What happened to IF mary ,flo lead supremes would be successful thread 2

[honest man]

Hello again lovely people what happened to the thread,Let Me Guess ,the same instigator had a Big PART Of it, could some one send me private email and let me know save playing into his hand again,thank you.cheers

[blackguy69]

I think it's safe to say that this should end now before the same drama unfolds again.

[honest man]

I DON'T, Is that the answer to this forum these days i contribute to SDF threads and it should work both ways to responses ,not copping out off situations when a member gets some retribution for his-her cowardly remarks, i asked a question why it was closed yet again,not for people to shout it down before it has started THANK YOU VERY NOT MUCH.

[Lulu]

Here...on a happy note! Enjoy your Monday.
xo

8318

[honest man]

I think it's safe to say that this should end now before the same drama unfolds again.

BY THE WAY WHAT IS THE DRAMA THING.this is a MOTOWN FORUM. GET REAL.

[ralpht]

I put the question of deleting the thread to the members. Enough said to 86 it. Which I did...gladly.

[honest man]

Goodnight,

[ralpht]

Lol.........

[144man]

My father used to say, "If you ask a stupid question, you get a stupid answer", so here's another one: If Arch -Duke Franz-Ferdinand hadn't been assassinated in 1914, would the First World War have taken place?

[drlorne]

I agree with previous member ..end it now

[144man]

THE END [[hopefully!)

[ralpht]

This is like deja vu all over again...

[LadyLola]

Goodnight,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxBfukKmATo

[Lulu]

This is like deja vu all over again...

NOW there's a good song!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2t0KtdVVI0

[thanxal]

My father used to say, "If you ask a stupid question, you get a stupid answer", so here's another one: If Arch -Duke Franz-Ferdinand hadn't been assassinated in 1914, would the First World War have taken place?
No but the Andantes would have been clearly heard singing in the background.

[midnightman]

^ You sure it wasn't the Love Tones with their voices altered? :)

[144man]

^ You sure it wasn't the Love Tones with their voices altered? :)

Of course, if you accept the quantum Theory of Parallel Worlds, there does indeed exist a world where that exists somewhere in the multiverse. We just, however, don't happen to be living in that particular reality:)

[Lulu]

Of course, if you accept the quantum Theory of Parallel Worlds, there does indeed exist a world where that exists somewhere in the multiverse. We just, however, don't happen to be living in that particular reality:)

Here here! Perhaps it's on the same planet where The United States of England won the war against America and Abraham Lincoln assassinated President John Wilkes Booth!

[antceleb12]

Here...on a happy note! Enjoy your Monday.
xo

8318

Thank you, Lulu. Beautiful picture. I assume this is from their tour of Asia in 1966, is that correct? Where did you find this?

[144man]

Here here! Perhaps it's on the same planet where The United States of England won the war against America and Abraham Lincoln assassinated President John Wilkes Booth!

Yes, Lulu, that's one of the countless number of worlds where you find international success as lead singer of the Supremes!

[Lulu]

Yes, Lulu, that's one of the countless number of worlds where you find international success as lead singer of the Supremes!

Who? Me? A skinny girl from Michigan by way of New York? :)

[Lulu]

Thank you, Lulu. Beautiful picture. I assume this is from their tour of Asia in 1966, is that correct? Where did you find this?

A friend who works at the Motown Museum shared it...let me find out!

[144man]

Who? Me? A skinny girl from Michigan by way of New York? :)

Anything that can happen will happen:)

[Lulu]

Anything that can happen will happen:)

I sure do hope so...as "Anna Mae" said..."I'm the new singah, mama!!!" LOL!

[jobeterob]

You gotta love it! In the new Motown Encyclopedia, the author says Diana is not to blame for any negativism toward her, nor are the other Supremes.

He says it was caused by the fans breaking into factions!

Excellent and true.

[Hotspurman]

You gotta love it! In the new Motown Encyclopedia, the author says Diana is not to blame for any negativism toward her, nor are the other Supremes.

He says it was caused by the fans breaking into factions!

Excellent and true.


Well it is true, isn’t it? That was also the most tactful way I could think of putting it.

