"Former Supreme" [[sic) Kaaren Ragland to play Eastleigh Concorde Club May 9

[smark21]

I was reading this article about Martha Reeves being booked to play this venue later this year and the writer goes to mention other acts that will be showing up this year, including "Former Supreme" Kaaren Ragland and Motown Recording Artist Johnny Britt to perform May 9 for a Motor City Memories show.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/leisure/music/11131383.Golden_anniversary_for_Martha_s_greatest_ hit/

[jobeterob]

The Supremes are everywhere.

[jobeterob]

I wonder how many tribute groups and groups of other tangential relationship to anyone real Supreme there are out there?

[BigAl]

My memory isn't what is used to be so I'm fuzzy on this but wasn't Kaaaaaaaren eventually permitted to call herself a Supreme outside of the U.S.? I seem to remember something about there being a technicality, since for a time Mary occasionally billed her backups as "Supremes" even though in fact none of them ever were.

[antceleb12]

My memory isn't what is used to be so I'm fuzzy on this but wasn't Kaaaaaaaren eventually permitted to call herself a Supreme outside of the U.S.? I seem to remember something about there being a technicality, since for a time Mary occasionally billed her backups as "Supremes" even though in fact none of them ever were.

That's exactly what I was thinking, too. I think you're right.

[marybrewster]

Doesn't sound like the "Motor City Memories" tour is doing all that well; this date has already been cancelled:

http://www.tivoliwimborne.co.uk/Default.aspx?pagename=Whats-on-in-detail&eventtitle=MOTOR-CITY-MEMORIES-[[CANCELLED)&eventarticleid=1192

[roger]

Well ..

Call me stupid if you want, but [[although I had heard of Kaaren Ragland and accept that she has some tenuous link with THE SUPREMES) I was wondering who on earth JOHNNY BRITT might be??

There is certainly no mention of him on Keith Hughes' "Don't Forget The Motor City" site ....

http://www.dftmc.info/artists/ab.htm

Could he be this JOHNNY BRITT ..

http://www.soultracks.com/johnny-britt-feels-so-good

In which case he was involved with the making of that TEMPTATIONS mini-series and he might actually be worth going to see :)

Roger

[marv2]

Doesn't sound like the "Motor City Memories" tour is doing all that well; this date has already been cancelled:

http://www.tivoliwimborne.co.uk/Default.aspx?pagename=Whats-on-in-detail&eventtitle=MOTOR-CITY-MEMORIES-[[CANCELLED)&eventarticleid=1192

I would think not.......Kaaren is from Virginia! LOL!!!

[marybrewster]

Here's more of a bio:

Johnny travelled the world with The Temptations for 3 years and also signed a production deal with the group as a recording artist to Motown Records.

After touring and recording with The Temptations Johnny decided to form his our group and it was called Impromp2. A mixture of Hip Hop, Jazz and Ole School Funk the group was signed immediately to Motown Records and recorded four albums!

[marybrewster]

And his website:

http://www.johnnybritt.com/

[Roberta75]

You can win tickets to see former supreme Karen Ragland lol

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/competitions/7024/Win_tickets_to_Motor_City_Memories__The_Sound_of_T he_Supremes_/

[roger]

You can win tickets to see former supreme Karen Ragland lol

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/competitions/7024/Win_tickets_to_Motor_City_Memories__The_Sound_of_T he_Supremes_/

That is bizarre Roberta .. the newspaper is based in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire [[which is just to the west of London) and the concert with the giveaway tickets is in Crewe, Cheshire [[which is just to the south of Manchester). The small-print in the competition says it is only open to people who live in "The North West Area" [[usually taken to mean the Liverpool/Manchester/Lancashire/Cheshire area, about 150 miles from Buckinghamshire) .. so the readers of "The Bucks Free Press" are unlikely to be eligible to enter!!

