Two different versions of shalamar currently touring

[glencro]

Currently Howard Hewitt and Jeffrey Daniels are touring with a young lady as Shalamar while Jody Watley is on tour with two young men as Jody Watley & Shalamar. I wonder will this wind up in court. Would be awesome to see the original unit together but I doubt t hat will ever happen 97019702

[rod_rick]

Currently Howard Hewitt and Jeffrey Daniels are touring with a young lady as Shalamar while Jody Watley is on tour with two young men as Jody Watley & Shalamar. I wonder will this wind up in court. Would be awesome to see the original unit together but I doubt t hat will ever happen 97019702

It just might end up in court. From everything I've from Jody she owns the name and trademark for Shalamar.

[Bluebrock]

Howard was the voice whilst Jody was the image. I think of the two I would prefer to see Howard's group but I wouldn't turn my nose up at Jody's!!

[luke]

Who owns the name?

[mellow_q]

The “young lady” with Howard and Jeffrey is Carolyn Griffey, the daughter of Carrie Lucas and Dick Griffey, who owned Solar Records – the label that Shalamar recorded on during its late70s/early 80s heyday.
When Dick Griffey was either in failing health, or upon his death, the rights to the name “Shalamar” were passed down to Carolyn.
Apparently, through either some loophole, or maybe Carolyn letting time elapse on the renewal of the trademark, Jody Watley stepped in and now apparently owns the trademark.
Carrie Lucas wrote something of a scathing piece on Facebook about the situation and this appears to be headed to court.

I have copied her [[poorly edited) remarks below …

THE TRUTH ABOUT SHALAMAR

Shalamar as a group, began with the late, great, Don Cornelius and my husband, the late, great, Dick Griffey. They both purchased the name Shalamar in mid 1970's with their newly formed label "Soul Train Records". The very first Shalamar song, "Uptown Festival", was performed by a group of studio musicians. The late, Gary Mumford and other session singers. It's producer asked Dick if he would like to use the session song. Don and Dick purchased rights and ownership of Shalamar. "Shalamar" was a song, there was no group.

My husband was one of the premier Black promoters and booked the "Fabulous Forum" and like venues across the U.S. with such super stars like Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson & The Miracles, O' Jays, Al Green, others and a young mega-talented group, "The Jackson 5", at the "Cow Palace" in San Francisco.

Dick an entrepreneur, became friends with Don and coordinated talent for his "Soul Train" show. After purchasing rights to the "Shalamar" name, they needed a "face" and "group" to perform their purchased hit. Don and Dick placed two young, talented "Soul Train" dancers and paired them with original session singer, Gary Mumford. Shalamar became an official group. However, Don's main focus was his show and he wanted out of their "Soul Train Record" partnership.

Dick bought Don's interest in "Soul Train Records" and "Shalamar". In 1977, Dick signed Shalamar to the new label he founded, "SOLAR Records".
Album covers and artist's likeness, as members of "Shalamar", are not personal pictures. Photo sessions were arranged and paid for by SOLAR, under recording contracts, fulfilling group obligations. Professional images belonged to SOLAR Records. Contracts willingly entered, signed and paid for, does not entitle ownership.


An original female member, selected and put in "Shalamar", quit the group in 1983 for a successful solo career . Never performing as a regular member of "Shalamar", for 30 years. After 30 years, an undetected 2013 filing process now challenged, allowed claim of "ownership", of the very group and label that launched their solo career.

Everyone worked hard for the success of "Shalamar", and every former member has the right to work as former members. But no one worked harder than Dick, and no one has the right to profess ownership of something Dick created, sacrificed for and poured our money into.


In 1984, Dick spearheaded a nationwide talent search to replace the female member of "Shalamar". A new female lead was placed in the group,and "Shalamar", received their biggest pop hit in 1984 and a Grammy Award with the new lineup.

"Shalamar", continued recording and performing. Mr. Griffey adding all consecutive members. Eventually, some SOLAR music catalog was sold. No groups were sold. Over the last 35 years, Dick never forfeited his ownership of "Shalamar", and monitored it's use and goodwill, including placing our daughter, Carolyn, at "Shalamar's" helm and performing for the last 15 years in "Shalamar". Although failing health began to lessen involvement, Dick maintained mentoring of "Shalamar", until his death in September of 2010. There is no moral credit or right to recent filings of so called "ownership" of "Shalamar", already purchased and administered by Dick Griffey since 1977.

