The other "N" word

[soulster]

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2014/08/09/nr-whitfield-police-report-dark-negro.cnn&video_referrer=

My question is this: When did the term "negro" become offensive?

There are those of us of a certain generation who grew up with the term. It's on our birth certificates. A respected institution uses the word: "The United negro College Fund". Sure, it could be said that is is one degree away from the "n" word, or that it is a mispronunciation of the spanish word "negro", meaning the color "black". Some say the word fell out of favor in the mid-60s as a word that was designated for Blacks by Whites.

And, what about "colored"? I don't see the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People changing their name any time soon.

My sister and I used to lightly insult each other by calling each other "negro", but the 20-something at my workplace will have none of that, but he doesn't mind using the "N" word. And, how many of us Black people chastise old White people for calling us "coloreds"?

The accepted term is now "African-American", but some, like me, still prefer "Black", as some older people prefer "Negro".

Getting back to the other "N" word. What's the deal, here?

[jillfoster]

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2014/08/09/nr-whitfield-police-report-dark-negro.cnn&video_referrer=

My question is this: When did the term "negro" become offensive?

There are those of us of a certain generation who grew up with the term. It's on our birth certificates. A respected institution uses the word: "The United negro College Fund". Sure, it could be said that is is one degree away from the "n" word, or that it is a mispronunciation of the spanish word "negro", meaning the color "black". Some say the word fell out of favor in the mid-60s as a word that was designated for Blacks by Whites.

And, what about "colored"? I don't see the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People changing their name any time soon.

My sister and I used to lightly insult each other by calling each other "negro", but the 20-something at my workplace will have none of that, but he doesn't mind using the "N" word. And, how many of us Black people chastise old White people for calling us "coloreds"?

The accepted term is now "African-American", but some, like me, still prefer "Black", as some older people prefer "Negro".

Getting back to the other "N" word. What's the deal, here?

"African American" is totally ridiculous. Whoopi Goldberg says she don't like it either, she says when you "hyphenate" her, it's like your'e tryin to tell her she's not 100 percent american. Black to me is what has always been the standard, short, sweet, one syllable and all inclusive. Ain't no damn body can tell by looking at someone whether they really are "african american" or actual africans. Actually, I'm told that Africans get offended when people call them "African american". Black people come from all over, Jamaica, Dominicans, even Europe and England, Maxine Nightingale sure ain't no "african american".

[Jerry Oz]

They're just words. I'm cool with African-American, because it's as good as anything. There are a lot of Africans that don't want to be called that because they are very prejudiced and they don't associate with Blacks/Negros/People of Color. By the way, in Africa, they don't recognize brown-skinned Americans as being "Black", either. Those people can kiss my ass, to be honest. I'm also cool with Black, but I'm not black. I'm brown, so WTF?

Negro is no worse than anything, it's just old school. "Lift Every Voice And Sing" was once called "The Negro National Anthem" and nobody had a problem with it. That was back in the days when I stood up when the song was played, which most Black/Negro/People of Color don't seem to do these days.

Regardless of whether they come from Jamaica, Dominican Republic, the West Indies, or Brazil, their ancestors probably got there in the guts of a slave ship, so the "African" designation can be applied to their black asses, as well.

The funny thing about it is, there's nothing really that describes us. Black/Negro/People of Color in America are about as mixed up as you can get. Most of us have white genes and a good portion of us have other races, as well. I'm 1/8th Cherokee, myself. It kills me when I hear people describe themselves as "bi-racial". Hell, B/N/PoC, I got that beat, so stop acting like you're better than somebody.

[thomas96]

How about "people"? Why can't everyone just be a human being? No labels.

[144man]

That's difficult because people post here from all over the world and there might be differences in what is acceptable from country to country. As far as I know "Negro" isn't an offensive term in the UK. UK census forms use the term "Black" in their ethnicity sections.

