Diana Ross last Gown as a Supreme

[captainjames]

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Can anyone confirm that this was the last Supreme gown worn by Diana Ross as a Supreme.

[Methuselah2]

That's the one.

Worn 1/14/70.
NEW FRONTIER HOTEL & CASINO.
Designer: Bob Mackie.

[RobertZ]

Sure looks like the gown in the "Farewell" booklet pics

[REDHOT]

Those gowns were design for The Supremes,for the G.I.T Special,for tv,with The Temptations.

[skooldem1]

The only down side to the Mary Wilson gown exhibit IMO, is the fact that many, if not all of the gowns have been altered. It takes away from the authenticity of it all.

[blackguy69]

you have to remember they had to fit whoever came in. most of the gown are still in its original design.

[supremester]

These gowns, perhaps my faves, have had their brilliant design mucked up. I got sick when I saw that Mary cut the fluted bottoms off. Don't get me started, I'm really glad they are surviving and on display, but I hate that these works of art were changed so much - not just for size. Why did they have to wear these anyway? They had tons of 70's gowns - when last worn,these were older than the balloon gowns from The Apollo were on Jan 14, 1970. Why were MSS wearing these? They should have been retired and treasured and preserved as the last DR&TS gowns worn.

[Methuselah2]

I think the dress in question had a short life span by design. Heavy jeweled sleeves paired with a very heavy velvet. Great for a TV special; probably torturous to perform in on stage because of the weight and heat. For TV, they were designed for specific size and purpose. But once the show was over and the personnel of the group started to change, the gowns had to be altered if they were still to be of use. It was unavoidable. But those gowns--as eye-catching as they were--were never meant for nightclub work.

[captainjames]

Well, I would have to agree this gown if it was the last one worn by Diana Ross should have been preserved. Also, I feel Flo's and Mary's last gown as a Supreme should have been preserved as well. That would have shown a better transition over a period of time and Supreme history.

[floyjoy678]

Does anyone know exactly what were Flo and Mary's last gowns worn as Supremes?

[supremester]

Clearly not meant for stage work, but maybe they were only used for TV by The 70s groupings. In any event, alterations are one thing, destroying the look of perhaps their best of their iconic wardrobe by eliminating the fluted bottoms for a cheap fix bites. Sadly, after seven plus years, they were still the best gowns JMC & their successors had. They needed a stylist badly, were there stylists back then?


I think the dress in question had a short life span by design. Heavy jeweled sleeves paired with a very heavy velvet. Great for a TV special; probably torturous to perform in on stage because of the weight and heat. For TV, they were designed for specific size and purpose. But once the show was over and the personnel of the group started to change, the gowns had to be altered if they were still to be of use. It was unavoidable. But those gowns--as eye-catching as they were--were never meant for nightclub work.

[Methuselah2]

"I'm goin' gown, gown, for the 3rd time":

This is just a guess but perhaps the original, beautiful hemline had to be sacrificed when the gown required shortening. Otherwise, the entire gown would have needed to be completely re-proportioned. Basically remade. And it still might not have worked well enough in the end. The fans love and admire the gowns. But for The Supremes, they were 'work uniforms' and had to be dealt with as such. I just wish full body shots of the gowns being worn had been taken, collected, and published.

[blackguy69]

I guess i never thought about it that way. also money was getting tighter and they had to recycle some of the gown. i will say this the late 60's gowns should've been retired by the time Scherrie came on board.

[captainjames]

Does anyone know exactly what were Flo and Mary's last gowns worn as Supremes?

Its hard to say with Flo because I honestly don't know when her last performance was with the Mary and Diana. Mary last performance was not in the US [[at least that is what I remember). I think they wore the Batwings outfits at that time.

[thomas96]

Can someone here help me understand why some people are so fascinated by the Supremes' gowns?

[blackguy69]

i think Mary has the last gown she wore as a Supremes.

[blackguy69]

i think i know this answer. Flo last apperance they were wearing tuxedo suits. for Mary it was the Green dresses with the sequin top and the puffy flowing bottoms.

[captainjames]

i think i know this answer. Flo last apperance they were wearing tuxedo suits. for Mary it was the Green dresses with the sequin top and the puffy flowing bottoms.

Thanks that will help.

[supremester]

Probably not. As Maude Findlay once retorted, "If you have to ask, it doesn't matter." Assuming your question is not some passive/aggressive attempt to show disapproval or contempt for the topic, I'll ask you: What type of answer would suffice? Like: WHY Supremes gowns? Why gowns at all? Would you go to a Lionel board if there is one and ask why the fascination with cabooses? A chess forum about a certain move? A stamp forum about a certain imperfection? On a board like this where catalog numbers, written numbers on vinyl margins, pressing differentials and like minutiae are all discussed, it's an interesting question. Would all of these things and the millions like them need explaining - or just Supremes gowns? Have you ever thought about why whatever fascinates you, fascinates YOU? How would you answer? I used to ask my straight friends what it was about a certain part of the female anatomy that fascinates them so - the answer? "They just do."

The real answer is that The Supremes gowns were famous for their class, expense and bling and became part of The group's legend. Often in press releases, the fact that some gowns cost $5000 each [[in 1969 dollars) was mentioned. On a more simple level, being a group loved by millions, their clothes, like The Beatles suits are iconic and treasured parts of the Supremes legacy. Enough are fascinated that the gowns travel around the world for viewing.
Can someone here help me understand why some people are so fascinated by the Supremes' gowns?

[supremester]

LOL... good line ; )

Yur right of course, I was just sad to see them that way at the exhibit. You have to admit it was thoughtless of Mary to alter my fave gowns so drastically without even running the idea by me first.


"I'm goin' gown, gown, for the 3rd time":

This is just a guess but perhaps the original, beautiful hemline had to be sacrificed when the gown required shortening. Otherwise, the entire gown would have needed to be completely re-proportioned. Basically remade. And it still might not have worked well enough in the end. The fans love and admire the gowns. But for The Supremes, they were 'work uniforms' and had to be dealt with as such. I just wish full body shots of the gowns being worn had been taken, collected, and published.

[sup_fan]

i didn't have too much of a problem with the reusing of the gowns. they'd become iconic within show business. also they'd invested TONS of money in the wardrobe. i think it would have been foolish to simply "hang them up" after a few wearings. even Diana reused costumes over the years.

with each new grouping, new alterations had to be made. they had to see what gown fit whom, what ones could be easily altered based on the changes needed, style, etc. the 70s groupings did have a lot of outfits made for them. there are about 169 or so sets of outfits for the girls from 61 - 77. about 1/3 were from the 70s.

what i didn't like was when a gown was significantly altered stylistically. like the green swirl TCB gowns. one had odd armband/sleeve added, another a short cape. and the neckerchief was discarded.