A legal challenge to that process is filed and registered. In defense of what my late husband fought long and hard to accomplish, our family will press forward for the return of our rightful legacy. - Carrie Lucas - Griffey

[alanh]

Thanks Marc - fascinating.

[Jerry Oz]

What a mess. And the wheels on the musical bus go 'round and 'round, just like they have forever.

[roger]

SHALAMAR were huge in the UK in the early '80s [[and I'm talking major "Pop" success here that went way beyond your typical R&B/Soul audience).

They had 4 UK Top 10 hits ....

"I Can Make You Feel Good" reached #7
"A Night To Remember" reached #5
"There It Is" reached #5
"Dead Giveaway" reached #8.

And in the middle of those there was "Friends" which reached #12.

In addition to those they had 13 other UK chart hits including "I Owe You One" that reached #13, "Take It To The Bank" that reached #20 and "Disappearing Act" that reached #18.

They were all over the radio and were regular performers on "Top Of The Pops" in Britain for at least 5 years and the name is still a major draw here for any '70s/'80s "Soul" review.

I think I would be happy seeing either line-up, though the Hewitt/Daniels/Griffey version does seem a bit more "authentic". And as Jody Watley had quite a successful solo career after leaving the group I would suggest that she renames her act to something like "Jody Watley and her Shalamar Review" [[much as Dennis Edwards bills himself vis-à-vis The Temptations) then I think everyone would be happy.

:)

Roger

[marv2]

I am trying to understand why is she doing this?

[Jerry Oz]

I am trying to understand why is she doing this?
She is bitter. If Howard Hewitt was on fire, she wouldn't do him the favor of pissing on him. She'd be more than happy to dispense with it if he had already had the fire put out, though.

BTW: I'd love a comprehensive boxed set of SOLAR records. Shalamar, Lakeside, the Whispers, Klymaxx, Dynasty, the Deele, and more? That's an entire era of my life.

[marv2]

I found a couple of clips of Jody's group and all I can say is Howard and them don't have much to worry about.....................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEiZNzaMKCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_GfgXeJdmk

[dvus7]

I am trying to understand why is she doing this?

I totally AGREE...Ms.Whately[[sp) made it a point NOT to do SHALAMAR songs in HER concerts!! she set the precedent!!!

[marv2]

It just might end up in court. From everything I've from Jody she owns the name and trademark for Shalamar.

Here's an interview with the new group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdXE1caA4Z0

[alanh]

All very confusing and not necessary. It appears that Jody's group - Jody Watley, Nate Allen Smith and Rosero McCoy - seem to be billed as 'Shalamar Reloaded' on their website, although the name use is inconsistent. The website also suggests they are the 'official' version.
http://www.shalamarofficial.com/#!/bio
Another website - www.shalamar.biz has the statement:
SHALAMAR ® A registered trademark of Jody Watley 2014 featuring Jody Watley, Nate Allen Smith and Rosero McCoy. Past: Original members featured former Soul Train dancers Jody Watley and Jeffrey Daniel. Gary Mumford, Gerald Brown, Howard Hewett, Micki Free, DeLisa Davis and Sidney Justin. Originally created by Soul Train visionary creator and host Don Cornelius and Dick Griffey in 1977.

They've just released a new single 'SlowDance' through Avitone Records, the label that Jody Watley's on.

I see the Hewitt/Daniels/Griffey version is still actively touring and have been in the UK recently too, as was the other version in May!

I bet the public are confused. I am too.

[glencro]

I really believe it is out of spite on Jody's part. Though not very successful, her last two recordings were very good. I saw her in concert when she first went solo and she put on an amazing show. She seemed to have not wanted anything to do with Shalamar all of these years and now all of a sudden here they are. I'm sure that it will definitely wind up in court. Reminds me of the situation with Sister Sledge.

[theboyfromxtown]

I found a couple of clips of Jody's group and all I can say is Howard and them don't have much to worry about.....................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEiZNzaMKCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_GfgXeJdmk

I agree. What a shame.

