More new motown cd / download releases

[Philles/Motown Gary]

New Motown CD releases:

High Inergy - Turnin’ On [[Probably Expanded)

Stephanie Mills - For The First Time [[Expanded)
The Originals - Down To Love Town [[Expanded)
Lenny Williams - Rise Sleeping Beauty
Switch - Switch [[Probably Expanded)

Edwin Starr - Soul Master [[Available Sept. 16) [[Expanded)

Edwin Starr - Involved [[Available Sept. 16) [[Expanded)


New/RecentMotown downloads [[Never On CD before):
Smokey Robinson - Touch The Sky
Smokey Robinson - Essar
Smokey Robinson - Yes It’s You Lady
Smokey Robinson & The Miracles - A Pocket Full Of Miracles
Smokey Robinson & The Miracles - One Dozen Roses
Smokey Robinson & The Miracles - Flying High Together
Stevie Wonder - Live
Stevie Wonder - Live At The Talk Of The Town
Jose Feliciano - Jose Feliciano
Mandre - Mandre
Mandre - Mandre Two
Mandre - M3000
Rick James - Garden Of Love
Rick James - Bustin’ Out Of L Seven
　

[mike_sku]

I would purchase all of the Smokey releases noted above, but only if I could have them on a commercial CD. Downloading is for the birds. I like to have all the pertinent information in front of me while I am listening.

[soulster]

New/RecentMotown downloads [[Never On CD before):

Rick James - Garden Of Love
Rick James - Bustin’ Out Of L Seven
　

These have been issued on domestic Motown CDs before, and I have them to prove it. Harry Weinger produced "Garden Of Love" several years ago along with "Fire It Up". Bill Inglot did "Bustin' Out of L7" back in the mid-90s. In fact, the only Motown Rick James albums that might possibly never have never been issued on CD are "Glow" and "The Flag". And, since those two came out in the mid-90s, they probably did see the digital light.

But, if you didn't buy CDs back then, I guess you'll have to settle for the lossy download if you can't wait for the hi-rez HD Tracks versions.

[mysterysinger]

Not forgetting The Miracles "From The Beginning"...http://www.amazon.co.uk/Greatest-Hits-Beginning-Miracles/dp/B00MTWO79M/ref=sr_1_1?s=dmusic&ie=UTF8&qid=1409698124&sr=1-1&keywords=miracles+from+the+beginning

Stevie Wonder "Live" has been on CD....
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cookephotography/12932028155/in/set-72157619209619636

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To soulster: You're right -- I stand corrected. And, the more I think about it, Smokey Robinson's "Essar" may have appeared on CD as well -- many, many moons ago. [[Blame it on yet another senior moment here!) - Gary

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To mysterysinger: I'm curious -- When did Stevie Wonder's "Live" get released on CD? [[I'm referring to his 1970 album with the orange cover. Are we talking about the same album here?) - Gary

[Philles/Motown Gary]

For mike_su: I agree with you 100%, Mike. In fact, when it was announced that The Supremes’ "Funny Girl" would not be issued on CD, but, rather, only as a lesser-quality download, I protested loudly on The Second Disc’s bulletin board, as did several other disgruntled Motown fans who were equally upset. But, as fate would have it, I eventually broke down and purchased it for fear that I may not get another chance. And, you know, I’ve gotta admit, The Supremes' "Funny Girl" download sounds pretty damned impressive, as do all of Motown's other recent releases that I’ve been reluctantly purchasing. As far as the act of downloading goes, I know how to purchase each download from Amazon and that’s about it. Technically challenged, I have to employ the help of my neighbor/friend to download them and burn each title to CD on my PC for me [[and, even he, who is technically computer-literate, has trouble making it work at times.) Next, and this is where the real fun begins: I have to manually create a CD cover [[which is a 5" x 5" Text Box the same size as a CD jewel box) on my word processor for each downloaded CD title that I’ve purchased. After choosing the appropriate color for the Text Box border [[which will the overall color of the album cover), I type a track list for each one of the newly-purchased downloads along with a photo of each album cover. Then, after printing the CD covers and the corresponding album-cover photos, I have to cut them all out with scissors and use double-sided tape to fasten the album-cover picture to the corresponding CD cover with track list. Finally, after handwriting/labeling each newly-burnt CD with Artist's name and CD title, I insert each newly-created CD and matching cover into individual, clear, see-through, soft plastic CD view packs like DJ’s use to hold each of their CD’s. The final result is fairly attractive, but it makes for a hell of a lot of extra work. And, after all is said and done, there is still no booklet and no liner notes nor photos and graphics to enjoy. But, what can I say? To me, for Motown, it’s worth it. The ONLY improvement I’ve found is that, with downloads, Motown is able to release huge batches at a time compared to just a few CD’s titles per month. That alone almost makes up for it – almost! - Gary

[soulster]

To soulster: You're right -- I stand corrected. And, the more I think about it, Smokey Robinson's "Essar" may have appeared on CD as well -- many, many moons ago. [[Blame it on yet another senior moment here!) - Gary

In the late 80s, when MCA bought Motown, they went crazy reissuing Motown albums on CD. These were the CDs that had the cover artwork cheaply done with the white border around them. But, the mastering itself sounded very good, and was done by John Matousek. They probably only did one or two pressings of a lot of titles and are now rare as hen's teeth today. Rick James' "Come And Get It" was done during this era. Then, in the 90s, under Carey M. Mansfield, a few more albums were reissued with much better treatment in terms of packaging and sound. This was when "Bustin' Out Of L7" was done, plus all of the Marvin Gaye 70s titles, and lots of excellent-sounding comps, many of which are still regarded as the standard in sound quality by audiophiles. Then, Harry Weinger took over after that era.

[soulster]

For mike_su: I agree with you 100%, Mike. In fact, when it was announced that The Supremes’ "Funny Girl" would not be issued on CD, but, rather, only as a lesser-quality download, I protested loudly on The Second Disc’s bulletin board, as did several other disgruntled Motown fans who were equally upset. But, as fate would have it, I eventually broke down and purchased it for fear that I may not get another chance. And, you know, I’ve gotta admit, The Supremes' "Funny Girl" download sounds pretty damned impressive, as do all of Motown's other recent releases that I’ve been reluctantly purchasing. As far as the act of downloading goes, I know how to purchase each download from Amazon and that’s about it. Technically challenged, I have to employ the help of my neighbor/friend to download them and burn each title to CD on my PC for me [[and, even he, who is technically computer-literate, has trouble making it work at times.) Next, and this is where the real fun begins: I have to manually create a CD cover [[which is a 5" x 5" Text Box the same size as a CD jewel box) on my word processor for each downloaded CD title that I’ve purchased. After choosing the appropriate color for the Text Box border [[which will the overall color of the album cover), I type a track list for each one of the newly-purchased downloads along with a photo of each album cover. Then, after printing the CD covers and the corresponding album-cover photos, I have to cut them all out with scissors and use double-sided tape to fasten the album-cover picture to the corresponding CD cover with track list. Finally, after handwriting/labeling each newly-burnt CD with Artist's name and CD title, I insert each newly-created CD and matching cover into individual, clear, see-through, soft plastic CD view packs like DJ’s use to hold each of their CD’s. The final result is fairly attractive, but it makes for a hell of a lot of extra work. And, after all is said and done, there is still no booklet and no liner notes nor photos and graphics to enjoy. But, what can I say? To me, for Motown, it’s worth it. The ONLY improvement I’ve found is that, with downloads, Motown is able to release huge batches at a time compared to just a few CD’s titles per month. That alone almost makes up for it – almost! - Gary

Sorry to quote your entire post, but many people today, including myself, don't even bother to burn the CD-R anymore. We store the files on hard drives and play them back through a server. I know that is a lot for you to grasp as you are still playing Cds in the player. And, for the car, we just load them up on a USB flash drive or put them on our smartphones and plug them into the car stereo. It's a changed world, that's for sure! Even today, when I buy a CD, I don't play it in a CD player anymore. I rip it to the computer, add artwork, liner notes, and everything else I want, and embed them into the files. Then, I store it on the hard drive. I have literally hundreds of blank CD-R that rarely ever get used since I changed it up seven years ago.

What I used to do is buy the blank CD-Rs with the printable labels. I would use record labels provided on a Smugmug gallery. I would provide the password but I can't seem to find it. I have over 1200 labels backed up on my computer, anyway, as I did a bunch of them myself. But, here is a sample of one I did a decade ago. Not a Motown title, but it's a nice one:
8428

What I did was clean the original text off the scanned label with Photoshop, then added my custom text with CD label software that came with my Epson printer. With the $75 printer I bought at Target, I can print the label directly to the CD-R without having to use paper. I've done hundreds of these, mostly for things I transferred from vinyl. But, like I said, I no longer play CDs. I just rip 'em and play the files.

