Vandella question.

[blackguy69]

I have a question that always wondered about. Were all of the Vandellas signed as artist or was it just Martha and she just hired them. Ive heard Martha said only she was signed. But i also heard Rosland say she was signed along with Annette. The only one i wouldnt think is signed would be Lois as Betty and Sandra was already at motown. any thoughts?

[marybrewster]

I have a question that always wondered about. Were all of the Vandellas signed as artist or was it just Martha and she just hired them. Ive heard Martha said only she was signed. But i also heard Rosland say she was signed along with Annette. The only one i wouldnt think is signed would be Lois as Betty and Sandra was already at motown. any thoughts?

My understanding is that Martha, Roz, Annette, and [[later) Betty were signed to Motown as "Vandellas". Once Betty left [[and replaced with Lois) and once Roz left [[and replaced with Sandy), these were Vandellas of Martha's employ.

It makes you wonder how they got paid. And also makes you wonder: did no one at Motown have any interest/input into this girl group, after 1967?

[bradsupremes]

I'm amazed at how Motown let Martha take control of the group in terms of hiring and firing.

[blackguy69]

Wasn't Sandra still signed as a velvelette when she joined? Was she under contract with them?

[BigAl]

My understanding is that Martha, Roz, Annette, and [[later) Betty were signed to Motown as "Vandellas". Once Betty left [[and replaced with Lois) and once Roz left [[and replaced with Sandy), these were Vandellas of Martha's employ.

It makes you wonder how they got paid. And also makes you wonder: did no one at Motown have any interest/input into this girl group, after 1967?

I'm inclined to think this is the case myself. By 1967, Gordy had pretty much lost interest in the group and probably was happy enough for Martha to manage hiring/firing/payroll/etc. for her Vandellas. He and Martha had a long history of butting heads and we all know the story of his moving the operation to California and not bothering to tell Martha about it.

[midnightman]

I think it went like this in the timeline:

Martha Reeves has always claimed she was trying to get a solo deal with Motown. Apparently she was "done" with the Vels [[the former Del-Phis) so to speak and while they were trying to get a deal on their own [[meaning Gloria Williams, Rosalind and Annette), Martha was doing solo performances. After Mickey Stevenson recognized her, he gave her the card and apparently Mickey told her to show up for a Tuesday or whatever. She thought it was an audition but she "showed up at the wrong time" and ended up doing secretary work.

Then when they needed background work, Martha asked Gloria, Annette and Rosalind to back her up. This was around the time that the Marvin Gaye recordings were done. The recollection I get is that after the success of "Stubborn Kind of Fellow", Motown offered the group a deal. That group being Martha, Gloria, Annette and Rosalind. I think all of them signed a deal together as artists rather than Martha signed to the label. Martha's side of the story was way different from Annette's and Rosalind's, which shows the huge divide between them.

And that whole issue of how they got the name "Vandellas" remains an interesting topic. Martha claims she came up with it, Annette & Rosalind said Berry Gordy had them choose a name out of the box and Martha picked "Vandellas".

The story of Martha and the Vandellas seem to have a lot of holes in it especially when you hear Martha wasn't even the original lead singer...

[motony]

I do not think Gloria was a member of the "Vandellas" .Only Martha Roz & Annette are on Stubborn Kinda Fella...their photo is also on the back of the original Marvin Gaye LP & I met them on the first Motortown Revue tour.

[reese]

Gloria was on the only single issued under the name The Vels. According to Martha, she declined to continue as she had two young children and had no desire to travel out of state, and also because she had just landed a good job with the city of Detroit.

[stingbeelee]

I find it very hard to believe that Motown would have anyone that was a Motown artist not signed to Motown. If I recall, Bobby Taylor stated that he had to sign six contracts before he was put on the Motown roster. Especially after Mary Wells leaving, Berry Gordy made darn sure that everyone had all the contracts signed. Can you imagine if Lois and Sandy wrote a million selling record and they weren't signed to Motown? I can see the fireworks exploding!

[marybrewster]

And that whole issue of how they got the name "Vandellas" remains an interesting topic. Martha claims she came up with it, Annette & Rosalind said Berry Gordy had them choose a name out of the box and Martha picked "Vandellas".

