supremes singles that weren't big hits - what it

[sup_fan]

just thought it might be fun to see how people would change some of the tracks that weren't big hits for the girls. what might have made them go higher on the charts? of course many people might like them as is and that's fine

In and Out - i just don't like the "bounciness" of the bass line and rhythm track. i wonder if it was more straight driving like You Can't Hurry Love or My World. hmmmm My World is rather haunting and "minor key" sounding. maybe that would be an interested remixing of In and Out

Living In Shame - lyrics lyrics lyrics lol. ditch the homemade jam, the stockings without elastic supports, etc lol

Shadows of Society - i know this was just an lp track but was recorded around the the Love Child lp time. maybe it could have been the follow up to LC. needs something to make it a bit more catchy

Floy Joy - this was a pretty big hit. but i think it would have worked even better if Cindy had some of the lines in the recording.

Touch - aside from the single mix being a bit jacked up compared to the LP, i wonder if it wasn't so eerie sounding in the intro. more lush with strings and backing track. not just that odd military drum intro. also perhaps Jean should have started it and mary just do some of the middle lines. hmmmm - jean lead the whole thing?

Driving Wheel - the single mix i think is lacking excitement. the ad libs, a stronger more present guitar

thoughts?

[Ngroove]

"You Are The Heart of Me" - I say should have been, with full backing up promotion from Berry Gordy and Motown. I really don't know if there was "Scherrie Payne" or "Jean Terrell" people back then, but c'mon, Mary had been loyal - and she's got a voice too! Or, does the music charts has no tolerance for seductively voiced people?

[sup_fan]

i think this is a strong song too. i might have cut the moans and groans lol. a bit too Donna Summer but the track is gorgeous and mary's voice is strong.

i always thought the girls version of This Old Heart Of Mine should have been a single

[marv2]

"You Are The Heart of Me" - I say should have been, with full backing up promotion from Berry Gordy and Motown. I really don't know if there was "Scherrie Payne" or "Jean Terrell" people back then, but c'mon, Mary had been loyal - and she's got a voice too! Or, does the music charts has no tolerance for seductively voiced people?

Ngroove! "You Are The Heart of Me" is in my top 3 all time favorite Supremes songs. Mary was superb on it and it could have easily been a hit in my opinion. It also could have been an Adult Contempary hit.

[supremester]

just thought it might be fun to see how people would change some of the tracks that weren't big hits for the girls. what might have made them go higher on the charts? of course many people might like them as is and that's fine

In and Out - i just don't like the "bounciness" of the bass line and rhythm track. i wonder if it was more straight driving like You Can't Hurry Love or My World. hmmmm My World is rather haunting and "minor key" sounding. maybe that would be an interested remixing of In and Out

I couln't agree more. As is, I would not have released it. I like the vocal, and the lyric is strong enough, but the bounce has got to go. It should have been a rocker, not a pop ditty with a country tinged under-taste as a follow up to Reflections??? NUTS.

Living In Shame - lyrics lyrics lyrics lol. ditch the homemade jam, the stockings without elastic supports, etc lol

My equation holds true: Love Child minus Deke Richards = I'm Livin' In Shame. Top ten ONLY because it was released with DR&TS had two platinum singles in the top ten at the time, it's not a bad record, but it IS a terrible follow up. Ross' vocal is there, and the "mama mama " chant works, but the lyrics are corn ball AND the production is only so/so. Most of Gordy's follow up ordered singles were giant step downs, but this played OK on the radio. They needed a lot more on this one because as a follow up to perhaps their best record ever, they should have worked harder. Much harder. The intro speaks volumes about what lies ahead.

Shadows of Society - i know this was just an lp track but was recorded around the the Love Child lp time. maybe it could have been the follow up to LC. needs something to make it a bit more catchy

I liked this track at first listen, but it needs so much work to make it a single. There's no chorus, no hook and no bg interplay. There is, I believe, a seed here for a hit, but it is light years away as is. Her vocal is great.

Floy Joy - this was a pretty big hit. but i think it would have worked even better if Cindy had some of the lines in the recording.

I disagree totally. Cindy's voice was, IMHO, not radio material. Period. I think her bgs with Mary held back some of the single's potential. What do you think she would bring to the song? I think Mary's vocal needs a bit more life and spark to it - there's a dullness that a lot of folks don't like. I do think Smokey was spot on using both of them.

Touch - aside from the single mix being a bit jacked up compared to the LP, i wonder if it wasn't so eerie sounding in the intro. more lush with strings and backing track. not just that odd military drum intro. also perhaps Jean should have started it and mary just do some of the middle lines. hmmmm - jean lead the whole thing?

This single is a hot mess: the intro, silly/cornball wannabe lyrics, the meandering break, and, Jean's strident vocals are horrendous. Mary sets the tone beautifully with what she has to work with, but Jean is too strong and and pushy with her vocal - creating a jarring effect which not only ruins the mood, but makes it impossible to follow the intent of the lyric. The recent posting of Mary/Scherrie singing Touch in 1975 shows how much better it could sound with a controlled soprano follow to Mary. I still think this is a mess of epic proportions, like I did the first time I heard it. No way would Touch get played. I'm surprised it made it to 67.

