Rap and it's insidious influence has come to pass.

[jillfoster]

Great article, and 100% spot on.,

http://blackandbrownnews.com/opinion/sharons-stoop/c-delores-tucker-you-were-right-what-you-predicted-has-come-to-pass/

[soulster]

Her first mistake was to lump all rap into the same basket. There are many types of rap, but the only one people focus on is the gangsta rap, which hasn't been popular for a couple of decades now.

Second: the article fails to realize that urban youth were dying in large numbers due to drugs before rap came along. She also fails to recognize that the murder rate has gone down across the board over the last decade.

I will admit that, even though rap has returned to being party music, there isn't a lot of memorable stuff coming out these days.But, people will continue to bash rap, as a genre.

[timmyfunk]

I've learned to bypass any post by jillfoster in terms of rap music. Absolutely unreliable in every sense of the word.

[splanky]

While I have my doubts and questions about the motives of the one who posted the article
to begin with, I enjoyed reading it and understood it nonetheless. Oh, and for the record,
Gangsta Rap didn't really disappear from popularity decades ago. It's aesthetics and tenents
just melded into what is now the hip-hop mainstream. If that hadn't happened most of
the biggest acts today including the "artist" [[plut!) 50 Pennies wouldn't have had a career
at all. I liked quite a bit of early hip hop and still occasionally listen to PE, De La Soul, The
Jungle Bros and others but I have to say it's not a genre I have to hear every day, every month, hell, not even every year anymore. What it is now is mostly garbage. Ignorance
as an art form though virtually everyone is 1) blind to or 2) afraid to say so...Go figure...Please!...I'd rather listen to a tiolet flushing...

[soulster]

I like a little gangsta rap of old [[Ice Cube, Easy-E, Snoop Dogg, NWA), and I don't mind hearing some X-rated rap by the likes of 2-live Crew. But, it didn't do any more damage to society than, say, death metal. And, I dig Eminem and Nicki Minaj.

Once in a while, a new rap song comes out that I like, but it's not anything I would seek out to hear. I have no use for Kendrick Lamar or Lil' Wuss...uh Lil' Wayne.

[jillfoster]

While I have my doubts and questions about the motives of the one who posted the article
to begin with, I enjoyed reading it and understood it nonetheless. Oh, and for the record,
Gangsta Rap didn't really disappear from popularity decades ago. It's aesthetics and tenents
just melded into what is now the hip-hop mainstream. If that hadn't happened most of
the biggest acts today including the "artist" [[plut!) 50 Pennies wouldn't have had a career
at all. I liked quite a bit of early hip hop and still occasionally listen to PE, De La Soul, The
Jungle Bros and others but I have to say it's not a genre I have to hear every day, every month, hell, not even every year anymore. What it is now is mostly garbage. Ignorance
as an art form though virtually everyone is 1) blind to or 2) afraid to say so...Go figure...Please!...I'd rather listen to a tiolet flushing...

What doubts about motives? My motivation mainly comes from the intense love I had for soul music as a young person, and how it was commandeered and shoved out of the spotlight by something that started innocent enough, but evolved into a degrading, cancer on society. When I was a child and teenager, I looked forward to a lifetime of wonderful soul music to come my way, and be right there for the taking like it was in 1975, 1985. But now I have to look in corners and tops of closets, and scrounge for crumbs for something that should be out there in the mainstream for everyone to love. I'm sad and angry because popular black music is a cake that's been left out in the rain.

[splanky]

But, it didn't do any more damage to society than, say, death metal.
Hip hop as it has existed for the last 20 or so years has done more damage than most will
admit. It co-opts it's orignal people. It glorifies violence, breeds ignorance and destroys black cultural contributions in various ways, one is of reducing prominent expression to
samples or soundbites. It desensitizes people to participating in the most disgusting
behavoir and encourages them to look at acts that would have been considered cruel,
crude or not acceptable public actions as a societal norm.The level of negative incidents
in the day to day life in places where hip hop is king is not coincidental...Hip hop needs to change or I will celebrate it's death....

[thomas96]

The only rap I've ever liked was Fresh Prince & Jazzy Jeff and CL Smooth. Clean and actually interesting, with real instruments being used.

[destruction]

Gansta Rap has had its moments.....but from what I've been reading the past month, there's a lot more insidious influences than gansta rap that's affecting black culture.

[soulster]

Splanky, we'll just have to agree to disagree. We both have our opinions. Gangsta rap was the symptom, not the problem.

There's room in the world for all types of music. To even have the idea to eradicate an art form is dangerous and is fascist in nature.

[soulster]

Gansta Rap has had its moments.....but from what I've been reading the past month, there's a lot more insidious influences than gansta rap that's affecting black culture.

If you mean partisan politics, I think you are right. There are bigger things to worry about.