I totally agree about liner notes. I miss them. This is the other motivation, besides better sound quality, for buying the CD or vinyl. BTW, I hate iTunes. I avoid it when possible.

[mysterysinger]

To mysterysinger: I'm curious -- When did Stevie Wonder's "Live" get released on CD? [[I'm referring to his 1970 album with the orange cover. Are we talking about the same album here?) - Gary

Yeah the CD was released in 2010 and has the orange cover [[and is a mini-LP to boot). Click the link to see. It is readily available on Ebay and Amazon.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cookephotography/12932132223/in/photolist-kGL2qF-dXPFYw-7VtBVE-kGLymX-kGLz8M-kGL3oT-kGN6rm-kGL3Bi-kE8xaX-kEaHJ7-kE8zUz-kE8xAM-kEaGQU-kEaJxm-kE917R-kEaHYA-kE949c-kEaJpq-kEaGvq-8RWzby-8zELqW-8LVkGz-fxPHRG

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To mysterysinger: By golly, you're right! [[Sorry I missed your enclosed link before.) I had no idea that Stevie Wonder's "Live" had been released on CD in Japan back in 2010. I love those mini-LP CD's in the reproduced cardboard album covers. They're expensive, but they sound superior and they're worth every penny. Everybody should have at least one in their Motown collection! - Gary

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To soulster: Sure, I remember that era well! I got into CD’s in 1987. In fact, my very first CD was a Motown release – Diana Ross & The Supremes’ "Never-Before-Released Masters" which was to be available on CD only – not vinyl. Shocked and disappointed, I thought to myself, "Well, I’ll just buy this ONE title to get The Supremes’ previously-unreleased tracks, and I’ll play it on a friend’s CD player." Yeah, right! The next thing I knew, I discovered that Motown had released a TON of those 2-fers all at once. I felt like a kid at Christmas! Well, as I’m sure you’ve guessed, within no time at all, I had purchased nearly all of those 2-fers. [[I still have them too, along with the newer, improved, more-recently-remastered CD versions of each one.) Motown had me right where they wanted me, as usual. I was quickly converted to a CD collector and the rest is history. I sold my entire 1,600 LP collection which was FULL of 1960's-1970's Motown titles, including those very early, obscure titles like the Ralph Sharon LP on Gordy and the Gospel All Stars LP on Tamla [[which is another story in itself).


All in all, I remember well the names you mentioned in your post – John Matousek, Carey Mansfield, and, of course, Harry Weinger. And let’s not forget Jay Lasker, who was once head of Motown. Do you remember the article in Billboard magazine where Jay asked the Motown fans to write and let him know what Motown tracks we would like to see included on the upcoming "Hard-To-Find Motown [[Vol. 3) CD? I requested Eddie Holland’s "Just Ain’t Enough Love" as well as Eddie's final Motown single, "Candy To Me". Jay came through with both for me!


Without doubt, Harry’s group has done the most to satisfy the Motown fans thanks to Hip-oselect/Motown Select and all the previously-unreleased Motown tracks that we’ve benefitted from, including, and especially, the entire "Complete Motown Singles" boxed-set series. That alone is a miracle!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To soulster:　If your comment about downloads being too "hard for me to grasp" weren’t so true, I might take it as an insult! HaHa! But you’re right! I’m not really familiar with the current technology [[other that knowing that it exists), and, to tell you the truth, I don’t want to be. I already made an expensive conversion from vinyl to CD’s for Motown, and, unless I have absolutely no other choice, I’m not gonna change again. I can’t afford to. Besides, I don't want to go backwards. I like listening to my music CD’s on a sound system that sounds powerful – not on a tinny little SmartPhone speaker with the sound quality of a mid-1960's pocket-transistor radio! That’s why I’ll buy the Motown downloads if I have to, and then burn ‘em to CD where I can enjoy them through headphones on my home-stereo-quality equipment. But, hey, if you’re happy listening to your downloads anywhere while on-the-go and on any type of equipment, more power to you.


I must say, your program with the Smugmug record labels reproduced the Westbound label beautifully. [[I’ve always loved Denise LaSalle and The Detroit Emeralds!) My HP TouchSmart desktop PC has a built-in feature that will reproduce CD/Record labels as well, but I never got around to figuring out how to use it. [[Again, technically-challenged here!)
- Gary

[soulster]

To soulster: Sure, I remember that era well! I got into CD’s in 1987.

I got into CD in late 1984. My first Motown CDs, purchased in 1985, were Compact Command Performance CDs by Al Green, The Jackson Five, and Diana Ross & The Supremes. The Al Green CD sounded terrible. But, the next DRATS CD I bought was a mono singles comp[[!). That worked for me until the 1895 double best of Anthology CD came out. I was stoked when the Hitsville USA CD box came out, and I got it for the cassette box price because the store goofed in pricing it.



All in all, I remember well the names you mentioned in your post – John Matousek, Carey Mansfield, and, of course, Harry Weinger.You don't recall Bill Inglot? He mastered the two Hitsville boxes, and a whole lot of other Motown sets with Rhino. He also did a lot of Atlantic sets.


And let’s not forget Jay Lasker, who was once head of Motown. Do you remember the article in Billboard magazine where Jay asked the Motown fans to write and let him know what Motown tracks we would like to see included on the upcoming "Hard-To-Find Motown [[Vol. 3) CD? I requested Eddie Holland’s "Just Ain’t Enough Love" as well as Eddie's final Motown single, "Candy To Me". Jay came through with both for me!

I vaguely recall that.


Without doubt, Harry’s group has done the most to satisfy the Motown fans thanks to Hip-oselect/Motown Select and all the previously-unreleased Motown tracks that we’ve benefitted from, including, and especially, the entire "Complete Motown Singles" boxed-set series. That alone is a miracle!



The problem with record labels is that once they get a good reissue program going, and the titles they are coming out with are great, they change regimes, dismiss most or all of the producers and engineers, and the program gst scuttled. As an audiophile, my favorite era for Motown reissues was the 90s, hands down. For material, the HW era, without a doubt. And, for his credit, he has overseen the longest time of stability for the label in the CD age.

[soulster]

To soulster:　If your comment about downloads being too "hard for me to grasp" weren’t so true, I might take it as an insult! HaHa! But you’re right! I’m not really familiar with the current technology [[other that knowing that it exists), and, to tell you the truth, I don’t want to be. I already made an expensive conversion from vinyl to CD’s for Motown, and, unless I have absolutely no other choice, I’m not gonna change again. I can’t afford to. Besides, I don't want to go backwards.Well, don't consider it as changing, consider it as expanding your format options. When I went to files, all I did was add a couple of hard drives and ripped my CDs to them. It was a one-time task, but i'm so glad I did it. They also serve as a backup in case anything should happen to my CDs and records. See, I have my computer hooked up to my stereo and/or server. Then, I just use a free jukebox software called Foobar. I'm sure you heard of it somewhere. And, I play it all through my big stereo system and it sounds exactly like the original CDs because it is. Anything I want to listen to in my huge collection, I can call up in mere seconds. If I am away from home, I can still pull up anything in my collection on another computer or my cellphone.

The Price? All it takes is the price of a couple of $80 external Western Digital hard drives


I like listening to my music CD’s on a sound system that sounds powerful – not on a tinny little SmartPhone speaker with the sound quality of a mid-1960's pocket-transistor radio! That’s why I’ll buy the Motown downloads if I have to, and then burn ‘em to CD where I can enjoy them through headphones on my home-stereo-quality equipment. But, hey, if you’re happy listening to your downloads anywhere while on-the-go and on any type of equipment, more power to you.

Again, I listen to all my files on the big stereo, as my computer is connected to it with RCA and/or digital coaxial cable. In the bedroom, I have a laptop hooked up to self-powered studio speakers. Or, I listen to the big sound in the car through the USB. I could never listen on tinny phone speakers. I see people doing that and I cringe.



I must say, your program with the Smugmug record labels reproduced the Westbound label beautifully. A guy in L.A. did one, but I did another. I'll tell you that it took a LOT of time and tedious work with Photoshop's stamp tool to remove the original text. Oh yeah, here's the website [[http://recordlabels.smugmug.com/Photography). The password is "labels" [[no quotation marks). Many are very big files, at least 1200 pixels. That's good for print quality. I have no doubt that some of the record companies have used some of them on their CDs. The quality is that good on many of them!