Driving Wheel - the single mix i think is lacking excitement. the ad libs, a stronger more present guitar

Not single material.

thoughts?

You have to remember that a lot of people do not like Mary's voice, so as good as she can be, you have to look at her vocals objectively.

[supremester]

"You Are The Heart of Me" - I say should have been, with full backing up promotion from Berry Gordy and Motown. I really don't know if there was "Scherrie Payne" or "Jean Terrell" people back then, but c'mon, Mary had been loyal - and she's got a voice too! Or, does the music charts has no tolerance for seductively voiced people?

I agree. A hint of tweaking on the production [[it's a bit slow, opens too A/C sounding and losing the moans,) you have a very credible shot at possibly strong top 40 play. Mary nails this. Motown would have definitely been behind it as they had very little happening in '77 and needed cash.

As for your comment about loyalty - WGAF? No one but a few fans. Most folks didn't even know who The Supremes were anymore as the number of changes became a giant obstacle. Mary's voice was seductive, but, definitely an acquired taste.

[bradsupremes]

Regarding "In And Out Of Love," maybe HDH should have used the original Funk Bros track cut in the same session as "Reflections" and "The Happening" instead of recutting it weeks later in LA.

Maybe we'll get a sweet treat on the expanded Reflections album...

[144man]

I was never keen on "In And Out of Love" when it came out because to me it just sounded like a pastiche of everything that had gone before. Where is the country tinge you mention, Supremester? I just don't hear it.

[Glenpwood]

You're My Driving Wheel has its charms but why on earth did they not just call it You're My Steering Wheel? All the lyrics alluded to the girls bodies being like a car and not a steam locomotive which is where one would actually find a driving wheel....

[144man]

Maybe poetic licence.

[smark21]

Were there any cuts on the MSS album that were radio friendly singles? There were club friendly songs and a quiet storm proto-classic [[We Should Be Closer Together) but radio friendly?

[BayouMotownMan]

I agree with most of this, there was many a time I bought a Supremes single without having actually heard it and rarely was I disappointed. Exception, songs I felt were wrong and were not gonna be hits were:

The Composer. It just doesn't work
The Young Folks. Totally boring
Someday We'll Be Together. OK I was wrong but I still don't care for it
You Gotta Have Love In Your Heart. Jean wails on here but it doesn't save it.
Touch. The Single mix is murky
Your Wonderful Sweet, Sweet Love. Two network performances couldn't make me like it
I Guess I'll Miss The Man. What? Supremes trying to be the Carpenters? No funk here
Bad Weather. Doesn't even sound like Jean Terrell on the lead and the bass in clumsy
You're My Driving Wheel. An odd structure, was not the best cut on MSS

[Methuselah2]

"Came the telegram . . ."
Funeral attendee--
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Well, so much for the rolled down stockings, I guess--
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EXCLUSIVE! Mama in Spain!--
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8340
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[supremester]

I didn't know that In & Out was originally cut in Detroit - that explains EVERYTHING. For 47 years I've been SHM over this record - WTF were they thinking? Mind you, I don't think it's a bad record - at all - I DO think it's a rotten follow up to the previous 4 killer singles. I will personally beg Andy for a release on the Detroit track. what we got is so namby-pamby.


Regarding "In And Out Of Love," maybe HDH should have used the original Funk Bros track cut in the same session as "Reflections" and "The Happening" instead of recutting it weeks later in LA.

Maybe we'll get a sweet treat on the expanded Reflections album...

[supremester]

The intro, to me, has a country - Behind Closed Doors kind of sound, plus the record itself kind of lopes along like Sterling Holloway in a 30's western.

Also, the bgs are so........ yeechy. I like the "oooooo"s but the sound of the voices on the rest just seem so...... not distinctive enough, I guess. I love The A's, and I love Flo & Mary, but this sound isn't clear enough.

Also, I think if they were going to go with this LA session track, it shooda gone to Gladys. Im not knocking Ross' vocal - I love it - but the track is too weak without some grit. Shocking as this sounds, I'd have given Grapevine to DR&TS and In & Out to Gladys. i love Gladys' Grapevine, I can can hear a DR&TS version in my head that goes #1.


I was never keen on "In And Out of Love" when it came out because to me it just sounded like a pastiche of everything that had gone before. Where is the country tinge you mention, Supremester? I just don't hear it.

[marv2]

You're My Driving Wheel has its charms but why on earth did they not just call it You're My Steering Wheel? All the lyrics alluded to the girls bodies being like a car and not a steam locomotive which is where one would actually find a driving wheel....

I liked that song. The thing that makes it different or somewhat unusal is the "chanters" are leading the "caller". In other words the background is followed by a response from the lead throughout the record. Ever notice that?

[supremester]

I think You Are The Heart Of Me, with some work, could have gone top ten and become their signature song. The mix is a bit heavy handed at times, and Mary could re-cut a few lines - I'm being picky here, but I'm sure there's a 3:20 version in there somewhere that would have hit. For TV, I'd have put Scherrie & Susaye in straight jackets and all the focus to be on Mary - who's trying to sell a tender vocal and doesn't need that uninspired, forced arm waving BS to fight her.

