Motown Unreleased 1964 is Here!!!

[Roger Polhill]

I`ve just had a look at "Don`t Forget The Motorcity" and they have listed the tracks for this release and another for a complete 28 Track Dorsey Burnette to be released on Dec. 16th which is tomorrow!! The are stacks of: Marvin Gaye, Brenda Holloway , Choker Campbell, Earl Van Dyke, Kim Weston, La Brenda Ben and Four Tops tracks some 59 in all.
Happy Christmas Everybody!

[longtimefan]

Roger,
I have spent time on DFTMC trying to find what you are referring to in terms on the non Dorsey Burnette tracks. Could you offer us a bit more detail as to where we can find what you are referring to? Thank you in advance.

[johnjeb]

longtimefan you can find the information by going to the Contents page on the site. At the bottom is Bonus tracks - click on Additional material -- never saw that before, myself.

[Buttered Popcorn and so forth]

What a fun surprise! I'm excited about the Brenda Holloway tracks!

[longtimefan]

Thank you, johnjeb!

It's after midnight and the tracks are NOW available on iTunes!!!!! Wow, this came out of nowhere!!!!

[theboyfromxtown]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QK37F04/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp

[lakedistrictlad1]

Wow....this is incredible. As longtimefan says - it's come from out of nowhere.

So much 'new' Motown to take us through into 2015. Incredible.

There seems to almost an albums worth of Marvin Gaye standards. I have never read about these sessions.

Bit steep at £28 quid though. I think i'll wait a while to see if the price comes down in the new year.

[radionixon]

I was under strict instructions not to announce it here first, but since the cat's out of the bag now... I played 2 tracks from this compilation on my radio show yesterday, and good they were too! [[I chose Marvin's "When I Fall In Love" and Hattie Littles - the latter was extraordinary).

The cloudcast version of last Sunday's show will be available to listen online from Saturday. I'll leave it to Harry W to make a proper announcement about the actual release :)

[midnight johnny]

Finally.....Brenda's version of Jimmy Webb's "This TIme Last Summer"....I have waited a lifetime for this...and it's as beautiful as I imagined!

[RossHolloway]

WOW oh WOW. All the Marvin and Brenda Holloway tracks!!! Thanks Universal/Motown this is AWESOME!

UPDATE: I just purchased the download and can't wait to listen to all these tracks!

[roger]

UPDATE: I just purchased the download and can't wait to listen to all these tracks!

I purchased the download some three hours back, using TheBoyFromXTowns link, and I am now thoroughly enjoying listening to the tracks over a decent sound system. :)

I'm currently listening to the FOUR TOPS singing "Girl From Ipenema" for the second time .. great version of the Bossa-Nova classic .... anyone have any idea who is singing the lead as it sure doesn't sound like Levi?

Roger

[keith_hughes]

See the annotations at http://www.dftmc.info/bonus/b-02.html, for the answer to your question, Roger ... I'm impressed that Mr Polhill found those annos so quickly: Ritchie got them online just yesterday, and we were going to keep quiet about them until the release date - supposedly tomorrow!

I meant to add credits for mastering engineer Seth Foster - a fine job done, and I speak as one who heard many of the tracks in their pre-mastered state - and of course for series producer Harry Weinger, without whom ...

[[yes, I hope I can now call this a series!)

Keith

[radionixon]

See the annotations at http://www.dftmc.info/bonus/b-02.html, for the answer to your question, Roger ... I'm impressed that Mr Polhill found those annos so quickly: Ritchie got them online just yesterday, and we were going to keep quiet about them until the release date - supposedly tomorrow!

I meant to add credits for mastering engineer Seth Foster - a fine job done, and I speak as one who heard many of the tracks in their pre-mastered state - and of course for series producer Harry Weinger, without whom ...

[[yes, I hope I can now call this a series!)

Keith

Fantastic work as ever, Keith [[and Harry, and Seth). Long live Motown!

[alanh]

Thanks for the alert Roger! Downloaded and listening now.

Cheapest in the UK is Google Play at £17.99 and you get files at 320 kbps.

[robb_k]

8805
I glad those songs were made available, after listening to the snippets, I discovered that there are only a few that I like very much, 3 by Brenda Holloway, the Johnny Bristol, 1 by Marvin Gaye. The Kim Weston, Hattie Littles, 1 of the LaBrenda Bens, 1 Four Tops and a couple other Brenda Holloways and Marvin Gayes, and a few of the Earl Van Dykes and Chuker Campbells are listenable. All in all, it's a little disappointing [[probably because everything else from 1964 that COULD be released by Motown has been released already). I'm still extremely angry that some of my very favourite "Motown" recordings have been determined to NOT be owned by Motown, and, thus remain on acetates only in private hands [[including "Tears, Nobody, and A Smile").

[carole cucumber]

I found the final designation [[at the dftmc website) for the Dorsey Burnette set [[lower right hand corner) to be refreshing and intriguing.
Thanks to all who are bringing us 'Vault-Mania"

[RossHolloway]

8805
I glad those songs were made available, after listening to the snippets, I discovered that there are only a few that I like very much, 3 by Brenda Holloway, the Johnny Bristol, 1 by Marvin Gaye. The Kim Weston, Hattie Littles, 1 of the LaBrenda Bens, 1 Four Tops and a couple other Brenda Holloways and Marvin Gayes, and a few of the Earl Van Dykes and Chuker Campbells are listenable. All in all, it's a little disappointing [[probably because everything else from 1964 that COULD be released by Motown has been released already). I'm still extremely angry that some of my very favourite "Motown" recordings have been determined to NOT be owned by Motown, and, thus remain on acetates only in private hands [[including "Tears, Nobody, and A Smile").