[nysister]

While I have my doubts and questions about the motives of the one who posted the article
to begin with, I enjoyed reading it and understood it nonetheless. Oh, and for the record,
Gangsta Rap didn't really disappear from popularity decades ago. It's aesthetics and tenents
just melded into what is now the hip-hop mainstream. If that hadn't happened most of
the biggest acts today including the "artist" [[plut!) 50 Pennies wouldn't have had a career
at all. I liked quite a bit of early hip hop and still occasionally listen to PE, De La Soul, The
Jungle Bros and others but I have to say it's not a genre I have to hear every day, every month, hell, not even every year anymore. What it is now is mostly garbage. Ignorance
as an art form though virtually everyone is 1) blind to or 2) afraid to say so...Go figure...Please!...I'd rather listen to a tiolet flushing...

"50 Pennies".....LOL!

[tsull1]

I agree with Jill Foster, he two posts, and the article. RIP Ms. Tucker, thanks for putting up the good fight.

[soulster]

A fight that will never be won because it is based on a false premise.

[splanky]

A fight that will never be won because it is based on a false premise.

While I've never been a champion of C. Delores Tucker's ideas and opinions and have too
myself as a younger man enjoyed a lot of the stuff from Snoop, Ice Cube, Ice T, NWA, hell
even the Ghetto Boys, I've come to realise the corners that we were painting ourselves into
with our complacency. Anyway, as someone who lives in a predominately white area, excuse me for asking but...how the funk would you know?...
Oh, and Jillfoster, sir, I can only take you at your word on this thread but sometimes you have posted things and comments that makes one wonder...

[soulster]

While I've never been a champion of C. Delores Tucker's ideas and opinions and have too
myself as a younger man enjoyed a lot of the stuff from Snoop, Ice Cube, Ice T, NWA, hell
even the Ghetto Boys, I've come to realise the corners that we were painting ourselves into
with our complacency. Anyway, as someone who lives in a predominately white area, excuse me for asking but...how the funk would you know?...
Er...i'm an army brat. Being an army brat exposes you to all walks of life, including scores of Black "city" folk.

[splanky]

Er...i'm an army brat. Being an army brat exposes you to all walks of life, including scores of Black "city" folk.

Oh, I forgot that aspect of your upbringing. Still I have to say as an ex-army soldier I know
passing through any city, town or suburb is not the same as living there for a time. Also, a
lot of the places where I've seen plenty of the foolishness I'm talking about were in the
country or as some folks are actually proud to call it "The Dirty South". You have people
whose parents bought or built houses and owned property fronting like grew up in a ghetto
housing project. The older I get the more I tire of this bullshit. We've always had raunchyness in music and as a Funkadelic fan for life I can't say I'm pro-censorhip."Nasty
can't be void" George Clinton once said but even the Funk Mob knew how to just grab the
girls and guitars and go out and just put on a good show when the venue called for it...

[soulster]

That raunchiness repulsed me back in the late 80s, but, I warmed up to it over time. I had some early rap, and artists like Kool Moe Dee.

The first time I heard this gangsta stuff was from a Too Short tape I found among my niece's things one day. I was curious, so I played it, and all I can remember of it was "Bitch better have my money!". I threw it away. I doubt she ever missed it. She was hanging around some gangsta thug soldiers at that time and was deep into that shyit. A few years later, I started hearing a lot of stuff about this Sista Soulja on TV talk shows. Phil Donahue, I think. So, I went out and bought a tape of hers to see what it was all about, and I was mildly surprised to see it on Epic Records, given the controversy. Throughout the whole thing, it was nothing but blaming "whitey" for all the world's problems. I rejected that too, and threw it in the garbage. But, I did warm up to 2-Live Crew, Public Enemy, and NWA. I saw the first as just comedy, like Blowfly back in the 70s, the second one as militant, and the third one as expressed anger. I started to understand what this third generation of rap was all about. It was more than partying and bragging. It was an extension of "The Message" from Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five...in yo face! It was supposed to be alarming and offensive to get middle America's attention. Didn't quite work out the way it was supposed to, though. White America wanted it censored, and white kids from the suburbs embraced the worst parts of it. The real gangstas just listened to it as a backdrop.

We already had Tone-Loc, MC Hammer, and [[god, help us) Vanilla Ice, But, after that golden period in the early 90s, the labels couldn't help but manipulate the system for fun and maximum profit. That was when rap became a "product" and lost any real meaning and purpose it may have had. Then came the gang wars that took out 2-Pac, and a few of them went to prison, some of them numerous times. Rap ceased to be important. This is why I say that rap didn't damage or destroy anything. If there hadn't been rap, it would have been something else. People were doing and dealing dope, beating women, and killing before rap started, it's still happening, and it will keep happening. Rap isn't any more harmful than the black metal white boys listen to.

Eminem is the biggest rapper ever, but he's White, and no one's shoving their dead wives in a car trunk and raping their mom because of his raps. Sickos were doing all that before the dude was ever born.

I don't believe in censorship. Censorship is dangerous, even more dangerous as the filth people spew. In order to have our freedom of speech, we have to tolerate those we don't like.