I think that aiming the group in the ballad direction with the arsenal that Mary was becoming would have given the group some depth and more respect for their overall product. The last girl group to have successive top tens was Honey Cone in 1971, and, before that, DR&TS. Girl groups were not fan faves in the 70's, none were big for very long and none hit consistently. Eventually, The Pointers rose to the top, but I think MSS - with intense work - could have made it with Mary doing strong ballads, Scherrie doing Don't Leave Me This Way [[shooda gone to MSS) and Susaye doing her thing. There was such a dearth of strong material and men dominated the charts - add Pedro to the mix and you can see how the odds were against them.
Were there any cuts on the MSS album that were radio friendly singles? There were club friendly songs and a quiet storm proto-classic [[We Should Be Closer Together) but radio friendly?

[Methuselah2]

Supremester - Your Sterling Holloway reference was sheer perfection--it really tickled me!

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[Ollie9]

Motown got it so very very wrong with the MS&S album.
I Don't Want To Be Tied Down screeeeemed hit single. You Are The Heart Of Me would have made for a classy follow up.

[LuvHangOva]

RE: In and out of Love>>>>>, the bgs are so........ yeechy. I like the "oooooo"s but the sound of the voices on the rest just seem so...... not distinctive enough, I guess. I love The A's, and I love Flo & Mary, but this sound isn't clear enough.

Also, I think if they were going to go with this LA session track, it shooda gone to Gladys. Im not knocking Ross' vocal - I love it - but the track is too weak without some grit. Shocking as this sounds, I'd have given Grapevine to DR&TS and In & Out to Gladys. i love Gladys' Grapevine, I can can hear a DR&TS version in my head that goes #1.

Supremester, You are one of my idols...I think you know that...but I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one..since the production style of the Gladys version was intended to replicate the feel and raw soulfulness of Ree's "Respect" . To that end I thnk i worked---to a degree...it didn't sound exactly like something Ree would have done but It gave Motown a record that was "earthy, funky and quintessentially/unapologetically 'Black'. Miss Ross and The Girls would not have been able to offer what the producers set out to accomplish. The record had a definite mission.

[supremester]

I expected a lot of "Are you nuts??????" but not your compliment - gosh, it's nice - I don't think too many share your opinion - but thanks.
Grapevine- I 'm so used to Diana vs Mary, I've forgotten how to order at Popeyes, let alone discuss the music. I meant to convey that I totally agree that DR&TS woodnt do what Gladys did with it, I'm cool with that. I didn't know about the Aretha thing, cuz it had been kicking around for so long, but I totally get it. My point about switching assignments is that I think Gladys would have hit harder with in & Out, and DR&TS would have, in her style, hit hard with Grapevine - but it would need HDH on it with Norman on the boards. It's a killer song and I truly believe that, on the heels of Reflections, DR&TS' Grapevine wooda murdered. This, coming from someone who dreaded his first listen to DR&TS' Nitty Gritty [[perhaps my fave Gladys 45 ever....def in my top 3 always.)
Remember: Miss Ross has nailed genres, sounds and styles no one thought possible. HDH was blown away many times by her killer vocals - and they worked with her the most. LSTB, .......in one year, she recorded Love Child, Someday, The Weiight, NMWSYA and The Leading Lady Medley - "various styles" to say the least.....and nailed them. I think she'd have been inspired by the track and wowed us.

[supremester]

I agree with most of this, there was many a time I bought a Supremes single without having actually heard it and rarely was I disappointed. Exception, songs I felt were wrong and were not gonna be hits were:

The Composer. It just doesn't work
Not as a single, for sure...but what did they have?
The Young Folks. Totally boring
Had it been produced much stronger for radio, it could have caught on that summer.
Someday We'll Be Together. OK I was wrong but I still don't care for it
You Gotta Have Love In Your Heart. Jean wails on here but it doesn't save it.
This 45 was released - it escaped! The vocals are great but, c'mon, that cloying lyric and insipid production [["then you'll feel good - yes you will!") I'm LOL just typing it. There's no saving this for pop radio.
Touch. The Single mix is murky
Your Wonderful Sweet, Sweet Love. Two network performances couldn't make me like it
Jean's vocal needed to be warmer and isn't succinct enough on the verses to sell the lyric. With the melody bouncing up and down, she really needed to e-noun-ci-ate better on several tracks - this is one. I don't like the sound of the bg - it's weak and colorless. Also, the track sounded a little like a Saturday Morning Pop Tarts commercial - it needed more of an edge to enhance the buoyancy. It's not a bad track, but would never make play lists as is - which is too bad as it could have been excellent summer radio listening.
I Guess I'll Miss The Man. What? Supremes trying to be the Carpenters? No funk here
And no Roberta Flack, either. The song isn't strong enough on it's own and the production doesn't enhance it. Jean eventually topped this vocal on TV, but still it's not AM radio fare.
Bad Weather. Doesn't even sound like Jean Terrell on the lead and the bass in clumsy
The least radio friendy Rossless Supremes single ever...Jean's forte was not this. I'd have given it to Mary and made it a B-side.
You're My Driving Wheel. An odd structure, was not the best cut on MSS
there was so much dance music out there - it had to be special. This was, like Your Love Is So Good For Me, run-of-the-mill dance song: just fine, but are you gonna knock off Love Hangover or Love To Love You Baby for this? Uh -uh!

