Marvin & Tammi

[jboy88]

Though it was only for a few months, does anyone recall whether or not Marvin performed any of his previous duets with Mary Wells and Kim Weston, with Tammi Terrell on stage?

As far as studio recordings are concerned, the only song Marvin & Tammi duet that was previously a duet with mary or kim was their botched take on "Baby I Need Your Lovin'"
I actually wish Marvin had redid "What's the Matter With You Baby" with Tammi before she became too ill to record.

[Kamasu_Jr]

Though it was only for a few months, does anyone recall whether or not Marvin performed any of his previous duets with Mary Wells and Kim Weston, with Tammi Terrell on stage?

As far as studio recordings are concerned, the only song Marvin & Tammi duet that was previously a duet with mary or kim was their botched take on "Baby I Need Your Lovin'"
I actually wish Marvin had redid "What's the Matter With You Baby" with Tammi before she became too ill to record.

That's a good question. It would seem logical that Marvin & Tammi would have performed It Takes Two in their stage show since it was a hit from 1967 like Ain't No Mountain High Enough. I've never read a review about Marvin & Tammi's live show; What the set list consisted of, etc.

I do recall someone telling me that for that tour of college shows during the fall of '67, Marvin was the headliner and Tammi opened and was brought back out during his set for the duet numbers, which were not many.
But I doubt they would have performed any of the songs he had recorded with Mary Wells.

Maybe someone who saw this brief tour can confirm.

[reese]

In the book TROUBLE MAN by Steve Turner, one of the organizers of the Hampden-Sydney concert where Tammi collapsed mentioned that they performed maybe two duets before Tammi collapsed as they started AIN'T NO MOUNTAIN HIGH ENOUGH. Also included is a photo taken minutes before she collapsed.

Her set might have been brief as she wasn't feeling well when she arrived. But considering this was October 1967, only MOUNTAIN and YOUR PRECIOUS LOVE, as well as the UNITED album had been released. So it could very well have been a short set regardless. The organizer didn't mention what the other songs in their set were. But a set list of IT TAKES TWO, YOUR PRECIOUS LOVE, and MOUNTAIN is a nice thought.

[midnightman]

I don't know why they don't mention that Marvin & Tammi had performed together a few times prior to October 1967 so "It Takes Two" and probably "Once Upon a Time" could've been part of the set list.

[luke]

Did Marvin and Mary and Marvin and Kim do live performances together? How many shows did Barbara Randolph do with him? I assume Oma did none!

[positivesoul]

Great thread subject, I've often wondered the same thing!

I'm thinking that their "united" set might have a bit longer than indicated here [[tho the reasoning seems pretty sound to me at first). I recall in the summer '67 that the United ALBUM was VERY big in soul music circles and especially at parties. The DUO had 2 smash hits in a row. This made them extremely hot. Audiences LOVED Marvin, who had already established a legacy in the black community especially [[as opposed to lesser, but some impact in pop circles). BUT [[or a very big BUTT :))... the act that audiences were gaga over by then was the torrid DUO.

I don't think they would have tolerated only a few songs including Tammi. I distinctly recall reading that several promoters were cancelling shows after Tammi's absence for this very reason and that Tammi actually felt a little guilt which helped fuel her determination to get back quickly to support Marvin.

I also recalled seeing a first-hand review of the fateful college show where Tammi sadly collapsed. It said that it happened so quickly that it was virtually imperceptible to the audience. [[In fact I think almost no one would even know about it today if Tammi had not divulged it herself in the Ebony interview, thus making it legendary). The review, which I believe I saw reproduced on the tammiterrell.com website a few years ago, stated that Marvin had caught her, transparently from the audience's viewpoint, and then assisted Tammi as she WALKED off the stage.

He completed the show without her. She did not go to the hospital THAT night [[I think it was the next day & city where she was feeling even worse). It's possible that my mind is merging facts from more than one source, but I'm certain that this is an accurate account of what I read. It's so crazy how stories get incredibly distorted and exaggerated over the years. MANY actually believe Tammi died right then onstage in Marvin's arms.

Finally, despite what some beloved people have reported with likely good intentions, that is not Tammi on "Baby I Need Your Loving".

[Motown_M_1056]

I don't know why they don't mention that Marvin & Tammi had performed together a few times prior to October 1967 so "It Takes Two" and probably "Once Upon a Time" could've been part of the set list.