I can see that there will be dozens of disappointed KAAREN RAGLAND fans in the High Wycombe area!! :)

Thanks for the info about JOHNNY BRITT Marybrewster .. I've been listening to his music for the past half hour .. it is certainly very MARVIN GAYE/LEON WARE influenced .. this one in particular .. which sounds like a souped-up version of "After The Dance" ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv-HccCpdko

Roger

[Roberta75]

That is bizarre Roberta .. the newspaper is based in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire [[which is just to the west of London) and the concert with the giveaway tickets is in Crewe, Cheshire [[which is just to the south of Manchester). The small-print in the competition says it is only open to people who live in "The North West Area" [[usually taken to mean the Liverpool/Manchester/Lancashire/Cheshire area, about 150 miles from Buckinghamshire) .. so the readers of "The Bucks Free Press" are unlikely to be eligible to enter!!

I can see that there will be dozens of disappointed KAAREN RAGLAND fans in the High Wycombe area!! :)

Thanks for the info about JOHNNY BRITT Marybrewster .. I've been listening to his music for the past half hour .. it is certainly very MARVIN GAYE/LEON WARE influenced .. this one in particular .. which sounds like a souped-up version of "After The Dance" ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv-HccCpdko

Roger

Smh Roger just smh. Lol

Roberta

[luke]

How are the SOS'" legally endorsed by Motown" per the advertisement?

[jobeterob]

Luke, can you refer us to the specific ad where it says they are legally endorsed?

That seems a bit odd unless it is a ramification of the legal action in which Mary Wilson was unsuccessful.

[marybrewster]

Luke, can you refer us to the specific ad where it says they are legally endorsed?

That seems a bit odd unless it is a ramification of the legal action in which Mary Wilson was unsuccessful.

http://www.ents24.com/diss-events/diss-corn-hall/the-sound-of-the-supremes/3646889

The Supremes' music personified the Motown Sound that influenced a generation, which has shown itself to be one of the most definitive and enduring contributions to American Pop music history. Since 1989 The Sounds of the Supremes [[the only group of their type legally endorsed by Motown*) led by Kaaren Ragland, a former member of original Supreme Mary Wilson's 70s/80s group have achieved a remarkable degree of worldwide success. London's What's On described their incomparable energy packed show featuring more than 20 hit songs as “a non-stop bravura performance of immense vitality” recreating “perfectly the frenetic style and sound of the original lineup”. These three American women possess a wealth of experience in recording, television, cabaret, theater and musicals, and deliver a fantastic vocal blend on re-worked Motown classics, standards, contemporary songs, stylish choreography and unrivaled glamour.

[marybrewster]

http://www.ents24.com/uk/tour-dates/the-sound-of-the-supremes

Looks like 6 of the 15 date tour have already been cancelled.

[MIKEW-UK]

Pity about the cancellation of the Chesham gig..... I live in Bucks....

I'd skip the SOS, but am a huge fan of Louis Price.....an outstanding performer. Apart from his Temptations' participation, he did a fine Motown solo album.

And had a nice recording written by Motown composer, Larry Buford "Think I'm Gonna Be Blue" Here's the story..... http://www.eurweb.com/2013/04/rare-recording-of-former-temptations-member-louis-price-found/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wFKFGkYtFk

[radionixon]

I've often wondered this about Kaaren and her ersatz Supremes revue - it might be a strange question, but are they actually any good? Obviously they're not the Supremes, obviously, but as a tribute act, are they much cop [[as in a kind of Bootleg Beatles way)?

Small World Department: Crewe, Cheshire is where I went to high school. REPRAZENT.

[marv2]

I've often wondered this about Kaaren and her ersatz Supremes revue - it might be a strange question, but are they actually any good? Obviously they're not the Supremes, obviously, but as a tribute act, are they much cop [[as in a kind of Bootleg Beatles way)?

Small World Department: Crewe, Cheshire is where I went to high school. REPRAZENT.

They are not very good. They do not sound good as a group and they have the appearance of women shopping at the Mall on their lunch breaks.

[blueskies]

[QUOTE=radionixon;222953]I've often wondered this about Kaaren and her ersatz Supremes revue - it might be a strange question, but are they actually any good? Obviously they're not the Supremes, obviously, but as a tribute act, are they much cop [[as in a kind of Bootleg Beatles way)?