[[I’ve always loved Denise LaSalle and The Detroit Emeralds!) My HP TouchSmart desktop PC has a built-in feature that will reproduce CD/Record labels as well, but I never got around to figuring out how to use it. [[Again, technically-challenged here!)
- Gary

Just read the instructions! My Epson comes with a CD tray that you feed into it. All the printer does is print the label that you prepare inside the CD template. If you want to do something, you will learn it.

[soulster]

Here's a screenshot of my simple Foobar layout:

8431

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To soulster: I hear ya. What you said and, especially, what you've shown [[Foobar layout and CD label maker) is most impressive. But, you see, the difference between you and me is that you obviously love all of that technical gadgetry whereas I, personally, hate it! I'm too old for all that. I don't have the time, patience, nor the desire to have to get out a manual every time I want to do something musically, and I don't want to have to rely upon a computer in order to enjoy my music. Just give me some great music [[Philles, Motown, Dance, or even some classical vocal music, etc.) on a powerful, independent music system with three buttons -- OFF / PLAY / and LOUD -- and I'll be happy as a pig in poop!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To soulster: Oh, God, yes, those early Motown 2-fers -- some sounded pretty great at the time, but a few were horrendous. It was either "More Hits By The Supremes" or "The Supremes Sing H-D-H" whereby one or two of the songs had a botched-up intro. Whoever mastered it started the remastering process before the master tape had come up to full speed. I was shocked that it had gotten past quality control in such a state.

I, too, bought the Al Green Motown-released CDs, but they were his album CD's, not his Compact Command Performances [[Greatest Hits) CD. They sounded fine to me at the time, but I remember feeling frustrated and pissed to think that Motown was reissuing Hi Records' product when so many of Motown's own product was screaming for release. I have to wonder how -- and, particularly, WHY -- Motown obtained the right's to Al Green's material to start with? It never made sense.

[soulster]

But, you see, the difference between you and me is that you obviously love all of that technical gadgetry whereas I, personally, hate it! I'm too old for all that. You can't be much older than me. It's easy. Just connect your computer to the input of your receiver, open up foobar in the computer, open up an album, and hit play. That's all I have to do. No manual required.

[soulster]

To soulster: Oh, God, yes, those early Motown 2-fers -- some sounded pretty great at the time, but a few were horrendous.

I'm not even talking about those questionable two-fers. I only bought four of dive of those, and not only did they not sound good, but, for some albums, they actually edited a track to make two albums fit on one CD. That's why MCA went back and reissued the albums on individual CDs in the late 80s.


I, too, bought the Al Green Motown-released CDs, but they were his album CD's, not his Compact Command Performances [[Greatest Hits) CD. They sounded fine to me at the time, but I remember feeling frustrated and pissed to think that Motown was reissuing Hi Records' product when so many of Motown's own product was screaming for release.

Remember that Motown had gotten the Al Green catalog at that point. They no longer have the rights to it today, but for a brief period in the 80s, they had it. Motown reissued his greatest hits on vinyl in either the late 70s or early 80s. The good thing about that is it was the first time the extended version of "Let's Stay Together" had been released to my knowledge.


I have to wonder how -- and, particularly, WHY -- Motown obtained the right's to Al Green's material to start with? It never made sense.

Well, it happened, but, like I said, it didn't last long, and EMI gained the rights later.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To soulster: I'm 63. And you?

[soulster]

To soulster: I'm 63. And you? Almost 52. I have a sister older than you who was all into technology. My mother was too. I know plenty of computer experts at your age.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Hey soulster! Almost 52, eh? Well, early Happy Birthday to ya! Your family and friends were obviously very technically inclined. Most of my family members lived out in the country [[not the sticks, but small-town America) and they were farmers -- not at all technically gifted. I'm afraid I took after them. [[I wasn't a farmer, though. While they were out plowing the fields and bailing hey, I was playing drums or I was busy racing into town to buy the latest Philles or Motown record that I had just heard on the radio! Thus, the curse of being musically gifted but technically challenged!

[soulster]

Hey soulster! Almost 52, eh? Well, early Happy Birthday to ya! Your family and friends were obviously very technically inclined. Most of my family members lived out in the country [[not the sticks, but small-town America) and they were farmers -- not at all technically gifted. I'm afraid I took after them. [[I wasn't a farmer, though. While they were out plowing the fields and bailing hey, I was playing drums or I was busy racing into town to buy the latest Philles or Motown record that I had just heard on the radio! Thus, the curse of being musically gifted but technically challenged!

I come from a family of geeks and we're all from small-town America too. I don't know if i'm technically gifted, but I don't understand the brains of those who aren't. What I don't understand is socializing. No one in my family, save one sister, are good at that.

I also happen to be a drummer. We have that in common!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Hey Soulster, are you in the eastern, central, or western U.S.? I live in the southeastern U.S., but I was born and raised – and lived most of my life – in the Finger Lakes area of western New York state [[about 45 miles southeast of Rochester, NY). That’s how I was able to see Diana Ross’ June 18 performance in Canandaigua, NY, as I was there visiting family at the time.


You think you’re not sociable? You’re kiddin’! We’ve been chattin’ up a storm talking about 1960's and '70s Motown, and sharing our "opposing" views on music CD’s vs. computer downloads with no problem whatsoever. In fact, I’m enjoying it a lot!


Don’t waste your time trying to understand minds with no grasp for things technical. Just be glad that, in this day and age, you’re competent and can keep up with the changing technologies. Besides, what some of us lack in technical savvy, we hopefully make up for in other ways.


You’re a drummer, too, eh? Cool! I haven’t played a drum since I graduated from high school back in 1969. The school used to let me keep their set of Ludwig trap drums at my home until I graduated, at which time I had to give ‘em back. As I’m sure you know, it’s something you never lose. Once a drummer, always a drummer. To this day, I’m constantly pounding out Motown snare beats, bongo beats, or timbale beats on my lap. It’s something that becomes a permanent part of us. Hey, Motown had the coolest tambourine arrangements, didn’t they! I think the hottest tambourine on a Motown recording was a tie between The Marvelettes’ "Too Many Fish In The Sea" and Kim Weston’s "Take Me In Your Arms [[Rock Me A Little While). The tambourine parts were so pronounced that the grooves on each of those 45's turned white and literally spiraled across the playing area of the record! Now THAT’s HOT!

[soulster]

Hey Soulster, are you in the eastern, central, or western U.S.? I live in the southeastern U.S.,


I'm in the southwest, and came here from the midwest.


You think you’re not sociable? You’re kiddin’! We’ve been chattin’ up a storm talking about 1960's and '70s Motown, and sharing our "opposing" views on music CD’s vs. computer downloads with no problem whatsoever. In fact, I’m enjoying it a lot!

I mean in person. I do fine behind a keyboard, or if the person i'm interacting with has similar interests. Otherwise, I don't understand how people connect in person. I'm not anti-social, but the game is just a big hassle.


Don’t waste your time trying to understand minds with no grasp for things technical. Just be glad that, in this day and age, you’re competent and can keep up with the changing technologies. Besides, what some of us lack in technical savvy, we hopefully make up for in other ways.

I understand human behavior from observation and analysis. I'm just not one of them social types.


You’re a drummer, too, eh? Cool! I haven’t played a drum since I graduated from high school back in 1969. The school used to let me keep their set of Ludwig trap drums at my home until I graduated, at which time I had to give ‘em back. As I’m sure you know, it’s something you never lose. Once a drummer, always a drummer. To this day, I’m constantly pounding out Motown snare beats, bongo beats, or timbale beats on my lap. It’s something that becomes a permanent part of us.

I played drums all through school.I had a little R&B band after high school, but really haven't played since, either. But, I got on a trap set at a Best Buy guitar center a couple of years ago, and I don't know if it was the drums, that I was nervous because people were around, or if i'm just very rusty. I was in a moderately isolated room, but, still...


I think the hottest tambourine on a Motown recording was a tie between The Marvelettes’ "Too Many Fish In The Sea" and Kim Weston’s "Take Me In Your Arms [[Rock Me A Little While). The tambourine parts were so pronounced that the grooves on each of those 45's turned white and literally spiraled across the playing area of the record! Now THAT’s HOT!

Those records were cut hot!