[splanky]

In their efforts to protect minorities sometimes organisations make things worse to me.
Then the media adds to the confusion...Sillyness is the order of the day. Negro is not
really as offensive as it is archaic in this time. I prefer black but I know my parents and their
peers used Negro and sometimes colored and I think it's stupid of people to not realise
that terminology always has and will change with time. I love Whoopi Goldberg as I do
Oprah, they both do a lot of great things for people but each can be wrong at times so I
take any of their expressed ideas with a grain of salt when neccessary. Whoopi rejects
African American but she remains delusional about n***er with her explaination that it
always means somthing different when black people use it. Ha! When that guy in the street
is standing over his victum holding his gun in the air yelling "What now,N*GG*R?!" between
firing rounds into his back, it means the exact same thing. Or maybe Whoopi would think
he's expressing his love for his brother with a term of endearment....Still I think people have the right to refer to themselves as they please and I let them. How they do lets me
know what to expect of them...

[soulster]

How about "people"? Why can't everyone just be a human being? No labels. Many people believe that if you remove the labels, you remove their cultural identity, and that is an even bigger insult.

Like Jerry, I have a diverse makeup, but I also agree 100% with what Splanky believes. Culturally, I am American with no hyphen, and it drives people crazy that I don't "act" Black. I joke around about it, but it also invites a lot of insults like "Oh, you're different,", "I don't think of you as Black.", "You're intelligent/articulate"., or, "You're not like the rest of 'em!.".

A funny thing is that some people think i'm of Latin descent, and get angry when I don't understand Spanish. I I've had my genealogy traced and have some Spanish or Portuguese in my family line, with some Cherokee, and German or Irish, yet the strongest is of the Ashanti tribe, all consistent with a typical Black American. Turns out I have cousins in England who have blond hair and blue eyes.

Jerry, I like the term bi-racial, if only because it counters that racist "one drop" rule that too many Americans, both White and Black, still adhere to.

[skooldem1]

African American" is totally ridiculous.

Just curious, are you black?

[detmotownguy]

Soulster, I enjoyed your comments. I am a white guy who had my genetic testing done and learned that this white guy ain't so white! Unbeknownst to many of us, we are closely related. Point is that we all come into life that same way and go out the same way. Unfortunately, we often shoebox and stereotype based on ethnicity. We are all individuals and should be treated as such. Great posting.

[soulster]

Soulster, I enjoyed your comments. I am a white guy who had my genetic testing done and learned that this white guy ain't so white! Unbeknownst to many of us, we are closely related. Point is that we all come into life that same way and go out the same way. Unfortunately, we often shoebox and stereotype based on ethnicity. We are all individuals and should be treated as such. Great posting. Thanks!

I don't know how far we have come in understanding how the word "negro" suddenly became offensive, and I probably muddied that up a bit, but it's been a goof thread, so far. thanks!

[marv2]

Thanks!

I don't know how far we have come in understanding how the word "negro" suddenly became offensive, and I probably muddied that up a bit, but it's been a goof thread, so far. thanks!

I like this conversation you all are having.

[Jerry Oz]

Here's what people don't understand about labels: Whatever you consider yourself to be, it doesn't matter. It's what others consider you to be that matters. There was a professor who was hired as a department head at Ohio State University. As it turns out, his father was mixed with Black and caucasion parents, even though he could pass as white. The professor didn't even know he had a Black grandmother until he was 8 or 9 years old. Instead of disappearing into the white world, he embraced the Black part of his lineage but when it came out to his peers, he found that he was looked at differently than before because a lot of people began to think that he only got the job because of his minority status.

I'm cool if you call yourself bi-racial, mixed, colored, mulatto, Creole, redbone, or high yellow. God bless you. However, when your car breaks down in some small town in Mississippi and you have to walk to the gas station for help, don't expect those good folks to see you for your wonderfully diverse heritage. They're going to look at you and wonder what the hell that n***er is doing walking through their town. The labels that affect whether you live or die in this world are those applied by others, not yourself.

