Was Diana meant to be solo star

[honest man]

Been listening to Meet The Supremes Expanded,especially alt version of I Want A Guy Diana sings solo right through no other voices,makes me wonder if Berry's plan was to just have her as a solo star from the start,it was The Supremes first recording and puts the myth that Florence was ousted as lead singer.just a thought.

[144man]

I think Diana Ross knew exactly what she wanted and was always going to take the lead on the first record through sheer force of personality whatever her status in the group was.

[mowsville]

Honest man...Ive been thinking the same thing since I purchased the deluxe version of this album on release...I couldn't be bothered to post anything because I knew what a can of worms it would open...I can never understand also if Flo was the original lead singer then why wasn't she featured as lead on the two Lupine sides cut before Motown and before Berry had a say??????

[antceleb12]

Florence as the lead singer is a myth...they all had their share of leads. Florence has even stated that her discontent with Diana becoming the sole focus had nothing to do with her not being the lead singer, but with the fact that her and Mary's talents were gradually being put further on the back burner.

[honest man]

Florence as the lead singer is a myth...they all had their share of leads. Florence has even stated that her discontent with Diana becoming the sole focus had nothing to do with her not being the lead singer.Yes but thiswas the first single and solo as i said no background singers.Maybe Berry seen the star quality in her, Mowsville glad i asked the question for both of us,cheers.

[mowsville]

not as many replies as I suspected...maybe you shattered the dream Honest man once and for all...job done

[arr&bee]

Of course diana was gonna be a solo star,just take a look at one of the first photos of them,with barbara martin and you'll notice that diana is at the top of the pic,even then berry knew that she was special to motown.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I've said the same thing in the past, she was out front even before Motown, and the other two weren't exactly hating on her at the time.. they knew she was the spotlight addict and the scene stealer, and they knew that was exactly what they needed in the group..fame and money changed everything afterwards..

[smark21]

Diana Ross became a solo star?!!! I thought her career faded into complete obscurity after she released that incomprehensible song about Mountains. No one ever talks about her...even at Soulful Detroit Forum.

[smark21]

But seriously..a question. Back in early 61 were lead and background vocals recorded separately at Hitsville? Or was that not instituted until later?

[captainjames]

lol one would have to had known her....Diana was not going to live the rest of her life in Brewster and if it meant Mary, Flo and Barbara had to come with her so be it.

[bradsupremes]

But seriously..a question. Back in early 61 were lead and background vocals recorded separately at Hitsville? Or was that not instituted until later?

Up until 1965, lead and background were recorded together and sometimes along with the band. A lot of those early Motown songs were essentially cut as live tracks. Everyone was playing and singing together and if someone messed up they had to stop the tape and start over. It wasn't until Motown got into the 3 track and then eventually the 8 track tape recording process in 1965 where they could be more sophisticated in the recording technique and have things such as the lead and background recorded separately.

Take a song such as "Your Heart Belongs To Me" in which everything was recorded December 8, 1961.

Then look at the third version of "Mother Dear" which has the band track being cut January 19, 1966; strings recorded February 12, 1966; background vocals recorded March 4, 1966; and then the lead recorded March 9, 1966.

[antceleb12]

Up until 1965, lead and background were recorded together and sometimes along with the band. A lot of those early Motown songs were essentially cut as live tracks. Everyone was playing and singing together and if someone messed up they had to stop the tape and start over. It wasn't until Motown got into the 3 track and then eventually the 8 track tape recording process in 1965 where they could be more sophisticated in the recording technique and have things such as the lead and background recorded separately.

Take a song such as "Your Heart Belongs To Me" in which everything was recorded December 8, 1961.

Then look at the third version of "Mother Dear" which has the band track being cut January 19, 1966; strings recorded February 12, 1966; background vocals recorded March 4, 1966; and then the lead recorded March 9, 1966.

If I remember correctly, I think "Back In My Arms Again" was the first track ever cut by Motown using 8-track.

[midnightman]

Florence as the lead singer is a myth...they all had their share of leads. Florence has even stated that her discontent with Diana becoming the sole focus had nothing to do with her not being the lead singer, but with the fact that her and Mary's talents were gradually being put further on the back burner.

Thank you. I get tired of people perpetuating this myth. The Supremes were unique in that in its early formation and early periods they split the lead vocals: Flo had hers, Mary had hers and Diana had hers. What happened when Diana became lead singer was a business move that didn't bother Flo and Mary as long as they were still paid attention to. Once they weren't, it became a problem.

[midnightman]

Diana Ross became a solo star?!!! I thought her career faded into complete obscurity after she released that incomprehensible song about Mountains. No one ever talks about her...even at Soulful Detroit Forum.

It's like it's still 1971 and it's not 2014 in this board...

[Roberta75]

It was real obvious from me from seeing the Supremes on Ed Sullivan singing 'Come see About Me' that Diane Ross was destine for superstardom cause she had that something magical. I love love love mary and dear sweet Flo but they didnt have the same bright spark like Diane had. I saw that spark in the the first Lady of Motown Dr Martha Reeves and know right away that Martha was also destine for superstardom.

Roberta

[BigAl]

I don't believe anyone is meant to be anything.
Diane, being a textbook Type-A, made it her business to be a star.
Like almost every talented and extremely successful person, she did anything and everything within her power and capabilities to get where she wanted: worked her arse off, drove herself constantly, connected professionally [[sometimes intimately) with people who had the power to advance her career, created a unique stye, the works. That all adds up to success. It's very unfortunate that a number of people suffered as a result of her relentless stampede to stardom, but that often happens when dealing with a Type-A personality; it goes with the territory.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I agree with Big Al, but if 'the goods' aren't there, and the public does not want you, all the Type-A activity in the world won't accomplish a thing..
and we wanted, and STILL want, DIANA ROSS!

