Look at this fantastic Billboard Rave for "The Marvelettes In Full Bloom"

[huntergettingcaptured]

Billboard was very enthusiastic for the Ladies and the album. I thought it was really nice to see the industry had a high regard for the Marvelettes.

[kenneth]

Wow! Nice find and a great review. Thanks for posting!

[huntergettingcaptured]

You're very welcome!

[motony]

I do remember an article in Billboard that said to look for Motown to give That's How Heartaches Are Made a big push.....we know that didn't happen.

[kenneth]

I do remember an article in Billboard that said to look for Motown to give That's How Heartaches Are Made a big push.....we know that didn't happen.

Which is too bad because it's an absolutely beautiful arrangement with a breathtaking vocal by Wanda.

[huntergettingcaptured]

Thought I read here some time ago that the group appeared on American Bandstand performing this song.

[kenneth]

Thought I read here some time ago that the group appeared on American Bandstand performing this song.

I never heard that but someone on this site will know.

[Methuselah2]

Very nice clipping to see, HGC. Thank you for posting.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

The Marvelettes' "In Full Bloom" is one of my favorite Motown albums. Those Dean & Weatherspoon compositions and productions like "Seeing Is Believing" and "Now Is The Time For Love" were among Motown's prettiest ever. And Wanda did a great job on that album. "That's How Heartaches Are Made" was a beautiful recording and deserved to be a hit. It actually got a lot of airplay on my local radio station. The station manager loved Motown. All of the major Motown acts got heavy rotation on each new single release. Wanda Rogers & The Marvelettes were no exception.

[arr&bee]

Nice indeed,that's how heartaches are made, one of the greatest covers ever and yes it should've been a big hit we played it to death in d.c. - great post!!

[kenneth]

I know I've mentioned this before when this album was discussed. I love the "In Full Bloom" album but I think it suffers from too much sameness in the songs and arrangements. "Heartaches," "Uptown," "Seeing is Believing," and "Rainy Mourning" are certainly highlights. But several of the songs seem to be those same songs, slightly rearranged. "Too Many Tears," for example, is a great song but is really just "Rainy Mourning" with a slightly different chorus. And although they are also great songs, "Now is the Time for Love" and "At Last I See Love as it Really Is" are also somewhat interchangeable. Wanda's vocals were never better, but the album needed a couple more upbeat songs to punch it up a little, I think.

The biggest surprise is when the second box set came out, and from the session notes we saw that many of these songs had been recorded several years earlier, and the contents were gathered over quite a long period of time. The album is seamless in its continuity and mood, so much so that I think it suffers a bit from it.

But the arrangements are flawless and Wanda sings brilliantly throughout. It's definitely a mood piece, in my opinion. Maybe for those "rainy mournings."

[Sharpmoves]

This is certainly on my favourite Motown albums list. I seemed to come to these late Marvelettes albums in chronological order, starting with a speculative purchase of the mono version of the "pink" one in a record sale - I still play it often, and it blew me away. What was most interesting was how distinctive the Marvelettes sound was - I already knew DRATS and their unique sound, and MR&TVs and their very special brand of soul, and now here were the Marvelettes, quite distinctly different again. Sophisticated Soul was next, and never was there a more aptly-named Motown album. It represented real development, and innovation in their sound and style, and I loved it. Full Bloom was next, and it mesmerized me - sure there were no stompers on there, but the moodiness and wistfulness were compelling. Taken together, these three albums set a benchmark for quality, and I love them all. Long live these great recordings.
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[kenneth]

@sharpmoves, I totally agree with everything you said, although the first album I purchased by the Marvelettes [[aside from "Greatest Hits") was "Sophisticated Soul," not the pink album.

I'm curious though. You didn't mention "Return." Was there a reason? Is it because you don't consider it a true Marvelettes album as it was in essence a Wanda solo project? Or is it not just up there with the other three, in your opinion?

"Return" is my favorite of all Marvelettes albums, though I guess I don't think too much about whether or not Katherine and Ann were on it because I grew up with it, probably buying it the week it came out. I remember my girlfriend at the time calling me so excited to tell me there was a new Marvelettes album, and naming all the songs, many of which I already knew [[as would most serious Motown fans).

