A message for Ralph and Farewell SDF

[dba]

Hi Ralph, I came to this forum several years ago and have always enjoyed the fountain of knowledge displayed by many of the members. During that time I have made some new friends notably Andy Skurow and John Perrone.

The forum has always had it's negative posts and negative people [[but the good folks always took the day. Lately, however it has been hijacked by a few individuals [[to name their names would do the other members of this forum and you the moderator a disservice) who have turned this forum into mud slinging and negativity.
This I cannot abide and will get my Motown news from folks I have met on the Forum who I am friends with on FB [[including you Ralph).

If the negative posters disappear, I would be more than happy to return.

Many thanks to you Ralph and others for keeping the music alive!!!!

[Sotosound]

Understandable.

There's a thread going at the moment wherein one poster seems determined to be as nasty as they can about a female singer. This same person was equally nasty about the same female singer on another thread that then got deleted a couple of days ago.

Would it not be easier to just remove the poster from SDF and thence, perhaps, save Ralph having to ask the last person who leaves to shut the door behind them?

I'm currently looking at that door and wondering whether or not to step through into cleaner air since I didn't join SDF for this kind of unfettered nastiness.

[RobertZ]

Hi Ralph, I came to this forum several years ago and have always enjoyed the fountain of knowledge displayed by many of the members. During that time I have made some new friends notably Andy Skurow and John Perrone.

The forum has always had it's negative posts and negative people [[but the good folks always took the day. Lately, however it has been hijacked by a few individuals [[to name their names would do the other members of this forum and you the moderator a disservice) who have turned this forum into mud slinging and negativity.
This I cannot abide and will get my Motown news from folks I have met on the Forum who I am friends with on FB [[including you Ralph).

If the negative posters disappear, I would be more than happy to return.

Many thanks to you Ralph and others for keeping the music alive!!!!

Members leave in droves because of the same individual. I hang on by largely ignoring posts by that member. I' m sorry to see you go and request that you not give up. I don't like the idea of surrendering to one person. It's Ralph T's site so he gets to make the rules, but I'm on your side!

[longtimefan]

Evidence of this undesirable behavior by more than one poster is clear.

1. The participation rate [[new posts, replies, views) has greatly diminished over the last couple of years.
2. MANY of the veteran, knowledgable posters have left. We could all name several.
3. Few of the current posts are about MUSIC, but rather insignificant views about artists' personalities.

While we all like and respect Ralph, it's still sad to see this forum crumble. Agree?

[blackguy69]

Evidence of this undesirable behavior by more than one poster is clear.

1. The participation rate [[new posts, replies, views) has greatly diminished over the last couple of years.
2. MANY of the veteran, knowledgable posters have left. We could all name several.
3. Few of the current posts are about MUSIC, but rather insignificant views about artists' personalities.

While we all like and respect Ralph, it's still sad to see this forum crumble. Agree?

have to agree. it took me a while before i signed up. now im wondering was it worth it, while this isnt as bad as the youtube posters, some on here need to chill out and just be friendly. also it isnt fair just to single out one poster when more than one poster on here needs to check themselves

[midnightman]

^ Yeah it ain't just one person. I came here to discuss music and my favorite Motown artists, not to get it all drowned out by posts of unnecessary drama by some posters.

[marv2]

^ Yeah it ain't just one person. I came here to discuss music and my favorite Motown artists, not to get it all drowned out by posts of unnecessary drama by some posters.

Yeah me too. I've had people make nasty personal comments to me several times. But I will not let them infringe on my freedom of speech even though I don't respond back to them by name calling. I am here because I enjoy the music and discussing it along with the artists that made it!

[ralpht]

Sorry to read this. I do the best I can but it is impossible for me to read every thread, I rely on email complaints from members to make me aware of a problem. When I receive complaints I look into the problem immediately. In all honesty, in all the years I have been moderating this forum, I have seen problems from many differing areas of membership. There are many times I think complaints are registered too quickly, for when I check the thread out I don't find anything overly objectionable. So from my perspective I find many of you guilty of creating turmoil when it is not necessary. And why certain things posted couldn't simply be ignored and perhaps a problem is diverted.

So dba, sorry to see you go. I do what I can and apologize if I fall short.

[marv2]

Sorry to read this. I do the best I can but it is impossible for me to read every thread, I rely on email complaints from members to make me aware of a problem. When I receive complaints I look into the problem immediately. In all honesty, in all the years I have been moderating this forum, I have seen problems from many differing areas of membership. There are many times I think complaints are registered too quickly, for when I check the thread out I don't find anything overly objectionable. So from my perspective I find many of you guilty of creating turmoil when it is not necessary. And why certain things posted couldn't simply be ignored and perhaps a problem is diverted.

So dba, sorry to see you go. I do what I can and apologize if I fall short.

Ralph, you have nothing at all to apologize for. None of us would be here if it were not for YOU! Thank you for all that you do!

Marv

[soulster]

Ralph, there have been times that I, and other members had sent you both emails and private messages about a certain member, yet absolutely nothing was ever done. That person is still here, doing the same things. This member seems to have no fear of you because nothing is ever done to them.

Telling everyone to "just play nice" does not work on these people. You can, of course, run this place any way you want. But, it is obvious you need some help moderating this place.

On the other hand, maybe FB and Twitter is the place to be now. I don't like FB because Mr. Zuckerberg wants everyone to interact with everyone else, and I don't want to do that. Mr. Zuckerberg makes it very difficult to use his place and isolate yourself to only those you want to interact with. Someone needs to tell him that Facebook has long outgrown the little college community that spawned it.

[Bluebrock]

Ralph, there have been times that I, and other members had sent you both emails and private messages about a certain member, yet absolutely nothing was ever done. That person is still here, doing the same things. This member seems to have no fear of you because nothing is ever done to them.

Telling everyone to "just play nice" does not work on these people. You can, of course, run this place any way you want. But, it is obvious you need some help moderating this place.

On the other hand, maybe FB and Twitter is the place to be now. I don't like FB because Mr. Zuckerberg wants everyone to interact with everyone else, and I don't want to do that. Mr. Zuckerberg makes it very difficult to use his place and isolate yourself to only those you want to interact with. Someone needs to tell him that Facebook has long outgrown the little college community that spawned it.
I do hope you change your mind and return. This forum needs people such as yourself. Maybe after a cooling off period you will maybe return? Take care my friend.

[jobucats]

I find it ironic that some of the members who, in my humble opinion, post the most slanderous comments are the ones who are commenting on this thread as if they are part of the saintly ones who are always civil. There, I said it.

[vgalindo]

I find it ironic that some of the members who, in my humble opinion, post the most slanderous comments are the ones who are commenting on this thread as if they are part of the saintly ones who are always civil. There, I said it.
So true. I was just about to say the same thing!

[kenneth]

It seems the "Could Diana Have Pulled it Off?" thread was blasted into oblivion as a result of the usual suspect provoking others into a somewhat nasty back and forth regarding Diane Ross. It's too bad as the thread itself was very interesting and the discussion at least in the latter entries was civil.

It's too bad the only solution is to "disappear" the offending thread in order to censure the inappropriate poster[[s). Maybe a better way would be to just freeze the thread so no more updates but at least then we could see what it was that was offensive but still at least be able to read the interesting posts in the discussion. I think just nuking the thread neither lets the offenders know they were offenders and punishes those of us who are enjoying the discussion in spite of the usual vitriol which inevitably occurs when the discussion turns [[or is steered) towards Diana Ross.

[RobertZ]

It seems the "Could Diana Have Pulled it Off?" thread was blasted into oblivion as a result of the usual suspect provoking others into a somewhat nasty back and forth regarding Diane Ross. It's too bad as the thread itself was very interesting and the discussion at least in the latter entries was civil.

It's too bad the only solution is to "disappear" the offending thread in order to censure the inappropriate poster[[s). Maybe a better way would be to just freeze the thread so no more updates but at least then we could see what it was that was offensive but still at least be able to read the interesting posts in the discussion. I think just nuking the thread neither lets the offenders know they were offenders and punishes those of us who are enjoying the discussion in spite of the usual vitriol which inevitably occurs when the discussion turns [[or is steered) towards Diana Ross.
An interesting experiment would be to ban said individual for, say, a week, and see how the conversation flow goes. My guess would be: smoothly. When Diana Ross is brought into [[by the usual) an Ike Turner thread, well, 'ya know something's wrong.

[kenneth]

@RobertZ, Exactly...she gets blamed for everything from Florence's fall to global warming...

[mysterysinger]

Very sad. Ralph does do a good job and life without SDF would be all the poorer. In other circumstances many of the comments could be seen as good banter but there's a vitriolic streak in some folks who post and then it's nasty. The Freda Payne thread went west.

So some appropriate songs for the occasion?
I'm "Leaving Here", "Giving Up"
"Because of You" and "The Way You Do The Things You Do"
"I've Gotta Get Away"
"It's A Shame" as "Farewell Is A Lonely Sound"
"It's So Hard For Me To Say Goodbye" but, well, "Bye Bye Baby"

[kenneth]

Bravo, mystersinger!

How about:

"Sorry is a Sorry Word" [[though we never hear "I'm sorry" from the chief architects of the problem)

Or for banned members:

"Loneliness Is a Lonely Feeling"
or
"Living in a World I Created for Myself"

[motown01]

I'm very thankful for this forum and I think that Ralph does the best he can in 'policing' some of the threads here. Unfortunately I think it would be impossible to stay on top of everything that goes on here.

I usually just gloss over the silly posts and try to avoid reading them whenever possible. I think the mental stability of some of the participants is questionable, and it's best to not 'fan the flame' by participating or responding. I'm just here to talk about the music.

As much as I love The Supremes, I generally try to avoid topics about them here. It usually descends into insanity very quickly.

[florence]

Ralph, there have been times that I, and other members had sent you both emails and private messages about a certain member, yet absolutely nothing was ever done. That person is still here, doing the same things. This member seems to have no fear of you because nothing is ever done to them.

Telling everyone to "just play nice" does not work on these people. You can, of course, run this place any way you want. But, it is obvious you need some help moderating this place.

On the other hand, maybe FB and Twitter is the place to be now. I don't like FB because Mr. Zuckerberg wants everyone to interact with everyone else, and I don't want to do that. Mr. Zuckerberg makes it very difficult to use his place and isolate yourself to only those you want to interact with. Someone needs to tell him that Facebook has long outgrown the little college community that spawned it.

Sorry, Ralph but I have to agree with Soulster.

I'm not a prolific contributor but I've been biting my tongue now for the last couple of weeks.

The best way would of course be for everyone to ignore any spurious or provocative posts, unfortunately a number of members have been drawn in to responding particularly in the past few days allowing the perpetrator to try to claim "moral high ground".

I take your point that there are many "guilty" posters but in my humble opinion much of this is in response to the person that Soulster refers to.

I appreciate that your word is final but I am at a loss to know why this one person is allowed again and again to continue the shenanigans without impunity.

[RobertZ]

Now that I've discovered the "ignore" feature, I recommend it to all. I'm confident that the site will, for me, be a great experience once again.

[BayouMotownMan]

Now that I've discovered the "ignore" feature, I recommend it to all. I'm confident that the site will, for me, be a great experience once again.

The problem with the IGNORE feature is that inevitably someone will cut and paste the offensive comment and there it is.

I have emailed Ralph one more time to try and reason with him about this individual. I encourage anyone wanting to vacate the boards to give it one more try.

I am prepared to send the offensive post about Ross and Richie to both Diana Ross's attorney and Richie's secretary.

[soulster]

The problem with the IGNORE feature is that inevitably someone will cut and paste the offensive comment and there it is.

I have emailed Ralph one more time to try and reason with him about this individual. I encourage anyone wanting to vacate the boards to give it one more try.

I am prepared to send the offensive post about Ross and Richie to both Diana Ross's attorney and Richie's secretary. I don't know what the post was, but i'd just do it!

[BayouMotownMan]

No in respect to Ralph I will give him an opportunity to truly address the issue. Ralph does work hard on this site and I truly don't believe he knows of the disturbed mind he is dealing with. I feel he is trying to be fair or perhaps there is some other ulterior motive. We'll see.

[ralpht]

There are no ulterior motives. I'm sure the individual you tacitly refer to is Marv. Well, guess what...there are others that like to try and push buttons here. It seems to me, Marv just gets singled out for everything by some that simply don't like the guy. I wish those that complain the loudest would bring to the table what Marv does on an almost daily basis. And because this is a FORUM, Marv is entitled to an opinion just as everyone is here. So...I wish some of you would quit complaining and ignore what you may not agree with. I really don't have time for all of this right now. I'm up to my neck in moving issues. If those of you that feel there is some problem I'm not addressing, I'm sorry. Maybe its best you go elsewhere and look for a forum that is free of charge that suits your needs better.

[MIKEW-UK]

Having known Ralph in person as well as on the forum, he is genuinely the nicest, positive and warmest person you could wish for. Furthermore, he has the stamina, judgement and dedication that makes this forum work. In my opinion, he demonstrates good judgement, pragmatism and a whole lot of wisdom. By the way, he doesn't get paid for making this a part of his life. His personal contributions have been fundamental to this forum. He also lived the whole Motown Detroit experience so who better placed. His role is not to provide adult supervision to this forum, but to try and exercise judgement where instances are brought to his attention when outrageous statements are made. He endeavours to balance freedom of speech against unpleasant comments. I haven't encountered anyone who could begin to do this job better, including some who offer to take on the role. Ralph has been an absolute gem for this forum. Some time ago, I decided to take the best of the forum from those who are passionate about the music, and blank out the negatives, as one does in every day life. This forum has given me an awful lot of pleasure over the years, and I know that so many of you like minded moderates feel equally passionate about the forum as a meeting point to share our thoughts about the music we have been passionate about throughout our lives. Again, thanks Ralph.

Oh, and dba, I was once in the very same place. I much prefer you stay with us, as I did.

[woodward]

Not being a technological saavy expert, how about something like this. Why not have a button "inappropriate" and if another member felt that the posting was inappropriate they could click on this button and the poster would be notified that another member felt their posting was inappropriate. There could also be a notification to Ralph of the feeling that it was inappropriate and if Ralph say got ten notifications within a two week period against a poster he could terminate the bad guy. Also by a member hitting the inappropriate key, the posting should be easy to remove. That way the poster would not be surprised that others felt a dislike for the posting. I don't know if something like this could be instituted, but it would cut down on some of the sarcasm and negative comments about the artists. What do others think?

[supremester]

Perhaps keeping said individual prohibited from a certain topic would be the best way.

[BayouMotownMan]

Ralph, you posted this over a year ago:

I've been reading your comments regarding the problems that arise from all things Supreme. When valued members talk of leaving Soulful Detroit because of the stupidity of some of these threads, then it is time for me to act.

Here is my proposal: Since I can't and won't ban any threads relating to all of the fine and talented women who are, or once were, part of the Supremes, I can play a little hard ball with anyone who creates a problem. Even the slightest. I will immediately delete the thread and PERMANENTLY ban the instigator.


Sorry Ralph but where one person is concerned you have not enforced this.

It's time to go to Lowell again.

[RobertZ]

Lots of the recent ideas are good, but maybe a bit complicated. I have, today, discovered the "ignore" option and have used it. I anticipate smooth sailing with the site from now on because there was only really 1 problem poster. I recommend everyone make use of the ignore option for anyone they find troublesome. It's really a great option to have -

[BayouMotownMan]

Guys from the post Ralph has made, once again empowering ****** it is clear to me that Ralph shares Marvin's opinions of Diana Ross, which is sad to me, because like her or not she is the face of Motown.

This will no longer be a Motown appreciation forum. Now Marvin will run with this ball and make it purely a Diana Ross bashing site, or a bashing of anyone who doesn't feel the way he does about Mary.

Have fun Ralph and Marvin.

[jobucats]

Where is this "ignore" feature some of you are talking about.

