Today's The Day Scotland Votes Yay or Nay on Scotland's Independence

[soulster]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/18/world/europe/scotland-independence-vote/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I honestly hope the people vote to stay in the U.K.. I think it would be a disaster for that country to separate. There's no going back if they do.

There are big arguments on if they will get to keep the Pound. Westminster says no, Scotland says yes. There will be no British military to depend on, and there are a big list of risks, not to mention exposing the new country to invasion or terror. They will have to apply to NATO and the European union, and neither will cut them any slack. There is no written constitution to look for for guidelines on all of this, and a new independent nation will have to create its own.

Another part of the controversy is that 16-year-olds will vote too. Some believe that it will be the teenagers who will decide the country's fate.

At this point, NO ONE knows how it might go. People change their minds daily in polling.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/scotland-independence-vote/will-scotlands-independence-referendum-be-decided-teen-voters-n206006

I understand the argument for independence from the U.K., but it sounds like a bad idea at this point in time.

What do you all think?

[144man]

The Conservatives have only one Member of Parliament elected in Scotland. If they vote to leave the UK, England & Wales may never again have a Labour government.

The vote was restricted to Scots who are resident in Scotland. Any result affects me as a UK taxpayer, so I object to not having a vote on the matter. I also object to the fact that such a profound constitutional change will be decided by a simple majority.

[marv2]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/18/world/europe/scotland-independence-vote/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I honestly hope the people vote to stay in the U.K.. I think it would be a disaster for that country to separate. There's no going back if they do.

There are big arguments on if they will get to keep the Pound. Westminster says no, Scotland says yes. There will be no British military to depend on, and there are a big list of risks, not to mention exposing the new country to invasion or terror. They will have to apply to NATO and the European union, and neither will cut them any slack. There is no written constitution to look for for guidelines on all of this, and a new independent nation will have to create its own.

Another part of the controversy is that 16-year-olds will vote too. Some believe that it will be the teenagers who will decide the country's fate.

At this point, NO ONE knows how it might go. People change their minds daily in polling.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/scotland-independence-vote/will-scotlands-independence-referendum-be-decided-teen-voters-n206006

I understand the argument for independence from the U.K., but it sounds like a bad idea at this point in time.

What do you all think?


I remember back in 1995 when Quebec voted to seperate from Canada. That would have been a big disaster for both parties.

[skooldem1]

I don't know how anyone can be against people wanting "independence". The USA wouldn't even exist had people not wanted independence. It may be difficult ironing out everything in the beginning, but in time hopefully it would all work out for the people of Scotland. It is up to the people. Either they will vote yes or no. Whatever they vote, they will have to live with that decision. But that decision is their's to make.

[soulster]

It certainly is their decision to make, but I honestly don't think the nationalists have thought this thing through. It's a way more complicated world now than it was back when the U.S. broke from England.

So far, the three major cities haven't been counted yet, but, the vote right now is for no.

[144man]

The votes are all in and Scotland voted to stay in the UK by 55.3% to 44.7%.

England and Scotland have been unified since 1707. Since that time there has been free movement between the two countries, so much so that there is no ethnic difference between the populations of the South of Scotland and the North of England. We both share the same island. Only about 1% of adult Scots can speak Gaelic. Religious differences are of decreasing importance. To my mind, Scottish independence is just a historic fantasy based purely on geography, and much more than that is needed to achieve pure nationhood.

If Scotland had voted to break away, it would have been based purely on its remoteness from London and its dislike of right-wing government. A case could be made on those grounds for independence for Yorkshire. Also as nearly 70% of the Scottish Border area voted for staying in the Union, a movement would have arisen for redrawing the border.

Changes will nevertheless have to be made in the way that the UK is governed otherwise there will be demands for another referendum in the near future, and various promises have been made. However I find the prospect of how a devolved England might be governed extremely worrying.

In a previous thread I blamed Margaret Thatcher for sewing the seeds of everything that is wrong with the UK today. The growth in the vote of the Scottish Nationalist Party only became significant when she used Scotland as a guinea pig for the introduction of the hated Poll Tax.

[westgrandboulevard]

Hear, hear, 144man - or even " Och aye!"

I'm really not someone who keenly studies and comments on politics but, based on finance alone [[and the Scots have long been reputed to be canny with their money, even if they do often say it about themselves), the correct decision has been made - so I am in agreement with Soulster in his opening post.

What happens next will be down to finance. In any kind of relationship, whoever controls the finances, controls the relationship.