[144man]

The intro, to me, has a country - Behind Closed Doors kind of sound, plus the record itself kind of lopes along like Sterling Holloway in a 30's western.

Also, the bgs are so........ yeechy. I like the "oooooo"s but the sound of the voices on the rest just seem so...... not distinctive enough, I guess. I love The A's, and I love Flo & Mary, but this sound isn't clear enough.

Also, I think if they were going to go with this LA session track, it shooda gone to Gladys. Im not knocking Ross' vocal - I love it - but the track is too weak without some grit. Shocking as this sounds, I'd have given Grapevine to DR&TS and In & Out to Gladys. i love Gladys' Grapevine, I can can hear a DR&TS version in my head that goes #1.

Wow! Now you've drawn my attention to it, I do totally hear what you mean and am consequently enjoying the track more. I can so imagine Gladys Knight & the Pips doing it. If Norman Whitfield had cut DR&TS on "Grapevine", I think he'd have been more inclined to go for a slow version.

[antceleb12]

I still think that "Going Down for the Third Time" would have made for a great single. That was truly one of the Supremes' most soulful records. Diana lets loose, Florence and Mary are given the perfect, soaring background vocal, and talk about that funky instrumental track! Still one of my favorites.

[longtimefan]

Great thread and discussion. The kind that SDF fans enjoy!

[captainjames]

"I'll Set You Free" would have been and awesome single if it was remixed during the bridge. Diana does an outstanding job on lead with this song. I really felt this song. : In and Out of Love" was definitely laced with a country flavor and I would have preferred a more R & B beat to it. The Lyrics were not not bad but the music was horrific. "I'm Living In Shame" I can't really complained because we played that song until it would not play anymore. Its funny but I remember the words only after a few attempts.

[captainjames]

Oh yeah one last thing I don't think "Touch" would have worked with anyone singing it. I believe I have an album with The Jackson 5 singing it as well. It wasn't any better with Michael and Jermaine singing it. In all honesty, it was just bad.

[Glenpwood]

Its funny that a lot of the songs people didn't think worked as singles are some of my favorite Supremes tracks. "You're Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love," "In and Out Of Love," "Some Things You Never Get Used To," "Bad Weather" and "Touch" according to my I-tunes play counts get more spins than some of the girls chart toppers. YWSSL is one of my favorite Jean vocals. Sassy, sultry, and sexy. I agree that the single mix of Touch killed its chances but each Supreme gets her moment in the sun, particularly Cindy's "Oh Baby!" The rest are just great performances with subtle ear candy. While they may not be the artistic triumphs of "Love Child" or "You Keep Me Hangin' On" they deserved better fates than what actually occurred on the charts.....

[marv2]

Its funny that a lot of the songs people didn't think worked as singles are some of my favorite Supremes tracks. "You're Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love," "In and Out Of Love," "Some Things You Never Get Used To," "Bad Weather" and "Touch" according to my I-tunes play counts get more spins than some of the girls chart toppers. YWSSL is one of my favorite Jean vocals. Sassy, sultry, and sexy. I agree that the single mix of Touch killed its chances but each Supreme gets her moment in the sun, particularly Cindy's "Oh Baby!" The rest are just great performances with subtle ear candy. While they may not be the artistic triumphs of "Love Child" or "You Keep Me Hangin' On" they deserved better fates than what actually occurred on the charts.....

You're Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love," was a great single. One of my favorites. They were really singing on that one!

[motony]

"In & Out of Love" & "I'm Livin In Shame"[[which I didn't care for-corny lyrics) were big hits.Most artists would kill for records that big. #9 & #11 on the Hot 100.

[bradsupremes]

I've always considered "In And Out Of Love" and "I'm Livin In Shame" to be the forgotten Supremes hits. Both went top 10, but neither had the lasting impact as previous singles. I think "I'm Livin' In Shame" could have done better if they rewrote some of the lyrics. The homemade jam line is laughable, yet the line about her being afraid of people seeing her mother and growing up to be her was pretty deep.

"Going Down For The Third Time" should have been the follow-up to "You Keep Me Hangin' On." It's a rocking tune that I believe would have easily made it to number one on the charts. Motown foolishly let that one slip by. "I'll Set You Free" was another single worthy song that Motown let slip by.

From the 70's era, "Together We Can Make Such Sweet Music" should have been the follow-up single to "Stoned Love." It didn't scream number one like "Stoned Love" did, but it certainly was top 10 potential.

[honest man]

Criminal That You Gave Me Love was never issued as a DRATS single.Wonderful production etc ,it has everything going for it to hit,cheers.

[supremester]

I agree. I'd have used it as the follow up to Reflections had it not been a B side already. I love the vocals and this record is a perfect example of being able to use Flo & Mary & The A's in perfect harmony.[[ I wish there were still some killer unearthed Flo & Mary bgs left somewhere. ) It's possible that this was held back from A Go Go for possible single release. I love the different versions - it shows how much thought and "what ifs" went into it.



I still think that "Going Down for the Third Time" would have made for a great single. That was truly one of the Supremes' most soulful records. Diana lets loose, Florence and Mary are given the perfect, soaring background vocal, and talk about that funky instrumental track! Still one of my favorites.