[Roberta75]

07-31-2014, 07:58 AM #1 [[http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?12261-Okay-gang-here-is-the-new-deal&p=244432#post244432)

ralpht [[http://soulfuldetroit.com/member.php?1118-ralpht)
Okay gang, here is the new deal..... I've been reading your comments regarding the problems that arise from all things Supreme. When valued members talk of leaving Soulful Detroit because of the stupidity of some of these threads, then it is time for me to act. Here is my proposal: Since I can't and won't ban any threads relating to all of the fine and talented women who are, or once were, part of the Supremes, I can play a little hard ball with anyone who creates a problem. Even the slightest. I will immediately delete the thread and PERMANENTLY ban the instigator. I'm tired of the constant and senseless bickering that arises from these threads. Why this happens is beyond my understanding. I may not be able to understand it, but I can most certainly stop it. So from this point on, any Supreme, Mary, Diana threads are to be interesting, informative and RESPECTFULL.

For the good of this here forum I respectfully think you need to start enforcing this for ALL members Ralph.

Yours, with every good wish.

Roberta

[thanxal]

There are no ulterior motives. I'm sure the individual you tacitly refer to is Marv. Well, guess what...there are others that like to try and push buttons here. It seems to me, Marv just gets singled out for everything by some that simply don't like the guy. I wish those that complain the loudest would bring to the table what Marv does on an almost daily basis. And because this is a FORUM, Marv is entitled to an opinion just as everyone is here. So...I wish some of you would quit complaining and ignore what you may not agree with. I really don't have time for all of this right now. I'm up to my neck in moving issues. If those of you that feel there is some problem I'm not addressing, I'm sorry. Maybe its best you go elsewhere and look for a forum that is free of charge that suits your needs better.

Ralph, with great respect, as I admire you for keeping this forum running...

I have stayed clear of all of these threads and actively boycott any of the nasty ones, but I can not stay silent about this. I have no personal grudge against Marv or anyone else. I have never engaged him in an argument and kept clear of all the drama [[check my posts), but there is a pattern of behavior here that should be unacceptable.

We are not talking about someone expressing an opinion. We're not even talking about someone who holds a negative opinion about a Motown star . We are talking about someone who actively derails non-Supremes/Ross threads, pushes them toward inflammatory and derogatory statements about Diana Ross and then actively baits others into an argument in what I can only assume is an attempt to get them banned. And God forbid the contributor who posts anything, and I do mean anything, at all that has to do with the Supremes. Just go back and read for yourself. Some people have gotten banned because they couldn't hold back. Fine. They said things and deserved to be banned. I encourage you to go back and look at those threads. Do you see any pattern regarding who was involved?

So no. We're not talking about freedom of speech or "this is the internet". We're talking about an observable, documented and repeated pattern of behavior. All people are asking is to stop the bile and vitriolic posts about Diana Ross that now appear in almost every single thread. That's it. Have a negative opinion of her, fine. But stop the derailing of nearly every single post into a Diana Ross bashing festival.

Of course, this is your forum and your rules and I respect that. But there should be no surprises when even the die-hards who love Motown more than they abhor such behavior finally call it quits and give up.

And that would be a sad, sad outcome.

[REDHOT]

I agree with you Ralph,if you don't like it,move on,Ralph has nothing to apologize about ,it's these people,[[some are on this post)They are the ones,that keep up the mess,and drama,and now some is trying to play nice,keep on doing what your doing Ralph,if they don't know how to ignore,maybe it's time for them to move on,i'v seen it,a lot of people,[[not all)gang up on Marv,because hes not a Diana Ross fan,to each his own.Don't come up with idea's,when you are the one,who keeps up the mess and drama going,Keep on doing what your doing Ralph.

[vgalindo]

I really don't care that he is not a Diana Ross fan. The point is he is obsessed with trashing her constantly. I have nothing against him voicing his opinion but he goes over board with calling her demeaning names talking always about her looks and weight. If he was truly voicing his opinion he would criticize other Motown ladies who are obviously over weight and not perfect. It's only his hate towards Diana and it gets very annoying. He bates people into saying not nice things about his love Mary Wilson. It is really very sad!

[kenneth]

I agree that Ralph seems to give a pass to Marv regardless of the way he turns as many threads as possible into a Diane bashing. I think the reason is Marv's most vitriolic posts have been on other sites, such as YouTube, and he's kept the nasty gay baiting and other stuff off of here. So although we know about the other trending stuff, Ralph is sticking to the rules for his site only. That's appropriate.

I don't mind the differences of opinion. Actually, I thought the discussion Marv and i were having about the Diane singing Jean songs was interesting. Of course, I know that Marv's bias keeps him from ever admitting fault or changing his mind, so it's more or less a lesson in futility, but he was civil throughout that discussion [[unless something happened that I didn't see later).

[Roberta75]

I agree that Ralph seems to give a pass to Marv regardless of the way he turns as many threads as possible into a Diane bashing. I think the reason is Marv's most vitriolic posts have been on other sites, such as YouTube, and he's kept the nasty gay baiting and other stuff off of here. So although we know about the other trending stuff, Ralph is sticking to the rules for his site only. That's appropriate.

I don't mind the differences of opinion. Actually, I thought the discussion Marv and i were having about the Diane singing Jean songs was interesting. Of course, I know that Marv's bias keeps him from ever admitting fault or changing his mind, so it's more or less a lesson in futility, but he was civil throughout that discussion [[unless something happened that I didn't see later).

Marv is entitled to his opinions but those opinions needs to avoid trashing people and telling them to "bite him" and calling folks "dumb" and stop just being downright mean and real nasty at times. We get it. He dont like Diane Ross but must he trash her day after day after day. Its getting real old and if he stopped it people would stop getting into argiuments with him.

Roberta

[drlorne]

I agree with Ralph...don't play Marv's game when he's playing. Continue with the subject of the thread. Why do people react to him? on the other hand Marv often has insightful, historic contributions to the forum and I can filter his posts.

[marv2]

Guys from the post Ralph has made, once again empowering ****** it is clear to me that Ralph shares Marvin's opinions of Diana Ross, which is sad to me, because like her or not she is the face of Motown.

This will no longer be a Motown appreciation forum. Now Marvin will run with this ball and make it purely a Diana Ross bashing site, or a bashing of anyone who doesn't feel the way he does about Mary.

Have fun Ralph and Marvin.

I am going to say this once. Do not project your sins onto me! Also do not use my full name on this or any forum without my permission. I know your full name but I know it is not appropriate to use it here or anywhere else without permission.

[midnightman]

Guys, Ralph is right. I love Diana Ross but I'm not gonna be one of those people to engage in battle with someone who don't. I almost let that get to me a few years ago but I learned to ignore all the pettiness and focus on the music and the legacy left behind from ALL Motown acts. We have some great threads here that should get more people to comment. Focus on that, y'all. That's all.

[soulster]

Perhaps keeping said individual prohibited from a certain topic would be the best way.

You can't realistically do that. If you start down that road, you have to start doing that for each member. I don't even know if this software offers that feature. I know some of them do.

My complaint isn't about Marv, though, it's about another member.

[soulster]

Guys, Ralph is right. I love Diana Ross but I'm not gonna be one of those people to engage in battle with someone who don't. I almost let that get to me a few years ago but I learned to ignore all the pettiness and focus on the music and the legacy left behind from ALL Motown acts. We have some great threads here that should get more people to comment. Focus on that, y'all. That's all.

I just cannot understand how a bunch of grown men can argue about some singer like they do. I like some of Diana Ross's music. And, that's all I really wish to talk about: the music! I wish everyone felt the same.

[jobeterob]

I would go along with "like who you like, let the others be". Go to what interests you and ignore "Evan Ross" is you don't care if he is having babies.

But the meanness and nastiness is unnecessary.

I have some apprehension about how much longer SD can last. The music posts have declined. Word Association is the hit.

I can't imagine what a Ross relative would think of the posts. But perhaps they are accustomed to obsessed and deranged people and put them on ignore all the time.

[grapevine]

...Word Association is the hit.

...the Soulful Detroit Jukebox is still going strong too...!!

...dba ...hang on in there and avoid hazardous posts ...and posters...!

...and hey! ...it's Saturday ...enjoy your day :)

[ralpht]

I notice on some Facebook page that a member who is leaving the forum claims I must have mental issues. It makes me wonder how well he would do running this show. It is so easy to criticize.

[ralpht]

Redhot,
Thank you for your post. A voice of reason. And true, if one doesn't like what goes on here, then leave. Plain and simple.

And Marv is right, Bayou. Totally out of line to post his full name. I'm going to edit that out.

[detmotownguy]

I am going to say this once. Do not project your sins onto me! Also do not use my full name on this or any forum without my permission. I know your full name but I know it is not appropriate to use it here or anywhere else without permission.

Hey Marv hope all is well! Check you in box please as I have some information for you about this issue.
Thanks

[westgrandboulevard]

We have a choice..........


We have a choice of becoming members of SDF, and of becoming entitled to sign in under our chosen screen name, and perhaps create a distinct personality apart from our real selves.

We have a choice of posting not only our own thoughts, but in response to those of others here.

We have a choice of not signing in, and simply viewing what others have written.

We have a choice of selecting threads which interest us, or posts from members who generally interest us.

We have a choice of disregarding comments which do not interest us, even if we should and do respect the opinion of those who made them.

We have a choice of disregarding comments from those we may feel we dislike, perhaps because they may be critical of someone we do like, and we should respect their right to do so.

We have a choice of dropping in here to make our big world a little smaller, to share with our friends here, and to enjoy the time we have together, while we still have it.

We have a choice to bring our unhappiness and misery, bad temper, illness, poverty and outright loneliness here, and hope to find a little understanding, without drenching our fellow members with our problems, yet perhaps be offered the opportunity to express and share them.

We have a choice, if we feel that all the above has failed us, to leave.

We have a choice to leave due to other constraints on time available to us, and to look forward to any of our other activities, yet be both sad and thankful for good times here, which may never return for us.

We have a choice to leave SDF feeling bitter and unhappy, if that is the choice we feel we cannot avoid.

I choose to stay for all the above reasons, except the one immediately above.

I value myself too much ever to allow that one to happen to me, and truly hope that it applies to everyone else.

I'm glad and pleased to be here for all the positive reasons. All the 2000+ members, and any views they hold, represent value and infinite variety.

Any views expressed here which are more controversial from mine simply do not bother me. At least someone took time and trouble to state them, instead of remaining silent and not participating at all. If each of us did that, there would be no forum for us to visit.

I'm grateful for the opportunity to simply state how I feel, whenever the spirit moves me.

I'm grateful for my choice.

I'm still here, and I'm going nowhere. ;)

[ralpht]

Glad to know you're sticking, West.

[REDHOT]

Well said Westgradboulevard,You're welcome Ralph,again keep on doing what you're doing.

[soulster]

I notice on some Facebook page that a member who is leaving the forum claims I must have mental issues. It makes me wonder how well he would do running this show. It is so easy to criticize.
Well, it ain't me because I don't go on Facebook. It's probably one of these antagonizers we keep reporting to you about.

[phil]

We have a choice of selecting threads which interest us,



That's what I do everyday and that's why I'm not that much interested in the Motown threads. Evan Ross...mmmm... what's next ? Miss D.'s cats and dogs ? LOL.

Sorry if this may sound offensive to some of you but I can't understand idolatry. I'm here for music, be it from Detroit or elsewhere .

[midnightman]

Yeah I don't get idolatry either lol

There was a period I idolized folks haha

Just bad. I avoid those threads too, they add nothing to the thread either.

[RobertZ]

Well, it ain't me because I don't go on Facebook. It's probably one of these antagonizers we keep reporting to you about.
Certainly unfortunate language. I didn't know this forum had a FB component.

[soulster]

Yeah I don't get idolatry either lol

There was a period I idolized folks haha

Just bad. I avoid those threads too, they add nothing to the thread either.

I hate it when the idol worshippers come into threads that are totally unrelated to DR, Mary Wilson, The Supremes, or anyone else related, and turn them into discussions about them. That's the main reason I get angry.

[soulster]

Certainly unfortunate language. I didn't know this forum had a FB component.

It doesn't. But, according to another poster, or Ralph himself, Ralph is there. So are most of the industry cats. They don't have to deal with the garbage you see on message boards like this.

[Bluebrock]

That's what I do everyday and that's why I'm not that much interested in the Motown threads. Evan Ross...mmmm... what's next ? Miss D.'s cats and dogs ? LOL.

Sorry if this may sound offensive to some of you but I can't understand idolatry. I'm here for music, be it from Detroit or elsewhere .
Yes indeed Phil. If i want idle gossip about personal issues there are plenty of sources to satisfy the most curious of souls. Here is should be all about the music.

[antceleb12]

Guys from the post Ralph has made, once again empowering ****** it is clear to me that Ralph shares Marvin's opinions of Diana Ross, which is sad to me, because like her or not she is the face of Motown.

This will no longer be a Motown appreciation forum. Now Marvin will run with this ball and make it purely a Diana Ross bashing site, or a bashing of anyone who doesn't feel the way he does about Mary.

Have fun Ralph and Marvin.

This is beyond out of line. It is infuriating to see so many people whine and bad-mouth each other when they could instead just leave. If you really have that big of a problem with Ralph or any of the members, why are you here? I've had it out with a few members here, but that was that. We resolved whatever disagreement there was between us and moved on with our lives. I didn't go badmouthing them and tattle to Ralph. There are some members with whom I prefer not to discuss certain topics because our ideas and personalities don't mesh. Avoid the problem. Don't go chasing it.

[ralpht]

Bayou,
You don't have a clue who I favor. Read anticeleb's post. It makes so much sense. However, if you really care to know my favorite Motown female, it would be Gladys Knight. That girl knows how to sing. But I would never minimize Diana's contribution to Motown.

[soulster]

Guys from the post Ralph has made, once again empowering ****** it is clear to me that Ralph shares Marvin's opinions of Diana Ross, which is sad to me, because like her or not she is the face of Motown.

This will no longer be a Motown appreciation forum. Now Marvin will run with this ball and make it purely a Diana Ross bashing site, or a bashing of anyone who doesn't feel the way he does about Mary.

Have fun Ralph and Marvin.

Ralph doesn't share opinions with anyone. He's just tired of all the Marv bashing on this forum. If you don't like the guy, just don't address him. Don't mention him. Ignore him. That's all ya gotta do! Move on with your life!

The Temptations, Marvin Gaye, Commodores, The Four Tops, Rick James, Lionel Richie, The Jackson 5, and many others are also very prominent, if not dominant faces of Motown. This is not specifically a Diana Ross appreciation forum, it's a Detroit Soul Music appreciation forum. That means we can talk about Hot Wax/Invictus, Parliament/Funkadelic, Eddie Hazel, Aretha Franklin, Bob Seger, Dennis Coffey, The Dramatics, Johnnie Taylor, and even that moron Ted Nugent if you must. And, Ralph has made it clear that we can even talk about music that is not specific to Detroit or Motown. It's about music, so we can talk about audio, songwriting, engineering, and other music-related stuff. And you can even talk about you sequined gowns. You can be 100% sure that i'll never, ever participate in those kinds of threads!:)

All you Ross freaks can talk about Diana Ross all you want. Just be respectful, don't introduce her into threads that have nothing to do with her, and leave Marv out of it! [[BTW, when I use the word "freaks", I do not mean that in a disparaging manner.)

And, for all of you guys that have been bashing Marv, there is one member that has not yet been mentioned that should be: Roberta 75!

[Roberta75]

Ralph doesn't share opinions with anyone. He's just tired of all the Marv bashing on this forum. If you don't like the guy, just don't address him. Don't mention him. Ignore him. That's all ya gotta do! Move on with your life!

The Temptations, Marvin Gaye, Commodores, The Four Tops, Rick James, Lionel Richie, The Jackson 5, and many others are also very prominent, if not dominant faces of Motown. This is not specifically a Diana Ross appreciation forum, it's a Detroit Soul Music appreciation forum. That means we can talk about Hot Wax/Invictus, Parliament/Funkadelic, Eddie Hazel, Aretha Franklin, Bob Seger, Dennis Coffey, The Dramatics, Johnnie Taylor, and even that moron Ted Nugent if you must. And, Ralph has made it clear that we can even talk about music that is not specific to Detroit or Motown. It's about music, so we can talk about audio, songwriting, engineering, and other music-related stuff. And you can even talk about you sequined gowns. You can be 100% sure that i'll never, ever participate in those kinds of threads!:)

All you Ross freaks can talk about Diana Ross all you want. Just be respectful, don't introduce her into threads that have nothing to do with her, and leave Marv out of it! [[BTW, when I use the word "freaks", I do not mean that in a disparaging manner.)

