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Weslley Francisco
02-05-2015, 01:59 PM
I was watching some videos on YouTube about Martha Reeves, and watched a actual video of her, and I wondered, who is this woman? The voice of Martha is so unstable, it seems breathless, what happened to her voice? She barely can sing Nowhere To Run... :[[


www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEROOTU_v9E

thanxal
02-05-2015, 02:04 PM
She's advanced in age and has been singing for 50+ years? I'm amazed she still has as much energy as she has.

Weslley Francisco
02-05-2015, 02:21 PM
She did some surgery on the vocal cords or something? Her voice changed since 1984 i guess...

luke
02-05-2015, 02:25 PM
I guess it just depends on individual..gladys, mary, scherrie, diana , thelma, datlene and patt etc still sing quite well.Darlene at 73 was fantastic on letterman recently.

luke
02-05-2015, 02:32 PM
Actually this was pretty good for martha.

Roberta75
02-05-2015, 03:09 PM
I was watching some videos on YouTube about Martha Reeves, and watched a actual video of her, and I wondered, who is this woman? The voice of Martha is so unstable, it seems breathless, what happened to her voice? She barely can sing Nowhere To Run... :[[


www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEROOTU_v9E


its real real easy to sit back and say that the First Lady of Motown Records Dr Martha reeves cant sing like she used to. You try performing 10 months of the yaer at darn near 74 years old. Miss Reeves sounds great and shes still thrilling audience all over the world and in huge demmand and shes got the best personality and stage presennse in the business. Her Christmas CD was real real good and I say God bless this great legend.

Roberta

antceleb12
02-05-2015, 03:31 PM
its real real easy to sit back and say that the First Lady of Motown Records Dr Martha reeves cant sing like she used to. You try performing 10 months of the yaer at darn near 74 years old. Miss Reeves sounds great and shes still thrilling audience all over the world and in huge demmand and shes got the best personality and stage presennse in the business. Her Christmas CD was real real good and I say God bless this great legend.

Roberta

What about Patti LaBelle? That woman has been belting her face off for year - constantly pushing the limits and giving phenomenal performances to this day.

I think its a matter of vocal technique and treatment. Depending on how well you treat your voice, combined with how you sing, one can either retain their range and quality or destroy it completely.

The vocal cords is a muscle - a very, very tiny piece of mechanism that is essentially two tiny, thin pieces of paper [[except thinner than paper). When we use our voice, those cords vibrate together. Excess force - shouting, over singing, screaming, etc. - can cause too much friction, resulting in hoarseness, vocal nodules or cysts, or more severe damage. Over an extended period of time, improper care and technique can cause one's vocal quality - range, color, strength, etc. - to diminish. Sometimes, with proper rest and training, the damage can be reversible or halted. Other times, it cannot.

Look at Aretha Franklin and Whitney Houston. Aretha had *THE* voice. Her strength and power were like no one else's. Today, it is almost painful to listen to her. Her range is gone and her tone is no longer as clear and strong as it once was.

Whitney Houston, we all know, abused drugs and cigarettes for years. While that definitely did damage to her voice, I believe the MAIN cause for her vocal demise was her technique. She toured with 'The Bodyguard' for TWO years - a daunting task for most singers. On top of that, all of her material on her tour was limit-pushing - she was belting non-stop, over singing, and pushing through hoarseness. At one point, she developed vocal nodules, but continued with the tour. Singing over nodules is extremely damaging and unhealthy. In general, her technique was not the greatest. Her famous jaw warble was a result of jaw tension. She also had throat tension, over sang [[used her belt too often when she should have used her head voice), and did not rest or take the proper care that her voice needed.

The voice, like any muscle, needs to be warmed up. It needs to be used properly, otherwise damage - be it temporary or permanent - can occur. Think of when athletes damage muscles in football or baseball.

However, what can also happen is adverse health problems can affect the voice. Linda Ronstadt, for example, can never sing again due to her Parkinson's. Medications and surgeries can also be damaging to the vocal cords.

Back to Martha. As powerful and beautiful as her voice was, I can surmise her technique and treatment of her voice contributed to her vocal decline. Either that, or she could have suffered some ill health that contributed to the loss of power and control in her voice.

However, each person and each person's voice is different, and there's no way of us actually knowing what happened, unless we are an ENT that can examine the vocal cords specifically.

BigAl
02-05-2015, 04:42 PM
From what Martha has said to me, she really didn't learn much about how to exercise any big control over her voice until the mid-seventies, when, as she described it, she learned to let her voice be "drawn" from her rather than her "pushing" it out, and this is very evident when you compare her Hitsville tracks with her later ones. She attributed this to her spiritual epiphany. At that time, she gained another octave by not "pushing." Once she got that extra octave it seems like she got to enjoying being able to show it off and would slide all up and down the scales, way into the stratosphere. Eventually, this sort of singing can take its toll on vocal cords. Even Yma Sumac eventually had to rein it in, after all. Martha, however, just kept on belting. Most multi-octave singers [[especially operatic ones, but other singers as well) usually retire from public performance in their fifties or sixties. Martha's not ready to "go gentle into that good night."

daviddesper
02-05-2015, 05:22 PM
antceleb:

Thanks for taking the time to provide that amazing post. It was very informative.

