Question about additional background vocals

[antceleb12]

The talk about "Funny Girl" and how Gordy added an additional chorus post-production got me thinking about how Gordy recorded additional vocals with his acts.

I know that Motown, like other companies, hid the fact that they used additional vocals from the public, but did Gordy try to hide this from his artists? Did he ever have the Andantes/additional choruses record their parts with the Supremes, Four Tops, etc.? I know he was inclined to mix these additional vocals, but how often did he forgo the use of group members and just use the chorus/Andantes [[as seems to be the case with the gospel album)?

I'm not asking why he did it, or whether it was right or wrong, blah, blah, blah. I am just interested in the technical side of the recording process and how the layers are put together.

[bradsupremes]

I think the artists knew very well additional voices were being used especially if they had to perform a song on TV which they may not have recorded. For instance, Mary & Cindy probably had to listen to "Forever Came Today" in order to learn the background vocals for their appearance on Sullivan. In the recording process, the Four Tops and the Andantes recorded their parts together. Louvain Demps has said in interviews about having fun with the guys in the studio. I think it was typical for the Andantes to record with their male counterparts together as it probably made it easier to create the harmony the producer may have been looking for. It was different for the girl groups though. Usually the Andantes added their vocals after the Marvelettes/Vandellas/Supremes/Velvelettes recorded their vocals. This may have been done: A.) The producers were not satisfied with the vocals of the group members so the Andantes were brought in to replace the vocals of the group, B.) Felt the song needed a more fuller sound so the Andantes were added to those of the group members, C.) Wanted both, but scheduling conflicts may have prevented having all ladies present during the session.

I know of a few instances where the Supremes and the Andantes recorded together. Take a listen to their version of "The Nitty Gritty," and you can clearly hear the Andantes and Mary & Cindy together. The session logs state both "group & voices" were recorded at the same session. Louvain remembers a couple of other times recording with the ladies.

[BigAl]

I would not be surprised if both Supremes and Andantes were in the studio at the same time when Clarence Paul captained the tracks which eventually turned up on the Country Western & Pop album. The backgrounds just sound too seamless to have been slugged together later.

[antceleb12]

Thanks! It's really interesting how Gordy did it because sometimes you can hear the Supremes, Vandellas, Four Tops, etc. in the mix, and sometimes it's like they're not there at all [[in the case of "Ask the Lonely," the sound is purely Andantes on the chorus).

[stingbeelee]

Hi antceleb12; on the singing machine karaoke songs for the Four Tops, you can hear the Tops in the background on 'Just Ask The Lonely', they are singing below the Andantes on the chorus. EJ Johnson & I had an argument about this subject and I won the bet! On the karaoke disc, you can hear them much clearer than you can on the record.

[carole cucumber]

I think the artists knew very well additional voices were being used especially if they had to perform a song on TV which they may not have recorded. For instance, Mary & Cindy probably had to listen to "Forever Came Today" in order to learn the background vocals for their appearance on Sullivan.

I've always wondered about that one.
On Ed Sullivan, Mary & Cindy performed some of the same background as the recording- yet they hand clapped and sang 'Ah Ah AH Ah....throughout the portions where on the recording the background lyrics were difficult to understand.
[[And yes, I do remember a thread/threads on the Motown Forum deciphering/exploring what the background vocals that the Andantes were singing in that portion were.)
Perhaps Mary and/or Cindy had some difficulty singing in that muted fashion or no-one wanted to checked with the Andantes as to what they were actually singing on the record. Yet, another Motown mystery....

[jobeterob]

Have any group members ever spoken about the Andantes and other background singers?

It seems to me as there has been more publicity about the Andantes, and more of the fans and public know they were filling in for most of the groups, that the group members have less to say about the Andantes.

[soulballad]

I know this is a forum for Detroit and I have MUCH respect for the Andantes and especially the Funks and all others involved some of which are still nameless . But I would like to mention that there were a lot of session singers uncredited over the years. How about the Ron Hicklin Singers who sang on quite a few of west coast pop groups songs as well as MANY very popular television theme songs such as Batman and Wonder Woman [[the list goes on). I won't even mention Spector and his layering of multiple voices. So is there a difference in regular session singers vs background vocalist? I only ask because there seems to be a bit of distinction in 20 feet from stardom. The Andantes and MANY others were just simply left out. I was in Chicago in the early 70's and we had some of the greatest session/background singers on some of those records many of them by the same group of women [[various Lovelites and Theresa Davis etc). Imo they are also overlooked. It just seems that lately there is a lot of talk about the background in retrosprect but many, many made a living doing it just because they enjoyed singing. I feel bad for those who wanted to step up front but as we can see now that It takes more than a set of pipes to make it in the biz. Just a ponder not meant to start a war.