And, for all of you guys that have been bashing Marv, there is one member that has not yet been mentioned that should be: Roberta 75!

If you want to address me Soulster then man up stop being so passive aggressive. You can address me directly in this here forum or you can send me a private message and I will be happy to adress your issues with me. You can also contact me via private message at Facebook.

Or or you could take your own advice youve been real quick to tell everyone else to follow. "If you don't like the girl, just don't address her. Don't mention her. Ignore her. That's all ya gotta do! Move on with your life!"

[soulster]

If you want to address me Soulster then man up stop being so passive aggressive. You can address me directly in this here forum or you can send me a private message and I will be happy to adress your issues with me. You can also contact me via private message at Facebook.

I'll do it right here: You and I don't have any issues. We seem to agree on a lot of things, especially politics. But, honestly, from what I see, you are one of the chief Marv bashers here. If you end it, you could be a leader for others in stopping it too.

Marv isn't going anywhere any more than you or me, so, it does no good to keep bashing him. I'm no fan of Marv, but i'm not an enemy, either. I just get tired of seeing this Marv bashing at every turn. Again, it isn't really just you, but several of the Ross fans here. So what if he doesn't care for Diana Ross? A lot of people don't. A lot of people have said nasty things about her on other places on the internet. I'm sure Diana Ross isn't upset about it, so why should any of you be upset?

I get my little digs in too once in a while. I freely admit it. But, it's only because I feel like this forum is overrun with unchecked Ross idol worship. It's because of all the constant bickering I see. It's because the bickering has chased the industry people, and a lot of longtime members away from this forum. I was here back in 2002, even though my screen name and account changed several years ago. I remember how it once was before the Ross/Supremes fanatics came in here.

If I had to choose my favorite female Motown singers, it would be both Brenda Holloway and Teena Marie. And, yes, I do have quite a bit of Supremes/Ross music in my collection.

I am not the enemy. No one is.

[Roberta75]

I'll do it right here: You and I don't have any issues. We seem to agree on a lot of things, especially politics. But, honestly, from what I see, you are one of the chief Marv bashers here. If you end it, you could be a leader for others in stopping it too.

Marv isn't going anywhere any more than you or me, so, it does no good to keep bashing him. I'm no fan of Marv, but i'm not an enemy, either. I just get tired of seeing this Marv bashing at every turn. Again, it isn't really just you, but several of the Ross fans here. So what if he doesn't care for Diana Ross? A lot of people don't. A lot of people have said nasty things about on other places on the internet. I'm sure Diana Ross isn't upset about it, so why should any of you be upset?

If Marv stopped ruining every darned Diane Ross thread with negative comments day after day after day youd never See me adress him. Its real tired and we all get it that he doesnt like Diane. So stop entering her threads with horrible comments. I dont care for Gladys Knight but you wont find me in Gladys Knight threads trashing her. Why? Because she doesnt mean anything to me so Im not going to spend my energy on the woman. I wish Miss Knight well but Id never spend a nickel on her concerts or albums.

Ralph Sid the following in August of 2014 in this here forum

"Since I can't and won't ban any threads relating to all of the fine and talented women who are, or once were, part of the Supremes, I can play a little hard ball with anyone who creates a problem. Even the slightest. I will immediately delete the thread and PERMANENTLY ban the instigatorSo from this point on, any Supreme, Mary, Diana threads are to be interesting, informative and RESPECTFULL"

i dont see this happening and the main culprit who all but ruins every Diane Ross thread is given a free pass over and over and over again. Oh well its not my forum but it sure seems odd IMO that the rules above get bent to protect some members.

i than you for your comment to me.

yours, with every good wish.

Roberta

[soulster]

If Marv stopped ruining every darned Diane Ross thread with negative comments day after day after day youd never See me adress him. Its real tired and we all get it that he doesnt like Diane. So stop entering her threads with horrible comments. I dont care for Gladys Knight but you wont find me in Gladys Knight threads trashing her. Why? Because she doesnt mean anything to me so Im not going to spend my energy on the woman. I wish Miss Knight well but Id never spend a nickel on her concerts or albums.

Ralph Sid the following in August of 2014 in this here forum

"Since I can't and won't ban any threads relating to all of the fine and talented women who are, or once were, part of the Supremes, I can play a little hard ball with anyone who creates a problem. Even the slightest. I will immediately delete the thread and PERMANENTLY ban the instigatorSo from this point on, any Supreme, Mary, Diana threads are to be interesting, informative and RESPECTFULL"

i dont see this happening and the main culprit who all but ruins every Diane Ross thread is given a free pass over and over and over again. Oh well its not my forum but it sure seems odd IMO that the rules above get bent to protect some members.

i than you for your comment to me.

yours, with every good wish.

Roberta
I'm not saying you're wrong, but if I do dare to look at those threads, I do not see Marv starting the shit. If he is, he should stop it too.

Ralph isn't banning either one of you. He's not playing favorites. He's not going to ban him on your say-so, and he's not going to ban you on his say-so. But, I see a lot of Marv bashing from the Ross fans here. Apparently, so does Ralph. If I am wrong, show me some examples.


Whenever people bash Diana Ross around here, she's not really the target. It's the Ross fans that the aim is for. That should tell you something!

I will gladly end my dig at you guys if you just use a bit of constraint with the Ross/Supremes discussions. Marv and I should not bash you guys, and you should not bash Marv or me.

The bottom line for me is that the industry people are no longer here because of all the interpersonal crap constantly going on. That's unfortunate. I like to see a nice, diverse mix of discussions about all kinds of things, especially the technical side of things!

I just don't like seeing endless Ross/Supremes threads when I log in here, or bait and switch thread titles, and I think some of the Ross fans do that to annoy everyone else. That is the kind of thing I wish Ralph would crack down on, but, as is pointed out, it's his forum.

I propose that from this point forward, we all start from scratch. Pretend this is a brand new forum and that none of us know about the other.

[RobertZ]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if I do dare to look at those threads, I do not see Marv starting the shit. If he is, he should stop it too.

Ralph isn't banning either one of you. He's not playing favorites. He's not going to ban him on your say-so, and he's not going to ban you on his say-so. But, I see a lot of Marv bashing from the Ross fans here. Apparently, so does Ralph. If I am wrong, show me some examples.


Whenever people bash Diana Ross around here, she's not really the target. It's the Ross fans that the aim is for. That should tell you something!

I will gladly end my dig at you guys if you just use a bit of constraint with the Ross/Supremes discussions. Marv and I should not bash you guys, and you should not bash Marv or me.

The bottom line for me is that the industry people are no longer here because of all the interpersonal crap constantly going on. That's unfortunate. I like to see a nice, diverse mix of discussions about all kinds of things, especially the technical side of things!

I just don't like seeing endless Ross/Supremes threads when I log in here, or bait and switch thread titles, and I think some of the Ross fans do that to annoy everyone else. That is the kind of thing I wish Ralph would crack down on, but, as is pointed out, it's his forum.

I propose that from this point forward, we all start from scratch. Pretend this is a brand new forum and that none of us know about the other.
The "I propose..." part is wise; I only offer that since I have built my "Ignore" list the forum has again [[for me) been a pleasant place to visit.

[Roberta75]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if I do dare to look at those threads, I do not see Marv starting the shit. If he is, he should stop it too.

Ralph isn't banning either one of you. He's not playing favorites. He's not going to ban him on your say-so, and he's not going to ban you on his say-so. But, I see a lot of Marv bashing from the Ross fans here. Apparently, so does Ralph. If I am wrong, show me some examples.


Whenever people bash Diana Ross around here, she's not really the target. It's the Ross fans that the aim is for. That should tell you something!

I will gladly end my dig at you guys if you just use a bit of constraint with the Ross/Supremes discussions. Marv and I should not bash you guys, and you should not bash Marv or me.

The bottom line for me is that the industry people are no longer here because of all the interpersonal crap constantly going on. That's unfortunate. I like to see a nice, diverse mix of discussions about all kinds of things, especially the technical side of things!

I just don't like seeing endless Ross/Supremes threads when I log in here, or bait and switch thread titles, and I think some of the Ross fans do that to annoy everyone else. That is the kind of thing I wish Ralph would crack down on, but, as is pointed out, it's his forum.

I propose that from this point forward, we all start from scratch. Pretend this is a brand new forum and that none of us know about the other.

The remaining threads that have not been deleted speaks for themself when it comes to seeing who starts the sh*t as you said but the good Lord gave me eyes and opened them for me to see all. Im not the smartest person on this here forum but I can plainly see a person with an unhealthy obsession with Diane Ross and the nasty comments they make. There can be a thousand Diane Ross or Supremes threads its our choice if we decide to click on them. I avoid about 50% of them. Dr Martha Reeves is my favorite performer ever but Diane Ross is one he Heck of a great perfumer and singer. I am fully prepared To move forward and start fresh.

I end with these here words that I try to live by. "One great power of sin is that it blinds men so that they do not recognize its true character. In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don’t.The eyes are useless when the mind is blind"

fondly,

Roberta

[thanxal]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if I do dare to look at those threads, I do not see Marv starting the shit. If he is, he should stop it too.
.

I have been watching. He has been very disruptive. And he gets away with it every time.
And then acts innocent, as if he did nothing but "express an opinion". He hijacked the Ike Turner thread, the Susaye Greene thread and so many more its pathetic. And please note that I'm decidedly not a huge Diana Ross fan.

What would happen if I posted nasty, vile comments repeatedly about Mary Wilson on threads that had nothing to do with her? I would bet that I would get banned. But I would never do such a thing since I respect ALL Motown artists. The fact that a site supposedly devoted to keeping the spirit of Motown alive degenerates into such nastiness about ANY of its artists is sad.

Enjoy your forum. Its become the Marv2 show and not worth bothering with anymore. I do have a choice and I choose not to hang around here anymore. I'll find someplace else to get my Motown fix.

[Roberta75]

The "I propose..." part is wise; I only offer that since I have built my "Ignore" list the forum has again [[for me) been a pleasant place to visit.

Very wise my dear RobertZ. Im placing someone on permanent ignore as well.

have a blessed and beautiful Sunday.

yours, with every good wish.

Roberta

[ralpht]

So if the truth be known, I will be watching you Supremes/Ross zealots a little more closely simply because I really do feel you guys tend to roil the waters around here.

[RobertZ]

So if the truth be known, I will be watching you Supremes/Ross zealots a little more closely simply because I really do feel you guys tend to roil the waters around here.
Based on this utterly absurd comment, I'm out. I've pm'd several contacts here so I request a 24 hour period so they can get my contact info. Then please delete my user name and password. "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". Best to [[almost) all.

[ralpht]

Sorry you feel that way Robert.

[Sotosound]

And even this thread is heading down the pan, with posters disagreeing over things, naming names and throwing in some inflammatory remarks.

In reality, this thread, which was intended to discuss why someone feels obliged to leave, has ended up demonstrating exactly why they feel obliged to leave and has also managed to drive another member away in the process.

SDF is the only forum that I'm a member of where posters behave like this.

This is worse than the Barnes Ewing feud in Dallas. Cliff Barnes and JR Ewing just couldn't let things rest. They had an excuse, however, inasmuch as they were fictional characters and the scriptwriters forced them down that road.

This, however, is real life, and I really don't understand how adults old enough to be Motown fans first time around can behave in this way.

To quote the title of an old Gene Pitney track - "Where Did The Magic Go?"

[ralpht]

This happens from time to time, Soto. My wish is for all those that are not happy here, simply leave.

[REDHOT]

It's as simply as that Ralph,just leave

[westgrandboulevard]

I agree, Ralph and Redhot.

The potential for magic is most definitely still here. There's such a lot of talent available, but magic is all in the making, and in being positive.

We all feel the benefit while new threads continue to be created and supported. These reduce the impact of the overtly negative and hostile comments from the few who passively read the work of others, but who do not, and will never create anything of their own.

As long as new threads continue to be created, in numbers far in excess of the few threads that need to be deleted, and which offer an opportunity for a good-natured contribution from any member, the magic is then swiftly created.:)

[jobucats]

More aggravating and disruptive to me than the Diana [[Diane) Ross bashing culprit are those who respond to him. This reminds me of when I taught middle school. There would always be this one kid who would constantly make rude comments only to get a response or as we called it "get a rise out of somebody." He was an attention seeker. There are a couple of you who always respond to keep the s#it going. Is this something you and the trouble maker have planned?

On second thought, maybe this is a planned setup for this forum to have that 'one' member whose responsibility is to get things going downhill. You know, reality shows use this formula. And then there's that one victim who always overtly reacts to the trouble starter and they go back and forth. That victim knows who she/he is...the one who claims to be so innocent and claims to be a peacemaker.

When I do post on the forum, I find it necessary to state that my views are my opinions in attempts to avoid the impending drama. I say to myself, "How can I word this comment I want to post about Diana Ross and avoid having that s#it starter lash back at me." Most of the time, I don't get negative and personal attacks for which I am appreciative.

I enjoy this forum and have learned it's best for me to ignore certain members and their responders.

[Lowell]

Dear Members of the SoulfulDetroit Motown forum,

There has been recent controversy with loud pronouncements of various members leaving and criticisms of Ralph’s moderation. So as the one who quietly behind the scenes has kept the site online for years, upgraded the software, dealt with the crashes, paid the bills and kept the doors open so that this great body of discussion can continue, I feel a need to speak.

1. I completely and unconditionally support and back Ralph in any decisions he makes. Period. I kindly ask that you do the same. We are honored to have this forum moderated by not only by a legend of the Detroit music scene but by a genuinely kind, fair and caring human being who always keeps his eye on the larger ball - a Detroit-centric music forum unequaled on the internet for its quality, depth and, yes, civility. This forum would not be the great body of knowledge it has become without him.

2. As many of you know I moderate the DetroitYES.com forum, now in its 16th year. Moderation is a very difficult and thankless task. I have been called every name in the book by the petulant who come to our free table, eat our food, drink our wine, then forget their manners, start fights, then whine when reprimanded. Until you stand in our shoes you cannot begin to understand how much we agonize over decisions to remove posts in violation of our clearly written rules and even more over a decision to remove a member. We hate it. It is a most unpleasant waste of our time certain to be followed by abusive responses. All we want and ask is for people to discuss the topics and be kind unto one another.

3. For those of you who choose to leave or are thinking of doing so please consider this. Take a random sample of all the discussion threads. You will find those with controversy very few, less than 2% when I do such such a poll. But, as the saying goes, “100,000 planes landing safely isn’t news.” Don’t let the few loud plane wreck threads distort your perspective of the overall value you have drawn from these years of discussion. If that still doesn’t satisfy you, well then, there is another saying, “Don’t let the door hitya where the good Lawd splitya.” Sorry to see you go. [And we know you will still be peeking in.]

I can see from discussion on this matter that the vast majority of you support Ralph and understand the difficulty he faces and are grateful for his patience. I ask that you continue your support. I ask that you don’t take troll bait. Yes, turn the other cheek, if need be. We’re only here for a short time. Let’s keep our eyes on the prize and out of the gutters of discord.
Thank you.
Lowell

[westgrandboulevard]

I'll echo those three last, simple words of yours.

Thank you, Lowell. :D

[soulster]

Again: it is not a requirement to like Diana Ross to be a member here. This is not a Diana Ross website! If someone expresses a dislike of Diana Ross, just ignore it and move on. Deal with it!

I've tried to start threads about different things but gave up. Not only did they usually get little or no responses, but they were always pushed out by the same old threads. There are more singers in the world, man! Can we talk about them too? Poor Stevie Wonder might drop in here and wonder why everyone forgot about him.

I come here for discussion about new releases that may be of interest to me. I like discussing a wide assortment of topics. And, I realize that most people don't know and don't care about how their music sounds, is created, or mastered, but there are a few of others who are like me on the forum that do.

[Roberta75]

Theres also anotther real good and effective solution and that is following the exact set of Ralphs rules from August of 2014 that were posted in this here forum. See below.