So, that tan skin and fine hair might get you somewhere in this world, but don't expect that wide nose and those thick lips to be ignored, Brother. We have to get away from labeling others.

[marv2]

Or if it breaks down in a fairly large suburb called Dearborn just outside of Detroit!

[soulster]

Just make sure that you never drive through areas where you might have issues!

[Jerry Oz]

Hah! Like New York City?

[soulster]

Hah! Like New York City? L.A., Chicago, Atlanta...pick a place!

[marv2]

Just make sure that you never drive through areas where you might have issues!

You know what? You and I are very close to the same age and I have been all over this country in big cities to the smallest of villages and rural towns beginning in the late 70's up to this day. I have not ran into any trouble to speak of [[in Stamford, CT an officer stopped me within a month of me buying my new car and questioned my about my driver's license...). My experience has been the exception. Even the few experiences around NYC cannot compare to what I know other guys have been through!

[marv2]

L.A., Chicago, Atlanta...pick a place!

Oh,Oh, you just made me remember the very worst experience I had with cops was in Chicago in 1988. I was parked waiting for my girlfriend and her little cousin at a medical clinic. The cops drove over to me, had me get out of my car. Frisked me and began searching my car for a weapon in front of a crowd of people that were watching from across the street! I had no idea why they targeted me at the time.

[Jerry Oz]

I remember being stopped while driving with my cousin in tow. While waiting for the cop to approach the car, I asked my cousin if I rolled through a stop sign or ran a red light and he told me that I didn't. The cop was very rude and demanded that I show him my license and proof of insurance. He then told my passenger to fork over his ID, as well. I'm pretty sure that he can't demand it, but my cousin gave it to him to avoid a hassle. Before he went to his cruiser, I asked why he stopped me and he told me that I didn't have my front license plate on my car.

In the ten minutes that it took to run my license and find out that I had no prior record, my cousin and I counted 17 cars in the far lane that had no front tag; we didn't even count the ones that were going the same direction. I'm pretty sure the numbers were similar, so this cop pulled me over when almost nobody bothered to put their front tags on their cars. When he came back, he told me to find the plate or I'd get a ticket if he saw me again.

"Thanks," says I. "By the way, are you stopping everybody that doesn't have a tag?" My blood was boiling now. "Yes, I am," he lied. "Why do you want to know?" My cousin was pulling on my arm to advise me to back down. I told him that I was just curious and bit my lip. I thanked my cousin later because he kept me from going to jail over something stupid like that. In the state of Ohio, that is considered a secondary violation, which means that he can cite me if he finds that I did something else that required intervention, like speeding or failing to yield right of way.

Of the five times that I've been stopped by the police, I was only treated with blatant disrespect by that one cop. He was also the only black officer to pull me over.

[thomas96]

I remember being stopped while driving with my cousin in tow. While waiting for the cop to approach the car, I asked my cousin if I rolled through a stop sign or ran a red light and he told me that I didn't. The cop was very rude and demanded that I show him my license and proof of insurance. He then told my passenger to fork over his ID, as well. I'm pretty sure that he can't demand it, but my cousin gave it to him to avoid a hassle. Before he went to his cruiser, I asked why he stopped me and he told me that I didn't have my front license plate on my car.

In the ten minutes that it took to run my license and find out that I had no prior record, my cousin and I counted 17 cars in the far lane that had no front tag; we didn't even count the ones that were going the same direction. I'm pretty sure the numbers were similar, so this cop pulled me over when almost nobody bothered to put their front tags on their cars. When he came back, he told me to find the plate or I'd get a ticket if he saw me again.

"Thanks," says I. "By the way, are you stopping everybody that doesn't have a tag?" My blood was boiling now. "Yes, I am," he lied. "Why do you want to know?" My cousin was pulling on my arm to advise me to back down. I told him that I was just curious and bit my lip. I thanked my cousin later because he kept me from going to jail over something stupid like that. In the state of Ohio, that is considered a secondary violation, which means that he can cite me if he finds that I did something else that required intervention, like speeding or failing to yield right of way.