Well I was surprised that there were no unreleased tracks by the Velvelettes, Martha & The Vandellas or Stevie Wonder from 1964. Could they have all be released already?

[Roger Polhill]

I purchased the download some three hours back, using TheBoyFromXTowns link, and I am now thoroughly enjoying listening to the tracks over a decent sound system. :)

I'm currently listening to the FOUR TOPS singing "Girl From Ipenema" for the second time .. great version of the Bossa-Nova classic .... anyone have any idea who is singing the lead as it sure doesn't sound like Levi?

Roger
According to the annotations Roger it is Obi and Lawrence heads the other"The Real You"

[carole cucumber]

Noting the composer of Blue Berry, are there any other songs authored by Berry Gordy that incorporate his name in the title?

[carole cucumber]

Seeing Sherlie Matthews' name listed alongside Frank Wilson's on "Now that Love Is Gone" , is this one of her earliest Motown compositions?

[carole cucumber]

I wonder if "Must Be Quite A Show" and/or "Peace Of Mind" were being considered for possible Marvin Gaye- Oma Heard duets?

[carole cucumber]

Who is singing lead on "Dance Yeah Dance"?

[alanh]

I've only listened to 'CD 1' so far, but tend to agree with Robb. On my limited listen, I found 'Unreleased 1963' better.

Anyone else find CD 1 track 23 - Marvin Gaye's 'Now She's Gone' defective, cutting out after about 1m 24secs?

[RossHolloway]

I wonder if "Must Be Quite A Show" and/or "Peace Of Mind" were being considered for possible Marvin Gaye- Oma Heard duets?

I thought all of their duets had been released already- the last one being Kiss, Kiss

[carole cucumber]

I thought all of their duets had been released already- the last one being Kiss, Kiss

Yes, all the known duets have been released . I was only wondering if either of the songs I list might have been considered as possible duets between Marvin & Oma, but eventually ended up only with Marvin's vocals.

[carole cucumber]

If John Lester sees this,
Do you think that the voice providing the high notes [[background vocals) on LaBrenda's "Go On Sleeping" belongs to Liz Lands?

[robb_k]

Well I was surprised that there were no unreleased tracks by the Velvelettes, Martha & The Vandellas or Stevie Wonder from 1964. Could they have all be released already?
8807
Probably so, due to their anthologies and other CD releases. Brenda Holloway had a lot more unreleased as she didn't have many album releases, unlike Martha & Vandellas or Stevie Wonder. And ALL The Velvelettes' unreleased material got released on CD due to very high demand from a large cult following.

[robb_k]

8808
Also- I'm still unhappy that Edward Earling's 1962 and 1963 cuts weren't released.

[kenneth]

WOW oh WOW. All the Marvin and Brenda Holloway tracks!!! Thanks Universal/Motown this is AWESOME!

UPDATE: I just purchased the download and can't wait to listen to all these tracks!

Please let us know about the Holloway tracks. A whole album's worth - that's very exciting.

[alanh]

CD 2 - Autumn In New York by Marvin is also defective, cutting out right at the end. Very annoying. You ought to check yours, along with 'Now She's Gone' that I mentioned earlier. I downloaded from Google Play but they're the same on Spotify, so I assume both files are faulty. Anyone from Universal able to fix the problem?

[roger]

CD 2 - Autumn In New York by Marvin is also defective, cutting out right at the end. Very annoying. You ought to check yours, along with 'Now She's Gone' that I mentioned earlier. I downloaded from Google Play but they're the same on Spotify, so I assume both files are faulty. Anyone from Universal able to fix the problem?

I can't hear anything wrong with either of those two MARVIN GAYE tracks alanh.

I bought the collection via Amazon and have copied them onto my computer for transfer onto C.D. etc. .. the file sizes and timings display as follows ....
"Autumn In New York" - size - 3.71megabytes ... timing - 2.59 minutes.
"Now She's Gone" - size - 4.69megabytes ..... timing - 3.41 minutes.
Can you tell if that is the same as the copies you are hearing?

Roger

[backflipboy]

Yes, both the Marvin tracks show the same running times but do drop out, waiting for Google Play to get back to me with more info.

[backflipboy]

Just spoke to Google, they are going to look into the problem and get back to me, strange that is two Marvin tracks .......
Have Universal messed up again, looks like a refund from Google may be on the cards.

Roger, your file sizes will be different as Amazon uses a variable bitrate, whereas Google use 320Kbps constant bitrate

[lakedistrictlad1]

The '63 collection had a duff Marvin Gaye track also.

I wish someone would quality control these things.

Still, I got my money refunded last time around, so would be interested to know how you get on backflipboy.

[backflipboy]

Friend of mine has just emailed Harry about the problem ....... just awaiting his reply now :-)

[RossHolloway]

CD 2 - Autumn In New York by Marvin is also defective, cutting out right at the end. Very annoying. You ought to check yours, along with 'Now She's Gone' that I mentioned earlier. I downloaded from Google Play but they're the same on Spotify, so I assume both files are faulty. Anyone from Universal able to fix the problem?I downloaded these from Amazon, and just listened to these two tracks again, and both songs played without any problems. And while Marvin's "crooner period" isn't my favorite Marvin period, Autumn in New York is quite beautiful. There are some nice Marvin tracks on this collection.