But I'm just curious. Was there a reason for "Return's" omission in your list?

[captainjames]

In Full Bloom is still my favorite LP by the girls. I don't think they ever performed 'Heartaches"Live because of the problems surrounding Motown and the group.

[westgrandboulevard]

I can't speak for Sharpmoves but 'The Return of the Marvelettes' album, although originally scheduled for release as Tamla Motown number 11177, was not issued here in the UK.

I can only imagine that the Motown UK office must ultimately have felt it had little potential for sales, for a variety of reasons.

At the time, it seemed a slightly odd situation, considering that the title suggested a new beginning, and that Smokey Robinson had taken the time to record Wanda...but the cover, although a clever idea, sent a mixed message, in that only Wanda was clearly identifiable.

Added to that, two tracks were repeated from the 'In Full Bloom' album: - 'That's How Heartaches Are Made', which was not released as a single in the UK - and 'Uptown', recorded two years before, and the only track on 'Return' featuring vocals from the whole group. There was no single released in the UK from the 'Return' album, nor even from 'In Full Bloom'.

In hindsight, the UK office was probably aware that Motown had little or no interest in The Marvelettes, as there was no-one left to promote the name on stage, or any newly released product by 'The Marvelettes'.

Wanda may have been able to record, but was not well placed to perform consistently. If a single released from the album had sold well, would Motown have had to consider sending replacement ladies out to promote it?

I wonder sometimes if Smokey was just simply fulfilling a contractual obligation for the group on behalf of Motown, knowing that the project was very unlikely to go any further.

Perhaps the release of 'Return' may have been considered simply useful in keeping the name out there, to help with promotion of future re-released back catalogue by The Marvelettes.

There were no more UK album releases for The Marvelettes until Jan 1975, with 'The Best Of...', and then 'Anthology' following in the U.S in the May, but which was not released in the UK.

So, I could have bought the album as an import, but it seemed to me to be an afterthought and, somehow, I never got around to buying it.

While I am really pleased to have it, at last, in my collection as part of the 'Forever More' set, and to complete for me The Marvelettes recording history, it is, just in my own opinion, the weakest of the Marvelettes albums.

[kenneth]

@westgrandboulevard, your comments are very thoughtful and interesting though I am surprised you consider "Return" to be their weakest effort. But likely you are spot on regarding the reasons for the lack of promotion in the UK. Here, too, it was virtually non-existent. I never heard "Marionette," which to me is one of the best Marvelettes tracks ever, on the radio. I did hear "A Breath Taking Guy" on the radio a few times [[though I believe this was almost a year after the LP came out - go figure).

Yes, there are many mysteries associated with this album. I do believe the "Marvelettes" appellation was somewhat of an afterthought. I have read that Smokey intended it to be a Wanda solo effort but that Gordy felt it was better to market it as a group album because Wanda's name was not well known.

And who were those other girls on the cover??? Even in 1970, it seemed so strange that you couldn't make out their faces, though of course it never occurred to us that it wasn't Katherine and Ann!

[westgrandboulevard]

Yes, Kenneth....if there were no Marvelettes to promote the 'Return' album as a bona fide recording by the group, and yet BG felt that Wanda Rogers was not well known, there has to be another reason...and I don't think it was a positive one for the ladies. For example, I'm unsure if they were receiving royalties at that point...or still paying back session fees?

There was conjecture at the time that the other two ladies on the cover were Billie and Brenda from The Undisputed Truth...but I can't verify that. Anyone spot a resemblance?...but it could also have been any couple of ladies used to riding horses. If Wanda really was up there, sat on that horse, I admired her for doing that. I imagine it was an unfamiliar activity for her!