The story of Martha and the Vandellas seem to have a lot of holes in it especially when you hear Martha wasn't even the original lead singer...

Another Motown mystery. It's interesting how Martha, Roz and Nettie recall the choosing of the name "Vandellas". You are right midnightman; Martha has one story, Roz and Nettie have another. Perhaps the "Della Reese" connection made for good conversation? Clearly the Vandellas went along with it; at least until recently.

[marybrewster]

I also get lost in the timeline of Gloria leaving and Martha becoming lead. On the Marvin tracks, were they credited as "the Vandellas" or "Martha and the Vandellas"? Were there ever any singles released as simply "the Vandellas?" Martha has stated that the Vandellas were at her employ; if that's the case, wouldn't Lois have come into the picture much sooner? And if Delphine has been working with Martha since 1980, wouldn't she have been inducted into the RRHoF too? Or is that because she never recorded as a Vandella in the Motown years?

[marybrewster]

Especially after Mary Wells leaving, Berry Gordy made darn sure that everyone had all the contracts signed. Can you imagine if Lois and Sandy wrote a million selling record and they weren't signed to Motown?

Isn't that why the Supremes had such a lull between "Jimmy Webb" and Supremes '75"? Because they couldn't get contracts signed? Berry may not have shown a lot of interest in the Vandellas in the later years, but certainly some one was in charge of overseeing the group, and who Martha was letting in and putting out.

[marv2]

Isn't that why the Supremes had such a lull between "Jimmy Webb" and Supremes '75"? Because they couldn't get contracts signed? Berry may not have shown a lot of interest in the Vandellas in the later years, but certainly some one was in charge of overseeing the group, and who Martha was letting in and putting out.

I don't think there really was anyone overseeing the group in it's last years except Martha. Remember Motown "left" Martha in Detroit when they moved out West.

[reese]

I also get lost in the timeline of Gloria leaving and Martha becoming lead. On the Marvin tracks, were they credited as "the Vandellas" or "Martha and the Vandellas"? Were there ever any singles released as simply "the Vandellas?" Martha has stated that the Vandellas were at her employ; if that's the case, wouldn't Lois have come into the picture much sooner? And if Delphine has been working with Martha since 1980, wouldn't she have been inducted into the RRHoF too? Or is that because she never recorded as a Vandella in the Motown years?

I'm going by memory here, but I think the Vels single with Gloria on lead was released even though she had left the group by that time. The b-side THERE HE IS [[AT MY DOOR) was later re-recorded with Martha on lead.

Unless I'm mistaken, the group was credited as simply "The Vandellas" on the Marvin tracks. They certainly are credited that way on their first publicity photo. Martha's name was added to the billing when the first Vandellas single I'LL HAVE TO LET HIM GO was released. According to the notes of the LIVE WIRE! set from 1993, Berry put Martha's name in the group in case one of the other girls decided to quit.

Re Lois, she had just graduated from high school when Martha chose her to replace Betty, so I don't think she would have been solicited any earlier.

Delphine has never recorded with the group. You have to be a recording member to be inducted into the RRHF.

[marybrewster]

Delphine has never recorded with the group. You have to be a recording member of to be inducted into the RRHF.



Makes perfect sense. Thank you reese.

[144man]

I also get lost in the timeline of Gloria leaving and Martha becoming lead. On the Marvin tracks, were they credited as "the Vandellas" or "Martha and the Vandellas"? Were there ever any singles released as simply "the Vandellas?" Martha has stated that the Vandellas were at her employ; if that's the case, wouldn't Lois have come into the picture much sooner? And if Delphine has been working with Martha since 1980, wouldn't she have been inducted into the RRHoF too? Or is that because she never recorded as a Vandella in the Motown years?

"The Camel Walk" is credited to "Saundra Mallett and the Vandellas", and early copies of the later version by LaBrenda Ben and the Beljeans are credited to LaBrenda Ben and the Vandellas. There is a discussion of the early history of the Vandellas on the Motown Junkies site.

http://motownjunkies.co.uk/2010/08/24/208

The comments at the foot of the page are also of interest.