[alanh]

Thanks for your comments and thanks for contacting Google Play backflipboy. I emailed them this morning but have not had a reply yet. It's strange that Google Play files are faulty and Amazon's aren't. But, as I mentioned, if you go to Spotify, their tracks drop out too. Curious. Let's hope it's fixed soon - as you say Ross, Marvin's 'Autumn In New York' is very nice - I love the simple organ backing - it reminds me of JImmy McGriff. 'See See Rider' is great and 'Nice N Easy', although some of the other standards with cabaret type backing don't sound too good.

[alanh]

AND.....CD 2 'I Don't Want Anybody Perfect' by Brenda Holloway is duff too!
Pity I was enjoying it. Not Good!! [[I do want an album that's perfect though:rolleyes:)

[RossHolloway]

AND.....CD 2 'I Don't Want Anybody Perfect' by Brenda Holloway is duff too!
Pity I was enjoying it. Not Good!! [[I do want an album that's perfect though:rolleyes:)
Just played this track and there were no issues with it playing.

[backflipboy]

My copy of the Brenda Holloway track is the same, drops out at 0:41
Anyone else come across duff tracks ?
Who converts these tracks for Google/Amazon/ITunes ?
Are they delivered as Wav's/FLAC/MP3's ??
Not looking good for Universal ........ AGAIN :-[[

[RossHolloway]

My copy of the Brenda Holloway track is the same, drops out at 0:41
Anyone else come across duff tracks ?
Who converts these tracks for Google/Amazon/ITunes ?
Are they delivered as Wav's/FLAC/MP3's ??
Not looking good for Universal ........ AGAIN :-[[

It sounds like it's more of a problem with the provider and not necessarily Universal. I downloaded from Amazon and haven't had any issues with playback or sound.

[backflipboy]

Alanh says that the spotify tracks drop out too, not being a user i can't comment on that but perhaps someone who is would have a listen and see what happens ........

[copley]

Loving 42/59 :) The instrumentals do very little for me. All my tracks sound fine with no drop-out.

[longtimefan]

Well I was surprised that there were no unreleased tracks by the Velvelettes, Martha & The Vandellas or Stevie Wonder from 1964. Could they have all be released already?

You are right! I would think there must be a few Martha and The Vandellas tracks out there to sweeten the list and attract girl group fans and buyers. And, The Supremes! I believe it has been reported that their Anthology exhausted all of The Velvelettes' output.

This comment is not particular to Motown, but I am amazed at the price of $1.29 for individual downloads. When you think of it, this is getting very pricey.

[copley]

Shop around. There are places out there that you can get it for less than £10!

[mowsville]

I totally see what you mean Carole...the tracks do have that sound that the previous duets have...I could really imagine Oma's voice on these...
I wonder if "Must Be Quite A Show" and/or "Peace Of Mind" were being considered for possible Marvin Gaye- Oma Heard duets?

[honest man]

shop around. There are places out there that you can get it for less than £10!do tell please.

[alanh]

Keeping up the customer pressure, I spoke to Google earlier today too. The rep I had a conversation with listened to the three tracks and agreed that their files are faulty She's passed on the issue to 'a specialist' who should be getting back to me within 24-48 hours. So, hopefully, one way or another those of us affected should hear something soon.

[backflipboy]

Lost confidence in Google Play now ....... Lady I spoke to hadn't really got a clue, think I'll ask for a refund and purchase elsewhere ...... IF copley let's us in on the secret ;)

[copley]

http://www.bontonline.cz/various-artists-motown-unreleased-1964-00602547133601/

£12.90 or $20.21 at current exchange rates.

[RossHolloway]

I wonder if "Must Be Quite A Show" and/or "Peace Of Mind" were being considered for possible Marvin Gaye- Oma Heard duets?
Carole - You may be onto something. After some quick research on DFTM, it seems that four duets with Marvin and Oma were produced by Marc Gordon and Hal Davis on June 26, 1964 in California: Was It A Dream, Rilleh!, Steadies and Your Kiss Kiss. And four days prior, on June 22, 1964, Gordon and Davis also did Must Be Quite A Show, Peace of Mind, Touch of Venus and To a Bad Dream with Marvin. I've always thought those duets were highly underrated.

[backflipboy]

Update .......
Just heard back from Google, asking me lots of silly questions via email about streaming, speeds etc ....... Obviously the lady I dealt with before hadn't quite grasped the problems I was having with the 3 faulty tracks ......

Google are now preparing a full refund for me and will delete the album from my account ASAP.
I've purchased downloads before from them but this time was the first time I'd had a problem and it had to be this album :-[[
Keith Hughes posted over in Soul Source http://www.soul-source.co.uk/soulforum/topic/325821-motown-unreleased-1964/ that he did the quality control on these tracks.
Does look like a Google problem then .........

[backflipboy]

Looks like Amazon UK have dropped the price of the album down to £17.99
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motown-Unreleased-1964-Various-artists/dp/B00QK37F04/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418928135&sr=8-1&keywords=motown+unreleased+1964.
If you bought it when it first went on sale, may be worth contacting Amazon to see if they will partially refund the difference ......

[brother_love]

It's great to see so many unreleased Brenda tracks issued in the past fifteen years. I wonder just how many are left? Here is a small list of tracks that are still unreleased in the vaults. Can you add some to this list or correct me if I'm wrong?