[sup_fan]

also the orange pantsuits worn on the final Hollywood Palace show were the actual last gowns DESIGNED for DRATS. but you're right, the black velvet Bolero outfit was the last one worn. it was designed for GIT which was taped in late summer/fall 69.

[supremester]

I hated the changes to the swirl gowns as well, plus, they were really not intended for wear into The 70's as styles had changed so. The swirls were stupendous for 1968 - mind boggling in design for the day, in fact. Those shots in the sand box are absurd. they did use the rainbow sequin gowns in the 70s and they worked real well. I think I saw them in the gold pleated sleeves too.

Certainly Miss ross is getting a lot of mileage out of her closet - the black velvet that wowed The AMAs so much I have seen for decades, but she's not trying to prove herself anymore. JMC needed a stylist or designer very bad to work on their total looks. That last outfit they wore on Merv was killer and Jean had finally, IMHO, become a star but I guess it was too late for her as she quit soon after.

[bradsupremes]

Don't believe everything you read online about the gowns. There's one person in particular who has given out so much false information about the gowns that they have duped a lot of people into believing these lies as fact. Especially when they've never had access to gowns. This will be corrected though in time.

[blackguy69]

Which outfit was that

[sup_fan]

the JMC did have a new stylist. their look evolved into more modern pantsuits and afros post Diana. they had about 7 new sets in the first year/year and a half. by later in 71 they started getting into some other new outfits - blue hot pants with red statin halters and lace-up shoes, worn on the intro to Flip Wilson, the short white jersey gowns from Stephen Burrows that they wore for their big Central Park concert and the stylist also did totally new looks for them with their hair and jewelry. there was the lavender sequin gowns which could have the skirts removed and then paired with black pants and black jackets.

i think the problems might have started when Cindy left. IMO that's also when tensions started to rise with motown too. 71 had been a bit of a hit and miss year. nathan jones hit while Touch and You Gotta Have Love tanked. they were ready to rebound with Floy Joy but then Cindy left and that cause more upheaval. Lynda came in and then the singles really started failing [[not because of her though). so the group's sound was totally in flux here too. they tried some new looks - the big baggy floral gowns they wore for an opening in LA [[hideous lol) the simple chiffon gowns from Kate Smith special. they also were ready to do the wig commercials but then the group really splintered and so that ended that

with Scherrie coming on board, they seemed to revert back to sequin gowns. with disco on the rise, glitter and glam was becoming more in style again. after the grittiness of the early 70s. Pat Campano was their new stylist here. and he did the majority of the outfits from here on out. they kept the glitter but i wonder if they could have done more with the looks of the times - something more Halston-esqe.

[blackguy69]

Does anyone know which gowns were destroyed in that Mexico City fire. I think Mary said 8 sets were destroyed and most of them were from the drats period

[sup_fan]

from what i've heard:

1. the yellow indian maiden gowns from GIT
2. the gold Dolman sleeves from GIT and final DRATS Ed Sullivan
3. the black beaded "Forever Came Today" gowns
4. the fireworks pantsuit from No Matter What Sign You Are
5. the gold sequins from cover of Right On
6. the black and white sequin gowns - one of the first MSC gowns. mary had white, cindy was black and scherrie was a checkered pattern of b&w. they were remade shortly after
7. the red and gold MSC gowns from All I Want on Sonny & Cher - the sleeves were melted and remade

another gown that was rumored to be in Mexico City were the short white gowns from MJC in Central Park. pics of MSC in these outfits exist and were taken shortly after Scherrie joined and prior to Mexico City fire. never seen again. they're also rumored to be in the Smithsonian as a [[currently undisplayed) exhibit in the African American museum as Stephen Burrows, the designer, was an african american designer. to be honest, i'm not sure. just sharing info from a few sources online

[blackguy69]

from what i've heard:

1. the yellow indian maiden gowns from GIT
2. the gold Dolman sleeves from GIT and final DRATS Ed Sullivan
3. the black beaded "Forever Came Today" gowns
4. the fireworks pantsuit from No Matter What Sign You Are
5. the gold sequins from cover of Right On
6. the black and white sequin gowns - one of the first MSC gowns. mary had white, cindy was black and scherrie was a checkered pattern of b&w. they were remade shortly after
7. the red and gold MSC gowns from All I Want on Sonny & Cher - the sleeves were melted and remade

another gown that was rumored to be in Mexico City were the short white gowns from MJC in Central Park. pics of MSC in these outfits exist and were taken shortly after Scherrie joined and prior to Mexico City fire. never seen again. they're also rumored to be in the Smithsonian as a [[currently undisplayed) exhibit in the African American museum as Stephen Burrows, the designer, was an african american designer. to be honest, i'm not sure. just sharing info from a few sources online

what about the beige chandelier dresses they wore from 67 thru 72. i never saw them again after lynda left

[sup_fan]

a few other noteworthy gowns have gone missing, aside from all of the older Flo era ones which are MIA too. again, just sharing info the Stephen and others have discussed in various forums. i'm not privy to the info that Brad has, since he worked with mary. would love to hear more of his stories and if i'm misquoting anything, please correct.

White pantsuits - MJC wore many times, cover of Greatest Hits and Rare Classics. MJL wore on Soul Train. Mary writes about a set of gowns that went to the designer for repairs, only to be stolen and never located. supposedly its this set

maternity outfits - mary had several maternity gowns added to the Scherrie era sets. the green chiffon, red sequins, zebras, the b&w ones redone from the mex fire, and a gown set that's been called Stardust [[not sure if that's really the name) which is pale blue and is pictured in the Let Yourself Go cd set

Gowns that were altered - the green chiffon ones underwent a few alterations. the bodice was a sequin pattern, sort of like a snakeskin design. i think they had sequins added to the skirts to give them more "oomph" when under stage lighting, scherries neckline was originally a serpent and this was redone. mary also had these odd sleeve/cuffs that went on her forearms. i've only seen 1 pic of these. her maternity dress was added later

[marybrewster]

the JMC did have a new stylist. their look evolved into more modern pantsuits and afros post Diana. they had about 7 new sets in the first year/year and a half. by later in 71 they started getting into some other new outfits - blue hot pants with red statin halters and lace-up shoes, worn on the intro to Flip Wilson, the short white jersey gowns from Stephen Burrows that they wore for their big Central Park concert and the stylist also did totally new looks for them with their hair and jewelry. there was the lavender sequin gowns which could have the skirts removed and then paired with black pants and black jackets.