The reason I feel it is the weakest Marvelettes album is because much of it has Wanda using her 'head' falsetto, which was always right at the top of her range. Too much use of it doesn't leave Wanda sounding as sassy as most of her earlier recordings and, to my ears, too much of it wears a bit thin, as though she's trying too hard to sound 'little girl'. The result is a sound which doesn't sound to my ears as an authentic Marvelettes set of tracks, irrespective of who is singing background. Just my opinion....and all the time, there were many, many recordings in the vault which amply displayed the true characteristics of....... The Marvelettes.:)

[kenneth]

Thanks for expressing your opinion in such an articulate way. Yes, I know, Wanda's falsetto is not for everyone.

What I really liked about the album, which was different than "In Full Bloom," was it did have some uptempo numbers, such as "Our Lips Just Seem to Rhyme Everytime," the James Bond-sounding arrangement of "I'll Be in Trouble," and the rollicking version of "Someday We'll Be Together," which I think really put that song on its ear. I love those!

Thanks again.

[daviddesper]

LOVE this discussion as it brings back soooooooo many memories! I can still remember the exact store in which I bought every Marvelettes album, since it was not always the same one. My biggest thrill of all was when I walked into one store and the Return album and Martha's Natural Resources album were right there side by side. Amazingly I was able to afford both that night. Not sure how closely together they were actually released, but for me I saw them both for the first time together.

To add my two cents regarding the quality of the albums being discussed, I would have to say that I preferred the four albums in their order of release, meaning Pink was my favorite, followed by Sophisticated Soul, and so on. I think one person hit it on the head for me regarding Return about the falsetto not being Wanda at her best or most natural.

However, one aspect of In Full Bloom that is not being discussed is the matter of how very beautiful the cover was. It had to have attracted plenty of attention in record stores, it is very well done, with a truly beautiful photo. All three girls looked great, I especially loved Kat's outfit, and even the capital M used was a stroke of creative genius on someone's part. They could have just had it in the same basic black lettering.

Oh don't get me wrong.......I think it was a fantastic album and I worshipped it at the time, as I did all my Motown albums. But I think the cover was just as appealing as the music.

[kenneth]

@daviddesper, I think both "In Full Bloom" and "Return" were designed by Ken Kim who did a number of Motown covers. I remember the name very well because of my name [[Kenneth) and my girlfriend's at the time [[which was Kim). We laughed the first time we noticed that name.

Oops, strike that...I just checked "Return" and no credit to Ken Kim. However, I am sure he designed the "Full Bloom" cover though I don't have one within easy reach at the moment.

They are really both beautiful covers. I think "Bloom" is notable because for the first time the girls were not dressed alike. Even the Supremes were still in matching gowns on their albums at the time, which to me, at my young age, seemed rather quaint. The Marvelettes looked more contemporary, just as the Vandellas did on "Natural Resources."

Well, I guess I should retract that a bit before I get blasted. Yes, the Supremes dressed differently for the "Love Child" album but that was more of a "costume" I think than it was the way they were presented to the public [[except I think they did dress that way when they did the song on Ed Sullivan).

I'd rather correct myself than get blasted by the SDF members!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

David, to answer your question, Martha & The Vandellas' "Natural Resources" LP was released in September 1970, and The Marvelettes' "Return Of" LP was released in October 1970. Motown had a massive album release schedule in the Fall of 1969 and 1970 for all of its major acts, of which both years' Fall release schedule included full-page ads in Billboard magazine showing a photo of each album by each respective artist. I felt like a kid at Christmas having so much new Motown product available at one time. Especially thrilling for me was the fact that both the '69 and '70 batches included new albums from Martha Reeves & The Vandellas AND Wanda Rogers & The Marvelettes -- 1969 included Martha's "Sugar & Spice" and Wanda's "In Full Bloom", while 1970 included Martha's "Natural Resources" and Wanda's "Return Of The Marvelettes", as mentioned above. I would almost give my right arm to relive those magical Motown moments again.

[westgrandboulevard]

I agree with Daviddesper about little touches on the album covers [[example, the capital 'M' on the cover of 'In Full Bloom')

That, and what was in the grooves, did send signals about time and attention which was being paid to the artists. In those days, we didn't know as much as we now do.

We just wanted to believe, to admire and love them. So each new release was an EVENT. I could feel some disappointment at times, but still remained a loyal fan.