[Penny]

Martha was madly in love with Berry. She loathed Diana for winning that prize.

Penny
former AVON Rep:cool:

[supremester]

I had heard that, but it seemed.......... well, it just didn't jive with me. Maybe it is true as I keep hearing it. He must have a charm that attracts women - he sure gets enough of them!

We used to get this Avon citrus spray that was just natural oils and was so fresh smelling - I usually don't use scents, but this was great.

[smark21]

Good to see you Penny...former Avon Rep? Is everything OK?

[Penny]

Smark21, thank you for your kind comments. Yes everything is okay. The internet really hurt my AVON sales so I retired from it. I may throw a Mary Kay Cosmetics party at my house once in awhile. Once you've been in the cosmetic business it's hard to give it totally up. Now I will have more time to read about the Supremes here.

Penny:cool:

[midnightman]

I do not think Gloria was a member of the "Vandellas" .Only Martha Roz & Annette are on Stubborn Kinda Fella...their photo is also on the back of the original Marvin Gaye LP & I met them on the first Motortown Revue tour.

I thought I read somewhere that Gloria was on "Stubborn Kind of Fellow" [[the song)?

[midnightman]

I also get lost in the timeline of Gloria leaving and Martha becoming lead. On the Marvin tracks, were they credited as "the Vandellas" or "Martha and the Vandellas"? Were there ever any singles released as simply "the Vandellas?" Martha has stated that the Vandellas were at her employ; if that's the case, wouldn't Lois have come into the picture much sooner? And if Delphine has been working with Martha since 1980, wouldn't she have been inducted into the RRHoF too? Or is that because she never recorded as a Vandella in the Motown years?

I think it's because Delphine wasn't a member during the Motown period. Plus the Vandellas ceased to exist from 1972 until 1979, I think. If I have to take a guess, they weren't credited at all? I don't think they credited background singers on Motown albums then, same with the musicians.

[midnightman]

Isn't that why the Supremes had such a lull between "Jimmy Webb" and Supremes '75"? Because they couldn't get contracts signed? Berry may not have shown a lot of interest in the Vandellas in the later years, but certainly some one was in charge of overseeing the group, and who Martha was letting in and putting out.

BG had no interest in them after the hits dried up, I don't think. His attention was only limited to the ones who kept making money from Motown and for M&V's, that stopped around 1967.

[BayouMotownMan]

You can best believe that no one recorded for Motown without contracts. You had a recording contract and a performance contract. Motown booked its own artists. And as someone said earlier, after losing Mary Wells the way he did, Gordy was even stricter with those contracts.

Likely, like with other groups, each Vandella was signed individually. That way Sandra could go from being a Velvelette to a Vandella in quick time. I think timelines get confused, the ladies were in Martha's employ after Martha left Motown.

Gordy did lose interest in the Vandellas, and even earlier with the Marvelettes because the Supremes were in the stratosphere. It wouldn't serve him to have more than one female supergroup. Also remember, girl groups were harder to keep going because of ever-changing memberships. While Gordy respected and recognized Martha's talent, she was much more difficult than Ross was. Remember, Gordy oversaw Martha's final recordings. While at the time she had the pipes, Martha just didn't have Ross's magnetism and stage appeal.

[smark21]

Smark21, thank you for your kind comments. Yes everything is okay. The internet really hurt my AVON sales so I retired from it. I may throw a Mary Kay Cosmetics party at my house once in awhile. Once you've been in the cosmetic business it's hard to give it totally up. Now I will have more time to read about the Supremes here.

Penny:cool:

I'll look forward to your posts as you're a fun lady to have around here!

[marv2]

Here are the Del-Phi's with Gloria Williams at the top:

[LadyLola]

Martha was madly in love with Berry. She loathed Diana for winning that prize.

Penny
former AVON Rep:cool:

Damn! I was trying to find a good Avon Rep. My feet need some TLC.

[LadyLola]

I'm amazed at how Motown let Martha take control of the group in terms of hiring and firing.

Well at one point she was pretty much the big queen of Motown other than Mary Wells and that D. Ross woman. Sad that Martha is such a hot mess these days.