Bobby Taylor and the Jackson five

[dvus7]

From my understanding, Bobby Taylor has "felt" jilted by the Jackson, based upon his discovery. IMO, Mr. Taylor was compensated above and beyond for "his" discovery!!! Most of the unreleased material of them are they ones that Mr. Taylor produced!!!

[marv2]

From my understanding, Bobby Taylor has "felt" jilted by the Jackson, based upon his discovery. IMO, Mr. Taylor was compensated above and beyond for "his" discovery!!! Most of the unreleased material of them are they ones that Mr. Taylor produced!!!



Oh no, no he hasn't been compensated! It is a tragedy ,abhorration in my opinion. Bobby has never been formally or even informally thanked by any of Jacksons for his contribution in helping them reach fame and fortune!

[dvus7]

@ marv...Are u telling me he ws never compensated for producing all those "covers" that he produced??? The Jacksons are not responsible for paying him..Motown is

[marv2]

@ marv...Are u telling me he ws never compensated for producing all those "covers" that he produced??? The Jacksons are not responsible for paying him..Motown is



Nope! I meant that NONE of the Jacksons has even told Bobby thank you or shown any other form of appreciation once they were in California and hitting it big. This is according to Bobby himself.

[midnightman]

Nope! I meant that NONE of the Jacksons has even told Bobby thank you or shown any other form of appreciation once they were in California and hitting it big. This is according to Bobby himself.

That is true. Bobby told Mojo magazine several years back [[probably 2001, 2002-ish) that one of his daughters had worked with Michael on either some video or some recording and said MJ kept staring at her. Finally the woman approached him and asked "do you know who my father is and how you used to babysit me" or something to that effect. It was then that MJ was all like "oh yeah you're Bobby Taylor's daughter, will you tell him thank you for everything?" When Bobby's daughter told him this, he was stunned to say the least that one of the most famous entertainers in pop music had forgot to thank him in person. Then he remembered Berry Gordy's comments when Gordy told him when the Jacksons became famous, they would forget about him. He [[Gordy) was right apparently.

[midnightman]

@ marv...Are u telling me he ws never compensated for producing all those "covers" that he produced??? The Jacksons are not responsible for paying him..Motown is

There's a difference between being financially compensated and being personally compensated. He got the money, just not the love back from the Jacksons after all he had done for them. Most of them would thank Gladys Knight [[who didn't get them signed to Motown) but you hardly see anything about Bobby Taylor. I don't think they interviewed him for that MJ documentary that came out a few years ago but they were sure to call up Gladys. I think he was only mentioned a few times, if any, by Michael and Marlon but that was back in 1980 when they were interviewed for the "Triumph" album or something. Bobby himself got the Jacksons [[mainly MJ) signed but whenever the Jacksons thank anyone, they thank the one who discovered them but failed to sign them. That's quite ironically sad.

[marv2]

That is true. Bobby told Mojo magazine several years back [[probably 2001, 2002-ish) that one of his daughters had worked with Michael on either some video or some recording and said MJ kept staring at her. Finally the woman approached him and asked "do you know who my father is and how you used to babysit me" or something to that effect. It was then that MJ was all like "oh yeah you're Bobby Taylor's daughter, will you tell him thank you for everything?" When Bobby's daughter told him this, he was stunned to say the least that one of the most famous entertainers in pop music had forgot to thank him in person. Then he remembered Berry Gordy's comments when Gordy told him when the Jacksons became famous, they would forget about him. He [[Gordy) was right apparently.

Midnightman, thank you! That is what I remember hearing Bobby Taylor say in an interview from Hong Kong that was posted here about a year ago.

[marv2]

There's a difference between being financially compensated and being personally compensated. He got the money, just not the love back from the Jacksons after all he had done for them. Most of them would thank Gladys Knight [[who didn't get them signed to Motown) but you hardly see anything about Bobby Taylor. I don't think they interviewed him for that MJ documentary that came out a few years ago but they were sure to call up Gladys. I think he was only mentioned a few times, if any, by Michael and Marlon but that was back in 1980 when they were interviewed for the "Triumph" album or something. Bobby himself got the Jacksons [[mainly MJ) signed but whenever the Jacksons thank anyone, they thank the one who discovered them but failed to sign them. That's quite ironically sad.

And instead of having Bobby Taylor share in their induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, they had Diana Ross do it!

[midnightman]

And instead of having Bobby Taylor share in their induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, they had Diana Ross do it!

Yup. And if I recall, none of them thank him during the Hall of Fame induction. So he was clearly absent. That's why Bobby's pissed.

[marv2]

Yup. And if I recall, none of them thank him during the Hall of Fame induction. So he was clearly absent. That's why Bobby's pissed.

Wouldn't it have been just the greatest moment in the Rock Hall's history to have Bobby there to give an emotion speech with the details of how he help them get signed to Motown?

[midnightman]

Midnightman, thank you! That is what I remember hearing Bobby Taylor say in an interview from Hong Kong that was posted here about a year ago.

Yeah I remember that Hong Kong interview. People may think he's bitter but he has his reasons for that. I'd be upset too if I went through pins and needles [[and broken glass) to get a group of talented kids signed to a label that initially wasn't paying them any attention and all I got was a pat on the back for a job well done. It's one thing to get money but if you don't get respect, what's all that money worth?

[midnightman]

Wouldn't it have been just the greatest moment in the Rock Hall's history to have Bobby there to give an emotion speech with the details of how he help them get signed to Motown?

It surely would've helped a bunch. But see, the Jacksons have forgotten their roots. They only remember something when someone reminds them of it. Michael Jackson surely forgot. He even forgot what age he was and the month it was when they had their legendary audition tape from July 22, 1968 [[he recalled in his biography that he thought the audition was December 1968 at Berry's mansion) and this guy was supposedly intelligent but whenever he was in court, when asked a simple question, this dude was all like "I don't remember..." or "I don't recall..." You'd think if this man was as intelligent, he'd remember simple history like a producer who got them signed when people turned them down. He remembered James Brown coming to his house and giving them advice but when Joseph Jackson tried to get James to get his label to hear their audition tape, he said he "had no time for those noisy kids, I got kids of my own, Mr. Jackson, but thanks anyway." So even MJ's biggest influence didn't think to promote them.

[marv2]

Yeah I remember that Hong Kong interview. People may think he's bitter but he has his reasons for that. I'd be upset too if I went through pins and needles [[and broken glass) to get a group of talented kids signed to a label that initially wasn't paying them any attention and all I got was a pat on the back for a job well done. It's one thing to get money but if you don't get respect, what's all that money worth?

Also to watch someone else get the credit for discovering them in the eyes of the public for years. That myth was even perpetuated in the Jackson 5 cartoon series.

[marv2]

It surely would've helped a bunch. But see, the Jacksons have forgotten their roots. They only remember something when someone reminds them of it. Michael Jackson surely forgot. He even forgot what age he was and the month it was when they had their legendary audition tape from July 22, 1968 [[he recalled in his biography that he thought the audition was December 1968 at Berry's mansion) and this guy was supposedly intelligent but whenever he was in court, when asked a simple question, this dude was all like "I don't remember..." or "I don't recall..." You'd think if this man was as intelligent, he'd remember simple history like a producer who got them signed when people turned them down. He remembered James Brown coming to his house and giving them advice but when Joseph Jackson tried to get James to get his label to hear their audition tape, he said he "had no time for those noisy kids, I got kids of my own, Mr. Jackson, but thanks anyway." So even MJ's biggest influence didn't think to promote them.

Strange how Michael forgot how Bobby let them stay with him at his house/apt. How he fed them. How he [[as well as Bobby Smith of the Spinners) drove them to Detroit the very first time. Why is it I know all of these things, but the Jackson seem not to?

[marv2]

That bullshit story Diana Ross repeated in her concerts for years when doing her "Motown Medley" about and then I was in Gary Indiana and I saw these 5 little boys and I yi,yi, yi.......That shit use to aggrevate me to hear!

[thomas96]

Michael didn't forget about Bobby, or not thank him... Bobby stayed in touch with Michael all the way up to his death, and Michael would call him and ask for advice. On another note, Bobby did not get ANY credit from Motown, or the Jacksons [[publicly, not sure if any other than Michael thanked him or showed appreciation privately or not). And Bobby NEVER got the money he deserved from those productions. He's gotten no royalties on "I Want You Back," "ABC," "The Love You Save," or "I'll Be There" -- all of which he had a part in writing and producing.

[thomas96]

That bullshit story Diana Ross repeated in her concerts for years when doing her "Motown Medley" about and then I was in Gary Indiana and I saw these 5 little boys and I yi,yi, yi.......That shit use to aggrevate me to hear!

Oh man it killed me hearing that, but that was all BG. Whether or not it was necessary in the boys' success, I don't know, but he thinks it was. I just hate all the 'casual' Motown fans who mix up the Temps and Tops songs and then talk about how Diana Ross discovered Michael. When I went to a Ms Ross concert last August, I overheard people talking about how she found Michael and his brothers and then taught them and brought them to Motown. I had to step in and give them a piece of my mind, and the truth!