I know too well about how some of my favorites persevere with very little change [[Shirley Bassey for example), whereas others [[Dionne Warwick) are mere shadows of what they once were. As you said, it is all about taking care of the instrument.

As for Martha, it seems to me as if she changed her entire style between the Rest of My Life album and the We Meet Again album, which was only a two-year gap. She went to what I considered at the time to be falsetto, even though that may not be the proper term for it. She continued in that style through the next album [[Gotta Keep Moving) and it appears that she now does even her older stuff in that same higher register.

I didn't like the change when it happened, but I just considered it her personal choice as opposed to having any reasoning behind it. But I will take growly Martha [["I rolled the dice, seven eleven") over the "really like your rap" Martha any day.

thanxal
02-05-2015, 06:49 PM
Antceleb12 is correct.
Each human being is different and so different genetics kicks in. It is very unfair to compare singers against each other and say one aged better than the other because this or that they did during their lifetime. While it is true that lifestyle will affect singing, so will genetics.

As much as I love Motown, none of these singers compares to Ella Fitzgerald in my mind in terms of vocal technique and clarity. Yet toward the end of her career, Ella developed a very audible vibrato. This was largely due to her diabetic condition. No one could say she led a harsh lifestyle. She didn't smoke, no drugs, very little drink. She was overweight, granted, but is that genetics or lifestyle? I would not consider her to have a bad lifestyle but she went from being as clear as a bell and able to hold notes no human should be able to do in her middle Verve years to a terribly jarring vibrato by about the mid-1970s when she was recording for Pablo.

I'm just glad that Ms. Reeves is still singing and performing. I am happy to listen to her, if for no other reason, out of sheer respect.

motown01
02-05-2015, 09:59 PM
I'm just glad that Ms. Reeves is still singing and performing. I am happy to listen to her, if for no other reason, out of sheer respect.

Great words. I completely agree. She's a living legend, and if you watch her in any interview she remembers everyone at Motown and speaks about them often and with great respect.

Mark Desjardines
02-05-2015, 10:36 PM
thanal; You hit the nail on the head when you stated you're just glad that Martha Reeves is still singing and performing, and that you're happy to listen to her out of sheer respect! Many of our favourite entertainers from the 60's who are still performing have morphed into entertainers perhaps more being able to thrill with the impressive vocal powers they once possessed. I'm more than willing to give a pass for the ravages of time when the essence is the performer is still alive and kicking.

Methuselah2
02-05-2015, 11:21 PM
Whenever I hear Martha Reeves interviewed and discussing any and all things Motown, there's one thing about her that always seems to hit me: She is the voice of reason. And that voice is direct, forthright, and open. And she listens very closely and responds honestly and often with a quick wit and sense of humor that doesn't obscure what she's saying but enhances it. It all draws me in; it makes me want to hear what she has to say. And Martha's perspective on Motown and the artists' place within the structure of it repeatedly strikes me as unflinchingly clear and focused; she knows how good she was during that portion of her career but she is just as willing to recognize--and to acknowledge--all the other people and elements that went into making the music so unique and, ultimately, lasting. She seems to effortlessly speak her mind because she's so mindful of what was and is.

Buttered Popcorn and so forth
02-06-2015, 04:53 AM
I never thought of Martha as such a technically great singer, I always just thought she had soooo many good songs! I always prefer great songs sung with emotion rather than boring, "technically" perfect vocals.

motony
02-06-2015, 10:16 AM
Martha Reeves will always be one of the greatest Rock & Soul performers of all time.

Roberta75
02-06-2015, 12:06 PM
Thank you everyone who support the First Lady of Motown Records Dr Martha reeves. Miss Reeves is was and always will be Motowns greatest ambassador and they greatest performer. When i think of Motown i think of Miss Martha Reeves and when she speak of Motown or mr Gordy she always speak real well and in glowing terms. Her voice is great and she's in high demand and she looks great and sounds great and is Motowns best performer imo. the First Lady of Motown Records Dr Martha reeves is almost 74 years old and still putting on a show that has more energy that some of these performers who lip sinc and strut around the stage barely breaking a sweat.

God bless the First Lady of Motown Records Dr Martha Reeves and may God watch over her.

Fondly,

Roberta

kenneth
02-06-2015, 01:57 PM
I love Martha but have trouble listening to her these days.

When I saw Susaye and Scherrie recently, it was amazing to me how little both their voices had changed since their heyday with the Supremes. There was - perhaps - a very slight deepening of tone and I'm not sure but I think neither could hit the highest notes they did in the past, but both their voices sounded virtually identical to their recordings from the Supremes' and "Partners" LPs.

Whether this is because they both took amazing care of themselves [[I'm sure they both did), the fact that they haven't toured constantly like Martha or others, or just because they were both blessed with incredibly supple voices, I don't know. But it's a feat to behold, I can tell you.

Weslley Francisco
02-06-2015, 02:09 PM
Before anyone get me wrong, the reason this thread was not to say that Martha cant sing I was shocked, and also worried, because I had never seen an actual video of her, I thought had happened, an accident or an illness that damaged her voice, but after 50 years singing, she continues singing beautifully, she is one of my favorite singers :)

Roberta75
02-06-2015, 02:42 PM
Before anyone get me wrong, the reason this thread was not to say that Martha cant sing I was shocked, and also worried, because I had never seen an actual video of her, I thought had happened, an accident or an illness that damaged her voice, but after 50 years singing, she continues singing beautifully, she is one of my favorite singers :)


Then em why did you say that Dr Martha Reeves could barely sing Nowhere to Run to?

you are right about Miss Reeves still singing beautifuly cause she does.

