that The Waters family are on backgrounds on this track as well.

Thank you sansradio; I said Andantes, but I meant Julia and Maxine Waters.

[marv2]

Thank you sansradio; I said Andantes, but I meant Julia and Maxine Waters.

Along with Merry Clayton in the background.

[luke]

Yea I always heard it was the Waters.

[marv2]

Nope, I would believe more so that Motown just added the added vocals by Mary and Diana to make it sound more real. This was one of the final exists on TV and there could be no mistakes. I agree with Rob I was better off believing it was Mary and Cindy instead of the Andantes and Johnny Bristol. I remember the first time I had to announce that it was not all the girls on the final record.

The best part of all of this is that the first and ONLY way you,
I or anyone knew about who was on the recording of "Someday We'll Be Together" is when Mary Wilson wrote about it in her bestseller "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme".

She used this situation [[of Motown using session singers on this record and "Love Child") in her 1977 lawsuit. Prior to Mary's book, no one in the general public knew about it for a fact. This proves that thousands, millions have read Mary's book! Wow.

[marv2]

Yea I always heard it was the Waters.

Luke, that's right. It was Maxine and Julia Waters along with Merry Clayton. Johnny Bristol in a live interview in the early 00s when asked about it, at first he could not remember and said he thought they'd used Mary and Cindy on backing vocals. When corrected, he could not remember why they did that other than the girls must have been out of town. That is what Cindy Birdsong had said. So this other story about it was intended to be Diane's first solo recording still could have been true. It would have just been released with Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong in the mix.

[franjoy56]

Nope, I would believe more so that Motown just added the added vocals by Mary and Diana to make it sound more real. This was one of the final exists on TV and there could be no mistakes. I agree with Rob I was better off believing it was Mary and Cindy instead of the Andantes and Johnny Bristol. I remember the first time I had to announce that it was not all the girls on the final record. I hear Mary at 1:40 as well as 2:00 thru 2:12. Its a supreme affair to my ears along with the backing of Maxine Waters and Julia Tillman.

[TheMotownManiac]

I can hear Mary on two occasions but I strongly suspect she is singing along with the track just because she wants to, not as a planned thing, because mostly she cannot be heard. What grouses me is that had Flo been there still, she and Mary could have done it live with Diana and it would have been great. Cindy just didn't have the power needed for this bg but Mary sure did.


Mary said they are singing along with the recorded backing track.

[milven]

She used this situation [[of Motown using session singers on this record and "Love Child") in her 1977 lawsuit. Prior to Mary's book, no one in the general public knew about it for a fact. This proves that thousands, millions have read Mary's book! Wow.

That fact doesn't really prove that thousands or millions have read Mary's book. It could very well be that only one person read it, put the fact on the internet and millions of people saw it and repeated it. Just making a point..

But of course millions of people did buy and read her book and no one can take away that fact.

[milven]

Mary said they are singing along with the recorded backing track.

I think I read that a lot of acts pre-recorded their voices for Sullivan appearances. So I guess my question is are Mary and Cindy singing along and/or lip syncing to their own pre-recorded voices, or are they singing along and adding their voices to other peoples voices

[captainjames]

As I mentioned earlier as important as this gig was to Motown I am sure the girls are singing to a pre-recording. There was no room for any mistakes.

[reese]

As I mentioned earlier as important as this gig was to Motown I am sure the girls are singing to a pre-recording. There was no room for any mistakes.

This particular episode wasn't live, or at least the Supremes' sequence wasn't. Right before SOMEDAY, the girls performed a hits medley during which Diana's mike started as cone-shaped, became flat-topped, and then became cone-shaped again. It could not have happened so smoothly in a live show.

[milven]

Here is the full clip and I see the miracle microphone change that you refer to. In this clip, it is definitely Mary and Cindy singing, but again, they must have pre-recorded their voices because they are holding no mikes and when they are not in close-up , there are no boom mikes above them and yet they still can be heard My thoughts are that they pre-recorded SOMEDAY in the same way and that Mary and Cindy are lip syncing to their own voices and that performance actually has three Supreme voices on it.

As for the mike change, I saw the performance on the night it aired, but was caught up in the finality of their appearance. I did not notice any mike change. My thoughts are that there was none on the night that it was telecast.

There were always two performances of most live variety shows, the dress rehearsal and the live performance. This performance is very clear and must come from one of the DVDs put out by Sofa Entertainment. They may have had access to both performances and edited it like this. After you pointed it out, I could notice the edit

Carol Burnet also did two performances of her shows. But neither of them was broadcast live as was Sullivan's. Her telecast shows were combined edits of both performances. I don't think Sullivan's were.

Amazing that I have seen this clip so many times and never saw the mike switch and now it seems so obvious.

Thanks for pointing it out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=how5kE8OGFM

[bradsupremes]

Hits Medley - The track along with Mary & Cindy's vocals were pre-recorded. Most likely done before the show in the Ed Sullivan Theatre or at a local studio. Diana sang live to the pre-recorded track for broadcast.