I love the tambourine, and wish the sound of them were louder in current pop records. Dr. Luke used the sound of them in Katy Perry's "Teenage Dream" and "California Gurls", and Kesha's "Take It Off". But, there are so many 60s and 70s songs that make great use of the tambourine that I can't even list them all! There's on song that uses them in a not constant pattern that keeps the recording interesting, but I can't think of it right now. What did just come to mind is how they come into the song "Old Days" by Chicago. I wait for that moment.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Soulster, I suddenly feel like we're dominating the public Motown site with our personal conversation. You wanna go private? If you know how to do it, I'm game. It would be great if we could swap email addressss. What do ya think? - Gary

[motown01]

Great to finally see these Miracles albums in a digital format - now if we could just get The Four Tops - Now, and most of Jr. Walker's albums releases for download!

[mysterysinger]

I'll second that, but I'd much rather have them all on CD. Plus The Originals "Naturally Together" and "Definitions". But why did Hip-O finish the Miracles album CD set with the early releases - they could get at least another box set out of their albums.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To motown01: Yes! I was beginning to think that the Miracles' three final Motown albums and Smokey's three final solo albums would never see the light of day past their vinyl debut. But, at long last, they have! Although they're merely downloads, I bought all of them, and they sound great burnt to CD!

The Four Tops "Now" came out on CD years ago. I'm still waiting for The Four Tops "On Broadway" to get a post-vinyl release. It was never one of my favorite Motown albums at the time, but I still feel a need to have it in my Motown CD collection -- even if I have to burn it to CD myself from a download. Now that I'm nearly 50 years older, I think I would appreciate that album a lot more now than I did then. Heaven knows, the Tops' jazz-like four-part harmonies were something else!

And Junior Walker -- YES! We still need "A Gassssss!", "Rainbow Funk", "Moody Junior" [[The Andantes' back-up vocals were HOT on that album!); "I'm So Glad", and a few of his later album titles.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To mysterysinger: YES! The Originals' "Naturally Together" and "Definitions" AND "Games People Play" along with "Communique".

To top it all off, a CD or download release of "Communique" should also include a bonus track of The Original's final Soul/Motown single, "There's A Chance When You Love You'll Lose". Do you remember that single? It was released in 1973 [[we JUST MISSED IT on the final installment of the "Complete Motown Singles - 1972)", and it was among The Originals' finest moments with Motown. It was a gorgeous ballad [[possibly produced by Johnny Bristol or Clay McMurray, and the string arrangement was by Paul Riser, I think.) All I can say is that it was one of Motown's classiest tracks ever released, and it deserved to be a huge hit. Unfortunately, it got lost in the shuffle of Motown's move to California and, to my knowledge, went nowhere on the charts -- a real shame.

[carole cucumber]

http://hitparade.ch/song/The-Originals/There's-A-Chance-When-You-Love-You'll-Lose-1000938 on single: Arranged by David Van DePittehttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0860246/

[calvin]

For our European forum members, I'd like to point out that these download-only titles are available in cd audio quality [[16 bit / 44.1 kHz) from Qobuz.

Many of the older cd releases are also available as lossless downloads from Qobuz, both cds from the 1990s and the Hip-O releases, and this could be a good alternative to buying an expensive used copy. I bought The Temptations' "Solid Rock" from them as a lossless download for about 9 Euros - that was the one cd I was missing and used copies of it are quite expensive.

You won't get the liner notes with the downloads but at least you don't sacrifice any audio quality, as you do with mp3 and other lossy downloads.

When I get a new cd, I immediately rip it to flac with EAC and then add the cover artwork. Then the cd goes onto my shelves and in many cases I never pull it out again. So I'm not bothered about not having the liner notes in many cases. And those 90s releases didn't have any liner notes to speak of, just a list of the tracks. If I saw a used copy of "Solid Rock" for £5 tomorrow, I wouldn't even bother - as far as I'm concerned I already have it now.

In some other cases, though, the liner notes [[etc) do add significant value to the set. For example, the books that come with The Complete Motown Singles are a great reference. It would be terrific if Universal could provide these in a digital format with the download. Do they? I don't know [[I have these on cd already) but I doubt it. I was missing one Hip-O title, the 3-cd Rare Earth set, "Fill Your Head". I bought it as a lossless download from Qobuz - the price was fine, to me better than paying up for a used copy, but there were no digital liner notes.

Note that Mary Wells "Recorded Live On Stage" is another title which recently made its digital debut as a download. It is also available from Qobuz.

I'm still waiting for The Supremes "Funny Girl" to be made available.

As for the remaining albums from Smokey Robinson & The Miracles and Smokey Robinson [[solo), I think we were very unlikely to ever see those as cd releases, at least not from Universal. The Smokey Robinson Solo Albums series from Hip-O was stopped due to poor sales. I suspec t that the "Depend On Me" set from The Miracles was also not a hot seller, as it was limited but was readily available on Amazon UK at a low price for a long time. So while I would have preferred expanded editions from Universal, I'm very happy to finally have these albums in cd-quality audio.

So yes, keep 'em coming! Jr. Walker & The All Stars, the remaining albums from The Originals, and let's not forget The Four Tops on ABC Dunhill!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To carole cucumber: I haven't seen nor heard The Originals' "There's A Chance When You Love You'll Lose" since 1987 when I got rid of my entire LP and 45 collection in favor of CDs. I guess it's only fitting that, after all this time, I would get both the producer AND arranger credits wrong! David Van DePitte doesn't surprise me at all. His musical arrangements were every bit as elegant and impressive as Paul Riser's. And this record is elegant! Thanks for setting the record straight.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To mysterysinger: I agree. I've been waiting for Part 2 of The Miracles complete Motown albums on CD, too. Hip-oSelect/Motown Select reached a certain point and just stopped. All releases came to a sudden, grinding halt with no explanation as to why. I may be wrong, but for now, I've kissed the idea of The Miracles Complete Albums [[Vol. 2) goodbye. I would love to be proven wrong, though!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To calvin: I went into Quobuz to check out their downloads, as you recommended. It was in a foreign language, but, just for the heck of it, I typed in The Temptations "Wings Of Love" album [[for which I've been patiently waiting to get on CD or, at this point, a download.) Lo and behold, they had it -- complete with a photo of the album cover! When I went into the American/English version of Quobuz, however, it said that "Wings Of Love" is not an available title. Damn! Ain't that a royal kick in the butt! It's our music, yet we Americans can't get it!

[soulster]

To calvin: I went into Quobuz to check out their downloads, as you recommended. It was in a foreign language, but, just for the heck of it, I typed in The Temptations "Wings Of Love" album [[for which I've been patiently waiting to get on CD or, at this point, a download.) Lo and behold, they had it -- complete with a photo of the album cover! When I went into the American/English version of Quobuz, however, it said that "Wings Of Love" is not an available title. Damn! Ain't that a royal kick in the butt! It's our music, yet we Americans can't get it!

My rant applies to the U.S., and concerns the domestic major labels, who control the vast majority of the R&B music. We do have companies like Funky Town Grooves now, and they seem to be doing pretty good right now, but notice how small the runs are, and for what limited time they are available? If you wait, they will be gone forever. One could say that's true for all CD product, but i'm seeing pop/rock product from most labels in two or three runs, and almost abundantly available everywhere.

Blame why we yanks can't get Quboz downloads on the U.S. copyright laws and licensing, and that none of the U.S. vendors want to sell CD quality downloads. They could if they wanted. The labels would probably provide them if they were requested, but they aren't. Since the biggest vendor with all the clout is, unfortunately Apple computer, iTunes pretty much dictates the standard, and they would rather do the "Made For iTunes" crap rather than even just up the bit-rate.

I keep harping on it, but the only way U.S. residents can legally buy high-quality downloads is to go to HD Tracks, or one of the other hi-rez websites. The problem there is that the labels dictate what they will release, and they haven't released much Motown besides Stevie Wonder, marvin gaye, Michael Jackson, Commodores, and Rick James. In other words, they release the R&B music that the rock crowd likes.

I've said it before, and i'll say it again: if R&B music lovers want CD or hi-rez quality downloads, tell the record labels what you want, that you're willing to buy them, and BUY the R&B music that's already out there. The record labels don't go by requests, they go by what sells. This is the way it works. And, if you all want CDs, you're going to have to buy what's provided to show them that there is a viable market.

"Funny Girl", or whatever, didn't get issued on CD. A lot of you are unhappy about that. OK, why isn't it on CD? Well, the dedicated Ross fans will buy them, but the labels want a guaranteed sale of something like 500,000 units before they go through the trouble of pressing up the CDs, artwork, cases, and marketing them. Then, they have to be distributed, and the retailers only want to sell hot new contemporary albums by Maroon 5, Iggy Azalea, Luke Bryan, or New Direction. And, there just aren't that many Ross fans who will buy the CD. Oh, and where are they going to sell all those copies? A lot of R&B fans won't buy CDs off of Amazon. They want to walk into Best Buy or Target and buy them. This is why the overseas labels and Canada have to import the CDs into the U.S.. And, you pretty much have to buy them online, too.