Can't Hold Back The Feeling
Can You Hear Me Calling
Girl On The Run [[I really love this one)
Here Are The Pieces Of My Broken Heart
I'm Giving Up
I'm On The Outside
I Can't Make It Alone
Holding On
Someday
Honey Don't Leave Me
Have A Little Talk With Myself
All Because Of You
That's What He Told Me
I'm Gonna Hold On Long As I Can
Sweet Thing
Baby I'm Yours Because
Shoe Leather Express
It Ain't Like That
A World Without You
I'm So Glad
Lonely Room
The Love Line
He's The One
He Doesn't Live Here Anymore
There Goes My Heart
Who Invented Heartache
Reassure Me That You Love Me
The Lonely Heart & Lonely Eyes Of Lonely Me
I Don't Want Nobody's Gonna Make Me Cry
I Feel Your Love Growin' On Me
Without Love You Lose A Good Feelin'
Anchored In Happiness
You Got A Little Of Everything
Keep Me
Junkyard Of Broken Hearts
Don't Turn Away
Yesterdays Love Is Over
Take A Good Look Over your Shoulder

[RossHolloway]

It's great to see so many unreleased Brenda tracks issued in the past fifteen years. I wonder just how many are left? Here is a small list of tracks that are still unreleased in the vaults. Can you add some to this list or correct me if I'm wrong?

Can't Hold Back The Feeling
Can You Hear Me Calling
Girl On The Run [[I really love this one)
Here Are The Pieces Of My Broken Heart
I'm Giving Up
I'm On The Outside
I Can't Make It Alone
Holding On
Someday
Honey Don't Leave Me
Have A Little Talk With Myself
All Because Of You
That's What He Told Me
I'm Gonna Hold On Long As I Can
Sweet Thing
Baby I'm Yours Because
Shoe Leather Express
It Ain't Like That
A World Without You
I'm So Glad
Lonely Room
The Love Line
He's The One
He Doesn't Live Here Anymore
There Goes My Heart
Who Invented Heartache
Reassure Me That You Love Me
The Lonely Heart & Lonely Eyes Of Lonely Me
I Don't Want Nobody's Gonna Make Me Cry
I Feel Your Love Growin' On Me
Without Love You Lose A Good Feelin'
Anchored In Happiness
You Got A Little Of Everything
Keep Me
Junkyard Of Broken Hearts
Don't Turn Away
Yesterdays Love Is Over
Take A Good Look Over your Shoulder

You know, I was thinking the same thing about all the Brenda releases, more tracks have been released on her in the past 2-3 years than all her releases in the 1960's!

[longtimefan]

Brother love,
Very interesting. I am just curious, however. Where have you obtained the information and the names of all of these tracks that have never been released. Very intriguing to me! :-)

[hwume]

This is puzzling. Both Keith Hughes and I have a master ref of exactly what was delivered, and there are no dropouts on these copies. And, when playing the same three "duff" tracks via Spotify U.S., I do not hear any dropouts.

I am discussing these anomalies with our production team as it appears to be something on the stores' end.

[Roger Polhill]

It's great to see so many unreleased Brenda tracks issued in the past fifteen years. I wonder just how many are left? Here is a small list of tracks that are still unreleased in the vaults. Can you add some to this list or correct me if I'm wrong?

Can't Hold Back The Feeling
Can You Hear Me Calling
Girl On The Run [[I really love this one)
Here Are The Pieces Of My Broken Heart
I'm Giving Up
I'm On The Outside
I Can't Make It Alone
Holding On
Someday
Honey Don't Leave Me
Have A Little Talk With Myself
All Because Of You
That's What He Told Me
I'm Gonna Hold On Long As I Can
Sweet Thing
Baby I'm Yours Because
Shoe Leather Express
It Ain't Like That
A World Without You
I'm So Glad
Lonely Room
The Love Line
He's The One
He Doesn't Live Here Anymore
There Goes My Heart
Who Invented Heartache
Reassure Me That You Love Me
The Lonely Heart & Lonely Eyes Of Lonely Me
I Don't Want Nobody's Gonna Make Me Cry
I Feel Your Love Growin' On Me
Without Love You Lose A Good Feelin'
Anchored In Happiness
You Got A Little Of Everything
Keep Me
Junkyard Of Broken Hearts
Don't Turn Away
Yesterdays Love Is Over
Take A Good Look Over your Shoulder

Very good brother love. The only ones that I can add are "Take Me In Your Arms [[Rock Me A Little While)" , "You`re Gonna Love My Baby" and live at the Hollywood Bowl 1967 "Happy Together", "Sunny" "Look What I Have Done" and "Every Little Bit Hurts"

[RossHolloway]

Very good brother love. The only ones that I can add are "Take Me In Your Arms [[Rock Me A Little While)" , "You`re Gonna Love My Baby" and live at the Hollywood Bowl 1967 "Happy Together", "Sunny" "Look What I Have Done" and "Every Little Bit Hurts"
Have you had a chance to hear any of those tracks? Especially the live tracks?

[Roger Polhill]

No I haven`t Ross , I have trawled through all the annotations and the 1st two were "assigned" to Brenda and it`s possibly that they don`t exist as to the live tracks I can`t remember where I read this.We can only keep our fingers crossed.

[no_place_like_motown]

Brother Love when I saw your list it filled me with excitement! I'm amazed at the number of songs that BH recorded while at Motown; Steve Devereux calls her the Queen of Unreleased Motown and rightfully so! I also remember seeing some of these songs listed on a thread on the old Motown BB - "Junkyard Of Broken Hearts" being a standout.

Here are some of the songs from your list that were released:

"A World Without You"; "I Don't Want Nobody's Gonna Make Me Cry" are on the BH Anthology.
"The Love Line" is on the Artistry Of BH.

Let's hope these songs will surface on future releases!