[midnightman]

I agree with Big Al as well. But it seems people dug what Diana brought to the table...

[jobeterob]

You need all of what Big Al set out.............and the distinctive voice. Without that distinctive voice, all the Type A in the world won't do it alone.

[Ryon6]

I don't believe anyone is meant to be anything.
Diane, being a textbook Type-A, made it her business to be a star.
Like almost every talented and extremely successful person, she did anything and everything within her power and capabilities to get where she wanted: worked her arse off, drove herself constantly, connected professionally [[sometimes intimately) with people who had the power to advance her career, created a unique stye, the works. That all adds up to success. It's very unfortunate that a number of people suffered as a result of her relentless stampede to stardom, but that often happens when dealing with a Type-A personality; it goes with the territory.

I second that. It was her DETERMINATION and WILLINGNESS to go that extra mile.

[supremester]

Great overview! And as you say, there may have been some casualties [[although I can't think of who they might be), but there were way more beneficiaries [[Motown & the entire cast, pop music history, ease of racial tensions - all effected strongly in a positive way by that very stampede.)
Was Diane Ross meant to be a star? A kid in the projects dates a boy who gets her into a group, wrangles an audition with 2 more traditional singers and while singing through her nose is the standout of the three and a vision streaks through the boss' mind. That vision becomes reality. Over 5 decades later [[and over 3 decades managing herself,) she still is wowing audiences on every continent in every size, shape, style and type of venue. I had friends and business associates at The Hollywood Bowl last summer - all casual fans or just interested to see her as a one time thing. They were all knocked out and just 3 days ago, 2 sought me out at a convention to rant about her show again and ask for CD suggestions. I believe she/her energy connects on another level. I believe she was meant to be a star. REALLY meant to be a star.


I don't believe anyone is meant to be anything.
Diane, being a textbook Type-A, made it her business to be a star.
Like almost every talented and extremely successful person, she did anything and everything within her power and capabilities to get where she wanted: worked her arse off, drove herself constantly, connected professionally [[sometimes intimately) with people who had the power to advance her career, created a unique stye, the works. That all adds up to success. It's very unfortunate that a number of people suffered as a result of her relentless stampede to stardom, but that often happens when dealing with a Type-A personality; it goes with the territory.

[captainjames]

I agree with Big Al too but just like there may have been some who suffered from it there were some who benefit from it as well.


It was real obvious from me from seeing the Supremes on Ed Sullivan singing 'Come see About Me' that Diane Ross was destine for superstardom cause she had that something magical. I love love love mary and dear sweet Flo but they didnt have the same bright spark like Diane had. I saw that spark in the the first Lady of Motown Dr Martha Reeves and know right away that Martha was also destine for superstardom.

Roberta

[supremester]

Who suffered?



I agree with Big Al too but just like there may have been some who suffered from it there were some who benefit from it as well.

[Jimi LaLumia]

those who were [[and are) jealous of the level of her ongoing success..

[vgalindo]

Who suffered?

That's what I would like to know? I don't see how Diana Ross made anyone suffer.

[Jimi LaLumia]

self imposed and self imagined suffering [[translation: unbridled jealousy..)

[vgalindo]

self imposed and self imagined suffering [[translation: unbridled jealousy..)
So True. I couldn't have said it better!

[supremester]

I imagined initially that was what Al was referring to, but it didn't make sense. Let's say Mary & Flo were insanely jealous and completely ruled by hate and envy or alleged or real "mistreatment" by Miss Ross Herself. They were suffering in a suite at The Plaza - not the projects. Miss Ross took them to The Plaza - and no one else. So, I say, small price to pay. That being said, it is quite possible that due to rapid mega success, Miss Ross may have been a handful and, sometimes, not the easiest person in the world to work with. Most mega stars have a period of adjustment and let's face it: Miss Ross had at least as much, or more pressure on her than any overnight megastar ever - you try sauntering down the hillside 5-FOURTEEN times per week. Every week. When do you have time to have the flu, a cold, the runs, your period - even getting a tooth implant the day you have tto saunter twice later in the night. Rough - especially when you consider the race card - most stars from Marion Davies to Justin Beiber were white....Miss Ross was a black woman playing in the white dominated entertainment world and living up to Berry's dreams of crossover. She had REASON to be difficult. That may not have made it easier to deal with, but clearly you can see a 95# woman and know all is not well.
Yes, some may have suffered, but I suggest you go back and ask all involved if they wish that Diane Ross had never asked Smokey for an audition.

[Jimi LaLumia]

the above post is PERFECT!!

[BigAl]

I did indeed include self-inflicted suffering in my comment. Suffering is suffering no matter who inflicts it, whether directly or obliquely. Dealing with someone who is so relentlessly driven is a big order for those who are not similarly inclined, and especially for those who aren't but wish they were. One need only look at any workplace and see evidence of that. There are those who will go with the program, assuming positions of support, and there are others who will view these as being positions of subservience, which often can lead to bitterness and resentment.

[supremester]

STAMPEDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barbra Streisand - one of the most talented and successful singers ever, didn't exactly fall into her stardom - it was nurtured, planned, schemed and deserved. Ultimately, it took the work of several handlers to get her to the attention to the public in the correct way to put her over and then, let the people decide. They decided. Did others suffer? Ask Eydie Gorme [[Born Edith Gormezanno.)

HELLO, GORGEOUS: Becoming Barbra Streisand by William J. Mann. Copyright 2012. Pages 217-219.


