HDH and the Use Of Terra Shirma

[bradburger]

With the up and coming release of the complete Hot Wax & Invictus output due out soon, I thought I'd ask a question I've been meaning to ask Ralph for ages!

What prompted HDH to change their minds [[or did they?) and use Terra Shirma to record tracks for their fledgling new label?

The reason I ask is that I remember on the old forum [[a long time ago!) whilst Lawrence Horn was being discussed, Ralph mentioned when HDH where looking for a studio to use, Horn, came over to assess it for potential use, but basically dismissed it saying or implying that 'It was not up to scratch', from a technical point of view.

Clearly that was not the case, but I assume he reported back to HDH and gave them his opinion?

So, did HDH initially decline to use it, or did they go against Horn's advice and judge the quality of Terra Shirma for themselves?

And in another thread I found on the old forum, Ralph mentions that Horn, [[although HDH's Chief Engineer and present at the sessions) actually didn't do much [[if any) in the way of recording or mixing the tracks, but was acting as some sort of 'Technical Advisor' to them.

I must admit, I found that a bit puzzling, given his former position at Motown, and his new position at Hotwax/Invictus!

Cheers

Paul

[soulster]

With the up and coming release of the complete Hot Wax & Invictus output due out soon, I thought I'd ask a question I've been meaning to ask Ralph for ages!

What prompted HDH to change their minds [[or did they?) and use Terra Shirma to record tracks for their fledgling new label?

The reason I ask is that I remember on the old forum [[a long time ago!) whilst Lawrence Horn was being discussed, Ralph mentioned when HDH where looking for a studio to use, Horn, came over to assess it for potential use, but basically dismissed it saying or implying that 'It was not up to scratch', from a technical point of view.

Clearly that was not the case, but I assume he reported back to HDH and gave them his opinion?

So, did HDH initially decline to use it, or did they go against Horn's advice and judge the quality of Terra Shirma for themselves?

And in another thread I found on the old forum, Ralph mentions that Horn, [[although HDH's Chief Engineer and present at the sessions) actually didn't do much [[if any) in the way of recording or mixing the tracks, but was acting as some sort of 'Technical Advisor' to them.

I must admit, I found that a bit puzzling, given his former position at Motown, and his new position at Hotwax/Invictus!

Cheers

Paul Or, how about his current position in prison!

I'm also interested in this Hot Wax-Invictus set you mention. This is the first time i've heard of it.

[ralpht]

Brad,
When HDH were first interested in using TS, Lawrence Horn came over to check the studio out. I don't think he actually dissed the studio, since it was light years ahead of anything Motown had at that time. It was just his attitude, like he was some superior engineer [[which he most certainly wasn't). I never liked the guy anyway. At any rate, HDH began using the studio. To tell you the truth, I don't remember Lawrence being at any of the sessions. Just as well. Milan or Russ would probably have thrown him out. I suppose he was at the sessions. After all, he was their engineer. But by that time I'm sure Russ or Milan had taken control of things and relegated him to some chair in the control room, gave him a cookie and told him to keep his mouth shut.

[soulster]

Ralph, i'm thinking maybe he told HDH that it wasn't up to snuff because he felt overwhelmed with the superior equipment, felt threatened because he was incompetent.

[ralpht]

I don't think it was a question of him knowing the equipment was superior. I'm sure HDH were aware of that fact by that time. He was probably sent over to nose around and see what we had going. He was such a smug SOB though. I'm sure he had to have attended some of the dates because I seem to remember him coming through the waiting room from time to time.

For a short time a sale to them was on the table. Eddie had expressed an interest in buying the place. In all honesty, I wasn't all that hot on selling since Studio B had recently opened to rave revues among the Detroit music community. I think I told him he could have it for a million. He rightfully balked and HDH would eventually open up their own studio and record there.

Other than the unpleasant incident with Horn, the HDH experience was very good. They are not only extremely talented, but also very nice guys. In the early days of their departure from Motown, when they were recording in breech of contracts, they would slip into the studio through the back door and head up the stairs to my office where we would sit, talking and laughing, until the studio was ready to go. Nice memories.