Roberta

arr&bee
02-06-2015, 02:59 PM
If i may chime in,the great martha reeves is still amazing,74yrs old fifty plus years on stage with all the reheasing that comes before hitting the stage,many 70 somethings can barley talk or even remember things,and this legend is still outthere god bless her,hell i hope she's still doing it at 100...martha reeves forever!!

Roberta75
02-06-2015, 03:07 PM
If i may chime in,the great martha reeves is still amazing,74yrs old fifty plus years on stage with all the reheasing that comes before hitting the stage,many 70 somethings can barley talk or even remember things,and this legend is still outthere god bless her,hell i hope she's still doing it at 100...martha reeves forever!!

Preach arr&bee preach. Dr martha Reeves is amazing.

Yours, with every good wish.

Roberta

Weslley Francisco
02-06-2015, 03:33 PM
Roberta... 'Cause for me it seems a little breathless, and his voice is a half unstable, she can't sing high notes in linear tone, her voice wavers sometimes... But she's still singing very very very well...

supremester
02-06-2015, 03:44 PM
No one sings like Martha Reeves - case closed!!

Weslley Francisco
02-06-2015, 03:48 PM
Amem... :)

Roberta75
02-06-2015, 04:06 PM
No one sings like Martha Reeves - case closed!!

thank you dear. We know shes the best.

Fondly,

Rioberta

RobertZ
02-06-2015, 04:37 PM
Only semi-related to this thread, but I do wish to encourage all fans of Dr. Reeves to pick up a copy of the recently re-issued "The Rest Of My Life", which is just sublime and I think her mature masterpiece, before it goes out of print.

blueskies
02-06-2015, 08:06 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51F2F2cBMnL._SS500_.jpg
Probably my favorite. If you don't have this one.....it's a keeper....get it!

Methuselah2
02-06-2015, 08:11 PM
Contains the all-time absolutely best version of Van Morrison's WILD NIGHT. It turned up in the movie "Thelma & Louise," too.

jobeterob
02-06-2015, 08:50 PM
Well, Berry Gordy heard this album and wanted Richard Perry to produce Diana Ross because Richard did such a good job [[or Martha did such a good job) on this album!

RobertZ
02-06-2015, 10:21 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51F2F2cBMnL._SS500_.jpg
Probably my favorite. If you don't have this one.....it's a keeper....get it!
It is a wonderful album.

blueskies
02-06-2015, 10:27 PM
Contains the all-time absolutely best version of Van Morrison's WILD NIGHT. It turned up in the movie "Thelma & Louise," too.

I agree, Methuselah.....one of the reasons I love it so much.

Philles/Motown Gary
02-06-2015, 10:29 PM
Only semi-related to this thread, but I do wish to encourage all fans of Dr. Reeves to pick up a copy of the recently re-issued "The Rest Of My Life", which is just sublime and I think her mature masterpiece, before it goes out of print.
I got my copy a few weeks ago, Robert. The CD remastering is excellent. Although my favorite track is still "Second Chance", I found that I love the entire album even more than I had remembered. Martha's voice is in top form, the back-up girls are hot, and every track is a winner. Martha deserved to have a huge hit with this release.

Philles/Motown Gary
02-06-2015, 10:32 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51F2F2cBMnL._SS500_.jpg
Probably my favorite. If you don't have this one.....it's a keeper....get it!

Already got it, blueskies. This album, too, should have been a huge hit for Martha. Richard Perry had Norman Whitfield's "Grapevine" groove down to a tee on Martha's version of "I've Got To Use My Imagination". The entire album is great from start to finish. How it failed on the charts is still beyond me.

kenneth
02-06-2015, 11:38 PM
I got my copy a few weeks ago, Robert. The CD remastering is excellent. Although my favorite track is still "Second Chance", I found that I love the entire album even more than I had remembered. Martha's voice is in top form, the back-up girls are hot, and every track is a winner. Martha deserved to have a huge hit with this release.

I agree! The remastering on all the Funkytowngrooves CDs is just wonderful. The Martha Reeves album is better than I remembered also, just as Gary said. But my favorite is still "Love Blind" which to me is very Vandellas-esque. Loved it then, love it now.

Bokiluis
02-07-2015, 04:14 AM
What about Patti LaBelle? That woman has been belting her face off for year - constantly pushing the limits and giving phenomenal performances to this day.

I think its a matter of vocal technique and treatment. Depending on how well you treat your voice, combined with how you sing, one can either retain their range and quality or destroy it completely.

The vocal cords is a muscle - a very, very tiny piece of mechanism that is essentially two tiny, thin pieces of paper [[except thinner than paper). When we use our voice, those cords vibrate together. Excess force - shouting, over singing, screaming, etc. - can cause too much friction, resulting in hoarseness, vocal nodules or cysts, or more severe damage. Over an extended period of time, improper care and technique can cause one's vocal quality - range, color, strength, etc. - to diminish. Sometimes, with proper rest and training, the damage can be reversible or halted. Other times, it cannot.