Can I just say, when I first joined up here at Soulful Detroit, I was rather under the impression that I was connecting with lots of like-minded Motown fans. The almost constant bickering, petty comments and sometimes outright hostility from certain members, almost always concerning The Supremes, has often resulted in me giving the site a miss for a few days, hoping that when I return the temperature has cooled.
Frankly, I see more grown up behaviour when I pass the local infant school in the morning.

[144man]

That's because a lot of us have reached our second childhoods:)

[jobeterob]

You did a superb job of being succinct and to the point and sidestepping the nonsense. It has nothing to do with Mary or any other Supreme or Diana ~ it has to do with a few stupid, obsessed fans with no life. [[Ooops, that is making it more dramatic than you did)!

You reminded me of Berry Gordy in his book talking about Diana being the lead singer: I thought Diana had it and Mary didn't. No more discussion, no drama, it was his company and his group and the decision was made and over.

[soulster]

Amazing! The moderator shuts down a thread about the same damn thing, and yet up pops up another one! And, then you guys proceed to argue in it...AGAIN!

The obsessed, disturbed Supremes/Ross fans here are unbelievable, and the main reason a lot of longtime members no longer post here, or have left. Instead of it being a valuable resource for information about Motown, Detroit music, and soul music in general, it's a constant Supremes/Ross-fest. Some of you seriously need professional help!

[144man]

I only see a discussion, not an argument.

[Lulu]

You gotta love it! In the new Motown Encyclopedia, the author says Diana is not to blame for any negativism toward her, nor are the other Supremes.

He says it was caused by the fans breaking into factions!

Excellent and true.

OK, I'm usually pretty defensive of Gordy BUT I have to take this "Encyclopedia" with a grain of salt considering DIONNE WARWICK is on the cover...WHAT, pray tell does she have to do with MOTOWN?

8324

[144man]

OK, I'm usually pretty defensive of Gordy BUT I have to take this "Encyclopedia" with a grain of salt considering DIONNE WARWICK is on the cover...WHAT, pray tell does she have to do with MOTOWN?



Hotspurman has admitted the error and is trying to get the cover changed.

[soulster]

I only see a discussion, not an argument. The point is that the obsessed fans are persistent in discussing the same old things year after year. It's crazy!

Ralph has said that he couldn't outright ban Supremes talk because they are part of Detroit and Motown history, but I think he should do it temporarily, until further notice.

[ralpht]

You may have something there, soulster.

[mowsville]

Soulster your last 2 posts are spot on...this is my second stint as a member and im seriously thinking of going again..this site is going to end up with nothing but bitter Supremes fans slogging it out day after day going over the same questions day after day....thread after thread after thread.

[mysterysinger]

Give The Supremes their own forum and keep Motown for the rest [[not including Dionne Warwick lol).

[skooldem1]

Oh god. Here we go again.......

[Lulu]

Soulster your last 2 posts are spot on...this is my second stint as a member and im seriously thinking of going again..this site is going to end up with nothing but bitter Supremes fans slogging it out day after day going over the same questions day after day....thread after thread after thread.

A bit of advice to the Ross/Wilson/Supremes fans:

Facebook has NUMEROUS Diana Ross Groups along with Mary Wilson Groups and Supremes Groups. The conversations are civil for the most part as the moderators simply do not allow for any of the bickering. With a wider range of topics here, I know it's difficult for Ralph to monitor every single post but over on Facebook, it's a more controlled setting and most of the groups are CLOSED which means you must be approved for access.

Example: The two Diana Ross groups I belong to, ya don't mention Mary Wilson or the other Supremes or anything remotely "dramatic". Ya do? Ya get a warning. Do it again, your'e banned - it's that simple.

I just think "fans" should migrate over there and get their jollies off posting pictures of Mary at the Kentucky Derby in the "Mary Wilson Group" or Evan's wedding updates in the "Diana Ross" group.