...On April 24, Barbra's twentieth birthday, the producers of PM EAST presented her with a cake during the taping of the show...But there was more important business to attend to on this particular show, and Don Softness kept his fingers crossed that it would all work out. Marty asked him to come up with a "gimmick" to get Barbra noticed by producers--David Merrick included--who were planning the Fanny Brice musical. So Softness had rung his old pal George Q. Lewis, the legendary comedy writer and workshop teacher who'd helped Milton Berle, Henny Youngman, Jack Benny, and others polish their gags. Lewis had established a mostly phony organization called the National Association of Gag Writers that could be used for promotional purposes--which was just what Softness had in mind. He asked Lewis if the association would give Barbra their annual "Fanny Brice Award".

"But we don't have a Fanny Brice Award," Lewis replied.
"You do now," Softness told him.

So, on the air that night, Barbra was presented with more than a birthday cake. Out came a fancy framed certificate from the National Association of Gag Writers, signed by Lewis. Mike Wallace read from the statement prepared by Softness, telling the audience that the "annual award" was being presented to Miss Streisand because "the pathos of her comedy epitomizes the devotion to her art reminiscent of the late, great Fanny Brice." Barbra acted suitably surprised and impressed as she accepted the certificate. Everyone involved knew it was both the first and the last annual Fanny Brice Award.

In the meantime, Softness had reached out to another colleague, Richard Falk, a fast-taking, stunt-loving publicity man who'd started out as an assistant to Claude Greneker, the press agent for the Ziegfeld Follies in the 1930s. Falk was known as "the Mayor of Forty-second Street" for all his connections up and down the Great White Way...If anyone could get Barbra noticed, Softness reasoned that it was Falk.

One of the first things Falk suggested was to ratchet up the kook business. If landing the part of Fanny Brice was the goal, kookiness was definitely the way to go, as Brice was known for her quirks and whims. Keep playing up the thrift shops and vintage clothes, Falk advised. Barbra had been making references to "Second Hand Rose", one of Brice's best-known songs, at least as far back as her Detroit days, so they were on the right track. Meanwhile, the new publicist began issuing regular bulletins to all the columnists, most of whom he knew personally. Within days, Leonard Lyons was reporting that showman Billy Rose, Brice's third husband, had been "reading all the casting reports on the musical about the late Fanny Brice," and "of all the comediennes he's seen, the one whose comic qualities most closely approach Miss Brice's is Barbra Streisand of I CAN GET IT FOR YOU WHOLESALE." Rose, of course, was one of Falk's cronies. It was all part of the plan.

[thisoldheart]

motown had the best stable of lead singers of probably any american label. i love almost every one of them. i am not one of those who only loves one motown singer above all others. they all have their share of great songs.

however, to think that sheer force of will made diana ross a very successful pop star is to negate or not recognize her unusual voice that cuts right through a record, or her very charismatic visual style. you won't get by on just determination for very long. you have to have the goods to back it up!

[stingbeelee]

I had read that when the Supremes auditioned at Motown, that Berry Gordy said they sounded OK and that they needed to go back and finish school? when did the story become that when Diana sang that she was the standout of the three? I had read and heard that he was impressed that the group had three lead singers and had impeccable harmonies - something that is very rare with three lead singers.
About this type A personality stuff; if you go on a tour down south and get shot at, threatened, and screamed at, then you come back home and still sing, then I believe that you are a type A personality; all three were probably type A's in some form or function.
When they started releasing singles and they "flopped"; Holland/Dozier/Holland wanted to replace Diana and have Mary sing lead on "Where did our love go". I don't think that anyone on this forum would call H/D/H fools or idiots for suggesting this, as they didn't exactly have tin ears so to speak. Berry wanted Diana to sing lead - and it was the right call. A few people on this forum have suggested in the past that "Where did our love go" would'nt have been as big with Mary singing, but please remember that you had the best band in the whole behind you, the best group of producers behind you, the best set of arrangers behind you, etc. etc.
Let's get this out of the way, the Supremes are Superstars. They were Superstars then and now. You cannot separate Diana, Mary or Flo or Motown as a whole from the Supremes. To suggest that Diana was "the" Superstar and the whole gamut of everyone else were peasants who groveled at her feet is nonsense.
Diana is a legend, a musical icon until the day she dies. Mary has a very successful solo career, one that most musicians would give their right arm and leg for, as I read on this forum last week. I also believe Flo would've gotten herself together and also had a successful career with steady work.

[jobeterob]

Sting: I think there are some inaccuracies in your post. I believe only one of HDH suggested Mary sing WDOLG and they decided against it. I also think thisoldheart has it more accurately ~ the Ross voice was very distinct and unusual; you could put Mary Wilson or Florence Ballard in front of that band and get very little in the way of a hit. Mary and Florence did not have distinctive voices or successful solo careers if you are looking for hits, radio play and big concerts ~ they barely survived is more accurate and one of them did not survive in fact. Mary had to work her ass off, write books, diverge into other areas in order to have a career. Her success was as a Supreme with someone else singing lead.

I don't think Diana was made to be a solo success or solo star ~ she had a distinctive voice and worked for the rest of it in a manner that no other Supreme wanted to work for at that point. I think by 1985, Mary Wilson started to get the spirit but by then she was too old to be a pop success and the brand "Supremes" just wouldn't take her that far anymore.

[marv2]

Sting: I think there are some inaccuracies in your post. I believe only one of HDH suggested Mary sing WDOLG and they decided against it. I also think thisoldheart has it more accurately ~ the Ross voice was very distinct and unusual; you could put Mary Wilson or Florence Ballard in front of that band and get very little in the way of a hit. Mary and Florence did not have distinctive voices or successful solo careers if you are looking for hits, radio play and big concerts ~ they barely survived is more accurate and one of them did not survive in fact.


