Album Review - "diana" 1980

[marv2]

Makes for good reading of historical stuff about Diane...........

http://popdose.com/when-good-albums-happen-to-bad-people-diana-ross-diana/

When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Diana Ross, “Diana”


Matthew Bolin
on March 18, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Berry Gordy is a powerful man. Not only did he found Motown Records, building a musical empire that allowed blacks to crossover into what had pretty much been a white-controlled music industry, but almost as amazing, he was able to convince a young Diana Ross that her crap doesn’t stink, and she has not deviated from that belief one iota over the past 45 or so years. In an industry of big egos, the one belonging to Miss Ross [[remember, she must be addressed as such or you will be thrown out — and don’t you dare look her in the eyes!) is likely the biggest, and she has wielded it to not only obtain her huge success, but to build herself into a prick so immense that it would make porn stars gasp. Here are but a few examples of Miss Ross in action:

• While neither the best singer nor most attractive member of the Supremes, Ross did have one important thing up her sleeve, namely, Mr. Gordy’s penis. After unsuccessfully pursuing Smokey Robinson, Ross set her sights on [[the married and 15 years older) Gordy. As the mistress of Motown’s founder, she was able to gain full power over the group, becoming its lead singer, getting its name changed to Diana Ross & the Supremes, and upstaging the other members, eventually leaving and employing the full power of the Motown promotional machine behind her solo career, while the Supremes were left to sputter out slowly over the course of the ’70s. Ross, meanwhile, ended up bearing Gordy’s child in 1971, but did not publicly acknowledge who the real father was for 22 years, until she released and was promoting her autobiography [[which actually didn’t mention who the father was, either).

• Not only did she upstage the other Supremes throughout their career, she upstaged former Supreme Florence Ballard at Ballard’s own funeral. She went up to the front of the church during the service, grabbed the mike, and announced that she and Mary Wilson were going to lead a silent prayer. Wilson at the time was in a back pew and had no idea what was going on.

• In 1983, she agreed to do a one-off Supremes reunion with Wilson and Cindy Birdsong [[Ballard’s replacement in the group) for the Motown 25 TV special. But Ross said she would only do one song instead of the requested four, and refused to practice for it. She also wanted the other two women behind her throughout the song, and when Wilson, who wasn’t informed of Ross’ demand, tried to step forward during the performance, Ross shoved her [[this part was cut out of the final broadcast).

• In 2000, she announced that there would finally be a Supremes reunion tour with Wilson and Birdsong, but the other two women refused to take part in it when they received the Ross-approved financial breakdown: $20 million in full tour appearance fees with $15 million going to Ross, $4 million to Wilson, and $1 million to Birdsong. Ross proceeded to then get two other former Supremes to join her [[women who had joined the group in the mid-’70s long after Ross had left), and then explained at a press conference that it was a viable reunion because the Supremes were an “ever-changing unit.” Needless to say, fans were unhappy, and the tour was canceled halfway through its proposed itinerary due to low ticket sales.

On top of that, there are a litany of other tales: the explosions in airports and on airplanes, including trying to sneak her dog on a flight hidden in a hatbox, then beating a stewardess with the box while her dog was still in it when the attendant told her she couldn’t bring the box on board because it was barking; constantly firing staff members, including one time firing the entire eight-person staff who served her apartment after an unflattering story about her private behavior appeared in the papers — then sending out a swath of letters trying to blacklist all the staff members from working again; giving her building’s manager, staff, etc. a Christmas bonus consisting of an autographed copy of her latest album [[cost to Miss Ross: zilch). I could go on, but my teeth are being worn down in fits of rage. Suffice it to say, Miss Ross is a grade-A asshole.

Also, suffice it to say, she has put out her share of good music over the course of time; though, honestly, never a really strong album, either with the Supremes, or as a solo artist. She has always been a tremendous singles artist, but a combination of weaker material, “problematic” arrangements [[see Jon Cummings’ Worst #1 Songs of the 70s for proof of this), and Ross’ somewhat limited and nasally voice has kept her from assembling a solid disc from front to back. There is one exception, though: the Good Album for this Bad Person; and that’s 1980′s Diana.

Written and produced by Bernard Edwards and Nile Rodgers, and performed by their band, Chic, Diana was a consistent, catchy album. Gone were the maudlin ballads and safe pop workouts. Instead the tight, eight-song, 34-minute album contained tracks combining funk, post-disco dance jams, and even a bit of proto-new-wave arrangements. Two of the most upbeat songs became top 10 smashes: “Upside Down” and “I’m Coming Out.” All in all, it was a solid piece of work, and in my opinion, Ross’s LP highpoint.

However …

Miss Ross couldn’t leave well enough alone. As such, there is a better version of this album than the one the public is familiar with. You see, after hiring Chic to write and produce an album for her, Ross dismissed the mix that Edwards and Rodgers turned in as sounding too much like “A Chic album featuring Diana Ross,” and personally oversaw the remixing of the album, making it more “mainstream”: songs were sped up, instrumental sections were shortened, the rhythm section was buried lower in the mix, and Ross’s vocals were redone to sound sweeter. In effect, Ross realized she didn’t want a Chic album, but a regular Diana Ross album with Chic-lite arrangements. The fact the album still holds up in its final form just shows the strength of the material and those who actually created it.

Not surprisingly, Edwards and Rodgers went ballistic, after having turned in what they were asked to do, then having their sound weakened. They demanded that their names be taken off as producers, not wanting to be labeled as responsible for the final product. In the end, Miss Ross won that battle, too, though you’ll be damned if you can find any footage of Ross performing any of the songs with Chic.

It wasn’t until 2003, with the “Deluxe” release of Diana, that people were able to hear the original Chic mix of the album, with its deeper grooves and original Ross vocals, which are more laid back and rawer, and fit the songs better than her re-recordings fit the remix. Compare, for instance, the well-known version of “I’m Coming Out” to the original Chic mix. For an even more dramatic change, compare the final version of “Friend to Friend” to the original Chic mix, with the full rhythm section intact, and Rodgers’ very progressive guitar solo up front. It goes to show [[at least I think it does) that a Bad Person can hurt a Good Album, as ego gets in the way of a superior product, making tough into smooth, ballsy into safe, and possibly even art into merely product.

[marv2]

This is probably the most objective review of Diana Ross' work I have read........

[supremester]

Exactly. Very objective........so,,,,,,,,,,,,YOU

[marv2]

Diana , one of the greatest singers that ever lived even made a Top Ten list for the entire decade of the 70's!

http://popdose.com/jesus-of-cool-the-worst-number-one-songs-of-the-%E2%80%9970s/

[supremester]

LOL......can you imagine what 3 year old Marv would do if that was about LaMare? I wonder what it's like spending hours every day holed up in some little room or attic looking for bad things to post about Miss Ross. He reminds me of Kenya on RHOA.

[soulster]

Suffice it to say, Miss Ross is a grade-A asshole.

HAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!!!! Damn this is funny! And true!

[marv2]

HAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!!!! Damn this is funny! And true!



hehehehehehehehe.......He nailed it, didn't he? LOL!!!!

[Bokiluis]

Interesting. You can be away from this forum for weeks or months at a time, only to return and find the same immature bashing still in full effect. I truly don't understand how anyone can defend/be a fan/or admire a "C" student like "the sexy one".

I'll follow and learn from the hard working, focused and determined "Valedictorian" any day. And simply ignore the rambunctious, badass and under achieving troublemakers at their own expense.

And even more interesting, Diana has visionaries like Oprah, Berry Gordy and Michael Jackson that she can count as admirers....accomplished families like The Knowles and The Braxtons in her camp. You may not like them, but, what they have given to the world is undeniable. Sign me up for Team Diana any day!

[alanbill1074]

I gave up reading this after a few lines. Same old, tired and boring digs at someone who probably couldn't give a toss about the article anyway. All I'll say is thank God Diana Ross was so savvy back then to get what she wanted. Without her single minded ness, there'd have been no great success story for The Supremes, and the Motown legacy would be a glimmer of what it actually is. What makes a good singer and a pretty person is in the ear, and eye, of the beholder. Loud does not equal better. I personally couldn't give a fig about what kind of person she is, or Mary Wilson is. I just care about what that tenacity achieved - a stellar legacy that no amount of negativity can wipe away, and it was a major element in making Motown one of the most successful labels in history for her and many other acts. I can't believe people still go on like this after 50 years. But for these apparently undesirable qualities in a Diana Ross, all of the Supremes by now would probably be hugely obese housewives with a few flop records to their name, forgotten by everyone. Instead they achieved something that lasts forever and most of them have been able to make a reasonable living out of it.