[stephanie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2HgGwBUkkY

Jermaine did not forget Bobby Taylor or Bobby Taylor watch this! They even remembered the Corporation and Deke Richards.

[marv2]

Stephanie, Marlon did not forget to mention Bobby either here on the Late Show with Arsenio Hall. He mentions Bobby at 4:14 in this clip. The problem is, they never remembered to thank Bobby for anything personally to his face, by letter or over the phone!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y5b-QylPnw

[marv2]

Heck, if I ever become famous, I am thanking everybody from Miss Harste my first teacher to Soulful Detroit! LOL!!!

[midnightman]

^ You always have those people who say "if you ever get famous, don't forget to mention me." Lol Evelyn LaHaie's name doesn't get mentioned much and she's the reason the group became the "Jackson Five".

[jaybs]

People get far too emotional with matters like this, and memories can soon fade, I find it sad when people want to claim, they did or didn't thank me, anything like that I would want keep personal.

[dvus7]

People get far too emotional with matters like this, and memories can soon fade, I find it sad when people want to claim, they did or didn't thank me, anything like that I would want keep personal.

When I started this tread!!! My intentions was to talk about Bobby Taylor being PAID!!! IMO, he ws paid in Full by MOTOWN, for his discovery!!! Motown had close to 400 hundred songs that were produced by Bobby Taylor on the J-5!!!

[midnightman]

Strange how Michael forgot how Bobby let them stay with him at his house/apt. How he fed them. How he [[as well as Bobby Smith of the Spinners) drove them to Detroit the very first time. Why is it I know all of these things, but the Jackson seem not to?

They'd probably excuse it as "oh we were young, we didn't know the details. We were too excited." Not even Jackie, who was roughly 17, can't even remember it.

[midnightman]

Also to watch someone else get the credit for discovering them in the eyes of the public for years. That myth was even perpetuated in the Jackson 5 cartoon series.

Berry Gordy knew how to manipulate the situation. He knew crediting Diana Ross would boost the group [[and it did) but it did leave behind a lot of bitterness.

[midnightman]

When I started this tread!!! My intentions was to talk about Bobby Taylor being PAID!!! IMO, he ws paid in Full by MOTOWN, for his discovery!!! Motown had close to 400 hundred songs that were produced by Bobby Taylor on the J-5!!!

Calm down there. Lol :) Bobby Taylor produced roughly 20 songs on them.

[thomas96]

Calm down there. Lol :) Bobby Taylor produced roughly 20 songs on them.

More like 50-60 all produced in Detroit, and he did co-production work in LA on their first 4 hits, ABC, I Want You Back, I'll Be There, and The Love You Save -- which he didn't get credited for, or paid royalties for.

[thomas96]

When I started this tread!!! My intentions was to talk about Bobby Taylor being PAID!!! IMO, he ws paid in Full by MOTOWN, for his discovery!!! Motown had close to 400 hundred songs that were produced by Bobby Taylor on the J-5!!!

He was paid for the session work ONLY on songs that were released. BG had told Bobby that they had planned to release 3 albums of Bobby's stuff on the J5 and it ended up being about a a dozen and a half songs being released through their first 2 albums instead of what should've been over 30. BG basically dumped Bobby out in the streets, stole the Jackson boys and brought them to LA to record with the Corporation. Bobby co-wrote and co-produced ABC, I Want You Back, The Love You Save, and I'll Be There and didn't get a dime for them, or any credit whatsoever. And even the songs he did write/produce he didn't get any royalties for later on. Bobby got completely screwed over, said "fuck Motown" and left.

[midnightman]

More like 50-60 all produced in Detroit, and he did co-production work in LA on their first 4 hits, ABC, I Want You Back, I'll Be There, and The Love You Save -- which he didn't get credited for, or paid royalties for.

Then in that case, that's even more upsetting... thanks for correcting. Bobby got dissed by everybody smh

[midnightman]

He was paid for the session work ONLY on songs that were released. BG had told Bobby that they had planned to release 3 albums of Bobby's stuff on the J5 and it ended up being about a a dozen and a half songs being released through their first 2 albums instead of what should've been over 30. BG basically dumped Bobby out in the streets, stole the Jackson boys and brought them to LA to record with the Corporation. Bobby co-wrote and co-produced ABC, I Want You Back, The Love You Save, and I'll Be There and didn't get a dime for them, or any credit whatsoever. And even the songs he did write/produce he didn't get any royalties for later on. Bobby got completely screwed over, said "fuck Motown" and left.

Wow. So you mean to tell me that he continued to work for them during the period they found fame and he got screwed out of being credited and paid? Wow. What year did he leave Motown? '72?

[thomas96]

Wow. So you mean to tell me that he continued to work for them during the period they found fame and he got screwed out of being credited and paid? Wow. What year did he leave Motown? '72?

In 1970 before The Love You Save was released he was sent back to Detroit to work on his own career by BG, which then dwindled out because of a lack of promotion, and he left I'd say in early 1971. He got paid very little for the hours he spent in the studio, and made no more money other than that. Then he went and did some work for a couple different labels including Philly International and Playboy. After that, he couldn't find work and had to live with his mother, and around the late '70s he had his first throat cancer surgery. He was in Beijing a couple of years with a studio he opened, and that ended because of some government restrictions, which then led him to Hong Kong, where he still is now. He's had 3 throat surgeries and at 80 is still performing 3 times a week. The man truly deserves to be a star, and in Hong Kong he is treated like one. It's really too bad people in the states didn't appreciate him, or hear his music because of lack of production.

[dvus7]

Then in that case, that's even more upsetting... thanks for correcting. Bobby got dissed by everybody smh

Do you recall the lawsuit that Motown filed and won....A part of those proceeds where what Motown owed Bobby thru the "UNRELEASED" material in Motown's vaults!!Once the producer recorded the song on the artist, the artist was responsible for song!! Remember Motown contracts stipulated that Motown did not have to "release" the material!!! Remember, David Ruffin stating, "that they will make u record and then not release the material"

[marv2]

Wow. So you mean to tell me that he continued to work for them during the period they found fame and he got screwed out of being credited and paid? Wow. What year did he leave Motown? '72?


Um hum, Yeah! Now let's all go see "Motown.....the Musical" doo dah~! LOL!

[marv2]

To add insult to injury, Bobby Taylor was not invited to "Motown 25" nor were he and the Vancouvers even mentioned or had their image shown during the television special........

[smark21]

Poor Bobby Taylor! Why did Berry hate him so much? Did Miss Ross dislike him as well?

[marv2]

Poor Bobby Taylor! Why did Berry hate him so much? Did Miss Ross dislike him as well?

Yes Diane disliked him and he, from his interviews very much disliked her.

[thomas96]

Um hum, Yeah! Now let's all go see "Motown.....the Musical" doo dah~! LOL!

Exactly.. That's why I don't like Motown The Musical. The performers are clearly amazing and it was a fantastic show, but Motown's story does not belong on a couple hour broadway show. Hell, the whole story couldn't even fit in a 1000 page book. All it showed was how "great" BG was. Having the guy playing him sing the songs he wrote for Jackie Wilson... What a joke. Just putting more money into BGs pocket, and re-enforcing the lies!

[thomas96]

To add insult to injury, Bobby Taylor was not invited to "Motown 25" nor were he and the Vancouvers even mentioned or had their image shown during the television special........

And none of the Funks were mentioned, OR important artists like the Marvelettes, Jimmy Ruffin, Edwin Starr, Marv Johnson, the Contours, Gladys & the Pips. James Jamerson had to scalp a damn ticket to see the special. BG didn't give a shit about anyone who helped make Motown happen except Smokey and "Ms. Ross."

[thomas96]

Poor Bobby Taylor! Why did Berry hate him so much? Did Miss Ross dislike him as well?

I wouldn't say BG hated him, I just think he had no feelings towards him whatsoever and just did what was best for himself. I don't know if Ms Ross didn't like him, but she definitely thought she was better than him.

[marv2]

Exactly.. That's why I don't like Motown The Musical. The performers are clearly amazing and it was a fantastic show, but Motown's story does not belong on a couple hour broadway show. Hell, the whole story couldn't even fit in a 1000 page book. All it showed was how "great" BG was. Having the guy playing him sing the songs he wrote for Jackie Wilson... What a joke. Just putting more money into BGs pocket, and re-enforcing the lies!

It is a fairytale full of lies and omissions.................! Do they even mention Esther Gordy at all ?






















1

[marv2]

I wouldn't say BG hated him, I just think he had no feelings towards him whatsoever and just did what was best for himself. I don't know if Ms Ross didn't like him, but she definitely thought she was better than him.

Well Berry had to force her to go and see him and the band at the Cave in Vancouver. According to Bobby, she just sat there through their show frowning and acting bored. If someone did that to her, she'd have a fit! He calls her a "scub"! LOL!

[marv2]

And none of the Funks were mentioned, OR important artists like the Marvelettes, Jimmy Ruffin, Edwin Starr, Marv Johnson, the Contours, Gladys & the Pips. James Jamerson had to scalp a damn ticket to see the special. BG didn't give a shit about anyone who helped make Motown happen except Smokey and "Ms. Ross."