Look at Aretha Franklin and Whitney Houston. Aretha had *THE* voice. Her strength and power were like no one else's. Today, it is almost painful to listen to her. Her range is gone and her tone is no longer as clear and strong as it once was.

Whitney Houston, we all know, abused drugs and cigarettes for years. While that definitely did damage to her voice, I believe the MAIN cause for her vocal demise was her technique. She toured with 'The Bodyguard' for TWO years - a daunting task for most singers. On top of that, all of her material on her tour was limit-pushing - she was belting non-stop, over singing, and pushing through hoarseness. At one point, she developed vocal nodules, but continued with the tour. Singing over nodules is extremely damaging and unhealthy. In general, her technique was not the greatest. Her famous jaw warble was a result of jaw tension. She also had throat tension, over sang [[used her belt too often when she should have used her head voice), and did not rest or take the proper care that her voice.

However, what can also happen is adverse health problems can affect the voice. Linda Ronstadt, for example, can never sing again due to her Parkinson's. Medications and surgeries can also be damaging to the vocal
However, each person and each person's voice is different, and there's no way of us actually knowing what happened, unless we are an ENT that can examine the vocal cords specifically.

Whitney's "The Bodyguard Tour" actually lasted 3 years. And Mervyn Warren, the producer of "The Peacher's Wife" said she kept leaving the studio and never finished
one song in a few takes. Narada Michael Walden said she nailed "The Greatest Love of All" in one take.

antceleb12
02-07-2015, 10:04 AM
If i may chime in,the great martha reeves is still amazing,74yrs old fifty plus years on stage with all the reheasing that comes before hitting the stage,many 70 somethings can barley talk or even remember things,and this legend is still outthere god bless her,hell i hope she's still doing it at 100...martha reeves forever!!

That is absolutely not true! Those in their seventies who can't talk or remember things suffer from illnesses. Most people in their seventies are still active and in fine voice.

Bokiluis
02-07-2015, 03:19 PM
Within the record industry, MCA was known as "the M.usic C.emetery of A.merica", where an artist's career goes to die. [[RCA was known as the R.ecording C.emetery of A.merica).
Besides Olivia Newton John, who's rise was more the mid 70s....and possibly their track record with female country artists, I cannot think of any female artists that MCA can be credited with breaking prior to that time.
Not only that, Martha was a well respected R&B/pop artist whose last major success was 5 years before.
MCA was tasked with transforming a female R&B /pop artist into a Pop /r&b artist, which was clearly above their abilities. I am not sure exactly who signed Martha to MCA, but, that person should have walked hand in hand with Martha educating the ranks into his vision.
It seems they A&R'd a great critically acclaimed record, not unlike Minnie Riperton's debut on Chess, "Come to My Garden".....that struggled to find its audience.
"Wild Night" was a great launch. But Martha's success at radio began with R&B. R&B could not be expected to break "Wild Night". "Honey Chile", her last pop success) peaked just under the Top 10 [[#11) at Pop radio....but that was 5 years before in 1967.
So while one could applaud the M.C.A./Publicity Dept. for a good press effort....that same diligence didn't resonate anywhere else at MCA. [[Ironically, decades later Me'Shelle N'degeocello would have a Top 5 Hot 100 hit with "Wild Night". But Me'Shelle already had an eclectic fanbase, let alone an amazing duet partner).

arr&bee
02-07-2015, 07:32 PM
that is absolutely not true! Those in their seventies who can't talk or remember things suffer from illnesses. Most people in their seventies are still active and in fine voice.i said some not all.

RobertZ
02-07-2015, 08:37 PM
I got my copy a few weeks ago, Robert. The CD remastering is excellent. Although my favorite track is still "Second Chance", I found that I love the entire album even more than I had remembered. Martha's voice is in top form, the back-up girls are hot, and every track is a winner. Martha deserved to have a huge hit with this release.
Great comments and I agree 100%! Glad you love the re-release as much as I. Did you have the LP, Gary?

Philles/Motown Gary
02-07-2015, 09:26 PM
Great comments and I agree 100%! Glad you love the re-release as much as I. Did you have the LP, Gary?

Yes I did, Robert. In fact, I received the album as a Christmas gift [[at my request) when it first came out in 1976.

marv2
02-08-2015, 04:42 AM
If i may chime in,the great martha reeves is still amazing,74yrs old fifty plus years on stage with all the reheasing that comes before hitting the stage,many 70 somethings can barley talk or even remember things,and this legend is still outthere god bless her,hell i hope she's still doing it at 100...martha reeves forever!!

Hear, Hear! Miss Martha is legend!