[antceleb12]

I know this is a Detroit site and I have MUCH respect for the Andantes and the Funks and all involved. But I would like to mention that there were a lot of session singers uncredited over the years. How about the Ron Hicklin Singers who sang on quite a few of west coast pop groups songs as well as MANY very popular television theme songs such as Batman and Wonder Woman [[the list goes on). I won't even mention Spector and his layering of multiple voices. So is there a difference in regular session singers vs background vocalist? I only ask because there seems to be a bit of distinction in 20 feet from stardom. The Andantes and MANY others were just simply left out. I was in Chicago in the early 70's and we had some of the greatest session singers on some of those records many of them by the same group of women [[various Lovelites and Theresa Davis etc). Imo they are also overlooked. It just seems that lately there is a lot of talk about the background in retrosprect but many, many made a living doing it just because they enjoyed singing. I feel bad for those who wanted to step up front but as we can see now that It takes more than a set of pipes to make it in the biz. Just a ponder not meant to start a war.

Speaking of uncredited session musicians, has anyone read The Wrecking Crew? I've only started reading this, but it's fascinating. It goes over the lives of some of the most prolific sessions musicians, including Glenn Campbell, Carol Kaye, and Hal Blaine.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wrecking-Crew-Inside-Best-Kept/dp/1250030463

[soulballad]

I have not read the book yet, but lately I have began to hear a lot about them as well. I understand they often worked alongside the Hickin singers on the west coast. There are so many pieces to the music puzzle. I just find it interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Hicklin_Singers

http://www.wreckingcrewfilm.com/story.html

[Sotosound]

Speaking of uncredited session musicians, has anyone read The Wrecking Crew? I've only started reading this, but it's fascinating. It goes over the lives of some of the most prolific sessions musicians, including Glenn Miller, Carol Kaye, and Hal Blaine.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wrecking-Crew-Inside-Best-Kept/dp/1250030463

Er, is that really Glen Miller or is that Glen Campbell? :)

[antceleb12]

Er, is that really Glen Miller or is that Glen Campbell? :)

LOL thanks for pointing that out! Quite the difference!

[soulballad]

As far as studio bands are concerned at least Booker T and the MG's got some notice and Muscle Shoals. Vocalists wise the Blossoms and maybe the Sweets. Not very many of the hundreds of very hard working and talented people.

[thanxal]

On the karaoke disc, you can hear them much clearer than you can on the record.
I've read about these karaoke recordings, but can never find the right one. Do you have a title/catalog number, etc. for it. I'd like to pick one up but don't want to get the wrong one.

[antceleb12]

Hi antceleb12; on the singing machine karaoke songs for the Four Tops, you can hear the Tops in the background on 'Just Ask The Lonely', they are singing below the Andantes on the chorus. EJ Johnson & I had an argument about this subject and I won the bet! On the karaoke disc, you can hear them much clearer than you can on the record.

I totally forgot about those! I'm going to have to dig those back up and take a listen. Thanks!

[stingbeelee]

Here is the Singing Machine Karaoke Cd that features "Ask The Lonely" on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Motown-Original-Artists-Vol-Stop/dp/B000096QLT/ref=pd_sim_m_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=1EZXQ6F3TWJGY68MHZ2X

Some of the names that refer to the CD:
Motown Original Artists, Vol. 6: Stop! In The Name Of Love [Enhanced, Karaoke]

Other info and track listing:
Product Details
Audio CD [[February 24, 2004)
Number of Discs: 1
Format: Enhanced, Karaoke
Label: Pocketsongs
ASIN: B000096QLT
Average Customer Review: 5.0 out of 5 stars See all reviews [[3 customer reviews)

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Track Listings
1. Stop! In the Name of Love [Multiplex With Lead Vocals]
2. Ben [Multiplex With Lead Vocals]
3. Your Precious Love [Multiplex With Lead Vocals]
4. Baby, Baby Don't Cry [Multiplex With Lead Vocals]
5. Jimmy Mack [Multiplex With Lead Vocals]
6. Keep on Truckin' [Multiplex With Lead Vocals]
7. Ask the Lonely [Multiplex With Lead Vocals]
8. Just My Imagination [[Running Away With Me)
9. Stop! In the Name of Love [Stereo: Without Lead Vocals][Instrumental]
10. Ben [Stereo: Without Lead Vocals][Instrumental]
11. Your Precious Love [Stereo: Without Lead Vocals][Instrumental]
12. Baby, Baby Don't Cry [Stereo: Without Lead Vocals][Instrumental]
13. Jimmy Mack [Stereo: Without Lead Vocals][Instrumental]
14. Keep on Truckin' [Stereo: Without Lead Vocals][Instrumental]
15. Ask the Lonely [Stereo: Without Lead Vocals][Instrumental]
16. Just My Imagination [[Running Away With Me) [Instrumental]


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Editorial Reviews
Multiplex music includes both music-only version of song & vocal guide version of song
Motown Original Artist Karaoke Stop! In the Name of Love 8+8