[motownjohnny]

With so many apparently unreleased tracks still in the vault why don't Universal consider producing a Lost and Found on Brenda. I'm sure there'd be enough interest from her many fans to make the project financially profitable, provided of course that the package is properly promoted. Maybe Keith Hughes would considering undertaking this in 2015 for Ace / Kent.

[144man]

Has anyone noticed the similarity between Earl Van Dyke's "Boogaliss" and Gloria Jones's "Heartbeat"?

[theboyfromxtown]

I can see where you're coming from there. It does sound a bit like Heartbeat.

[radionixon]

I'm amazed at the number of songs that BH recorded while at Motown; Steve Devereux calls her the Queen of Unreleased Motown and rightfully so!

I do indeed [[I've played The Love Line on the show before now!)

I've now uploaded last week's show where I had the world premiere of two tracks from the Unreleased 1964 compilation [[I wasn't allowed to do a big fanfare in advance, sorry!) - I originally had a choice of 3 tracks from the proposed list, and picked a Brenda track, but then it was cut down to 2 and I wanted to keep Hattie Littles [[as she's got lots of fans around the station since I introduced her work to them!) and Marvin Gaye [[because if you think I was going to turn down the chance to have a world premiere of a Marvin Gaye track, think again). Anyway, enjoy!

http://images-mix.netdna-ssl.com/w/300/h/300/q/85/upload/images/extaudio/46bfd292-64f9-4f09-bb2f-27d8bd52d66c.jpg [[http://www.mixcloud.com/discoveringmotown/53/)

http://www.mixcloud.com/discoveringmotown/53/

[keith_hughes]

Carole - You may be onto something. After some quick research on DFTM, it seems that four duets with Marvin and Oma were produced by Marc Gordon and Hal Davis on June 26, 1964 in California: Was It A Dream, Rilleh!, Steadies and Your Kiss Kiss. And four days prior, on June 22, 1964, Gordon and Davis also did Must Be Quite A Show, Peace of Mind, Touch of Venus and To a Bad Dream with Marvin. I've always thought those duets were highly underrated.

Russ: good research work! Just a note of caution - the dates you cite are shown as "recorded before" dates on the site: what that means in this case, and similar "outside session" dates, is that the tapes were registered as having been received at Hitsville on those dates. [[This from the sheets typed up and attached to the tape boxes in Detroit.) We have very few actual recording dates for LA recordings. It seems safe to assume that the tracks were all cut during a visit to the Coast by Marvin some time in June 1964. However - the tracks by Marvin solo are on one tape and the tracks by Marvin and Oma are on another tape, which suggests they were separate sessions, and there's nothing to suggest the solo tracks were considered as duet material.

A teaser footnote: there are other tracks by other artists on both tapes, including one by the Spinners, "When The City Sleeps". I recall Bobby Smith telling me this was one of his favourite tracks [[when I interviewed him for the Ace CD essay). It was finished off at Hitsville in January 1965, so is a contender for 1965 Unreleased, next year. Watch out for it!

ps Carole: neither Ritchie nor I can identify the singer on "Dance Yeah Dance". Heikki, are you out there? One for you ...

[alanh]

Interesting Keith, thanks. Is there any background on the Marvin recordings with, it appears, the music recorded in New York and his vocals added in Chicago?

[tlg30]

To my ears the singer on "Dance Yeah Dance" by The Spinners is Chico Edwards.

[keith_hughes]

not sure what else you're looking for, alan h ... NY seems to have become the preferred venue for Motown string sessions during 1964, and probably Marvin happened to be performing in Chicago at that time and it was cheaper to air-freight the tape there rather than fly Marvin back to Detroit ... !

[robb_k]

8844

Keith -
Why were the Edward Earling cuts not placed on Motown unreleased 1963? Was he never signed to an artist contract?

[heikki]

Hi Keith,

I'm still here for a day or so...
So far it's better that I won't say anything about that Spinners track. I forwarded the question to Henry Fambrough, although he's not always very active in answering :-).

Best regards
Heikki

[RossHolloway]

Russ: good research work! Just a note of caution - the dates you cite are shown as "recorded before" dates on the site: what that means in this case, and similar "outside session" dates, is that the tapes were registered as having been received at Hitsville on those dates. [[This from the sheets typed up and attached to the tape boxes in Detroit.) We have very few actual recording dates for LA recordings. It seems safe to assume that the tracks were all cut during a visit to the Coast by Marvin some time in June 1964. However - the tracks by Marvin solo are on one tape and the tracks by Marvin and Oma are on another tape, which suggests they were separate sessions, and there's nothing to suggest the solo tracks were considered as duet material.

A teaser footnote: there are other tracks by other artists on both tapes, including one by the Spinners, "When The City Sleeps". I recall Bobby Smith telling me this was one of his favourite tracks [[when I interviewed him for the Ace CD essay). It was finished off at Hitsville in January 1965, so is a contender for 1965 Unreleased, next year. Watch out for it!

ps Carole: neither Ritchie nor I can identify the singer on "Dance Yeah Dance". Heikki, are you out there? One for you ...

Hey Keith- Thanks for the response. Would you happen to know if any additional solo Oma Page tracks were recorded during this period where she was also recording with Marvin Gaye?

[keith_hughes]

Robb

Edward Earling was certainly a candidate for 1963. We discarded a few on grounds of, uh, quality [[of one kind or another), but his three certainly wouldn't have been amongst them. The rest of the rejections were because we couldn't clear them with Legal, so I guess Earling must have been amongst them.