You don't know that! Florence and Mary were never given the chance to hit or miss. So cut the bullshit! Diana Ross was good for her time when material was perfectly tailored for her. She hasn't had a hit in a full 30 years now. If she was so tough, then explain that? The Supremes were a group and that is how they will always be remembered after all the individual members are gone including Diane. Trying to set her above and apart from the others is never going to work except among her dwindling die-hard fans. She'll be 70 years old in a week or so. If she lived another 70 years she will still be remembered as the former lead singer of the Supremes [[actually one of the former lead singers.....).

Now you guys can battle it out over that. I am going now to continue my pleasant weekend!
.

[jobeterob]

You don't know that! Florence and Mary were never given the chance to hit or miss. So cut the bullshit! Diana Ross was good for her time when material was perfectly tailored for her. She hasn't had a hit in a full 30 years now. If she was so tough, then explain that? The Supremes were a group and that is how they will always be remembered after all the individual members are gone including Diane. Trying to set her above and apart from the others is never going to work except among her dwindling die-hard fans. She'll be 70 years old in a week or so. If she lived another 70 years she will still be remembered as the former lead singer of the Supremes [[actually one of the former lead singers.....).

Now you guys can battle it out over that. I am going now to continue my pleasant weekend!
.

Well I have my opinion which rarely coincides with yours but which several other posters occasionally agree with. Me and some of the others believes your opinions are bullshit too ~ so you have nothing on us bud.

Diana hasn't had a hit in 30 years but she was the lead singer on all the hits, solo and Supremes and Mary, Florence, Lynda, Scherrie and the others never had a hit on their own period ~ if you want to push a point.

And Mary will be 70 as well. Good for them that they made it a lot longer than Flo.

All that being said, the distinctive voice was Diane's or Diana's.

And if you think the Mary Wilson voice is distinctive ~ well she doesn't and then your ears must be full of shit too!!!! Isn't this where you used to always go............."heheheheheeh"? Right, but that was before you were shut down.

[stingbeelee]

Hi Jobeterob; I have read that "H/D/H" thought it was best that Mary take the lead on "where did our love go"; but of course it could have only been one, since either one or all three were designated "H/D/H". If you talk to the old-timers here in Detroit [[and I worked with one this summer), in the early days of the Supremes sharing leads, most of them liked Flo's voice, then Mary's voice [[especially on ballads) and then Diana's voice. They also told me that Flo sounded good on the big or uptempo numbers and Diana had the midtempo swingers. This comes from people who saw Diana Washington, Della Reese, Jackie Wilson and Little Wille John on the regular.
When I talk to people who remember and saw the Supremes, I have NEVER heard anyone say "oh yeah, Mary Wilson was in a group with Diana Ross as lead singer"; they usually say "oh yeah, she was in the Supremes"; when I ask them what was so good about the Supremes, they usually reply "everything".

[marv2]

I had read that when the Supremes auditioned at Motown, that Berry Gordy said they sounded OK and that they needed to go back and finish school? when did the story become that when Diana sang that she was the standout of the three? I had read and heard that he was impressed that the group had three lead singers and had impeccable harmonies - something that is very rare with three lead singers.
About this type A personality stuff; if you go on a tour down south and get shot at, threatened, and screamed at, then you come back home and still sing, then I believe that you are a type A personality; all three were probably type A's in some form or function.
When they started releasing singles and they "flopped"; Holland/Dozier/Holland wanted to replace Diana and have Mary sing lead on "Where did our love go". I don't think that anyone on this forum would call H/D/H fools or idiots for suggesting this, as they didn't exactly have tin ears so to speak. Berry wanted Diana to sing lead - and it was the right call. A few people on this forum have suggested in the past that "Where did our love go" would'nt have been as big with Mary singing, but please remember that you had the best band in the whole behind you, the best group of producers behind you, the best set of arrangers behind you, etc. etc.
Let's get this out of the way, the Supremes are Superstars. They were Superstars then and now. You cannot separate Diana, Mary or Flo or Motown as a whole from the Supremes. To suggest that Diana was "the" Superstar and the whole gamut of everyone else were peasants who groveled at her feet is nonsense.
Diana is a legend, a musical icon until the day she dies. Mary has a very successful solo career, one that most musicians would give their right arm and leg for, as I read on this forum last week. I also believe Flo would've gotten herself together and also had a successful career with steady work.

Now this is a rational posting. Something Jobeterob could never comprehend.

[jobeterob]

I agree with Stingbee!

Marv just has such a history of trash talk toward Diana Ross that I feed it back X 2.

[Jimi LaLumia]

Diana Ross will be remembered as The Queen Of Motown... Motown: The Musical and Motown: The Movie will take care of THAT!.. and the sad, sour haters will just HAVE to get over it!...LOL!

[honest man]

Diana Ross will be remembered as The Queen Of Motown... Motown: The Musical and Motown: The Movie will take care of THAT!.. and the sad, sour haters will just HAVE to get over it!...LOL!

The question at the beginning ,did Berry plan to just have Diana as a solo singer from the start and maybe keep Mary and Flo as back up singers for other artists,i'd say yes.We know how The Boss came to be one of the biggest stars in music historythrough talent ,determination,commitment etc,yes she done the Lion's share for the three.So Good to see Rob AND Jimi put the Bull s....... in his place all the time, and try to keep things in perspective well done lads,cheers.

[marv2]

The question at the beginning ,did Berry plan to just have Diana as a solo singer from the start and maybe keep Mary and Flo as back up singers for other artists,i'd say yes.We know how The Boss came to be one of the biggest stars in music historythrough talent ,determination,commitment etc,yes she done the Lion's share for the three.So Good to see Rob AND Jimi put the Bull s....... in his place all the time, and try to keep things in perspective well done lads,cheers.