So much vicious negativity on this board and every time I stop by I am reminded why I usually stay away.

[REDHOT]

Hey Bokiluis,i don't believe you been away at all lol

[honest man]

So much vicious negativity on this board and every time I stop by I am reminded why I usually stay away. [quote][ALways the same INSTIGATOR, How many times can he get away with causing problems on this site.He has IGNORED RALPH'S REQUEST [YET AGAIN] ABOUT POSTING INTERNET ITEMS ON THIS SITE,HE NEEDS TO BE REMOVED,THE SOONER THE BETTER.

[Jimi LaLumia]

'diana' has sold over 10 million copies worldwide.....poor Mary!.... lolololololol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_%28album%29

[nabob]

Why is this SOS necessary? It adds no value to what we are about. Give it a rest. I'm not Ms Ross' biggest fan, but what she has or hasn't done has no bearing on the direction and meaning of my life. Find something that you truly love doing. If you invest that energy in your new interest, you won't have the time to bash Ms Ross. [[Get a life!) Read the responses to your post and understand that you are presenting yourself as an "Attention Whore" no better than our old nemesis Tony Turner. Your venom is detracting many from enjoyment of this forum. I'm bringing out my industrial strength knee pads to pray for you, if I can find them. Luv Ya!

[smark21]

ONe has to understand that everytime Diana Ross goes on tour and gets good reviews, Marv tends to get very agitated and acts out.

[smark21]

So much vicious negativity on this board and every time I stop by I am reminded why I usually stay away. [quote][ALways the same INSTIGATOR, How many times can he get away with causing problems on this site.He has IGNORED RALPH'S REQUEST [YET AGAIN] ABOUT POSTING INTERNET ITEMS ON THIS SITE,HE NEEDS TO BE REMOVED,THE SOONER THE BETTER.

No the request has to do with posting copyrighted photos from other websites, not all content on the internet. I prefer a link myself rather than a crude copy and paste of the content of the page. Did you enjoy the Al Jolson blackface number I posted for you on Sunday? I know how much you enjoy Al Jolson blackface numbers.

[ralpht]

Okay gang, settle down. If you want the facts on the Chic produced album, here they are. It wasn't just Diana that was unsatisfied with the mixes. It was the creative division as a whole. They had my brother listen to it, and at first he thought it was pretty good until he realized the mixes were a little to "clean". So he remixed the album. Chic freaked and wanted to sue. But for what? The album took off and made money. What were they intending to sue for? All their profit from the project? Russ discusses this in one of our videos.
Now play nice or I'll zap the damn thread.

[ralpht]

And quit singling out Marv for everything that upsets you guys. I CAN read you know.

[ralpht]

Honest Man,
Marv's post was ligit. What is your complaint?

[soulster]

They had my brother listen to it, and at first he thought it was pretty good until he realized the mixes were a little to "clean". Ralph: that word amazes me because it's not the one i'd used to describe the Bob Clearmountain mix. In fact, it sounds a bit "lush". I'd say your brother's mix was clean, in a good way, and very dynamic. It added definition.

I like both mixes for different reasons. I look at them as just two very different visions. The problem is that, since most of the world heard the Terrana mix first, it's the standard by which we judge the the Clearmountain mix.

As for the rest of the article, all of us have to realize that these famous people are just human like the rest of us, and, therefore, will always disappoint us. This is why I do not look to anyone as a hero or idolize anyone, no matter who he or she is. We should be our own heroes. A famous person once said that it's better to not know what artists are really like. I'm sure there are a fair number of people here who wish they didn't know anything about Ross. But, we do.

Everybody:
Marv had nothing to do with that article. It was written by someone else. Obviously, there are a LOT of people who don't like Ross for the very reasons outlined in the article. They are factual, too. You may not like that. So be it. All Marv did was post the article. This isn't a Diana Ross fan site, it's a Motown fan site.

[ralpht]

Here is a video of Russ discussing the Chic project.

http://youtu.be/A9uiouUw2PY

[jobeterob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9uiouUw2PY&feature=youtu.be

[Lulu]

I'm sorry but regardless of it's musical assessment, I did not find Marv's article particularly "scholarly" or thorough. I posted the link below in another message thread and no one even bothered to comment whereas you'd think Marv's finding were a front page New York Times review. The article I've shared is not a Diana Ross puff piece, is extremely well-researched/written, and focuses on the making of the album without relying on snarky digs at the folks involved.

http://www.popmatters.com/feature/171716-have-fun-a-tribute-to-diana-ross-nile-rodgers/

I also take issue with the moderators here continually ignoring Marv's ongoing threads and posts about how horrible Diana Ross is and was. I suppose they feel that he adds to the wonderful nature of this site with his biased opinions that, for the most part, have absolutely nothing to do with the music. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't understand how calling a 70 year old woman "fat" and a "dumb b*tch" is acceptable. I can only ascertain that there is some camaraderie between the moderators and Marv and he has free reign to say whatever he wants, whenever he wants even when he stoops as low as low can go with his absolutely disgusting commentary on homosexuals and HIV/AIDS patients. Methinks if a woman or gay man were one of the moderators on this forum, his time here would have already expired.

Lastly, I've tried not to stoop to his level and have even found myself deleting things that I post rather impulsively because I don't want to even be viewed on the same level as this filthy, mean-spirited, self loathing individual. I hate to say it but I have no interest in continuing on in this forum or any forum that tolerates misogynistic and homophobic hate spew.

Good luck...hopefully the moderators will come to their senses and realize that they are just as offensive as some of their members by continuing to tolerate this awful behavior.

[ralpht]

Lulu,
Show me ONE line in this thread that you feel Marv is some sort of culprit. Bet you can't.

[Lulu]

Lulu,
Show me ONE line in this thread that you feel Marv is some sort of culprit. Bet you can't.

This is just an example of what I think we're all sick of reading. What does this childish banter add to the discussion? Yes, that moronic author said that [[he's a real future Pulitzer Prize winner with that language) but did it need to then be dragged and giggled about by a bunch of grown ass men who act like teenage girls? I suppose it's just a bunch of "bros" being funny so it's acceptable. Soulster's just as bad and I'm sure if enough of us gathered evidence on this entire forum,where one or both of them have been vile and offensive not to mention Marv's activities on YouTube and in his Mary Wilson Yahoo! Group. But Mary Wilson is a friend of his as are you so I guess it's completely acceptable to keep dragging Motown's most successful artist and a 70 year old grandmother of two through the mud and comparing her to Mephistopheles.

8124

[ralpht]

First of all what does Marv's activities on Youtube have to do with what goes on here. This is a forum where opinions can be aired. I try to keep things as civil as possible, but if opinions bother you, then you may be on the wrong forum. As far as I can tell, this thread adheres to the forum rules. Your posting does nothing more than fan some flames that were not there in the beginning.

[Lulu]

First of all what does Marv's activities on Youtube have to do with what goes on here. This is a forum where opinions can be aired. I try to keep things as civil as possible, but if opinions bother you, then you may be on the wrong forum. As far as I can tell, this thread adheres to the forum rules. Your posting does nothing more than fan some flames that were not there in the beginning.

Sorry...still not sure how calling someone "fat" or a "b*tch" is construed as opinion in a music forum and not offensive. Maybe I'm too sensitive or not. Either way, I have tremendous respect for you and your brother's work so I wish you the best of luck with the Forum!

[ralpht]

I can't go through every thread and edit things. We are adults here and as long as things don't get overly out of hand, the few insensitive things that do get posted are best ignored.

[Roberta75]

And quit singling out Marv for everything that upsets you guys. I CAN read you know.

Marv has said many many many time that he dont like Diane Ross yet he posts negative comments and personal attacks in every Diane Ross thread. I dont like Gladys Knight but i avoid most if not all Gladys Knight threads. Wouldnt it be better if Marv avoidded all Diane Ross threads?

Your vigorous defense of marv is both baffling and admirable. i dont get it Ralph but its your forum.

Respectfully,.

Roberta

[vgalindo]

Marv has said many many many time that he dont like Diane Ross yet he posts negative comments and personal attacks in every Diane Ross thread. I dont like Gladys Knight but i avoid most if not all Gladys Knight threads. Wouldnt it be better if Marv avoidded all Diane Ross threads?

Your vigorous defense of marv is both baffling and admirable. i dont get it Ralph but its your forum.

Respectfully,.