You mean Tammi Terrell might have toured with Marvin Gaye as one of his opening or support acts. It's possible. Kim Weston was one of Marv's opening/support acts on some of his tours. I don't think Kim was ever a headliner at Motown. Tammi had not achieved headliner billing as a solo either.

It's been about 43 years since Tammi & Marvin did that tour of colleges in 67 so it's hard to know exactly what happened unless you were there.

I think Kamasu, Reese and Positive Soul all have valid points about how the shows might have gone. Remember 1967 was years before
MTV & Entertainment Tonight, etc., so there was not the instant, mass popularity for albums that we see today.
UNITED was a strong seller for Motown, but promotion back then was not like it is today. In '67, you still had some record stores that didn't even stock black music.
Also Motown was still building Tammi's career. She had not had a solo release since the year `before and in some parts of the country, she was only known through the duets. When she took ill, Motown sent out Ann Bogan and Barbara Randolph [[who was also beginning her Motown career) to cover for Tammi with Marvin. Marvin would have been the draw.
I doubt if Marvin performed more than 2 or 3 duets with Tammi, Ann & Barbara.

In 1967, most blacks got their entertainment news from news from Jet, Ebony or Soul newspaper so it took months before the entire country even knew Tammi was seriously ill. Keith Hughes' notes for "...Real Thing" in The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 8 back this up. Hughes said out of respect for Tammi's privacy, Motown kept quiet about her illness. Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing was released in March of 1968.

[reese]

Did Marvin and Mary and Marvin and Kim do live performances together? How many shows did Barbara Randolph do with him? I assume Oma did none!

I think Mary and Kim had left the company by the time their duets hit. I vaguely recall a mention in the notes of Marvin's dvd that said that for one tv performance of IT TAKES TWO, Marvin actually sang to a stuffed animal in Kim's absence.

Barbara Randolph has mentioned that she filled in for Tammi at an engagement at the Apollo. For at least one performance, Marvin didn't show up and she had to go on alone.

[jboy88]

Basically, I was thinking since Ain't no Mountain High Enough, and Your Precious Love were the only two hits released prior to Tammi's illness,[[though there was that improptu performance of You're All I Need" in mid '69) they would have at least performed "It Takes Two". Marvin & Tammi was a hot commotity in '67 so wouldn't be suprised to find that they had a slew of encore request.

[positivesoul]

I recall radio ads when Tammi performed a show in Jersey [[Lawnside?) with Marvin after her illness became known [[I think Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing was out). I was too young to attend, but the show was definitely billed as a "Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell Show". Tammi was not just an opening act who joined Marvin for a few tunes at that time.

[midnightman]

Wow, so all that mess about Tammi fainting onstage was a fabrication? I wonder how so many biographies have often misconstrued what happened tonight. I don't think Tammi was an opening act at all. I think she and Marvin were the main headliners so I would think they shared the same stage for 90 minutes or however long R&B shows were at the time. There were accounts that when Tammi performed, she brought the same kind of energy Patti LaBelle was bringing to her shows. And that this made Marvin compete with her to get big cheers lol I'm sure they were the talk of the town before, during and after their performances together. :)

[Motown_M_1056]

I recall radio ads when Tammi performed a show in Jersey [[Lawnside?) with Marvin after her illness became known [[I think Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing was out). I was too young to attend, but the show was definitely billed as a "Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell Show". Tammi was not just an opening act who joined Marvin for a few tunes at that time.

By the time Keep On Lovin' Me, Honey had been issued, Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell were known hitmakers. They had at least 2 albums to their credit with 5 or 6 singles. She would have gotten equal billing with Marvin by then and perhaps an entire stage act of duets would have been developed by 1968. But the facts show that Tammi was ill for most of 1968, in and out of the hospital, so how many actual performances did she fulfill?
I'd like to see some factual evidence- like a review from Variety or some other publication. Back then, Variety's critics often gave the running length of concerts and nightclub acts as well as the songs performed, opening acts, etc..
In 1967, Motown was still building Tammi's career, and like I said, there were segments iof the country where she was not that well known during the Summer of 1967. That's not discrediting Tammi. But Marvin had headlined the Copa that summer.

There was a photo of Marvin Gaye & Barbara Randolph in one of J. Randy Taraborrelli's books on Motown. In the photo, Marvin & Barbara ARE Ccearly singing. I'm not sure what venue it was taken.