"Since I can't and won't ban any threads relating to all of the fine and talented women who are, or once were, part of the Supremes, I can play a little hard ball with anyone who creates a problem. Even the slightest. I will immediately delete the thread and PERMANENTLY ban the instigatorSo from this point on, any Supreme, Mary, Diana threads are to be interesting, informative and RESPECTFULL"

http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?12261-Okay-gang-here-is-the-new-deal

[soulster]

Expressing a dislike of Diana Ross is not in and of itself disrespectful. People have a right to that opinion.

[midnightman]

I'll say this last bit before I leave this alone but I always feel whenever a Supremes thread gets made, the usual suspects who wanna start turf wars don't help make this forum be pleasant at all. Makes me think I done wound up at ATRL or Lipstick Alley or even the Maryluvs board when it connected with Faith fans.

That's why when shit got too hectic here, I was sitting here like "f the Supremes and their fans" because I never saw this attention given to the other groups. In fact, I made many posts saying "oh compared to the Marvelettes, Ronettes, Shangri-Las, Shirelles, Patti/Bluebelles, Vandellas, the Supremes can't fit their heels" or whatever it was I was saying...

But that was only a ruse since I love the Supremes too. But people keep going on and going on and going on and going on with nothing being accomplished. Ralph is doing all he can to maintain order but some here can't help themselves. I'm with soulster on this.

The way I see it, Stevie and Marvin "ain't sh*t" if they're not Supremes... never see their threads get 100 replies. The Temptations are different because people actually make efforts to reminisce and talk about the Tempts but SW and MG don't get the same treatment. What's up with that?

[soulster]

Lowell pretty much says that we may be imagining that the place is overrun with Supremes/Ross threads, but on most days I come here, that is what I see. I hit the "new Posts" tab. That's how I read the forum. I don't click on individual sub-forums. So, those Ross/Supremes threads are getting the most foot-traffic and activity. Everything else is shoved to the bottomless pit. Right now, those of the Ross religion are laying low until this blows over. Then in a week or so, it will be back to business.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was all contained in the bad threads, but sometimes it spills over into the others.

This forum caused me to quit playing anything by the Supremes for years. I got some of the RCA/Funkytown remasters, but I can't enjoy them because the first thing that comes to mind is all the Ross fanaticism here. It's enough to make a preacher curse!

All I am asking is that the Supremes/Ross/Wilson/Payne fans lighten up a bit. Take it down a notch or two. Discover some other musical artist to listen to and talk about. Listen to some funk! Rick James, Stevie Wonder, Commodores...something other than those women! Discover something out of your usual listening habits.

[JL2648]

I've tried to start threads about different things but gave up. Not only did they usually get little or no responses, but they were always pushed out by the same old threads. There are more singers in the world, man! Can we talk about them too? Poor Stevie Wonder might drop in here and wonder why everyone forgot about him.


Soulster, you nailed it. I'm very much in the same boat. After a lot enthusiasm for this site at the start I've since lost a great deal of interest such that I rarely post any longer. There simply isn't much value. When often the 5, 6 or 7 of the top 10 threads at the top of this forum are Ross and/or Supremes related there is a problem. Diana and the Supremes were very much of the Motown story. I get that. But I can't imagine it is to the degree of imbalance reflected here.

[soulster]

Diana and the Supremes were very much of the Motown story. I get that. But I can't imagine it is to the degree of imbalance reflected here.

No, they didn't dominate the Motown story, and I grew up in the 60s and 70s.

This site could still be a lot of things, but those Ross/Supremes fans spoil it. Someone told me that they are all refugees from the old Yahoo Groups forum that got shut down because of all their fighting over Diana Ross and Mary Wilson, and they have made an effort to make this place the replacement forum. And, you can spot these people by their use of "Diane", "Miss Ross", and veiled attacks on Marv. The industry people who used to post here don't want that. They don't care about Evan and Ashlee.

[Roberta75]

No, they didn't dominate the Motown story, and I grew up in the 60s and 70s.

This site could still be a lot of things, but those Ross/Supremes fans spoil it. Someone told me that they are all refugees from the old Yahoo Groups forum that got shut down because of all their fighting over Diana Ross and Mary Wilson, and they have made an effort to make this place the replacement forum. And, you can spot these people by their use of "Diane", "Miss Ross", and veiled attacks on Marv. The industry people who used to post here don't want that. They don't care about Evan and Ashlee.

You need to avoid all Ross/Supremes related threads if thats how you realluy feel and take the blinders off when it comes to marv.

[blackguy69]

You need to avoid all Ross/Supremes related threads if thats how you realluy feel and take the blinders off when it comes to marv.

I wasn't going to say anything, but if that is the case, then maybe we should practice what we preach. If you didn't try to bait Marv maybe he wouldn't say a word. Let me point out the own your own Diana thread as an example isn't that right Roberta.

[Roberta75]

Dear Members of the SoulfulDetroit Motown forum,

There has been recent controversy with loud pronouncements of various members leaving and criticisms of Ralph’s moderation. So as the one who quietly behind the scenes has kept the site online for years, upgraded the software, dealt with the crashes, paid the bills and kept the doors open so that this great body of discussion can continue, I feel a need to speak.

1. I completely and unconditionally support and back Ralph in any decisions he makes. Period. I kindly ask that you do the same. We are honored to have this forum moderated by not only by a legend of the Detroit music scene but by a genuinely kind, fair and caring human being who always keeps his eye on the larger ball - a Detroit-centric music forum unequaled on the internet for its quality, depth and, yes, civility. This forum would not be the great body of knowledge it has become without him.

2. As many of you know I moderate the DetroitYES.com forum, now in its 16th year. Moderation is a very difficult and thankless task. I have been called every name in the book by the petulant who come to our free table, eat our food, drink our wine, then forget their manners, start fights, then whine when reprimanded. Until you stand in our shoes you cannot begin to understand how much we agonize over decisions to remove posts in violation of our clearly written rules and even more over a decision to remove a member. We hate it. It is a most unpleasant waste of our time certain to be followed by abusive responses. All we want and ask is for people to discuss the topics and be kind unto one another.

3. For those of you who choose to leave or are thinking of doing so please consider this. Take a random sample of all the discussion threads. You will find those with controversy very few, less than 2% when I do such such a poll. But, as the saying goes, “100,000 planes landing safely isn’t news.” Don’t let the few loud plane wreck threads distort your perspective of the overall value you have drawn from these years of discussion. If that still doesn’t satisfy you, well then, there is another saying, “Don’t let the door hitya where the good Lawd splitya.” Sorry to see you go. [And we know you will still be peeking in.]

I can see from discussion on this matter that the vast majority of you support Ralph and understand the difficulty he faces and are grateful for his patience. I ask that you continue your support. I ask that you don’t take troll bait. Yes, turn the other cheek, if need be. We’re only here for a short time. Let’s keep our eyes on the prize and out of the gutters of discord.
Thank you.
Lowell

Dear Lowell.

The only person I unconditionally back and fully supportt is my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Years ago I entered the way of the Lord by the narrow gate. Some beiieve that gate is wide and the way is easy but deceitful ways only leads to destruction, and those who turn their eyes to deceit and trickery are not fooling God but asking for his wrath on judgment day. The gate to Jesus is narrow and although entering the narrow gate is hard, it leads to everlasting life and eternal joy. Those who find it are few but those who find it are blessed. Ralph and Lowell, please open your eyes to the deception and lies of the one serpent in your midst whos tricks and games deceives you. If he is making large donations to the forum Id ask you to reject them and take these words from the scriptures to heart. Marv2 will ruin your forum if you dont open your eyes.

2 Corinthians 2:11 [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+2%3A11&version=ESV)
Do not be outwitted by Satan for we are not ignorant of his designs.

Revelation 12:9 [[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+12%3A9&version=ESV)
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

I send this in the name of Christ.

Roberta

[Roberta75]

I wasn't going to say anything, but if that is the case, then maybe we should practice what we preach. If you didn't try to bait Marv maybe he wouldn't say a word. Let me point out the own your own Diana thread as an example isn't that right Roberta.

I admit that error yes but if you believe hes innocent your are living on another planet dear.

[soulster]

You need to avoid all Ross/Supremes related threads if thats how you realluy feel and take the blinders off when it comes to marv.

The vitriol spills over into other threads. I don't wear blinders when it comes to Marv. I see where he can't resist getting into the act. I just don't care about any of it. I don't care who starts what. I don't care who said what about Diana Ross 100 years ago on some Youtube video. I don't care if not everyone loves the Supremes.

So, it would do everyone good if you all can just stop talking about Marv. Period. No hints, no innuendo. Nothing, Nada. Zip. Let it go! Ignore him like he never existed. And Marv: Don't respond to attacks. No comments about their sexual preferences, either.

Maybe a solution would be to cut post editing time down to a half an hour so offending peeps can't get a dig in, and then remove it before Ralph sees it. But, if it's already quoted, oh well...

We cannot stop anyone from reading or participating in any thread they like, or Ralph and Lowell won't.

I want Ross fans to quit introducing discussion about The Supremes or Diana Ross in threads that have nothing to do with them, and for Ross fans to not mislead or trick people into opening threads that are titled about one thing, but are really about Diana Ross or the Supremes. You can preview the first line of an opening post, but they can make it so that doing so still gives you no clue as to what it's really about until you click on it. That's bait and switch, and probably what Lowell sees when he takes an audit of the threads. When I see that, I know it's a Ross fan playing games.

We should be lucky that Ralph is such a forgiving teddy bear who looks for the redeeming qualities in people, because I know forums that don't give anyone a second chance to troll. One foul move and you are gone. And no having two accounts, either.

[soulwally]

I admit that error yes but if you believe hes innocent your are living on another planet dear.
Thanks for the voice of reason, Lowell. And continuing thanks to Ralph for his work as moderator.
First off, I'm going nowhere. Second off, I've seen these troublesome threads, haven't joined in [[have I turned the other cheek?), and dismissed the spats within as childish and not worthy of bothering about.
That's all you have to do... and enjoy the rest.

[blackguy69]

I didn't say he was innocent. But. I can ignore and move on. On a side note, I just posted a vandella thread and you being a huge Martha fan maybe you can post and give your opinion

[Roberta75]

The vitriol spills over into other threads. I don't wear blinders when it comes to Marv. I see where he can't resist getting into the act. I just don't care about any of it. I don't care who starts what. I don't care who said what about Diana Ross 100 years ago on some Youtube video. I don't care if not everyone loves the Supremes.

So, it would do everyone good if you all can just stop talking about Marv. Period. No hints, no innuendo. Nothing, Nada. Zip. Let it go! Ignore him like he never existed. And Marv: Don't respond to attacks. No comments about their sexual preferences, either.

We cannot stop anyone from reading or participating in any thread they like, or Ralph and Lowell won't.

I want Ross fans to quit introducing discussion about The Supremes or Diana Ross in threads that have nothing to do with them, and for Ross fans to not mislead or trick people into opening threads that are titled about one thing, but are really about Diana Ross or the Supremes. You can preview the first line of an opening post, but they can make it so that doing so still gives you no clue as to what it's really about until you click on it. That's bait and switch, and probably what Lowell sees when he takes an audit of the threads. When I see that, I know it's a Ross fan playing games.

We should be lucky that Ralph is such a forgiving teddy bear who looks for the redeeming qualities in people, because I know forums that don't give anyone a second chance to troll. One foul move and you are gone. And no having two accounts, either.

You care enough to keep bringing up Ross and the Supremes. Stop bringring both up my dear. Now Im done with Marv ive said my peice to Lowell and Ralph and thats the last ive got to say about him. I get the feeling youd love to comoderate this here forum am I right? If I am you need to stoip the hinting and come out and ask to be a moderrator.

[Roberta75]

I didn't say he was innocent. But. I can ignore and move on. On a side note, I just posted a vandella thread and you being a huge Martha fan maybe you can post and give your opinion

I just answered you in that thread.

[Koach]

Perhaps I have an ide to help. How about the Dr fans create their own board? I am one and have a forum. It is not very active but could change. I think it would benefit all.

[Sotosound]

Part of the problem as I see is it freedom of speech versus causing offence. Another part of the problem is that the good content goes the same way as the bad when a thread is deleted.

Perhaps there is a way, technology permitting.

Since deleting threads is a really drastic measure that can even serve to hide the problem; but since leaving those threads deemed as offensive untouched isn’t the solution either, why not have a forum dedicated to threads that would otherwise have been deleted?

It could be called anything you like but, in essence, when a thread gets to the point where under current conditions it’s time to delete it, perhaps it could be moved to this other forum instead, with a marker left in the original forum telling the reader where it went.

For audit and information purposes, one could even record the reason for moving the thread, e.g. a specific poster made a particular type of remark.

This would: -


Prevent threads with some good content in them such as the Freda Payne thread from being completely removed
Highlight offensive posts, who wrote them, and why they were moved.
Avoid any allegations of censorship since the thread is still around.
Allow the original forums to fulfil their original purposes.
Create a set of standards which are clear to see and which, therefore, could help inform the conduct of all posters.


The only downside that I can see is the possibility of arguments over whether or not a thread should have been moved. But, then again, there’s always a downside whatever one does.

[edafan]

the positives here farrrrrrrrrr more
than the negatives

I once stated that I thought James Brown did not have a good singing voice.
Then I heard him do a ballad.

So, I came back on here,
and I said I was wrong.

edafan

[midnightman]

Diana and the Supremes were very much of the Motown story.

The Temptations, Four Tops, Martha and the Vandellas, Mary Wells, Marvelettes, Smokey and the Miracles, Stevie, Marvin, the Jackson 5/MJ said "hello".

[REDHOT]

Soulster i'v enjoyed your post,a Ross fan playing games,you are on point,they play these games,because they know they are gonna get a reaction smh.

[soulster]

I admit that error yes but if you believe hes innocent your are living on another planet dear. If you are such a good christian who strives to follow the teachings of Jesus, you would let this stuff about Marv GO! Let it GO!

You don't bait Marv, and Marv: don't take the bait! It's that simple!

Damn!


Dear Lowell.

The only person I unconditionally back and fully supportt is my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Well then it looks like it's time for you to leave too!

[Roberta75]

If you are such a good christian who strives to follow the teachings of Jesus, you would let this stuff about Marv GO! Let it GO!

You don't bait Marv, and Marv: don't take the bait! It's that simple!

Damn!

Well then it looks like it's time for you to leave too!

Didnt you read my posting i said I was done with him. If only you were a moderator you could ban me.

[soulster]

You care enough to keep bringing up Ross and the Supremes. Stop bringring both up my dear. Now Im done with Marv ive said my peice to Lowell and Ralph and thats the last ive got to say about him. I get the feeling youd love to comoderate this here forum am I right? If I am you need to stoip the hinting and come out and ask to be a moderrator. I bring it up because that's what these damn problems are all about. That, and Marv baiting/bashing.

If I wanted to be a moderator, which I don't, the first thing i'd ask you to do is learn how to use a spell checker. I don't have time to babysit a bunch of grown men who would rather have slugfests.

[Roberta75]

I bring it up because that's what these damn problems are all about. That, and Marv baiting/bashing.

If I wanted to be a moderator, which I don't, the first thing i'd ask you to do is learn how to use a spell checker. I don't have time to babysit a bunch of grown men who would rather have slugfests.

For the third time im done with him. Fyi my post was adressed to Loewell. Not you. Second my computer doesnt have spell check and third kindly stop communicating with me.

[soulster]

Perhaps I have an ide to help. How about the Dr fans create their own board? I am one and have a forum. It is not very active but could change. I think it would benefit all.

Let's see if anyone of them take you up on that, Koach. But, I think they like Marv too much to give this place up.

[soulster]

If only you were a moderator you could ban me.
Lucky you!


Didnt you read my posting i said I was done with him.

We're holding you to it. We're all watching.

[Roberta75]

Lucky you!

LOL. Thanks

[imnokid]

There are no ulterior motives. I'm sure the individual you tacitly refer to is Marv. Well, guess what...there are others that like to try and push buttons here. It seems to me, Marv just gets singled out for everything by some that simply don't like the guy. I wish those that complain the loudest would bring to the table what Marv does on an almost daily basis. And because this is a FORUM, Marv is entitled to an opinion just as everyone is here. So...I wish some of you would quit complaining and ignore what you may not agree with. I really don't have time for all of this right now. I'm up to my neck in moving issues. If those of you that feel there is some problem I'm not addressing, I'm sorry. Maybe its best you go elsewhere and look for a forum that is free of charge that suits your needs better.