Roberta

Roberta I totally agree with you. Why would Marv post this link? Just to anger Diana Ross fans! I don't like the person Mary Wilson is but I respect all of her fans. So I don't trash her. I choose to follow how Diana Ross handles things. She doesn't talk trash about anyone either.

[soulster]

Lulu, if I didn't know any better, i'd say there was an effort to make Ralph zap this thread. Let's not keep bringing up this stuff [[with no proof to back it up with) up at every opportunity. I propose that Ralph remove offending comments about Marv and leave the comments about the album in.

Face reality: there are many people in this world who do not like Diana Ross for whatever reason. We all have to live in a world, where people have opinions we may not like.

I suggest that if you want a Diana Ross appreciation thread, start one, and title it as such, and i'll promise to stay out of it. Better yet, start a Diana Ross fan forum, blog, or Facebook page, and censor out opinions you don't like.

[soulster]

Sorry...still not sure how calling someone "fat" or a "b*tch" is construed as opinion in a music forum and not offensive.

He didn't do that on this thread or this forum.

I thought the line in the article was funny. That's all. It's my opinion, and I have a right to express it.

Again, Marv didn't write that article. He found it and posted it. If you can't deal with it, get out of the thread. I doubt Ralph will remove it just to satisfy his haters.

I would like you all to patch up your differences and move on with your lives.

[Lulu]

Lulu, if I didn't know any better, i'd say there was an effort to make Ralph zap this thread. Let's not keep bringing up this stuff [[with no proof to back it up with) up at every opportunity. I propose that Ralph remove offending comments about Marv and leave the comments about the album in.

Face reality: there are many people who do not like Diana Ross. We all have to live in a world, and forums,where people have opinions we may not like.

I suggest that if you want a Diana Ross appreciation thread, start one, and title it as such, and i'll promise to stay out of it. Better yet, start a Diana Ross fan forum, blog, or Facebook page, and censor out opinions you don't like.

Yes he did do it on this FORUM...not this thread. Either way, here you are again with your ridiculous sweeping generalizations based on the little bubble you live in. I've told you time and time again, I have ZERO interest in any of these singers personal lives so "there are many people who don't like Diana Ross" I hope means her music and not her as a person. You don't know her so I'm not sure what gives you the right to even go there as the comment was regarding the author of that blog post calling her a "b*tch" and I do not believe conversations about that or that language add anything to these music discussions. I think Roman Polanski is a perv. Can I get through a film forum on Rosemary's Baby without bringing that up? Yes. It's what mature, worldly educated adults do. His behavior has NOTHING to do with a movie that I enjoy immensely. Is Donald Sterling a racist pig? Yes. Does that mean I'm going to bring that up discussing a Clippers game? Nope.

I have ZERO interest in starting any sort of Diana Ross group, forum, fan club, etc. There are numerous ones out there and ones that, as I've stated, DO NOT TOLERATE THIS HIDEOUS BEHAVIOR. You call Mary Wilson a name? You're banned...that's all.

Yes, this post was a childish attempt by Marv to detract from all the positive reviews and discussions on Diana's tours and "Funny Girl" banter. Mark my words, Evan Ross's wedding will come and go and someone will bring it up and Marv will unearth some tired old hag's quote about how Diana Ross didn't speak to her and such-and-such's wedding 50 years ago.

[Roberta75]

Lulu, if I didn't know any better, i'd say there was an effort to make Ralph zap this thread. Let's not keep bringing up this stuff [[with no proof to back it up with) up at every opportunity. I propose that Ralph remove offending comments about Marv and leave the comments about the album in.

Face reality: there are many people in this world who do not like Diana Ross for whatever reason. We all have to live in a world, where people have opinions we may not like.

I suggest that if you want a Diana Ross appreciation thread, start one, and title it as such, and i'll promise to stay out of it. Better yet, start a Diana Ross fan forum, blog, or Facebook page, and censor out opinions you don't like.

You anotther one that claim to not give a whit about Diane or the Supremes but truth be told your like a kid in a candy store because imo you say stuff to get the attention that you love are never get in the threads you start.

Thats all i have to say.

Roberta

[Lulu]

You anotther one that claim to not give a whit about Diane or the Supremes but truth be told your like a kid in a candy store because imo you say stuff to get the attention that you love are never get in the threads you start.

Thats all i have to say.

Roberta

Exactly. This guy encouraged me to join Steve Hoffman's forum. There was a very CLEAN convo. going on about Diana Ross's solo collection and how to compile RCA and Motown seamlessly. I provided my insight and boop! done. No arguing, no name calling, etc. After "Funny Girl" I posted a forum about the remastering job and how much I enjoyed hearing Mary & Cindy's voices up front. No one has responded but I'm not going to get all pissy and go into the Ted Nugent forum and start heckling everybody!!!

[rovereab]

I like both the original and Motown-adjusted songs on this album except the original My Old Piano which I think lacks vitality and really "drags" along.

I think the final mix of the whole album is more like the Chic-lite style of David Bowie's Let's Dance album. Whatever the views are, this album is one of Diana's and Chic's finest.

[marv2]

I like both the original and Motown-adjusted songs on this album except the original My Old Piano which I think lacks vitality and really "drags" along.

I think the final mix of the whole album is more like the Chic-lite style of David Bowie's Let's Dance album. Whatever the views are, this album is one of Diana's and Chic's finest.

After this one, it was all down hill.............

[rovereab]

Not sure what you mean marv2? Are you thinking that this was Diana's last great album?

[marv2]

Not sure what you mean marv2? Are you thinking that this was Diana's last great album?

I meant that this was one of her best albums in my opinion [[and not because it sold a lot....) that most of, if not all of her efforts afterwards did not come close to this one in terms of cohesiveness or to be blunt.....sales!

[rovereab]

I must dig out my vinyl copy from the loft because I am convinced that the track listing on the cover is completely different to the actual LP.

[ralpht]

Roberta,
You know how much I like you, but I still don't see any offensive remarks by Marv in this thread. So...the thread stands.

[Roberta75]

Roberta,
You know how much I like you, but I still don't see any offensive remarks by Marv in this thread. So...the thread stands.

I respect your decision dear Ralph but I was talking in more generel terms about given marv2s dislike of Diane Ross wouldnt it be best for this here forum if marv start avoiding Diane Ross threads like I avoid Gladys Knight threads. Again its your forum and you decision Ralph so thats all I have to say.

Fondly,

Roberta

[soulster]

Yes he did do it on this FORUM...not this thread.

Link?


Either way, here you are again with your ridiculous sweeping generalizations based on the little bubble you live in.

What generalizations? What bubble? Can you be specific?


I've told you time and time again, I have ZERO interest in any of these singers personal lives so "there are many people who don't like Diana Ross" I hope means her music and not her as a person.

It doesn't matter.


You don't know her so I'm not sure what gives you the right to even go there as the comment was regarding the author of that blog post calling her a "b*tch" and I do not believe conversations about that or that language add anything to these music discussions.

So, ignore them.


I think Roman Polanski is a perv. Can I get through a film forum on Rosemary's Baby without bringing that up? Yes. It's what mature, worldly educated adults do. His behavior has NOTHING to do with a movie that I enjoy immensely. Is Donald Sterling a racist pig? Yes. Does that mean I'm going to bring that up discussing a Clippers game? Nope.

So, get through this thread and forum without calling Marv out. After all, that's what mature and worldly educated adults do.


I have ZERO interest in starting any sort of Diana Ross group, forum, fan club, etc. There are numerous ones out there and ones that, as I've stated, DO NOT TOLERATE THIS HIDEOUS BEHAVIOR. You call Mary Wilson a name? You're banned...that's all.

So, your point is...

[soulster]

No one has responded but I'm not going to get all pissy and go into the Ted Nugent forum and start heckling everybody!!! You should!

[Roberta75]

Link?



What generalizations? What bubble? Can you be specific?



It doesn't matter.



So, ignore them.



So, get through this thread and forum without calling Marv out. After all, that's what mature and worldly educated adults do.



So, your point is...

Ignore him Lulu. He want to keep this going.

Roberta

[soulster]

After this one, it was all down hill............. I disagree. her first on RCA was really good.

[soulster]

I respect your decision dear Ralph but I was talking in more generel terms about given marv2s dislike of Diane Ross wouldnt it be best for this here forum if marv start avoiding Diane Ross threads like I avoid Gladys Knight threads. Again its your forum and you decision Ralph so thats all I have to say.