They never mentioned Florence Ballard by name during the broadcast. Mary Wilson did mention her in an impromptu speech that Suzanne DePasse had edited out of the broadcast.

[midnightman]

Do you recall the lawsuit that Motown filed and won....A part of those proceeds where what Motown owed Bobby thru the "UNRELEASED" material in Motown's vaults!!Once the producer recorded the song on the artist, the artist was responsible for song!! Remember Motown contracts stipulated that Motown did not have to "release" the material!!! Remember, David Ruffin stating, "that they will make u record and then not release the material"

Motown treated people like cattle and then disregarded them when they weren't making money for the label. They almost literally force artists to do records with them as a needs of keeping them controlled.

[thomas96]

Well Berry had to force her to go and see him and the band at the Cave in Vancouver. According to Bobby, she just sat there through their show frowning and acting bored. If someone did that to her, she'd have a fit! He calls her a "scub"! LOL!

Exactly, but I wouldn't consider that hating him. That, to me, is a clear example of her thinking she's better than him. I can picture her saying to BG, "Why in the world should I go see those gosh darn losers?" He's called her a whole lot more than a "scrub"!!!

[marv2]

Exactly, but I wouldn't consider that hating him. That, to me, is a clear example of her thinking she's better than him. I can picture her saying to BG, "Why in the world should I go see those gosh darn losers?" He's called her a whole lot more than a "scrub"!!!

I know he has, but in an effort to keep from being excessively attacked by her fans, I will refrain from repeating some of the things Bobby [[and others) have said about her.

[thomas96]

I know he has, but in an effort to keep from being excessively attacked by her fans, I will refrain from repeating some of the things Bobby [[and others) have said about her.

Good decision.

[dvus7]

Poor Bobby Taylor! Why did Berry hate him so much? Did Miss Ross dislike him as well?

@ smark 21...This tread was not started to end up as conversation about Diana Ross!!!!!PLEAE STAY ON TOPIC!!!

[Lulu]

@ smark 21...This tread was not started to end up as conversation about Diana Ross!!!!!PLEAE STAY ON TOPIC!!!

LOL dvus7...doesn't it always turn into a tarring & feathering of Miss Ross? Maybe that's why she wears that key lime feathered coat! Armor!

BTW, LOVE Spectrum's Bobby Taylor 2CD release from a few years back - some really stellar covers and not just the usual 'album filler' --- you can still get it for a good price on an Amazon seller's shops!

[marv2]

@ smark 21...This tread was not started to end up as conversation about Diana Ross!!!!!PLEAE STAY ON TOPIC!!!

There you go Dvus7!!!! Good idea.

[Jimi LaLumia]

it's a dog eat dog world and it ain't no lie..
and in all honesty, the only reason I paid attention to The Jackson 5 at the beginning was thanks to the 'Diana Ross Presents..' thing... me and a million others, so it obviously works.. and MOTOWN: THE MUSICAL is a 'jukebox musical', one of the most successful ever..all the details of who was who means nothing to the average person the audience..they just wanna sing,wanna dance and boo ga loo down Broadway, baybeeeee..

[Jimi LaLumia]

it's a dog eat dog world and it ain't no lie..
and in all honesty, the only reason I paid attention to The Jackson 5 at the beginning was thanks to the 'Diana Ross Presents..' thing... me and a million others, so it obviously worked.. and MOTOWN: THE MUSICAL is a 'jukebox musical', one of the most successful ever..all the details of who was who means nothing to the average person in the audience..they just wanna sing,wanna dance and boo ga loo down Broadway, baybeeeee..

[Lulu]

it's a dog eat dog world and it ain't no lie..
and in all honesty, the only reason I paid attention to The Jackson 5 at the beginning was thanks to the 'Diana Ross Presents..' thing... me and a million others, so it obviously worked.. and MOTOWN: THE MUSICAL is a 'jukebox musical', one of the most successful ever..all the details of who was who means nothing to the average person in the audience..they just wanna sing,wanna dance and boo ga loo down Broadway, baybeeeee..

Yeah, I can't say I would have jumped all over them either without seeing her introduce them on television. It was 45 years ago and business - nowadays record execs would have gladly showcased a lesser-known, earthier artist to do the deed.

As for the musical, I haven't seen it yet but haven't heard anything negative from the MOTOWN folks I keep in touch with - all of them seem pretty happy that it's hit the stage and has been such a success!

[jobeterob]

I wonder if Diana Ross's kid ever look at anything on line like some of these posts.

And see questions raised about a look on their Mother's face 50 years ago. Or a look on someone else's face that is looking at her.

They probably burst out laughing and laugh forever.

No one warrants that kind of adulation and attention; um, obsession I mean.

And parsing what is said, just like a politician looking for a vote ~ way too obsessive.

What is more appropriate is to remember that virtually every Motown artist ever thanks Berry Gordy profusely when asked and they support every other Motown artist as well.

[marv2]

it's a dog eat dog world and it ain't no lie..
and in all honesty, the only reason I paid attention to The Jackson 5 at the beginning was thanks to the 'Diana Ross Presents..' thing... me and a million others, so it obviously works.. and MOTOWN: THE MUSICAL is a 'jukebox musical', one of the most successful ever..all the details of who was who means nothing to the average person the audience..they just wanna sing,wanna dance and boo ga loo down Broadway, baybeeeee..

The only reason we paid attention to the Jackson 5 was because they were GOOD! We loved the song "I Want You Back". Most people hated Diana Ross at the time and could not wait for her to get out of the Supremes, sooooooo.....

Motown, the Musical is a fairytale joke! The average person believes beer is a vegatable so that is not saying much!

[marv2]

I wonder if Diana Ross's kid ever look at anything on line like some of these posts.

And see questions raised about a look on their Mother's face 50 years ago. Or a look on someone else's face that is looking at her.

They probably burst out laughing and laugh forever.

No one warrants that kind of adulation and attention; um, obsession I mean.

And parsing what is said, just like a politician looking for a vote ~ way too obsessive.

What is more appropriate is to remember that virtually every Motown artist ever thanks Berry Gordy profusely when asked and they support every other Motown artist as well.

They don't have to go back 50 years ago to discover that mom can be a very nasty person. All they have to do is read this article from THREE days ago!

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/celebrities/258037421.html?page=1&c=y

[marv2]

Now Jobeterob, if you keep bringing her up in every thread that has nothing to do with her, then I have TONS of glorious stories about "Miss Ross".

[thomas96]

The only reason we paid attention to the Jackson 5 was because they were GOOD! We loved the song "I Want You Back". Most people hated Diana Ross at the time and could not wait for her to get out of the Supremes, sooooooo.....

Motown, the Musical is a fairytale joke! The average person believes beer is a vegatable so that is not saying much!

Marv, I agree with you on so many points, it's crazy. I heard I Want You Back on the radio and I never loved it. Then I got their first album as a gift, and stored it away for a while before taking a listen to it, and once I finally did, oh man. Mikey's little voice is so amazing on every single one of those tracks. I saw them on specials with Ms Ross, but that was not what drew me in, it was Mikey's voice. I also remember hearing a radio interview with Bobby and he was talking about how he had actually discovered the Jackson 5 and the DJ was tearing him apart about it saying he was lying. I believed him then and it's very clear now what the truth is.

And marv, you are also right about Motown the Musical. It's pure Broadway...fairytale broadway. Like you said, the average person would jump off a bridge if everyone else did it.

[marv2]

Marv, I agree with you on so many points, it's crazy. I heard I Want You Back on the radio and I never loved it. Then I got their first album as a gift, and stored it away for a while before taking a listen to it, and once I finally did, oh man. Mikey's little voice is so amazing on every single one of those tracks. I saw them on specials with Ms Ross, but that was not what drew me in, it was Mikey's voice. I also remember hearing a radio interview with Bobby and he was talking about how he had actually discovered the Jackson 5 and the DJ was tearing him apart about it saying he was lying. I believed him then and it's very clear now what the truth is.

And marv, you are also right about Motown the Musical. It's pure Broadway...fairytale broadway. Like you said, the average person would jump off a bridge if everyone else did it.

Thomas, I can remember first seeing them on the Hollywood Palace back in 1969. That appearance had no impact on us. A few months later they appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show and BAM! We all liked them and they knocked us out with "Who's Lovin' You", along with " I Want You Back" that night. The next day they were the talk of the school. Even my mom and dad liked their record. For the next few months following that Ed Sullivan Show, we'd sing "I Want You Back" on the school bus until Betty the bus driver would make us all shut up! LOL!!!!

[Roberta75]

Thomas, I can remember first seeing them on the Hollywood Palace back in 1969. That appearance had no impact on us. A few months later they appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show and BAM! We all liked them and they knocked us out with "Who's Lovin' You", along with " I Want You Back" that night. The next day they were the talk of the school. Even my mom and dad liked their record. For the next few months following that Ed Sullivan Show, we'd sing "I Want You Back" on the school bus until Betty the bus driver would make us all shut up! LOL!!!!

hehehehehehehehehehehe. you tell the funniest story marv2. Betty the bus driver is a real cute title for a childrens book.

