Edwin Starr War

[carole cucumber]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RXxR3u2AFo

[arr&bee]

Nice,we don't see much of edwin starr,good singer whose rendition of[i'm gonna keep on tryin]is a classic.

[Bluebrock]

Edwin was the sweetest guy. Kind, modest and immensely talented. He is sadly missed.

[kenneth]

Great find. I love his outfit! Thanks Carole.

[midnightman]

45 years on and the message still resonates.

[kenneth]

45 years on and the message still resonates.

So very true. Who would have thought all these years later that there'd still be all this clamoring to go to war?

[jaybs]

Edwin was a Real Gentleman and here in the UK a real people's performer respected by everyone, the radio station I was at we booked him several times for events and each appearance he set the place on fire, his connection with people was a True Gift, it was not an act like many just genuine personality. One major event in a Big Top we also booked The Platters, Edwin was on first and on top of his game as always, he finished his set well over and hour and we started to interval, still no Platters, after 25 minutes without any prompting or asking he came to me and said John, everyone is getting restless just asked my band and they agree we will go on again and do another set until the arrived. Ever the Professional and his band made up with many young Brits really rocked and you could see they loved Edwin, he was taken from us too soon!

[kenneth]

@jaybs, what a great story and how lucky you were to have known him!

[honest man]

wonderful Motown artist i had the pleasure to meet him ,he appeared at a bar not far from me,he sat at the table waiting his turn conversing with people a true gentleman,Hope we get a Lost and Found set on him in near future,cheers.

[Bluebrock]

Edwin was a Real Gentleman and here in the UK a real people's performer respected by everyone, the radio station I was at we booked him several times for events and each appearance he set the place on fire, his connection with people was a True Gift, it was not an act like many just genuine personality. One major event in a Big Top we also booked The Platters, Edwin was on first and on top of his game as always, he finished his set well over and hour and we started to interval, still no Platters, after 25 minutes without any prompting or asking he came to me and said John, everyone is getting restless just asked my band and they agree we will go on again and do another set until the arrived. Ever the Professional and his band made up with many young Brits really rocked and you could see they loved Edwin, he was taken from us too soon!

As I said in my earlier post this guy was just the nicest, most down to earth person imaginable. He loved living in the UK and charmed everyone he met. Such a sad loss.

[ralpht]

For those of you who haven't read my book [[shame shame),
Edwin Starr was my brother Russ's first session at Golden World. He was working as an assistant to engineer Bob D'Orleans. Bob failed to show up for the session that day. Edwin asked Russ if he could handle it. Russ said "No problem" and the date was done. From that point on, Russ was Edwin's engineer.

[kenneth]

I've really enjoyed the recent reissues of "Involved!" and "Soul Master," especially the former. He must have steel belted vocal cords, the way he could sing. He could handle ballads too, though. What a talent.

[rovereab]

I'd still like to find the UK single mix of this song for online purchase or download. Every album I have with the song included only features the US mix.

Any ideas folks?

[theboyfromxtown]

Get someone to record your 45....

[westgrandboulevard]

Remind me again, please; how I would know if I were listening to the UK single mix...or the US one...?

[theboyfromxtown]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ8TS7y65gk

The horns are the give away.

[westgrandboulevard]

OK thanks, theboyfromxtown.

So this one is obviously the US version : that is, where some phrases by the brass/horns are more predominant, and the notes more sustained.

I wonder how many people are now checking their entire collections.....LOL

[theboyfromxtown]

No dear....just you!

[westgrandboulevard]

Well, I reckon you could be wrong there, theboyfromxtown. If anyone is not entirely sure of the difference, but interested, they will at least want to check it out even if, for some reason, they can't.

Unlike you [[my dear ;))...I don't have a large collection, and have never bought two copies of anything. That's for serious collectors, if not completists...and that's just not me.

The only copy of 'War' I do remember having which sounded 'different' was on a CD collection from about 10 years ago, or probably even more. Can't remember the name of the series...although I admit I just might go and look for a clue[[LOL!) I think the actual CD has long gone.

What made it different to my ears was that the 'wailing' guitar [[?)sound, and which I hear on the version you've posted, was very much mixed down, if not missing altogether; something which I actually thought was an improvement...and the brass sounded punchier and tighter.

AFTERTHOUGHT:

Have now remembered that CD album. It was 'Motown Legends series, Edwin Starr'; released in 1995, so even further back than I thought. 'War' is the first track, and sounded different to me...but it may have been included on other albums over the years, but which I didn't buy.