"Someday We'll Be Together" - They used the single, but removed Diana's vocal so she could sing live to it [[ex. "Back In My Arms Again" on Hullabaloo). Mary does Johnny's ad-libs live and Diana's microphone picks it up. Neither Mary or Cindy are singing live nor were their vocals pre-recorded and played with the single. The backgrounds are exactly what we hear on the single.

[marv2]

I hear Mary at 1:40 as well as 2:00 thru 2:12. Its a supreme affair to my ears along with the backing of Maxine Waters and Julia Tillman.

So do I. Mary said that they sang live along with the pre-recorded track.

[marv2]

That fact doesn't really prove that thousands or millions have read Mary's book. It could very well be that only one person read it, put the fact on the internet and millions of people saw it and repeated it. Just making a point..

But of course millions of people did buy and read her book and no one can take away that fact.

Well the sales figures for the hardback and paperback versions are in the millions. This does not include people that check it out to read from their local libraries. Up until the release of "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme" was published, no one in the general public knew who was on the backing vocals for "Someday We'll Be Together". I think I was even surprised to read that. This fall will make 30 years from when I bought and read the book.

[marv2]

The fact that they are not holding mics means little in terms of whether they are singing live and can be heard. I've been in that theater , the Ed Sullivan Theater on Broadway where they performed this number. What you cannot see is this massive amount of cables and various "boom mics" overhead and out of camera shot. That stage is not very large at all. How they gave the illusion that it had depth when Diane is walking toward the camera is beyond me as I am not in that business. With the Supremes, having to do the bulk of the choreography, it would have been a mess trying to make sure mic cords did not get tangled or stepped on.

[marv2]

Milven, there are boom mics above them you just cannot see them in the picture. The folks in the audience certainly can see them. You ever watched Late Night with David Letterman? Did you know that when he is sitting down at his desk, there are 1-2 guys crouched down near the floor in front of the desk with special mics, cameras and monitors, but you never can see any of this on your television. I was amazed.

[Roberta75]

That fact doesn't really prove that thousands or millions have read Mary's book. It could very well be that only one person read it, put the fact on the internet and millions of people saw it and repeated it. Just making a point..

But of course millions of people did buy and read her book and no one can take away that fact.

According to Marys booking people the book sold 250,000 in hardbacks. Dont know how many paperback it sold but it wasnt millions but it was the most successful rockand roll autobiography of all time.

http://mpitalentagency.com/artist/mary-wilson-of-the-supremes/

http://delafont.com/music_acts/Supremes.htm

[marv2]

According to Marys booking people the book sold 250,000 in hardbacks. Dont know how many paperback it sold but it wasnt millions but it was the most successful rockand roll autobiography of all time.

http://mpitalentagency.com/artist/mary-wilson-of-the-supremes/

http://delafont.com/music_acts/Supremes.htm

That information is old as dirt. That was the figure published in the first few weeks after it's release and it was propelled up to the number one spot on the New York Times Bestseller list. By the beginning of 1987 it was going into it's second printing hardback and 1.5 million paperbacks were already for shipping. Those sold out and somewhere along the way before the 2000 re-release they change the cover of the paperback. That book sold into millions over time. It did not stop at the original 250,000 hardback copies St. Martin's Press had in it's first printing. You're so funny sometimes Roberta. LOL!

[Roberta75]

That information is old as dirt. That was the figure published in the first few weeks after it's release and it was propelled up to the number one spot on the New York Times Bestseller list. By the beginning of 1987 it was going into it's second printing hardback and 1.5 million paperbacks were already for shipping. Those sold out and somewhere along the way before the 2000 re-release they change the cover of the paperback. That book sold into millions over time. It did not stop at the original 250,000 hardback copies St. Martin's Press had in it's first printing. You're so funny sometimes Roberta. LOL!

Thank you for correcting me. I dont know why id ever think that you'd exagerate anything. Please forgive me. You should contact her agents dear and tell they theyve got to update the information.

Have a safe and blessed weekend.

Roberta

[marv2]

Thank you for correcting me. I dont know why id ever think that you'd exagerate anything. Please forgive me. You should contact her agents dear and tell they theyve got to update the information.

Have a safe and blessed weekend.

Roberta


I don't even think those guys are Mary's agent's anymore. Those are ads that are probably at least 10 years old by now. I am sure you noticed those old publicity shots used on their website. One is even from 1999 showing Mary with Iris Parker and Karen Newman. She hasn't performed with those ladies since the late 90's and Karen's case since 2003.

[Roberta75]

I don't even think those guys are Mary's agent's anymore. Those are ads that are probably at least 10 years old by now. I am sure you noticed those old publicity shots used on their website. One is even from 1999 showing Mary with Iris Parker and Karen Newman. She hasn't performed with those ladies since the late 90's and Karen's case since 2003.