Now, I know I've been guilty of acting like a damn deputy here every time certain facts are muddied by flat out biased opinions BUT I've taken Ralph and soulster's comments into consideration over the last week or so and as of now, Lulu is bowing out of any Diana Ross/Supremes threads. I have much more to offer the group with regards to the music and the other artists which don't get enough attention here. That being said, I'm reserving my "Supremes" posts for Facebook.

[ralpht]

LuLu,
Good for you regarding bowing out. Its a shame it has to come to that, but I'm hoping you start a trend and more follow and THEN I can omit any Supremes threads from the forum. [[Like that will really happen)
But maybe you will help others become more self aware of the idiodicy that comes off those threads in the name of music.

[Lulu]

LuLu,
Good for you regarding bowing out. Its a shame it has to come to that, but I'm hoping you start a trend and more follow and THEN I can omit any Supremes threads from the forum. [[Like that will really happen)
But maybe you will help others become more self aware of the idiodicy that comes off those threads in the name of music.

It won't change a thing BUT for me, it's a huge weight lifted. Look, when you have a female artist who is that big in stature be it Ross, Streisand, Cher or Whitney,Mariah,Madonna or Britney,GaGa,or Kati Perry, this kind of stuff ALWAYS comes up among the fans and detractors. Throw in the added element of myth that The Supremes history has enough alleged drama to make Peyton Place and Knots Landing look like documentaries and you've got a recipe for disaster!

[soulster]

What motivates these Supremes/Ross fans? What is the pathology that drives them to obsess about these women in particular? I've been clued in on some of it, which will upset them if I say it, but isn't liking the music enough?

I love The Beatles' music, and what the band collectively stood for, but it stops there. I don't spend my waking hours obsessing over every aspect of their personal lives and their interpersonal conflicts.


The opposite of staying out of these Supremes/Ross/Wilson threads is to hijack all of them with, say, sports talk. Frustrate them to the point where they finally give up.

[Lulu]

What motivates these Supremes/Ross fans? What is the pathology that drives them to obsess about these women in particular? I've been clued in on some of it, which will upset them if I say it, but isn't liking the music enough?

I love The Beatles' music, and what the band collectively stood for, but it stops there. I don't spend my waking hours obsessing over every aspect of their personal lives and their interpersonal conflicts.


The opposite of staying out of these Supremes/Ross/Wilson threads is to hijack all of them with, say, sports talk. Frustrate them to the point where they finally give up.

Well, what was said above is partially true: the fans have created this divisive environment. The ladies themselves had less to do with it than what you'd think based on what you read here and on other sites. I've raised a few points in other threads. I'm answering your questions based on my observations because you asked and then I'm out for good:

1. Diana Ross has always been controversial particularly among black women. Her voice and "look" has always strayed from the norm of what is expected. Again, she succeeded at rocket speed and launched an extremely successful global solo career while more "authentic" black girls' careers languished. Bettye LaVette is a good example. She also married two white men which, to many, is the ultimate betrayal.

2. Florence Ballard died penniless and again, folks resent Diana Ross. Ballard was on welfare while Ross was in Rome filming her second film...draped in fur and diamonds.

3. Motown 25: Diana Ross allegedly "pushed" Mary Wilson. That incident, while it predates the Central Park Concert, got a lot of wheels turning.

4. Dreamgirl: Mary's book, while not AS harsh as some make it out to be, paints Diana Ross as a narcissistic overly ambitious character who clawed her way to the top without little regard for where she came from or who she apparently trampled over to make it in the business.

5. Return To Love: This was basically the nail in the coffin and I'm not even going to begin to get into it as it's been discussed AD NAUSEUM for the last 15 years.

Those are just a few of my observations. Feel free to chime in but I'm out!

[skooldem1]

What I find ironic is all the threads that have nothing to do with Diana or the Supremes, and people who claim to not be "fanatics" always find a way to bring them up. The ones that often complain about them, bring them up for no reason. I will start to note the offenders when it happens from now on.

[soulster]

I feel like if I reply that i'll fan the flames. What you wrote is not what I was getting at, but, here goes anyway:




1. Diana Ross has always been controversial particularly among black women. Her voice and "look" has always strayed from the norm of what is expected. Again, she succeeded at rocket speed and launched an extremely successful global solo career while more "authentic" black girls' careers languished. Bettye LaVette is a good example. She also married two white men which, to many, is the ultimate betrayal. I do not understand why Black women would care. Most Black men never looked at Ross as any kind of sex symbol. However, Gay Black men might be a different story. There. I said it.