You be the judge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxd7R47YtdM

[milven]

Here is a better clip of them. It is probably a promotional video and sounds better than some county fair performance. But I don't know why anyone would see them or anyone else singing Supremes songs when the original voice of the group is still out there doing it herself - unless it is a question of economics.

The video also shows how the Kaaaren monster was created. It shows a short clip of Mary Wilson, Kaaaaren RAGland, and the other Karen and they are billed as THE SUPREMES [[Mary Wilson with Karen Jackson & Kaaren Ragland). Actually, at the time, none of them were Supremes, not even Mary. But I guess Kaaaaren figured that if Mary [[a founding member of the group) is calling her a Supreme, then she must be. If Mary only knew what a monster she was creating at the time, she may have reconsidered the billing and just billed herself as Mary Wilson.

check the clip out at about 27 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE6WY89RmMs

[roger]

I've often wondered this about Kaaren and her ersatz Supremes revue - it might be a strange question, but are they actually any good? Obviously they're not the Supremes, obviously, but as a tribute act, are they much cop [[as in a kind of Bootleg Beatles way)?

Small World Department: Crewe, Cheshire is where I went to high school. REPRAZENT.

Another Small World Department ... Polliwog Park in Manhattan Beach, California [[where the S.O.S. were performing in that link supplied by Blueskies) is only four streets away from Harkness Street, Manhattan Beach, where my Great-Aunt was living in the early 1970s.

:)

Roger

[jobeterob]

What is very remarkable is how they become "the only group of their kind legally endorsed by Motown". Amazing.

They might put on a better show than the FLOS, but the FLOS had a lot more to do with the Supremes, as does Mary Wilson. The only reason you would got to Kaaren's group might be that in it's day, it actually did a better show ~ if they ever did.

But isn't she old too?

[roger]

Here is a better clip of them. The video also shows how the Kaaaren monster was created. It shows a short clip of Mary Wilson, Kaaaaren RAGland, and the other Karen and they are billed as THE SUPREMES [[Mary Wilson with Karen Jackson & Kaaren Ragland). Actually, at the time, none of them were Supremes, not even Mary. But I guess Kaaaaren figured that if Mary [[a founding member of the group) is calling her a Supreme, then she must be. If Mary only knew what a monster she was creating at the time, she may have reconsidered the billing and just billed herself as Mary Wilson.

check the clip out at about 27 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE6WY89RmMs

That is an interesting observation Milven.

I think that was the tour in 1978 where Miss Wilson was appearing in the U.K. as "The Supremes' Mary Wilson" [[note the positioning of the apostrophe .. which makes it shorthand for "Mary Wilson of The Supremes"). I remember that she did a few nights at Baileys, Leicester [[central England) and the apostrophe was quite clear on the billboard outside the venue. My understanding is that she got permission from Motown to incorporate the word "Supremes" in the name of her act as long as there was the apostrophe there.

It looks like this subtlety of The English Language was lost in Holland ....

Roger

[BigAl]

I once suggested to Mary that she might think about billing her act as "The Supreme Mary Wilson," in order to use the word "Supreme" without the "s," thus changing it from a noun to an adjective. That would readily have identified her as a Supreme and would also have eliminated any misperception that anyone in her entourage other than she was a Supreme. She said she might consider this, although the suggestion was made too late for her to avoid having all these hangers-on calling themselves Supremes, and she never went there, yet I still maintain that, had she done this from the start, many of the problems she encountered with Kaaaaaaaren and her ilk might have been avoided, since she would never have called these people Supremes in the first place.

[milven]

That is an interesting observation Milven.

I think that was the tour in 1978 where Miss Wilson was appearing in the U.K. as "The Supremes' Mary Wilson" [[note the positioning of the apostrophe .. which makes it shorthand for "Mary Wilson of The Supremes"). ...It looks like this subtlety of The English Language was lost in Holland ....
Roger

The apostrophe means everything. I liked that billing. It may be a little deceptive but it isn't calling a former Supreme a Supreme. Didn't she also have to go out and perform as The Supremes after she left the group because Pedro had Supreme commitments for their Supreme Corporation? [[Sherrie and Susaye - still legally Motown Supremes) did not want to go.
I saw Mary performing in NYC as recently as the '90's as The Supremes STARRING MARY WILSON. I've also seen her billed as Mary Wilson & The Supremes. [[With billings like that, there could be dozens of Kaaaaarens out there) The best billing with the Supreme name is the one with the apostrophe. But even better would have been to go out there with confidence as a solo act and win or lose with your own name.

