Kendrick Lamar - "To Pimp A Butterfly"

[soulster]

Fantastic new concept album by a fantastic artist. The music itself is a wonderful pastiche of 70s funk and jazz. Critically acclaimed. Broke streaming records this week. I love it, and want to buy a copy of it. So, why do I hesitate?

Mr. Lamar decided to litter...not sprinkle...LITTER virtually every track with the n-word, often in every line of the song, which is a shame. You know, there was a lively discussion about that word, and other racial/ethnic slurs on Joe Madison's XM radio show this morning.

People think we can eliminate the sting of the epithet by constantly repeating it, yet we expel White kids from school if they dare say it, or fire White people for saying it on the job. Get a clue people!!! How can we expect White people to stop saying it when WE Black people keep saying it? You all sit around with your buddies and use it endearingly, but don't let a White person say it! You'll want to clock 'em! It doesn't matter who says it, it's still is an insult to Black people, and always will be. It doesn't mean anyone acting stupid. It doesn't mean anyone who is a criminal. It means Black people! Stop using that word! Quit giving others the excuse!

The sad part is that Mr. Lamar isn't going to lose sales because of it.

Rant over!

[splanky]

I'd been arguing this same point with people for over 25 years in my personal life and even
sometimes on this very website but you know what?....I give up!...Because I know that all of
us are only human beings I know, as I've said before, that there is probably not one group of
people that doesn't have a belief, practice or tradition that they wouldn't do better to let go
of and for black people this would be it. Still I think it might be too late. The practice is too
ingrained. I think female genital circumcision in West Africa, one child policies in China,running of the bulls in Spain, hell, pick a place, will all end before people stop tossing
out the N-word like it's a common pronoun. I really believe it all goes back to what W.E.B.
Dubois used to describe as the black double consciousness. Only life back then was closer
to simple arithmetic. We're living in trigometry days now...

[Jerry Oz]

Well, now Terrance Howard wants to add it to the dialog of his hit show 'Empire' to make it more authentic. I have zero intention of supporting a show or its sponsors if they're associated with trying to 'keep it on the real' to that extent. Even if you believe that the rappers and industry insiders talk that way in real life, why wouldn't you use all of the other invective language and pejoratives they use in their regular conversations? Because the network won't let you drop 'motherf***er' on the air in primetime. So since you can't keep it 100% real, read what's on the page and shut up.

I stopped buying hip hop when the albums I purchased had an abundance of language that was far more profane than that on the radio tracks that I liked. I understand art and perspective, but at some point I could no longer relate to the artists or their world views so I found other things to appreciate.

Richard Pryor made the use of that word more acceptable after he blew up in the '70s. Since then, most Black comics think that swearing and using the word is automatically funny or gives them credibility with their audiences. People forget that his 'Live On the Sunset Strip' had his accounting of his trip to Africa wherein he looked around and saw thousands of Black faces and not one of them was a n*****. So he refused to use the word again in his act.

In the Bible, Hosea writes that 'my people [[God's people) are destroyed for lack of knowledge'. Taken out of a religious context, that is the problem in the world today. Not just for African-Americans, but for every small minded person who can be persuaded to hate himself or anybody who is different. We see it in the Middle East as well as in the hateful rhetoric that comes from the Tea Party. And we've seen it since slavery for self-hating Black people in the US.

[soulster]

I hear you, Jerry! I do buy hip-hop, and can accept a certain amount of profanity, as I guess I have a higher threshold than most people I know. But, for the n-word, I have a low tolerance for it. If I hear it once or twice on an album, I can deal with it. But not in literally every line, like in Kendrick Lamar's new album.

I can handle "All In The Family" because the Archie Bunker character used all of the slurs equally. He was an equal-opportunity bigot.

Hmmm...next time I encounter a non-Black person who uses that n-word in my presence, I am going to return the favor by using a slur against them and see how they react. Next time some white person says "anyone can be a n***er", i'll say that "anyone can be a..."and run down the long list of slurs., and see how they respond.

[Jerry Oz]

The funny thing about self-depreciation is the fact that although many see it as a Black thing, it's not. Go in any ethnic community and you'll hear it. Many Italians, Puerto Ricans, Jews, Poles, gays, lesbians, feminists, and Appalachians call themselves the commonly known words that are simply not acceptable for everybody to use. But these folks will beat you down if you use the words because it's something between them. It's the same with the n-word. As far as I'm concerned, any label that can be used in a hateful manner is unacceptable regardless of who is using it.

[soulster]

The funny thing about self-depreciation is the fact that although many see it as a Black thing, it's not. Go in any ethnic community and you'll hear it. Many Italians, Puerto Ricans, Jews, Poles, gays, lesbians, feminists, and Appalachians call themselves the commonly known words that are simply not acceptable for everybody to use. But these folks will beat you down if you use the words because it's something between them. It's the same with the n-word. As far as I'm concerned, any label that can be used in a hateful manner is unacceptable regardless of who is using it. On the Joe Madison show, he made it clear that Jews will NOT use the k-word, not even privately amongst themselves. Now, id they can change things, why can't Black people?

[Jerry Oz]

Exactly. Labels have no useful purpose in society other than to remind people that you can't change the past. There are other labels that I find offensive, if not as stirringly overt as the n-word. Black people referring to others as Uncle Toms, Oreos, high yellas, wannabes, and 'country' serve no purpose other than to either bring another down or to elevate oneself at the expense of another. All the use of these labels does is lower the person who spits them at others.