You sound like the kid on the playground that couldn't fight.

[Roberta75]

You sound like the kid on the playground that couldn't fight.

Threatening people again marv2. will the homophobic attack come next? Now its real obvoious you are not a fan of Diane Ross so why not do us all a favor and leave this thread with the tiny bit of dignity you still have left?

[marv2]

Threatening people again marv2. will the homophobic attack come next? Now its real obvoious you are not a fan of Diane Ross so why not do us all a favor and leave this thread with the tiny bit of dignity you still have left?

Diana Ross was good for her time when material was perfectly tailored for her. She hasn't had a hit in a full 30 years now. If she was so tough, then explain that? The Supremes were a group and that is how they will always be remembered after all the individual members are gone including Diane. Trying to set her above and apart from the others is never going to work except among her dwindling die-hard fans.

[Roberta75]

Diana Ross was good for her time when material was perfectly tailored for her. She hasn't had a hit in a full 30 years now. If she was so tough, then explain that? The Supremes were a group and that is how they will always be remembered after all the individual members are gone including Diane. Trying to set her above and apart from the others is never going to work except among her dwindling die-hard fans.

Thats your opinion which you entitled to but dont threaten other members. We can all read into your "fight in the playground" comment. Weve seen your threats and disgusting comments many times before in this here forum and over at youtube.

[jobeterob]

Sting: The reason I made the comment about WDOLG was because of what is written in TCMS, 1964: "It needed a subtle lead, says Mary Wilson, and since that was my forte and I'd been doing ballads for as long as we'd been together, I was certain it would be given to me. I later learned that Eddie Holland wanted me to sing it, but that his partners had convinced him that Diane had the more commercial sound and besides, wasn't she the lead singer?"

Mary's words. Ironic given what this thread is discussing.

[supremester]

Actually, 30 years ago Miss Ross was prepping her next gold album, Swept Away which contained 3 Top 20 Pop hits - each achieving #1 status in it's respective category somewhere and - one which went top ten pop and #1 Black - but thank you for the exaggerations and falsehoods, Mary.........um, I mean Marv! Evidently Mary's summary of JMC vs Diane's first year sales had a lasting effect on you! LOL No wonder you idolize her so - you both love to diminish the true work of others to make a false impression of Mary's achievements! LOL

Why lie and alter the truth? Miss Ross has sold countless millions of units of new music in the last 30 years - as well as millions of hits packages with & without her years as leader and voice of The Supremes' biggest years. She's had hits on 5 continents in the last 30 years and, while not as prolific as the previous decades, she still has sold a lot. Her dwindling fan base is causing extra shows to be added on her upcoming tour and have filled venues large and small around the world. Her last Euro-tour sold every seat in every ARENA.






LOL
You don't know that! Florence and Mary were never given the chance to hit or miss. So cut the bullshit! Diana Ross was good for her time when material was perfectly tailored for her. She hasn't had a hit in a full 30 years now. If she was so tough, then explain that? The Supremes were a group and that is how they will always be remembered after all the individual members are gone including Diane. Trying to set her above and apart from the others is never going to work except among her dwindling die-hard fans. She'll be 70 years old in a week or so. If she lived another 70 years she will still be remembered as the former lead singer of the Supremes [[actually one of the former lead singers.....).

Now you guys can battle it out over that. I am going now to continue my pleasant weekend!
.

[supremester]

Marv: Both Florence and Mary were given ample opportunity to catch a producer's, or mogul's eye. both had solos as Supremes and plenty of exposure to make a case for their viability. Sadly, there were no takers. It doesn't mean they lacked talent - it just means no one saw a way to sell them to the public - you know, those pesky people who buy records, movie and concert tickets? Lots of stars have had huge careers on much less exposure. Florence and Mary, as members of the biggest group in US history, were noticed a lot by the industry - and passed over. HDH could have signed both when the left Motown - why didn't they? Why give Band of Gold to Freda and not Flo?

[supremester]

You sound like the kid on the playground that couldn't fight.

Oh, you mean he sounds like someone with intelligence enough to actually come to an understanding with those of an opposing view instead of hoping his Wheaties could do his thinking for him? Sounds like a keeper to me!

[supremester]

You are correct but Gordy also asked Miss Ross to sing her song again and has said that he saw a spark in her that made her stand out and, though singing through her nose, made him want to watch her again. It was her that made him want to giver them a try. Eddie Holland suggested Mary for WDOLG as he didn't want Diana's high sound, but Lamont thought it might work being that the track was in a lower key. It worked.


I had read that when the Supremes auditioned at Motown, that Berry Gordy said they sounded OK and that they needed to go back and finish school? when did the story become that when Diana sang that she was the standout of the three? I had read and heard that he was impressed that the group had three lead singers and had impeccable harmonies - something that is very rare with three lead singers.
About this type A personality stuff; if you go on a tour down south and get shot at, threatened, and screamed at, then you come back home and still sing, then I believe that you are a type A personality; all three were probably type A's in some form or function.
When they started releasing singles and they "flopped"; Holland/Dozier/Holland wanted to replace Diana and have Mary sing lead on "Where did our love go". I don't think that anyone on this forum would call H/D/H fools or idiots for suggesting this, as they didn't exactly have tin ears so to speak. Berry wanted Diana to sing lead - and it was the right call. A few people on this forum have suggested in the past that "Where did our love go" would'nt have been as big with Mary singing, but please remember that you had the best band in the whole behind you, the best group of producers behind you, the best set of arrangers behind you, etc. etc.
Let's get this out of the way, the Supremes are Superstars. They were Superstars then and now. You cannot separate Diana, Mary or Flo or Motown as a whole from the Supremes. To suggest that Diana was "the" Superstar and the whole gamut of everyone else were peasants who groveled at her feet is nonsense.
Diana is a legend, a musical icon until the day she dies. Mary has a very successful solo career, one that most musicians would give their right arm and leg for, as I read on this forum last week. I also believe Flo would've gotten herself together and also had a successful career with steady work.