Of the five times that I've been stopped by the police, I was only treated with blatant disrespect by that one cop. He was also the only black officer to pull me over.

If it ever happens again you need a camera [[or smartphone) in your car and you gotta film that shit, call his ass out and demand his badge number.

[splanky]

You know what? You and I are very close to the same age and I have been all over this country in big cities to the smallest of villages and rural towns beginning in the late 70's up to this day. I have not ran into any trouble to speak of [[in Stamford, CT an officer stopped me within a month of me buying my new car and questioned my about my driver's license...). My experience has been the exception. Even the few experiences around NYC cannot compare to what I know other guys have been through!

I guess it's my being just about 8-10 years older than you guys that makes
so much difference because like you I have also been all over this country
and you really don't want to know all of the things I've seen and experienced all the way back to when I was a little boy vacationing
in South Carolina...In fact, an accurate re-telling of some of the shit that
happened would make it possible for some to identify me and unlike
many, I prefer this internet anonmosity thing. That said I still try to look at
everyone as individuals first no matter how they identify themselves.
I do want to ask one question of Jerry though if I may; have you ever
personally known any Africans?...

[soulster]

I can say that i've had only positive run-ins with cops in every state i've been in except in my own home town.

[Jerry Oz]

I guess it's my being just about 8-10 years older than you guys that makes
so much difference because like you I have also been all over this country
and you really don't want to know all of the things I've seen and experienced all the way back to when I was a little boy vacationing
in South Carolina...In fact, an accurate re-telling of some of the shit that
happened would make it possible for some to identify me and unlike
many, I prefer this internet anonmosity thing. That said I still try to look at
everyone as individuals first no matter how they identify themselves.
I do want to ask one question of Jerry though if I may; have you ever
personally known any Africans?...Yes. Many of them are fine people, especially the Ethiopians and Somalis that I've known. I've also known Gambians, Liberians, and Senegalese in addition to Egyptians and Moroccans. For the most part, the folks that I've known were all working people who returned the respect that they were given.

Not to overly generalize, but there have been a few Nigerians that I've wanted to slap. These gentlemen were somewhat financially secure and their opinions of Black Americans was very low. One of my acquaintances relayed a story in which he took his family to visit his father-in-law in a rather affluent local suburb where his kids met a few Nigerian children. After about the third visit, there was a knock at the door. The father of the Nigerian children was there, politely asking my acquaintance to keep his kids away. He didn't want his children be seen playing with Black kids. That's not the only time that I'm aware of something like this.

Again, I'm not going to generalize against anybody, but there are many Africans who look down their noses at Black Americans. In retrospect, there are enough Black people that have the same opinion of other Black people [[some of them whom frequent these forums; one of whom may have posted on this thread), so why should I be surprised that anybody would think they're better than us?

[splanky]

Yes. Many of them are fine people, especially the Ethiopians and Somalis that I've known. I've also known Gambians, Liberians, and Senegalese in addition to Egyptians and Moroccans. For the most part, the folks that I've known were all working people who returned the respect that they were given.

Not to overly generalize, but there have been a few Nigerians that I've wanted to slap. These gentlemen were somewhat financially secure and their opinions of Black Americans was very low. One of my acquaintances relayed a story in which he took his family to visit his father-in-law in a rather affluent local suburb where his kids met a few Nigerian children. After about the third visit, there was a knock at the door. The father of the Nigerian children was there, politely asking my acquaintance to keep his kids away. He didn't want his children be seen playing with Black kids. That's not the only time that I'm aware of something like this.

Again, I'm not going to generalize against anybody, but there are many Africans who look down their noses at Black Americans. In retrospect, there are enough Black people that have the same opinion of other Black people [[some of them whom frequent these forums; one of whom may have posted on this thread), so why should I be surprised that anybody would think they're better than us?

Clear enough. Seems we've both had similiar experiences with some of the people we've
crossed paths with...