Fondly,

Roberta
Ralph can't go around banning forum members just because of their opinions. If you really want him to play by those rules, you, me, Lulu, and a whole lot of others could be gone from here too. fair is fair. So, be careful of what you wish for.

That's all I have to say because I have a barbecue to get to.

[Roberta75]

That's all I have to say because I have a barbecue to get to.

Hopefully its a real long one. Have fun dear.

Roberta

[Roberta75]

Ralph can't go around banning forum members just because of their opinions. If you really want him to play by those rules, you, me, Lulu, and a whole lot of others could be gone from here too. fair is fair. So, be careful of what you wish for. .

Where in this here forum did I request that anyone get ban?

[marv2]

Hopefully its a real long one. Have fun dear.

Roberta

Was that necessary? Why do you have to be that way towards Soulster all the time?

[Roberta75]

Was that necessary? Why do you have to be that way towards Soulster all the time?

Listen I ask you last week to ignore me and id ignore you so kindly mind your own business.

Respectfully.

Roberta

[marv2]

Listen I ask you last week to ignore me and id ignore you so kindly mind your own business.

Respectfully.

Roberta

You seem so bitter.......... I will pray that God will take the bitterness from you so you can be happy.

[luke]

This is hysterical. A post which is very clear about Diana's character and people attackMarv. Now I will get attacked by the usuals too. Do they think people cant see that if anyone says anything honest about Diana's character they get attacked? lol--where are all these same righteous people when Mary Wilson gets torn apart by posters here??? Nothing is said. And this article isnt Marv's words they are someone else's. I know people who have left SD because they dont want to get attacked. Marv has the guts and some just cant stand it. Ralph thanks for your wisdom and objectivity. [[Im sure some people sure do want this thread zapped because the post tells the truth!)

[Roberta75]

You seem so bitter.......... I will pray that God will take the bitterness from you so you can be happy.


I sincerely appreciate you prayers and thank you for them marv2 and please know in you heart that Im also praying for you too. Im praying that the Almighty Father guide you to a tolorance and respect for the GLBT community and I’m praying to our Father in Heaven that he can make you think before you go wringing cruel and hateful remarks about homosexual gentlemen. I know in your heart that you are a real good person so I offer you love and light and compassion for those different from you and I offer this prayer with my love and blessings.

God, please show Marv how to find the way of patience and tolerance and kindness and Love in his heart and his mind and his soul. Blessed Lord, show Marv how to demonstrate these principles to those different from him especially the GLBT community. I ask this in the name off your son Jesus Christ who was crucified on the cross so that we may all be forgiven. I ask this for compassionate reasons only dearest Father and I will continue to do my bit for tolerance and acceptance of all of your children on this here earth.

Your obedient and loving servant.

Roberta

[marv2]

This is hysterical. A post which is very clear about Diana's character and people attackMarv. Now I will get attacked by the usuals too. Do they think people cant see that if anyone says anything honest about Diana's character they get attacked? lol--where are all these same righteous people when Mary Wilson gets torn apart by posters here??? Nothing is said. And this article isnt Marv's words they are someone else's. I know people who have left SD because they dont want to get attacked. Marv has the guts and some just cant stand it. Ralph thanks for your wisdom and objectivity. [[Im sure some people sure do want this thread zapped because the post tells the truth!)

Luke, I hope this thread does not get zapped. I think it is a good review by the way. I
get attack for just being here so what else is new? I didn't know that Diana Ross is only to receive praise .Maybe the guy that wrote the review has met Diane?

[whitesoxx]

There is nothing historic or objective about the article.

Anyway, the "diana" album would not have done as well had the original Chic mix been released. Ms Ross and Russ Terrana did the right thing remixing the album.

[Roberta75]

This is hysterical. A post which is very clear about Diana's character and people attackMarv. Now I will get attacked by the usuals too. Do they think people cant see that if anyone says anything honest about Diana's character they get attacked? lol--where are all these same righteous people when Mary Wilson gets torn apart by posters here??? Nothing is said. And this article isnt Marv's words they are someone else's. I know people who have left SD because they dont want to get attacked. Marv has the guts and some just cant stand it. Ralph thanks for your wisdom and objectivity. [[Im sure some people sure do want this thread zapped because the post tells the truth!)

Bless you for being the voice of reason Luke. You are a real bright light in this here forum.

Fondly,

Roberta

[luke]

Articles and biographies all do the same thing-the person's work and their character and life. Why should DIana Ross' be any different from Marvin Gaye, Patti Labelle's, Barbara Striesand or anyone else's?We know tons about them. As the writer says -Ross just happens to the the biggest diva of all thus generating much to report. What is objective about the slurs thrown at Mary Wilson here?-and not by writers but by members?? I respect Diana's talent, charisma and some of her music but because I dont like people getting personally attacked and am a Mary fan I get it too. I like both versions of the album.

[marv2]

Articles and biographies all do the same thing-the person's work and their character and life. Why should DIana Ross' be any different from Marvin Gaye, Patti Labelle's, Barbara Striesand or anyone else's?We know tons about them. As the writer says -Ross just happens to the the biggest diva of all thus generating much to report. What is objective about the slurs thrown at Mary Wilson here?-and not by writers but by members?? I respect Diana's talent, charisma and some of her music but because I dont like people getting personally attacked and am a Mary fan I get it too. I like both versions of the album.

Luke I have seen for myself you being attack and for just asking a question. Some of these people are hypocrites and have no shame. To me, Diane is just an ok singer but she has not had any real success in several decades now, so for all intents and purposes she is retired in my mind. I think they blame me and others because of that fact in some strange warped way.......

[Jimi LaLumia]

If touring nationally in major rooms[[like The Theatre @ Madison Square) and being the central character of a mega successful Broadway show makes Diana Ross retired, then what on earth is Mary Wilson?...lolololol

[ralpht]

Okay, stay on topic and cease the bickering or I will have to zap the thread. This is a fairly interesting topic. Keep it that way.

[marv2]

If touring nationally in major rooms[[like The Theatre @ Madison Square) and being the central character of a mega successful Broadway show makes Diana Ross retired, then what on earth is Mary Wilson?...lolololol

It makes her a Supreme Survivor is about to headline at the Kentucky Derby Gala this month, the Jamaica Jazz Festival and completing her next movie role in the film...."The Game".

[marv2]

Alright, when the lead single from this album hit the top 10 in August 1980......34 years ago? Wow, I did not expect the album to do as well as it eventually did. She should have followed up with another one produced by Rodgers & Edwards.

[soulster]

You seem so bitter.......... I will pray that God will take the bitterness from you so you can be happy.
And please stay positive! :)

[marv2]

And please stay positive! :)

You are exactly right and by all means everyone..........Please Stay Positive!

[soulster]

I sincerely appreciate you prayers and thank you for them marv2 and please know in you heart that Im also praying for you too. Im praying that the Almighty Father guide you to a tolorance and respect for the GLBT community and I’m praying to our Father in Heaven that he can make you think before you go wringing cruel and hateful remarks about homosexual gentlemen. I know in your heart that you are a real good person so I offer you love and light and compassion for those different from you and I offer this prayer with my love and blessings.

God, please show Marv how to find the way of patience and tolerance and kindness and Love in his heart and his mind and his soul. Blessed Lord, show Marv how to demonstrate these principles to those different from him especially the GLBT community. I ask this in the name off your son Jesus Christ who was crucified on the cross so that we may all be forgiven. I ask this for compassionate reasons only dearest Father and I will continue to do my bit for tolerance and acceptance of all of your children on this here earth.

Your obedient and loving servant.

Roberta
And, why do you push LBGT on here all the time? You bring it up in every single thread! I think Marv is 100% correct about the multiple accounts on this forum by one or two people pushing an agenda.


Okay, stay on topic and cease the bickering or I will have to zap the thread. This is a fairly interesting topic. Keep it that way.

OK, I read this after I posted. I would rather talk about the album anyway.

[Roberta75]

And, why do you push LBGT on here all the time? You bring it up in every single thread! I think Marv is 100% correct about the multiple accounts on this forum by one or two people pushing an agenda.

OK, I read this after I posted. I would rather talk about the album anyway.

Hope you enjoyed your BBq dear soulster.

Have a blessed and beautiful weekend.