supremester
02-08-2015, 06:10 AM
I was/am a huge Martha fan. No one was looking forward to her first solo LP more than me. Black Magic was my fave of her albums by a mile and I assumed it would get better still. This album was a giant disappointment to me. Nothing against Richard Perry, but if he was a genius, he would not invest so much into a formatting nightmare like this Carole King meets Bettye LaVette at Muscle Shoals mess. Some songs are in the wrong key. One killer radio-friendly track has wretched lyrics [["my dog had some pu-pies. Would you like to have one? He will be your friend and he will lick your face!") Some were annoyingly formula even when it was new. Some are in the wrong key. Perry filters her voice to heavily on most cuts. It had been ten years since her last top 5 hit, and seven since her last top 40 - geez, shouldn't it be just a little bit more tailored to radio than this? Martha's career was teetering on the edge and this project had so much pre-release press for a year, that only an astonishingly unremarkable debut album such as this could have petered out so fast. I know I'm rough on it. I listen to it out of frustration because I have to listen to SOMETHING Martha did, but geez, the only sublime track, Many Rivers To Cross, is not exactly top 40 material - and even it goes into the fade too soon. I wanted a hit for Martha because I want to be able to buy lots of Martha albums, so when I heard this no-hit collection, it was prognosis negative. I prolly would have re-cut the first verse of My Man and sent it out as the lead single with a much longer fade for the album. I think it had the best shot of multi format play. Didn't like the cover much either. -
Already got it, blueskies. This album, too, should have been a huge hit for Martha. Richard Perry had Norman Whitfield's "Grapevine" groove down to a tee on Martha's version of "I've Got To Use My Imagination". The entire album is great from start to finish. How it failed on the charts is still beyond me.

REDHOT
02-08-2015, 08:51 AM
That's just like you Supremeter,nice and nasty at the same time lmao.

supremester
02-08-2015, 09:41 AM
It's not nasty, it's why I think the project failed so miserably. Everyone knows it didn't hit. The industry was anxiously awaiting it - as was I. I was thrilled that MY Martha was finally getting a huge chance to prove her mettle and have a big career. I cared because selfishly, I wanted her to have output like Miss Ross and Gladys - with new tours with her new hits. These are opinions, btw, I shared openly and candidly with Martha in the 70's and she not once thought I was being nasty. She was grateful, in fact, when just a few years after this masterpiece was released, to have Diana Ross' #1 fan bring her food, pot and a little money when she was broke, fired and cut off from room service at her hotel in my city because she showed up with no Vandellas for a two week return gig at The Sheraton Airport Lounge. THAT'S the kind of gig she was happy to get in the late 70's and early 80's. a HUGE talent like hers playing joints.......but she put on a great show each time. I hated the idea of her worrying about money and the like when she had brought so much pleasure to so many. She told me how Motown owed her a bunch of money in royalties and how they screwed with her and Richard Perry to gain her release. I was fascinated.
We also discussed the failure of her Arista project and not once did she, or Miss Ross, mercifully, resort to blame their poor showings on lack of promotion, sabotage or fear of competition. There: THAT was nasty. Happy?

Philles/Motown Gary
02-08-2015, 05:09 PM
I was/am a huge Martha fan. No one was looking forward to her first solo LP more than me. Black Magic was my fave of her albums by a mile and I assumed it would get better still. This album was a giant disappointment to me. Nothing against Richard Perry, but if he was a genius, he would not invest so much into a formatting nightmare like this Carole King meets Bettye LaVette at Muscle Shoals mess. Some songs are in the wrong key. One killer radio-friendly track has wretched lyrics [["my dog had some pu-pies. Would you like to have one? He will be your friend and he will lick your face!") Some were annoyingly formula even when it was new. Some are in the wrong key. Perry filters her voice to heavily on most cuts. It had been ten years since her last top 5 hit, and seven since her last top 40 - geez, shouldn't it be just a little bit more tailored to radio than this? Martha's career was teetering on the edge and this project had so much pre-release press for a year, that only an astonishingly unremarkable debut album such as this could have petered out so fast. I know I'm rough on it. I listen to it out of frustration because I have to listen to SOMETHING Martha did, but geez, the only sublime track, Many Rivers To Cross, is not exactly top 40 material - and even it goes into the fade too soon. I wanted a hit for Martha because I want to be able to buy lots of Martha albums, so when I heard this no-hit collection, it was prognosis negative. I prolly would have re-cut the first verse of My Man and sent it out as the lead single with a much longer fade for the album. I think it had the best shot of multi format play. Didn't like the cover much either. -

No problem, supremester. I didn’t take your review of Martha’s first solo album as being nasty. You were just expressing your opinion. It’s funny how we Motown fans can be so similar and yet so opposite. Your favorite track was "Many Rivers To Cross" – that, and "Dixie Highway", remain my least favorites. Methuselah2 and, I think, somebody else mentioned how much they love "Wild Nights". It, too, was my least favorite track upon my first listening. It sounded too "Saturday-Night-Live"-ish [[progressive rock-ish), although it has since grown on me a lot. There’s nothing horrible on the album, though. My favorite tracks have always been "You’ve Got Me For Company", "Ain’t That Peculiar", "Power Of Love", "My Man [[You’ve Changed My Tune)", and "I’ve Got To Use My Imagination". I still say that Martha’s first solo outing on MCA should have been a hit.

Oh, BTW, that was really nice of you to help Martha out in her time of need. - Gary

supremester
02-08-2015, 06:58 PM
My issue is my own selfishness about the artists I really like: I want them to have hits so they'll keep recording and touring. I didn't hear a hit on here. It's the first thing I'd listen for every time a new Ross album would come out - Where's the hit? I love Wild Night [[lol @ your Sat Nite Live ref)- but it couldn't go R&B easily and Martha couldn't even get play on Bless You - that Motown pushed like mad. Power Of Love is fine, but not original enough. It makes me crazy because Martha had killer pipes. And issues, bless her. Her fight with Richard perry says it all. This dude spent 6 figures wrestling her from Motown and they wound up not speaking for many months - in the middle of recording this album. A lot of people don't connect with Martha's voice - that's why she never sold albums at Motown, so she needs super commercial production to get her on the radio - she just didn't get much of it after Motown. I'm happy that's she's doing well, working a lot and is financially secure.