Roberta

[marv2]

hehehehehehehehehehehe. you tell the funniest story marv2. Betty the bus driver is a real cute title for a childrens book.

Roberta

My school bus driver Betty from back in the 60's was far from "cute" at about 5'5" 200 lbs dark hair and wore a hairnet, black horn rimmed glasses, massive fore arms , foul mouthed and foul tempered, she easily reminded us of a female prison matron!

[Roberta75]

My school bus driver Betty from back in the 60's was far from "cute" at about 5'5" 200 lbs dark hair and wore a hairnet, black horn rimmed glasses, massive fore arms , foul mouthed and foul tempered, she easily reminded us of a female prison matron!

hehehehehehehehehe even funnier. You should write a book about Betty the bus driver.

[marv2]

hehehehehehehehehe even funnier. You should write a book about Betty the bus driver.


Screw her! But she might be dead already, hehehehehehehe.......

[marv2]

anyway, back on topic. Take away Bobby Taylor's contribution to the Jackson's early success and we may not have ever had "The Jackson 5" or "Michael Jackson's" music to enjoy all these years.

[midnightman]

it's a dog eat dog world and it ain't no lie..
and in all honesty, the only reason I paid attention to The Jackson 5 at the beginning was thanks to the 'Diana Ross Presents..' thing... me and a million others, so it obviously worked.. and MOTOWN: THE MUSICAL is a 'jukebox musical', one of the most successful ever..all the details of who was who means nothing to the average person in the audience..they just wanna sing,wanna dance and boo ga loo down Broadway, baybeeeee..

So I Want You Back didn't immediately hip you to them? LOL

[smark21]

Did Betty the bus driver do Bobby Taylor wrong like Berry and Miss Ross? She sounds tough and mean and I bet she could have taken her bad mood out on Bobby Taylor.

[captainjames]

Having Diana introduce them was one of best idea Motown came up with.

[marv2]

So I Want You Back didn't immediately hip you to them? LOL

Maybe if Joe had dress them in sequins and wigs he would have paid more attention, hehehehehehehe........Clearly the music is not something that would get his attention. "I Want You Back" was a smash from the first time I heard it!

[marv2]

Having Diana introduce them was one of best idea Motown came up with.

I would say pairing Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell up and of course the Motortown Revues in the early 60's were their best ideas.

[marv2]

Did Betty the bus driver do Bobby Taylor wrong like Berry and Miss Ross? She sounds tough and mean and I bet she could have taken her bad mood out on Bobby Taylor.


Luckily we had Mrs. Glover on board as a combination teaching assistant and bus monitor. She could kick Betty's ass if it got that far. LOL! I am certain Betty did not know Bobby Taylor. She did know the guys in Johnny & the Hurricanes [[she bowled with some of them.......that made her a "star") and local tv celeb Johnny Ginger. hehehehehehe........

[captainjames]

This is really weird because I seem to remember a some special with Michael Jackson were Bobby Taylor and Gladys Knight were credited for the discovery and Diana Ross saying "Its True", sooooooooooooooooooooooo what is the deal ?

[jobeterob]

This is really weird because I seem to remember a some special with Michael Jackson were Bobby Taylor and Gladys Knight were credited for the discovery and Diana Ross saying "Its True", sooooooooooooooooooooooo what is the deal ?

It's sexual excitement is his deal. We all get off on different things.

[captainjames]

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


it's sexual excitement is his deal. We all get off on different things.

[Jimi LaLumia]

the Diana Ross hype PRECEDED the release of the single, and it's that hype that got them booked on Sullivan; many Motown acts had hits and never got near Ed's stage; if not for Diana Ross, the J5 would have been just another r&b group with a few hits... but then , without Diana Ross, Mary Wilson would be working 'that' street corner for spare change..oh wait, I forgot, she's already doing that, isn't she!.hehehehehehehahahahaha etc

[thomas96]

the Diana Ross hype PRECEDED the release of the single, and it's that hype that got them booked on Sullivan; many Motown acts had hits and never got near Ed's stage; if not for Diana Ross, the J5 would have been just another r&b group with a few hits... but then , without Diana Ross, Mary Wilson would be working 'that' street corner for spare change..oh wait, I forgot, she's already doing that, isn't she!.hehehehehehehahahahaha etc

Sorry but I can't even come close to seeing your point. Without Ms Ross the Jackson 5 would have had the exact same outcome in the end. You may be so in love with her that she's the only reason you like them, but most of the country/world at the time didn't care one bit about her when it came to the Jackson boys. They liked their music and thought the little child up front was cute. If you want to play this whole "if not for..., then..." game, there's a whole lot that can be said about why Ms Ross had any success whatsoever.

[Jimi LaLumia]

Gordy put his weight behind The J5 because he thought the 'introduced by Diana Ross' thing would work in her favor with the next breed of teeny boppers... I was around for all this, were you? If Gordy didn't flex Motown muscle, which he did, The J5 would have been The Spinners !..who didn't become THE SPINNERS until they got off of Motown and signed with Atlantic during this same frame..or do you think that groups like The Spinners, who made great records, would have had the same outcome in the end,regardless?..If you do, I'll have whatever you're drinking.

[thomas96]

Gordy put his weight behind The J5 because he thought the 'introduced by Diana Ross' thing would work in her favor with the next breed of teeny boppers... I was around for all this, were you? If Gordy didn't flex Motown muscle, which he did, The J5 would have been The Spinners !..who didn't become THE SPINNERS until they got off of Motown and signed with Atlantic during this same frame..or do you think that groups like The Spinners, who made great records, would have had the same outcome in the end,regardless?..If you do, I'll have whatever you're drinking.

The Jackson 5 had 4 straight #1 hits. If Ms Ross had never even been born, those 4 songs would still be #1 hits. The Jackson 5 were so much more talented in singing and dancing than the Spinners, AND they were way more of a pop group. The Spinners were strictly R&B. The Jackson 5 appealed to EVERYBODY. Old or young. Ms Ross did not contribute to their success whatsoever. And they were so much more successful than her. And not to mention the fact that Motown was pushing the Jackson 5 to DJs harder than any other artist at that time. The Spinners barely got any promotion push from Motown whatsoever. If Motown had tried they could've gotten the Spinners on to Ed Sullivan. Ms Ross had absolutely nothing to do with them getting on Ed Sullivan.

[radionixon]

I'm far from being "in love with" Diana Ross and I'm no Supremes partisan [[and also a big Bobby Taylor fan!), but I agree with Jimi here.

Saying most of the country/world didn't care about the backstory and just loved the J5's music, Michael's star quality etc. is probably true, certainly after 1970, but it's kind of missing the point, because [[as others have already said) it's Motown's canny marketing in concocting the Diana story that helped get the J5 the exposure that ever introduced the country/world to them in the first place.

Record buyers may or may not have cared about the Diana link, but it would surely have opened doors when it came to pushing a new act re: radio, TV and press, getting them airplay and TV exposure and column inches they likely wouldn't otherwise have had - after all, however good they were, it's hard for fans to fall in love with a new act if you've never actually seen or heard [[of) them.

The use of Diana's name helped the group gain recognition; that's not to say the story was in any way true, or even morally correct, but simply that the story was effective.

[marv2]

It was unbelievable in the first place for many of us who knew who Diana Ross really was. In her entire 54 year career, has she ever discovered another act? We know she did not discover the Jackson 5. I am asking if she ever found another musical act and brought them to Motown?

[Jimi LaLumia]

In retrospect, everyone is so wise, but if not for Diana Ross visually introducing The J5 on The Hollywood Palace, Ross fans like myself might not have been so inclined to rush out and buy a record from these Osmonds-esque "little brats" [[who I came to love).. it didn't hurt that she was introducing them hot on the heels of the #1 success of "Someday We'll Be Together", insinuating that the 5 were important enough to be standing on the same stage with her.. if Gordy didn't have his boys slaving over the composing of bubble gum records like "ABC" and "The Love You Save", the 'brats' might still be recording for Steel Town or whatever label they were originally on..Read MJ's "Moon Walker" to get his view on the importance of being associated with the "Ross brand" at that moment in time..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0603140/

[Jimi LaLumia]

by the end of Oct. after the Hollywood Palace broadcast, "Someday.." debuted at #50 on the Hot 100, the next week #34,then #20, then #11 by Dec. 6th and wound up as the last #1 single of the 1960's.."I Want You Back" followed the debut of "Someday.." a week later, Nov. 15th, entering the Hot 100 at #90,then #67,then #51,and as "Someday.."entered the Top 10, Ross was leaving the Supremes, and her 'discovery' of the J5 was part of her press package, "I Want You Back" took a leap from #51 to "27, and Gordy induced Sullivan into presenting the J5 to the world.. but "I Want You Back" rode the coat tails of "Someday We'll Be Together" and all the Ross leaves The Supremes and discovers these kids hoopla..it's all a matter of public record!...enjoy your day..
"

[Jimi LaLumia]

The J5 appeared on Sullivan on Dec. 14th 1969 as "I Want You Back" crept from #19 to #17 on the Billboard Hot 100 Dec 20th chart.. the results of the Gordy/Ross [[Ed liked her..A LOT!) induced J5 appearance on the Sullivan show were felt the following week, on the Dec. 27th Billboard Hot 100 , as "I want You Back" jumped from #17 to #8 [[thank you, Ed!), while "Someday We'll Be Together" sat at #1, the last week of the 1960's.. here's the early, 'finding our footing' appearance..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aASwsMOy-pA

[thomas96]

if Gordy didn't have his boys slaving over the composing of bubble gum records like "ABC" and "The Love You Save", the 'brats' might still be recording for Steel Town or whatever label they were originally on..