Roberta

[LadyLola]

Makes for good reading of historical stuff about Diane...........

http://popdose.com/when-good-albums-happen-to-bad-people-diana-ross-diana/

When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Diana Ross, “Diana”


Matthew Bolin
on March 18, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Berry Gordy is a powerful man. Not only did he found Motown Records, building a musical empire that allowed blacks to crossover into what had pretty much been a white-controlled music industry, but almost as amazing, he was able to convince a young Diana Ross that her crap doesn’t stink, and she has not deviated from that belief one iota over the past 45 or so years. In an industry of big egos, the one belonging to Miss Ross [[remember, she must be addressed as such or you will be thrown out — and don’t you dare look her in the eyes!) is likely the biggest, and she has wielded it to not only obtain her huge success, but to build herself into a prick so immense that it would make porn stars gasp. Here are but a few examples of Miss Ross in action:

• While neither the best singer nor most attractive member of the Supremes, Ross did have one important thing up her sleeve, namely, Mr. Gordy’s penis. After unsuccessfully pursuing Smokey Robinson, Ross set her sights on [[the married and 15 years older) Gordy. As the mistress of Motown’s founder, she was able to gain full power over the group, becoming its lead singer, getting its name changed to Diana Ross & the Supremes, and upstaging the other members, eventually leaving and employing the full power of the Motown promotional machine behind her solo career, while the Supremes were left to sputter out slowly over the course of the ’70s. Ross, meanwhile, ended up bearing Gordy’s child in 1971, but did not publicly acknowledge who the real father was for 22 years, until she released and was promoting her autobiography [[which actually didn’t mention who the father was, either).

• Not only did she upstage the other Supremes throughout their career, she upstaged former Supreme Florence Ballard at Ballard’s own funeral. She went up to the front of the church during the service, grabbed the mike, and announced that she and Mary Wilson were going to lead a silent prayer. Wilson at the time was in a back pew and had no idea what was going on.

• In 1983, she agreed to do a one-off Supremes reunion with Wilson and Cindy Birdsong [[Ballard’s replacement in the group) for the Motown 25 TV special. But Ross said she would only do one song instead of the requested four, and refused to practice for it. She also wanted the other two women behind her throughout the song, and when Wilson, who wasn’t informed of Ross’ demand, tried to step forward during the performance, Ross shoved her [[this part was cut out of the final broadcast).

• In 2000, she announced that there would finally be a Supremes reunion tour with Wilson and Birdsong, but the other two women refused to take part in it when they received the Ross-approved financial breakdown: $20 million in full tour appearance fees with $15 million going to Ross, $4 million to Wilson, and $1 million to Birdsong. Ross proceeded to then get two other former Supremes to join her [[women who had joined the group in the mid-’70s long after Ross had left), and then explained at a press conference that it was a viable reunion because the Supremes were an “ever-changing unit.” Needless to say, fans were unhappy, and the tour was canceled halfway through its proposed itinerary due to low ticket sales.

On top of that, there are a litany of other tales: the explosions in airports and on airplanes, including trying to sneak her dog on a flight hidden in a hatbox, then beating a stewardess with the box while her dog was still in it when the attendant told her she couldn’t bring the box on board because it was barking; constantly firing staff members, including one time firing the entire eight-person staff who served her apartment after an unflattering story about her private behavior appeared in the papers — then sending out a swath of letters trying to blacklist all the staff members from working again; giving her building’s manager, staff, etc. a Christmas bonus consisting of an autographed copy of her latest album [[cost to Miss Ross: zilch). I could go on, but my teeth are being worn down in fits of rage. Suffice it to say, Miss Ross is a grade-A asshole.

Also, suffice it to say, she has put out her share of good music over the course of time; though, honestly, never a really strong album, either with the Supremes, or as a solo artist. She has always been a tremendous singles artist, but a combination of weaker material, “problematic” arrangements [[see Jon Cummings’ Worst #1 Songs of the 70s for proof of this), and Ross’ somewhat limited and nasally voice has kept her from assembling a solid disc from front to back. There is one exception, though: the Good Album for this Bad Person; and that’s 1980′s Diana.

Written and produced by Bernard Edwards and Nile Rodgers, and performed by their band, Chic, Diana was a consistent, catchy album. Gone were the maudlin ballads and safe pop workouts. Instead the tight, eight-song, 34-minute album contained tracks combining funk, post-disco dance jams, and even a bit of proto-new-wave arrangements. Two of the most upbeat songs became top 10 smashes: “Upside Down” and “I’m Coming Out.” All in all, it was a solid piece of work, and in my opinion, Ross’s LP highpoint.

However …

Miss Ross couldn’t leave well enough alone. As such, there is a better version of this album than the one the public is familiar with. You see, after hiring Chic to write and produce an album for her, Ross dismissed the mix that Edwards and Rodgers turned in as sounding too much like “A Chic album featuring Diana Ross,” and personally oversaw the remixing of the album, making it more “mainstream”: songs were sped up, instrumental sections were shortened, the rhythm section was buried lower in the mix, and Ross’s vocals were redone to sound sweeter. In effect, Ross realized she didn’t want a Chic album, but a regular Diana Ross album with Chic-lite arrangements. The fact the album still holds up in its final form just shows the strength of the material and those who actually created it.

Not surprisingly, Edwards and Rodgers went ballistic, after having turned in what they were asked to do, then having their sound weakened. They demanded that their names be taken off as producers, not wanting to be labeled as responsible for the final product. In the end, Miss Ross won that battle, too, though you’ll be damned if you can find any footage of Ross performing any of the songs with Chic.

It wasn’t until 2003, with the “Deluxe” release of Diana, that people were able to hear the original Chic mix of the album, with its deeper grooves and original Ross vocals, which are more laid back and rawer, and fit the songs better than her re-recordings fit the remix. Compare, for instance, the well-known version of “I’m Coming Out” to the original Chic mix. For an even more dramatic change, compare the final version of “Friend to Friend” to the original Chic mix, with the full rhythm section intact, and Rodgers’ very progressive guitar solo up front. It goes to show [[at least I think it does) that a Bad Person can hurt a Good Album, as ego gets in the way of a superior product, making tough into smooth, ballsy into safe, and possibly even art into merely product.


The whole article sounds like a load of shit to me. Written by some bitter old queen.

[marv2]

The whole article sounds like a load of shit to me. Written by some bitter old queen.

I thought it was a great article. Very accurate, very factual!

[smark21]

I wonder if fans of Shantal Baker and the Supremes group are as divided into such warring factions as fans of Diana Ross and the Supremes?

[marv2]

There is nothing historic or objective about the article.

Anyway, the "diana" album would not have done as well had the original Chic mix been released. Ms Ross and Russ Terrana did the right thing remixing the album.

I would have to disagree Whitesoxx. The review is of an album that is now 34 years old [[trust me, that is historic when comes to Rock/Pop music. LOL!) . and it is quite objective. Read it again......

[marv2]

ONe has to understand that everytime Diana Ross goes on tour and gets good reviews, Marv tends to get very agitated and acts out.

No that is not true. Only thing I find remotely interesting about Diane going out on tour every year is that for the longest time she would say that she hates touring! Makes you wonder then why is she going out on tour every year? hmmmmmmm? LOL!

Everyone else does it because they need to make money.

[marv2]

And, why do you push LBGT on here all the time? You bring it up in every single thread! I think Marv is 100% correct about the multiple accounts on this forum by one or two people pushing an agenda.



OK, I read this after I posted. I would rather talk about the album anyway.

You ever listened to that song, "Now That You're Gone" from this album? Sounds very similar to Chic's own recording of "A Warm Summer Night" to me. What do you think?

[marv2]

She didn't say that she didn't like touring. She said she disliked the traveling part. This is why when she tours it is generally for short spans of time. She will take time off and then resume.

Oh ok, so touring does not necessarily mean traveling? I think I get it.

[skooldem1]

She said she loves to perform, but hates the packing and unpacking.

[marv2]

She said she loves to perform, but hates the packing and unpacking.

Oh ok so she would rather everyone that wants to hear her come to her house? I know she does house parties.

[skooldem1]

You would have to ask her.

[marv2]

You would have to ask her.

We don't talk anymore............hehehehehehehe.......

[marv2]

She said she loves to perform, but hates the packing and unpacking.

So, if she doesn't like touring [[which the last dictionary I checked with says it means traveling....) and she hates packing and unpacking...................then why would a super wealthy woman put herself through all of that and please do not say because she loves the fans, hehehehehehehe..........!!!

[marv2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9uiouUw2PY&feature=youtu.be

So the Chic mixes were too smooth, ah ha! I never heard that before.

[soulster]

So the Chic mixes were too smooth, ah ha! I never heard that before.
To be fair, maybe Russ meant "smooth", as in lack of apparent dynamics, or the liberal use of compression during mixing.