i think the problems might have started when Cindy left. IMO that's also when tensions started to rise with motown too. 71 had been a bit of a hit and miss year. nathan jones hit while Touch and You Gotta Have Love tanked. they were ready to rebound with Floy Joy but then Cindy left and that cause more upheaval. Lynda came in and then the singles really started failing [[not because of her though). so the group's sound was totally in flux here too. they tried some new looks - the big baggy floral gowns they wore for an opening in LA [[hideous lol) the simple chiffon gowns from Kate Smith special. they also were ready to do the wig commercials but then the group really splintered and so that ended that

with Scherrie coming on board, they seemed to revert back to sequin gowns. with disco on the rise, glitter and glam was becoming more in style again. after the grittiness of the early 70s. Pat Campano was their new stylist here. and he did the majority of the outfits from here on out. they kept the glitter but i wonder if they could have done more with the looks of the times - something more Halston-esqe.

This is one of the best posts I've read in a long time.

I have a couple of my own theories as well; perhaps as the line-ups kept changing, Mary brought back some of the "iconic" gowns, simply because of the familiarity with the fans.

As these dresses were being altered, I don't think anyone, including Mary, had the mindset of someday these will make a good exhibition. I think simply, it was just use what you got. Mary was still wearing some of these dresses into the 1980's; the green "swirl" dress comes to mind, as well as the one shoulder, "ink spots".

Mary had a stylist in the 80's, Allen Poe, which is when most, if not all, of the Supremes gowns were retired. Allen designed her white "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Dress", as well as several others [[including a black bustier-style dress). These dresses had matching sleeveless gloves, with feathers.

It was when The Supremes were inducted, and the Motown Cafe's opened, that there suddenly was interest in all of the gowns. Mary was smart to have hung on to some of them; most of them. Some have slipped through the cracks; some were loaned and never returned, some perhaps are still in the archives at Motown.

[sup_fan]

here are pics of the Mex fire gowns. also i forgot one from the fire - the chandelier gowns from Tennessee Ernie Ford special

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this last one is the pic i reference where MSC are in the white Central Park dresses for one of the last times

[sup_fan]

forgot the gold ones

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and there's the green gowns with the original serpent neckline and mary's sleeve

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here's the white pantsuits that are MIA

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[sup_fan]

here are some various outfits that seem to only appear briefly

these were the gowns that Randy T said were designed for the MJL opening at the Grove in LA. said they were used once and then never again. not sure why - maybe they didn't like, or were experimenting with a designer. i believe the pic was colorized and that these are the actual gown colors

8746

there was an article about this guy being hired to design new looks for the girls. he's in the pink with the girls

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here are the hot pants from Flip Wilson. rather fierce! lol

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here's an interesting pic. this definitely looks like they're on the set for Glenn Campbell. no idea what they're wearing though. not the pink pantsuits we saw on tv.

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[blackguy69]

I know one of mary's maternity dresses was on display [[ the green one). I did see a pic of her in the red one during her solo debut in 1979

[skooldem1]

What were the details surrounding this fire?

[blackguy69]

i never knew they wore the hot pants on stage. thats pretty bold

[sup_fan]

the girls were getting sassy in the 70s lol

as for the fire, i'm not sure. i've heard it was an electrical fire, a careless cigarette.

i heard they were also traveling with those brown sequin pantsuits with the feather coats. those were in a trunk or outside of the room or something and weren't damaged. so they had to make due with those. there's a pic of MCS on a mexican temple in the beginning of the Let Yourself Go booklet. i'm wondering if it's from this period

[sup_fan]

MaryBrewster - i agree! i could talk about the gowns for hours lolol. and while i know some fans find it silly or bit superficial, style and image was a HUGE component to the Supremes. so i think it warrants discussions among the fans.

[blackguy69]

is it possible to view the booklet online would love to see ut

[Philles/Motown Gary]

There's no doubt about it -- The Supremes were the best-dressed of all of Motown's female performers. I've gotta say, however, that I've always cringed [[and still do) whenever I see a photo or a video of any version of the 1970's Supremes wearing gowns leftover from the glory days with Diana. Seeing the ladies dressed in the TCB and GIT On Broadway gowns is but a sad reminder that Berry Gordy had washed his hands of the group, thus forcing the girls to settle for instantly-recognizable hand-me-downs which had to be a slap in the face to the girls. I have the utmost respect for Berry, but, damn....the '70's Supremes were highly talented, too, and deserved so much better.

[skooldem1]

How does one know what gowns were in the fire? Is it because they were never seen again, or worn by the group in the 70's? Are there any gowns that were thought to have been in the fire, but resurfaced? Why were all those gowns in storage in Mexico?

[reese]

How does one know what gowns were in the fire? Is it because they were never seen again, or worn by the group in the 70's? Are there any gowns that were thought to have been in the fire, but resurfaced? Why were all those gowns in storage in Mexico?

The gowns weren't in storage in Mexico. The girls were doing an engagement there and there was a fire in their dressing room, resulting in nine sets of gowns being destroyed.

[blackguy69]

It was 8 sets that were destroyed

[supremester]

Remember WHY berry washed his hands of the group? it wasn't like he did it to be mean or hurtful to the group. He thought Jean was wrong and knew how important the front woman to the group was. He didn't want to be saddled with struggling to put a group over he didn't believe in and Mary didn't care. She defied him and tired of arguing with her at the busiest time in his professional life, he gave her the ultimatum. Berry washed his hands, but Mary turned on the faucet and handed him the soap. Each woman was very talented, definitely true.
The look of The Supremes and DR&TS was not determined by Berry Gordy but by Miss Ross. She demanded those gowns and had a hand in designing some of them and, I believe, approved all of them. Gordy had nothing to do with The 70's supremes look because Mary took charge. All gowns were paid for by the act, Gordy only gave front money to acts with no money in the bank [[like The No Hit Supremes.) JMC didn't have to wear hand-me-downs - they chose to. Remember that every bit of choreography, set, costume, hair stylist was billed against the group. Motown gave nothing to established acts but attention - and they charged for that as well. That's how Miss Ross was able to play arenas for years around the world at top dollar, make movies and sell millions of records with a fraction of her intake to show for it.