[Guy]

I love Jody Watley. I have long been enthralled with her as an artist and a performer. One of my favorite concerts ever is seeing her on her "Larger Than Life" tour way back when. She has a tremedous catalog as a solo artist and a musical legacy to be proud of.

Now with all that out of the way, I am completely confounded why she would take this step since she spent most of her career disavowing her time with Shalamar, and occasionally even disparaging others connected to the group, its record label and its management. It feels wrong. She can rightly perform the Shalamar songs -- which she pointedly declined to do the 6 or 7 times I've seen her over the last 26 years -- without purporting to perform under the 'Shalamar' name. The bitter truth is that Howard Hewett is the voice of Shalamar. Maybe Jody's long, flowing wigs have given her whiplash.

[Soul Sister]

It's sad when this happens. They should just get back together. They'd draw bigger audiences and make more money.
It sucks when original members divide and have separate groups on the road.
Too many have done this and disappointed fans.

S.S.
***

[blackguy69]

I do wonder why she is doing this now. I don't think she's bitter since her solo career overshadowed shalamars' entire career. So obviously something happened that made her take this path. So before everyone starts playing the blame game, find out why she did it. Howard maybe the voice of shalamar, but that basically all he has. Sounds familiar

[Jerry Oz]

She revealed that she is very bitter on TV-One's "Unsung" episode about Shalamar. She felt that Dick Griffey treated Howard Hewitt better than he treated her and Jeffery Daniel. I think some of it was the fact that Hewitt came to the group after its first album and hit, do she didn't appreciate his attitude our his being anointed HNIC.

And she thought that Daniel felt the same way that she did, so it hurt her when he joined Hewitt in a Shalamar reunion tour. Go to YouTube and look out up. She has videos where she explains very clearly how bitter she is. It's accurate to state that she truly hates the air that Hewitt breathes.

With that being said, she's held up great over the years. She looks better now than she did 20 years ago.

[arr&bee]

Only two???heck there are about ten versions of the drifters and coasters i bet,hehehe.

[blackguy69]

You do know alot of unsung was edited. I saw her unfiltered in which she broke it and said what was on her mind , what was cut out, etc. But what's done is done she has the trademark. Unless a court overturns, not much they can do

[Jerry Oz]

I know. I like "Unsung" but there's no way you can put the story of the relationships and careers of successful musicians into a 43 minute narrative. The gaps in the stories are huge and when you have five guys [[for example), there are legitimately five versions of the truth. The producers normally find one that they like and ignore the others.

[marv2]

Only two???heck there are about ten versions of the drifters and coasters i bet,hehehe.


Now don't even get me started on the Delfonics and the Dramatics..............

[blackguy69]

Also there is no record of Dick Griffey, Carolyn Griffey, or Solar records ever owning the name Shalamar.

[Soul Sister]

R & B and Marv2,
Let's not forget, The Manhattans did too, The Platters, The Intruders, The Temptations, The Ink Spots, The Shirells at one point, Arlene Smith singing solo and The Chantels putting in a new lead as well. And more................ GRRR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

S.S.
***

[marv2]

R & B and Marv2,
Let's not forget, The Manhattans did too, The Platters, The Intruders, The Temptations, The Ink Spots, The Shirells at one point, Arlene Smith singing solo and The Chantels putting in a new lead as well. And more................ GRRR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

S.S.
***

Sister that is true. In fact I remember when there were 3 distinct Shirelles acts [[of the real original members) touring at one time. I don't include the imposters or the ones pretending to be the Marvelettes.

[arr&bee]

Yep,remember the story years ago when the great[ben e.king]was on a show with the [drifters-wink-wink]and they asked him to come backstage,well when he got there he didn't know any of em.

[Roberta75]

R & B and Marv2,
Let's not forget, The Manhattans did too, The Platters, The Intruders, The Temptations, The Ink Spots, The Shirells at one point, Arlene Smith singing solo and The Chantels putting in a new lead as well. And more................ GRRR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

S.S.
***

And Mary Wilson and Roberta Flack and Dione Warwicks touring the UK with these here 30 something year old Drifters Soul Sister. smh just smh. They probably wasnt even alive when the Under The Boardwalk was even released. http://www.theofficialdrifters.com/

[marv2]

Yep,remember the story years ago when the great[ben e.king]was on a show with the [drifters-wink-wink]and they asked him to come backstage,well when he got there he didn't know any of em.