[supremester]

That's the difference between what WE like and what PD's project what the public would like. I played Remember Me until it was running away and hiding in my sock drawer, but it didn't hit. I loved The Weight and everyone hates it. Ditto Sorry Doesnt Always Make It Right - I can tell you why they didnt hit - even though I dig em.

How would you have edited Touch to get a hit off it? I can't hear it.

Its funny that a lot of the songs people didn't think worked as singles are some of my favorite Supremes tracks. "You're Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love," "In and Out Of Love," "Some Things You Never Get Used To," "Bad Weather" and "Touch" according to my I-tunes play counts get more spins than some of the girls chart toppers. YWSSL is one of my favorite Jean vocals. Sassy, sultry, and sexy. I agree that the single mix of Touch killed its chances but each Supreme gets her moment in the sun, particularly Cindy's "Oh Baby!" The rest are just great performances with subtle ear candy. While they may not be the artistic triumphs of "Love Child" or "You Keep Me Hangin' On" they deserved better fates than what actually occurred on the charts.....

[supremester]

They were both briefly top ten [[Shame hit 10) because they followed huge records and got automatic heavy adds upon release. Had Shame come out after Composer or NMWSYA, it would not have fared as well. Ditto In & Out: put it out after Some Things, and it's #23. Like time slot hits on TV - move them from their strong lead-ins, and they tank. In both cases, I suspect they peaked on airplay and not sales - as they would have done much better if retail was reporting them strongly. If you look at singles like Honey Chile or Jimmy Mack or Stoned Love or Up The Ladder even - they climbed to their peaks and hung in there - so it meant that radio and retail were giving them equal support. Songs that climb fast and die fast, got lots of radio initially, but no one was buying them. Once radio learns that no one is buying them, they drop the spins and they tank fast. In & Out and Shame both evaporated rather quickly. Their follow ups, didn't get as much support from radio - and so it goes. Regardless about whatever people say about "promotion" no program director is or was going to play a record that they knew the public wasn't into. Period.
"In & Out of Love" & "I'm Livin In Shame"[[which I didn't care for-corny lyrics) were big hits.Most artists would kill for records that big. #9 & #11 on the Hot 100.

[Glenpwood]

That's the difference between what WE like and what PD's project what the public would like. I played Remember Me until it was running away and hiding in my sock drawer, but it didn't hit. I loved The Weight and everyone hates it. Ditto Sorry Doesnt Always Make It Right - I can tell you why they didnt hit - even though I dig em.

How would you have edited Touch to get a hit off it? I can't hear it.

I didn't say you could edit it into a number one. It's kind of like Forever Came Today in that the production, arrangement, and impassioned vocals carry the song. Here Comes The Sunrise would've been the safer single choice from a Top 40 standpoint. It was just a risk that failed and they bounced back from quickly with Floy Joy. I'm glad it exists. It just "Touch"-ed me in a way that it doesn't most others. From a commercial standpoint, I think that song could've only hit as a male female duet. That's why I think most people are negative about the Supremes and Jackson 5 versions. Without the gender flip, it just sounds like two singers needing touched by the same person

[supremester]

Oh, I misunderstood. I never thought about it being a duet, and I can totally hear it that way.

[Ryon6]

Motown got it so very very wrong with the MS&S album.
I Don't Want To Be Tied Down screeeeemed hit single. You Are The Heart Of Me would have made for a classy follow up.


"I Don't Want To Be Tied Down" hands down is my favorite track from this album. That's my theme .... LOL!!!

[blackguy69]

I always thought Time To Breakdown should've followed Stoned Love

[captainjames]

No Way should "Everybody Has The Right To Love" been released as the follow up to "Up The Ladder". Motown Should have moved right into 'Stoned Love".

[blackguy69]

No Way should "Everybody Has The Right To Love" been released as the follow up to "Up The Ladder". Motown Should have moved right into 'Stoned Love".i think Then We can try again or I got hurt Trying to be the only girl in your life would've been better followups. or even life beats

[marybrewster]

i think Then We can try again or I got hurt Trying to be the only girl in your life would've been better followups. or even life beats

Wasn't "Life Beats" actually consider for single release? Then pulled? I agree; IMO it would have been a much stronger single than "Got the Right."

[marybrewster]

I always thought Time To Breakdown should've followed Stoned Love

If I'm not mistaken, didn't JMC perform this on the "Flip Wilson Show?" Was Motown testing the waters with that one, the way, perhaps, they did in the 60's with "Mother Dear?"

I never cared for "Breakdown." For such a great album, "New Ways" didn't have a lot of singles potential. In fact, isn't it one of the few Supremes releases with just one [[released) single? Except for the "specialty" albums, of course.

I've always liked "Thank Him For Today"; perhaps that would have been a good follow-up, especially with the "Stoned Love" outro.

[marybrewster]

Has anyone mentioned "It's All Been Said Before" from The Supremes [['75)? This song for sure is in my Supremes "Top 5", lol. I just love it.

If I am not mistaken, this too was slated for single release, then pulled. I wonder why? I think perhaps this might have been a bit more radio-friendly. To me, it has *smash* written all over it.