Well said Ralph. I don't say a lot around here, but I do know when I look about a bit, Marv is far from the only one who pushes his opinions. I say that this is a forum, open to all, and that no thread should ever be deleted and no one banned. If you read something you don't like, you have the choice of engaging or ignoring. OR, leave the Forum.

When I joined the forum years ago, there were many industry people who engaged here, which made it interesting to me. These days, it's the fans vs. the fans. Not so much fun.

[Methuselah2]

I've kept up with this thread and have been interested in the opinions, ideas, and perspectives expressed. I can't say I agree with everything that's been said but I acknowledge each person's right to say it. That, in itself, is what's at the center of--and the basis for--a chatboard.

The way a person chooses to express himself or herself is always up for grabs. Negative views and criticism have their place here, as well, and are worthwhile to me when the opinion is explained and truly examined by the poster. The manner in which such opinions are, at times, posted can unfortunately be jarring and off-putting, to say the least. But as such, it has no impact on me as far as how I might feel about the artists and their work being discussed, perhaps even targeted. Such manner of posting reflects only on one person--the poster. Surely there's not a poster on SDF who isn't aware of that.

The other issue running through this thread seems to be about the amount of posting and attention given to a certain handful of artists. Yes, it's noticeable but I think it's nothing more than "supply and demand." People are obviously starting threads about who and what interests them, and I think it's as simple as that. If you start a thread about someone or something that garners slight viewing or response, the demand for it might not have been there--but it was for those who viewed and responded. I don't think anyone can ask for, or expect, anything more. Since I've been on SDF, I've never come across a thread that's prevented me in any way from posting any thread of my own. And I certainly wouldn't like to see that change.

[soulster]

I've asked in the past: why aren't other people starting threads about artists that were not part of that female group? Because they know it would sink like an anvil, and the Supremes/Ross threads would stay at the top. They may ask, why waste the energy when no one is going to read or participate in their thread? If I start a thread that is geared toward the audio aspect of music, someone inevitably posts some snide remark about how no one cares. But, they sure care about whether you can see Diana Ross's bra strap!

Why are the industry people not posting anymore? They do not want to be around all the fighting. They don't want their names or their company associated with idle gossip about a 40-year-old spat between Ross and Ballard or something.

Every time one of these complaint/i'm leaving threads pop up, the Ross fanatics lay low for a week or two, and then, when it seems like the coast is clear, they come right back with the same old mess. Mark my words! It will happen again.

It used to be you could, say, talk about how the song "My Girl" by The Temptations was recorded, and Harry Weinger would come back with a detailed rundown of the notes! That's what SDF was about. Now if you get a thread about what happened to Hip-O, there are no industry people around.

No wonder the industry people would rather be on Twitter and Facebook.

[Methuselah2]

And so, what happens now? Well, perhaps this thread has served a real purpose. And for anyone who's been following it closely, maybe it would seem evident as to what all of us could take into consideration at this point to help the Forum thrive.

[[Except for me. I'm too focused on gowns right now.):)

[144man]

Redhot,
Thank you for your post. A voice of reason. And true, if one doesn't like what goes on here, then leave. Plain and simple.

And Marv is right, Bayou. Totally out of line to post his full name. I'm going to edit that out.

Surely anonymity is part of the problem here and on the internet in general.

Maybe if members had to use their real names instead of hiding behind their user identity, they would post in a more responsible manner and treat others with respect and in the same way that they would like others to treat them.

[Ngroove]

Hey everyone, Ngroove here....

I know, I'm not exactly as interactive much earlier, but just saying, I'm staying around. Myself, a total and utterly devotional "Motown Nut" for over fifteen-and-a-half years now and forever.

While I am aware of such arguements, or at the very lightest, disagreements, about "certain singers", I just wait til' "coast is clear". Don't worry, I still love those "certain singers" myself, still have my stacks and stacks of LPs and CDs of them, pretty much unconditionally, no matter what I hear / read about them.

But, I would love / highly appreciate more / other discussions, than just those "certain singers", as Motown, throughout its fifty-five year plus history, has been blessed with DOZENS and DOZENS of magnificent singers. Oh wait, I guess there is other threads. I'll take a look. I'll be discussing again somewhere on these good Soulful Detroit boards soon.

[soulster]

Surely anonymity is part of the problem here and on the internet in general.

Maybe if members had to use their real names instead of hiding behind their user identity, they would post in a more responsible manner and treat others with respect and in the same way that they would like others to treat them.

Says the poster called "144man". :)

The problem is that you're not going to get people to use their real names. There's no way that can even be enforced.

[soulster]

While I am aware of such arguements, or at the very lightest, disagreements, about "certain singers", I just wait til' "coast is clear". Don't worry, I still love those "certain singers" myself, still have my stacks and stacks of LPs and CDs of them, pretty much unconditionally, no matter what I hear / read about them.


You're OK, Ngroove. I never see you in the school lunchroom when the food fights start.

There's nothing wrong with being a fan of a certain group of singers. It's #1: when the crazies start their stupid cat-fights, and #2 dominate the discussion of the entire forum with endless, and useless gossip of a certain female group. It's the fault of the rest of the membership who doesn't make any effort to speak up against it, or who won't start or participate in threads about other artists and topics.

[woodward]

QUOTE: When I joined the forum years ago, there were many industry people who engaged here, which made it interesting to me. These days, it's the fans vs. the fans. Not so much fun.QUOTE.

We should all be grateful for Keith Hughes as he is still with us. He takes a lot of interest in the forum and I sometimes don't think members appreciate him as much as they should. He is a link to the past and our promise for the future. Thanks, Keith, for all you do for the Motown Forum. You are "simply the best."

[soulster]

We should all be grateful for Keith Hughes as he is still with us. He takes a lot of interest in the forum and I sometimes don't think members appreciate him as much as they should. He is a link to the past and our promise for the future. Thanks, Keith, for all you do for the Motown Forum. You are "simply the best."

And more of us would probably know who Keith Hughes is if there wasn't so much noise from the Diana Ross Tea Party.

[144man]

Says the poster called "144man". :)

The problem is that you're not going to get people to use their real names. There's no way that can even be enforced.

"144man" is my real name. 144 = a gross. My surname is "Grossman".

[arr&bee]

surely anonymity is part of the problem here and on the internet in general.

Maybe if members had to use their real names instead of hiding behind their user identity, they would post in a more responsible manner and treat others with respect and in the same way that they would like others to treat them.haaaaaaaaaa...144 you're a hoot,if i had to use my real name i'd have to leave the planet.

[soulster]

"144man" is my real name. 144 = a gross. My surname is "Grossman". No one would have figured that out.

[144man]

No one would have figured that out.

At least one member has. I think it might have been Tamla617 or Adrian.

[144man]

The only reason I have a user name is because of convention. I would have been quite happy to use my real name if everybody else did.

[Methuselah2]

144man - You came up with a great moniker. Perfect, I'd say!

[144man]

Thanks, Methuselah2, though I don't think I'd have chosen it if I'd realised it would put me first in the members' list.

I'm not sure whether your name came from your great age or from your preferred size of wine-bottles.

[Bluebrock]

The only reason I have a user name is because of convention. I would have been quite happy to use my real name if everybody else did.

Me too 144man!!

[snakepit]

I would but Rumpelstiltskin wouldn't be believed

[juicefree20]

As a long-time former whom hasn't visited here in quite awhile, I'm saddened to see that despite my long absence, that Ralph is still having to deal with the same issues, which involve the same people & that makes no sense to me at all.

I remember the days when certain people were considered to be a "problem" here & if only they would leave, life would be so much better here.

Well, guess what...just about all of those "problem" people are gone & yet, here Ralph is again, having to deal with the same nonsense & sad to say, it always tends to involve the same individuals, whom as the current "leaders" of the forum, could do more to allieviate some of the problems, rather than choosing to fight the same battles that they've been fighting before Soulful Detroit came into existence.

As one who has had his own disagreements, I would watch these firestorms constantly erupt & as a basically disinterested observer, I can honestly say that there are FEW innocents, but several people here who seem to enjoy helping to escalate matters & have been equally guilty of doing their best to keep the fires burning.

I've can barely count the number of times that I've been here over the last 2 or 3 years & the last time that I was here, was to post pictures of Blue Lovett's Memorial, where a person decided to make remarks, which I ignored. I ignored them because I know myself & nowadays, I tend not to waste my energy arguing with someone over the internet, when face-to-face conversation tends to bring about a completely different response from folks who behave quite differently when behind a monitor.

But once I saw Ralph mention something about "dissent", I automatically knew who was going to be involved, as well as what sparked the dissent.

I get it...Marv doesn't like Diana Ross. I also get it that the guys who don't him tend not to like Mary Wilson. I also get it that none of you like one another all that much. But I also get the fact & let's face it, the fact that this has continued to occur since the Motown Forum was created here, there are two sides who are bound & determined to keep the fights going. This is true because it happens every time & I believe that most relish the battle because of the intense dislike that you all have for one another.

Does anyone really believe that Marv is the ONLY problem in all of this? Now I don't really know Marv, except for The Ponderosa Stomp, we've never seen nor spoken with one another outside of SDF. Hell, we're not even Facebook Friends.

I've seen him say some things that he shouldn't have said & I've told him so. But I've also see quite a few write things which were designed to elicit a negative response from him. To that end, quite a few complaining about him are equally guilty of practicing the very same behavior which they complain about.

Seriously, check the archives & see how long this has been going on & why no one involved finds it to be ridiculous & simply just let it go, I'll never know.

But truthfully, it's not a one-way street, nor has it ever been & frankly, I believe that more than a few involved really get off on all of this, because most involved are quick to feed into it until it explodes into yet another argument & thread that has to be deleted.

Frankly, had I been Ralph, I'd have banned a few years ago, because since no one really wants to co-exist peacefully, without eventually taking digs at one another, there will never be any peace.

Sorry to be the one to say it [[not really) but Marv is not the only guilty party here. And if anyone really believes that if Marv leaves that the arguments will magically disappear, the evidence suggests that that's not true.

Once upon a time, the argument was that if Ralph would only ban a guy named Isaiah, that peace would reign, which proved to be untrue, because other arguments popped up, friends fell out, new "problem" people joined the forum & arguments continued to occur.

The problem lies less with anything that Ralph does & doesn't do, but rather more with the fact that a group of adults who for some reason unbeknownst to be or anything resembling logic, have decided to turn their music dislikes into some sort of holy crusade against one another.

For about 7 years now.

That Ralph really has to address a situation that grown folks choose not to, by either feeding the flame, or taking their sneaky pot shots of their own, is as ridiculous, as it is disingenuous.

And on the few occasions when I have come back or thought of posting pictures of a show here, it's the same old nonsense, involving the same old people. I just wish that all of you could just take a step back, forget that you're involved, then come back & read half of this stuff & imagine how it all looks to others.

I've been on Facebook trying to get some to come back & always speak highly of Soulful Detroit as a place with great knowledge about music . Then an artist whom I speak with stumbles across some stuff like this & wonder what in the world I'm talking about.

Most of us who've had disagreements here have had our disagreements & in most instances, have moved on, patched things up & made amends. But it's clear that that is not what is wanted here.

And so, it continues & sadly, some of those screaming the loudest, have the muddies hands & whatever's left in the archives verifies that as the truth.

Ralph deserves so much better than people constantly attempting to manipulate him to do their dirty work, when they could simply stop feeding into the nonsense simply because they can't help themselves from going back & forth with a guy who they don't like.

As I said, there are few innocents involved here. But truthfully, no one fights like this amongst one another unless they want to.

For seven YEARS??

That speaks for itself!

[juicefree20]

Now having said that, I'll also add this. I wish that EVERYONE would stop taking potshots at singers whom they don't like. That adds nothing of worth to any discussion & is unnecessary.

Get in where you fit in.

[juicefree20]

Soulster,

I agree with you 1000%. It was the same thing 5 years ago & here we are again & I've only been here once in the last 2 years.

Feels as though I never left & have picked up where the last argument left off.

[juicefree20]

BINGO!!! You definitely get it.

[juicefree20]

Agreed & I have said this on numerous occasions & even posted links which proved it.

[marv2]

BINGO!!! You definitely get it.

Hello Juice! How have you been man?

[juicefree20]

This is EXACTLY what I meant when I responded to your last message.

Now Ralph doesn't respond as you'd like for him to, then you make this great leap & accusation, accusing him of also bring a "Ross-hater". which is a pretty nasty & very unfair tactic for you to attempt to employ.

And sadly, as is the case just about everywhere these days, is par for the course.

Personally, I believe that you owe Ralph an apology.

[REDHOT]

I agree with you Juicefree and Soulster,it's the same people,with the drama and mess,they post these negative things,because they know,they are gonna get a reaction,when these people,get the negative reaction,they are looking for,i bet,they are gettin' a big laugh,out of it.you'll right Juice,they get some kind of sick kick out of it.playing nice,but really bein' nasty,it's all a sick game,to these people,who keep up mess and drama,[[not all)they go from post to post,just to start mess and drama,Marv is not a big Diana Ross fan,so what,he can like who ever he wants,i see the Diana fans gang up on him tho,and Marv will defend himself,i'v said it many times,i love all The Supremes Mary Florence Diana Cindy Jean Lynda Scherrie and Susaye,everyone has an opinion, but some people here are here,just to be nasty and vindictive,pretending,grown people smh,Ralph you Rock

[soulster]

Excellent post, Juice [[BTW, how have you been?)!

To be blunt, the only way this situation will end is for Ralph to ban the next person[[s) who start something. It's a shame he has to do this to grown people, but if people are going to act like children, they should be dealt with like children.

[Bokiluis]

Unfortunately, I always approach The Forum, cautiously. Thanks to a couple of personal emails from Ralph, I continue but try and limit my participation. There can be a current of negativity that is very disheartening. But at the end of the day, The Forum remains an excellent source of breaking news. If you come with a commitment to civility...you can only hope you receive it in return.
If there are topics or personalities that don't appeal to you, it is your choice to ignore or delete. If on the other hand, one cannot control the temptation to say something negative.....try and consider what a cost it is to the harmony of The Forum.

[soulster]

Unfortunately, I always approach The Forum, cautiously. Thanks to a couple of personal emails from Ralph, I continue but try and limit my participation. There can be a current of negativity that is very disheartening. But at the end of the day, The Forum remains an excellent source of breaking news. If you come with a commitment to civility...you can only hope you receive it in return.
If there are topics or personalities that don't appeal to you, it is your choice to ignore or delete. If on the other hand, one cannot control the temptation to say something negative.....try and consider what a cost it is to the harmony of The Forum. I agree. But, let's see how long this peace lasts. I give it two weeks tops.

[stingbeelee]

Were some of the posts deleted? Posts number 130, 131, 133 it seems that Juicefree is talking to someone?

[midnightman]

Were some of the posts deleted? Posts number 130, 131, 133 it seems that Juicefree is talking to someone?

I think so... it makes Juice look like he's talking to himself.

[carole cucumber]

Were some of the posts deleted? Posts number 130, 131, 133 it seems that Juicefree is talking to someone?


I think so... it makes Juice look like he's talking to himself.

I read the the messages right after Juicefree posted them. There were no posts deleted in between.
To me, it appears that juicefree was responding after his initial post on the subject [[06:05 P.M., 10-01-2015, # 127) to various posts that preceded his without utilizing the Reply With Quote feature.

[jillfoster]

Everything we see here is by the time and generosity of Ralph and if you don't like it, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya! Simple as that. Anyone who thinks someone "important" avoids this forum because of people's dicussions is delusional. They aren't in here because they move on to other things, or don't have time to be here anymore. I got a news bulletin for you all, considering all these "vip's" that you guys keep referring to as leaving lived through the 1968 riots and all the hoo-ha and drama that working in the music business entails, I don't think anybody is gonna be scared off by a few fans talkin smack. Give me a damn break. So put up or shut up, and get over your damn selves. And I myself would love to see a little more discussion on Gladys Knight. Lady deserves more credit than what she gets, I can see why she's Ralph's favorite.