[thomas96]

It was just his attitude, like he was some superior engineer [[which he most certainly wasn't).

He wasn't? Wasn't he used for many of the main sessions or am I wrong in thinking that?

[ralpht]

It was all Milan Bogdan or Russ Terrana on the sessions. I don't think Milan would let the guy touch the console he so lovingly designed.

[soulster]

Can you give a short list of Hot Wax-Invictus stuff that was recorded there so I can study the differences in the sound?

[daddyacey]

"HDH would eventually open up their own studio and record there."

Ralph ,do you recall or know who built the Hot Wax-Invictus Studios??

[ralpht]

It was an old movie theater. I don't remember who put it together though.

Soulster,
Too many years to remember what songs were recorded where.

[snakepit]

Was that Cadilac Towers?

[snakepit]

Or, how about his current position in prison!

I'm also interested in this Hot Wax-Invictus set you mention. This is the first time i've heard of it.

check details on Motown Forum ....HDH/Invictus thread

[ralpht]

Yes Snake. Cadillac Towers.

[dvus7]

I don't think it was a question of him knowing the equipment was superior. I'm sure HDH were aware of that fact by that time. He was probably sent over to nose around and see what we had going. He was such a smug SOB though. I'm sure he had to have attended some of the dates because I seem to remember him coming through the waiting room from time to time.

For a short time a sale to them was on the table. Eddie had expressed an interest in buying the place. In all honesty, I wasn't all that hot on selling since Studio B had recently opened to rave revues among the Detroit music community. I think I told him he could have it for a million. He rightfully balked and HDH would eventually open up their own studio and record there.

Other than the unpleasant incident with Horn, the HDH experience was very good. They are not only extremely talented, but also very nice guys. In the early days of their departure from Motown, when they were recording in breech of contracts, they would slip into the studio through the back door and head up the stairs to my office where we would sit, talking and laughing, until the studio was ready to go. Nice memories.

Hey, Ralph....Given your statement..Eddie, Was not a producer? Is that correct? From my understanding, their agreement, stated that they had to produce a substantial amount of 45's in a short amount of time!!!

[ralpht]

I'm not sure I understand your question, dvus. Eddie Holland was most indeed a very good producer.

[dvus7]

I'm not sure I understand your question, dvus. Eddie Holland was most indeed a very good producer.

Hey, Mr. Terrana

I'm not disputing you....I was just under the impression, that Eddie Holland was just a "lyric writer"!!! As he stated, himself, that he never had a "producers" contract with Motown!!!

[stephanie]

Ralph Im glad you told this story because I remember 12 years ago when one of those crime story shows were on MSNBC and my mother screamed for me to come downstairs. She knew if anything Motown related came on to call me I dont care WHAT I was doing. I got the impression he thought of himself as a great engineer. Thanks for clearing up the impression.

[daddyacey]

"Too many years to remember what songs were recorded where."

That's why those who are still around ,that witnessed events first hand ,should be documenting them in some form or another ,so the history could be told first hand. :) I'm just say'in......

[ralpht]

You give good advice. My biggest regret is that I didn't take more pictures. Even the ones I have of Tera Shirma are few. There was so much I could have documented back then but simply didn't. But then, who was to know that any of what was going on back then would be of any importance forty or so years down the line?

[ralpht]

Yeah Steph, the guy was a total jerk as evidenced by his imprisonment.

[soulster]

Anyone who would hire a hitman to kill his wife and kid a among the lowest of low.

[ralpht]

Pretty much sums it up, Soul.

[theboyfromxtown]

You give good advice. My biggest regret is that I didn't take more pictures. Even the ones I have of Tera Shirma are few. There was so much I could have documented back then but simply didn't. But then, who was to know that any of what was going on back then would be of any importance forty or so years down the line?

Fortunately the SDF archives have a wealth of info from the days when we could remember!

..plus, of course, books like

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Road-Through-Motown-Ralph-Terrana/dp/1904408230/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396041610&sr=1-2

and

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Russ-Terranas-Motown-Ralph-Terrana/dp/1904408702/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396041610&sr=1-1

[ralpht]

John,
I did my best to put down all I could remember in those books. Thank you for posting this.