There's no doubt about it -- The Supremes were the best-dressed of all of Motown's female performers. I've gotta say, however, that I've always cringed [[and still do) whenever I see a photo or a video of any version of the 1970's Supremes wearing gowns leftover from the glory days with Diana. Seeing the ladies dressed in the TCB and GIT On Broadway gowns is but a sad reminder that Berry Gordy had washed his hands of the group, thus forcing the girls to settle for instantly-recognizable hand-me-downs which had to be a slap in the face to the girls. I have the utmost respect for Berry, but, damn....the '70's Supremes were highly talented, too, and deserved so much better.

[sup_fan]

supremester - you're definitely right. Gordy wasn't the one that was into or demanded haute couture. the look and style of the girls was their own. it happened to also marry up nicely with his desire to have a cross-over act that could take on the high-brow night club circuit. that required a level of sophistication that frankly wasn't evident in motown's other acts. true - you don't need bugle beads, chiffon and glamor to play the Copa. but the glitz lent itself nicely to this.

in looking at the candid, casual pics of DMF, they were fashionable from the start. the outfits they wore in press pics and non-studio photos were impressive. Diana might have had the most interest in fashion, given her background and studies. but mary certainly had a strong sense of it too. flo and cindy also.

i do think that the glamor came to haunt them a bit. by the early 70s an earthier look was more prominent. less plastic.

[supremester]

I think The Supremes look was fashioned by Ross - I know she worked with designers because Bob Mackie talks about it, and, clearly, their stage wear in the 70s was not up to snuff [[IMHO) - some downright hideous. You can be fashionable and not have the ideal eye for that. In any event, they did chase their image rather than morphing and owning a changing look. My friend saw JMC or JML in Chicago and they wore hotpants and looked sensational. But they needed a visionary - a focus - a direction - a boldness - and I think they didn't have it. The other girl groups made them seem old and matronly at times. When I see that Merv show where Jean does that amazing I Guess I'll Miss The Man, she looks like a star and owns it - but I think even if Mary did have the vision, she seemed to not have the social authority with JML anyway because it never manifested itself in much to look at other than that one look and, even it was hardly a forward look. It's tough trying to keep a group on top for more than a few years. The Supremes had 7-8 big years - that's better than almost any other group I can think of.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Remember WHY berry washed his hands of the group? it wasn't like he did it to be mean or hurtful to the group. He thought Jean was wrong and knew how important the front woman to the group was. He didn't want to be saddled with struggling to put a group over he didn't believe in and Mary didn't care. She defied him and tired of arguing with her at the busiest time in his professional life, he gave her the ultimatum. Berry washed his hands, but Mary turned on the faucet and handed him the soap. Each woman was very talented, definitely true.
The look of The Supremes and DR&TS was not determined by Berry Gordy but by Miss Ross. She demanded those gowns and had a hand in designing some of them and, I believe, approved all of them. Gordy had nothing to do with The 70's supremes look because Mary took charge. All gowns were paid for by the act, Gordy only gave front money to acts with no money in the bank [[like The No Hit Supremes.) JMC didn't have to wear hand-me-downs - they chose to. Remember that every bit of choreography, set, costume, hair stylist was billed against the group. Motown gave nothing to established acts but attention - and they charged for that as well. That's how Miss Ross was able to play arenas for years around the world at top dollar, make movies and sell millions of records with a fraction of her intake to show for it.

Yeah, Supremester, but Mary had a good point. How could Berry change his mind AFTER Jean had already been introduced at the Farewell performance as Diana’s replacement? [[If I recall, Jean had already been rehearsing with Mary and Cindy, hadn’t she?)


Regarding the gowns, after learning that The Supremes went from chauffeur-driven limos to having to call their own taxi, it just rubs me the wrong way when I see the girls wearing gowns left over from the glory days with Diana, just as it would bother me to have seen Diana wearing gowns left over from DRATS in her new solo act. Maybe it's just me, but....it seems sad.

[blackguy69]

A good number of gowns were still new when Diana left did we expect them to replace them all once she left?

[sup_fan]

DMC wore quite a few gowns from the DMF era - so what's the difference simply because it was jean joining and diana leaving. and it wasn't just the transition months either after Flo left. the pink chiffon and the white sequin with the diagonal pearl stripes were worn for years after Flo.

[supremester]

Gary: Please understand that I am not Mary bashing here at all, but some facts need to be out there. Mary & berry had been arguing about Jean for a while before Farewell. I don't know exactly what he didn't like as she certainly was talented, but he felt she was wrong [[and I agree.) Mary wrote her book in a manner that makes her seem like the ultimate victim, however, it was Mary that refused to work with Syreeta because Mary wanted to be top dog and was afraid Syreeta would, too. I'm guessing that after seeing Jean onstage, Berry was convinced and it culminated in the hand washing. While it's true that Jean was "announced to the world" there was no internet - very little press, jean was an unknown, and Syreeta could easily have been put in with very little explanation to the press. [[When I first saw Cindy, I was horrified "WHERE'S FLO????????? - there was no press on it around here anyway.) Up The Ladder would still have hit and all would have been fine.
Jean HAD been working with Mary & Cindy and recorded a lot, but so what? Ultimately the most important thing was what was best for the group. It would have been just too bad for Jean, pay her off and send her back to Miami with her brother. That's show biz. Sadly, those great tracks on side 1 of Right On may never have come out, though.
The limo story, as told, is hog wash. No one was keeping JMC from getting limos - they only had to be ordered. Motown never provided any act with Limos - the acts all paid for them out of their own pocket. I don't know, but I'm guessing that either this particular case was a slip up and none available, or, because of the snow, there was another reason. Normally for gigs, the promoter arranges for and pays for the limo. This was for a rehearsal and so it was up to the act. Dial 7 Car Service would have been happy to cart JMC around NYC.
Lots of stories in Mary's books have been.......... written in such a manner as to exaggerate or distort the whole truth and nothing but the truth in order to create sympathy and animosity for certain parties.
Regarding the gowns , I agree 100%. I didn't want to see either new act in last years gowns. If I were Jean, I'd have refused to wear DR&TS gowns period. They should have had a totally new look and made a new statement: "We are now THIS!!!"
Yes, they were new and it wooda been wasteful, but it wooda been worth it. For what NBC paid for GIT,[[assuming DR&TS ever got their fee - which I doubt) those gowns were already paid for many times over.