[Bluebrock]

Everything we see here is by the time and generosity of Ralph and if you don't like it, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya! Simple as that. Anyone who thinks someone "important" avoids this forum because of people's dicussions is delusional. They aren't in here because they move on to other things, or don't have time to be here anymore. I got a news bulletin for you all, considering all these "vip's" that you guys keep referring to as leaving lived through the 1968 riots and all the hoo-ha and drama that working in the music business entails, I don't think anybody is gonna be scared off by a few fans talkin smack. Give me a damn break. So put up or shut up, and get over your damn selves. And I myself would love to see a little more discussion on Gladys Knight. Lady deserves more credit than what she gets, I can see why she's Ralph's favorite.
She's also my favourite!! We do discuss her from time to time but feel free to start up some more threads and i will be sure to contribute.

[midnightman]

I agree, Jill! More attention needs to be giving to the Empress of Soul. :)

[soulster]

Anyone who thinks someone "important" avoids this forum because of people's dicussions is delusional. They aren't in here because they move on to other things, or don't have time to be here anymore. I got a news bulletin for you all, considering all these "vip's" that you guys keep referring to as leaving lived through the 1968 riots and all the hoo-ha and drama that working in the music business entails, I don't think anybody is gonna be scared off by a few fans talkin smack. Give me a damn break. So put up or shut up, and get over your damn selves. And I myself would love to see a little more discussion on Gladys Knight. Lady deserves more credit than what she gets, I can see why she's Ralph's favorite.
You're wrong. I've seen this happen repeatedly on other forums. Industry people leave because they do not care to be in a crazy environment. I have had active name engineers personally tell me this.

[Methuselah2]

From having kept up with this thread, it seems to me that it's winding down.

So where are we now?

Don't see a thread you're interested in?
Well, then, why not start one?

See threads that you would rather not?
Well, then, why not avoid them?

Concerned your thread might not receive much viewing or response?
Well, that's part of the nature of threads . . . and the membership. Some are not motivated to respond or feel the need to. Some might want to avoid arguments and criticism that sometimes ensues. Others might have other reasons of which there could be many. It's just the way it is.

And how 'bout those arguments and criticism?
Well, can't they still be made in a way that doesn't inflame, attack, and seem pointed to hurt? There's still room for opinion and disagreement. Without all that has often been a part of it.

This thread began about people leaving. I don't take members choosing to leave the Forum lightly. And I hope they will soon choose to return. From time to time, I question things about the Forum just as anyone else might. And at times, it's more than I want. But for all the other many, many times, it's what I want--interesting, informative, insightful, entertaining, and, yes, fun. It's always at its best when members are at theirs.

[soulster]

. . . and the membership. Some are not motivated to respond or feel the need to. Some might want to avoid arguments and criticism that sometimes ensues.

Then, what is the friggin' point of even being a member of a forum if you aren't going to participate? Think long and hard on that one.


And how 'bout those arguments and criticism?
Well, can't they still be made in a way that doesn't inflame, attack, and seem pointed to hurt?

If one is diplomatic and non-confrontational in their posts, one can conduct an intelligent, and, yes, constructively critical post without being abrasive. The problem with this forum, and a lot of others i've been a member on over the last two decades, is that many seem to be incapable of that.

[Methuselah2]

Soulster - Each member decides for himself or herself the degree to which they choose to participate. That's the point. If someone has decided that he or she has nothing to add to the conversation--for whatever reasons--I accept that.

In regard to your second point, I don't think anything can be done to correct what's past--but to learn from it as one goes forward. Who's incapable of that?

[soulster]

Soulster - Each member decides for himself or herself the degree to which they choose to participate. That's the point. If someone has decided that he or she has nothing to add to the conversation--for whatever reasons--I accept that.

In regard to your second point, I don't think anything can be done to correct what's past--but to learn from it as one goes forward. Who's incapable of that?

Another reason industry pros are loathe to post on message boards is because if they say or do the wrong thing, like misrepresent information, or become personal [[after all, they are human), they could be legally liable, and face consequences from their employer as a result. Which brings me to another reason: some companies forbid their employees and contractors to represent themselves in non-approved sites.

Here's just another reason industry people will not participate on message boards like this:
http://home.cableone.net/news/read/category/Entertainment/article/the_associated_press-appeals_court_clears_way_for_trial_over_dancing_ba-ap

What I stated about why pros do not participate stands and is true. How many industry pros have you personally communicated with?

To your other reply: To my mind, there is no logical reason to join a forum if one has no intention of participating. It's a waste of that person't time, and makes no logical sense. I know that many people, especially those new to computers or smartphones, tend to join anything and everything, download all kinds of apps they don't need, but, then loose interest.

Maybe it has to do with personality. Perhaps you and I, and other frequent participants, are made of sterner stuff, while the rest are vary passive. I say: if you want to keep the Diana Ross/Mary Wilson [[yeah, I wrote their names) fans from dominating the place, post more about other things, and speak up. And, already, this morning, i'm seeing an uptick in those threads again. The other topics are giving it a go, but how long before my earlier prediction comes true?

[Methuselah2]

Soulster - I'm not sure what exactly you mean by 'industry pro'. Any discussion I may have had with a member about how they feel about SDF would have been personal and private and, as such, would remain so. I understand that you feel comfortable speaking for other people; I, however, do not.

As far as what makes 'logical sense' to you regarding what others do with their technical equipment and why they join chat groups, I couldn't begin to answer. But as far as your own concept of 'logical sense' goes, I certainly wasn't able to follow it as your above posting moved from taking issue with members for not participating to issues with members who have participated by starting some new threads.

There seems to me to be plenty of room for participation or for just viewing, as the case may be. And there also seems to be plenty of room for anyone's thread without infringing on anyone else's space or time.

[soulster]

Soulster - I'm not sure what exactly you mean by 'industry pro'.

I already explained that in an earlier post. An industry pro is someone who worked in the record/music/audio industry. They can be active or retired, and the type of pro I am specifically referring to are the active ones such as Andy Skurow and Harry Weinger. My communications have been with one of those two, including others who have appeared on this forum, and others who haven't, and are currently working in the industry, one who has worked on major Motown albums in the 70s. But, my point is that you don't see them much or at all on run of the mill music, audio, and fan-type forums anymore because of hostile members, silly crap like that which occurs here with the Ross/Wilson wars, and the Marv bashing. You can find a lot of these people on Facebook, though. That way, they can network with their peers, and represent their companies in a legitimate, and corporate-sanctioned way. And, if they do pop up on message boards, it is usually only to correct gross mis-information. Also, there's no stopping people from registering under aliases, which means, if they're good, no one would suspect them.

The retired guys can, as you insist, do whatever they want.


Any discussion I may have had with a member about how they feel about SDF would have been personal and private and, as such, would remain so. I understand that you feel comfortable speaking for other people; I, however, do not.

I have not disclosed who I have communicated with here, and would not unless I got their permission.


As far as what makes 'logical sense' to you regarding what others do with their technical equipment and why they join chat groups, I couldn't begin to answer. But as far as your own concept of 'logical sense' goes, I certainly wasn't able to follow it as your above posting moved from taking issue with members for not participating to issues with members who have participated by starting some new threads.

That's not my fault you aren't following what I am saying.


There seems to me to be plenty of room for participation or for just viewing, as the case may be. And there also seems to be plenty of room for anyone's thread without infringing on anyone else's space or time.

My point is that there is no point joining here if you don't plan on participating. Anyone can read the place without joining.

[Methuselah2]

Soulster - I think it's reasonable to assume that when people first chose to join, it was with the possibility that they might want to post at some point and needed membership to do so. But whether or not they have posted since joining, or infrequently, or not at all is simply their choice. And so for me, it's not an issue that I could discuss in either a negative or positive light. Why would you want to if you respect members?

As to being able to follow your arguments, I wasn't able to follow what you called the 'logical sense' of taking issue with people for not participating and also taking issue with people who do participate--specifically, those who have recently posted new threads about people or subjects [[i.e., Supremes/Ross) that you would prefer they didn't. It's a stance that doesn't seem logical to me--in a very basic way at cross-purposes.

From what you've been saying, I sense your loss about some of the Forum's 'voices' that no longer or very rarely appear here. That's understandable. But what I think you're asking for isn't--and that is control. With a basically totally open forum that's available to anyone who wants it, I don't think the controls that you would like in place can be attained, and certainly not maintained. And if they could be, I doubt that I would look forward to this site as I currently do.

If you would like the last word in our go-round, it's yours for the taking.

[soulster]

But what I think you're asking for isn't--and that is control. With a basically totally open forum that's available to anyone who wants it, I don't think the controls that you would like in place can be attained, and certainly not maintained.


As one who has been on many other forums, I say some of the more unsavory aspects of this forum can be curtailed. But, we heard the mods: nothing will change.


If you would like the last word in our go-round, it's yours for the taking.

I don't need a last word. It is nice that the two of us, who often find ourselves on opposite sides of issues, can still have a civil discussion without it turning into a war.

[juicefree20]

Sorry about that guys, it shows you how behind the curve I am here. I hit "reply" beneath certain comments, believe that it would appear below them as it does on Facebook. Indeed, it does appear as though I'm having a one-way conversation with myself!

For what it's worth, I was addressing Rick, for writing that Ralph "hates" Diana Ross because he won't chop off Marv's head. I believe that what he wrote was more than a little unfair & I believe that Ralph deserves an apology from him.

I replied "Bingo" to the ones who understand that the nonsense has been a two-way street & is not just attributable to Marv. I've been here since the end of 2003 & I've seen it all & again, there's blame on both sides.

I've always believed that what someone does elsewhere, belongs kept outside of these doors & I recall a situation a few years back, when folks wanted Marv banned for something that he said on Youtube.

While I don't agree with his opinion of Diana Ross, that's his business & he has the right to feel however he wants to feel about her. But as long as he didn't bring it here, neither should anyone else have brought it here.

Having said that, I do wish that he'd simply allow the Diana Ross folks to enjoy their conversations about Diana Ross. On the other hand, I wish that they too, would stop taking their own potshots, which are not as slick, nor as veiled as they believe them to be. I've also seen Marv called out in threads in which he had made no comments whatsoever.

We call that "taunting" & if that's not a deliberate attempt to start a fire, I don't know what is. This was about 2 or 3 years ago & when I pointed that out, one of our more esteemed members came up with this whole ridiculous premise about how Marv, Ralph & myself were conspiring together, which is why to this day, I have no respect whatsoever for this former & have never addressed him since & very little before, because I don't like people who pretend to be "innocent", yet when you really look at how they try to use a velvet glove, their behavior is no better than the person who they call "troublemaker".

Then too, we've had conversations about other artists, only to have these same people impose by bringing up Diana Ross, when the thread has nothing to do with her, which is just as annoying to the rest of us, as Marv doing it to them.

[juicefree20]

Soulster, everything's alright, thank you for asking.

My mom passed away at the end of June, so, it was a bit hectic both before & after her passing.

As to what you said about entertainers visiting here, I'm sad to say that you are correct about that. I said the same thing a few years ago & the usual voices who simply want to keep behaving as they do basically shrugged it off.

Being that I'm not limited to Motown, nor any ONE specific group, I can guarantee you that I either know, or have been around literally hundreds more artists than they are & speak with them. Many of them are my friends or reasonably close acquaintances, meaning that while we may not see each other or speak on the phone often, we know one another when we see one another [[usually at shows) & we do talk.

I've always been on a Facebook crusade to try to get some of our old forumers to participate, but they are tired of having to see the same 20 year-old argument[[s), continually playing out here.

And the weird thing is that most of us who once had disagreements, have long since patched thing up. Life's just too short for that kind of nonsense. Seriously, who has time to argue with anyone for 7 or 8 years about the same thing, over & over again?

People can blame who they want to, but when they're willing participants in 7 years worth of arguments over something that's just not that serious, then that speaks far louder than any denials that they attempt to make.

Again, this isn't about justifying the behavior of anyone, Marv or otherwise. The point is that there are few innocents & both give as good as they take.

Now Ralph is a pretty perceptive guy, which is why he handles things as he does & he has the patience of a saint. But if he were to give them what they want & let's face it, Marv & others have been banished & allowed to return [[including a few on the opposite side of the fence), a few of them would be following Marv right out the door.

I said it before & I honestly believe that these arguments are less about The Supremes & more about grown folks who act like kids, loving being on center stage with assorted histrionics. Obsession of any kind doesn't strike me as being emotionally healthy, but maybe that's just me.

And a look at the archives suggests this to be true.

[juicefree20]

Soulster,

You are also correct when you speak about people not creating threads. You're quite accurate about that.

Being in N.Y., I understand if people don't care about the groups from here, But I remember creating threads about The Four Tops, only to have people downplay them because Levi was no longer in the group. Same thing with threads about The Dramatics, The Spinners, Enchantment, Carl Carlton, Bettye LaVette & other Detroit artists.

What's the point of taking the time to post a bunch of pictures, when it appears as though people just want to talk about the same 2 or 3 artists?

And even at that, some thoughtless person would feel compelled to inject negativity into the proceedings, by pointing out that "so & so isn't the same" or something to disparage the current line-up.

Funny, but you don't hear Rolling Stones fans, or fans of The Greatful Dead doing that sort of thing. But we always have had that one or 2 who'd rather discuss Aretha's weight, or who lost a bit of their upper register & other personal crap & frankly, it does get tiring.

Which is why I find it ridiculous when some of these same folks who inject negativity into discussions of other artists, get so beside themselves if someone suggests that they didn't like "Bad Weather" or some other song sung by Diana Ross & The Supremes.

I like a lot of groups & artists & I can honestly tell you that to my ears, even Sam Cooke & Jackie Wilson hit a few pop-ups in their day & James Brown was my favorite & I can freely admit that he had more than his share of clunkers.

So again, your remarks are on point, as I've spoken to several folks, including many of those who were highly respected here because of what they'd accomplished in music. And they always come back to one thing...the same old people having the same old arguments & snarky remarks, who have no tolerance for anyone who doesn't love their favorite artist[[s), as much as they do.

And that's the sentiment spoken to me by artists & family members right there in Detroit.

Which won't stop even one of the participants from behaving as they do.

It won't because the reality is that they seem to believe that they're bigger than this forum & in fact, we should be happy that they bother to grace us with the same old discussions about the beads on the gown shown on whatever LP cover & that we're allowed to watch them beat the hell out of one another on this forum.

If they truly cared about THIS forum as they claim that they do, then there's no way in hell that after returning here after what's been pretty much a two-year absence, I'd be seeing the same old fights involving the same old names.

That speaks volumes more than anything that anyone could possibly say.

Ralph & all of the rest of you deserve better than this.

[marv2]

Juice, I miss your great photos man.

[soulster]

Soulster,

You are also correct when you speak about people not creating threads. You're quite accurate about that.


Juice, thank you for being one of the very few around here who understand where i'm coming from, and also see exactly what I see on this forum.

Some of that bunch of members want Marv banned here because he has an opinion on Diana Ross, and allegedly said something about gays on a YouTube video years ago. Well, he didn't do it here, and he is entitled to his opinion about any artist he wants to comment on. That is not against the forum rules. If I say that I can't stand Ross as a person, and think several of her Motown albums are terrible, I have that right to say it. I did not break any rules, and the Ross brigade will just have to deal with it. After all, I didn't say it about any members. If I had that would be against the forum rules. But, they do that all the time to Marv, and I see it all the time.

So, why does the Ross Brigade keep bringing up Marv? I was told by someone here that these Ross fans brought in reinforcements to try to rid this place of Marv by taunting him. I was told that since Ralph won't ban Marv, that their plan was to ruin this place and force Ralph into shutting this place down by posting endless Diana Ross threads and posts. I am seriously starting to believe this from what i've seen for years.

You also mentioned artists. I mentioned producers and recording engineers. They just aren't here anymore because of this Ross mess. Tom Moulton, Bob Olhsson, Harry Weinger...where are they? They don't want to deal with that mess. Russ Terrana, Ralph's twin brother, probably doesn't even want to step foot in here.

[midnightman]

I hadn't thought of it, soulster, but I definitely see a pattern! It hit me a few years ago, but now I can see some fans [[well stans, really, I'm a fan of Diana, not a stan lol) that would give "hints" in their Diana threads. It stands out like a sore thumb because whenever Marv makes his posts, he don't "go there" so to speak, he keeps it on topic. When he talks about Mary or the other Supremes, he don't bring up Diana unless the stans come... that's when I realized it was a bigger issue than Marv saying anything negative towards Diana... it wasn't Marv that drove that many members out of here...

