Martha & Vandellas -67 and 68

[sup_fan]

i've had most of the Vandellas albums on cd, Black Magic is just wonderful. the others i've only listened to now and then. decided the other day to play the Singles Collection in sequence. man they really have some great songs from the period of 67 and 68.

in reading liner notes, Martha's book, etc i've been trying to figure out what some of the contributions to their slow decline in record sales.

*i like the "southern" theme in Honey Chile, I Promise to Wait my Love, Sweet Darlin'
*wonder if they suffered from too many "2 sided singles" - I Promise To Wait My Love and Forget Me Not, You've Been In Love Too Long and Love makes me Do Foolish things. seems like these B sides could have held their own as A's. and then not pull chart play from the actual A's

of course i know Martha had quite a few personal issues that were building up during this time. Also wonder if they could have taken her into a more Soul direction. by 67 and 68, R&B music was becoming more assertive and some of her songs are little light-weight

[RossHolloway]

The departure of HDH hurt not only the Supremes, the Four Tops but also Martha & The Vandellas. It seems that all the artists that worked the closest with HDH suffered the most. Also around this time frame Smokey's songs weren't hitting as big as they had been in years prior. The artists working closely with Norman Whitfield seem to have done the best after the departure of HDH: The Temptations, Gladys Knight & The Pips and Marvin Gaye. Stevie Wonder was coming into his own then and writing more/most of his material.

[antceleb12]

To add onto Ross' points, by 1967, Gordy's promotional attention was directed more than ever toward the Supremes [[Diana Ross). I'm also fairly certain I remember reading something that said that Martha had a pretty big blow out with Gordy that kind of sealed her fate [[along the lines of the post-Diana Supremes).

It's also important to note that, like you said above, soul was becoming more assertive [[Aretha Franklin), and many felt that Motown was "losing its touch," so to speak, in that it no longer represented that growing anger and resentment among those in the Civil Rights movement. While Detroit was being burned to the ground, Motown was playing the Copa. While rioters looted and vandalized shops and homes, the Supremes were in England meeting the queen. Motown's crossover effect had somewhat of an adverse effect during the late sixties. Harder-hitting acts such as Aretha Franklin, the Doors, Janis Joplin, Otis Redding, and others were striking a nerve with an increasingly anxious public. For the most part, Motown still retained its family-friendly formula for making music.

Grant it, Motown acts were still fairing very well compared to former rivals such as the Shirelles, the Ronettes, and the Chiffons. Tastes were changing, but although many Motown acts weren't scoring as much hits as before, they remained top concert draws for quite some time.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Sup_fan, you beat me to the punch! I've been meaning to post a thread regarding Martha & The Vandellas' should-have-been-hit releases but I kept putting it off. [[That'll teach me to proscrinate!) Man, I loved "Wild One". I thought it was a perfect follow-up to "Dancing In The Street". [[It featured the same hot and heavy drums, and the melody was pretty, too). And "You've Been In Love Too Long" is among my fave Motown tracks ever. Martha, The Vandellas/The Andantes, and the horn section are on fire on that one. Motown was gettin' down! I also loved Martha's "Sweet Darlin'", as did everone else who I played it for. Richard Morris did a great job on that record, both lyrically and musically. I so wanted it to be a hit. Dipping into 1969 and beyond, Norman Whitfield's production on Martha's "I've Gotta Let You Go" [[not to be confused with the earlier "I'll Have To Let Him Go") was hot and exciting, and deserved to be a hit. Unfortunately, neither "Sweet Darlin'" nor "I've Gotta Let You Go" even made it onto a Martha album. Such a sad waste! And, finally, skipping ahead to 1972, "Bless You", "In And Out Of My Life", and "Tear It In Down" were all deserving of hit-record status. [["Bless You" did get local radio airplay.)

The AM radio station [[WGVA in Geneva, NY) near where I lived played every Martha Reeves & The Vandellas 45 release faithfully up through and including "Taking My Love [[And Leaving Me) in Fall 1969. Motown released no other singles from "Sugar & Spice", although I would have released "Shoe-Leather Expressway" and "I Love The Man" as single releases had I been in charge of Motown's Quality Control. Inconceivably, Motown released no singles whatsoever from "Natural Resources". In my estimation, "Easily Persuaded" and "The Hurt Is Over" would have made perfect choices for 45 release.

[RossHolloway]

Wasn't there also a post in another thread recently that told the story of Berry Gordy/Motown having Gil Askey revamp Martha & The Vandellas stage show, only to have the group ditch the new shows direction to go back to their old show- which apparently angered Berry Gordy? And wasn't this also the period that Martha had her son [[1969)- which probably didn't sit to well with the image that Motown was trying to project. And didn't Martha also have some type of mental breakdown/drug overdose during this time frame- which probably meant that she was not out there on the road or making tv appearances to promote her records.

[reese]

Inconceivably, Motown released no singles whatsoever from "Natural Resources". In my estimation, "Easily Persuaded" and "The Hurt Is Over" would have made perfect choices for 45 release.

There was one single released from NATURAL RESOURCES. It was I SHOULD BE PROUD b/w LOVE, GUESS WHO. But it didn't chart. And Martha has said promotion of it was pulled because it talked about a Vietnam widow.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

There was one single released from NATURAL RESOURCES. It was I SHOULD BE PROUD b/w LOVE, GUESS WHO. But it didn't chart. And Martha has said promotion of it was pulled because it talked about a Vietnam widow.
Yeah, you’re absolutely right, Reese. I thought of that a few minutes ago. When I went to correct it, you had already done it for me. I really liked "I Should Be Proud". Berry Gordy supposedly yanked promotion on it out of "embarrassment". I don’t get it. I thought it was a great record whose message rang true for a lot of people who had lost loved ones in that horrible war. Thousands of American families could identify with it. "Embarrassment"? Go figure.