[reese]

Songs that I think should have been considered for single release:

I'LL SET YOU FREE
DISCOVER ME
STUBBORN KIND OF FELLOW [[with the Tempts)
WAIT A MINUTE BEFORE YOU LEAVE ME
I WISH I WERE YOUR MIRROR
I'M GLAD ABOUT IT [[with the Tops)
JOHNNY RAVEN
HAPPY [[IS A BUMPY ROAD)
YOU'RE WHAT'S MISSING IN MY LIFE

[144man]

Nothing But Heartaches - I'd have released the version with the instrumental break, and it would have gone straight to #1.

In the Evening of Our Love - I'd have released this as a single; an obvious hit if I've ever heard one.

[sup_fan]

lots if interesting comments here

Going Down Third Time - definitely should have been a single release.
You Bring Back memories - should have been released instead of My Heart Can't Take It
Let yourself Go - should have been lead single from MSS
Touch - i just sort of like most everything supremes and never really paid enough attention i guess. i like the song but so agree that Jean does come off a bit shrill. nothing as bad as the Jimmy Webb set but against this lush background and Mary's sultry vocal, it's a bit jarring. great point
Automatically Sunshine - this one is a fav of mine, just sort of slinky and sexy. i think had they not been experiencing the lineup changes with Cindy departing, this might have gotten more push and charted better

[LuvHangOva]

I expected a lot of "Are you nuts??????" but not your compliment - gosh, it's nice - I don't think too many share your opinion - but thanks.

I had forgotten where i got my source material but THANKS to Wikipedia>>>>>>Gladys Knight & the Pips [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_Knight_%26_the_Pips) recorded "Grapevine" on June 17, 1967 in Motown's Studio A, with Norman Whitfield as producer. After hearingAretha Franklin [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aretha_Franklin)'s version of "Respect [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respect_[[song))", Whitfield rearranged "Grapevine" to include some of the funk [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk) elements of the Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_Shoals_Rhythm_Section). According to David Ritz [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ritz), Whitfield set to record a song that would "out-funk" Aretha. After Whitfield presented the demo tapes, Gladys Knight [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_Knight), Bubba Knight [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merald_%22Bubba%22_Knight), William Guest [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Guest_[[singer)), andEdward Patten [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Patten) worked for several weeks on their vocal arrangement. ....<<<<< I'm not suggesting the Gladys single is a doppelganer for Ree's "Respect" but due to Whitfield following his urge to compete with and "Out Funk" Ree Motown got one hell an awesome record. The intro of the Gladys version itself deserves some type of special award. Yes, the "call" of the horns with the "response" of Ree's piano makes for a classic intro for "Respect"...but...but...but...but..the very first second the needle hit the record and the drummer made his very first hit in the Gladys version you could tell the ship we were on was about to set sail for the nearest coast of Africa. That 10 second drum intro has always reminded me of what we hear in those National Geographic specials when the tribe is "gettin ALL THE WAY DOWN" to nothing but a polyrythmic drum rhythm. In that split second I knew FUNK and SOUL were the mission of this record . In my mind I'm not sure one record "out funks" the other; I'm just glad I have BOTH in my colecction.

Sure, the Supremes could have sung it...I'm sure perfectly on pitch and with all their might...it would have been a "nice" record. But I'm sure they would not have been chosen for any serious attempt to "out funk" Ree.

Both ladies [[Ross and Ree) are in the top two slots as MY favorite female singers. But they are not interchangeable

[daviddh]

there is an alt version of in and out of love on Japan greatest hits from the 70s, it seems to have a different mix that I like better,
touch I would have used Marys lead only . both jean and mary recorded solos for this ad then the vocals mixed.to me this is marys .
forever came today, seems unfinished..needed a fresher mix.
livin in shame...cheesy!!!!! yes I agree....YOU GAVE ME LOVE
life beats....yes for me. not EGTRTL.
together we can make such ...aftr STONED.
here comes the sunrise was listed as a follow up in supremes newsletter. yes !
over and over instead of YWSSL
when can brown begin in plc of IGIMTM
its all been said...
bend a little..
u r the heart of me
tied down/ sweet dream machine

[144man]

The thread on Mary Wilson's Opinions of the Worst Supremes Songs has led me to reconsider "I'm Living In Shame".

It strikes me that this song has been unfairly maligned mainly owing to the inclusion of the infamous couplet: "Came the telegram, Mama passed away while making homemade jam". Would everyone rather she had passed away while "eating eggs and ham" or "stuffing neck of lamb"? Maybe you would have all preferred "Heard on the telephone, Mama passed away while she was all alone" or perhaps "through choking on a bone".

The whole point is that her mother died while performing a completely random and insignificant part of her daily life. A similar circumstance could happen to each and every one of us.

For all I know about what's going to happen, it could pan out that "144man's death, Came just while he wrote a post to SDF".

[mysterysinger]

"In and Out of Love" is one of my favourite DRATS songs - clearly I'm in minority but there it is. I wouldn't like all Supremes songs to have sounded the same.

"I'm In Love Again" could have been an A-side for me as could "Any Girl In Love".

Not keen on "The Composer".

[thanxal]

there is an alt version of in and out of love on Japan greatest hits from the 70s, it seems to have a different mix that I like better,
Does anyone have an image file of this particular record? I've seen several on auction sites but have been hesitant to buy since its one of the few Supremes things I'm unsure about. I've seen competing covers for "Greatest Hits" from Japan and they're all waaaay expensive so I'm hesitant to buy and get the wrong one. Thanks in advance.