Bottom line, if R&B fans don't buy more R&B CDs, the labels won't make them. They'll just let iTunes, Amazon, or 7-Digital sell lossy versions with no artwork or liner notes, and the technically challenged will have to get their family and friends to help them burn them on to CD-Rs, which are not stable for the long term. And, don't leave your CD-Rs in the car.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Hey soulster: Watch that crack about the "technically challenged"! You're steppin' on toes here, don't 'cha know! [[Ha!) Seriously, I, personally, have spent a fortune on R&B CD's over the years including right up to the present -- especially classic Motown. And I know that other Motown fans have done so as well because certain Motown Select titles have actually sold out. If there is a problem, it's not because of we fans aren't doing our part. A lot of what you said makes sense, but you're preachin' to the choir here. Most of us have already supported Motown and Motown Select to the best of our financial ability. If it isn't enough, then the problem apparently lies within Motown itself. So, in response to your suggestion that we need to buy more in order to keep product coming, we can't if they don't put it out. [[A vicious cycle, perhaps?) - Gary

[calvin]

To calvin: I went into Quobuz to check out their downloads, as you recommended. It was in a foreign language, but, just for the heck of it, I typed in The Temptations "Wings Of Love" album [[for which I've been patiently waiting to get on CD or, at this point, a download.) Lo and behold, they had it -- complete with a photo of the album cover! When I went into the American/English version of Quobuz, however, it said that "Wings Of Love" is not an available title. Damn! Ain't that a royal kick in the butt! It's our music, yet we Americans can't get it!

Hi Gary. The English-language version of the Qobuz downloads site is brand new, 3 weeks ago it was only in French [[and I did buy the "Wings of Love" 16-bit/44.1 kHz download). But I'm in the UK, I'm afraid that Qobuz doesn't have permission from the music companies to sell to customers in the US. Qobuz sells to customers in Austria, Switzerland, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, the UK, and Ireland.

Regarding your posts with soulster above, I would also recommend that you rip your cds to a lossless format. What if you find that one [[or more) of your favourite cds is damaged or stolen, and that cd is difficult and/or expensive to replace? Also aluminium oxidizes and your cds won't last forever [[though as far as I know, mine are still all ok, including the few I bought back in the 1980s). If you have them backed up you can always just burn yourself a copy if necessary and the audio will be the same.

I started by myself and did some reading on the internet before deciding to use EAC [[Exact Audio Copy) to rip to lossless flac. I chose Mp3tag as a tag editor and, like soulster, I went with foobar2000. I won't claim that any of these are the best available [[I don't know as I haven't tried many others and it depends on what you want to do as a user), they're just the ones I chose and I was happy enough with them that I've never looked to change.

You don't have to be technically talented to use these [[but to create them, yes). These kinds of things might seem a bit daunting at first but keep in mind that they all have many advanced features that aren't absolutely necessary - you need to learn how to set them up and do the basics, then you can play around with more advanced features later if you care to. The hardest part for me was getting started with EAC - I did it myself, finding what I needed by googling and finding websites and chat forums that walk you through the set up. But if you can find a friend who already knows how to use this it will be easier [[I've helped a couple of friends here get started with EAC).

My original intention was to back up my cd collection, but I quickly found that it is so much easier and I have so much more flexibility playing the files, that I just stopped playing the cds.

[calvin]

Speaking of Qobuz, I just read that they are going into a kind of bankruptcy protection. Looks like I'm saying goodbye to lossless downloads soon. http://soulfuldetroit.com/images/smilies/frown.png

http://www.audiostream.com/content/qobuz-enters-equivalent-chapter-11-protection

http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/qobuz-files-for-bankruptcy-equivalent-protection-in-france/

And according to the second article, they had plans to open in the US soon. What a shame.

Well, at least I managed to get a bunch of good titles in the past few months. Hope I can still get a few more...

[longtimefan]

<< "...but the labels want a guaranteed sale of something like 500,000 units before they go through the trouble of pressing up the CDs, artwork, cases, and marketing them.">>

I have always wondered how many units neded to be made for a CD to be released. So, issues like those Japanese releases [["Partners," as example) and HipO CDs were in the realm of one half million? Wow.

[soulster]

Seriously, I, personally, have spent a fortune on R&B CD's over the years including right up to the present -- especially classic Motown. And I know that other Motown fans have done so as well because certain Motown Select titles have actually sold out. If there is a problem, it's not because of we fans aren't doing our part. A lot of what you said makes sense, but you're preachin' to the choir here. Most of us have already supported Motown and Motown Select to the best of our financial ability. If it isn't enough, then the problem apparently lies within Motown itself. So, in response to your suggestion that we need to buy more in order to keep product coming, we can't if they don't put it out. [[A vicious cycle, perhaps?) - Gary


That's what it is, Gary, a vicious cycle, and a somewhat self-fulfilling prophecy. But, while we R&B fans are trying to do our part, there just apparently aren't enough of us doing it. Years ago, many R&B fans would not even buy CDs. They held on to their vinyl. Some did it because they felt the sound was superior. Some resisted CDs because they weren't up on the technology, and others resisted because they just didn't have the money, or had other priorities. Whatever the case, it hurt the chances of all that R&B in digital form. And, a lot depended on the label in question. Some put out one or two popular titles, and some didn't seem to care. Some R&B fans now embrace downloads because of the convenience of taking the music with them, but they are largely younger ones, and are probably less likely to buy the old stuff from the 60s and 70s because they just weren't around back then.

I struggle to pay my bills these days, but I would buy more if the mastering wasn't so questionable. bbr isn't a domestic label in the U.S., but they have really stepped up to the plate for reissuing that the majors [[usually Sony) won't. But, the reason I won't buy them is because they jack the bass and use mastering compression. I don't want hyped-up sound. I can do that myself! And, there are other people who think like me. So, they do a disservice to their bottom line when they jack up the sound like that. I once emailed the original mastering engineer who was doing the bbr releases early on, and he says he is even disappointed by the direction the company decided to go.

[soulster]

<< "...but the labels want a guaranteed sale of something like 500,000 units before they go through the trouble of pressing up the CDs, artwork, cases, and marketing them.">>

I have always wondered how many units neded to be made for a CD to be released. So, issues like those Japanese releases [["Partners," as example) and HipO CDs were in the realm of one half million? Wow.
It makes you realize why certain titles got released and others didn't.

I don't know what the quota was for Hio-O or Select, but a lot of their titles were a;most exclusively available only through web-order. Once in a while, i'd find some titles in an indie store, but usually, one usually had to go to someplace like Amazon.

U.S. domestic indie reissue labels are finding it harder and harder to reissue product because of the demands the major labels who hold the rights. They are the ones who want a guarantee an X number of units sold before they grant a license. There are ways the indie label can work around the cost by having the licensee press the CDs, distribute them, and by the indie using a certain number of the licensee's tracks. The licensee can even request a percentage of investment of the indie label with certain perks/options. The other problem is that if the major thinks there is a real sales potential for a title or artists, they can refuse to grant a license and reserve the right to reissue the material themselves. And, they have even more red tape to break through.

Other situations may be that the major may authorize the reissue on vinyl, but not CD, or something like it.

The fans, producers, artists, and engineers are looking at the music, but the executives are looking at the numbers. They don't care if it's rock, R&B, country, jazz, or polka. They just care about what's going to make the shareholders happy.

Let's not even get into the content of any CD release! That's a whole nother headache!

So, it is easier and cheaper to put up a download, but it's the consumer who gets hosed.

The Japanese seem to be able to release what they want because of laws.

[soulster]

Also aluminium oxidizes and your cds won't last forever [[though as far as I know, mine are still all ok, including the few I bought back in the 1980s).

They can only oxidize if they are exposed to oxygen. A well-made manufactured CD should not have any problems playing indefinitely. CD-R is a different story. They work because "pits" are burned into a chemical dye. The pits can be deformed, rendering the CD-R permanently unplayable. This is also why I said not to leave them in the car! Ultraviolet light from the sun, and heat, will ruin them. A hard drive is much more stable in the long term, and the data stands a much better chance of being retrieved in case of a failure.


If you have them backed up you can always just burn yourself a copy if necessary and the audio will be the same.

This is what I do. Consider your ripped music on a hard drive the master files. The CD-R is merely the copy.