This would be the forum to ask. After Teddy Bear left the group and went solo, did he ever bill himself as Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes' TEDDY PENDEGRASS or use any other kind of billing using the groups name?

[marybrewster]

I question how much control Mary truly had over how she was billed. Seems to me most of that would have come from management or promoters. Quite honestly, don't you think she would have rather been billed as simply "Mary Wilson?" The fact is she needed the tag line "of the Supremes" [[or whichever variation you prefer) for name recognition.

What Mary DID have control over, and what I think is the real issue, is that she didn't drop the Supremes IMAGE once she went solo. She went on the road with the same dresses, the same routines, and two background singers.....that should have stayed in the background.

[Roberta75]

Unfortunately Mary or Pedro was real sloppy with her billing and it came back to bite her later on. This publicity photos and article show just how Karen ragland pull the wool over a judges eye. Oh well hindsights 20 20 as they say.

[marv2]

The apostrophe means everything. I liked that billing. It may be a little deceptive but it isn't calling a former Supreme a Supreme. Didn't she also have to go out and perform as The Supremes after she left the group because Pedro had Supreme commitments for their Supreme Corporation? [[Sherrie and Susaye - still legally Motown Supremes) did not want to go.
I saw Mary performing in NYC as recently as the '90's as The Supremes STARRING MARY WILSON. I've also seen her billed as Mary Wilson & The Supremes. [[With billings like that, there could be dozens of Kaaaaarens out there) The best billing with the Supreme name is the one with the apostrophe. But even better would have been to go out there with confidence as a solo act and win or lose with your own name.

This would be the forum to ask. After Teddy Bear left the group and went solo, did he ever bill himself as Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes' TEDDY PENDEGRASS or use any other kind of billing using the groups name?

I don't know. I do know that Teddy Pendergrass went to Mary's home to ask her advice about his going solo in 1977.

[marv2]

Unfortunately Mary or Pedro was real sloppy with her billing and it came back to bite her later on. This publicity photos and article show just how Karen ragland pull the wool over a judges eye. Oh well hindsights 20 20 as they say.

They looked great in those pictures. Saw them for the first time around Feb. 1978.

[reese]

This would be the forum to ask. After Teddy Bear left the group and went solo, did he ever bill himself as Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes' TEDDY PENDEGRASS or use any other kind of billing using the groups name?

Re Teddy, initially I read that he might have been involved with another set of Blue Notes after he left Harold Melvin.

But once his solo career started, I don't think he ever had to use their name in his billing, as he had hit records from the start. Plus he had already been getting featured billing before he left the Blue Notes, so he already had some name recognition.

[milven]

I question how much control Mary truly had over how she was billed. Seems to me most of that would have come from management or promoters. Quite honestly, don't you think she would have rather been billed as simply "Mary Wilson?" The fact is she needed the tag line "of the Supremes" [[or whichever variation you prefer) for name recognition.

What Mary DID have control over, and what I think is the real issue, is that she didn't drop the Supremes IMAGE once she went solo. She went on the road with the same dresses, the same routines, and two background singers.....that should have stayed in the background.

Your IMAGE statement seems true. Look at Roberta's post. The poster, pictures and article are all Supreme related, not Mary related.

Mary and Pedro should have had TOTAL control over how they were billed. And they could have refused not to sign a contract where she was billed as THE SUPREMES. They had all kinds of other insignificant stuff in their contracts, including what kind of water, fruit, champagne etc. to have in the dressing room.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/mary-wilson

You are correct in your statement that she did not drop the Supreme image when she left the group. I think it held her back and moved her career backwards instead of forward.

Nevertheless, she has had a long career and has done better than others [[like Tony Williams of the Platters) who left groups only to fade into obscurity. Tony Williams WAS the Platters and I had a chance to see him years after he left the group. He was a shell of himself, his voice was gone, his stage presence was gone and shortly after I saw him, he was gone - sadly probably from drugs.