[Bluebrock]

Some good choices here. Most of us agree on the composer being a very bad choice of single. Whatever possessed Gordy to release this?
Moving on to the Scherrie years I always thought the withdrawn "it's all been said before" could have been a radio hit. It was too short as were many of the songs on that album but it was as catchy as hell. Moving onto the next album "your whats missing in my life" was a potential hit and maybe even "don't let my teardrops bother you". I agree that "your the heart of me" was a beautiful song and could have been the groups swansong hit. "driving wheel" was never going to be a big hit and was rightly overlooked in the UK.

I don't think the Jean Terrell years had many overlooked singles but maybe "it's time to break down" or "together we can make such sweet music" and possibly "I wish I were your mirror" could have been a better choice than "touch" which was never a major hit record in my book. It is all well and good looking back 40 -50 years later offering opinions. Maybe the vaults still hold some previously unreleased gems?

[luke]

Never could get into Its all been said before but like your other choices. I think Loving Country could have been a hit, certainly instead of Everybody's Got the Right To Love.

[supremester]

I've always loved EGTRTL - I'm crazy about Jean's vocal and M&C sound appropriately gauzy ..... the single did MUCH better on Cashbox than Billboard like 22-19-15-14-14 then dropped. Much better than peaking at 21 on Billboard. In fact most of JMC. Ross, Gladys 45s from 70-71 did a lot better on Cashbox and Record world.

[supremester]

LOVE it - thanks for the smiles. I prefer "stuffing leg of lamb" or "chocking on a pork neck bone" [[as I do once a week at a Koren Soup place here) The song also suffers because it just can't compete with Love Child. I think you're right about the jam - it has a ring of corn to it, but the rest is SO heavy handed - Yes, we get it, she's poor - that could be said in half the time and make another verse about their relationship so it's not so graphically unpleasant. The almost cloying melody and track are OK, but not the exciting, building, climaxing, building climaxing treat that is Love Child. Still, Shame did get to #8 on both RW & CB, both sales related charts - so it connected well enough.
The thread on Mary Wilson's Opinions of the Worst Supremes Songs has led me to reconsider "I'm Living In Shame".

It strikes me that this song has been unfairly maligned mainly owing to the inclusion of the infamous couplet: "Came the telegram, Mama passed away while making homemade jam". Would everyone rather she had passed away while "eating eggs and ham" or "stuffing neck of lamb"? Maybe you would have all preferred "Heard on the telephone, Mama passed away while she was all alone" or perhaps "through choking on a bone".

The whole point is that her mother died while performing a completely random and insignificant part of her daily life. A similar circumstance could happen to each and every one of us.

For all I know about what's going to happen, it could pan out that "144man's death, Came just while he wrote a post to SDF".

[florence]

I've always loved EGTRTL - I'm crazy about Jean's vocal and M&C sound appropriately gauzy ..... the single did MUCH better on Cashbox than Billboard like 22-19-15-14-14 then dropped. Much better than peaking at 21 on Billboard. In fact most of JMC. Ross, Gladys 45s from 70-71 did a lot better on Cashbox and Record world.

At that stage both Cashbox and Record World were compiled on sales only as opposed to Billboard's large element of airplay.

[supremester]

Yes, and it shows that Motown didn't have the muscle many claim. Look at how much better JMC & Ross early singles did sales wise - especially Reach Out & Touch #9/#10 imagine if Motown had real muscle, it should have gone top 5 instead on #20 in Billboard. Ditto Nathan Jones the numbers are there to support it going 10 points higher on BB.

Oddly, all 3 have Endless Love #1 for 9 weeks. I still don't get that song's mega love.

[arr&bee]

I'm gonna go waaaaay back to the beginning with a great little thing called[the tears] written by smokey, mary on lead recorded with four supremes[hi barbara]during the early sixties girl group craze,had this song been given the right nudge shall we say[hi berry]it would've made some noise for them of course i'm probobly the only one who feels this way and maybe one of the few who even remember this female doo-wop gem.

[REDHOT]

You have posted so much on here smh,please take a break,and you say that you don't like Mary Wilson,from every thing that you post,you sound like a Mary Wilson Fan,it's like,you to try to know,everything about her,you love Mary Wilson lmao

[marv2]

I'm gonna go waaaaay back to the beginning with a great little thing called[the tears] written by smokey, mary on lead recorded with four supremes[hi barbara]during the early sixties girl group craze,had this song been given the right nudge shall we say[hi berry]it would've made some noise for them of course i'm probobly the only one who feels this way and maybe one of the few who even remember this female doo-wop gem.


There is this college radio station in NY that use to play "The Tears" every weekend in the early 2000s. It is a classic example of girl group doo wop.

[marv2]

You have posted so much on here smh,please take a break,and you say that you don't like Mary Wilson,from every thing that you post,you sound like a Mary Wilson Fan,it's like,you to try to know,everything about her,you love Mary Wilson lmao

Why doesn't he like Mary Wilson? She's great!

[REDHOT]

Hes just pretendin' he doesn't like Mary,because he follow everything on Mary,seem to think he knows her whole life story,if i didn't like,a singer or a group,i couldn't tell you anything about them,because i don't follow them,i could care less about them,he loves Mary Wilson,he can't stop postin' things about her lmao

[arr&bee]

Umm is this addressed to me??? I love mary,always have.