[marv2]

I can say that i've had only positive run-ins with cops in every state i've been in except in my own home town.

The only consistent interactions I've ever had were with the Suffolk County NY [[Long Island) police. Those guys have always treated me right from fixing flat tires to helping me avoid insurance rates increases! They are the exception!

[marv2]

I remember being stopped while driving with my cousin in tow. While waiting for the cop to approach the car, I asked my cousin if I rolled through a stop sign or ran a red light and he told me that I didn't. The cop was very rude and demanded that I show him my license and proof of insurance. He then told my passenger to fork over his ID, as well. I'm pretty sure that he can't demand it, but my cousin gave it to him to avoid a hassle. Before he went to his cruiser, I asked why he stopped me and he told me that I didn't have my front license plate on my car.

In the ten minutes that it took to run my license and find out that I had no prior record, my cousin and I counted 17 cars in the far lane that had no front tag; we didn't even count the ones that were going the same direction. I'm pretty sure the numbers were similar, so this cop pulled me over when almost nobody bothered to put their front tags on their cars. When he came back, he told me to find the plate or I'd get a ticket if he saw me again.

"Thanks," says I. "By the way, are you stopping everybody that doesn't have a tag?" My blood was boiling now. "Yes, I am," he lied. "Why do you want to know?" My cousin was pulling on my arm to advise me to back down. I told him that I was just curious and bit my lip. I thanked my cousin later because he kept me from going to jail over something stupid like that. In the state of Ohio, that is considered a secondary violation, which means that he can cite me if he finds that I did something else that required intervention, like speeding or failing to yield right of way.

Of the five times that I've been stopped by the police, I was only treated with blatant disrespect by that one cop. He was also the only black officer to pull me over.

Something similar to this happened to me in the Bronx in August of 1997! I remember the month and the year because it was the day that both Mother Teresa and Princess Diana happened to be in the Bronx [[they both passed away shortly thereafter.....) I was driving with my younger brother who was visiting and we were pulled over right after I turned left onto St. Raymond Ave. Two cops stopped us, approached my car with guns drawn on either side of the car. I was told my turn signal light was out. I had to almost kick my brother to make him keep quiet. The officer that came to my side of the car was a rookie trainee, the other was an older cop. They were grinning the whole time and only issued me a warning to have it fixed in 30 days. Now I had been driving around for weeks and had driven all the way from Long Island and no one had stopped me before this!

[Jerry Oz]

"To protect and serve"? Maybe sometimes. Other times, it's like this car from the "Transformers" film: "To punish and enslave".http://motoren.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/transformers-barricade-01.jpg

[marv2]

"To protect and serve"? Maybe sometimes. Other times, it's like this car from the "Transformers" film: "To punish and enslave".http://motoren.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/transformers-barricade-01.jpg

LOL!!!! Good one! Sadly, it is soooooo true!

[stephanie]

Oh Gosh! Sometimes I know why Ice T [[was it him) that said F the police. There are good policeman out there though.

[Jerry Oz]

That was Ice Cube and NWA.

[timmyfunk]

"African American" is totally ridiculous. Whoopi Goldberg says she don't like it either, she says when you "hyphenate" her, it's like your'e tryin to tell her she's not 100 percent american. Black to me is what has always been the standard, short, sweet, one syllable and all inclusive. Ain't no damn body can tell by looking at someone whether they really are "african american" or actual africans. Actually, I'm told that Africans get offended when people call them "African american". Black people come from all over, Jamaica, Dominicans, even Europe and England, Maxine Nightingale sure ain't no "african american".

Says you. I happen to be very comfortable with the term African-American, as Italians prefer Italian American, Irish prefer Irish American, and so forth. We have a U.S. president that is the literal definition of African-American. And it doesn't matter if you can't tell whether someone is African-American. I use that term, as well as Black.