You seriously just brought that up? None of those children were even close to as big of brats as Diane was. If Gordy didn't have his boys slaving over the composing of pop records such as "Where Did Our Love Go," "Baby Love," "Come See About Me," "Stop In The Name of Love" etc., Ms. 'brat' Ross might still be living in the projects and her nasal singing wouldn't be appealing to anybody. Not to mention all the shit they did to make the Supremes look and act professional, make them appear beautiful, and promote them like hell. No other Motown act had even half the amount of promotion the Supremes did. If Motown had worked so hard on promoting guys like Shorty Long, Bobby Taylor, Jr Walker they would be as big of stars as anyone else. And why did they decide to do the most promotion on the Supremes? Because they were more talented? Hell no. Because they would sell and appeal guys like you who can't get over some pop records, gowns and lame hairdos. I don't understand your [[or anyone else's) Ross fantasy whatsoever. Just conforming to the 'norm' I suppose.

[marv2]

You seriously just brought that up? None of those children were even close to as big of brats as Diane was. If Gordy didn't have his boys slaving over the composing of pop records such as "Where Did Our Love Go," "Baby Love," "Come See About Me," "Stop In The Name of Love" etc., Ms. 'brat' Ross might still be living in the projects and her nasal singing wouldn't be appealing to anybody. Not to mention all the shit they did to make the Supremes look and act professional, make them appear beautiful, and promote them like hell. No other Motown act had even half the amount of promotion the Supremes did. If Motown had worked so hard on promoting guys like Shorty Long, Bobby Taylor, Jr Walker they would be as big of stars as anyone else. And why did they decide to do the most promotion on the Supremes? Because they were more talented? Hell no. Because they would sell and appeal guys like you who can't get over some pop records, gowns and lame hairdos. I don't understand your [[or anyone else's) Ross fantasy whatsoever. Just conforming to the 'norm' I suppose.

You left out one critical element that got Ross promoted and that was sleeping with the boss! As the younger generation puts it, she was "thuggin' for tracks" LOL!!

[thomas96]

You left out one critical element that got Ross promoted and that was sleeping with the boss! As the younger generation puts it, she was "thuggin' for tracks" LOL!!

I left that out to humor the Ross fanatics, LOL.

[marv2]

I left that out to humor the Ross fanatics, LOL.


But Thomas! You must tell the whole story to insure that future generations understand the deal! LOL!

[honest man]

The J5 appeared on Sullivan on Dec. 14th 1969 as "I Want You Back" crept from #19 to #17 on the Billboard Hot 100 Dec 20th chart.. the results of the Gordy/Ross [[Ed liked her..A LOT!) induced J5 appearance on the Sullivan show were felt the following week, on the Dec. 27th Billboard Hot 100 , as "I want You Back" jumped from #17 to #8 [[thank you, Ed!), while "Someday We'll Be Together" sat at #1, the last week of the 1960's.. here's the early, 'finding our footing' appearance..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aASwsMOy-pA

Go Jimi go, you have the clown in knots hehehe

[honest man]

You left out one critical element that got Ross promoted and that was sleeping with the boss! As the younger generation puts it, she was "thuggin' for tracks" LOL!!Wow the girl had everything,good in the sack by all accounts,Berry was one lucky dude.heheheheh

[marv2]

Wow the girl had everything,good in the sack by all accounts,Berry was one lucky dude.heheheheh

She had everything except "T&A"! LOL!!!

[honest man]

She had everything except "T&A"! LOL!!!
More than a handful is a waste ,SHE HAD EVERYTHING Berry was one clever dude,HEEEEEEEE

[smark21]

Berry Gordy and Miss Ross sure loved to sabotage careers and destroy lives. Poor Bobby Taylor. Poor Junior Walker. Almost everyone at Motown was victimized.

[Jimi LaLumia]

yes, Taylor and Junior would have been platinum household names if not for HER!...lol

[marv2]

yes, Taylor and Junior would have been platinum household names if not for HER!...lol

I don't know why are you so worshipful of Diana Ross, she has not had any hits in over 30 years. Her solo career had a 10 year window of hits and many misses from roughly 1970-80. Sooooooo.........

[supremester]

Then why are you a fan of Mary's? She's never had a hit anything. Her solo career, according to YOUR yardstick, had no window at all - only a boarded up door.
I don't know why are you so worshipful of Diana Ross, she has not had any hits in over 30 years. Her solo career had a 10 year window of hits and many misses from roughly 1970-80. Sooooooo.........

[Motown Queen]

Berry Gordy and Miss Ross sure loved to sabotage careers and destroy lives. Poor Bobby Taylor. Poor Junior Walker. Almost everyone at Motown was victimized.
What happened to Junior Walker?

[Jimi LaLumia]

WHO?...lol

[thomas96]

What happened to Junior Walker?

Smark's just being a sarcastic smartass.

Jimi, they could have easily been on par with James Brown if they had the promotion, and time/hits devoted to them to the degree that the Supremes had. James Brown was bigger [[and so much better) than the Supremes.

[carole cucumber]

Smark's just being a sarcastic smartass.

Jimi, they could have easily been on par with James Brown if they had the promotion, and time/hits devoted to them to the degree that the Supremes had. James Brown was bigger [[and so much better) than the Supremes.


I'm a bit surprised that there has not been a response from Marv in your saying [[and we are all entitled to our opinions) that James Brown was bigger and better than Mary Wilson, Florence Ballard, Cindy Birdsong & Diana Ross, i.e. the Supremes.

[Lulu]

I'm a bit surprised that there has not been a response from Marv in your saying [[and we are all entitled to our opinions) that James Brown was bigger and better than Mary Wilson, Florence Ballard, Cindy Birdsong & Diana Ross, i.e. the Supremes.

James Brown did not sell more records than The Supremes OR Diana Ross...those are the facts. Is he more of a bad ass artist? Absolutely!

[marv2]

I'm a bit surprised that there has not been a response from Marv in your saying [[and we are all entitled to our opinions) that James Brown was bigger and better than Mary Wilson, Florence Ballard, Cindy Birdsong & Diana Ross, i.e. the Supremes.


I don't know what you are talking about , but I do know JB was calling her all the time because he had hots for her.......hehehehehehehe!

[marv2]

Then why are you a fan of Mary's? She's never had a hit anything. Her solo career, according to YOUR yardstick, had no window at all - only a boarded up door.



Because Mary is better looking and I like her singing more.

[Jimi LaLumia]

that's not true.. tell us why you're REALLY mad at Miss Ross and we might actually agree with your feelings.. but Mary is not better looking and generally can't sing her way out of a paper bag..her timing is frequently off, and on stage, her false smile is more 'mental patient' than true diva.. and I LIKE Mary!... despite what I just shared ..

[smark21]

Miss Ross enjoyed having her minions pour motor oil and maple syrup in Junior Walker's saxophone. He would have to buy another one from a music store that had a kickback deal with Berry and Diana Ross. Poor Junior Walker.

[midnightman]

^ Lol well doggone Smark. "Motor oil and maple syrup..."?! ;)

[midnightman]

All Diana did was agree to be their leading mascot for one of their best PR stories though the Jacksons themselves acknowledged Bobby [[least starting in the '80s). But I think most replies here are again aimed at the Supremes, than the Jackson 5. And calling both groups "a group of brats", really? Lol

[thomas96]

All Diana did was agree to be their leading mascot for one of their best PR stories though the Jacksons themselves acknowledged Bobby [[least starting in the '80s). But I think most replies here are again aimed at the Supremes, than the Jackson 5. And calling both groups "a group of brats", really? Lol

Well I truly believe the Supremes were not very talented and were only stars because of their image and what Motown did for them to get them to be stars. But no one here ever called Mary or Florence brats. I called Diana a brat, and no matter how much one loves her, that can't be denied. So many accounts from people who met Ross, have called her bratty. The only one calling the Jackson 5 brats was Jimi LaLumia, and that is absolutely ridiculous. They were perfect gentlemen, even Mikey at 11 years old. That was due to Joe's abuse, but still, they were far from brats.

[thomas96]

Miss Ross enjoyed having her minions pour motor oil and maple syrup in Junior Walker's saxophone. He would have to buy another one from a music store that had a kickback deal with Berry and Diana Ross. Poor Junior Walker.