It was interesting to see Ann wearing her hair natural on the 'In Full Bloom' cover....

[Methuselah2]

@daviddesper, I think both "In Full Bloom" and "Return" were designed by Ken Kim who did a number of Motown covers. I remember the name very well because of my name [[Kenneth) and my girlfriend's at the time [[which was Kim). We laughed the first time we noticed that name.

Oops, strike that...I just checked "Return" and no credit to Ken Kim. However, I am sure he designed the "Full Bloom" cover though I don't have one within easy reach at the moment.

They are really both beautiful covers. I think "Bloom" is notable because for the first time the girls were not dressed alike. Even the Supremes were still in matching gowns on their albums at the time, which to me, at my young age, seemed rather quaint. The Marvelettes looked more contemporary, just as the Vandellas did on "Natural Resources."

Well, I guess I should retract that a bit before I get blasted. Yes, the Supremes dressed differently for the "Love Child" album but that was more of a "costume" I think than it was the way they were presented to the public [[except I think they did dress that way when they did the song on Ed Sullivan).

I'd rather correct myself than get blasted by the SDF members!

Kenneth - No blast from me--I certainly can get the facts turned around myself at times. And have! But when it comes to 'who wore what', I am on the case!

Before IN FULL BLOOM:
THE MARVALETTES [[The Pink Album)

Before LOVE CHILD:
WE REMEMBER SAM COOKE
MORE HITS BY
A' GO-GO

[[for all the fashionistas out there)

[westgrandboulevard]

For all the fashionistas out there, this Motown fan spends most early mornings here in the UK [[middle of the night in the US) at my keyboard in the Star Dressing Room, in my fluffy white bath robe. So chic......;)

[Methuselah2]

"That's what makes one a star."

[westgrandboulevard]

LOL! Being unique, we're all stars, in our own ways...but it's good to keep up appearances, and maintain 'glamour'. [[you see, here in the UK, we get that extra letter 'U' in the word, which somehow makes it seem all more personal.....!)

The blunt reality of course is that, underneath my clothes, I'm walking around completely naked.:rolleyes:

Back to The Marvelettes.......

On the recordings credited to The Marvelettes, I prefer to hear the ladies either as they really are...or as they are, but also embellished by The Andantes...but NOT totally substituted. On reflection, that's another reason why I don't care too much for the 'Return' album.

[Sharpmoves]

@sharpmoves, I totally agree with everything you said, although the first album I purchased by the Marvelettes [[aside from "Greatest Hits") was "Sophisticated Soul," not the pink album.

I'm curious though. You didn't mention "Return." Was there a reason? Is it because you don't consider it a true Marvelettes album as it was in essence a Wanda solo project? Or is it not just up there with the other three, in your opinion?

"Return" is my favorite of all Marvelettes albums, though I guess I don't think too much about whether or not Katherine and Ann were on it because I grew up with it, probably buying it the week it came out. I remember my girlfriend at the time calling me so excited to tell me there was a new Marvelettes album, and naming all the songs, many of which I already knew [[as would most serious Motown fans).

But I'm just curious. Was there a reason for "Return's" omission in your list?

Thanks Kenneth - what a discussion this has prompted! I've read what WGB has said about "Return" and do rather agree with him. However, unlike him, I stumbled across an imported copy of the vinyl album in London probably in 1971, and spent my hard-earned pennies on it. I was delighted by the concept and the cover, innocently believing that it featured Ann and Kat as well as Wanda. However, I was disappointed to find that it contained two tracks from In Full Bloom, which was puzzling. In addition, the covers of Breathtaking Guy, Someday We'll Be together, and No More Tearstained Make Up, were all [[I felt) inferior to the original versions by the Supremes and Vandellas respectively - in fact those groups had made such iconic recordings of these songs that it felt to me to be unwise for the Marvelettes to cover them at all. It's certainly true that there is very enjoyable material on Return, including So I Can Love You, After All, and especially Take Me Where You Go. But overall, I think it's rather more patchy, and didn't blow me away like the other three albums had. Hope that explains things?

[johnjeb]

I now love "In Full Bloom" but am still ambivalent about "Return".