[splanky]

First of all let me say that Lisa Williamson publicly known as Sister Souljah came through
Public Enemy. She was first introduced on Terminator X's" solo "project on the track
Buck Whylin'. Yes, she was very vocal and maybe even sometimes bitter at the history
of white oppression of black people as were many others in and out of the music business.
Why aren't you angry? she would ask. But Lisa has grown to be one of the most intelligent
young black celebrities, a real activist and an accomplished best selling author. I generally
consider most so called "urban lit" to be a waste of my time but I love Lisa's books.
Second, I know damn well that people were doing all kinds of dirt pre hip hop, I'm a tad bit
older than you and I've seen a mess of it up close and personal. The thing is hip-hop applauds a lot of it. Words have power and people who say "It's just a song" are kidding themselves. The difference between hip hop and the Metal you keep mentioning is
in a lot of communities people actually believe that the words they are hearing and the ideas behind them DEFINE A WAY TO LIVE. You don't seem to be able to understand that,
like a lot of folks I know. I had a friend one time who I asked why she let her son see her
snorting cocaine. She said "He don't know what this is." Before I walked out of her house
I said "Well, you're teaching him"...He's in and out of jail today....

[soulster]

First of all let me say that Lisa Williamson publicly known as Sister Souljah came through
Public Enemy. She was first introduced on Terminator X's" solo "project on the track
Buck Whylin'. Yes, she was very vocal and maybe even sometimes bitter at the history
of white oppression of black people as were many others in and out of the music business.
Why aren't you angry? she would ask. But Lisa has grown to be one of the most intelligent
young black celebrities, a real activist and an accomplished best selling author. I generally
consider most so called "urban lit" to be a waste of my time but I love Lisa's books.

Ah! yes, NOW I remember! Thanks for the kick in the memory!


Second, I know damn well that people were doing all kinds of dirt pre hip hop, I'm a tad bit
older than you and I've seen a mess of it up close and personal.

Why the attitude? I don't know why you took that personally. And, i'm not that much younger than you, probably less than ten years.


The thing is hip-hop applauds a lot of it. Words have power and people who say "It's just a song" are kidding themselves. The difference between hip hop and the Metal you keep mentioning is
in a lot of communities people actually believe that the words they are hearing and the ideas behind them DEFINE A WAY TO LIVE. You don't seem to be able to understand that,
like a lot of folks I know. I had a friend one time who I asked why she let her son see her
snorting cocaine. She said "He don't know what this is." Before I walked out of her house
I said "Well, you're teaching him"...He's in and out of jail today....

Jeez! How people on this forum can't have a conversation without getting personal about it. I never came after you. Chill!

[splanky]

I'm sorry if you think my motive for my comments is to attack you personally. My issue is
with the current reality in the world, not just America, since hip hop is global now, of
black cultural expression...Let's try this...A hypothetical scenario...We are at a family cookout. Lots of food, lots of refreshments...Folks gathered, remembering times past, kids
playing games. Then someone plays from his/her ipod or whatever a rap song. Lyrics talk
about raping someone's grandmother and her dog and everyone goes on like that's okay...
That's where we are now...Just saying....

[soulster]

I'm sorry if you think my motive for my comments is to attack you personally. My issue is
with the current reality in the world, not just America, since hip hop is global now, of
black cultural expression...Let's try this...A hypothetical scenario...We are at a family cookout. Lots of food, lots of refreshments...Folks gathered, remembering times past, kids
playing games. Then someone plays from his/her ipod or whatever a rap song. Lyrics talk
about raping someone's grandmother and her dog and everyone goes on like that's okay...
That's where we are now...Just saying.... It's just the way you wrote your post. You also assume I don't understand things which is not only not true, but insulting.

[milven]

Speaking of rap, TUPAC recently had a musical open on Broadway called HOLLER IF YA HEAR ME. It got poor reviews and the house is less than half full. And that's with discounted tickets going for an average price of less than forty dollars. I guess, like oil and vinegar, Broadway and rap do not mix.

It will close July 20th

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/193055-Holler-Will-Go-Silent-Tupac-Inspired-Musical-Sets-Broadway-Closing-Date-Amidst-Low-Box-Office-Numbers

[splanky]

Speaking of rap, TUPAC recently had a musical open on Broadway called HOLLER IF YA HEAR ME. It got poor reviews and the house is less than half full. And that's with discounted tickets going for an average price of less than forty dollars. I guess, like oil and vinegar, Broadway and rap do not mix.

It will close July 20th

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/193055-Holler-Will-Go-Silent-Tupac-Inspired-Musical-Sets-Broadway-Closing-Date-Amidst-Low-Box-Office-Numbers

Yes, miliven, I'm aware of this and have mixed emotions about it, though I will say Broadway
and rap may mix again sometime down the road and second they never get anything exactly right anyway, do they?...I, BTW, loved Tupac for the longest time but as young people will
he got confused, distracted and made a series of really bad mistakes trying to get through
his way in life as an artist and public figure. The whole "Thug Life" thing being one of them.
Tu had serious potential and was becoming quite the thespian before he threw it all away
getting caught up in that hip-hop beef pissing contest bullsh*t. It was sad. It didn't have to end like it did...