You do bring up a point that it is very rare that a Black woman has maintained long-lasting star status. Tina Turner, Beyonce, Pointer Sisters, Natalie Cole, and Rihanna are about the only ones I can think of. I don't know of any Black women who have a problem with them.


2. Florence Ballard died penniless and again, folks resent Diana Ross. Ballard was on welfare while Ross was in Rome filming her second film...draped in fur and diamonds. We all know about Ross' narcissism, and how the two were childhood friends, but, at the risk of sounding cold, Ross had no responsibility to financially prop up Ballard. And, why does Wilson not get criticized for not helping her?


3. Motown 25: Diana Ross allegedly "pushed" Mary Wilson. That incident, while it predates the Central Park Concert, got a lot of wheels turning.

Yup. Classic Ross behavior. Which makes me wonder why these Ross fans like her?


4. Dreamgirl: Mary's book, while not AS harsh as some make it out to be, paints Diana Ross as a narcissistic overly ambitious character who clawed her way to the top without little regard for where she came from or who she apparently trampled over to make it in the business.

To be fair, that can be said of 90% of everyone in the record business.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I must be in the minority. I like all of the former Supremes. I appreciate each one's contribution to the legacy and the music. I think it is a testament that most of them are still performing today. I advise most of you to listen to Stop! in the name of love when you are ready to post unnecessary negative coments and , well, just stop! Listen to the great music from the Supremes-all of them- and appreciate their supremacy.

[soulster]

I'm not listening to Supremes songs. I'm sick of hearing them after being on this forum. I'll buy some of the Ross RCA remasters, but i'll probably not play them. Besides, I already have three of the Japanese CDs.

[smark21]

I'm always amused how soulster loves to bitch and moan about Supremes threads and obsessive Supremes fans yet he's constantly posting in these threads, saying pretty much the same things over and over again himself. I think Soulster is just bitter because most of the threads he launches are boring and die pretty quickly.

I do get bored with constant repetition of Supremes/Ross debates; but I click on them and blame no one but myself for subjecting myself to them, and sometimes joining in. If one is not interested in such threads, don't click on them and if you do click, don't join in. If you want to other topics to be discussed, then start some threads. But don't get mad if they don't get off the groud or demand that Ralph ban all Supremes threads because not enough members are clicking in and responding to your threads. Members here will click on what they want and participate where they want. And if they feel regret for clicking, so be it, just owe up to the fact that you clicked on something that you ought to know better to click on as Supremes and Ross threads are almost always full of [[at best) passionate debate and [[at worst) down and dirty name calling.

[ralpht]

Well so far this is going okay. Don't make a big deal out of it.

[soulster]

I'm always amused how soulster loves to bitch and moan about Supremes threads and obsessive Supremes fans yet he's constantly posting in these threads, saying pretty much the same things over and over again himself. I think Soulster is just bitter because most of the threads he launches are boring and die pretty quickly.


You guys crack me up! If I repeat myself, it is because some of you are thick in getting the message.

As for my threads being boring, that may be because all you guys do is think of the same things. I brought you the audiophile concept. It may be boring to you, but it is different. I talk about technical things. Again, they may be boring to you, but it's different. I may even talk about politics, but, it's different than what is usually discussed here. My threads are a lot more interesting than what Diana Ross belched while wearing her gown before a 1968 show after they kicked out Ballard. It beats cat fights over who would have made a better lead singer. It beats the hell out of discussing a Ross meltdown at a restaurant.

[supremester]

LIAR! I was there - that was definitely Mary & Cindy, fool!


No but the Andantes would have been clearly heard singing in the background.

[supremester]

I always wonder what motivates people to obsess about Ross/Supremes fans? If y'all ain't interested, or are above such pullaver, what are you doing in this thread and why comment? Cuz you are just like us! Like Miss Ross told Baba Wawa, " Because I'm just like YOU, Barbara!"