You don't have to be technically talented to use these [[but to create them, yes). These kinds of things might seem a bit daunting at first but keep in mind that they all have many advanced features that aren't absolutely necessary - you need to learn how to set them up and do the basics, then you can play around with more advanced features later if you care to. The hardest part for me was getting started with EAC - I did it myself, finding what I needed by googling and finding websites and chat forums that walk you through the set up. But if you can find a friend who already knows how to use this it will be easier [[I've helped a couple of friends here get started with EAC).

I rarely use EAC, preferring to use dbpoweramp, which is also free, and uses Accuraterip data. It's easier to use and requires almost no set-up or tweaking. If you need a feature, it is on-demand, which means it will automatically download and install what you need itself, unless it's a feature that requires a license.


My original intention was to back up my cd collection, but I quickly found that it is so much easier and I have so much more flexibility playing the files, that I just stopped playing the cds.

Exactly! I boxed up my CDs. I never have to touch them! And, I never want to hear about age. There are people in their 60s doing the same things we are doing.

[Motown4Ever518]

Hey Soulster, are you in the eastern, central, or western U.S.? I live in the southeastern U.S., but I was born and raised – and lived most of my life – in the Finger Lakes area of western New York state [[about 45 miles southeast of Rochester, NY). That’s how I was able to see Diana Ross’ June 18 performance in Canandaigua, NY, as I was there visiting family at the time.


You think you’re not sociable? You’re kiddin’! We’ve been chattin’ up a storm talking about 1960's and '70s Motown, and sharing our "opposing" views on music CD’s vs. computer downloads with no problem whatsoever. In fact, I’m enjoying it a lot!


Don’t waste your time trying to understand minds with no grasp for things technical. Just be glad that, in this day and age, you’re competent and can keep up with the changing technologies. Besides, what some of us lack in technical savvy, we hopefully make up for in other ways.


You’re a drummer, too, eh? Cool! I haven’t played a drum since I graduated from high school back in 1969. The school used to let me keep their set of Ludwig trap drums at my home until I graduated, at which time I had to give ‘em back. As I’m sure you know, it’s something you never lose. Once a drummer, always a drummer. To this day, I’m constantly pounding out Motown snare beats, bongo beats, or timbale beats on my lap. It’s something that becomes a permanent part of us. Hey, Motown had the coolest tambourine arrangements, didn’t they! I think the hottest tambourine on a Motown recording was a tie between The Marvelettes’ "Too Many Fish In The Sea" and Kim Weston’s "Take Me In Your Arms [[Rock Me A Little While). The tambourine parts were so pronounced that the grooves on each of those 45's turned white and literally spiraled across the playing area of the record! Now THAT’s HOT!


Phillies/Motown Gary,

Welcome to the forum. As information, I am a Drummer as well. Still playing in Church, and a couple times a year, in a Jazz Combo. I grew up in the City of Brotherly Love, and currently live in the other side of the state in the Albany area. I have been pinning for the completion of the Smokey Robinson sets with and without the Miracles since both of the series came to a screeching halt. If it must be on downloads, then downloads it must be. A least I know that I can reach out to my fellow percussion pals for assistance in the transfer to discs.

[calvin]

They can only oxidize if they are exposed to oxygen. A well-made manufactured CD should not have any problems playing indefinitely.

Longevity of audio cds is not well understood, though the Library of Congress in the US has been researching this issue since they began building a collection.

Some early cds from certain factories were not properly sealed at the edges and the discs oxidized [[due to exposure to air) very quickly - I think that problem was eliminated by the early 1990s. If you had one of those cds, it would have completely failed long ago. Of course those cds were clearly not well manufactured.

There are other, much slower [[and not well understood) ways that the aluminium could become corroded, or perhaps the polycarbonate layer changes. The manufacturers themselves don't fully understand these processes, but their goal is not longevity anyway - they want to mass produce a product cheaply that will last long enough to avoid problems for themselves. If one of your audio cds fails after 40 years you might think it was not well manufactured but I'm sure that the manufacturer would argue otherwise.

[[Note - oxidation is an increase in the oxidation state, which can happen in reactions which do not involve oxygen at all. But the aluminium is in contact with a polycarbonate layer, and polycarbonates have oxygen atoms.)

The Library of Congress can't give a simple answer regarding audio cd longevity. The production methods and materials vary by manufacturer and are changing over time, and they see that some discs last longer than others depending on these factors. They're now trying to identify which cds have a shorter/longer expected lifespan.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/the-library-of-congress-wants-to-destroy-your-old-cds-for-science/370804/

That article mentions accelerated aging studies, which may or may not realistically represent how the disc would actually age. But, not mentioned in this article, the Library of Congress also does "tracking tests", where they simply leave the disc under normal conditions and check it periodically. Recent results were that 4% of cds had a data error after 10 years which was not present at the start. That's a small percent, and those discs still played [[and you probably wouldn't hear these errors) but it does show that something is changing.

The only really accurate way to determine audio cd longevity is to wait and see. But I'm going into way too much detail, there are other risks such as theft or damage during use [[especially if one is playing them all the time, as opposed to simply storing them). And we agree that people who really care about their cds should back them up and preserve them on hard drives.

[soulster]

Longevity of audio cds is not well understood, though the Library of Congress in the US has been researching this issue since they began building a collection.

Some early cds from certain factories were not properly sealed at the edges and the discs oxidized very quickly - I think that problem was eliminated by the early 1990s. If you had one of those cds, it would have completely failed long ago. Of course those cds were clearly not well manufactured.

There are other, much slower [[and not well understood) ways that the aluminium layer can become corroded. The manufacturers themselves don't understand these processes, but their goal is not longevity anyway - they want to mass produce a product cheaply that will last long enough to avoid problems for themselves. If one of your audio cds fails after 40 years you might think it was not well manufactured but I'm sure that the manufacturer would argue otherwise.

The Library of Congress can't give a simple answer regarding audio cd longevity. The production methods and materials vary by manufacturer and are changing over time, and they see that some discs last longer than others depending on these factors. They're now trying to identify which cds have a shorter/longer expected lifespan.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/the-library-of-congress-wants-to-destroy-your-old-cds-for-science/370804/

That article mentions accelerated aging studies, which may or may not realistically represent how the disc would actually age. But, not mentioned in this article, the Library of Congress also does "tracking tests", where they simply leave the disc under normal conditions and check it periodically. Recent results were that 4% of cds had a data error after 10 years which was not present at the start. That's a small percent, and those discs still played [[and you probably wouldn't hear these errors) but it does show that something is changing.

The only really accurate way to determine audio cd longevity is to wait and see. But I'm going into way too much detail, there are other risks such as theft or damage during use [[especially if one is playing them all the time, as opposed to simply storing them). And we agree that people who really care about their cds should back them up and preserve them on hard drives.
I have CDs that were bought in 1984. They are in perfect shape today, and play fine. Even the ones I have that were made by Nimbus in 1986 [[the ones afflicted with "CD rot") have no issues today. There are some who live in areas with high humidity who have complained of it, but, I thankfully live in a dry climate. Under most conditions, provided the CD is properly manufactured, theres no reason it shouldn't last forever.

Oh, the CD was intended to be permanent.

[calvin]

I have CDs that were bought in 1984. They are in perfect shape today, and play fine. Even the ones I have that were made by Nimbus in 1986 [[the ones afflicted with "CD rot") have no issues today. There are some who live in areas with high humidity who have complained of it, but, I thankfully live in a dry climate. Under most conditions, provided the CD is properly manufactured, theres no reason it shouldn't last forever.

Oh, the CD was intended to be permanent.

As I wrote, I also have cds from the 1980s which I ripped a few years back and got "accurate rips". They are fine, and that's great. Audio cds should last for several decades.

No, cds were never intended to be "permanent". Questions regarding cd longevity have been discussed since its introduction. Gold cds were introduced because gold corrodes much slower than aluminium, so those cds are expected to last much longer. But gold is, of course, much more expensive than aluminium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Compact_Disc

Some manufacturers of normal [[aluminium) audio cds claim that their products might last 100 or even 200 years [[which is less than forever). But this is just a claim, you can't really know without testing, which is what the Library of Congress has been doing. And those doing the testing believe those claims are far too optimistic.

And by the way, you may have missed an edit [[an addition) I made to my post above:

[[Note - oxidation is an increase in the oxidation state, which can happen in reactions which do not involve oxygen at all. But the aluminium is in contact with a polycarbonate layer, and polycarbonates have oxygen atoms.)