[splanky]

[QUOTE=soulster

Hmmm...next time I encounter a non-Black person who uses that n-word in my presence, I am going to return the favor by using a slur against them and see how they react. Next time some white person says "anyone can be a n***er", i'll say that "anyone can be a..."and run down the long list of slurs., and see how they respond.[/QUOTE]

It's a good thing you live where you do, soulster, because here in the northeast folks of
just about every ethnic group whether Puerto Rican,Dominican, Arab, Mexican, Chinese,Indian, even some Irish, Polish and Italian use that word EVERY day and many
black folks use it frequently in conversation with white people. I never got that but it happens so often on my job I've learned to ignore it for the most part or at least pretend to...

[soulster]

It's a good thing you live where you do, soulster, because here in the northeast folks of
just about every ethnic group whether Puerto Rican,Dominican, Arab, Mexican, Chinese,Indian, even some Irish, Polish and Italian use that word EVERY day and many
black folks use it frequently in conversation with white people. I never got that but it happens so often on my job I've learned to ignore it for the most part or at least pretend to...

I work in the corporate world. You use that word and you could be severely disciplined, up to "separation".

Once in a while I will come across a White or Mexican who thinks that, because I am Black, that they can openly use the word, as if all Black people use it, and are comfortable with it. And, if they do, I let them know in no uncertain terms that they shall never use it in my presence again! I do not use it. Never have. It was never uttered in my home when I was growing up.

Just in case you were wondering, the area I live in is quite diverse, with the majority being Korean and Japanese. The third largest group is White, then Latino of Mexican decent.

[soulster]

An interesting commentary about the n-word:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/23/opinions/holmes-n-word/index.html

[Jerry Oz]

Interesting article, but nothing that most of us didn't already know. As with anything, context of a conversation is more important than the words used in it. I can watch 'Blazing Saddles' every day for the next week and I'll laugh my ass off each time. The word is used in that film to show how stupid prejudices are, not to exclude or belittle anybody. Used in a different context, however, and it becomes hate speech and commemorative of a darker time in our nation's history.

I've been called that word exactly twice in situations where I honestly feel my life was at risk because of who was using it and when. Anybody who suggests that it is anything other than hateful is full of shit. The sad part about people like Kendrick Lamar using it is that it shows that otherwise creative artists take the path of least resistance to writing. He was using it in a provocative way but could have used his talents better to the same end.

[splanky]

Actually it's become a moot point by now because Kendrick's release has turned into a major
hit and has recieved praise from every corner from Tom Joyner to The New York Times. Regardless of his language but then that shouldn't be a surprise; look at the superstar status
of Jay Z for instance. I know maybe 10 percent of black people who don't use the word on
a daily basis, hell hourly I should say...And I know quite a few of my favorite musicians and or singers, George Clinton, Smokey Robinson , i.e...who also use it so I know it's not something that will stop in my lifetime. Instead of the Starbucks fiasco the real conversation
about race really would do good to begin INTRA-racially. Black people need to talk about why they accept the proliferation of a slur as a common identifier for themselves and then
look at what else they allow in their own communities. Sure, I know somewhere in America
there will be another incident of white on black assault. I also know what happens in many
places everyday...Let the music play....

[soulster]

Splanky, you have the advantage of being around Black folk. I am not, so, outside of the few I know who do not use the word, I cannot say how frequently the average Black person does use it.

What I do find comical is how a Black person will call a White person that word too.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/05/us/kentucky-player-racial-slur/index.html

What is also not OK is how non-Blacks continue to think that a n***er can be anyone.

[Jerry Oz]

And speaking of that:

Kentucky [[http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/96/kentucky-wildcats) guard Andrew Harrison [[http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/66615/andrew-harrison) has apologized for uttering an obscenity and a racial slur as a question about Wisconsin's Frank Kaminsky [[http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/56769/frank-kaminsky) was being asked Saturday night during a postgame news conference at the Final Four.

Harrison and the Wildcats were upset 71-64 [[http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400787769) by the Badgers, spoiling their quest to complete a perfect season.

After the game, Harrison was sitting at the interview table with his brother, Aaron [[http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/66614/aaron-harrison), directly to his left and forward Willie Cauley-Stein [[http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61842/willie-cauley-stein) directly to his right.

A reporter directed a question about Kaminsky toward Kentucky's Karl-Anthony Towns [[http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3136195/karl-anthony-towns): "Karl, could you talk about Kaminsky and what if anything is unique about defending him?" the reporter said.

Near the end of the question, a live microphone picked up Harrison muttering "F--- that n----" as his hand covered his mouth.

Social media immediately lit up with questions about what Harrison said accompanied by video clips of his response. The AP reviewed an audio recording of the press conference, and the phrase is audible, but muffled. The team planned to speak with Harrison.

"We have no comment until we have had a chance to evaluate it," Kentucky spokesman Eric Lindsey said.

[soulster]

From what i've been reading, more people are upset that he used the "f" word, rather than the "n" word.

[jboy88]

I just heard this album on Spotify the other day, and gratuitous profanity and n word aside, this album is fantastic! Everything that's been missing from mainstream R&B and hip-hop is there. The soul the funk, the heart,everything. It's no "What's Going On" but it's certainly one of the best albums produced in my lifetime!

[soulster]

I couldn't bring myself to buy the album, but I found it at my local library, so I rented it and...