Smark, you should change your name to smartass21. Give people a head's up before they read your posts.

[Roberta75]

Well I truly believe the Supremes were not very talented and were only stars because of their image and what Motown did for them to get them to be stars. But no one here ever called Mary or Florence brats. I called Diana a brat, and no matter how much one loves her, that can't be denied. So many accounts from people who met Ross, have called her bratty. The only one calling the Jackson 5 brats was Jimi LaLumia, and that is absolutely ridiculous. They were perfect gentlemen, even Mikey at 11 years old. That was due to Joe's abuse, but still, they were far from brats.

So abuse makes perfect gentlemen? smh.

Roberta

[marv2]

So abuse makes perfect gentlemen? smh.

Roberta

Nah, discipline ,as it was prescribed by normal parents in the 50's and 60's kept sometimes unruly children in line. Like it or not, that is the way it was......................!

[Roberta75]

Nah, discipline ,as it was prescribed by normal parents in the 50's and 60's kept sometimes unruly children in line. Like it or not, that is the way it was......................!

Didnt help you did it?

[marv2]

Didnt help you did it?

It sure did! Never been arrested once!

[Roberta75]

It sure did! Never been arrested once!

Congratulations. Thats real great.

[144man]

If my parents were here to read what is written on these threads, they'd probably come back and slap the lot of you:)

[marv2]

If my parents were here to read what is written on these threads, they'd probably come back and slap the lot of you:)


hehehehehehehhehe! Right 144man?

[Jimi LaLumia]

BRATS!!!!..and apparently some of them still are!.. *[[hi, Jermaine..) .. nothing wrong with being a brat sometimes...

[marv2]

BRATS!!!!..and apparently some of them still are!.. *[[hi, Jermaine..) .. nothing wrong with being a brat sometimes...

But the facts are the Jackson Brothers were not brats. They were hard working individuals from an early age and deserve more respect than some are giving them today.

[supremester]

Berry had very little to do with Motown 25 - it was Suzanne DePasse. It sucks that she didn't include everyone on the guest list. I'm still smh that The Marvelettes were left off the bill. How is that possible? They could have been given 3 minutes to do Postman, Beachwood and Don't Mess with Bill. Ditto Martha with Heat Wave and Dancing in The Street - also Queen Mary with Two Lovers and My Guy. Mary & The Marvelettes were essential to Motown surviving the early, cash poor years. They were deserving of better, but that was Suzanne, not Berry. Both acts get their props in Motown Musical.
And none of the Funks were mentioned, OR important artists like the Marvelettes, Jimmy Ruffin, Edwin Starr, Marv Johnson, the Contours, Gladys & the Pips. James Jamerson had to scalp a damn ticket to see the special. BG didn't give a shit about anyone who helped make Motown happen except Smokey and "Ms. Ross."

[midnightman]

I don't really respect Suzanne for some reason. Didn't she join Motown around 1970? That may be the reason why. Generation gap? Lol

[marv2]

I don't really respect Suzanne for some reason. Didn't she join Motown around 1970? That may be the reason why. Generation gap? Lol

I do not respect Suzanne DePasse for a lot of reasons and I believe Cindy Birdsong introduced her to Mr. Gordy around 1967-68.

[Jaap]

What to include and what not include was not all up to Motown, let alone just one person like Suzanne DePasse. The show was not a PBS special [[focused on the history of Motown) or like the Motown 40 television special for ABC [[and co-written by DePasse) that was more a historical documentary. Motown 25 was a primetime entertainment special and I'm sure Motown and DePasse had to negotiate quite fiercely with the NBC executives. Ironically, by the early 1980s Motown was a less powerful force in TV land than in the late 1960s when TBC and GIT on Broadway were made. I'm sure that the NBC people didn't know the difference between the Marvelettes and the Vandellas [[3 black women must be the Supremes), and basically cared about getting Michael Jackson, Diana Ross, Marvin Gaye, and Stevie Wonder. Having a Jackson 5 and Supremes reunion was added bonus [[although backfired). To ensure a wider [[read white) audience performances by Linda Rondstadt and that weird performance by Adam Ant were added [[probably inspired by the success of Soft Cell's Tainted Love/WDOLG and Phil Collin's You Can't Hurry Love). Of course the reduction of Mary Wells and Martha Reeves to 30 minutes is an insult to anybody who seriously loves music, but as main grand entertainment and television executives politics that was/is business as usual. Motown 25 is flawed in many ways, as is much of early 1980s television, but has given us some fantastic performances, not only MJ's iconic moonwalk, but also a moving Marvin Gaye and that wonderful duel between the Four Tops and the Temptations. Much more cannot be expected -- quite different than the Motown 40 documentary.

[Jaap]

. Of course the reduction of Mary Wells and Martha Reeves to 30 minutes is an insult to anybody who seriously loves music.

Freudian slip: I obviously meant to type 30 seconds... I wish it was 30 minutes each!

[captainjames]

Back to Booby Taylor and The Jackson 5 !!
I believe he was rewarded for his discovery of the Jackson 5 so is he upset because he was not given public recognition ? If his name was placed instead of Diana Ross, they would have never got doors open they way they did. The Daisy, Ed Sullivan,, Frontier, etc. would have never thought twice without Ross' name being USED !!!

[Jimi LaLumia]

...correct...

[jobeterob]

Of course what happened with "naming" the Jackson 5 and what happened on M25 make sense for the public and both events ensured success.

But when all was said and done, a few artists and the Gordys made millions of dollars and most everyone else got left in Detroit with modest means to continue a career and a few bucks at best.

That causes jealousy and envy and of course, it rears it's head every once in a while.

There's that guy on here that shows it daily.

[supremester]

LOl. I think you are incorrect about NBC input. Normally, the producer of the special makes the decision content and pitches the idea to the networks to sell it. NBC may have requested in negotiations to include Ronstadt and, gulp, Adam Ant, but after the deal was signed, it would be very unusual to have content input unless NBC was producing it, but I don't think they did. DePasse is a talented woman and put on an excellent show that was a huge ratings grabber. NBC had no problem buying her next one, so they must have been happy. Some of the fans might not have been, but TV is for the masses and to make money - in that regard, she was a giant success.

[Jimi LaLumia]

also correct!

[carole cucumber]

And none of the Funks were mentioned, OR important artists like the Marvelettes, Jimmy Ruffin, Edwin Starr, Marv Johnson, the Contours, Gladys & the Pips. .."

A couple of points-

In the video segments following Smokey Robinson's 'Motown finishing school' comments, the Marvelettes [[dance moves during Don't Mess With Bill and a 1964 clip performing Please Mr. Postman) are featured as are Gladys Knight & the Pips [[Friendship Train & a Motortown Revue performance )

Some artists may not have been invited due to circumstances. The Marvelettes
had disbanded during a time of considerable tension among members. Wanda's proposed solo album was marketed as by The Marvelettes- Kat rightly refusing to pose for a cover shot of the album on which she had not been invited to sing. Wanda had experienced personal and family tragedies and was likely not in the best of mental heath.
If asked, would they have been able to regroup?...Would they have wanted to?
Jimmy Ruffin... His brother David had just participated in a Temptations' reunion, that according to many accounts started well but ended badly. Would Jimmy appear if David were not invited? Would Motown have to be concerned that David might suddenly appear [[unrehearsed) onstage during the the Temps vs. Tops medley- as David was known to do during some of Dennis' early engagements as a Temptation?
Gladys Knight/the Pips in the late 1970's branched out as 2 separate units. The public wondered if there was any undercurrent of family friction. When they came together again in 1980 they said that there hadn't been. But some still wondered..
At the time of Motown 25, both Edwin Starr and Jimmy Ruffin were residing in Great Britain. Considering that Motown 25 was also a fundraiser, I'm not sure what monies may have been budgeted for transportation by NBC.
According to the Countours with Joe Billingslea's website, Joe revived the group [[ although he does not state who the members were) in 1971 "playing a few dates here and there". Finally by 1981, the group with Council Gay and 3 members who were not part of the group signed to Motown began to play " a lot more dates". How many is a lot more? And how did they fare in keeping alive the same energy/showmanship that was the Contours at Motown?
Sadly , Marv Johnson, after his mid-60's return to Motown, had taken jobs in sales & promotion.
I'm not here championing their non-involvement in Motown 25; I'm only trying to see if there might have been extenuating circumstances that could have steered some from putting them on an official list, if there even was such a list at the time.

[thomas96]

Back to Booby Taylor and The Jackson 5 !!
I believe he was rewarded for his discovery of the Jackson 5 so is he upset because he was not given public recognition ? If his name was placed instead of Diana Ross, they would have never got doors open they way they did. The Daisy, Ed Sullivan,, Frontier, etc. would have never thought twice without Ross' name being USED !!!