[thanxal]

Yeah, you’re absolutely right, Reese. I thought of that a few minutes ago. When I went to correct it, you had already done it for me. I really liked "I Should Be Proud". Berry Gordy supposedly yanked promotion on it out of "embarrassment". I don’t get it. I thought it was a great record whose message rang true for a lot of people who had lost loved ones in that horrible war. Thousands of American families could identify with it. "Embarrassment"? Go figure.
This is why I still like SDF, even with the "dramas" that break out. Here is a song I probably listened to once on the Nat Res LP and it didn't even stick with me, but as a result of this thread I relistened to it and WOW what a great song. Thanks all.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To further drive home my point that Martha Reeves & The Vandellas’ "Easily Persuaded" from their "Natural Resources" LP would have made a great contender for potential single release.... Back in early 1976, a local college Disc Jockey was visiting me at my apartment. [[I honestly can’t remember how or why." He had always loved Motown, although he had regrettably not kept up with Martha & The Vandellas’ later albums. When I played him "Easily Persuaded", he went nuts! He said that he had to leave soon because he was due to broadcast his evening college show within half an hour. He asked if he could borrow my copy of "Natural Resources" so that he could play "Easily Persuaded" on his show that night. I said, "Jeez, I’m sorry, but I don’t loan out my albums any more." [[Been there; done that; never again!) He said, "Well, then come along with me to the radio station and bring Martha’s album with you!" I said, "Sure, why not!" So, along I went. Man, the build-up he gave that song over the airwaves as the intro was playing was something else! Motown should have used us fans as their promotional teams. We would have put Martha and so many other deserving Motown artists back at the top of the charts where they so rightly belonged.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

This is why I still like SDF, even with the "dramas" that break out. Here is a song I probably listened to once on the Nat Res LP and it didn't even stick with me, but as a result of this thread I relistened to it and WOW what a great song. Thanks all.
Yes, indeed, thanxal. Martha did a great job on that record! I especially love her spoken dialogue near the end. It was powerful stuff that brought it all home.

[sup_fan]

Given the material the Tempts were recording around 1970, it's hard to believe Berry would be "embarrassed" by I Should Be Proud. but then maybe it was ok in his mind for the men to sing about these things but not the women

yes, i definitely think that Berry had NO patience for people that were messing around. Wanda of the Marvelettes, Flo, Martha, David Ruffin. in regards to Martha, it might have been a little better had she held her tongue and then not gotten so mixed up with the drugs/breakdown/baby/etc. it would never have altered his pushing Diana. that was irrefutable. but they might have had more promotion.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Wasn't there also a post in another thread recently that told the story of Berry Gordy/Motown having Gil Askey revamp Martha & The Vandellas stage show, only to have the group ditch the new shows direction to go back to their old show- which apparently angered Berry Gordy? And wasn't this also the period that Martha had her son [[1969)- which probably didn't sit to well with the image that Motown was trying to project. And didn't Martha also have some type of mental breakdown/drug overdose during this time frame- which probably meant that she was not out there on the road or making tv appearances to promote her records.

Yes, Ross, the story about Gil Askey’s live-show musical-arrangement changes -- which Martha ended up defiantly ignoring – was very recent [[within the past week or two, I think).

Martha did tend to stand up to Berry more than she probably should have [[bless her heart), demanding to see royalty statements, etc. She had balls! My favorite story was when Berry reminded Martha that she cannot run Motown. And her reply was, "And neither can you!" [[Yikes!) I think a lot of it was provoked, as during the recording of Martha’s
"The Hurt Is Over", Berry reportedly showed up at the recording session and told Martha to "Sing it like Diana!" [[Ouch!) So, who knows which came first – the chicken or the egg? Either way, regardless of who started it, talkin’ down to the boss isn’t gonna earn you any Brownie points on the charts. It’s a shame that it turned out that way. A lot of great Vandellas records suffered on the charts as a result.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Given the material the Tempts were recording around 1970, it's hard to believe Berry would be "embarrassed" by I Should Be Proud. but then maybe it was ok in his mind for the men to sing about these things but not the women

yes, i definitely think that Berry had NO patience for people that were messing around. Wanda of the Marvelettes, Flo, Martha, David Ruffin. in regards to Martha, it might have been a little better had she held her tongue and then not gotten so mixed up with the drugs/breakdown/baby/etc. it would never have altered his pushing Diana. that was irrefutable. but they might have had more promotion.
You’re right, sup_fan. After The Tempt's "Cloud Nine", Martha’s "I Should Be Proud" seemed tame – and just as relevant as Freda Payne’s "Bring The Boys Home" soon after.

[thanxal]

You’re right, sup_fan. After The Tempts’ "Cloud Nine", Martha’s "I Should Be Proud" seemed tame – and just as relevant as Freda Payne’s "Bring The Boys Home" soon after.
I remember being shocked when I first got the "All Directions" album and heard "Run Charlie Run". Quite powerful for its time.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

I remember being shocked when I first got the "All Directions" album and heard "Run Charlie Run". Quite powerful for its time.

Oh, God, yes, thanxal. Norman Whitfield was sure pushin' the envelope with that one. I'm still shocked at its alarmingly-bold lyrics, although, musically, I like it.

And The Tempt's "Take A Stroll Through Your Mind" was blatantly drug-related, yet I love its jazzy, shuffle-beat musical arrangement.

The times were definitely changing. If Martha's "I Should Be Proud" had been released a year later, it might have fared better in Berry's eyes.