[sup_fan]

i think it's clear that there were many outfits and gowns commissioned for the 70s grouping. about 1/3 of the total known outfits. so we can't say they simply reused old gowns.

some things that we could suggest though are:

1) did they have as clear, fresh or "new" of a style as they did with Diana? i think in many cases they did. it's a matter of opinion
2) did they debut outfits as boldly or as often - it seems that with each new tv appearance DRATS came out in some new outfit. many of the 70s sups examples that are visible today have them in DRATS outfits - lp covers for Right On and New Ways, many of the existing tapes of tv shows have them in old gowns. My opinion on this is we're only seeing a limited number of appearances. there are many tv appearances or magazine articles that we simply don't have access to today. and they were always appearing on stage some place and so who knows what they wore there.
3) continuity of the group - They were still the same group, just 1 new member in Jean. so if they totally dropped the image and look of the group AND lost Diana, it would have been too much change. could have alienated the fan base

[stephanie]

If you look at the big picture Mary standing up to Berry about Jean staying is one of the smartest moves she ever made for the group! They had major hits with Jean and couple of minor ones but it didnt put the group out to pasture. Mary was not just a pretty face.

[supremester]

Respectfully, I say to thee: I muchly, muchly disagree.
A) I think those same singles would have sold as well or better with Syreeta [[except EGTRTL - that was a murderously deft vocal that I doubt Syreeta could have nailed.). Jean had a great voice but as a pop vocalist, she was inexperienced and it showed back in the day. I remember dismissing her vocal on River Deep as "wannabe." And, the public never embraced Jean's voice as album sales were increasingly disappointing - even at their height, as concert sales dwindled.
B) Jean was very mature looking, Syreeta had a more youthful pop style about her - much easier for the younger market to identify with. I def think Jean was a big neg in this dept.
C) I don't think Berry was too impressed with Mary period. I base this on his behavior over the years and things said to me personally by Harvey, Gil and Cholly. I would think Mary might have picked up on this and realized she might be making a big mistake by telling BERRY GORDY "NO!" If the girl didn't learn anything from Flo & David Ruffin and Ross not being able to eat, God help her. You don't "F" with BG. Period. Mary has made other major decisions in her life that have come back to bite her in the ass. Nes pas? If I were Berry, I'd have done the same thing. Launching Ross, The J5, emerging Gladys, dealing with Marvin, the explosion of The Tempts and trying to save The 4 Tops and Martha was enough to deal with without trying to launch a group of Supremes he didn't believe in. If I was Mary, I'd have called him back and said, "maybe you're right, but please be gentle with Jean." taken a Seconal and gone back to sleep with my phone off the hook.
If you look at the big picture Mary standing up to Berry about Jean staying is one of the smartest moves she ever made for the group! They had major hits with Jean and couple of minor ones but it didnt put the group out to pasture. Mary was not just a pretty face.

[bradsupremes]

Yes, most of the gowns destroyed in the Mexico fire were trademark gowns like the chandelier gowns, the blue silver & green jumpsuits, and the yellow fringe & rhinestone jumpsuits; however a few exceptions survived and others mistakenly believed to have been in the fire do survive.

If any of you are in the UK and around Liverpool, there is a set of gowns from Mary's collection on display for the first time since they were last worn 40 years ago...

[supremester]

It's a shame the black gowns are gone. Mary looked so good in that - I think it was her best look.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

[QUOTE=supremester;261655] Gary: Please understand that I am not Mary bashing here at all, but some facts need to be out there./QUOTE]

[B]Thanks, Supremester. Everything I know [[or thought I knew) has been based on what I've read in Mary's books, Randy's Diana books, and countless other behind-the-scenes Motown books. You've given me something new to think about. Don't worry, I didn't think you were Mary-bashing. I wouldn't take sides anyway. I've always loved both Diana and Mary, and I'm sure that whatever happened, they both had their faults. I wasn't there, but I know that there were two sides to every story -- some fair, and some highly unfair, but on whose part?. Although I love hearing and learning about the dirt and everything else Motown related, I keep the artists separate from the art -- separate from the music. Besides, we'll probably never know what really went on. It may be just as well! [B]

[Philles/Motown Gary]

DMC wore quite a few gowns from the DMF era.
Really, sup_fan? That surprises me. In my opinion, at the time, Diana, Mary, & Flo always looked and dressed a notch above the other Motown girl groups [[whereas The Vandellas & The Marvelettes looked and dressed a notch above other non-Motown girl groups). When Flo left and Cindy entered in 1967, however, Motown glammed up ALL of the Motown female acts, especially Diana Ross & The Supremes. In my eyes, Diana, Mary & Flo’s pre-1967 gowns, which once seemed elegant and a notch above the others, now seemed somewhat plain compared to Diana, Mary & Cindy’s gowns. I don’t remember DM&C ever reverting back to the pre-1967 gowns. [[Well, there is one exception – the dresses on the top center of the Reflections LP cover where the girls are wearing cheap-looking black dresses with white vertical stripes always seemed kind of hokey and plain for DM&C – very pre-1967, if you will.

I’ve gotta admit, I don’t know diddly-squat about the gowns like some of you guys do. When you describe the "chandelier" gowns and other such creations, I don’t know what the heck you’re referring to nor what material they’re made of. I just know that, although the music comes first for me, I do love and appreciate the overall look and elegance of Motown’s mid-to-late '60's girl groups -- especially post-'67. I’m most impressed by things like The Supremes’ "TCB" green swirl gowns; The Supremes’ black and white gowns and pumps worn in the unused segment of "GIT On Broadway" [[which looked way too gorgeous to leave out of any broadcast); Martha Reeves & The Vandellas’ "Sugar & Spice" LP gowns, and The Marvelettes’ "Sophisticated Soul" gowns. Motown had the class and the financial muscle to pull it all off like nobody else. THAT I know for sure.

[supremester]

I knew when I read Dreamgirl that it was so slanted to vilify Diana & Berry in every way possible because of the creative way facts were presented - even little things like the limo story, Flo on The Tonight Show or the first year comparison of JMC vs Diana are all total falsehoods or, in the comparison, completely misleading. So I began to question other parts of it. Until then, I was naive enough to think it had to be true if you wrote it about someone. After a very long talk with Gil Askey, I learned what I believe to be the truth and why. With the internet, I learned that if A, B, &C are lies for sure - maybe take a closer look at D, E, &F if they also support the same ideology. I saw an interview of Diana from '93 where she states that on the Dick Tour, their record became a hit and then it was over for them as people. They became a commodity instantly and there was no one to support them or guide them through literally overnight success. I don't blame any of them for however they acted. Flo drank and got kicked out, Diana was clearly emotionally abused and to the brink of emotional and physical breakdown while Mary buried jealousy & resentment while partying through it all. I'm sure Miss ross was a hellion at times - she had the most pressure on her by far and if so, write about it but make things up - you shouldn't have to. Ditto Berry, the limos, lack of promotion etc. LOL. I'm reading the new Queen ree bio "respect" and in it legendary producer John Hammond is quoted , saying everyone who never makes it as big as they think they should have, blames it on the record company promotion.
I'm with you on art vs dirt. I like both, but I only want the truth. I know what goes on at my work place and others.....I can only imagine it wasn't much different in The Supremes LOL.
[QUOTE=supremester;261655] Gary: Please understand that I am not Mary bashing here at all, but some facts need to be out there./QUOTE]