We may well have wobbled off the point!

I hope someone can find and post the UK 45 version of 'War' here....and equally, that someone can help rovereab track down a version of it, to keep. ;)

[carole cucumber]

I hope someone can find and post the UK 45 version of 'War' here....and equally, that someone can help rovereab track down a version of it, to keep. ;)

http://faac.us/adf/messages/2/204172.html



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cwHQpJddus

[rovereab]

Get someone to record your 45....

John, I don't have the 45 sadly and was gutted when Motown Chartbusters 5's steroe mix was so different.

One notable feature of the UK mix is the longer fade.

[rovereab]

http://faac.us/adf/messages/2/204172.html



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cwHQpJddus

Thanks Carole :)

[theboyfromxtown]

lol Well done Carole

[rovereab]

Apart from the extended ending I think the UK mix has a better overall balance of instruments throughout.

[Sotosound]

Apart from the extended ending I think the UK mix has a better overall balance of instruments throughout.

As far as I can tell, the UK single mix is actually a fold-down of the normal stereo mix but with a later fade. So, instead of Edwin and his troops marching off to war in the fade, they eventually stop marching and the Funks come back in with an instrumental jam heavily featuring Dennis Coffey's wailing guitar.

It's Dennis' wailing guitar that was so prominent when I used to hear that track on Radio 1 when it first came out in the UK and I was shocked to find it mixed down to near silence in the official US single mix when I eventually got to hear that on Radio Nordsee International, which was one of the last surviving relics from the pirate radio era, and which was obviously playing a single sourced from outside of the UK.

My preference is for the stereo mix over the official mono mix since the mono mix sounds a bit unbalanced and not quite as integrated and finished as Motown mono mixes normally are, and since I love that wailing guitar. At one time I thought that what the original single mix consisted of was just one channel from the stereo mix [[the channel with the horns) with some equalisation and compression added to make it more radio-ready. A closer listen, however, tells me that this is not so.

What I don't know is how I would feel if the UK had gotten the official single mix instead of our own unofficial mix. Which would I then have preferred 45 years later?

I now have two copies of TMG 754 since my original copy has a small split in the run-in groove which I don't want to aggravate too much and since the track isn't available anywhere else that I know of.

The master tape, however, must be somewhere in a UK tape archive, just waiting to be found and re-issued.

I can dream, can't I?

[JL2648]

I've really enjoyed this thread. Edwin seemed like such a cool guy. I regret that I never got to see him in person. I did not know that the US and UK releases of "War" were different, mix-wise. What might explain the reason for this? Perhaps it was some sort of a creative compromise between those that put it together?

[theboyfromxtown]

jl2648

The story is in the archives....I seem to recall explaining it. Essentially, UK Motown wanted the mix to be sent over from the States quickly and US Motown sent the wrong one.

[RobertZ]

I'm late to the party with this thread and have not read every post - but has anyone bought the recent "Involved" and "Soul Master" expanded editions? They seem like worthwhile additions -

[Philles/Motown Gary]

I'm late to the party with this thread and have not read every post - but has anyone bought the recent "Involved" and "Soul Master" expanded editions? They seem like worthwhile additions -
Yeah, Robert, and they both sound great. I especially love "Soul Master", which also contains a ton of bonus tracks.

[Sotosound]

Had another listen tonight and compared the original UK single with the stereo mix from the original vinyl Motown Chartbusters Vol 5 with the mono switch on. The result is that they are definitely the same mix, right down to when Dennis' guitar is loud and when it's buried in the mix a bit.

The single, however, seems to have been folded down using a dodgy tape machine since the centre information is a bit mushy, almost as though the playback head wasn't quite correctly aligned.

Also listened to the US single mix from TMG968 [[a later re-issue c/w "Indiana Wants Me" by R. Dean Taylor) and although the horns aren't as integrated as they might have been, and although Dennis' guitar is almost totally buried, it really kicks as a mix. Loads of energy and drive and far more raw than the stereo mix.

[kenneth]

I'm late to the party with this thread and have not read every post - but has anyone bought the recent "Involved" and "Soul Master" expanded editions? They seem like worthwhile additions -

Yep, they are great. I like "Involved!" a lot more than "Soul Master," because his sound is so much more updated, but they're both excellent. Lots of bonus tracks on each!