BayouMotownMan
02-08-2015, 07:58 PM
I happen to think Martha's MCA lp is incredible, maybe a little uneven at times, but it should have established Martha as a solo artist of stature. The lp got rave revues with Billboard saying there wasn't a bad cut on it.

The problem came with packaging and selections of singles. Clearly Wild Night was the standout hit on here but for whatever reason MCA put out Power Of Love instead. That song had only been out a few years prior and Martha's version wasn't all that different. With modest promotion the single made a dent on the Pop chart. By the time Wild Night came out as a single the lp was already losing momentum. Martha's version of Imagination to me is miles better than Gladys's, but MCA held back on that one too. My Man is a fine song, but not commercial for its time. But that was the third release and by this time the album was dead. Even the funk-added to Sweet Misery would have been a better choice for single release.

Martha and I have spoken about this lp many times and she always had glowing things to say about Richard Perry. She never mentioned having a fall out with him. Another problem Martha had with MCA was that she was accustomed to charging everything to her record company while at Motown. MCA wasn't having it. They spent a small fortune getting her out of her Motown contract and they weren't going any further in debt to an artist that was not selling records.

If you catch Martha on YouTube she appeared on Don Kirschner's Rock Concert at the time the lp came out. She had a strong band and some good backing vocalists. But she appears uneasy on stage by herself.

REDHOT
02-08-2015, 08:46 PM
To this day,i still loved the album,what Martha needed was a team,behind her,that she didn't have,i think that Richard Perry did a fine job,on producing the album,Supermester if the story you told is true,about you giving Martha money and all,shame on you for telling us,i would have only told,my close friends,maybe smh.

detmotownguy
02-08-2015, 08:48 PM
"If you catch Martha on YouTube she appeared on Don Kirschner's Rock Concert at the time the lp came out. She had a strong band and some good backing vocalists. But she appears uneasy on stage by herself".

Yea you know she did look a bit uneasy, maybe even a bit stiff; but she did smile a few times. Otherwise, I thought she sounded really strong and really enjoyed the performance.

supremester
02-08-2015, 09:22 PM
IF this story is true??? GFY. Don't get me confused with your bff on here who lies all the time. Personally, I don't GAF what YOU would do in any situation. I never told this story in public for a long time because Martha was struggling. ONE person on this list knew about it at the time and he never told anyone either. Martha is doing very well for herself now and is not embarrassed to admit she had rough times 3 and a half decades ago.

I'm glad you love the album. Unfortunately, you or me liking something doesn't make it hit material. Martha had a tough time selling albums always. Even Dance Party & Watchout! sold poorly considering they had two big hits each. After Watchout!, her Live LP and Riding High barely charted, the next two didn't chart at all, and Black Magic did a little business. The Richard Perry album desperately needed Top 40 friendly material and didn't have any.


To this day,i still loved the album,what Martha needed was a team,behind her,that she didn't have,i think that Richard Perry did a fine job,on producing the album,Supermester if the story you told is true,about you giving Martha money and all,shame on you for telling us,i would have only told,my close friends,maybe smh.

stephanie
02-08-2015, 11:55 PM
I normally dont get into discussions like this but Supremester only said this to prove [[not that Supremester has anything to prove) that people think of him as a ROSS only fan and he wanted to help Martha out and was able to do so. There are many fanatics on the Internet but Supremester walks and walk and talks the talk. I have seen this from years ago and on earlier boards. Never have I seen him out anyone when it comes to personal matters like others have done in the past. Not on Soulful Detroit or any other board. Back to Martha Reeves,,,,,,,When I first got the album I thought the breakout tune was My Man youve Changed my Tune and I thought it would have gone top twenty,, Part of the problem with this album is not that it is bad. The public has always associated Martha with gritty songs like Nowhere to Run and Heatwave and here comes this poppy sounding thing. Loved the cover and the album got a heck of a lot of press. I think the audience wasnt ready for the lack of grit. Talk about not liking a cover I cant remember the title but I went in the record store once and saw Martha on roller skates and there was some song Skating in the Streets!
Sheesh! I couldnt handle it.

supremester
02-09-2015, 01:12 AM
TY Ms Rivers ; ) I wasn't outing Martha and I wasn't bragging that I helped her - most here would have done the same. I brought it up because it was always my fear that, great as she is, w/o hits and w/o live gigs, she'd wind up in trouble - and that's what happened. That's why I listen for the hit first. After I heard ANMHE, I relaxed for side 2. I bit my nails through Everything Is Everything and hoped for Im Still Waiting. Surrender? It was doomed. I also thot My Man was the breakout tune for pop and r&b and maybe A/C. The problem with the song is that she sounds "off" on the first verse. Play it for a stranger and watch their face. Once it picks up - it's a viable commercial possibility. I never saw an LP get as much advance press as this one - all it had to do was deliver a hit or 2.

supremester
02-09-2015, 01:26 AM
I was so happy to hear Wild Night in Thelma & Louise. I wouldn't have led with Wild Night as it wasn't cold enough yet from Van Morrison. Gladys had Imagination out before Martha's album, so that was no good. I'm guessing Martha recorded it first, but don't know. My discussions with Martha on this took place between '78-'82 - she might have been fresher in the memory on it. She told me that Perry demanded over 40 takes of Many Rivers To Cross and she did it live with the choir and tempers got crazy and they didn't speak for months. She thought the LP had been shelved.
I happen to think Martha's MCA lp is incredible, maybe a little uneven at times, but it should have established Martha as a solo artist of stature. The lp got rave revues with Billboard saying there wasn't a bad cut on it.