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To calvin: Bummer, for sure. Say, when you bought The Temptations' "Wings Of Love" download from Qobuz, did you by any chance also get The Tempts' "Back To Basics" as well? That's another Motown album that I've been hoping to see show up on CD or at least as a download. - Gary

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To soulster and calvin: Since getting into CDs back in 1987, I've only had one CD go bad. It happened in the 1990's, and it was the Rhino Records release of the Phil Spector/Philles Christmas Album. The CD had played fine until one day, out of the blue, when it developed the equivalent of vinyl surface noise. The music played and tracked okay but it sounded like a scratchy record. I ditched in and bought a new copy, never to have another problem with it again.

The only cosmetic problem I've had with my CDs was caused by the old-style vinyl view packs that I started using when I was a mobile D.J. back in 1997. The view packs were thicker than they are now, and they stunk like a new shower curtain. After a few years, they somehow ate away at the ink on the label side of a few CD's. Only a very few. They looked like hell but they still played fine. I ended up ditching the CD's and replaced them with new copies. I'm still using the old view packs, though, as well as the newer, thinner, improved models which are much easier on the CDs.

As far as blank CD's, I had been using TDK's, which were supposedly the best on the market. They always worked great for me...er, that is, until TDK got the not-so-bright-notion to start manufacturing them in Turkey where production was supposedly cheaper, or so I read. From them on, the once-dependable TDK blank discs were now full of defective skips. Imagine spending hours compiling the perfect Various-Artist Motown CD, only to discover half-way through playback that the blank disc was defective, which then meant having to start all over from scratch. Let's just say that I was not a happy camper. Because of that, I rarely ever use my CD recorders any more. I simply don't have the patience to play the bum-disc game.

Other than that, the only problem I've had with blank, home-made CD's was unintentionally self-inflicted. Before using a soft, permanent-ink Sharpie to label a CD by hand with the Artist Name and CD Title, I have to draw light pencil lines across the CD in order to keep my writing straight and even. Otherwise, the Artist Name and CD Title will look like a roller coaster track going up and down. A few times I had accidentally pressed down a bit too hard with the pencil line which, after a couple of plays, ate through the disc into the data, thus ruining my hard work. Again, not a happy camper here!

Overall, I'm very pleased with the life-span of my commercial CD's and my home-made CD's. And, soulster, this is especially for you -- some of my home-made CD's, which I made a few years ago for a friend, have been carelessly left in his car CD player throughout the duration of a very cold winter [[yes, even in the South!) and a VERY hot, scorching summer or two. To this day, those discs still play fine. But you're right, soulster, CD's can supposedly be played over and over without damage to the sound, or so we were taught. Based on my personal experience, they were right. - Gary

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To Motown4Ever518: Thanks! It's nice to meet you. I've only been on the Motown Forum site for a short time, but I'm loving it!

Listen, as far as making download transfers to CD, I'd like to help you, but I'm not in a position where I can do it now. As it is, I have to employ [[yes, HIRE!) my neighbor/"friend" to do that for me on my PC for my own download-to-CD transfers. We usually burn a few at a time [[as I buy them) which takes the better part of an evening, and which usually leaves me a nervous wreck [[for various reasons). And I can only do it when he's available, which isn't all that often. So, hopefully you can understand that it isn't feasible for me at this time. Maybe you could ask around for another volunteer?

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To soulster: Well said, Buddy -- a vicious cycle. And join the club in struggling to pay bills. [[You haven't lived until you've had to buy Insulin out of your own pocket!) But that's another story.

I know exactly what you mean regarding the jacked-up bass on some of those BBR discs. I listen to my CD's using my Sony CD Walkman which came out about 6 years ago along with my Sony Studio Monitor over-the-ear headphones. You wouldn't believe the combination! People hear it and say, "My God! It sounds like a home stereo!", which it does. It's loud and powerful -- perfect for cranking Phil Spector and Motown! The headphones go down to 5 Hz or something like that. The bass is deep and powerful, which sounds fantastic on most CDs. But, lately, some of the BBR discs are so over-bassy it's annoying as all hell. And, I love bass, so for me to say there's too much bass, you know it's gotta be bad. I play my music cranked really loud, so after a while, my ears adjust to the over-bassiness. But, at first, it seems so senseless, unless they're trying to make the music sound beefier for those listening to it through their SmartPhone transistor-radio speakers. Who knows? Still, in all, bless BBR's heart for making these rare Motown titles available. Take care and talk soon! - Gary

[calvin]

To calvin: Say, when you bought The Temptations' "Wings Of Love" download from Qobuz, did you by any chance also get The Tempts' "Back To Basics" as well? That's another Motown album that I've been hoping to see show up on CD or at least as a download. - Gary

No, and I don't find "Back to Basics" on their website. I was recommending Qobuz as an alternative because they offer lossless downloads, not because they have a better selection of Motown titles. They don't - if Qobuz offers a Motown title, I think you can bet that Itunes, Amazon, Google Play, etc also offer the same title in the UK. I see that Google Play and Amazon both offer "Wings Of Love" in the UK, for example.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To calvin: Can we buy music downloads from Amazon UK?

[calvin]

To calvin: Can we buy music downloads from Amazon UK?

From the US, I would expect Amazon UK will block you from completing a download purchase of "Wings Of Love".

You write "we" - you do know that I live in the UK, right? Or perhaps by "we" you mean you and other forum members in the US.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

To calvin: I meant we Americans, including you. I didn't realize that you were from the UK. Or, if I did, I had forgotten. - Gary

[calvin]

To calvin: I meant we Americans, including you. I didn't realize that you were from the UK. Or, if I did, I had forgotten. - Gary

Gary, I'm both American and British. I was born and grew up in Michigan, not far from Detroit. But I live in London now.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Calvin, oh I see. Cool! Were you living near Detroit during Motown's 1960's heyday?
- Gary

[calvin]

Gary, I was born during Motown's heyday. The earliest Motown song I remember hearing on the radio when new was "Just My Imagination". My two oldest brothers had a lot of Motown singles in our house - especially from the Supremes and Martha & The Vandellas.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Calvin, so your memories of Motown began about the time they packed up and moved to California. Too bad you weren't born just a few years earlier. You would have been right in the middle of it all!! - Gary

[soulster]

To soulster and calvin: Since getting into CDs back in 1987, I've only had one CD go bad. It happened in the 1990's, and it was the Rhino Records release of the Phil Spector/Philles Christmas Album. The CD had played fine until one day, out of the blue, when it developed the equivalent of vinyl surface noise. The music played and tracked okay but it sounded like a scratchy record. I ditched in and bought a new copy, never to have another problem with it again.

Out of the 5000+ CDs I have, not a single one has ever gone bad on me. I also keep them in the original CD cases. Now, i've had some major problems ripping some of the ones made by WEA that were manufactured in the 90s. In most cases, it turned out to be the burner. Fortunately, when I ripped my CD collection seven years back, I had two burners installed in my computer.


The only cosmetic problem I've had with my CDs was caused by the old-style vinyl view packs that I started using when I was a mobile D.J. back in 1997. The view packs were thicker than they are now, and they stunk like a new shower curtain. After a few years, they somehow ate away at the ink on the label side of a few CD's. Only a very few. They looked like hell but they still played fine. I ended up ditching the CD's and replaced them with new copies. I'm still using the old view packs, though, as well as the newer, thinner, improved models which are much easier on the CDs.

That's one of the reasons I resisted ditching the jewel boxes. I do put the existing CD-Rs in those Lase-Logic-type binders and have had no problems. I stopped being a DJ in the late 80s. Whew!


As far as blank CD's, I had been using TDK's, which were supposedly the best on the market. They always worked great for me...er, that is, until TDK got the not-so-bright-notion to start manufacturing them in Turkey where production was supposedly cheaper, or so I read. From them on, the once-dependable TDK blank discs were now full of defective skips.

Those TDK blanks haven't been the same since about the year 2000. They used to use Mitsubishi's Azo dye, which had a bluish tint. Back then, I used several brands, from TDK, to Fuji, to Sony, among others. I found, at the time, Mitsui and Kodak to be the best. But, as I learned as I went on, it was just as much about the burner, the burn speed, and the burn quality too. Except for the premium brands like Mitsui and Kodak, it didn't matter what brand you use. It's all a crapshoot. I've had professional Quantum discs go bad on me, too, ones with irreplaceable music on them. Obviously, I use the computer with software to make my CD-Rs.


Imagine spending hours compiling the perfect Various-Artist Motown CD, only to discover half-way through playback that the blank disc was defective, which then meant having to start all over from scratch. Let's just say that I was not a happy camper. Because of that, I rarely ever use my CD recorders any more. I simply don't have the patience to play the bum-disc game.