Threads don't get hijacked. Try it - I'll help. Folks interested will respond, my guess is that most won't.

Do you think The Islanders' Drive for Five was hijacked by the 2-3-2 format?



What motivates these Supremes/Ross fans? What is the pathology that drives them to obsess about these women in particular? I've been clued in on some of it, which will upset them if I say it, but isn't liking the music enough?

I love The Beatles' music, and what the band collectively stood for, but it stops there. I don't spend my waking hours obsessing over every aspect of their personal lives and their interpersonal conflicts.


The opposite of staying out of these Supremes/Ross/Wilson threads is to hijack all of them with, say, sports talk. Frustrate them to the point where they finally give up.

[supremester]

3. Motown 25: Diana Ross allegedly "pushed" Mary Wilson. That incident, while it predates the Central Park Concert, got a lot of wheels turning.

Yup. Classic Ross behavior. Which makes me wonder why these Ross fans like her?

THIS fan likes her because exactly of that Classic Ross Behavior. Let's see........ Mary enters wearing red instead of the agreed upon color palette and is purportedly snow blinded with coke. She hijacks the song, a sultry, jazzy ballad and begins to sing three times louder than her partners, looking insanely inappropriate hopping around the stage like a flea on a hot griddle and singing the ballad like she does Green River. I guess Miss Ross cooda just stood there in awe of Mary's artistry instead trying to reel her in a bit. Maybe if she had known Mary's unforgivable breeches of professionalism would have her banned for life from all future live Motown Productions, she'd have just sat down and watched.

[144man]

The point is that the obsessed fans are persistent in discussing the same old things year after year. It's crazy!

Ralph has said that he couldn't outright ban Supremes talk because they are part of Detroit and Motown history, but I think he should do it temporarily, until further notice.

These threads may be the same old things to us veterans, but the Forum also has to cater for new and younger members who may not have seen such discussions before. Maybe it would help if newer members were given instructions on how to access the archives, and were asked to study these before starting pointless new threads which do nothing more than cover old ground.

[soulster]

These threads may be the same old things to us veterans, but the Forum also has to cater for new and younger members who may not have seen such discussions before. Maybe it would help if newer members were given instructions on how to access the archives, and were asked to study these before starting pointless new threads which do nothing more than cover old ground.

I agree. But, I think it's more likely these people are simply pathologically obsessed and have a sick need to constantly talk about these singers.

No one is saying they can't talk about them here. We just want them to scale it back. Don't overwhelm the forum with mindless Supremes talk. These people are hell-bent on turning this into a Supremes forum, and they even enlisted a former moderator of a Supremes forum to come here and help them.

The only other thing these people do besides babble on about the Supremes and Diana Ross is bash Marv.

[144man]

I don't know how that's ever going to stop. I guess that too much water has flowed under the bridge to be able to draw a line in the sand, if you can excuse the mixed metaphor. It's just so unpleasant for those not involved.

[thanxal]

LIAR! I was there - that was definitely Mary & Cindy, fool!
If you listen right after the Archduke was shot, you can hear the Andantes mixed ever so low in the background with an audible "ooooh" that was clearly not Mary, Cindy, Flo, Lynda, Scherrie or Susaye. Clearly you're biased against the Archduke because he was in love with Berry.

[supremester]

Mrs. Doris Postle claims there was nothing between the Archduke and Mr. Gordy.......but yes, it's definitely The A's - with, I believe, Barbara Martin.

[supremester]

I seriously don't understand the issue with any topic - assuming it's respectful. I read many, participate in a few and pass on many - but I would never suggest that the forum be censored to just what interests me. Also, as it was mentioned, there are new members, younger members who weren't around for certain discussions. Why must their desire to discuss anything be ignored because it's already been discussed? If it's a rehash that holds no interest for you or me, can we not simply move on without complaining that it's already been talked about? Does it have to be about "us"?? I became active here 2 years ago and tried to find archived discussions with spotty luck. I know of new members who would love to discuss things that have been discussed - I think they should be free to bring them up. My axiom is: throw topics at the wall, the ones that stick, stick.
I don't know how that's ever going to stop. I guess that too much water has flowed under the bridge to be able to draw a line in the sand, if you can excuse the mixed metaphor. It's just so unpleasant for those not involved.