[soulster]

You ever listened to that song, "Now That You're Gone" from this album? Sounds very similar to Chic's own recording of "A Warm Summer Night" to me. What do you think?

Not even close, IMO. To me, Sister Sledge's "I'm A Good Girl" is closer. That song, and "A Warm Summer Night", were recorded closer together anyway.

[marv2]

Not even close, IMO. To me, Sister Sledge's "I'm A Good Girl" is closer. That song, and "A Warm Summer Night", were recorded closer together anyway.

This is the song? You are right, it does remind me more of "A Warm Summer Night". I have this album by the Sledges too. I haven't listen to many of these songs in well over 20 years so I did not remember it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D3Dlrv-bIg

[marv2]

That cut by Sister Sledge sounds very much like it could have been a Chic record.

[captainjames]

I love the remix of diana by Russ and Diana. It was the right choice !! the Best Choice !!!

[marv2]

I love the remix of diana by Russ and Diana. It was the right choice !! the Best Choice !!!

It was the right choice to sell records that's for sure!

[marv2]

I love the remix of diana by Russ and Diana. It was the right choice !! the Best Choice !!!

Have you ever had the chance to hear the original mixes? I haven't but am curious to learn what they sounded like.

[soulster]

This is the song? You are right, it does remind me more of "A Warm Summer Night". I have this album by the Sledges too. I haven't listen to many of these songs in well over 20 years so I did not remember it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D3Dlrv-bIg
I didn't buy the album until seven months after it was released, so I consider it a "summer" album. I plan to add it to my car USB soon. It sounds great on CD. I bought it when Rhino reissued it back in the 90s. I have all the Sister Sledge CDs that were on the Cotillion and Atlantic labels on CD except "The Sisters", which I transferred and restored from the vinyl record.

[soulster]

That cut by Sister Sledge sounds very much like it could have been a Chic record.
It may have originally been intended for Chic. Unless my memory is off, "I Want Your Love" was originally written as a Sister Sledge track. I think that changed when they decided to write the song "We Are Family" for them.

[marv2]

I didn't buy the album until seven months after it was released, so I consider it a "summer" album. I plan to add it to my car USB soon. It sounds great on CD. I bought it when Rhino reissued it back in the 90s. I have all the Sister Sledge CDs that were on the Cotillion and Atlantic labels on CD except "The Sisters", which I transferred and restored from the vinyl record.

This was when they were at the peak of their talents and popularity. Back then I think I bought albums just about every week! LOL!

[soulster]

I love the remix of diana by Russ and Diana. It was the right choice !! the Best Choice !!! I agree. Although, I do like the original Bob Clearmountain mix of "Tenderness" and "Now That You're Gone", and "Have Fun [[Again)". The latter sounds correct the way Chic produced it. "Give Up" was left almost unchanged.

[marv2]

I agree. Although, I do like the original Bob Clearmountain mix of "Tenderness" and "Now That You're Gone", and "Have Fun [[Again)". The latter sounds correct the way Chic produced it. "Give Up" was left almost unchanged.

the Have Fun Again, song didn't sound right or make sense to me for some reason. Something about her voice was off on that one. the entire song sounded a little too sparse to me.

[soulster]

This was when they were at the peak of their talents and popularity. Back then I think I bought albums just about every week! LOL!

Me too. Back in the 80s, when I still had military privileges, I would go up to the PX every weekend and buy a stack of albums. In the 90s, I would buy a stack of CDs every Tuesday morning. I would get a newsletter called ICE and pick out all the upcoming CD releases I wanted. Those were the good days, indeed!

[marv2]

Me too. Back in the 80s, when I still had military privileges, I would go up to the PX every weekend and buy a stack of albums. In the 90s, I would buy a stack of CDs every Tuesday morning. I would get a newsletter called ICE and pick out all the upcoming CD releases I wanted. Those were the good days, indeed!

Totally good days. Around 1995 I kind of just drifted away from buying lots of music. I knew all the best stores even in the small towns and cities where I traveled. But after CD's really caught on, I would only buy a few a year. Still, I have a music collection of approx 3,000 albums and Cd's combinedQ! LOL

[soulster]

Totally good days. Around 1995 I kind of just drifted away from buying lots of music. I knew all the best stores even in the small towns and cities where I traveled. But after CD's really caught on, I would only buy a few a year. Still, I have a music collection of approx 3,000 albums and Cd's combined! LOL

I have somewhere around 9000 CDs and records, combined, and scads of 45s. I bought more CDs mainly because I love comps. I collected tons of oldies in the late 80s and 90s. When I ripped my CDs, I went through three burners and utilized three computers to get it done.

[soulster]

the Have Fun Again, song didn't sound right or make sense to me for some reason. Something about her voice was off on that one. the entire song sounded a little too sparse to me. Her voice wasn't off, some of it was done "ad-lib", and didn't sound very good. Russ did a good job of editing those parts out and whittling the song down. It sounds like Diana either re-did some vocals or used different takes.

But, as far as the overall production of it, I like the Chic version.

[marv2]

I have somewhere around 9000 CDs and records, combined, and scads of 45s. I bought more CDs mainly because I love comps. I collected tons of oldies in the late 80s and 90s. When I ripped my CDs, I went through three burners and utilized three computers to get it done.

Yeah you got me beat! My oldies collecting days spanned from about 1980- 91. Record shows, flea markets and oldies/used record shops all over the place.

[marv2]

Her voice wasn't off, some of it was done "ad-lib", and didn't sound very good. Russ did a good job of editing those parts out and whittling the song down. It sounds like Diana either re-did some vocals or used different takes.

But, as far as the overall production of it, I like the Chic version.

Sounded like she was having problems with the lyrics.

[supremester]

Do you prefer the Chic version on every cut, or which ones? I like a mix.
Her voice wasn't off, some of it was done "ad-lib", and didn't sound very good. Russ did a good job of editing those parts out and whittling the song down. It sounds like Diana either re-did some vocals or used different takes.

But, as far as the overall production of it, I like the Chic version.

[soulster]

Yeah you got me beat! My oldies collecting days spanned from about 1980- 91. Record shows, flea markets and oldies/used record shops all over the place. Oh yeah, my oldies collecting started in 1981, but when the CD came out, I went crazy with it, especially with all the mono single mixes finally reappearing.

[soulster]

Sounded like she was having problems with the lyrics. The way I understand it is that they wanted spontaneity, something that Ross wasn't used to at that point. Remember that, up until that point, she had developed strict discipline in the studio because that was Motown's way of doing things. She wanted artistic freedom and wanted to try different things, to cut loose. That's why you hear her trying to loosen up on that album. Of course, she had a change of heart when she got that test pressing. It's somewhat the same thing with Marvin Gaye and his "What's Going On" album.

The strict discipline and conservative mindset is the one thing that always annoyed artists about Motown, which is why many og them left the label. It also bothered a lot of R&B fans, which is why many prefer the rawer, grittier sounds of Stax and Muscle Shoals.

[soulster]

Do you prefer the Chic version on every cut, or which ones? I like a mix.

Good question!

Here's how I break it down:
Upside Down - both
Tenderness - Bob Clearmountain mix
Friend To Friend - Bob Clearmountain mix
I'm Coming Out - Russ Terrana mix
Have Fun [[Again) - Russ Terrana mix
My Old Piano - Russ Terrana mix
Now That's You're Gone - Bob Clearmountain mix
Give Up - Bob Clearmountain mix

So, for me it's an almost split with Chic having the edge. The songs where I prefer the Teranna version is where the vocals were all wrong, and the songs were just too damn long. In the case of "My Old Piano", her vocals were mixed way too loud in the Clearmountain mix, and too much emphasis was given to the instrumental interplay near the end.

I was going to say that the two versions of "Give Up" were negligible until I was reminded of the cool little breakdown near the end of the song, which made me give the edge to Chic.

[marv2]

It would have been interested to hear what Chic could have done with Michael Jackson.

[soulster]

It would have been interested to hear what Chic could have done with Michael Jackson.
Hmmmmmm...Naaaah!

[marv2]

Hmmmmmm...Naaaah!

hehehehehehehehe, why not??

[soulster]

hehehehehehehehe, why not?? I can't hear it.

[marv2]

Were there any music videos made for this album?

[Lulu]

Were there any music videos made for this album?

"My Old Piano":


http://youtu.be/T6ahzLGK_VY

[marv2]

"My Old Piano":


http://youtu.be/T6ahzLGK_VY

Thank you Lulu, although I never felt that this particular song was very strong.

[Lulu]

Thank you Lulu, although I never felt that this particular song was very strong.