[B]Thanks, Supremester. Everything I know [[or thought I knew) has been based on what I've read in Mary's books, Randy's Diana books, and countless other behind-the-scenes Motown books. You've given me something new to think about. Don't worry, I didn't think you were Mary-bashing. I wouldn't take sides anyway. I've always loved both Diana and Mary, and I'm sure that whatever happened, they both had their faults. I wasn't there, but I know that there were two sides to every story -- some fair, and some highly unfair, but on whose part?. Although I love hearing and learning about the dirt and everything else Motown related, I keep the artists separate from the art -- separate from the music. Besides, we'll probably never know what really went on. It may be just as well! [B]

[honest man]

[
If any of you are in the UK and around Liverpool, there is a set of gowns from Mary's collection on display for the first time since they were last worn 40 years ago...[/QUOTE]Brad where and when is the diplay being featured please.Thank you.

[reese]

Really, sup_fan? That surprises me. In my opinion, at the time, Diana, Mary, & Flo always looked and dressed a notch above the other Motown girl groups [[whereas The Vandellas & The Marvelettes looked and dressed a notch above other non-Motown girl groups). When Flo left and Cindy entered in 1967, however, Motown glammed up ALL of the Motown female acts, especially Diana Ross & The Supremes. In my eyes, Diana, Mary & Flo’s pre-1967 gowns, which once seemed elegant and a notch above the others, now seemed somewhat plain compared to Diana, Mary & Cindy’s gowns. I don’t remember DM&C ever reverting back to the pre-1967 gowns. [[Well, there is one exception – the dresses on the top center of the Reflections LP cover where the girls are wearing cheap-looking black dresses with white vertical stripes always seemed kind of hokey and plain for DM&C – very pre-1967, if you will.

I’ve gotta admit, I don’t know diddly-squat about the gowns like some of you guys do. When you describe the "chandelier" gowns and other such creations, I don’t know what the heck you’re referring to nor what material they’re made of. I just know that, although the music comes first for me, I do love and appreciate the overall look and elegance of Motown’s mid-to-late '60's girl groups -- especially post-'67. I’m most impressed by things like The Supremes’ "TCB" green swirl gowns; The Supremes’ black and white gowns and pumps worn in the unused segment of "GIT On Broadway" [[which looked way too gorgeous to leave out of any broadcast); Martha Reeves & The Vandellas’ "Sugar & Spice" LP gowns, and The Marvelettes’ "Sophisticated Soul" gowns. Motown had the class and the financial muscle to pull it all off like nobody else. THAT I know for sure.



There aren't many photos around, but I have seen one of DMC wearing the gowns DMF wore when they sang MY WORLD IS EMPTY WITHOUT YOU on Ed Sullivan. I've also seen a photo of DMC wearing the DMF gowns from the Andrews Sisters medley on the Sammy Davis, Jr. show.

[captainjames]

Does anyone know if the Raggedy Ann pants suits were burned ? That was the only gown I saw them wear that I thought did not look Supreme. It was even worse than the Love Child street clothes.

[Methuselah2]

These gowns are a complete mystery to me, although the hair says TOUCH album photoshoot. Anyone know anything about these, such as the color?

8761

[honest man]

I knew when I read Dreamgirl that it was so slanted to vilify Diana & Berry in every way possible because of the creative way facts were presented - even little things like the limo story, Flo on The Tonight Show or the first year comparison of JMC vs Diana are all total falsehoods or, in the comparison, completely misleading. So I began to question other parts of it. Until then, I was naive enough to think it had to be true if you wrote it about someone. After a very long talk with Gil Askey, I learned what I believe to be the truth and why. With the internet, I learned that if A, B, &C are lies for sure - maybe take a closer look at D, E, &F if they also support the same ideology. I saw an interview of Diana from '93 where she states that on the Dick Tour, their record became a hit and then it was over for them as people. They became a commodity instantly and there was no one to support them or guide them through literally overnight success. I don't blame any of them for however they acted. Flo drank and got kicked out, Diana was clearly emotionally abused and to the brink of emotional and physical breakdown while Mary buried jealousy & resentment while partying through it all. I'm sure Miss ross was a hellion at times - she had the most pressure on her by far and if so, write about it but make things up - you shouldn't have to. Ditto Berry, the limos, lack of promotion etc. LOL. I'm reading the new Queen ree bio "respect" and in it legendary producer John Hammond is quoted , saying everyone who never makes it as big as they think they should have, blames it on the record company promotion.
I'm with you on art vs dirt. I like both, but I only want the truth. I know what goes on at my work place and others.....I can only imagine it wasn't much different in The Supremes LOL. [QUOTE=Philles/Motown Gary;261759]Iput Mary Wilson's books in the same league as the BROTHERS GRIMM FAIRY TALES,Also put them in the trash bin,Good Riddance.cheers

[milven]

I'm not into the gown subject, and yet - I do have a question about them.

When the Supremes debuted on Sullivan, the show was in black and white. There is a popular colorized version of the show and it shows them in pink dresses. Were they actually pink or were they a different color?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXVE1VgRZjY

[milven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWnZgIbCGDM

[marybrewster]

I'm not into the gown subject, and yet - I do have a question about them.

When the Supremes debuted on Sullivan, the show was in black and white. There is a popular colorized version of the show and it shows them in pink dresses. Were they actually pink or were they a different color?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXVE1VgRZjY

I've read that these are not pink; I think the're either baby blue or green.

[reese]

I'm not into the gown subject, and yet - I do have a question about them.

When the Supremes debuted on Sullivan, the show was in black and white. There is a popular colorized version of the show and it shows them in pink dresses. Were they actually pink or were they a different color?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXVE1VgRZjY

On her 1977 tv special, Diana says they were light blue.

[milven]

Thank you MB and Reese.

[bradsupremes]

- The short dresses worn for "Come See About Me" on Sullivan were light blue, not pink.

- The mystery gowns worn during the Touch photo sessions are a reddish/maroon color and in Mary's collection.