[soulster]

I seriously don't understand the issue with any topic - assuming it's respectful. I read many, participate in a few and pass on many - but I would never suggest that the forum be censored to just what interests me. Also, as it was mentioned, there are new members, younger members who weren't around for certain discussions. Why must their desire to discuss anything be ignored because it's already been discussed? If it's a rehash that holds no interest for you or me, can we not simply move on without complaining that it's already been talked about? Does it have to be about "us"?? I became active here 2 years ago and tried to find archived discussions with spotty luck. I know of new members who would love to discuss things that have been discussed - I think they should be free to bring them up. My axiom is: throw topics at the wall, the ones that stick, stick.
Like I said, no one is really wanting an end to the threads of certain female singers, just that people stop the personal attacks on other members cat-fighting over the singers, and, for my opinion, to ease up on the frequency of the threads about them.

All Ralph wants to do is to stop the personal attacks and insults, baiting, and the nonsense threads about the Supremes women.

[supremester]

To me, your comments such as referring to DR&TS topics/discussions as "babbling" "mindless" "nonsense threads" are not exactly respectful to those who enjoy these topics and might not think of themselves as mindless etc.

Additionally, your statements such as

" these people are simply pathologically obsessed and have a sick need to constantly talk about these singers" are interesting since you seem to enjoy talking about the fans as much as the fans enjoy talking about DR&TS.

Finally, and I mean this with all due respect, it seems quite paranoiac to assume that

" Don't overwhelm the forum with mindless Supremes talk. These people are hell-bent on turning this into a Supremes forum, and they even enlisted a former moderator of a Supremes forum to come here and help them."

Personally, I know on no one who wants to make this a Supremes forum and cannot think of a single reason why anyone would - people who only want to discuss Supremes would do so, but to suggest they would seek to stop, limit or curtail other topics seems implausible and would be a rather extreme reaction.

I think being respectful of everyone includes being respectful of their topics and discussions without denigrating, negatively categorizing or suggesting they are less than. Comments like these can be the seeds that grow into the name calling and insults we are seeking to extricate ourselves from.

[144man]

Whoever started the original thread must have known the trouble it was going to cause.

[sophisticated_soul]

I think being respectful of everyone includes being respectful of their topics and discussions without denigrating, negatively categorizing or suggesting they are less than. Comments like these can be the seeds that grow into the name calling and insults we are seeking to extricate ourselves from.

Gregg I couldn’t agree with you more. Folks on SD who dislike Diana Ross cannot seem to stop themselves from commenting on and/or disrupting any thread about her. It’s just how it is here, sooner or later it gets ugly and that’s it. The sad part is that it takes so few to accomplish that ugliness. I do not need anyone to like Diana Ross as much as I do, but it sure would be nice if folks who didn’t like her just stayed away from threads about her.

I understand why so many people come to SD for information [[release dates etc.) but will not comment or discuss. I admire your willingness to take on the few folks here who have such a completely illogical obsession with Diana Ross fans that they find it necessary to continually tell us how much we should or shouldn’t like her or how much we should or shouldn’t talk about her. Their obsessive need to attempt to control Diana Ross fans and their inability to stay away from Diana Ross threads says everything about their issues and nothing about Diana Ross or her fans. I don’t have the time, desire or energy to defend saying something nice about someone I admire, but that’s me. Again, I admire you and others who cut through that, but it is not in my nature to do so.

Ralph seems to have had his fill of this insanity and I sincerely hope his newly announced policy will encourage respectful discussions that all will feel welcome to participate in. And that remarks like those referenced in your posts will not be considered “interesting” or “informative” and will instead be considered disrespectful and such posters will be shown the door. I believe the policy will work if it applied to everyone equally.

[ralpht]

I'm going to freeze this thread for a while before deleting. I think everyone now understands where I'm going and will hopefully cooperate. I'm not fond of banning people.