Although Mary was a member of a famous group, many people regard her as "just a background singer". I can think of no other "background singer" who has been able to put together a career that lasted so long.

[reese]

I would assume that most performers have specific language written into their contracts as to their billing and whatever else. But they might very well be at the mercy of the venue once they actually arrive. And it doesn't help that some venues have little knowledge. I mean, I've seen a Martha Reeves concert advertised with a photo of Shirley Alston Reeves.

Speaking of Shirley, I spoke with her once. I remember her saying that she specifically asked to be billed as Shirley Alston Reeves of the Shirelles. If they billed her as THE SHIRELLES, she was out of there. Maybe she's in a position to do that, and that's great if she is. But sometimes if you're trying to pay the bills, you might just have to deal.

[milven]

..Speaking of Shirley, I spoke with her once. I remember her saying that she specifically asked to be billed as Shirley Alston Reeves of the Shirelles. If they called billed her as THE SHIRELLES, she was out of there. Maybe she's in a position to do that, and that's great if she is.

I saw Beverly at a local event in her home town of Passaic a few months ago. She said she still tours and has the rights to the Shirelles name. That may be why Shirley said that she was out of there if any promoters billed her as the Shirelles . She is avoiding a potential lawsuit.


..But sometimes if you're trying to pay the bills, you might just have to deal.

Yeah! It is probably a two way street. They are keeping the legacy alive, but the legacy is also keeping them alive

[supremester]

That's a good idea, but I don't think it would have stopped Rags from using the billing. The general public doesn't know about apostrophes and who did what. They see the name Supremes and go from there. Any way Mary or Rags could use it without being sued, they would have and still do. I applaud both for being survivors, but I don't think Rags should be going around accepting awards intended for The Supremes.


I once suggested to Mary that she might think about billing her act as "The Supreme Mary Wilson," in order to use the word "Supreme" without the "s," thus changing it from a noun to an adjective. That would readily have identified her as a Supreme and would also have eliminated any misperception that anyone in her entourage other than she was a Supreme. She said she might consider this, although the suggestion was made too late for her to avoid having all these hangers-on calling themselves Supremes, and she never went there, yet I still maintain that, had she done this from the start, many of the problems she encountered with Kaaaaaaaren and her ilk might have been avoided, since she would never have called these people Supremes in the first place.

[marv2]

That's a good idea, but I don't think it would have stopped Rags from using the billing. The general public doesn't know about apostrophes and who did what. They see the name Supremes and go from there. Any way Mary or Rags could use it without being sued, they would have and still do. I applaud both for being survivors, but I don't think Rags should be going around accepting awards intended for The Supremes.

Now that Diana Ross has started relying more and more on her Supremes past, I think it is great that people can still go out and hear those golden oldies live if they want to. I love that Mary Wilson has incorporated several of the 70's Supremes hits into her act along with her hits with the Original Supremes.

[milven]

Now that Diana Ross has started relying more and more on her Supremes past, I think it is great that people can still go out and hear those golden oldies live if they want to. I love that Mary Wilson has incorporated several of the 70's Supremes hits into her act along with her hits with the Original Supremes.

The last time that I saw Mary, she was part of an oldies show and only did sixties Supremes. But she sang what that audience was looking for. I'm glad that she is doing Seventies Supremes songs and acknowledging that the group went on after Diana left. I've only seen her perform Bad Weather in her act. Does she ever do Up The Ladder, Touch, Stoned Love, I Keep It Hid, You Are The Heart of Me? I'd love to hear her sing some of those songs in her act.

Diana used to just do a medley of Supremes Hits in her act in the beginning, not because she was being dismissive to her heritage, but because her former group was out there singing the hits and because Diana was trying to move forward with a solo career not dependent on the Supremes. I remember being in Florida in the early Seventies and seeing Diana one night and the Supremes the next night . They were two separate distinct shows.

Now that Diana has nothing to prove, she kind of divides her show in half doing half Supremes songs and half Diana songs and songs from LSTB. She gives the audience her entire career.