[Roberta75]

"African American" is totally ridiculous. Whoopi Goldberg says she don't like it either, she says when you "hyphenate" her, it's like your'e tryin to tell her she's not 100 percent american. Black to me is what has always been the standard, short, sweet, one syllable and all inclusive. Ain't no damn body can tell by looking at someone whether they really are "african american" or actual africans. Actually, I'm told that Africans get offended when people call them "African american". Black people come from all over, Jamaica, Dominicans, even Europe and England, Maxine Nightingale sure ain't no "african american".

No offense meant but arent you a white man jillfoster? If thats the case im not real sure your opinion matter much on this subject as youll never be called Black or African American. I happen to think African American is respectful but thats only my opinion.

Roberta

[144man]

An article in a newspaper this week mentioned that an acting role was to be offered to a "non-Caucasian".

[Jerry Oz]

That narrows it down without offending anyone, doesn't it?

[roger]

Says you. I happen to be very comfortable with the term African-American, as Italians prefer Italian American, Irish prefer Irish American, and so forth. We have a U.S. president that is the literal definition of African-American. And it doesn't matter if you can't tell whether someone is African-American. I use that term, as well as Black.

I used to go to Italy quite frequently and I don't think that I ever met any Italians there who thought of themselves as being "Italian-American".

Similarly, i used to go to Ireland a lot and I think that the Irish people there would have ben grossy offended if I had insisted that they were "Irish-American".

Seriously ... why don't you people in the 50 States just call yourselves "American" .. it is what the rest of the world sees you as being!!

Roger

[Jerry Oz]

Roger, most Italians have heritage that is based in that country, as are most Irish, French, Chinese, etc. In contrast, most Americans' lineages are in other countries and identification with their roots [[and communities) served important social roles in a country full of immigrants. The only true 'Americans' are those native to this continent.

There is no need for native Italians to refer to their immigrant heritage because they don't have one.

Plus, in this country we need ways to lift ourselves up, and since merit doesn't provide an unfair advantage, we rise by lowering others. Those titles that we give ourselves help us discriminate and hate by telling us who is different from ourselves. Once we know who the boogie men are, it's easier to rationalize why we treat them differently.

[soulster]

Says you. I happen to be very comfortable with the term African-American, as Italians prefer Italian American, Irish prefer Irish American, and so forth. We have a U.S. president that is the literal definition of African-American. And it doesn't matter if you can't tell whether someone is African-American. I use that term, as well as Black.

I will never be totally comfortable with "African-American", but that is just me. We are not a monolith, obviously. We all have our own opinions and what each of us prefer to be called.

[soulster]

Seriously ... why don't you people in the 50 States just call yourselves "American" .. it is what the rest of the world sees you as being!!

It's about cultural identification, Roger. Sure, we're Americans, but, since this country [[and Canada) is made up of so many ethnicities, many of whom are relative immigrants with strong transitions, want to retain the culture of their ancestors. To lose that identity is to become generic. To be blunt, it means losing that identity to the dominant culture [[European caucasian). So, ancestral identification is important to most Americans, be it Italian, Polish, Mexican, or African. To ignore those identifiers is an insult. When someone complains about people not just calling themselves "Americans", it is a way of them saying "Why don't you just act like us?".

[arr&bee]

The word[negro]is an american bastardization of the portuguese word[azenegu]which means black,but as we[blacks]were moved out of africa to other parts of the world the name went through changes with little or no respect intended.

[splanky]

The word[negro]is an american bastardization of the portuguese word[azenegu]which means black,but as we[blacks]were moved out of africa to other parts of the world the name went through changes with little or no respect intended.

Jai, I'm familiar with the term Azenegue refering to blacks in West Africa and their relationships with the Portugese; colonisation I should say, but Negro, I've undestood to
directly come from Negra in Spanish which means black. Spain brought slaves to and/or
colonised most of the Americas which is why Spanish in some variations is spoken from
Mexico ,Puerto Rico and Cuba to Argentina, Columbia and Peru. Portugal basically only
captured Brazil but they brought as many slaves as were brought to America and colonised
inland African countries like Mozambique as well as the Cape Verde Islands [[which BTW
gave us the parents of Tavares).Negra is the term most bastardized today...with pride no less..