Well according to Marys website shes still with MPI. Given your close relationship with mary i still think you should contact them and ask them to correct the Dreamgirl 250,000 sales. I know your always real concerned about truth.

http://mpitalentagency.com/artist/mary-wilson-of-the-supremes/

http://www.marywilson.com/#!contact/c24vq

[marv2]

Well according to Marys website shes still with MPI. Given your close relationship with mary i still think you should contact them and ask them to correct the Dreamgirl 250,000 sales. I know your always real concerned about truth.

http://mpitalentagency.com/artist/mary-wilson-of-the-supremes/

http://www.marywilson.com/#!contact/c24vq

I wasn't talking about MPI. Didn't you even look at the links you posted here? I clearly described what can be seen on Delafont.com's webpage or didn't you even take the time to look in your rush at a feeble attempt to discredit me. I know what am talking about. You sure are strange. LOL!

[Roberta75]

I wasn't talking about MPI. Didn't you even look at the links you posted here? I clearly described what can be seen on Delafont.com's webpage or didn't you even take the time to look in your rush at a feeble attempt to discredit me. I know what am talking about. You sure are strange. LOL!

I included the MPI Talent agency link in my initial email and they also quote the 250000 book sales and there currently Marys booking agent. Im in no way trying to discredit you and Im not strange .

anyway. You know best so Im going to leave it at that.

yours, with every good wish.

Roberta

[reese]

...As for the mike change, I saw the performance on the night it aired, but was caught up in the finality of their appearance. I did not notice any mike change. My thoughts are that there was none on the night that it was telecast.

There were always two performances of most live variety shows, the dress rehearsal and the live performance. This performance is very clear and must come from one of the DVDs put out by Sofa Entertainment. They may have had access to both performances and edited it like this. After you pointed it out, I could notice the edit



The microphone switch can also be seen in the clips Diana used from this performance for her 1977 tv special. So it is more likely that this is the way it originally aired in 1969.

[Glenpwood]

Dreamgirl only peaked at #6 on the New York Times Hardcovers Bestsellers list, spending seven weeks in the Top 15...

8,10,7,6, 13, 15 - out

Not to dismiss the accomplishments of the book but the theory it sold millions in Hardcover & paperback is overstating its performance. The top selling book of 1987 in hardback or paperback sold 1.3 Million [[Stephen King's "Tommyknockers"). The biggest selling nonfiction book only moved 760,000 [[Spycatcher by Peter Wright) and Dreamgirl didn't make the end of the year's Top 10 best sellers for 1987 in paperback. Ironically, the biggest selling paperback of 1987 was from another Motown affiliated act - Bill Cosby.

Also, a paperback book can ship 1.5 million copies but that doesn't mean they all sold. Bookstores/Supermarkets/Drug Stores that carry paperbacks, like magazines, only have to return the cover of the book for credit then dump water on the rest of the book and throw it out! Dreamgirl did extremely well but this theory that goes around that it was a multi million selling number one doesn't really seem to be accurate. It may have topped the paperback chart but books in general in 1986-87 weren't moving those big sums. Plus, if Mary only made a million off the book as if often quoted in the press she must have signed a book deal as bad as the Primettes first with Hitsville so something isn't quite right, who would cut a deal to make less than a buck a book?

Ok, now we can go back to the backgrounds of Someday We'll Be Together......

[jobeterob]

Does every book that was ever published TOP the New York Times Best Seller List? Is this just another accomplishment akin to making #26 on a dance club AirPlay chart?

Mary Wilson is not a best selling artist outside of the Supremes. She had no hits.

What she is is a background singer and survivor that did a remarkable job of carving a career out of her supremes days and her affiliation with Diana Ross and Motown. She did much better than other background singers out of the Miracles, Pips, Vandellas etc.

And as we've seen over the tears and years, the producers didn't even use her as a background singer on dozens of songs and on some of the biggest hits.

[captainjames]

Actually, if you listen to the melody of hits without watching the performance you may hear Flo on one of those famous hits and I don't think Flo was behind the curtain. This leads me to believe in my opinion and my well trained ears that this performance was pre-recorded. That being said I am sure Diana had a mic that was open and Mary and Cindy may be heard on a couple of notes here and there. The two performances with the different mics leads one to believe that something went wrong on one of the performances for them to mesh the two together.

[johnjeb]

The two performances with the different mics leads one to believe that something went wrong on one of the performances for them to mesh the two together.

It's possible that the problem could have been with one of the videotapes, either the rehearsal or broadcast tape, and not necessarily the audio portion of either, nor something wrong with the performances.

[REDHOT]

Ok Jobeterob you are obsessed with saying negative things about Mary Wilson,it's almost funny,you and some others,won't stop at the chance to say something negative about her,you can always get a clown or 2,to go alone with you,Trust me,Mary Wilson is a Winner.Time To Move On lmao