[stingbeelee]

Hi Juice, thanks for the explanation! I was a little confused, but you have cleared it up. I agree with your comments 100% & I think that Ralph is doing a whiz-bang job as moderator!

[soulster]

Yup, it looks like that is their real motivation, to disrupt this place to punish Ralph for not getting rid of Marv, and it's working. Another member said that he has a new forum for the Ross fans so they don't have to post here, but, they are still here. Why? Marv?

[ralpht]

Soulster,
Thanks for giving me something to think about. I'll keep an eye out. If I see something funny I'll just zap it. I will not let a few idiots come on and try and ruin this forum.

[soulster]

I hadn't thought of it, soulster, but I definitely see a pattern! It hit me a few years ago, but now I can see some fans [[well stans, really, I'm a fan of Diana, not a stan lol) that would give "hints" in their Diana threads. It stands out like a sore thumb because whenever Marv makes his posts, he don't "go there" so to speak, he keeps it on topic. When he talks about Mary or the other Supremes, he don't bring up Diana unless the stans come... that's when I realized it was a bigger issue than Marv saying anything negative towards Diana... it wasn't Marv that drove that many members out of here...

Yes, it's about slandering gays. This has nothing to do with Diana Ross or Mary Wilson. That's just a proxy for the real reason. It's all about what Marv allegedly said in a YouTube video about gays, a video they say he has long since deleted. The Ross fans have made numerous references to this over the years, and I suspect the reason no one else addresses this is because they don't want to be seen as homophobic.

[Koach]

I only meant to present a possible solution with offering a link to my forum. I would like to see a forum, where people can discuss D.R./The Supremes without the amount of hatred that has appeared here. There was another forum that went south, and it no longer exists. It was called Diana Web or something like that. If anyone is interested, you can PM me.

[juicefree20]

Hey Marv,

How have you been? Thanks for the kind words.

As I've said, Soulful Detroit is never far from my heart & mind, but due to my mother's health & taking care of my sister, I had to scale back on running to show, as mom came first. So there wasn't much to post that would be of interest here, as most of the group that I was covering were local here in the N.Y. area.

But the last time that I did come here to post pictures of Blue Lovett's Memorial, there was a bit of a misunderstanding & rather than respond to what was posted, knowing that my patience was very short, I simply said, forget it & just left it at that.

Another things was that since the last overhaul, it was harder to post pictures as we once did. It seemed as though there was a limit to the number of pictures that you could upload & I tend to upload a lot of pictures.

But my plan is to come back & post pictures of events. It actually bugs me to have to post pictures to Facebook. While it has its good points, it's just not Soulful Detroit.

Personally, no one's really gotten under my skin enough to use the "ignore" button, when I can use some self control & simply ignore a post that I'm not to crazy about.

I'll continue to try to recruit music fans, both old & new to come here. If more of them come here to discuss music, that can counteract the few problems that we do have.

Either way, I believe that it's worth a try, which is why despite anything or anyone, I refuse to say anything disparaging about this place, where no matter how far I go, will always be a place that I consider to be home.

[marv2]

Hey Marv,

How have you been? Thanks for the kind words.

As I've said, Soulful Detroit is never far from my heart & mind, but due to my mother's health & taking care of my sister, I had to scale back on running to show, as mom came first. So there wasn't much to post that would be of interest here, as most of the group that I was covering were local here in the N.Y. area.

But the last time that I did come here to post pictures of Blue Lovett's Memorial, there was a bit of a misunderstanding & rather than respond to what was posted, knowing that my patience was very short, I simply said, forget it & just left it at that.

Another things was that since the last overhaul, it was harder to post pictures as we once did. It seemed as though there was a limit to the number of pictures that you could upload & I tend to upload a lot of pictures.

But my plan is to come back & post pictures of events. It actually bugs me to have to post pictures to Facebook. While it has its good points, it's just not Soulful Detroit.

Personally, no one's really gotten under my skin enough to use the "ignore" button, when I can use some self control & simply ignore a post that I'm not to crazy about.

I'll continue to try to recruit music fans, both old & new to come here. If more of them come here to discuss music, that can counteract the few problems that we do have.

Either way, I believe that it's worth a try, which is why despite anything or anyone, I refuse to say anything disparaging about this place, where no matter how far I go, will always be a place that I consider to be home.

Well I really do miss your pictures and postings here. I will be in Detroit tomorrow for Al Abrams funeral [[don't know about any pictures yet). You are big part of this forum and I hope you stay around more. I do however understand about family concerns.

[juicefree20]

Soulster,

As far as trying to destroy THIS forum, you're 100% correct about that & actually, it was once brazenly stated.

And all of this indeed stems from crap that happened outside of Soulful Detroit, but it was dragged here. All that anyone really needs to know about this, is the fact that people went as far as posting people's government names [[which is a definite no-no) & trying to e-mail forumers viruses. And that was done RIGHT HERE. Anyone remember any of that?

And the same nonsense that happens here led to that Motown Group being shut down.

And despite suddenly having nowhere to go, Ralph & Lowell supplied them a home here & one would think that people would appreciate that, wouldn't one?

And as evidenced here far too many times, you'd be dead wrong, as there's no appreciation for the gesture made by Ralph & Lowell.

What you DO see, are the same arguments, the same throwing of rocks while hiding one's hands & worst of all, insults being tossed Ralph's way because he won't ban Marv for doing the exact same crap that they've been doing. It's kinda like a "hit-dog holler" type of thing & most disappointing, are the so called "sane" voices of the forum who have done this. And I call out no names, as the archives speak with more authority than I do.

And back then & I won't call out anyone's name, the idea was that either Marv goes, or this forum goes.

And when you think about it, whenever we've had a former who didn't march lockstep with the thoughts of some, or even challenged some, there has always been a faction who'd announce that either "so & so goes, or I go", which isn't exactly the kind of behavior that one would expect from people who claim to "love" this forum.

Frankly, all that I see are a bunch of adults, who operating NOT out of love for any particular artist, but more out of self-interest & truthfully, believing that THEY are the stars, who are more than happy to engage in & start arguments, where no arguments exist. And like the kid in school who'd taunt & incite other kids, then hide behind the dean & fire is returned.

That's really what's going on here & think about this too...some of the very same people complaining about Marv, are some of the very same people who tried to give people computer viruses & other nasty little things such as that.

So when you think about it, how can anyone who'd do things such as that, ever try to prop themselves up as "innocents".

Sorry, but it just doesn't pass the sniff test.

Again, do I wish that Marv wouldn't respond & say nasty shit about Diana Ross? You betcha I do. But on the other hand, I also wish that they'd put away their daggers which are always aimed at Mary Wilson because she wrote a book that upset Diana Ross fans [[as though they were roadies with the group & really knew what went on behind the scenes) & because Mary doesn't like her.

This is some crap that my 5 year-old grandson doesn't even do & the idea that a 5 year-old is infinitely more mature than a group of 40-60 year-old guys should give everyone cause to pause.

But we know that's not going to happen. And they're saved due to the fact that Motown & The Supremes are a big part of musical history & therefore belong on a Soul Music forum based in Detroit. So eliminating that section is unthinkable.

And they know it, which is why they continue to act like they do because the evidence suggests that they believe themselves to be bigger than the moderator, bigger than other members & definitely bigger than this forum.

Because if they didn't, they could never continue to act they way that they do. Seriously, for 6 or 7 years & counting?

That says a lot & nothing good at all. And shame on the "legitimate" people who subscribe to the madness, calling for the head of one person, while never calling out their buddies who've been doing the same damn thing for years. But Ralph is the one who's wrong.

I don't think so.

[juicefree20]

I only meant to present a possible solution with offering a link to my forum. I would like to see a forum, where people can discuss D.R./The Supremes without the amount of hatred that has appeared here. There was another forum that went south, and it no longer exists. It was called Diana Web or something like that. If anyone is interested, you can PM me.

Koach, no harm, no foul. But sadly, were that to be the case, unless you refuse to admit people whom they don't like, the results will be similar.

Which is why the former Motown Group is no longer in existence.

Sadly, hate seems to last longer than love.

[marv2]

Soulster,

As far as trying to destroy THIS forum, you're 100% correct about that & actually, it was once brazenly stated.

And all of this indeed stems from crap that happened outside of Soulful Detroit & all that anyone really needs to know about this, is the fact that people went as far as posting people government names [[which is a definite no-no) & the same nonsense that happens here led to that Motown Group being shut down.

And despite suddenly having nowhere to go, Ralph & Lowell supplied them a home here & one would think that people would appreciate that, wouldn't one?

And as evidenced here far too many times, you'd be dead wrong, as there's no appreciation for the gesture made by Ralph & Lowell.

What you DO see, are the same arguments, the same throwing of rocks while hiding one's hands & worst of all, insults being tossed Ralph's way because he won't ban Marv for doing the exact same crap that they've been doing. It's kinda like a "hit-dog holler" type of thing & most disappointing, are the so called "sane" voices of the forum who have done this. And I call out no names, as the archives speak with more authority than I do.

And back then & I won't call out anyone's name, the idea was that either Marv goes, or this forum goes.

And when you think about it, whenever we've had a former who didn't march lockstep with the thoughts of some, or even challenged some, there has always been a faction who'd announce that either "so & so goes, or I go", which isn't exactly the kind of behavior that one would expect from people who claim to "love" this forum.

Frankly, all that I see are a bunch of adults, who operating NOT out of love for any particular artist, but more out of self-interest & truthfully, believing that THEY are the stars, who are more than happy to engage in & start arguments, where no arguments exist. And like the kid in school who'd taunt & incite other kids, then hide behind the dean & fire is returned.

That's really what's going on here & think about this too...some of the very same people complaining about Marv, are some of the very same people who tried to give people computer viruses & other nasty little things such as that.

So when you think about it, how can anyone who'd do things such as that, ever try to prop themselves up as "innocents".

Sorry, but it just doesn't pass the sniff test.

Again, do I wish that Marv wouldn't respond & say nasty shit about Diana Ross? You betcha I do. But on the other hand, I also wish that they'd put away their daggers which are always aimed at Mary Wilson because she wrote a book that upset Diana Ross fans [[as though they were roadies with the group & really knew what went on behind the scenes) & because Mary doesn't like her.

This is some crap that my 5 year-old grandson doesn't even do & the idea that a 5 year-old is infinitely more mature than a group of 40-60 year-old guys should give everyone cause to pause.

But we know that's not going to happen. And they're saved due to the fact that Motown & The Supremes are a big part of musical history & therefore belong on a Soul Music forum based in Detroit. So eliminating that section is unthinkable.

And they know it, which is why they continue to act like they do because the evidence suggests that they believe themselves to be bigger than the moderator, bigger than other members & definitely bigger than this forum.

Because if they didn't, they could never continue to act they way that they do. Seriously, for 6 or 7 years & counting?

That says a lot & nothing good at all. And shame on the "legitimate" people who subscribe to the madness, calling for the head of one person, while never calling out their buddies who've been doing the same damn thing for years. But Ralph is the one who's wrong.

I don't think so.

Soulster is 1000% correct. They use to post about their intentions to disrupt Soulful Detroit on another website.

[juicefree20]

Juice, thank you for being one of the very few around here who understand where i'm coming from, and also see exactly what I see on this forum.

Some of that bunch of members want Marv banned here because he has an opinion on Diana Ross, and allegedly said something about gays on a YouTube video years ago. Well, he didn't do it here, and he is entitled to his opinion about any artist he wants to comment on. That is not against the forum rules. If I say that I can't stand Ross as a person, and think several of her Motown albums are terrible, I have that right to say it. I did not break any rules, and the Ross brigade will just have to deal with it. After all, I didn't say it about any members. If I had that would be against the forum rules. But, they do that all the time to Marv, and I see it all the time.

So, why does the Ross Brigade keep bringing up Marv? I was told by someone here that these Ross fans brought in reinforcements to try to rid this place of Marv by taunting him. I was told that since Ralph won't ban Marv, that their plan was to ruin this place and force Ralph into shutting this place down by posting endless Diana Ross threads and posts. I am seriously starting to believe this from what i've seen for years.

You also mentioned artists. I mentioned producers and recording engineers. They just aren't here anymore because of this Ross mess. Tom Moulton, Bob Olhsson, Harry Weinger...where are they? They don't want to deal with that mess. Russ Terrana, Ralph's twin brother, probably doesn't even want to step foot in here.

Soulster, I was here before the Motown section was created. And yes, we had a few firestorm, but none of them continued for more than 5 years, such as what we're seeing in the Motown section.

And the truth is that even then, there were fires in that section since day one & the problems began long before there was a Soulful Detroit.

Most of us would have arguments & truthfully, one of them stemmed from a situation which simply got a little out of hand & snowballed once people began taking sides. Had the original people remained the only ones involved, it would've never regressed as it did, something which most involved regret to this day.

Over the years, I've run into many of those involved & everyone had told me that they were sorry about what happened & that things just spiraled out of control. And for the record, I never approached them, they approached me.

But yes, they are trying to undermine Ralph because he won't give them what they want & Ralph is correct in doing so. If Ralph caves in to guys who are doing the same thing that they accuse others of doing, then what happens the next time that they have a falling out or disagreement with another person?

I had my differences with Ralph's predecessor, but I never called for him to be removed, nor threaten to leave & tell people how bad this forum is because one person has never made this forum what it was & is. Sorry, but that's a bullshit move.

If I'm no longer comfortable somewhere, I'm not going to grandstand as though the forum will collapse if I leave. I'm not going to make any grand announcement by playing to the peanut gallery. If it's that damned bad, I just won't come back. It's just not that serious.

But if you look back to about 3 or 4 years ago & check the archives, you can see a few hints regarding what you've surmised. And whether anyone will admit it or not, you're closer to the truth than is comfortable for anyone to consider.

Which doesn't change the accuracy of your point.

Which means that you should be very careful about what links you click on & beware of links bearing pictures or audiophile literature.

[juicefree20]

Hi Juice, thanks for the explanation! I was a little confused, but you have cleared it up. I agree with your comments 100% & I think that Ralph is doing a whiz-bang job as moderator!

It seems as though no matter what Ralph does, he catches hell & that's not fair.

Why in the world are one group of adults running to another adult who happens to be our moderator, expecting him to clean up shit that some of them are responsible for creating?

It's one thing to be a fan, but an even better question would be, why are a group of men, having nothing invested but their memories, becoming so damned incensed over what could be considered to be even the slightest of insults, over any of this?

And to illustrate that this isn't about any ONE individual, on a couple of occasions in the past, I've seen a few forumers have the nerve to say that they didn't like a certain song by Diana Ross & The Supremes, or that perhaps that all of the songs on EVERY album wasn't a knockout, only to see her fans begin going after the person for voicing that opinion & becoming quite nasty while doing so.

Understand, these were Supremes fans who simply pointed out that every song that they made weren't Platinum-bound & these same folks attacking one person, became incensed & began attacking the person[[s) who were realistic enough to realize that NO ONE bats 1000%, not Streisand, not Aretha, not The Beatles, not even Sam Cooke or Jackie Wilson.

But of course, that's heresy & tantamount to molesting the helpless family pooch to some.

And so...the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round.

[juicefree20]

Another thing to consider is the fact that while becoming so incensed over any remarks deemed to be less than flattering about specific artists or groups, some of the same folks complaining have never been to shy to make disparaging remarks about OTHER artists.

I've seen some of these very same people making nasty remarks about other artists teeth, their weight, their voices, you name it.

Which is what makes all of this "Marv & The Marvettes" bullshit smack of some serious hypocrisy.

Now here's a question for every former who cares to answer...

How many of these people can say that they love this forum & are thankful enough that a special forum was created for THEM, to stop the bullshit for even 2 months, much less 2 minutes?

Does their behavior reflect any kind of love for anything other than themselves & their selfish bullshit?

The archive record suggests otherwise.

[luke]

Great posts juice.

[soulster]

Soulster, I was here before the Motown section was created. And yes, we had a few firestorm, but none of them continued for more than 5 years, such as what we're seeing in the Motown section.