The problem came with packaging and selections of singles. Clearly Wild Night was the standout hit on here but for whatever reason MCA put out Power Of Love instead. That song had only been out a few years prior and Martha's version wasn't all that different. With modest promotion the single made a dent on the Pop chart. By the time Wild Night came out as a single the lp was already losing momentum. Martha's version of Imagination to me is miles better than Gladys's, but MCA held back on that one too. My Man is a fine song, but not commercial for its time. But that was the third release and by this time the album was dead. Even the funk-added to Sweet Misery would have been a better choice for single release.

Martha and I have spoken about this lp many times and she always had glowing things to say about Richard Perry. She never mentioned having a fall out with him. Another problem Martha had with MCA was that she was accustomed to charging everything to her record company while at Motown. MCA wasn't having it. They spent a small fortune getting her out of her Motown contract and they weren't going any further in debt to an artist that was not selling records.

If you catch Martha on YouTube she appeared on Don Kirschner's Rock Concert at the time the lp came out. She had a strong band and some good backing vocalists. But she appears uneasy on stage by herself.

Philles/Motown Gary
02-09-2015, 01:52 AM
"If you catch Martha on YouTube she appeared on Don Kirschner's Rock Concert at the time the lp came out. She had a strong band and some good backing vocalists. But she appears uneasy on stage by herself".

Yea you know she did look a bit uneasy, maybe even a bit stiff; but she did smile a few times. Otherwise, I thought she sounded really strong and really enjoyed the performance.

Yeah, demotownguy, I discovered Martha's YouTube video performance on "Don Kirschner's Rock Concert" just last week, and I immediately posted it here on the Motown Forum. You're right, Martha seemed a bit stiff but she was vocally impressive. And her back-up singers were super! Those girls could SING! MCA sent her out well supported for her live TV performance. What I found strange was that it seemed as though Martha was trying to change her visual image. Instead of the classy hair-and-gown image portrayed on her MCA album cover, she purposely dressed down to match the progressive rock-crowd style which was popular at the time. Her dress reminded me of Carole King's Tapestry-era dress style, and Martha's hair was in two long braids [[ala early Rita Coolidge [[who I happen to love a lot). The physical image just didn't fit Martha at all in my book. But, again, her performance with the three back-up singers was stellar! And the audience seemed to really love her.

stephanie
02-09-2015, 02:25 AM
The Martha Don Kirshner clip is historical ! Three popular background singers ...James Jamerson and Dennis Coffey! Martha blows on Power of Love....I enjoyed it. Martha was sporting those braids they looked great on her. Her little dance on Power of Love showed she could get down when she wanted to.

Supremester I must be the only nut case when it comes to Ross and her first album. I will take Surrender and Everything is Everything over that first album anyday! Aint No Mountain High Enough and Dark Side of the World are the only songs I can listen to repeatedly. Now on Surrender [[the title track) Did you Read the Morning Paper [[which should have been a single as well and all of the other songs ..And if you See Him....I Could do a Simple Thing Like Cry....she was at her prime vocally..."If I could see a trace of hope somewhere in your eye maybe then I could do a simple thing like crryyy...if it didnt hurt so bad. Im sorry that first album pales compared to Surrender. Everything is Everything well My Place, Baby Its Love with a mean saxaphone, How About you?. Call Me [[she did a great spin on Aretha). I think I may have listened to that first album 8 times in all my life. I have the CDversions of Surrender, Everything and yes the first album just to make it complete. There is no reason on this earth why Black Magic should not have been a hit album. The timing was right and the songs were good. I would have pulled Your Love Makes it All Worthwhile as the first single. Tear it on Down got a lot of play here on the radio. Bless You reminded me too much of the Jackson Five but I liked the song it was a little to juvenile to me for them. Great album cover. This album not selling a lot is one of the biggest crimes in the music world even when I was a little girl on the playground someone had it. Kids have good taste.

supremester
02-09-2015, 05:02 AM
LOL - Good thing we were born on the same day or we'd have nothing in common at all.

1) Everything Is Everything - I like it all but the cringe worthy title track.
2) Diana Ross - It's all good but I only play it occasionally.
3) Surrender - If it wasn't for All The Befores, I'd never play it. I like Can't Give Back The Love enough. I only use the mono single mix of Remember Me.

Black Magic had it all: the best album the group ever did, radio friendly tracks, a cool cover, but a name that hadn't done a thing in too many years. I think Bless You was stupendous - a brilliant production that was ultimately wasted on MR&TV - Ross would have gone to #1 with it, JMC: Top ten. Martha did a killer vocal on it but it was over for them - couldn't get them on TV, on play lists, ....... sad. My singles: Bless You, Tear It On Down, I've Given You The Best Years Of My Life. I'd even have sent Something and No One There to AC. Look how hard it was to get Tina back from oblivion - and she wasn't carting around a 60's name like Vandellas. I think had Black Magic come out a a solo effort, it would have stood a chance. Martha's vocals are stupendous on every track. My least fave is Gordy's Your Love Makes It All Worthwhile and, I can pass on her I Want You Back. The rest is pure gold to me. I plugged that album so hard at Grant High - every dance, every party those songs got out and the response was great [[except for my hippie buds who, for the most part, wanted me to leave my records home.) They couldn't understand how I could sweat Janis and Led Zepplin - yet prefer I'm Still Waiting. LOL.