Do you know anything about him? I thought he sounded a lot like the lead singer of the Morrocco Music Makers, but I think that theory was shot down when we were researching the Singles series.

Keith

[keith_hughes]

Ross

I think we managed to clear up the mystery re Oma Heard/Page when we were doing the Singles series - and it's Oma HEARD who did the duets with Marvin, despite the credit to Oma PAGE on the Marvin box set where they first appeared.

There are a couple of unreleased tracks by Oma Heard still in the Vaults, but sadly we weren't able to get them cleared for the 1964 Unreleased set. As always with LA stuff, they're hard to date precisely, but they're not on the same reels as the M-O duets.

Keith

[alanh]

Keith

Thanks for the Marvin recording info, which is what I was looking for. I'm so used to Motown tracks either being recorded in Detroit or LA that it throws me [[though perhaps it shouldn't) when I see recordings taking place elsewhere.

[RossHolloway]

Ross

I think we managed to clear up the mystery re Oma Heard/Page when we were doing the Singles series - and it's Oma HEARD who did the duets with Marvin, despite the credit to Oma PAGE on the Marvin box set where they first appeared.

There are a couple of unreleased tracks by Oma Heard still in the Vaults, but sadly we weren't able to get them cleared for the 1964 Unreleased set. As always with LA stuff, they're hard to date precisely, but they're not on the same reels as the M-O duets.

Keith
Thanks again for the response. I'm also just curious to what all is entailed for getting songs cleared released? I know its a bit like inside baseball, but I guess there's more to it than just quality of the song and quality of the tape.

[keith_hughes]

Clearance is nothing to do with the quality of the material. It is usually to do with a record company having the legal right to issue recordings they have in their possession. That is determined by the company's legal department, from studying the contracts they have for the artist. If they can't find a contract that entitles them to release a particular recording, they don't release it. For further info - ask a lawyer! [[It's something that baffles most people who try to get old recordings released, but when Legal say No, then it's No.)

[lakedistrictlad1]

Question for Keith Hughes - Providing the recording details for these sets on DFTM is much appreciated - thanks very much.
Is it possible to provide the same details for the 1962 sets with the bonus section of the website at some point? I'm sure the tracks will be annotated on the site in various places, but to have them in the 'bonus tracks and additional material' section would be very handy.

[[I'm loving all the 'new' Brenda H tracks. Great to hear 'Don't Compare Me With Her', which is one of my all time favourite Motown tracks)

[honest man]

Have problems been sorted out yet.also any info on best deals for this little lot,cheers people

[robb_k]

Robb

Edward Earling was certainly a candidate for 1963. We discarded a few on grounds of, uh, quality [[of one kind or another), but his three certainly wouldn't have been amongst them. The rest of the rejections were because we couldn't clear them with Legal, so I guess Earling must have been amongst them.

Do you know anything about him? I thought he sounded a lot like the lead singer of the Morocco Music Makers, but I think that theory was shot down when we were researching the Singles series.
Keith
8846
I think that the lead singer of The Morocco Muzik Makers had a slightly more raspy/scratchy voice. I don't think Edward was that guy. No, I don't know anything about Edward. Do we have contact with any people who were with Motown at the time that might remember him? Members of The Andantes, Four Tops, Spinners, Velvelettes? One member of The Andantes with whom some of us have contact, [[Louvain Demps) remembered Wade Jones.

[robb_k]

Robb

Edward Earling was certainly a candidate for 1963. We discarded a few on grounds of, uh, quality [[of one kind or another), but his three certainly wouldn't have been amongst them. The rest of the rejections were because we couldn't clear them with Legal, so I guess Earling must have been amongst them.

Do you know anything about him? I thought he sounded a lot like the lead singer of the Morocco Music Makers, but I think that theory was shot down when we were researching the Singles series.
Keith
8846
I think that the lead singer of The Morocco Muzik Makers had a slightly more raspy/scratchy voice. I don't think Edward was that guy. No, I don't know anything about Edward. Do we have contact with any people who were with Motown at the time that might remember him? Members of The Andantes, Four Tops, Spinners, Velvelettes? One member of The Andantes with whom some of us have contact, Louvain Demps) remembered Wade Jones.

[RossHolloway]

Clearance is nothing to do with the quality of the material. It is usually to do with a record company having the legal right to issue recordings they have in their possession. That is determined by the company's legal department, from studying the contracts they have for the artist. If they can't find a contract that entitles them to release a particular recording, they don't release it. For further info - ask a lawyer! [[It's something that baffles most people who try to get old recordings released, but when Legal say No, then it's No.)
Thanks, so just because Motown Universal may have /possess a physical copy of a track, it doesn't necessarily mean they have a legal right to release the track?

One last question - Have all of the LaBrenda Ben tracks been freed from the vault? Her tracks have been a revelation.

[762rob]

Just previewed some tracks on iTunes.
Thanks for the heads up Soulful Detroiters! I'll download them in the morning and burn to CDs.
Really liked the Chocker Campbell cuts. I have had his "Hits Of the Sixties" Lp since 1965, still in mint shape....

[144man]

I enjoyed the Choker Campbell cuts better than anything on "Hits of the Sixties".

[carole cucumber]

Looking over the annotations at DFTMC, it appears that Brenda Holloway's first Detroit -completed recording would be "I'm the Exception To the Rule" [[There is no California designation on this track) . Some writers have mentioned her first visit to Detroit as taking place in January, 1965- but she must have come to Hitsville a few days earlier, after having spent Christmas with her family .

[MrTopCat]

It's no longer available on Google Play. Perhaps they're gonna fix the problem and re - add it soon.