[Jimi LaLumia]

ok now, let's be nice.. after all, the worldwide buzz on "The Diana Ross Story" [[a/k/a Motown: The Musical) must be causing a handful of folks to completely lose their marbles!!!!...LOL..

[stingbeelee]

Thanks Jobeterob for your reply!
Thanks Marv for your kind words!
And Supremster; you are also correct! Berry did see a spark in Diana's eyes. He was also intrigued that, in the early days, the group had three lead singers, which is a big bonus. They also sang acappela, so you heard the lead and the background. For them to sing their songs, switch leads and sing impeccable backgrounds with the switchoffs is remarkable. This took weeks and years of practice.
Now, was Diana meant to be a solo star? In the early days, I would opine no. I believe that they were "meant" to come to Motown as a group. In those times, as very young African-American females, it was a rough, harrowing time. All three needed someone to lean on, and who better than your sister-in-arms? They leaned heavily on each other. Getting shot at? People thinking you were nothing more than a piece of meat to do anything with? They needed to be a group!
After the early days; I think that Diana wanted to be a solo star, and was groomed in that regard.
It turned out to be the right decision.

[jobeterob]

I think Berry, Diana and the Supremes were in the right place at the right time. They merged the R & B Sound with the Pop Sound ~ specifically in the "ooh" of Baby Love and the "Stop" of Stop in the Name of Love and the handclaps of Where Did Our Love Go and Diana's distinctive voice in all of that ~ they changed the world and created a mogul, Berry, and an icon, Diana.

Can anyone/everyone see the worm dangling?

[captainjames]

I don't think the story about Berry telling them to go finish school and come back is true since he signed them before that and since Flo never did finish school. Also, if memory serves me correct half of that HDH wanted DIana and half wanted Mary on WDOLG. Just saying.

[Jimi LaLumia]

well, Thank God the right decision was made cos when I heard WDOLG on the car radio in 1964 when I was 12, it was all about THAT VOICE!!.. If I had heard Mary Wilson muddling her way through the tune, I wouldn't have given it a second thought [[and it probably wouldn't have been getting NY Top 40 airplay in the first place) and The Supremes would have never happened.. EVERYONE knows THAT!!

[supremester]

Maybe he did say that, but Miss Ross wasn't having it. She'd finish school AND go to Motown - every day. If Smokey Robinson's green eyes lived down the street from me - you can be certain that we'd be buds. ; )

[jobeterob]

I think Berry, Diana and the Supremes were in the right place at the right time. They merged the R & B Sound with the Pop Sound ~ specifically in the "ooh" of Baby Love and the "Stop" of Stop in the Name of Love and the handclaps of Where Did Our Love Go and Diana's distinctive voice in all of that ~ they changed the world and created a mogul, Berry, and an icon, Diana.

Can anyone/everyone see the worm dangling?

Two of the three wanted Diana and outvoted Eddie or changed his mind.

[supremester]

All three agree that Diana was the right choice - by a million

[Jimi LaLumia]

I like the post that said half wanted Ross and half wanted Wilson..when there were only three of them!..lol

[captainjames]

Add Wilson and you have 4 ..... not that hard to figure out......:-)



I like the post that said half wanted Ross and half wanted Wilson..when there were only three of them!..lol

[vgalindo]

Add Wilson and you have 4 ..... not that hard to figure out......:-)
Mary didn't have a say or choice in the matter!

[jobeterob]

Mary didn't have a say or choice in the matter!

Not even when she was the prettiest maybe, with the most boyfriends, and didn't even have to come to work or come on time all the time?

Strange how you can be the prettiest with the most boyfriends but still Diane gets the MAIN boyfriend, while being very skinny with small boobs ~ and that main boyfriend scoops them all, owns the company and recognizes "the voice" and proceeds to mistreat the pretty one [[while having 9 children or so and a school of wives).

[thisoldheart]

while all of the supremes in every various format were very attractive, the t.v. camera was pulled to one face ... it is called charisma. when it happens there is no way to explain it accept to admit that it happens. the same with the voice. every supreme could sing, but only one could blast through a radio speaker and stop people dead in their tracks ... and it is not even a great voice, but it is a most distinctive one!

my own tastes lead toward martha reeves and the lead singer of the latter marvelettes records [[the hunter get captured). the closest person i see that had the sass and the voice to be a big star was tammi terrell ... too bad we never had a chance too see where her career would have gone.

[captainjames]

Mary will definitely tell you she had a vote in it.

[Ryon6]

Marv, you state that Ms Ross hasn't had a hit in 30 years. Mary Wilson has never had a solo hit. Her last hit was "Floy Joy" back in 1971-1972 and that was as a member of The Supremes. When will all this bickering end? Can't we all just love and embrace every member of The Supremes, all 9 of them [[Diana, Mary, Florence, Barbara, Cindy, Jean, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye). Let's move on. I would like to talk about The 70s Miracles. I am going to start a post. Please come join me.

[marv2]

Marv, you state that Ms Ross hasn't had a hit in 30 years. Mary Wilson has never had a solo hit. Her last hit was "Floy Joy" back in 1971-1972 and that was as a member of The Supremes. When will all this bickering end? Can't we all just love and embrace every member of The Supremes, all 9 of them [[Diana, Mary, Florence, Barbara, Cindy, Jean, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye). Let's move on. I would like to talk about The 70s Miracles. I am going to start a post. Please come join me.