REDHOT
02-09-2015, 12:54 PM
What a Shame lmao,again you should have kept that to yourself Supremester.

supremester
02-09-2015, 01:53 PM
Please Stay Positive!

detmotownguy
02-09-2015, 03:13 PM
Yeah, demotownguy, I discovered Martha's YouTube video performance on "Don Kirschner's Rock Concert" just last week, and I immediately posted it here on the Motown Forum. You're right, Martha seemed a bit stiff but she was vocally impressive. And her back-up singers were super! Those girls could SING! MCA sent her out well supported for her live TV performance. What I found strange was that it seemed as though Martha was trying to change her visual image. Instead of the classy hair-and-gown image portrayed on her MCA album cover, she purposely dressed down to match the progressive rock-crowd style which was popular at the time. Her dress reminded me of Carole King's Tapestry-era dress style, and Martha's hair was in two long braids [[ala early Rita Coolidge [[who I happen to love a lot). The physical image just didn't fit Martha at all in my book. But, again, her performance with the three back-up singers was stellar! And the audience seemed to really love her.


At the the time I thought a more contemporary cover shot might be better. I just thought that dress looked dated. She had a really good figure so show it off! That fluffy dress just didn't do it. I am sure others feel diff.

supremester
02-09-2015, 03:17 PM
! agree - I don't like that shot at all - she's sneering and looks so posed and over processed. Martha looked great on Don Kirshner -

detmotownguy
02-09-2015, 03:51 PM
! agree - I don't like that shot at all - she's sneering and looks so posed and over processed. Martha looked great on Don Kirshner -

Kids my age wouldn't buy the album bc of that shot- I wonder how many good recordshave been passed over bc of the cover photo?

supremester
02-09-2015, 06:28 PM
Clearly everything that could have gone wrong with the album, practically did. Those of us who love Martha are fond of the project, but it was a commercial nightmare - IMO and I doubt that it got her any new fans. The cover was a beast, made her look matronly and we needed hip Martha. There was so much hype on this, I was expecting a lot more, but still there are lots of good cuts.......just no hits.
Martha told me how excited she was to be rescued from Motown - she felt they were not interested in her. I've since learned otherwise, and if 4 record companies in 7 years can't get a hit on you.......it's not just the record companies. I think Martha's voice didn't connect with the mass public.

REDHOT
02-09-2015, 10:40 PM
Lol there you go again Supremester,and you say you like Martha smh,one thing i know for sure,you love Diana Ross lol,and there's nothing wrong with that,but please STOP IT,with Martha Reeves lmao.you're just too nice,and nasty at the same time.if you do personal things for people,they should stay personal.

supremester
02-10-2015, 12:17 AM
This thread is not about Miss Ross, I've said nothing nasty, I do not care for your name calling and insults and am asking you nicely to practice what you preach, stay positive, and leave me out of your whatever it is that you do. Thank You.

detmotownguy
02-10-2015, 12:47 AM
Clearly everything that could have gone wrong with the album, practically did. Those of us who love Martha are fond of the project, but it was a commercial nightmare - IMO and I doubt that it got her any new fans. The cover was a beast, made her look matronly and we needed hip Martha. There was so much hype on this, I was expecting a lot more, but still there are lots of good cuts.......just no hits.
Martha told me how excited she was to be rescued from Motown - she felt they were not interested in her. I've since learned otherwise, and if 4 record companies in 7 years can't get a hit on you.......it's not just the record companies. I think Martha's voice didn't connect with the mass public.

Ok one last comment! I cant find the footage, but Martha is on stage in a yellow dress singing with I believe a rock band. From what I remember, I was thinking a new direction is what was needed [[more rock based). She was really in control and sounded good. I always remember the drastic move Labelle did and how people reacted. I just hope my memory serves me correctly on this one lol!

stephanie
02-10-2015, 01:10 AM
I dont know if that would have worked for Martha but its a good thought when it comes to rock. The ONLY Motown group who I can think of that did a 360 degree turn when it came to looks and sound was Undisputed Truth. Its debatable as to whether it worked or not. We all know The Marvelettes and Martha and the Vandellas got more glamorous in press pics and onstage like the Supremes. In 1968 and above we know the Four Tops, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye and the whole roster was changing their sound. Supremes showed up on Sullivan wearing shorts and being barefoot in the tenement slum and Marvin sang Whats Going On, The Tops were changing with Nature Planned it and STILL WATER but nobody had changed their look like Undisputed Truth I wonder whose idea that was to come out looking silver?

REDHOT
02-10-2015, 03:20 AM
You're right Stephanie,about The Undisputed Truth,for some reason,i bet it was Norman Whitfield,he was they're producer,at that time,it's just a guess,i don't know for sure,i must say,i'v been playing a lot of Martha Reeves,she was great,back in the day.