[arr&bee]

Negra was used by slave owners in the antibellum south,so it ain't cool,for those of you who wonder why we use the designation[african american]you have to understand that africans were brought to this country in chians,unlike other folks that left of thier own free will.

[soulster]

Most of us are aware of the history of "negra", but I still don't care for "African-American", especially since it excludes the other parts of my heritage, no matter how they may have come to be. And, the truth is that not all Black Americans came over in chains.

In short, our true history in this country is one that has not been documented well. All we know about is slavery.

[arr&bee]

I dig what you're saying,i'm cool with[black american] yes there were blacks who came before 1619,but as a whole we come over here on the mayflower.

[arr&bee]

i dig what you're saying,i'm cool with[black american] yes there were blacks who came before 1619,but as a whole we come over here on the mayflower.i meant we didn't come over on the mayflower.

[soulster]

i meant we didn't come over on the mayflower.

You had me worried there!

We were on the Mayflower as servants and mistresses. It's also silly to think that there were never African explorers who found this land. With the close proximity the North American continent is to Africa, it's not such a hard thing to realize. Sailing the ocean didn't start with the Europeans. The American Indians were not the very first inhabitants here, either. The history of the U.S. is so twisted and inaccurate it ain't funny! But, make no mistake: African slavery was much worse than is acknowledged.

[arr&bee]

Yep,history is still being discovered and the real facts will never be known,it is said that the indians were here 13,000 yrs before anyone else again according to history,maybe the norsemen were around too maybe.

[soulster]

Yep,history is still being discovered and the real facts will never be known,it is said that the indians were here 13,000 yrs before anyone else again according to history,maybe the norsemen were around too maybe.

Archeologists and others who study world history can piece a lot of the real facts. There is nothing we can't discover. It just takes time and the willingness to find the truth.

[144man]

The number of different language families spoken by American Indians could push back the date of their arrival to 50,000 years ago.

[roger]

The number of different language families spoken by American Indians could push back the date of their arrival to 50,000 years ago.

Interesting theory 144man .. some Anthropologists believe that the earliest human inhabitants of the Americas were closely related to The Australian Aborigines.

There is an interesting article at The National Geographic from 2003 that adds credence to this ....

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/09/0903_030903_bajaskull.html

Not to mention this Time-Life/BBC documentary from 1999 ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6IrMjfbh6E

Regarding "The Mayflower", I find it difficult to believe that there were any "Servants" or "Mistresses" on board the ship as it was manned by strict Puritan/Protestants who would not have approved of such things. Leaving that aside, why is it that so much importance is given to events in 1620 with "The Mayflower" and Plymouth, Massachussetts when the first English colonies in what is now the United States were actually created in Virginia a dozen or so years earlier. Indeed, one of them ... Jamestown, Virginia, founded on May 14th 1607, is still inhabited to this day .. this link has some of the history ....

http://www.apva.org/rediscovery/page.php?page_id=6

For those who are interested, the link states that the first documented arrival of Africans in what is now the U.S.A. was in Jamestown, Virginia in 1619 [[one year before the arrival of "The Mayflower") when a Dutch Captain traded some "servants" for food.

Roger

[soulster]

Regarding "The Mayflower", I find it difficult to believe that there were any "Servants" or "Mistresses" on board the ship as it was manned by strict Puritan/Protestants who would not have approved of such things. Leaving that aside, why is it that so much importance is given to events in 1620 with "The Mayflower" and Plymouth, Massachussetts when the first English colonies in what is now the United States were actually created in Virginia a dozen or so years earlier. Indeed, one of them ... Jamestown, Virginia, founded on May 14th 1607, is still inhabited to this day .. this link has some of the history ....

http://www.apva.org/rediscovery/page.php?page_id=6

For those who are interested, the link states that the first documented arrival of Africans in what is now the U.S.A. was in Jamestown, Virginia in 1619 [[one year before the arrival of "The Mayflower") when a Dutch Captain traded some "servants" for food.