[alanh]

Hi MrTopCat... it's been off Google Play for many days now. I've given up waiting for corrected files and got a refund, then bought it elsewhere.

[keith_hughes]

Carole, I think Brenda's first Hitsville recording was "A Favor For A Girl [[With A Love Sick Heart)", recorded Mar 3 1964. She cut "Don't Compare Me With Her" there in May, and "You've Changed Me" in June. "I'm The Exception" was one of a batch of recordings made at Hitsville in Dec and Jan, too many to list here. I recall a story she told that her first visit to Detroit in winter [[presumably this Dec/Jan stay) was the first time she ever saw snow, and that she didn't appreciate being carried bodily out into the front yard at 2648 by some friendly Motown folk and dumped in it!

[carole cucumber]

Carole, I think Brenda's first Hitsville recording was "A Favor For A Girl [[With A Love Sick Heart)", recorded Mar 3 1964. She cut "Don't Compare Me With Her" there in May, and "You've Changed Me" in June. "I'm The Exception" was one of a batch of recordings made at Hitsville in Dec and Jan, too many to list here. I recall a story she told that her first visit to Detroit in winter [[presumably this Dec/Jan stay) was the first time she ever saw snow, and that she didn't appreciate being carried bodily out into the front yard at 2648 by some friendly Motown folk and dumped in it!

Keith,

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm not sure how I missed the annotation for "Don't Compare Me To Her" .
From what you state, it seems that Brenda's early trips to Hitsville only produced one usable song each trip, each with [[a) different songwriter[[s)/producer[[s) .

[Roger Polhill]

Thanks, so just because Motown Universal may have /possess a physical copy of a track, it doesn't necessarily mean they have a legal right to release the track?

One last question - Have all of the LaBrenda Ben tracks been freed from the vault? Her tracks have been a revelation.

Ross, there is a chance that there could be at least a couple more. I have :Go Ahead And Laugh" as a "Assigned" track and "It`s All Over You" as an acetate from 1963, which should have appeared last December as an download I would have thought, who knows.

[calvin]

I just bought this as a lossless [[16-bit, 44.1 kHz) download from Qobuz for £24.69, almost £4 cheaper than the lossy mp3 download on Amazon UK. I haven't played it all yet but I did play the 3 tracks that some in this thread had problems with, and they are fine.

http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/motown-unreleased-1964-multi-interpretes/0060254713360

[keith_hughes]

Ross, there is a chance that there could be at least a couple more. I have :Go Ahead And Laugh" as a "Assigned" track and "It`s All Over You" as an acetate from 1963, which should have appeared last December as an download I would have thought, who knows.

Hi Roger

If you know "It's All Over You" you'll know that LaBrenda sings mostly on the choruses, the verses are taken by an unidentified male singer.

You can't get clearance for an unidentified vocalist. We didn't even apply. Enjoy your acetate.

Keith

[Roger Polhill]

Hi Keith, the Compliments of the Season to You. No I don`t have the acetate, it`s just that I read somewhere that there was an acetate so I just noted it in my little book along with all other suggestions and "assigned" mentions of unreleased songs. Does "Go Ahead And Laugh " exist?
Now rest up and build up your strength for a very busy New Year preparing soon-to-be released classic Motown compilations for which I`m eagerly awaiting and extremely grateful for.

[keith_hughes]

Never extravagant with tape, Motown seem to have overdubbed Kim singing "Go Ahead And Laugh" onto LaBrenda's recording and it's gone. I believe we are now out of stock on new LaBrenda recordings, though who knows what may turn up ...

Seasons Greetings to you Roger, and to all our readers.

[RossHolloway]

Keith _Hughes - Just a follow up question, have all of Brenda Holloway's unreleased tracks from '63 and '64 now been released?

[keith_hughes]

Russ, certainly all the ones that were mixed at the time have been released.

[brother_love]

Russ, certainly all the ones that were mixed at the time have been released.

Keith, I was wondering if you or anyone answer a Brenda question for me? In 1998 her unreleased track 'Lonely Boy' was issued on the CD THIS IS NORTHERN SOUL! Vol. 2 and then came out again on THIS IS NORTHERN SOUL! [[Motown Sound Vol. 1) in 2005. My question is if there is any difference in the sound when it came out the second time?

88848885

[Buttered Popcorn and so forth]

Keith, I was wondering if you or anyone answer a Brenda question for me? In 1998 her unreleased track 'Lonely Boy' was issued on the CD THIS IS NORTHERN SOUL! Vol. 2 and then came out again on THIS IS NORTHERN SOUL! [[Motown Sound Vol. 1) in 2005. My question is if there is any difference in the sound when it came out the second time?The first release sounds harsh and from a bad source, the second release sounds great and I think it's from the original master tape. The only other difference is the second release fades out earlier than the first one [[which goes on a bit longer with just the bass playing).

[brother_love]

The first release sounds harsh and from a bad source, the second release sounds great and I think it's from the original master tape. The only other difference is the second release fades out earlier than the first one [[which goes on a bit longer with just the bass playing).

Thanks BP, I was hoping that was the case since I only have the first one and your so right about the harsh sound.

[Roger Polhill]

I`ve had this for some time now and have found some great tracks:
Spinners: "Night and Dayo"
Earl Van Dyke: Blue Berry"
Marvin Gaye: "Peace Of Mind"
Johnny Bristol: "A Woman`s Love"
Brenda Holloway: Don`t Compare Me With Her"
Earl Van Dyke: "Soul Groove"
Amos Miburn: "I`m Just A Fool"
Marvin Gaye: "Little Miss Loser"
Brenda Holloway: "I`m The Exception To The Rule"
Plus the LaBrenda`s and Choker Campbell.
My only disappointments are the number of LA. recorded tracks which suffer from not having the Funk Brothers grooves.I`ve always found R. Dean Taylor`s songs childishly corny. This is a digital download that I am very happy to own.