Absolutely not correct. Bobby has never been rewarded for his discovery of the Jackson 5 by Motown [[BG) or Ms Ross, or many of the Jacksons. AND he never got paid for the work he did with them, or credited as a writer/producer on their hits, which he was. And they wouldn't place his name, they shouldn't have placed anybody's name. Do you think it should've been "Ronnie White Presents Little Stevie Wonder"? It should've just been "Jackson 5 First Album" or just self titled like many Motown albums. As for "Ed Sullivan would have never thought twice without Ross' name being USED" that is honestly the most ridiculous thing I've heard this year. Her name was not used on the Ed Sullivan billing, only on their first album. And they got on Ed Sullivan because Motown had the power to get them on, and off the success of their early singles. NOT because of any "Diana Ross presents.." bullshit. You must have your nose stuck so far up her ass you're blinded from the damn truth.

[marv2]

A couple of points-

In the video segments following Smokey Robinson's 'Motown finishing school' comments, the Marvelettes [[dance moves during Don't Mess With Bill and a 1964 clip performing Please Mr. Postman) are featured as are Gladys Knight & the Pips [[Friendship Train & a Motortown Revue performance )

Some artists may not have been invited due to circumstances. The Marvelettes
had disbanded during a time of considerable tension among members. Wanda's proposed solo album was marketed as by The Marvelettes- Kat rightly refusing to pose for a cover shot of the album on which she had not been invited to sing. Wanda had experienced personal and family tragedies and was likely not in the best of mental heath.
If asked, would they have been able to regroup?...Would they have wanted to?
Jimmy Ruffin... His brother David had just participated in a Temptations' reunion, that according to many accounts started well but ended badly. Would Jimmy appear if David were not invited? Would Motown have to be concerned that David might suddenly appear [[unrehearsed) onstage during the the Temps vs. Tops medley- as David was known to do during some of Dennis' early engagements as a Temptation?
Gladys Knight/the Pips in the late 1970's branched out as 2 separate units. The public wondered if there was any undercurrent of family friction. When they came together again in 1980 they said that there hadn't been. But some still wondered..
At the time of Motown 25, both Edwin Starr and Jimmy Ruffin were residing in Great Britain. Considering that Motown 25 was also a fundraiser, I'm not sure what monies may have been budgeted for transportation by NBC.
According to the Countours with Joe Billingslea's website, Joe revived the group [[ although he does not state who the members were) in 1971 "playing a few dates here and there". Finally by 1981, the group with Council Gay and 3 members who were not part of the group signed to Motown began to play " a lot more dates". How many is a lot more? And how did they fare in keeping alive the same energy/showmanship that was the Contours at Motown?
Sadly , Marv Johnson, after his mid-60's return to Motown, had taken jobs in sales & promotion.
I'm not here championing their non-involvement in Motown 25; I'm only trying to see if there might have been extenuating circumstances that could have steered some from putting them on an official list, if there even was such a list at the time.

The above is all hogwash! It is desperate spinning in order to defend Suzanne DePasse utter disrespect for just about anything connecting Motown to it's true roots in Detroit!

[marv2]

Absolutely not correct. Bobby has never been rewarded for his discovery of the Jackson 5 by Motown [[BG) or Ms Ross, or many of the Jacksons. AND he never got paid for the work he did with them, or credited as a writer/producer on their hits, which he was. And they wouldn't place his name, they shouldn't have placed anybody's name. Do you think it should've been "Ronnie White Presents Little Stevie Wonder"? It should've just been "Jackson 5 First Album" or just self titled like many Motown albums. As for "Ed Sullivan would have never thought twice without Ross' name being USED" that is honestly the most ridiculous thing I've heard this year. Her name was not used on the Ed Sullivan billing, only on their first album. And they got on Ed Sullivan because Motown had the power to get them on, and off the success of their early singles. NOT because of any "Diana Ross presents.." bullshit. You must have your nose stuck so far up her ass you're blinded by the damn truth.

the bottomline is Bobby Taylor got screwed out of his proper credit along with money he should have received! They did not need Diana Ross in anyway because the Jackson 5 were dynamically talented! They were getting rave reviews even while they were performing in theaters without a hit record!

[carole cucumber]

The above is all hogwash! It is desperate spinning in order to defend Suzanne DePasse utter disrespect for just about anything connecting Motown to it's true roots in Detroit!

So, according to your response, the video segments of the Marvelettes and Gladys Knight & the Pips that attendees and viewers of the broadcast saw wasn't them???? You said 'the above is all hogwash'. Then who were those imposters???? Those gals sure looked, sang & danced like the Marvelous Marvelettes; that fabulous female singer and her 3 male backups sure did one fantastic job of impersonating Gladys Knight & the Pips. Then tell us, Marv, the real truth, [[as you see it) who were they??????

[jobeterob]

the bottomline is Bobby Taylor got screwed out of his proper credit along with money he should have received! They did not need Diana Ross in anyway because the Jackson 5 were dynamically talented! They were getting rave reviews even while they were performing in theaters without a hit record!

R Dean Taylor never felt he got proper credit either. I'm sure there were others.

And the J5 did get Diana to introduce them and the rest is history including her close relationship with MJ and nearly ending caring for his kids!

[marv2]

So, according to your response, the video segments of the Marvelettes and Gladys Knight & the Pips that attendees and viewers of the broadcast saw wasn't them???? You said 'the above is all hogwash'. Then who were those imposters???? Those gals sure looked, sang & danced like the Marvelous Marvelettes; that fabulous female singer and her 3 male backups sure did one fantastic job of impersonating Gladys Knight & the Pips. Then tell us, Marv, the real truth, [[as you see it) who were they??????

Nah, don't even try it! those few seconds of video tape without any proper acknowledgement of the contributions those legendary artist made to the overall success of Motown Records just won't do! It was not right and you are wrong to defend it.

[supremester]

The Marvelettes were huge for Motown and provided cash & exposure in the earliest days - Gladys, although a big seller, was just another group in the scheme of things. Had Gladys, who declined to attend, never existed, Motown would have been just fine, just short a few killer records.
I would like to have seen more of the classic acts, but it was an entertainment special, not a history class. Like the Broadway show, it's an entertainment piece and there are no "shoulds" or "should nots." - I catch myself doing it too. If you think it should - write your own play or special.

[midnightman]

The Jackson 5's success could be easily credited to Michael, Berry Gordy and Bobby Taylor.

[marv2]

The Jackson 5's success could be easily credited to Michael, Berry Gordy and Bobby Taylor.

and Joseph and Katherine Jackson and then that would be a fair summation.

[stephanie]

When I was a kid I dont remember any conversations of "wow Diana Ross is introducing the Jackson Five!". As a matter of fact in retrospect I always thought that was strange. I remember people talking about Diana Ross, The New Supremes, and the Jackson Five as three seperate groups. When I was in the store or cut out bins or anywhere I always got ever Ross album and Supremes album I could find. Unless I didnt read the paper or look at the news I never got the importance of her name on their album cover. Until I was in my twenties did it make sense to me but I think they would have been hot with or without her name attached to theirs. I can see why Bobby Taylor was upset because of the spin on things and I hope that someone will make good for him.

[vgalindo]

This is really a moot point on how big they would have gotten with or without the name of Diana Ross presenting them. We can all speculate but don't really know. I really feel it helped them in the beginning. What new group would not benefit from a superstar presenting them? I am sure if Beyoncé gave her name to some new group today people would stop and take a look. The Jackson 5 were very talented and there is no doubt in my mind that they would have made it big. But maybe not as fast. We really don't know but what we do know is using Diana Ross' name sure didn't hurt them. And that is fact.

[marv2]

This is really a moot point on how big they would have gotten with or without the name of Diana Ross presenting them. We can all speculate but don't really know. I really feel it helped them in the beginning. What new group would not benefit from a superstar presenting them? I am sure if Beyoncé gave her name to some new group today people would stop and take a look. The Jackson 5 were very talented and there is no doubt in my mind that they would have made it big. But maybe not as fast. We really don't know but what we do know is using Diana Ross' name sure didn't hurt them. And that is fact.

I wish you would stop comparing Beyonce to Diana Ross. They have virtually nothing in common and Beyonce has a much better reputation overall. The Jackson Five did not need Diana Ross and in many cases they surpassed her. Michael certainly did!

[vgalindo]

I wish you would stop comparing Beyonce to Diana Ross. They have virtually nothing in common and Beyonce has a much better reputation overall. The Jackson Five did not need Diana Ross and in many cases they surpassed her. Michael certainly did!
Marv don't be mad because I am not the only one that compares Beyoncé to Diana Ross. Most everyone does. I don't really even care for Beyoncé. But her fame is compared to Diana Ross. All new black female superstars are compared to Diana. So was Whitney back in the day!!

[marv2]

Marv don't be mad because I am not the only one that compares Beyoncé to Diana Ross. Most everyone does. I don't really even care for Beyoncé. But her fame is compared to Diana Ross. All new black female superstars are compared to Diana. So was Whitney back in the day!!

I'm not mad, I just think it is stupid to compare two people, entertainers that are nothing alike in terms of look, sound, presentation or reputation. No not all new black female "superstars" are compared to Diane. Whitney effectively rendered her irrelevant back in the 80's. If you want to chose someone that most are now compared to, it would be Whitney.