[REDHOT]

No arr&bee,not you.

[arr&bee]

Ok,i'm out.

[bradsupremes]

Yes, and it shows that Motown didn't have the muscle many claim. Look at how much better JMC & Ross early singles did sales wise - especially Reach Out & Touch #9/#10 imagine if Motown had real muscle, it should have gone top 5 instead on #20 in Billboard. Ditto Nathan Jones the numbers are there to support it going 10 points higher on BB.

Oddly, all 3 have Endless Love #1 for 9 weeks. I still don't get that song's mega love.

Exactly! "Forever Came Today" went to #13 on Cashbox, yet #28 on Billboard. In fact, basically all of the Supremes singles charted higher on Cashbox than they did on Billboard.

[Bluebrock]

Exactly! "Forever Came Today" went to #13 on Cashbox, yet #28 on Billboard. In fact, basically all of the Supremes singles charted higher on Cashbox than they did on Billboard.
I'm from the UK so please forgive me if this is a silly question but did Cashbox derive their chart placings from a combined sales/airplay or was it strictly down to sales?
I have never taken much notice of Cashbox but now I am quite curious as to how they compared with the Billboard chart.

[westgrandboulevard]

Bluebrock, I was reading Bradsupremes' post, and thinking exactly the same, then saw yours....am also wondering why Billboard always seemed to be the chart to which most attention was paid...

[supremester]

CashBox was Sales only until the late 70's. The comparisons are amazing in some instances. In fact, I spent several hours with a BFF doing comparisons of BB/CB/RW just yesterday. Fascinating and illuminating. The most amazing thing of all to me: Endless Love #1 9 weeks on all 3 charts - that's amazing statistic wise, but also cuz the record doesn't do a thing for me and never has.

[supremester]

rr&bee [[http://soulfuldetroit.com/member.php?7355-arr-amp-bee) http://soulfuldetroit.com/images/statusicon/user-offline.png
I'm gonna go waaaaay back to the beginning with a great little thing called[the tears] written by smokey, mary on lead recorded with four supremes[hi barbara]during the early sixties girl group craze,had this song been given the right nudge shall we say[hi berry]it would've made some noise for them of course i'm probobly the only one who feels this way and maybe one of the few who even remember this female doo-wop gem.




I agree with you that The Tears had strong potential. It needed a remix, better mastering and perhaps a fix on the middle 8, but, the song itself is solid and Mary nails it perfectly - very radio friendly IMHO - good call! Berry had nothing to nudge with in '61, but it could have built on it's own volition. NOTHING could have saved I Want a Guy, but Hes 17, Time Changes Things, You Bring Back Memories all were radio friendly B sides - much more so than their A sides.

Also, Baby don't Go would have had a great shot at radio with just a bit of help on fleshing out the bg. The intro is just OK, but a slightly stronger production could have hit. The song is ideal and Mary's vocal is spot on for '61-'62 radio.

I firmly believe The No Hit Supremes were no hit because of QC - not because they didn't have material.

[florence]

CashBox was Sales only until the late 70's. The comparisons are amazing in some instances. In fact, I spent several hours with a BFF doing comparisons of BB/CB/RW just yesterday. Fascinating and illuminating. The most amazing thing of all to me: Endless Love #1 9 weeks on all 3 charts - that's amazing statistic wise, but also cuz the record doesn't do a thing for me and never has.

Reach Out And Touch, Remember Me and Last Time I Saw Him were all top 10 on both CB and RM plus Nathan Jones.

But it wasn't always consistent. I Thought It Took A Little Time reached #47 on BB before it was pulled in favour of Love Hangover but only #60 on CB and didn't even make the RM Top 100.

In later years some of Diana's lesser hits were going higher on BB.

Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right spent 5 weeks on the CB chart reaching #84 so presumably it must have been selling a few copies.

There were always rumours that positions could be bought on BB and it was thought that Berry Gordy may have done so for It's My Turn as part of his campaign to keep Diana at Motown - it was #9 and in the BB top 10 for several weeks yet interestingly only made #20 on CB.

[supremester]

Well, every Diana Ross fan had to buy Sorry - it was new AND Michael Masser! BB gave it a mention, so all the fans new of it but it was hardly going to get on radio with it's horrifying countryness. now, it's among my ab faves of her career.

It's My Turn baffles me. I watched the adds at the time and they were staggered - I think because it came out so soon with both Upside Down and I'm Coming out in the top 10 with all three winding up in the top 30 together - a lot of stations wouldn't add a third Ross record, so many waited until Upside Down dropped off and created a strong sales record overall without a peak. Anyway, it'a theory. I know in RDU area, it sold fast and hard - burning through all the picture sleeves before Thanksgiving, yet it didn't get added in Portland until after Christmas.

I love all these chart facts. I used to try to predict where records would hit and its nice to know that some of my failures [[The Ross 3, Nathan, If i Were Your Woman, I'm Gonna Make You love Me, Stoned Love) all sold better than BB would have us believe.

[supremester]

I know it's been said that BB could be bought, but why wouldn't BG have sold a kidney to get Reach out & Touch to at least top 5?