I dig the instrumental...particularly on the original 'nard/Nile mix. I understand it was quite popular "abroad" but then again so was that Doobe song that I'm not even going to try to spell out! :rolleyes:

[gary_james]

Upside Down with No lead vocal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3bRzWwuWG0

[soulster]

I think "My Old Piano" is one of the best songs on the album.

[smark21]

I like the music on My Old Piano but the lyrics aren't the best. But I've never been crazy about love songs in which the singer compares her love to a piece of equipment, whether it be an old piano or a driving wheel.

[stephanie]

I never cared for the Diana album the only song I liked on here was Upside Down. I thought the songs were childish and silly. Yes Im wrong it sold a lot but so did Ring My Bell! Old Piano is a good catchy tune but what made Im Coming Out so strong is that beginning it really shakes up your ears. Chic was more tailored to Sister Sledge if you ask me and of course their own songs with their own band. The cover helped the sales of that album as well it got a lot of attention. The Boss was a good album! I only like Diana Ross the best when her voice is being pushed by a Michael Masser or an Ashford and Simpson. I can listen to her Motown albums over and over and some of the RCA songs but this particular one its hard for me to get through.

[soulster]

I like the music on My Old Piano but the lyrics aren't the best. But I've never been crazy about love songs in which the singer compares her love to a piece of equipment, whether it be an old piano or a driving wheel.

But, the song really IS about her piano! It was there in the middle of her living room, so Nile and 'Nard wrote song about it.

[jillfoster]

I have to say I prefer the Terrana mixes from an instrumental standpoint. When it comes to the vocals, I like the Chic mixes best. That review was a hoot, I had never heard the story about her hitting the stewardess with a wig box with the dog still in it! These days you'd get sent to the federal pen for such behavior. That's why I don't fly.. you raise your voice at a snotty stewardess, she'll call the damn cops.

[marv2]

I have to say I prefer the Terrana mixes from an instrumental standpoint. When it comes to the vocals, I like the Chic mixes best. That review was a hoot, I had never heard the story about her hitting the stewardess with a wig box with the dog still in it! These days you'd get sent to the federal pen for such behavior. That's why I don't fly.. you raise your voice at a snotty stewardess, she'll call the damn cops.

Well she did attack that stewardess before 9/11 had occurred and Homeland Security, etc, etc. Motown still had to pay the stewardess and the airline not to press assault charges against Ross..........

[Crystaledwards]

Well she did attack that stewardess before 9/11 had occurred and Homeland Security, etc, etc. Motown still had to pay the stewardess and the airline not to press assault charges against Ross..........

How much did Motown have to pay the stewardess and the airline? Which airline was this and where and when did this attack take place?

CE

[marv2]

How much did Motown have to pay the stewardess and the airline? Which airline was this and where and when did this attack take place?

CE

I don't know how much they paid, but it was the now defunct Western Airlines. It happened at the ticket counter in Burbank, CA in September 1966.

[smark21]

But, the song really IS about her piano! It was there in the middle of her living room, so Nile and 'Nard wrote song about it.

I didn't know that. I thought it was just symbolism. Interesting though. I wonder if the Hollands wrote Driving Wheel for MSS because the ladies loved the steering wheels of the cars they owned at the time?

[Crystaledwards]

I don't know how much they paid, but it was the now defunct Western Airlines. It happened at the ticket counter in Burbank, CA in September 1966.

I cannot find one single link to back up your claim. Perhaps Motown paid Google to wipe the incident from their search engine.

Kindly provide a link to this Western Airlines attack.

CE

[Crystaledwards]

I don't know how much they paid, but it was the now defunct Western Airlines. It happened at the ticket counter in Burbank, CA in September 1966.

Why would a stewardess be working the ticket counter? Wouldn't she be onboard welcoming people onto the plane?

CE

[marv2]

Why would a stewardess be working the ticket counter? Wouldn't she be onboard welcoming people onto the plane?

CE

I don't know. I was like maybe 6 years old back then. You might try contacting Diane or Joe Schaffner and asking them. They were there when Diane began beating the woman in the head with the box with the dog in it. Maybe the author of this album review should have just used the term "airline employee" or "airline ticket agent" . Maybe then it would have made it easier for you to understand what happened. I think most people reading this account would immediately grasp the situation, but I also recognize that there are people just a bit slower than others. That's nothing to be ashamed of, but it must make things a bit difficult for you in this fast paced World we live in.

[marv2]

I cannot find one single link to back up your claim. Perhaps Motown paid Google to wipe the incident from their search engine.

Kindly provide a link to this Western Airlines attack.

CE

It is not my claim. I was in grade school at Glenwood Elementary School at the time this happen. If you read the the beginning of the album review, you will see that it is the author that makes this claim. I don't believe he provided a link to back up his claim that Diana Ross used a dog and a hatbox to beat a woman working for Western Airlines in the head...........but I will! LOL!!!!

http://books.google.com/books?id=7no6LinKMwkC&pg=PA152&dq=diana+ross+hatbox&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nyqFU8CrOI2MyATGhIKICg&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=diana%20ross%20hatbox&f=false

[marv2]

I didn't know that. I thought it was just symbolism. Interesting though. I wonder if the Hollands wrote Driving Wheel for MSS because the ladies loved the steering wheels of the cars they owned at the time?

Now that would be an interesting concept, but let's examine the lyrics to the Supremes' "You're My Driving Wheel":

"You're My Driving Wheel"


[All:]
You're my driving wheel

[Scherrie:]
Feels good, baby

[All:]
You take me farther

[Susaye:]
Ooh!

[All:]
Than I've been before

[Scherrie:]
Ride, ride, ride, ride

[All:]
You're my driving wheel

[Scherrie:]
Feels so good , baby!

[All:]
Just one touch

[Mary/Susaye:]
Ow!/Ooh!

[All:]
Opens up my door

[Scherrie:]
You're the engine that keeps me running
You're the motor that keeps me coming:
To the road that keeps on winding
Coming to the love
I keep on finding
Every time you touch me

[All:]
Starts my motor running
I like the way you keep it humming
Keeps my motor running
I like the way you keep it humming,

[Mary:]
Hey!

[All:]
You're my driving wheel

[Scherrie:]
You better believe it, baby

[All:]
You take me farther

[Susaye:]
Whoo!

[All/Susaye harmonizes:]
Than I've been before

[Scherrie:]
Than I've been before, yeah

[All:]
You're my driving wheel

[Scherrie:]
My driving wheel, baby

[All:]
Just one touch--Ow!

[All/Susaye harmonizes:]
Opens up my door

[Scherrie:]
Opens up my door
Ain't a road in life
I can't travel
As long as I know you're there
Ain't no map I can't unravel
As long as I know you care
Every time you touch me

[All:]
Starts my motor running
I like the way you keep it humming
Keeps my motor running
I like the way you keep it humming, Oh!

[All:]
You're my driving wheel

[Scherrie:]
I can't hear ya now

[All:]
You take me farther

[Scherrie:]
Uh huh

[All:]
Than I've been before

[Scherrie:]
Than I've been before-

[All:]
You're my driving wheel
Just one touch
Opens up my door

[Scherrie:]
Uh huh:
Uh huh, Uh huh, Uh huh huh,
Uh huh, Uh huh huh, Uh huh
Uh huh, huh, huh

[All:]
You're my driving wheel

[Scherrie:]
Driving wheel, baby

[All:]
You take me farther

[Susaye:]
Ooh!

[All/Susaye harmonizes:]
Than I've been before

[Scherrie:]
Than I've been before

[All:]
You're my driving wheel

[Scherrie:]
Drive me crazy, baby!

[All:]
Just one touch
Opens up my door

[Scherrie:]
Opens up my door, yeah

[All:]
You're my driving wheel

[Scherrie:]
My driving wheel, baby

[All:]
You take me farther
Than I've been before

[Susaye:]
Yeah, yeah, ooh!

[All:]
You're my driving wheel

[Scherrie:]
You're my driving wheel, baby

[All:]
Just one touch

[Scherrie:]
Just one touch

[All/Susaye harmonizes:]
Opens up my door

[Scherrie:]
Opens up my door, yeah

[All:]
You're my driving wheel

[Scherrie:]
You keep me moving, baby

[All:]
You take me farther

[Scherrie:]
You take me farther

[All:]
Than I've been before

[Scherrie:]
Than I've been before

[All:]
You're my driving wheel

[Scherrie:]
You keep me groovin', baby

[Crystaledwards]

I don't know. I was like maybe 6 years old back then. You might try contacting Diane or Joe Schaffner and asking them. They were there when Diane began beating the woman in the head with the box with the dog in it. Maybe the author of this album review should have just used the term "airline employee" or "airline ticket agent" . Maybe then it would have made it easier for you to understand what happened. I think most people reading this account would immediately grasp the situation, but I also recognize that there are people just a bit slower than others. That's nothing to be ashamed of, but it must make things a bit difficult for you in this fast paced World we live in.