Many of the Scots who voted for 'Yes' were simply voting for change for the sake of change - mainly but not exclusively younger voters - but without fully thinking it through, or maybe not even fully understanding what the repercussions would likely be. I did vote for Margaret Thatcher, and I'm not entirely in agreement with 144man in saying 'everything that is wrong...', but she also did not always see the bigger picture in real terms - simply her own interpretation, based on her own personal values and ideals. She was decisive, but there is a downside to that, as with everything, and that is blinkered vision.

[soulster]

Both of you 144 and westgrandboulavard have made excellent points, and make perfect sense.

[splanky]

I have no idea what goes on in that part of the world but this whole thing has made me
especially curious. Independence has always sounded like a good thing to me and I'm surprised when people reject it. Still, I don't know the history and logistics of your guy's
countries. Probably too complicated for a simple explanation...I do feel bad for the 43 percent though. To smell a kind of freedom and never taste it has to be such a heartbreak...

[144man]

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own parliaments...That's more than England does.

[arr&bee]

Of course they voted to stay,the last thing the english want is a guy in kilts riding through scotland shouting[the british are coming]..

[roger]

Of course they voted to stay,the last thing the english want is a guy in kilts riding through scotland shouting[the british are coming]..

The Scots ARE British [[just as much as "The English") ... :)

Roger

[arr&bee]

I know roger,just messin with ya.

[roger]

I have no idea what goes on in that part of the world but this whole thing has made me
especially curious. Independence has always sounded like a good thing to me and I'm surprised when people reject it. Still, I don't know the history and logistics of your guy's
countries. Probably too complicated for a simple explanation...I do feel bad for the 43 percent though. To smell a kind of freedom and never taste it has to be such a heartbreak...

It is interesting that you link "Independence" with "Freedom" Splanky. If [[for example) California or Texas decided to become Independent of the U.S.A. would that make them "Free"??

As you say, the issues are probably too complicated for a simple explaination .. however I think that is true to say that 40 or 50 years ago the idea that Scotland might break away from the U.K. was so bizarre to most people in Scotland that it would be considered entire fantasy.

My worry about this is that in the last two weeks of the vote [[when the Pollsters indicated that The Scots might vote to break away from The U.K.) frantic "British" polititicans [[some of whom are themselves Scottish) made promises to get The Scots to stay in The U.K. that are undeliverable. :[[

Roger

[144man]

I agree completely with Roger, especially as the constitutional framework of the UK has been evolving into a federal structure. Is Splanky really advocating the breakup of the USA?

[splanky]

I agree completely with Roger, especially as the constitutional framework of the UK has been evolving into a federal structure. Is Splanky really advocating the breakup of the USA?

In some circles I've traveled in this country is refered to as "These Yet To Be United States"
and as someone who's seen Texas, Louisianna,Tennessee,Kentucky,Georgia,Virginia,bot h
North and South Carolina,California,Washington State and Washington DC,New Jersey,Maryland and now lives in New York I can tell you this country is already broken up:)...Anyway, I never really was too interested in learning all of the details of UK ethnic
relationships for a number of reasons...

[arr&bee]

Slanky,are you telling me that maryland has ceded from the union??now is it in the north or south cause i got some blue and grey uniforms for sale,cheap only 100,000%above factory invoice.

[soulster]

I've never been to Maryland, but, according to my sister and brother-in-law who lived there for two years, it is culturally a southern state.

[arr&bee]

I think i still have copy of[dixie]by the singin bunnyrabbits from 1974 with em dressed as conferderate rabbits.

[robb_k]

8554
If Moldava and Slovenia can exist as independent European nations, then Scotland could. Would that be better for Scottish residents in the near future? Probably not? Would it be better for them in the long run? Possibly, yes and possibly no. If Europe becomes significantly more unified, then, it might be better for Scottish residents to be free from control from London. If not, it might be better to receive more back than they are contributing to that larger state. It's difficult to know what will happen. But, it appears that the significant increase in integration into a European economic and legal system is happening VERY, VERY slowly, if at all, given that several nations refuse to join The Euro monetary system, and continue to have some local laws that don't reflect the general European Union laws.

[StuBass1]

I can almost understand Scotland not wanting their tax dollars going to support the radical Islamists that England has allowed to slip through the cracks through the years and are multiplying like rabbits...In the long run though, Scotland is better off staying with the Brits...Somebody has to be thrifty lol...