When these albums [[and the Vandellas two albums) were released I was in my last two years of college, so funds were limited. Although, I loved the two previous releases, on both groups, and consider those albums among my top Motown favorites, these releases didn't appeal to me.

First, I didn't like the covers for all four albums. Not the pictures, designs or even the titles. Secondly, there were no strong singles included to add to the appeal. Lastly, there were too many Motown and non-Motown covers, particularly on "Return". Having limited funds, these albums immediately went to the bottom of my want list.

Within a couple of years I found all four albums by The Marvelettes and The Vandellas in bargain bins. I was very pleased to finally have them. However when I played them I was so disappointed. A friend kept telling me to listen a few more times. It took a while to appreciate these albums, or at least a few of the songs from each album.

Only "In Full Bloom" is now a favorite. There are only four songs on "Return" on my iPod and iTunes playlists - "Our Lips Just Seem To Rhyme Every Time". "Marionette", "So I Can Love You", and "After All".

I think they should have kept this as a solo album for Wanda. But since it was a Marvelettes album then maybe they should have released "Lips" as the lead single. It's a catchy tune, a pop tune in the vein of the group's last significant hit in early 1968, "Magician".

These two Marvelettes album covers are not among my favorites and the fact that the back covers are black and white versions of the front covers seems like little effort was put into the design. What's with that one big tulip in front of Ann Bogan?

I am in agreement with others here in that "Return" is marred by Wanda's falsetto. I would have also preferred fewer Motown covers - despite newer arrangements, which all sound the same and are not even half as good as the original versions. There are a couple of Wanda vocals on the "Forever More" collection that might have helped this album had they been added.

[westgrandboulevard]

I agree that 'Lips' would have made the best lead single.

Just my opinion, but it would have been interesting if Motown had tested the waters by giving that song a non-standard Motown production from that time - for example, try a Caribbean, party-style atmosphere - and simply credited it to Wanda Rogers, to see what happened. I still think nothing much was really expected from the whole project.....

The promo literature of it could have mentioned Wanda as being 'of The Marvelettes'. Using Wanda's 'unknown' name alone on the record could have given plenty of scope for different styles for her to try, if she were able to do so. I suspect Motown would not have envisaged any radical change in style for one of their artists, or even been capable of achieving it, and someone else would have had to be brought in to tackle it. Richard Morris could have given it a distinct country feel, like Martha's 'Honey Chile' and others.

The finished 'Lips' track on the album has no typical Marvelette soul/r&b feel to it, even less the over-lush instrumentation and smooth Andantes production given to it...but, the song does have a great 'pop' appeal..and Wanda, especially in falsetto, did have a 'pop' voice. The chorus is catchy, if dumb, but the killer hook line is 'make it all right now....' And only Wanda could deliver it, the way she does, in that "y'all take care, now" inflection.

[kenneth]

Guys, thanks for the great discussion points. It seems I'm the only one who really loves the "Return" album. That's hard to accept, but I respect your opinions.

Y'all take care, now!

[westgrandboulevard]

Oh, there's nothing really wrong at all with the 'Return' album! Much better than many others released by other record labels...just that I can't take it quite to heart as much as the other Marvelette albums which preceded it.

Records can have a special significance to all of us, when we remember what we were doing at the time we bought them.

Just wondering, Kenneth.....maybe you are perhaps just a tad younger than some of us?

Or, maybe it's the combination of [[a) The Marvelettes, [[b) with that actual album, and [[c) that particular girlfriend, which is particularly potent?

Might that perhaps have some bearing ...? For example, as I didn't buy it when released, I can't identify it closely with that time in my life.....so I am now, in my own 60s, assessing its appeal to me, simply as part of a sequence of albums by The Marvelettes...and, in particular, as the last one in the line.

[Methuselah2]

"Miss Channing is ageless."
--Bette Davis as 'Margo Channing' in ALL ABOUT EVE [[1950)

Oops. Wrong thread.

[westgrandboulevard]

"Fasten yourselves to your keyboards. It's going to be a bumpy thread" ;)

[sansradio]

"Miss Channing is ageless."
--Bette Davis as 'Margo Channing' in ALL ABOUT EVE [[1950)

Oops. Wrong thread.