Midnightman, James Brown and Elvis didn't or rarely did 90-minute concerts in the Sixties. At the most, audiences got a tight 30 to 45 minutes. Listen to the Aretha In Paris LP> It contains most of her act from 1968. She was not onstage for 90 minutes.

Do you honestly believe Marvin & Tammi could do 90 minutes in 1967 or 1968 with Tammi's fragile health condition?
The two albums: United and You're All I Need....don't have 90 minutes of material on them combined. Those 90 minute concerts didn't come along until the late Seventies or 1980s.

[reese]

I thought the Hampden-Sydney college concert was the last performance by Marvin and Tammi, but maybe there were a few others afterwards. After that, aside from a brief 1969 solo concert mentioned in the recent book on her, it seems whatever performing Tammi did was in the studio to complete the YOU'RE ALL I NEED album which wasn't released until August of 1968, with liner notes specificially stating that personal appearances had been denied the public due to Tammi's illness.

Come to think of it, I've never seen any photos of Marvin and Tammi together onstage, aside from the one taken at Hampden-Sydney. Other than that, the photos were taken at various tv appearances.

[jboy88]

I've seen that photo of MG and Barbara in my copy of TCMS 1968. I think it's Barbara at least. I left all my sets a home so I can't check to be sure right away.

As far as substitutions on stage go, Brenda Holloway also stated that she performed with Marvin at least Once while TT was in the hospital. Any thoughts on that.

[positivesoul]

Not trying to discount ALL of the points presented, but some do need refining. For the record when Real Thing came out the You're All I Need album was not yet released. Also, I'm not saying Tammi necessarily had the same amount of stage time as Marvin, but she was a real star once Mountain established the Marvin & Tammi phenom, especially in soul circles. The real draw was the DUO from that point.

Tho not exactly comparing apples to apples, the example of the J5 shows that 1 major hit with the anticipation of more on the way can catapult real talent to star and headliner status seemingly overnight. My main point is that Tammi was not perceived as a mere opener with Marvin.

[motown_david]

I have a copy of Soul newspaper somewhere with a photo of Brenda Hollloway on the front cover. The article stated that she had appeared on stage with Marvin as his duet partner, filling in for an ill Taiim.

[topdiva1]

Most of the dates for Marvin and Tammy had to be canceled - those that could not be canceled - other singers filled in - like Kim Weston, and Brenda Holloway.

[Motown_M_1056]

Not trying to discount ALL of the points presented, but some do need refining. For the record when Real Thing came out the You're All I Need album was not yet released. Also, I'm not saying Tammi necessarily had the same amount of stage time as Marvin, but she was a real star once Mountain established the Marvin & Tammi phenom, especially in soul circles. The real draw was the DUO from that point.

Tho not exactly comparing apples to apples, the example of the J5 shows that 1 major hit with the anticipation of more on the way can catapult real talent to star and headliner status seemingly overnight. My main point is that Tammi was not perceived as a mere opener with Marvin.

I will clarify something as well.
Rather than say Tammi might have been an opening act for Marvin, I'll say she may have been a "support act."
Maybe she didn't necessarily open his shows, another performer could have done that. But she was most likely part of his show/revue.
I will agree that had she not gotten ill, Marvin & Tammi would have been headliners by 1968. But I agree with Reese, so little is known about Tammi touring with Marvin. Ludie's book didn't mention many Marvin & Tammi concerts. And Ludie would know better than anyone.
Again, the liner notes for "...Real Thing." in The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 8 are most revealing.
"A little more than two weeks after recording their voices, on Saturday, October 14, 1967, Marvin & Tammi were performing onstage during homecoming weekend at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia. Tammi collapsed in Marvin's arms...."Other notes in TCMS Vol. 7 state she was in the hospital by November, 1967 and for much of 1968. It is known that Tammi did make a brief visit to Hitsville studios in May, 1968.
According to the liner notes in the excellent Come On & See Me, many of the songs on You're All I Need like Memory Chest & More, More, More had been Tammi solos recorded before 1968. When she became ill, producers had Marvin overdub or blend his vocals in on her tracks.
It is documented fact that Tammi was present in the studio when You're All I Need... and Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing were recorded, But I believe these were some of the last recordings she attempted.