Roger

The Puritans, who were protestants, had an enormous influence in the direction of this country, even today. They fled the church of England because of it, but they came here only to do the same.

[marv2]

The Puritans, who were protestants, had an enormous influence in the direction of this country, even today. They fled the church of England because of it, but they came here only to do the same.

They also burned and lynched those accused of being witches.

[roger]

The Puritans, who were protestants, had an enormous influence in the direction of this country, even today. They fled the church of England because of it, but they came here only to do the same.

That is pretty much what we were taught in school here in England Soulster, certainly their variety of Protestantism seems a lot more prevelent in the U.S.A. than it does in modern England [[though perhaps not in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland). However we were also led to believe that the passengers on "The Mayflower" founded the first English settlement in what is now the U.S.A. and so it came as a surprise to me when I learnt about Jamestown a few years later.

Roger

[144man]

Roger, I found that 1999 BBC documentary extremely interesting. Thanks.

[splanky]

Negra was used by slave owners in the antibellum south,so it ain't cool,for those of you who wonder why we use the designation[african american]you have to understand that africans were brought to this country in chians,unlike other folks that left of thier own free will.

Damn, Jai, I meant to say this earlier but though I get what you said and I know black people
have had the unique experience of having their ethnicity and color used as a "rational "
reason [[read: excuse) to justify placing them into a lifetime of bondage, let's not forget that
the Chinese were brought here by the British to build the railroads and then left stranded
in a new country they had to adjust and adapt to...

[arr&bee]

It's not quite the same.

[splanky]

It's not quite the same.

Never said it was, Jai. It's just that a lot of us seem to believe that American black people
were the only folks ever exploited by others and world history proves that that is not the
whole truth. If it's all about playing a blaming game there are people all over the world
who can cite their own abuse by other people and nations. And that is something that is
still going on to this day. Look at Russia and the Ukraine...Sometimes I think if I were God
I'd scrap the whole humankind experiment and start all over with another entity:)...

[soulster]

Just about every group of people on this planet have been enslaved at one point or another. But, we are specifically talking about the U.S. here. The Chinese, American Indians, some Mexicans, and even poor Whites were enslaved, but no other group here were enslaved as long, or as brutally as the Africans who were shipped here.

[splanky]

no other group here were enslaved as long, or as brutally as the Africans who were shipped here.

This I can agree with, soulster, and I am not trying to argue this point but...

"Just about every group of people on this planet have been enslaved at one point or another"
this I cannot. I could almost if you had used the word exploited but there are scores of
people on this planet who have NEVER been enslaved for one reason or another though
I'll admit most of them have been European or Asian. As far as abuse is concerned we know
almost the entire continent of Africa was colonised. Still, today it's a different ballgame
if you know what I mean...

[Jerry Oz]

Never said it was, Jai. It's just that a lot of us seem to believe that American black people
were the only folks ever exploited by others and world history proves that that is not the
whole truth. If it's all about playing a blaming game there are people all over the world
who can cite their own abuse by other people and nations. And that is something that is
still going on to this day. Look at Russia and the Ukraine...Sometimes I think if I were God
I'd scrap the whole humankind experiment and start all over with another entity:)...People who believe that we were the only peoples to be exploited prove that you can only go as far as you are taught. I know of some folks who feel entitled based upon past abuses, but I don't know any who fail to recognize that others have similar grievances. If anything, they focus on the state of African-Americans/Blacks/People of Color/Negroes/Brothers and Sisters because our inclusion in the American mainstream seems to have been halted prior to being fully realized.

[arr&bee]

Fully realized???

[marv2]

Looks like Uncle Smokey may have been peeping in and reading this thread.....check this out:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIkNsj6cDGc

[soulster]

I liked that! Brother Smokey! Smokin'! He almost lost me at 5:54, started to sound like one of his buddies at Fox, but, he bounced back and he has it right.