- There were many of the gowns used in the transition from Florence to Cindy. Some were older gowns dating back to early 1966 and others many believed were created for Cindy were actually created for Florence and worn by her. A lot of false information has been stated about this by some who don't know the full story especially one particular individual.

- As for the UK exhibit, it's the British Invasion exhibit at the Beatles Story in Liverpool. The exhibit was put together by the Grammy Museum. A set of gowns were loaned for the exhibit that haven't been used in any of Mary's previous exhibits.

[supremester]

Raggedy Ann pant suits? Which are they?
Does anyone know if the Raggedy Ann pants suits were burned ? That was the only gown I saw them wear that I thought did not look Supreme. It was even worse than the Love Child street clothes.

[bradsupremes]

Raggedy Ann pant suits? Which are they?

These are referred to as the "Raggedy Ann" pant suits. These did not burn in the fire in Mexico.
8763

[Methuselah2]

- The mystery gowns worn during the Touch photo sessions are a reddish/maroon color and in Mary's collection.

Thank you Brad.

[mojoman]

The red pants suits worn by JMC for their debut on Ed Sullivan look radically altered and worn by MSS on American Bandstand when they did "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking".

[franjoy56]

DMC wore quite a few gowns from the DMF era - so what's the difference simply because it was jean joining and diana leaving. and it wasn't just the transition months either after Flo left. the pink chiffon and the white sequin with the diagonal pearl stripes were worn for years after Flo.sups fan thank u for posting all these gowns with the diff. Groups of the act. I went to the central park concert in sept 70, i remember jmc wearing the spankled gowns dmc wore on t cover of talk of the town.... your expertise is flawless however, thanks for sharing.

[supremester]

I love those red dresses on Touch sessions - did they ever work in them or just use for the shoot? , despise the Raggedy ann things. They look good in this pic but they were hideous on TV and on ebay.
I can't believe I never noticed the red pantsuits on Dick Clark - they look great on all 3. I agree with Dick - Mary was WAYYYY to hammy - especially since it was Scherrie's song. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0WUseWNooo

Here's the GIT gowns on Mike Douglas in 1976 - you can't blame them for wearing these, they still look great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzbZbZ4oC5c [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0WUseWNooo)

And the rainbow gowns from DR&TS that worked great with JML

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpaMqDeU-0I

[bradsupremes]

I love those red dresses on Touch sessions - did they ever work in them or just use for the shoot?

They did wear them in performance, but not much. The necklines were altered to a U cut neckline. I think they looked better.

[captainjames]

These are referred to as the "Raggedy Ann" pant suits. These did not burn in the fire in Mexico.
8763

Oh GOD yes that is them !!!!
Sorry they were the only ones i do not think did justice to any of the girls lovely bodies.

[blackguy69]

My favorites were from their second appearance on flip Wilson the lavender dresses that were very form fitting. Even jean looked good in hers.

[blueskies]

These are referred to as the "Raggedy Ann" pant suits. These did not burn in the fire in Mexico.
8763
These outfits should have burned! Hideous! A hot mess. The girls look terrible in them and those shoes don't look much better. Clunky all the way around. This is the first time I've heard they had a" name".....Raggedy Ann. They're 'raggedy alright. I have a name for them.....but, I won't use it in polite company.

[captainjames]

yeah, sorry but Mary should have asked for her money back on these. They are almost like a bad imitation of the bat wings outfit.

[captainjames]

I'm not into the gown subject, and yet - I do have a question about them.

When the Supremes debuted on Sullivan, the show was in black and white. There is a popular colorized version of the show and it shows them in pink dresses. Were they actually pink or were they a different color?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXVE1VgRZjY

Diana was right on with this one they were blue. However, Mary was also somewhat correct about the gown because one was later made similar that was pink. The think is the one worn on the Ed Sullivan show was blue.

[sup_fan]

Bradsupremes - you bring up a great story and thanks for sharing. those "tent" things from the Touch session IMO are ghastly but hey, i've only seen 2 pics of them. maybe they're better than they appear. were there other gowns in the collection that you saw that were totally foreign to you?

guys i'm just passing on info here from a multitude of sources. i've tried to read as much as i can [[books, internet, etc) on the girls since i'm a huge fan. if i pass along something that was shared yet is incorrect, i apologize. there are sources out there [[Brad, Randy and others) that have been blessed to have such wonderful experiences with the girls and i thoroughly enjoy having them share this info. however unless you're contractually bound to not share information, why hold it back? if someone is incorrectly stating something, correct it. doesn't have to be adversarial or confrontational. yes, some people are loons and will take it the wrong way. just move on from them. but most of us fan are just hungry for as much info on the girls as we can get.

[supremester]

Well said - all info is good info...

[REDHOT]

supremester you always bash Mary Wilson,and its so funny,you act,or even say you're not bashing her,you can bash her all you want,no real Supreme fan care about all the negative things you say about Mary Wilson,because we know the truth,i just notice you can't stop saying negatives about her lmao

[supremester]

I didn't bash Mary at all. Nothing even close to that. What exactly are you referring to? What truth do you know? Mary DID refuse Syreeta and says so. The limos are available to everyone with access to a telephone. What's your point? LOL

There's LOTS I could write to "bash" Mary if I wanted to. Someone brought up the limo story, I simply put it in perspective. If you honestly believe that the reason they took taxis is because of Motown, then believe it. How many limos does Mary pay for now? Zero - just like before. If Diana Mary & Cindy didn't ask where all the money went - at least Jean Terrell did - and once they realized THEY paid for limos, they might have chosen a $4 taxi to a $60 Limo. Look it up, the info is out there. REAL Supremes fans know that, thanks to the internet and Youtube, not everything in Mary's books are true. If yu choose to believe it all - that's great - enjoy!



supremester you always bash Mary Wilson,and its so funny,you act,or even say you're not bashing her,you can bash her all you want,no real Supreme fan care about all the negative things you say about Mary Wilson,because we know the truth,i just notice you can't stop saying negatives about her lmao

[Lulu]

I know supremester - he does not "bash" Mary. In fact, he's spent more time with her and knows her on a closer level than anyone on this forum DESPITE what some may claim.

[blackguy69]

Can we have one discussion without ruffling anyone feathers.

[supremester]

This is true but I don't go there here cuz I love to hear others talk about their friendship - however, you know me but do I know you? Email me privately if you want me to know, otherwisdse, I'm cool with Lulu.


I know supremester - he does not "bash" Mary. In fact, he's spent more time with her and knows her on a closer level than anyone on this forum DESPITE what some may claim.