"Spoken like a press agent." ;)

[kenneth]

"Miss Channing is ageless."
--Bette Davis as 'Margo Channing' in ALL ABOUT EVE [[1950)

Oops. Wrong thread.

I guess someone named Methuselah should know! LOL!

[kenneth]

Records can have a special significance to all of us, when we remember what we were doing at the time we bought them.

Just wondering, Kenneth.....maybe you are perhaps just a tad younger than some of us?

Or, maybe it's the combination of [[a) The Marvelettes, [[b) with that actual album, and [[c) that particular girlfriend, which is particularly potent?


It's very possible that for those reasons, that album has special significance for me. My girlfriend and I listened to it together many times. She was my high school sweetheart.

It's also true that Wanda's has always been my favorite voice of all the Motown ladies, though I love Martha and Diane [[almost) as much.

I also love the song selection of the LP. I really enjoyed the treatment of the "trunk songs" on the album. I liked "Makeup" by the Vandellas, but thought Martha's reading was kind of listless. [[I don't believe the Vandellas were even on it.) I enjoyed "Breath Taking Guy" by the Sups but to me it was such an early song, it almost had a Doo Wop type sound to it, definitely it was before their own sound was developed. And although I liked "Someday" by the Sups, i thought it, too, was a little bland. I appreciate it more today than I did back then but I loved the way the Marvelettes really amped it up and it became a joyous shout, rather than Diane's subdued treatment of the lyrics.

The only thing that's not true about what you speculated is that I'm sorry to say I'm of the same age group as you are!

[westgrandboulevard]

Ah, yes. Records are just records. What they mean to us, however, is something completely different..and the same recording means something different to each person who values it.

Well, I must say I'm happy to now find myself 'of a certain age'. 65 last month. I now become increasingly nearer the age of 70, than 60...

I drive most days, but also have a bus pass for free travel. The hardest part about getting that was obtaining what I considered to be a flattering likeness. That is, a photo which confirmed it had been taken before I'd died...and not after. It took me 6 attempts to find something acceptable..yet still that picture kind of haunts me....:rolleyes:

So...I'm 'early elderly' - and I'm very firmly staying that way!

It's very reassuring to know that, for the entire duration, The Marvelettes will remain, 'Forever More' ;)

[Methuselah2]

For some rare and wonderful interview footage with Gladys Horton, see the thread "Twist [Documentary, 1992]" that I just bumped up.

[144man]

Guys, thanks for the great discussion points. It seems I'm the only one who really loves the "Return" album. That's hard to accept, but I respect your opinions.

Y'all take care, now!

Although living in the UK, I was able to get a copy of "Return of..." soon after its US release, and I like it almost as much as "In Full Bloom". The longer version of "Marionette" on the album is one of my favourite ever Motown tracks, and I particularly like "A Breathtaking Guy" and "I'll Be In Trouble".

On "In Full Bloom", I thought "Sunshine Days" was the obvious choice for a single.

[kenneth]

Although living in the UK, I was able to get a copy of "Return of..." soon after its US release, and I like it almost as much as "In Full Bloom". The longer version of "Marionette" on the album is one of my favourite ever Motown tracks, and I particularly like "A Breathtaking Guy" and "I'll Be In Trouble".

On "In Full Bloom", I thought "Sunshine Days" was the obvious choice for a single.

And just where have you been, 144man, while I've been the sole defender here of "Return!" It's about time!!!

Seriously, I think "Marionette" has the best ever Smokey lyrics after "The Love I Saw in You Was Just a Mirage" and "The Hunter Gets Captured by the Game." Brilliant.

[mysterysinger]

So would Motown ever have billed them as Wanda Rogers and The Marvelettes or given her a solo career? Maybe "Return Of" was a sop to Wanda - there's the symbolic [[?) inclusion of "Someday We'll Be Together" and that cover.

"In Full Bloom" was a fine album - some very nice tracks on there. "That's How Heartaches Are Made" is a great track.