There’s nothing like watching a fool congratulate themselves on another successful attack on the person as if it was the decisive point in the argument.

CE

[Crystaledwards]

It is not my claim. I was in grade school at Glenwood Elementary School at the time this happen. If you read the the beginning of the album review, you will see that it is the author that makes this claim. I don't believe he provided a link to back up his claim that Diana Ross used a dog and a hatbox to beat a woman working for Western Airlines in the head...........but I will! LOL!!!!

http://books.google.com/books?id=7no6LinKMwkC&pg=PA152&dq=diana+ross+hatbox&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nyqFU8CrOI2MyATGhIKICg&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=diana%20ross%20hatbox&f=false

Oh please do provide the link. I am especially interested in how much Motown had to pay the airline and the woman Diana allegedly abused.

CE

[marv2]

Oh please do provide the link. I am especially interested in how much Motown had to pay the airline and the woman Diana allegedly abused.

CE

This exactly what I meant by some people being a bit slow. Click on the line that begins with "http://..........................." above. That is what is commonly refered to as a "link". You don't have to thank me, it is my pleasure to assist in your education.

[marv2]

I never cared for the Diana album the only song I liked on here was Upside Down. I thought the songs were childish and silly. Yes Im wrong it sold a lot but so did Ring My Bell! Old Piano is a good catchy tune but what made Im Coming Out so strong is that beginning it really shakes up your ears. Chic was more tailored to Sister Sledge if you ask me and of course their own songs with their own band. The cover helped the sales of that album as well it got a lot of attention. The Boss was a good album! I only like Diana Ross the best when her voice is being pushed by a Michael Masser or an Ashford and Simpson. I can listen to her Motown albums over and over and some of the RCA songs but this particular one its hard for me to get through.

It [[the album) did have a "sing-along" type quality to it! LOL! I mean none of the lyrics could be considered complexed and the singing is pretty marginal. The instrumentation and the production are what makes it work on some level.

[supremester]

What I mean by slow is a person such as YOU, who uses anything negative about Miss Ross that he can - even if he shhoots himself in the foot doing it. St Mary, in Dreamgirl: My Lies As A Supreme tells, on page 183, a completely different version of the sto-ray INCLUDING that Joe Shaffner never went to LA at all. LOL Just sayin' SLOW people don't catch on when people will say ANYTHING to sell a book. Literally ANYTHING, I hissed. So if that link is true, as I assume you purport, then Mary's ain't. LOL!!! hehehehehehehehehe

xo

[Crystaledwards]

This exactly what I meant by some people being a bit slow. Click on the line that begins with "http://..........................." above. That is what is commonly refered to as a "link". You don't have to thank me, it is my pleasure to assist in your education.

But your link Marvin, doesn't discuss the legal settlement. There are three sides to every story. The author's side, your side, and the truth. Memories shared serve each one differently. In your case we simply cannot trust your word anymore. If someone uses lies and fallacies enough, their name becomes connected to them. It is now valid to dismiss you based on your history here, even if you have something relevant to say. Your repetitive habits involve misinterpreting perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or or greatly exaggerated.

You have changed, and not for the better, since our last encounter at the Sugar Bar in Manhattan. I actually found you charming that evening.



CE

[marv2]

But your link Marvin, doesn't discuss the legal settlement. There are three sides to every story. The author's side, your side, and the truth. Memories shared serve each one differently. In your case we simply cannot trust your word anymore. If someone uses lies and fallacies enough, their name becomes connected to them. It is now valid to dismiss you based on your history here, even if you have something relevant to say. Your repetitive habits involve misinterpreting perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or or greatly exaggerated.

You have changed, and not for the better, since our last encounter at the Sugar Bar in Manhattan. I actually found you charming that evening.



CE


Well I am sure you appreciate that I was the only person trying to help you find information about this incident of Diana Ross beating an innocent person in the head with box that had a innocent dog inside. Hey, I know, maybe that guy named Randy Taraborelli could help you find more on it?

I have never been to the Sugar Bar. I know Nick & Val were the owners, but I have never been there. I use to like going to the Shark Bar near the Beacon Theater. Anyway, I think Ralph asked you just a few days ago to drop this idea you have of meeting me, you haven't. Take care now.

[Lulu]

But your link Marvin, doesn't discuss the legal settlement. There are three sides to every story. The author's side, your side, and the truth. Memories shared serve each one differently. In your case we simply cannot trust your word anymore. If someone uses lies and fallacies enough, their name becomes connected to them. It is now valid to dismiss you based on your history here, even if you have something relevant to say. Your repetitive habits involve misinterpreting perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or or greatly exaggerated.

You have changed, and not for the better, since our last encounter at the Sugar Bar in Manhattan. I actually found you charming that evening.



CE


Does anyone know if there was some "incident" between Miss Ross and Miss Taraborrelli which may explain the differences between her first book Diana [[1985) and Call Her Miss Ross and Diana Ross: A Biography? The first is a nice photographic/career focused chronicle and the later two books read like Peyton Place or Valley of the Dolls! Sure, they're entertaining and "soapy" but they read like novels which makes me wonder if Taraborrelli had some axe to grind and wanted some sort of retribution by writing such a "sensational" set of books that read nothing like well-researched biographies.

[supremester]

There may have been an incident at the Western ticket counter, but all 3 versions I've read vary greatly. JRT has a tendency to somehow include dialog in quotes as if he were there - when he wasn't and had no way of knowing the verbage. Makes for a better read, however. Ficticious, but a better read.

[jillfoster]

But your link Marvin, doesn't discuss the legal settlement. There are three sides to every story. The author's side, your side, and the truth. Memories shared serve each one differently. In your case we simply cannot trust your word anymore. If someone uses lies and fallacies enough, their name becomes connected to them. It is now valid to dismiss you based on your history here, even if you have something relevant to say. Your repetitive habits involve misinterpreting perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or or greatly exaggerated.

You have changed, and not for the better, since our last encounter at the Sugar Bar in Manhattan. I actually found you charming that evening.



CE

You have the link, dear. Taraborelli's story was from an INTERVIEW with Joe Shaffner. So Joe Shaffner is the source. Don't call Marv untrustworthy for simply repeating words that came out of Joe Shaffner's mouth.

[Crystaledwards]

Well I am sure you appreciate that I was the only person trying to help you find information about this incident of Diana Ross beating an innocent person in the head with box that had a innocent dog inside. Hey, I know, maybe that guy named Randy Taraborelli could help you find more on it?

I have never been to the Sugar Bar. I know Nick & Val were the owners, but I have never been there. I use to like going to the Shark Bar near the Beacon Theater. Anyway, I think Ralph asked you just a few days ago to drop this idea you have of meeting me, you haven't. Take care now.

Oh but you have been to the Sugar Bar dear heart, where you and I had a very pleasant encounter and I can prove it. Are you still using the same AOL e-mail address you gave me that night. I will happily send you a few photos to help you remember our little tête-à-tête at the Sugar Bar and the brief, but pleasant meeting we had at BB Kings over a decade ago I also forget things and people. Some days I can't find my house keys, my car, or my beloved cat.

I am still very much looking forward to your link detailing the financial settlement between Motown and Western Airlines, and their employee that Diana Ross allegedly abused.

CE

[Crystaledwards]

You have the link, dear. Taraborelli's story was from an INTERVIEW with Joe Shaffner. So Joe Shaffner is the source. Don't call Marv untrustworthy for simply repeating words that came out of Joe Shaffner's mouth.

Oh I have the link to the Taraborrelli story. It's the link detailing the financial settlement between Motown and Western Airlines, and the employee Diana Ross allegedly abused, that I am waiting for.

CE

[supremester]

But Mary says Joe Shaffner stayed in Vegas and Don Foster was the person with Miss Ross. Mary also stated all three Supremes went to LA that day for work. Who's telling the truth?


You have the link, dear. Taraborelli's story was from an INTERVIEW with Joe Shaffner. So Joe Shaffner is the source. Don't call Marv untrustworthy for simply repeating words that came out of Joe Shaffner's mouth.