I wish she could find a way to include UP THE LADDER as a salute to the group that continued successfully without her. And , I wish she would put SOMEDAY in her act.

[smark21]

Mary sometimes does 70s songs--Stoned Love, Bad Weather, Floy Joy, and Nathan Jones. When I saw her at Coney Island a couple of years ago, she did Stoned Love and was excellent.

[detmotownguy]

When I saw Mary sing Nathan Jones it was perfect. She did her original background to the point it was surreal.

[marybrewster]

When I saw Mary sing Nathan Jones it was perfect. She did her original background to the point it was surreal.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMQHDc1dmUc

Mary definitely needs to keep more 70's material in her show.

[marv2]

This clip is from the 80's, but she has brought it back into her act recently. Mary Wilson and "Stoned Love".......



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUaE-igyyWU

[marv2]

Here ,the illustrious and sassy Mary Wilson with "Floy Joy"........hehehehehehe...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3H8VzQQSnQ

[supremester]

Miss Ross has always done Supremes songs in her solo shows but I wouldn't care if she didn't. I keep hearing how Mary skips 70's songs frequently, so what? Let em do what they want. Mary came here and did an outdoor ice cream social and did no 70's. when Ross left the group, she was doing Someday, Love Child, The Happening and Baby Love in her early act. As you pointed out, she needed to mnnimize that for a while and, thankfully, she did. Now, her show is 25% Supremes and it works just fine. I'm psyched that she did I Hear A Symphony - maybe My World is on hiatus for awhile. I'd love to hear Someday and Back In My Arms Again as well. Plus, she totally nails Love Child and Reflections.
Years ago, I hoped she'd do Up The Ladder & Stoned Love also, but I don't expect it now. LOL.


The last time that I saw Mary, she was part of an oldies show and only did sixties Supremes. But she sang what that audience was looking for. I'm glad that she is doing Seventies Supremes songs and acknowledging that the group went on after Diana left. I've only seen her perform Bad Weather in her act. Does she ever do Up The Ladder, Touch, Stoned Love, I Keep It Hid, You Are The Heart of Me? I'd love to hear her sing some of those songs in her act.

Diana used to just do a medley of Supremes Hits in her act in the beginning, not because she was being dismissive to her heritage, but because her former group was out there singing the hits and because Diana was trying to move forward with a solo career not dependent on the Supremes. I remember being in Florida in the early Seventies and seeing Diana one night and the Supremes the next night . They were two separate distinct shows.

Now that Diana has nothing to prove, she kind of divides her show in half doing half Supremes songs and half Diana songs and songs from LSTB. She gives the audience her entire career.

I wish she could find a way to include UP THE LADDER as a salute to the group that continued successfully without her. And , I wish she would put SOMEDAY in her act.

[supremester]

This Nathan was excellent and a great chart for it. Was this recent? It didn't sound anything like this in Vegas 5 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMQHDc1dmUc

Mary definitely needs to keep more 70's material in her show.

[marv2]

I wished Mary could have included "Stoned Love" in her huge holiday spectacular in Chicago a few months ago, but they opted to cover "Do You Wanna Dance" by Bette Midler. I hope she adds it to her shows for the Jamaica Jazz Festival and the Kentucky Derby Gala she's got coming up.

[supremester]

I thought she did Stoned Love, I guess not. In Vegas, no one knew Nathan Jones or Floy Joy - she did both.

[jobeterob]

Why are they legally endorsed by Motown?

[radionixon]

I'm guessing [[only guessing, mind) that in this case, "legally endorsed by" means "we're taking advantage of an extremely generous interpretation of the permissions Mary Wilson once used, and we haven't been sued yet"; I doubt there's been any actual specific legal endorsement as such.

[jobeterob]

I'm guessing [[only guessing, mind) that in this case, "legally endorsed by" means "we're taking advantage of an extremely generous interpretation of the permissions Mary Wilson once used, and we haven't been sued yet"; I doubt there's been any actual specific legal endorsement as such.

Ah, I am starting to get it. It probably means "we got sued and won" "so Motown won't do anything about us using the name" "so they endorse it".

I guess it is true that the short, fairly insignificant connection she had with the Supremes was legally upheld.