LOL! I can believe it! I went to see the Spinners a few years ago and as I sat in the audience it struck me that most of the group was now younger than me! The Spinners had their first release when I was around 1 years old. LOL!

[marv2]

And Mary Wilson and Roberta Flack and Dione Warwicks touring the UK with these here 30 something year old Drifters Soul Sister. smh just smh. They probably wasnt even alive when the Under The Boardwalk was even released. http://www.theofficialdrifters.com/


The Truth in Music Act does no apply outside of the United States.

[westgrandboulevard]

Have there ever been instances where a known solo artist has discovered that someone else was giving performances, using the name of that solo artist?

If it's a group involved, words such as 'business', 'legal', 'ownership' and 'trademark' are often used.

If it were to be a solo artist, would it appear to be outright fraud?

[Roberta75]

The Truth in Music Act does no apply outside of the United States.

Peoples integrity should apply outside the USA. Mary Wilson fought fake groups for years its real hypocriitical for her to appear with these fake Drifters imo.

[marv2]

Peoples integrity should apply outside the USA. Mary Wilson fought fake groups for years its real hypocriitical for her to appear with these fake Drifters imo.

Tell that to the United States government and leave the beautiful, talented and legendary Mary Wilson alone.........

[marv2]

Have there ever been instances where a known solo artist has discovered that someone else was giving performances, using the name of that solo artist?

If it's a group involved, words such as 'business', 'legal', 'ownership' and 'trademark' are often used.

If it were to be a solo artist, would it appear to be outright fraud?

I heard that there was an act that toured for a hot seconded called "Martha Reeves' Vandellas" before it was squashed.

[westgrandboulevard]

By Martha herself, given half a chance.....;)

[Roberta75]

Tell that to the United States government and leave the beautiful, talented and legendary Mary Wilson alone.........

The United States goverment have no duristriction outside of the USA. Its Mary Wilson that should be protecting her integrity by refusing to appear on a stage with fake Drifters.

[arr&bee]

I think that maybe the only one who still has a right to that name[the drifters]is charlie thomas, he may be the only one still alive who sang with them in thier heyday hitmaking period.

[marv2]

By Martha herself, given half a chance.....;)

Oh she raised all kind of hell over it once she found out about it.

[Jerry Oz]

There's a documentary about the Sugar Hill Gang called "I Want My Name Back". It shows how Sugar Hill Records owned the name and copyrights to all of the group's records. Consequently, only one of the original three rappers toured with the act until his death recently. The other two have been sued silly by the label's owner and can't even perform records that they wrote on film. The others who toured as the act consisted of the label owner and one of his friends.

[reese]

Have there ever been instances where a known solo artist has discovered that someone else was giving performances, using the name of that solo artist?

If it's a group involved, words such as 'business', 'legal', 'ownership' and 'trademark' are often used.

If it were to be a solo artist, would it appear to be outright fraud?

I read an interview with Carla Thomas where she said she ran into Ben E. King, and he told her that he had just seen someone performing as her on the West Coast. This was early in her career. I gather in the days before regular tv appearances this might have been something that happened often.

I also remember reading that in the late 60s, a woman pretended to be Aretha Franklin for a concert and no one asked for a refund.

[roger]

Have there ever been instances where a known solo artist has discovered that someone else was giving performances, using the name of that solo artist?

If it's a group involved, words such as 'business', 'legal', 'ownership' and 'trademark' are often used.

If it were to be a solo artist, would it appear to be outright fraud?

I'm sure I read an article about BEN E KING in "Blues & Soul" some years ago [[early '70s?)where he said he had been to see "himself" when he found out he was supposedly appearing in a town he was passing through. From what I recall the imposter was an old friend of his and as Ben thought he was putting on a good show he kept quiet about it.

And ... didn't LEE GARRETT specialise in doing an impersonation of STEVIE WONDER [[with Stevie's knowledge) that was so authentic that most people went away thinking they had seen the real thing?

Roger

[stingbeelee]

If these Drifters touring with Mary Wilson are the Treadwell family trademark Drifters, then they are the official Drifters overseas. The Treadwell family took the Drifters trademark overseas; I believe Johnny Moore was the lead singer for the Treadwell family Drifters for years over in England...