[144man]

I'm quite happy with the R Dean Taylor tracks because I like corn, and I like the HDH production. The LA tracks are fine with me. I'm not so keen on the Marvin Gaye show-tune styled tracks as they don't have the Motown sound.

[mr_postman]

I'm interested in buying this collection in lossless quality. Apparently, Qobuz seem to supply it in lossless quality. I'm wondering, has Universal supplied Qobuz with high fidelity copies of the songs in this [[and other Motown Unreleased) collection? I don't want to buy this collectin if Qobuz have "upgraded" them in some way from lossy MP3 to a lossless format.

[keith_hughes]

Mr P, it is my understanding that Universal supply the tracks to vendors in WAV format. Every vendor gets the same files. Each vendor then encodes them according to their own proprietory method. I should have thought that the only way a vendor could issue "lossless" versions would be to release the WAV files as received from UMG. Maybe that's what Qobuz are doing ...

[calvin]

Mr P, it is my understanding that Universal supply the tracks to vendors in WAV format. Every vendor gets the same files. Each vendor then encodes them according to their own proprietory method. I should have thought that the only way a vendor could issue "lossless" versions would be to release the WAV files as received from UMG. Maybe that's what Qobuz are doing ...

That's what I thought, thanks for confirming that Keith. One can see that different vendors encode differently to mp3 - for example, while Amazon often uses a 256 kbit/s variable rate, some others [[7Digital, Google Play) seem to use 320 kbit/s constant rate.

Qobuz does offer WAV files, but they also encode and offer files in other formats such as flac and this is a lossless compression - one can decompress the flac [[or other lossless type) file and get the full audio information of the original WAV file. Software does this while playing the file, so nothing is lost in playback. Also, one can use converters [[such as foobar2000) to convert flac files to WAV files, and these will have the same audio information as the original WAV file. [[Which is why the compression is called "lossless" - no audio information is lost.)

In the case of "mastered for iTunes", though, I believe that Universal provides high resolution files to Apple - but then iTunes compresses them in a lossy way, such that the end product people buy has a bit rate similar to that of mp3 files, well below the bit rate of the "lossless" files from Qobuz [[or Pono).

[mysterysinger]

Dorsey Burnette....http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Motown-Recordings-1964-1965/dp/B00QK347D2/ref=sr_1_2?s=dmusic&ie=UTF8&qid=1429029395&sr=1-2&keywords=dorsey+burnette

9346

[mr_postman]

Thank you for this information, Keith and Calvin. I think I'm gonna go ahead and download from Qobuz from now on. Are you aware of other vendors selling the digital Motown releases in WAV or FLAC quality?

[calvin]

Thank you for this information, Keith and Calvin. I think I'm gonna go ahead and download from Qobuz from now on. Are you aware of other vendors selling the digital Motown releases in WAV or FLAC quality?

There could be others, but Qobuz is the only one I know in Europe. There's Pono in the US, they're supposed to come to the UK at some point but who knows when.

As a side note, that Dorsey Burnette set above is also on Qobuz:
http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/the-complete-motown-recordings-1964-1965-dorsey-burnette/0060254717063

[mr_postman]

Thanks! Speaking of that Dorsey collection, do you know what is the difference between the two download options - Hi-Res and 16-Bit CD quality?

[calvin]

Mr P, the cd-quality download is 16-bit/44.1 kHz [[the same bit depth and frequency as a standard cd), this high resolution download is 24-bit/96.0 kHz.

Digital representation of audio is a big subject, how much do you already know? Do you know, for example, what those numbers mean?

[mr_postman]

Calvin, I'm glad you're so on the point. Frankly, I don't know exactly what those numbers mean and I don't understand the qualitative difference between these two options. I know about lossy and lossless audio files and the difference between them, but "bits" and "hertz" is greek to me. Do you happen to know an internet site where these things are properly explained for a novice like me?

[calvin]

Mr P, I can't really recommend a site for a novice without doing some searching. My background is in maths/physics and when I wanted to learn something about this, I began with a paper that was theoretical and technical - probably not what you want.

What those numbers mean, very quickly and roughly - audio information is represented digitally as a sequence of numbers for the signal [[sound - compression and rarefaction of air) at regular intervals. 44.1kHz means that there are 44,100 signal values [[samples) for every second of audio [[for each channel of stereo) - this is the sampling rate or frequency. 16-bit means that each sample is represented by a 16-bit number [[the "bit depth"). Greater bit depth means greater accuracy in representing the original analogue sample value [[see "quantization error").

In terms of the quality difference between high resolution and cd-quality, I will just say that this is a controversial issue. You could read some different views on it, and perhaps try it out if you're so inclined.

Note that you might need some special equipment to play high resolution files. Also, if you're one who likes to burn audio cds from the files [[I'm not, but many in this forum say they do it), 16-bit/44.1kHz is already suited for that.

I have a good sound card for playing high resolution files on my pc and running the output to my amplifier, but I usually buy 16-bit/44.1 kHz, as I did with this Dorsey Burnette download.

[mr_postman]

Thanks for that quick walk-through, Calvin! Much appreciated. I'm not an audiophile, so I should be satisfied with the 16-bit/44.1 kHz option.