THis is why I like using the computer as opposed to a standalone burner. You can get your entire CD contents mastered in the computer before you burn the actual disc. If anything ever goes wrong, you can just burn another one. If there is a problem with one of the songs, you can go in and fix it, insert it into the existing program, and burn a new disc. With just archiving the files, you can go back at anytime and tweak something.


Other than that, the only problem I've had with blank, home-made CD's was unintentionally self-inflicted. Before using a soft, permanent-ink Sharpie to label a CD by hand with the Artist Name and CD Title, I have to draw light pencil lines across the CD in order to keep my writing straight and even. Otherwise, the Artist Name and CD Title will look like a roller coaster track going up and down. A few times I had accidentally pressed down a bit too hard with the pencil line which, after a couple of plays, ate through the disc into the data, thus ruining my hard work. Again, not a happy camper here!

If you must write on a CD-R, writs on the center spindle area, or anywhere at the edge of the parameter opposite of where there is no data written on the play side. THose neato paper labels I used back in the late 90s were part of the problem. They could render your CD-R unplayable in a matter of months. That's why I started printing the artwork right on the printable CD-Rs, if I need to. Again, you can only do this in the computer. If you use a professional burner, you can use these blanks too.


Overall, I'm very pleased with the life-span of my commercial CD's and my home-made CD's. And, soulster, this is especially for you -- some of my home-made CD's, which I made a few years ago for a friend, have been carelessly left in his car CD player throughout the duration of a very cold winter [[yes, even in the South!) and a VERY hot, scorching summer or two.

The difference is if you leave them in sunlight. That will kill the CD-R. Cold is OK, as long as you keep them out of sunlight.

I dig talking about this stuff. At least this applies to the topic of downloads.

[soulster]

Gary, I was born during Motown's heyday. The earliest Motown song I remember hearing on the radio when new was "Just My Imagination". My two oldest brothers had a lot of Motown singles in our house - especially from the Supremes and Martha & The Vandellas.

I was born just in time to remember those 45s when they came out the first time. My first Motown memory is "You've Really Got A Hold On Me" by The Miracles. Next it was "Come See About Me" by The Supremes, "My Guy" by Mary Wells, "Baby Don't You Do It" by Marvin Gaye, and "My Girl" by The Temptations. I heard them all on the original 45s.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Soulster, so you were a D.J., too, eh? That’s another thing we have [[had) in common. Back in 1998, the powers-that-be were threatening layoffs at the college I worked at, and my boss highly recommended that we find back-up jobs, just in case. I decided to start my own mobile disc jockey service. I invested in [[went in debt for) a $12,000 D.J. system that was powerful and impressive as all get out. [[It would fill a room of 300-400 people, the dealer said.) I bought a new trailer to keep the D.J. equipment in, and I traded my Honda Civic in for a new Honda CRV which was powerful enough to haul my equipment and my 5,000 CDs at the time. [[I’ve got about 7,000 now.) I D.J.’d some outdoor parties for free for our neighbors on the lake which led to D.J.-ing Dean Witter’s [[investment firm) annual Christmas party at a swanky local country club. They were so impressed with my music and my sound system that they offered me the job of D.J.-ing their next year’s Christmas party! Thrilled as can be at getting my foot in the door of what could have become a very prosperous opportunity, we were gonna sign the contracts a month later in January. Unfortunately, that never happened. Driving home from work one day in early January, 1998, a woman failed to yield the right of way and totaled my new CRV. Worse, she managed to kill my right ankle bone which was ground into dust from the impact of the crash. Although I was laid up for six months and unable to sign the new contract at the time, Dean Witter still wanted me, and I had every intention of going through with my plans of DJ-ing their 1999 Christmas party. As luck would have it, however, on December 7, 1999, I underwent my third surgery on my ankle which they ended up fusing. The fusion did more harm than good. I was laid up for another six months and, when recovered, no longer had the balance nor the strength required to lug around that huge, heavy equipment. Such was the end of my mobile D.J.. experience. But, man, I loved playing my favorite tunes at the various parties and watching the dancers’ reactions! 1960's AND 1970's Motown, as always, was a guaranteed floor filler. Everybody loves Motown music, and rightfully so.

Like you, I, too, love talking about this stuff. Were you a mobile D.J. or did you have a stationary position? I can certainly understand how having your music on downloads and a computer would make your D.J.-ing a lot easier compared to lugging around a ton of heavy CD’s, but, sound quality-wise, I'm pretty sure I would have stuck with CD's.

[mysterysinger]

As an aside Gary, many Philles [[and other Spector) albums are available on mini-LP CD release. I'm sure you got the Philles Album Collection? However, "A Christmas Gift For You" is available on mini-LP as are the albums by The Righteous Brothers, Ike & Tina Turner and the A&M release on The Checkmates [[I haven't yet got the latter 2 on mini-LP though).

Check out some pics here. Will add more when I get chance including the many compilations and releases on Leonard Cohen, Darlene Love and Starsailor etc.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cookephotography/sets/72157638780981186/

[soulster]

Soulster, so you were a D.J., too, eh? That’s another thing we have [[had) in common. Back in 1998, the powers-that-be were threatening layoffs at the college I worked at, and my boss highly recommended that we find back-up jobs, just in case. I decided to start my own mobile disc jockey service. I invested in [[went in debt for) a $12,000 D.J. system that was powerful and impressive as all get out. [[It would fill a room of 300-400 people, the dealer said.) I bought a new trailer to keep the D.J. equipment in, and I traded my Honda Civic in for a new Honda CRV which was powerful enough to haul my equipment and my 5,000 CDs at the time. [[I’ve got about 7,000 now.) I D.J.’d some outdoor parties for free for our neighbors on the lake which led to D.J.-ing Dean Witter’s [[investment firm) annual Christmas party at a swanky local country club. They were so impressed with my music and my sound system that they offered me the job of D.J.-ing their next year’s Christmas party! Thrilled as can be at getting my foot in the door of what could have become a very prosperous opportunity, we were gonna sign the contracts a month later in January. Unfortunately, that never happened. Driving home from work one day in early January, 1998, a woman failed to yield the right of way and totaled my new CRV. Worse, she managed to kill my right ankle bone which was ground into dust from the impact of the crash. Although I was laid up for six months and unable to sign the new contract at the time, Dean Witter still wanted me, and I had every intention of going through with my plans of DJ-ing their 1999 Christmas party. As luck would have it, however, on December 7, 1999, I underwent my third surgery on my ankle which they ended up fusing. The fusion did more harm than good. I was laid up for another six months and, when recovered, no longer had the balance nor the strength required to lug around that huge, heavy equipment. Such was the end of my mobile D.J.. experience. But, man, I loved playing my favorite tunes at the various parties and watching the dancers’ reactions! 1960's AND 1970's Motown, as always, was a guaranteed floor filler. Everybody loves Motown music, and rightfully so.

Damn. Ain't no words for that.


Like you, I, too, love talking about this stuff. Were you a mobile D.J. or did you have a stationary position? I can certainly understand how having your music on downloads and a computer would make your D.J.-ing a lot easier compared to lugging around a ton of heavy CD’s, but, sound quality-wise, I'm pretty sure I would have stuck with CD's.



I was a mobile DJ, but I didn't stick with it long. It was right around the time when X-rated hip-hop started getting popular and I didn't like having to play it around children. Rap is something to kick back and listen to at home or in the car, or around adults, not kids. So, I bailed. Besides, I already had a day job that paid more.

They didn't have affordable home computers back then. You had to carry CDs and records around. Today, everything you need is on a laptop. But, remember, you don't have to settle for mp3s. FLAC has the exact same sound quality as CDs.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Thanks, mysterysinger. I already have everything that you pictured and showed above on Near Mint vinyl and CD. In fact, I have the Philles Christmas LP and CD on every label it was ever reissued on, including the original release on Philles. On vinyl, I've got all three versions of "A Christmas Gift For You From Philles Records": The original 1963 Blue/Black PR label; the 1964 Yellow/Red PR label; and the Promo White/Black PR label [[super-rare). Obsessive, right? Probably so, but, as a kid, Philles was my very first favorite record label. Those Phil Spector productions on The Crystals, The Ronettes, and Darlene Love were powerful and exciting! They still give me goosebumps today, as does Motown, which was waiting right around the corner for me in 1964 starting with Mary Wells' "My Guy". We were so lucky to have lived through that era when the songs had melodies that you could actually sing, real instruments were used, the production and musical arrangements were exciting, and the singers could really SING! I wish we could go back. - Gary

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Thanks, Calvin. - Gary

[mysterysinger]

Reminder of releases and coming up.