[dvus7]

Absolutely not correct. Bobby has never been rewarded for his discovery of the Jackson 5 by Motown [[BG) or Ms Ross, or many of the Jacksons. AND he never got paid for the work he did with them, or credited as a writer/producer on their hits, which he was. And they wouldn't place his name, they shouldn't have placed anybody's name. Do you think it should've been "Ronnie White Presents Little Stevie Wonder"? It should've just been "Jackson 5 First Album" or just self titled like many Motown albums. As for "Ed Sullivan would have never thought twice without Ross' name being USED" that is honestly the most ridiculous thing I've heard this year. Her name was not used on the Ed Sullivan billing, only on their first album. And they got on Ed Sullivan because Motown had the power to get them on, and off the success of their early singles. NOT because of any "Diana Ross presents.." bullshit. You must have your nose stuck so far up her ass you're blinded from the damn truth.

Contrary to popular BELIEF..Bobby Taylor was compensated!!! HAS ANYBODY SEEN THE NUMBER OF UNRELEASED SINGLES OF THE J-5...THEY ARE BOBBY TAYLOR AS PRODUCER...Mr. Taylor product was not up to par[[they were covers) to be released!!!!!

[Lulu]

Contrary to popular BEFLIEF..Bobby Taylor was compensated!!! HAS ANYBODY SEEN THE NUMBER OF UNRELEASED SINGLES OF THE J-5...THEY ARE BOBBY TAYLOR AS PRODUCER...Mr. Taylor product was not up to par[[they were covers) to be released!!!!!

Exactly...I wasn't going to address it because the facts are constantly ignored here. Thanks for bringing it up!

[dvus7]

Exactly...I wasn't going to address it because the facts are constantly ignored here. Thanks for bringing it up!

AND THAT IS THE REASON THAT J-5 STILL OWED MOTOWN THOSE FUNDS[[IN LU, OF THE LAWSUIT)..remember the artist was charged for all songs that were recorded[[ weather they were released or not)..The majority of NOTS were Bobby Taylor products...This not intended to jump on Mr. Taylor..He was PAID-IN-FULL!!!

[thomas96]

Contrary to popular BELIEF..Bobby Taylor was compensated!!! HAS ANYBODY SEEN THE NUMBER OF UNRELEASED SINGLES OF THE J-5...THEY ARE BOBBY TAYLOR AS PRODUCER...Mr. Taylor product was not up to par[[they were covers) to be released!!!!!

Wow. You are a complete moron. I'm not talking about any of those songs, or the ones he produced and were released on many albums. I'm talking specifically about ABC, I Want You Back, and The Love You Save, which Bobby had a big hand in producing, and contributed to the writing of. He's never seen a dime from all the money those hits made.


Exactly...I wasn't going to address it because the facts are constantly ignored here. Thanks for bringing it up!

Really, what facts are you speaking of? The FACT that Bobby contributed to The Jackson 5's first 3 hits and HASN'T SEEN A DIME from those royalties, OR any credit whatsoever.

[thomas96]

When I was a kid I dont remember any conversations of "wow Diana Ross is introducing the Jackson Five!". As a matter of fact in retrospect I always thought that was strange. I remember people talking about Diana Ross, The New Supremes, and the Jackson Five as three seperate groups. When I was in the store or cut out bins or anywhere I always got ever Ross album and Supremes album I could find. Unless I didnt read the paper or look at the news I never got the importance of her name on their album cover. Until I was in my twenties did it make sense to me but I think they would have been hot with or without her name attached to theirs. I can see why Bobby Taylor was upset because of the spin on things and I hope that someone will make good for him.

I agree, very well written.

[Roberta75]

Wow. You are a complete moron. I'm not talking about any of those songs, or the ones he produced and were released on many albums. I'm talking specifically about ABC, I Want You Back, and The Love You Save, which Bobby had a big hand in producing, and contributed to the writing of. He's never seen a dime from all the money those hits made.



Really, what facts are you speaking of? The FACT that Bobby contributed to The Jackson 5's first 3 hits and HASN'T SEEN A DIME from those royalties, OR any credit whatsoever.

Could we please keep this civil and reffrain from calling members moron.

Respectfully.

Roberta

[supremester]

What difference does it make? None. Motown had no crystal ball - they were just trying everything they could to launch The J5. Did they need to? In hindsight, maybe not. Did they KNOW they wouldn't need to? No. So what? No harm done. I have a No Matter What Sign You Are Album promo poster in my den. They were sure that was going to hit, but they were wrong. I Want You Back took two months to go top ten, it's not like it rocketed to #1. Using Ross' name didn't hurt and was a good idea. They took her to NYC for Ed Sullivan when I'm sure she'd have been happier with a night off. They got a HUGE start on The Hollywood Palace because of Miss Ross hosting as they got to sing 3 songs and MJ did bits with Sammy Davis & Ross. Generally an unknown group with no hits doesn't get that kind of exposure. It was that show that brought The J5 to Ed's attention.
This is really a moot point on how big they would have gotten with or without the name of Diana Ross presenting them. We can all speculate but don't really know. I really feel it helped them in the beginning. What new group would not benefit from a superstar presenting them? I am sure if Beyoncé gave her name to some new group today people would stop and take a look. The Jackson 5 were very talented and there is no doubt in my mind that they would have made it big. But maybe not as fast. We really don't know but what we do know is using Diana Ross' name sure didn't hurt them. And that is fact.

[dvus7]

Could we please keep this civil and reffrain from calling members moron.

Respectfully.

Roberta

No, it just goes to show that HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKIGN ABOUT!!!LOL!!LOL!!

[Jimi LaLumia]

I laugh at the post that said The J5 got onto Sullivan based on the success of their early singles..when they appeared on Sullivan, "I Want You Back" was struggling to get from #19 to #17 on the Billboard singles chart..hardly earth shaking..lol.. and before "I Want You Back", there were NO other hit singles..do the homework, this isn't Fox "news", you don't get to make up your own facts,,the "I Want You Back' saga is detailed in my previous posts in this thread, so just get over yourself.. the Ross 'association' was the make or break moment, you don't have to like it, but nobody's buying the strange tale that you're trying to sell...
http://raresoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/20121215-015218-630x350.jpg
[[http://raresoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/20121215-015218-630x350.jpg)http://www.jackson5abc.com/albums/diana-ross-presents-the-jackson-5/
http://home.mj-upbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/mjdiana.jpg
http://www.mjworld.net/wp-content/uploads/1350282_f496.jpg
http://www.thejacksons.com/history/the-jackson-5-1969/

[smark21]

In his interviews, does Bobby Taylor address what role he played in not becoming a star or what shortcomings [[whether it be talent-wise, issues of charisma, poor career/business decisions) he may have possessed? OR does blame Berry Gordy and Motown as the sole cause for not hitting big?

[Lulu]

In his interviews, does Bobby Taylor address what role he played in not becoming a star or what shortcomings [[whether it be talent-wise, issues of charisma, poor career/business decisions) he may have possessed? OR does blame Berry Gordy and Motown as the sole cause for not hitting big?

smark21, you must be blind! Don't you know everything bad that happened at Motown and to Motown artists before, during and after their tenure at the label is ALL Berry and Diana's fault? How on earth could you forget that FACT, YOU "MORON"??? I even heard Berry and Diana held guns to folks heads and made them drink, snort coke, AND shoot up heroin! Yikes - what a scary bunch of bullies! :rolleyes:

[smark21]

smark21, you must be blind! Don't you know everything bad that happened at Motown and to Motown artists before, during and after their tenure at the label is ALL Berry and Diana's fault? How on earth could you forget that FACT, YOU "MORON"??? I even heard Berry and Diana held guns to folks heads and made them drink, snort coke, AND shoot up heroin! Yikes - what a scary bunch of bullies! :rolleyes:

Oh I know, but are you familiar with Stockholm Syndrome?

[Lulu]

Oh I know, but are you familiar with Stockholm Syndrome?

Indeed!!! :cool:

[supremester]

The best reason there is to be a fan. Yet, you hold a different criteria for Ross fans. I quote: "I don't know why are you so worshipful of Diana Ross, she has not had any hits in over 30 years. Her solo career had a 10 year window of hits and many misses from roughly 1970-80. Sooooooo........." Just trying to understand you.


QUOTE=marv2;228972]Because Mary is better looking and I like her singing more.[/QUOTE]

[Lulu]

Well, I personally have had enough of SD for the evening and will now be tuning into RuPaul. SHE is better looking than any of these crude women you speak of from Detroit who moved to Los Angeles or didn't [[who cares?) and were featured in MOTOWN 25 or weren't or did or didn't discover the Jackson 5 and/or get credit for it, damn it!!! RU has also kept quite busy in the last 3 decades!

[midnightman]

What the...? lmao

[Lulu]

What the...? lmao

I was trying to make a funny. My eyes were quite strained from reading!

[midnightman]

I was trying to make a funny. My eyes were quite strained from reading!

Gotcha lol

[LadyLola]

Oh I know, but are you familiar with Stockholm Syndrome?

Well I went to Cal Berkeley and met them SLA jackasses and say Patty Hearst in a few classes so I know that that crap is all about.