And the truth is that even then, there were fires in that section since day one & the problems began long before there was a Soulful Detroit.

Most of us would have arguments & truthfully, one of them stemmed from a situation which simply got a little out of hand & snowballed once people began taking sides. Had the original people remained the only ones involved, it would've never regressed as it did, something which most involved regret to this day.

Over the years, I've run into many of those involved & everyone had told me that they were sorry about what happened & that things just spiraled out of control. And for the record, I never approached them, they approached me.

But yes, they are trying to undermine Ralph because he won't give them what they want & Ralph is correct in doing so. If Ralph caves in to guys who are doing the same thing that they accuse others of doing, then what happens the next time that they have a falling out or disagreement with another person?

I had my differences with Ralph's predecessor, but I never called for him to be removed, nor threaten to leave & tell people how bad this forum is because one person has never made this forum what it was & is. Sorry, but that's a bullshit move.

If I'm no longer comfortable somewhere, I'm not going to grandstand as though the forum will collapse if I leave. I'm not going to make any grand announcement by playing to the peanut gallery. If it's that damned bad, I just won't come back. It's just not that serious.

But if you look back to about 3 or 4 years ago & check the archives, you can see a few hints regarding what you've surmised. And whether anyone will admit it or not, you're closer to the truth than is comfortable for anyone to consider.

Which doesn't change the accuracy of your point.

Which means that you should be very careful about what links you click on & beware of links bearing pictures or audiophile literature.

I'm good. I have lots of protection on my computer. I run a clean machine, and know how to deal with issues that come up. Not only am I an audiophile, i'm a computer geek. But, thanks for the warnings. I'll probably run this place in a sandbox now.

My problem on this forum had to do with Miss M. One day she just went off on me and I fed it back to her in spades. Oh yeah, the forum oldtimers took her side, probably without even realizing what she had done. She's gone now. Oh well. Maybe she thought I was one of these Ross fanatics. If that's the case, she was dead wrong.

The other thing about me is that i'm not afraid to call it like I see it. Most of the old-timers just clam up and hide until they think it's over. But, nothing will ever change unless some stiff action is taken when these guys get out of hand.

And, yes, Marv needs to stop responding to them.These people are going to get their revenge any way they can, and if they can't get to Marv, it will become very, very clear what their intentions are.

Now, for those of you who are true Ross fans here, and aren't part of this anti-Marv and anti-Ralph crusade, it is your duty to call these people out that are giving you a bad name, because, right now, your names are pretty bad.

Oh, and the "Touch me In The Morning" album stinks. Come and get me!

[milven]

......and yes, Marv needs to stop responding to [the Ross fanatics]. These people are going to get their revenge any way they can, and if they can't get to Marv, it will become very, very clear what their intentions are.

Now, for those of you who are true Ross fans here, and aren't part of this anti-Marv and anti-Ralph crusade, it is your duty to call these people out that are giving you a bad name, because, right now, your names are pretty bad.

Oh, and the "Touch me In The Morning" album stinks. Come and get me!

Perhaps the Ross fans are getting a bad rap here. I am a Supremes fan. Their music has brought me lots of joy and I have continued to love them through all their changes in the seventies. I like each member but am a fanatic for none. I don't like to see any of the individual members bad mouthed. To not like Diana's Touch Me is not offensive. You are talking about the music. But to call Diana a whore, or Mary a slut because of who they sleep with is kind of tacky. That is what should be stopped. And bringing Diana into unrelated threads just to bash her should be stopped. A Ross fan would not do that. I think that is what starts the trouble here and then the Ross fans do come in and the thread explodes in chaos.

There is a very nice thread running right now about Mary Wilson. It is going fine and it is not being attacked by any Ross Fans.

Any Ross or Wilson fan had to originally be a Supremes fan. I could never understand how any Supremes fan could attack any member of the group.

And let me say a word about Marv. When we are in other non Supremes related threads, I enjoy communicating with him.

There is a current non-related Supremes thread running where a Motown artist is interviewed and confirms a Supremes/Diana incident that happened half a century ago and has been discussed here many times. [[Sometimes not so nicely). Marv was already in that thread and could have said something like "See, I told you". But he didn't . He showed restraint. It seems that under the current situation everyone is showing restraint. Let's hope it continues and that that non Supremes related thread survives.

I hope we can all show restraint. And as that Motown artist said in the interview where Marv and others showed restraint, "We all have to grow up"

[jobucats]

Ok, I am going to get in the mix.

How much longer is this thread going to "beat a dead horse?" The more one picks at a wound, the more infected it gets.

I love this forum.

[Bluebrock]

Perhaps the Ross fans are getting a bad rap here. I am a Supremes fan. Their music has brought me lots of joy and I have continued to love them through all their changes in the seventies. I like each member but am a fanatic for none. I don't like to see any of the individual members bad mouthed. To not like Diana's Touch Me is not offensive. You are talking about the music. But to call Diana a whore, or Mary a slut because of who they sleep with is kind of tacky. That is what should be stopped. And bringing Diana into unrelated threads just to bash her should be stopped. A Ross fan would not do that. I think that is what starts the trouble here and then the Ross fans do come in and the thread explodes in chaos.

There is a very nice thread running right now about Mary Wilson. It is going fine and it is not being attacked by any Ross Fans.

Any Ross or Wilson fan had to originally be a Supremes fan. I could never understand how any Supremes fan could attack any member of the group.

And let me say a word about Marv. When we are in other non Supremes related threads, I enjoy communicating with him.

There is a current non-related Supremes thread running where a Motown artist is interviewed and confirms a Supremes/Diana incident that happened half a century ago and has been discussed here many times. [[Sometimes not so nicely). Marv was already in that thread and could have said something like "See, I told you". But he didn't . He showed restraint. It seems that under the current situation everyone is showing restraint. Let's hope it continues and that that non Supremes related thread survives.

I hope we can all show restraint. And as that Motown artist said in the interview where Marv and others showed restraint, "We all have to grow up"
What an excellent post Milven. It looks like things are finally calming down and we can all hopefully get back to discussing the music here. Most other things are irrelevant in my and I suspect most other peoples opinion.

[soulster]

Perhaps the Ross fans are getting a bad rap here. I am a Supremes fan. Their music has brought me lots of joy and I have continued to love them through all their changes in the seventies. I like each member but am a fanatic for none.

I can't think of anyone over 40 years of age that doesn't like at least some of their music, at least the music made during the 60s. And, most people I know like some of Ross's solo stuff. I never heard any Mary Wilson solo stuff, so I can't comment on that.


I don't like to see any of the individual members bad mouthed.

No one likes to see their favorite artists bad-mouthed, but, you know what? That's life. People are all different and have different opinions. There are people who don't like my favorites. I think I sleep at night just fine. If someone doesn't like Diana Ross, or Mary Wilson, or any of the Supremes, so what? The works will keep turning. Puppies will keep crapping.


But to call Diana a whore, or Mary a slut because of who they sleep with is kind of tacky.

It's juvenile, and shouldn't be allowed if they said those exact words, or something close to it on this forum. And, if someone said it on this forum, you'll have to give me a link to it. If anyone did, they were probably just trying to get a rise out of someone. Remember what I posted earlier: Ross and Wilson are only being used as a proxy for something else.


That is what should be stopped. And bringing Diana into unrelated threads just to bash her should be stopped.

Anyone bringing anything about Ross into a thread that isn't about her just to annoy and disrupt the forum should be stopped. Setting up bait and switch threads [[threads that are really about the Supremes, Ross, or any other Supremes member, but not labeled as such) should be stopped, too.


A Ross fan would not do that.

Well, then, it is the responsibility of the true Ross fans, and the lovers of this forum to call out these anarchists. I am not the only one who sees that they are trying to ruin this forum because Ralph won't get rid of Marv. And, it really isn't because of something he may have said about a singer. I can't believe anyone would get that worked up over a singer. They might get worked up over something he may have said about a group of people, though. And, even if he did, it wasn't here, and it was eons ago. Why bring that mess here and ruin it for everyone else who have no dog in the fight?


I think that is what starts the trouble here and then the Ross fans do come in and the thread explodes in chaos.

Well, Ralph said he is keeping a close eye on the Ross fanaticals from here on out. I'm taking note of the otherwise active members who have been suspiciously silent on the issue, or not posting since this thread went up. Man, Diana Ross and Mary Wilson wouldn't claim these anti-Marv people as fans, and would probably request a restraining order against anyone of them who would attempt to contact them.


There is a very nice thread running right now about Mary Wilson. It is going fine and it is not being attacked by any Ross Fans.

Nor should it be. The only time I do post a smart-ass remark in a thread about a Supreme member is when I see how ridiculous it is. Diana Ross pregnant? Please! And, that thread was started by a guy who isn't even part of the Supremes/Ross circus.


Any Ross or Wilson fan had to originally be a Supremes fan. I could never understand how any Supremes fan could attack any member of the group.

There are people who are Ross solo fans but not Supremes fans, and vice versa. Some people don't like light, schmaltzy music, and some don't like that classic Motown sound. So what?


And let me say a word about Marv. When we are in other non Supremes related threads, I enjoy communicating with him.

Same here. He has a broad range of interests, which I wish more people on this forum did.

Why just mention Marv, if we are going to mention anyone? And the one I see being the chief instigator of problems has at least one other "personality" here. Why dual membership is allowed, I don't know, unless that person is using two different locations to post from. And, I can tell who it is because they both use the exact same writing style, and make the same type of typos. Even when they fake it, I can tell. Marv and Roberta 75 will constantly go at it in any of those problem threads.


There is a current non-related Supremes thread running where a Motown artist is interviewed and confirms a Supremes/Diana incident that happened half a century ago and has been discussed here many times. [[Sometimes not so nicely). Marv was already in that thread and could have said something like "See, I told you". But he didn't . He showed restraint. It seems that under the current situation everyone is showing restraint. Let's hope it continues and that that non Supremes related thread survives.


The thread may survive, but, after this latest protest blows over, and this thread is removed, it will be back to business as usual, with the baiting, trolling, and thread removals, and nothing will be done to the perps. Then, Ralph will be away doing some personal stuff, and that's when the kids will play. It happens every time he goes on a vacation or takes care of business.

That time to edit your posts is something like three days. I think it should be a half an hour, plenty of time to take back anything you posted. Of course, of someone immediately quotes the offender, they can't take it back. So, cutting down the editing time will make everyone think before they post.

[soulster]

Ok, I am going to get in the mix.

How much longer is this thread going to "beat a dead horse?"



Until everyone has their say and something changes, or it gets removed.

[Roberta75]

I can't think of anyone over 40 years of age that doesn't like at least some of their music, at least the music made during the 60s. And, most people I know like some of Ross's solo stuff. I never heard any Mary Wilson solo stuff, so I can't comment on that.



No one likes to see their favorite artists bad-mouthed, but, you know what? That's life. People are all different and have different opinions. There are people who don't like my favorites. I think I sleep at night just fine. If someone doesn't like Diana Ross, or Mary Wilson, or any of the Supremes, so what? The works will keep turning. Puppies will keep crapping.



It's juvenile, and shouldn't be allowed if they said those exact words, or something close to it on this forum. And, if someone said it on this forum, you'll have to give me a link to it. If anyone did, they were probably just trying to get a rise out of someone. Remember what I posted earlier: Ross and Wilson are only being used as a proxy for something else.



Anyone bringing anything about Ross into a thread that isn't about her just to annoy and disrupt the forum should be stopped. Setting up bait and switch threads [[threads that are really about the Supremes, Ross, or any other Supremes member, but not labeled as such) should be stopped, too.



Well, then, it is the responsibility of the true Ross fans, and the lovers of this forum to call out these anarchists. I am not the only one who sees that they are trying to ruin this forum because Ralph won't get rid of Marv. And, it really isn't because of something he may have said about a singer. I can't believe anyone would get that worked up over a singer. They might get worked up over something he may have said about a group of people, though. And, even if he did, it wasn't here, and it was eons ago. Why bring that mess here and ruin it for everyone else who have no dog in the fight?



Well, Ralph said he is keeping a close eye on the Ross fanaticals from here on out. I'm taking note of the otherwise active members who have been suspiciously silent on the issue, or not posting since this thread went up. Man, Diana Ross and Mary Wilson wouldn't claim these anti-Marv people as fans, and would probably request a restraining order against anyone of them who would attempt to contact them.



Nor should it be. The only time I do post a smart-ass remark in a thread about a Supreme member is when I see how ridiculous it is. Diana Ross pregnant? Please! And, that thread was started by a guy who isn't even part of the Supremes/Ross circus.



There are people who are Ross solo fans but not Supremes fans, and vice versa. Some people don't like light, schmaltzy music, and some don't like that classic Motown sound. So what?



Same here. He has a broad range of interests, which I wish more people on this forum did.

Why just mention Marv, if we are going to mention anyone? And the one I see being the chief instigator of problems has at least one other "personality" here. Why dual membership is allowed, I don't know, unless that person is using two different locations to post from. And, I can tell who it is because they both use the exact same writing style, and make the same type of typos. Even when they fake it, I can tell. Marv and Roberta 75 will constantly go at it in any of those problem threads.



The thread may survive, but, after this latest protest blows over, and this thread is removed, it will be back to business as usual, with the baiting, trolling, and thread removals, and nothing will be done to the perps. Then, Ralph will be away doing some personal stuff, and that's when the kids will play. It happens every time he goes on a vacation or takes care of business.

That time to edit your posts is something like three days. I think it should be a half an hour, plenty of time to take back anything you posted. Of course, of someone immediately quotes the offender, they can't take it back. So, cutting down the editing time will make everyone think before they post.

This is the 3rd tim Im telling you this and I am being real polite about it . I have no intention of going at it with marv. Im done with him and hes blocked so please leave my name out of this.

thank you.

Roberta

[REDHOT]

Soulster you are on point,i'v said it many times,these people post these negative things,because they know,they are gonna get a reaction,when you tell the truth about them,they look for other ways to attack you,because the truth hurts,they know you[[soulster)and Juicefree are telling the truth,i did notice,the people that keeps up,they most mess and drama,is not saying much,on this thread,i'm 100%sure,they are readin' it all,waiting for the right time,to cut in,i love Mary Wilson,but if you don't like her,to each his own,but don't,say you don't like her,but you know her whole life story,follow her on facebook,goes to her shows,can't wait to read everything about her lol,but loves to put her down,i know why these people do it,again to get a reaction,it's really sick,most people,if they don't like a artist,they don't follow them,if i don't like a artist,i couldn't tell u,anything about them.Soulster and Juicefree,again i enjoy it, when you guys post,you keep it 100

[midnightman]

Respect the Supremes.

Respect the memory of Florence Ballard.

Respect Mary Wilson.

Respect Diana Ross.

Respect Cindy Birdsong.

Respect Jean Terrell.

Respect Lynda Laurence.

Respect Scherrie Payne.

Respect Susaye Greene.

Respect 'em all.

And anyone who comes in threads with absolute disrespect to any of them, STOP while you're ahead if you're that upset by them... simple as that.

Respect this forum and respect Mr. Terrana and Lowell.

And as a political anarchist, I wouldn't call these disruptors "anarchists", more like reactionaries...

[soulster]

The posts speak for themselves.

[REDHOT]

I agree with you midnightman,Respect

[Roberta75]

Respect the Supremes.

Respect the memory of Florence Ballard.

Respect Mary Wilson.

Respect Diana Ross.

Respect Cindy Birdsong.

Respect Jean Terrell.

Respect Lynda Laurence.

Respect Scherrie Payne.

Respect Susaye Greene.

Respect 'em all.

And anyone who comes in threads with absolute disrespect to any of them, STOP while you're ahead if you're that upset by them... simple as that.

Respect this forum and respect Mr. Terrana and Lowell.

And as a political anarchist, I wouldn't call these disruptors "anarchists", more like reactionaries...

110% correct and respect Miss Barbara Martin.

Fondly,

Roberta

[marv2]

110% correct and respect Miss Barbara Martin.

Fondly,

Roberta

Roberta I just spent most of today with Martha Reeves.

[Methuselah2]

Perhaps I'd start off with always making the effort to treat each SDF member with respect. Any discussion that then follows--about any subject, any artist, anyone's opinion about whatever is brought up--seems that it would be well-served from that starting point. Seems at least worth a try.