Yeah that's true [[about Mary not having solo hits etc,) but the subject of this thread was Diana Ross and it quickly turned into how she is better than everyone else ,yada ,yada yada by a few of her most devoted fans. I begged to differ by posing the question that if she is this Goddess from Musical Heaven that is just so irresistable, then why hasn't she been able to hit even the side of a barn in the last 30 years! I went on to say that Diane was good for her time especially when presented with material that was perfectly tailored for her vocal talents. Berry Gordy has said that she was very expensive to produce. I know what he meant by that, some others do not!

The bickering will end when a couple of guys here learn that degrading and de-valuing the other women that were in the Supremes in order to magnify Diana Ross' stardom is not going to work [[you did a bit of it yourself probably without realizing it by mentioning Mary's lack of record hits as if that is all she's ever done was record!) I get that Diane is special to them, but she is not to everyone else or she'd still be a superstar today. She was not singled out by the public as much as she was by Berry and Motown.

[marv2]

Marv, you state that Ms Ross hasn't had a hit in 30 years. Mary Wilson has never had a solo hit. Her last hit was "Floy Joy" back in 1971-1972 and that was as a member of The Supremes. When will all this bickering end? Can't we all just love and embrace every member of The Supremes, all 9 of them [[Diana, Mary, Florence, Barbara, Cindy, Jean, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye). Let's move on. I would like to talk about The 70s Miracles. I am going to start a post. Please come join me.

I had already responded to your Miracles thread before reading your latest posting here. Go check it out!

[Roberta75]

Yeah that's true [[about Mary not having solo hits etc,) but the subject of this thread was Diana Ross and it quickly turned into how she is better than everyone else ,yada ,yada yada by a few of her most devoted fans. I begged to differ by posing the question that if she is this Goddess from Musical Heaven that is just so irresistable, then why hasn't she been able to hit even the side of a barn in the last 30 years! I went on to say that Diane was good for her time especially when presented with material that was perfectly tailored for her vocal talents. Berry Gordy has said that she was very expensive to produce. I know what he meant by that, some others do not!

The bickering will end when a couple of guys here learn that degrading and de-valuing the other women that were in the Supremes in order to magnify Diana Ross' stardom is not going to work [[you did a bit of it yourself probably without realizing it by mentioning Mary's lack of record hits as if that is all she's ever done was record!) I get that Diane is special to them, but she is not to everyone else or she'd still be a superstar today. She was not singled out by the public as much as she was by Berry and Motown.

The bickering will end when you stay out of Diane Ross related threads. Every single time Diane go on tour Marv2 get all riled up and real nasty. we all know hes totally obsessed with Diane but its almost like hes real jealous of her as well. What a real sad and pathetic and unhappy and bitter and nasty person marv2 is.

Roberta

[sophisticated_soul]

If Diana had started out as a solo, then albums would have been like "Meet Diana Ross", "More Hits by Diana Ross" "Diana A' Go-Go!" "I Remember Sam Cooke" . . .:)

[marv2]

The bickering will end when you stay out of Diane Ross related threads. Every single time Diane go on tour Marv2 get all riled up and real nasty. we all know hes totally obsessed with Diane but its almost like hes real jealous of her as well. What a real sad and pathetic and unhappy and bitter and nasty person marv2 is.

Roberta

I've been a member of this forum for 11 years and I have the right to go into any thread that is not marked PRIVATE! You can go to hell Jonc!

[Roberta75]

I've been a member of this forum for 11 years and I have the right to go into any thread that is not marked PRIVATE! You can go to hell Jonc!

You are the one going to hell marv2 unless you change you ways and thats a fact. Every thread in this here forum that you post in goes south. Now you can jonc me till you blue in the face but im Roberta and i will be praying real hard that find your decency and self respect because nobody is pure evil although a lot of folk here thinks you are. Your longevity dont make you respected. The Reverent Fred Phelps has been a preacher a lot longer than youve been posting here but hes still a miserable human being whos full of hate. Myabe you can relate to him but hopefully not.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/03/18/fred-phelps-death-facebook/6557263/

Roberta

[Lulu]

I cannot believe what I'm reading here. I don't understand why FOURTY FOUR years after she went solo, anyone is still speculating why this happened OR who "suffered" as a result. Diana Ross serving as the lead singer of The Supremes, charting TWELVE number one hits while doing so, having a successful solo career and STILL managing to sell out nearly all of her engagements are ALL accomplishments she achieved thanks to her fans and the record buying public. To keep saying all of this happened because of Berry Gordy and TPTB at Motown is ludicrous. I guarantee that, had Mary, Florence or Cindy been the lead singer, the group would have dissolved into obscurity early on. Diana Ross had the most commercial voice and the most charismatic personality. This is not a matter of opinion - it is a FACT and the success of the group supports this FACT.

Unfortunately, Mary Wilson, Florence Ballard Martha Reeves, Gladys Knight, The Marvelettes, Kim Weston and many many others did not achieve the same success as Diana Ross during this time. Neither did Patti LaBelle or Bettye LaVette or Darlene Love. Is this Diana Ross's fault? Is this Berry Gordy's fault? ANYONE WITH A LOGICAL MIND WILL TELL YOU: NO AND NO.

I am so tired of these arguments and debates. The facts are the facts and hopefully at some point, the bitchy queens who troll these forums and YouTube comments section [[if any of you go by "Twtr4ever" on YouTube, you are seriously disturbed and trust me, steps are being taken to have you banned) will give up and just stop with all the drama.