[Roberta75]

If these Drifters touring with Mary Wilson are the Treadwell family trademark Drifters, then they are the official Drifters overseas. The Treadwell family took the Drifters trademark overseas; I believe Johnny Moore was the lead singer for the Treadwell family Drifters for years over in England...

They may have the official name but they not the real drifters. They werent alive when all the drifters hits was on the charts. Check them out. Theese are the ones Mary Wilsons performing with. So much for her Truth in Music stand. http://www.theofficialdrifters.com/the-group/

[marv2]

They may have the official name but they not the real drifters. They werent alive when all the drifters hits was on the charts. Check them out. Theese are the ones Mary Wilsons performing with. So much for her Truth in Music stand. http://www.theofficialdrifters.com/the-group/

The Truth in Music legislation does not apply outside of the United States. They will be performing in the UK, in Europe. Mary Wilson, not even Pres. Obama can enforce laws in the United States on other countries.

[RobertZ]

They may have the official name but they not the real drifters. They werent alive when all the drifters hits was on the charts. Check them out. Theese are the ones Mary Wilsons performing with. So much for her Truth in Music stand. http://www.theofficialdrifters.com/the-group/
Well, remember she also gave an interview for the Supremes Christmas CD talking about how much she loved making the album - which she did not sing a note on.

[REDHOT]

I'm team Jody Watley,love her music,love Shalamar Reloaded too,they're new single Slow Dance,is gettin' a lot of play.love it,hey Marv,i see that clown is postin' a lot of hate,on Mary Wilson on this post lol,the topice is about Shalamar,and hes bringing up Mary Wilson,i think he has 2 names lmao

[Jerry Oz]

Before you start, I reread all of Marv's posts in this thread and he didn't throw shade on Mary Wilson once. Please do not derail this thread by trying to start a fight. If it's that important, then you can PM him about what's on your mind. Calling anyone a "clown" is immature and uncalled for. Knowing that Marv won't take your bait compels me to speak up for him.

Thank you for not diverting the topic.

[RobertZ]

I'm never a fan of the "tribute" etc groups; I just feel bad for anyone less aware that spends $ to see a band/group etc and gets a random group of performers, no matter how talented. I think the best way perhaps is to use the word "Tribute" in the group name. It's ironic that we read stories from the early 60's about multiple iterations of Ikettes, Bluebelles, etc on tour - and it still goes on today. But I guess each case is it's own particular case.

[REDHOT]

I didn't call Marv a clown,the person who tryed to changed the topic,to a put down Mary Wilson post, knows who he is,he goes from post to post,keepin up mess,playin' nice but nasty,i think he even has 2 different names,yes hes a clown.

[Jerry Oz]

Gotcha. He gets personally trolled more than anybody around here and I don't want to see another thread devolve into name calling and seventh grade BS.

[midnightman]

Who owns the name?

Jody does.

[midnightman]

Also there is no record of Dick Griffey, Carolyn Griffey, or Solar records ever owning the name Shalamar.

I know. If Dick Griffey/Solar [[or Universal now?) owned the name, you'd think they tell Jody, Howard and Jeffrey not to use it.

Also, Shalamar didn't start off with Howard. Jody and Jeffrey were the original members. Gary Mumford was the first lead vocalist [[1976-77) and Gerald Brown was the second [[1977-79) before Howard joined after Gerald left due to royalty disputes with Dick over his original contract when he was with the Soul Train Gang. Also Shalamar was "put together", I don't think they had a valid contract and they were working on trying to get one when Dick abruptly kicked Gerald out of the group [[he never quit the group).

[midnightman]

There's a documentary about the Sugar Hill Gang called "I Want My Name Back". It shows how Sugar Hill Records owned the name and copyrights to all of the group's records. Consequently, only one of the original three rappers toured with the act until his death recently. The other two have been sued silly by the label's owner and can't even perform records that they wrote on film. The others who toured as the act consisted of the label owner and one of his friends.

Yeah I remember seeing the trailer. I wonder if the video has been posted on YouTube. Wonder Mike and Master Gee has been fighting to get their name back for years. Big Bank Hank died, I think, two years after the documentary aired.