[REDHOT]

Supremester you are too funny, you and your friends, think you're foolin people here,you're not,this post is about Diana's last gown with The Supremes,and you have made it about,somthing that has nothing to do with Diana's last gown lmao

[supremester]

Oh, I'd know better than to try to fool YOU!

[bradsupremes]

Bradsupremes - you bring up a great story and thanks for sharing. those "tent" things from the Touch session IMO are ghastly but hey, i've only seen 2 pics of them. maybe they're better than they appear. were there other gowns in the collection that you saw that were totally foreign to you?

guys i'm just passing on info here from a multitude of sources. i've tried to read as much as i can [[books, internet, etc) on the girls since i'm a huge fan. if i pass along something that was shared yet is incorrect, i apologize. there are sources out there [[Brad, Randy and others) that have been blessed to have such wonderful experiences with the girls and i thoroughly enjoy having them share this info. however unless you're contractually bound to not share information, why hold it back? if someone is incorrectly stating something, correct it. doesn't have to be adversarial or confrontational. yes, some people are loons and will take it the wrong way. just move on from them. but most of us fan are just hungry for as much info on the girls as we can get.

I do think the red gowns from the Touch sessions look much better than what has been seen. I think they are far from the worst gowns they've worn. I actually like them. In fact, there is a set of gowns with the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History which toured as a part of their Apollo exhibit a few years ago that are, in my opinion, the worst set of gowns ever created for the group. They look like cotton balls glued on with big beaded bows, waistbands and cuffs. Mary has said Diana loved the gowns, but neither she or Cindy liked them. I think many will agree. Definitely un-Supreme. 8776

[Lulu]

I do think the red gowns from the Touch sessions look much better than what has been seen. I think they are far from the worst gowns they've worn. I actually like them. In fact, there is a set of gowns with the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History which toured as a part of their Apollo exhibit a few years ago that are, in my opinion, the worst set of gowns ever created for the group. They look like cotton balls glued on with big beaded bows, waistbands and cuffs. Mary has said Diana loved the gowns, but neither she or Cindy liked them. I think many will agree. Definitely un-Supreme. 8776

I rather like them and I can see why Diana would. They'd certainly work better on a more slight figure. Curves wouldn't really pull the whole look together well IMHO.

[blackguy69]

I do think the red gowns from the Touch sessions look much better than what has been seen. I think they are far from the worst gowns they've worn. I actually like them. In fact, there is a set of gowns with the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History which toured as a part of their Apollo exhibit a few years ago that are, in my opinion, the worst set of gowns ever created for the group. They look like cotton balls glued on with big beaded bows, waistbands and cuffs. Mary has said Diana loved the gowns, but neither she or Cindy liked them. I think many will agree. Definitely un-Supreme. 8776 i will say you cant miss that. very 60's twiggy meets Goldie Hawn?

[supremester]

Very interesting - VERY 1966/67.....I can see Miss Ross in one, but not the others. It sucks DR&TS account got charged for dresses that never in a million years would work on anyone but her. I think I've seen these before or a pic of her in one - maybe she wore it to a premiere or something. They were so mod that they were probably no longer in by the time they got shipped to Detroit. I'd be surprised if these were made for DMC, I'd bet they were DMF - anyone know?

[bradsupremes]

Very interesting - VERY 1966/67.....I can see Miss Ross in one, but not the others. It sucks DR&TS account got charged for dresses that never in a million years would work on anyone but her. I think I've seen these before or a pic of her in one - maybe she wore it to a premiere or something. They were so mod that they were probably no longer in by the time they got shipped to Detroit. I'd be surprised if these were made for DMC, I'd bet they were DMF - anyone know?

I was told they were made for DMC, but it's possible DMF.

[supremester]

Can you imagine Flo in these? LOL

[smark21]

....Poor Flo

[johnjeb]

I think the Dynamic Superiors inherited those yellow outfits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZH18LOeEvA

Some of The Supremes 70s on stage apparel weren't always on par with what was worn by DRATS 1967-1969, but I seem to recall many performers during the same period, male as well as female, wearing stylish and trendy outfits that were hideous. A lot of the 70s style clothing was ugly. I imagine they were stepping out from the tuxedo and gown mentality and trying other options with varying degrees of success.

I saw Tony Washington and the Dynamic Superiors three or four times in Boston, they always put on a great show. Wish he and they were still around and performing. RIP Tony.

[supremester]

I have never seen them before and Miss woman is fantastic! OMG - can you imagine how many hours he spent in the mirror with a hairbrush doing Miss Ross? Thank you so much for this - they great.

[LuvHangOva]

I have never seen them before and Miss woman is fantastic! OMG - can you imagine how many hours he spent in the mirror with a hairbrush doing Miss Ross? Thank you so much for this - they great.

Supremester, I agree and I think I am able to detect more than just "a hint of mint" in the presentation.

[sup_fan]

Bradsupremes - thanks! those are ghastly lolol. they've been posted online a few times, although some people have suggested they're not Sup gowns? i know you've done a lot of work with Mary and the wardrobes. so they are true Sup gowns? yeah what were they thinking!!

although i think the Raggedy Ann pantsuits are pretty awful, as are the Red Up the Ladder ones with jean's debut. and i thought the peach/tan color on those MJL gowns from Sonny and Cher [[with the pink and purple boas/boleros) are awful too. i think many of the chiffon DMF gowns with the empire waists made Flo look as big as a house. like in My Fav Things on Sullivan. and red sequin wrap dresses made for MSC looked cheap to me - like the fabric came off a sequin bolt at Jo Ann Fabrics lol

ok enough bitching about the bad :)

my favs of all time are the green swirls from TCB. didn't bother me 1 bit that they recycled them with each group. love em. and if i could squeeze in it, i'd have stolen the one from Hard Rock LOLOL

[bradsupremes]

Bradsupremes - thanks! those are ghastly lolol. they've been posted online a few times, although some people have suggested they're not Sup gowns? i know you've done a lot of work with Mary and the wardrobes. so they are true Sup gowns? yeah what were they thinking!!

Yes, they are true Supremes gowns. Mary donated them to the Smithsonian back in the 80's.

[sup_fan]

ok they do rank up there as among the most hideous lol. as we're assuming gowns like these, the red Touch session gowns, those floral MJL gowns from their LA debut, etc were only worn a few times, i wonder how many other short-lived gowns there were. a look Diana was trying and worn for a few shows. stuff that never made it to a photo shoot and only used a handful of times. then discarded

other than the Copa gowns we all know about