[jobeterob]

I cannot believe what I'm reading here. I don't understand why FOURTY FOUR years after she went solo, anyone is still speculating why this happened OR who "suffered" as a result. Diana Ross serving as the lead singer of The Supremes, charting TWELVE number one hits while doing so, having a successful solo career and STILL managing to sell out nearly all of her engagements are ALL accomplishments she achieved thanks to her fans and the record buying public. To keep saying all of this happened because of Berry Gordy and TPTB at Motown is ludicrous. I guarantee that, had Mary, Florence or Cindy been the lead singer, the group would have dissolved into obscurity early on. Diana Ross had the most commercial voice and the most charismatic personality. This is not a matter of opinion - it is a FACT and the success of the group supports this FACT.

Unfortunately, Mary Wilson, Florence Ballard Martha Reeves, Gladys Knight, The Marvelettes, Kim Weston and many many others did not achieve the same success as Diana Ross during this time. Neither did Patti LaBelle or Bettye LaVette or Darlene Love. Is this Diana Ross's fault? Is this Berry Gordy's fault? ANYONE WITH A LOGICAL MIND WILL TELL YOU: NO AND NO.

I am so tired of these arguments and debates. The facts are the facts and hopefully at some point, the bitchy queens who troll these forums and YouTube comments section [[if any of you go by "Twtr4ever" on YouTube, you are seriously disturbed and trust me, steps are being taken to have you banned) will give up and just stop with all the drama.

Say it again, Say it again! Good Girl Lulu, tell em!

We probably don't have Twtr4ever but we have the other loon, that goes with him ~ DetroitLives313. That's Marv. Jealous, miserable, perverse.

[Lulu]

Say it again, Say it again! Good Girl Lulu, tell em!

We probably don't have Twtr4ever but we have the other loon, that goes with him ~ DetroitLives313. That's Marv. Jealous, miserable, perverse.

I just cannot FATHOM trash talking a soon-to-be SEVENTY year old woman! It's as bad as those loony ass GOPs taking cheap shots at Mrs. Clinton!!! Bullies suck!

[Lulu]

Say it again, Say it again! Good Girl Lulu, tell em!

We probably don't have Twtr4ever but we have the other loon, that goes with him ~ DetroitLives313. That's Marv. Jealous, miserable, perverse.

Eek:

http://soulfuldetroit.com/archive/index.php/t-10307.html

I think I know a few psychiatrists in Detroit should anyone need "help"!

[juicefree20]

The bottom line is that you have to consider how the Pop music world was in 1964.

And no, I don't believe that there was any grand scheme to make Diana a solo act, not at first. But once The Supremes took off & Diana's style & vocals caught on so tremendously & the internal bickering began, that's likely when the seed became planted. While a great group, other groups have lost members whom sang in the background & continued forward. But truthfully, by that time there was only one irreplaceable voice in The Supremes & no matter how much I may have preferred Mary & Flo, history has already weighed in on this & no matter what I may think or wish that things had gone, the facts are the facts & can't be changed even if I wanted to.

While I've always heard about the dynamic voice that Flo possessed, I just never got to hear it. Now on "Buttered Popcorn" & certainly not on those ABC songs that finally saw the light of day.

Back in 1964, you didn't hear Girl Groups with a lead singer singing with a "ballsy" soulful voice. That's just not how it was back then & if I'm wrong, please name one group from The Crystals to The Shangri-Las whom did. Hell, Aretha was still singing Jazz & pop standards back then & we know what Dionne was singing, so Flo being the lead was likely not an option when it came to Berry getting The Supremes to where he was trying to go.

Think about the Black entertainers whom were crossing over to Pop, showing up on Ed Sullivan & Hollywood Palace & playing The Copa & other supper clubs. The Drifters were having hits with Brazilian-tinged sounds, Jackie Wilson was singing Pop & Sam Cooke had to water down his Gospel roots & make crap like "Cousin Of Mine" & "Tennesee Waltz". Compare his "Live At The Copa" Lp recorded for that "smart" supper crowd, to his "Harlem Square" LP which was obviously recorded for an entirely different crowd & you'll understand why Berry put Diana up front & it made perfect economic sense.

Now had it been between 1967 & 1968 when Stax & Otis had gained acceptance with the Pop crowd & Aretha completely kicked down the doors & James, Wilson & Joe Tex were hitting the Pop charts singing straight out pure Soul, then perhaps Flo would've been the best choice.

But not in the Pop world as it was in 1963.

The truth is that that Pop crowd could relate to Diana purely based upon her enunciation. You understood every word that Diana sang. Her voice which was ringing out during a very threatening period in our history, The Civil Rights Era, was non-threatening in nature.

For reasons which are purely sensible & economic in basis, not because it was done to hold anyone back, but simply because it made perfect sense. This isn't to say that Diana had the BEST voice. But it is to say that she had the most DISTINCTIVE voice. Whereas the other ladies could've blended in along with the rest of the talented singers whom were around back then, no one sounded like Diana Ross. And that's not a knock on Mary nor Flo, it's just the truth.

And if you look at the charts circa 1963/64, remember how Pop Radio sounded back then or even remember how those days were from a musical perspective with just about every R&B singer trying to sound more Pop, you know that I'm speaking nothing but the truth.

[supremester]

The main problem as I see it is that a very well crafted book was written and it contained a lot of thinly disguised character assassination to create a villain and two victims. The villain became wildly successful while her victims could have been just as big or bigger if only.......... The book convinced a lot of people this POV was accurate and the victims suffered horribly under the tyranny of the villain. Sides were drawn. Some felt the book was ridiculously one-sided and dismissed it as rubbish. Some believed it - why would the author choose to misrepresent the story? Now, after decades of some believing the story and extensions that were also grossly misrepresented, more and more aspects of the book are proved to be totally false and some of the believers, radically incensed for decades, have sunk into obsessiveness and unbridled hatred while others cannot bring themselves to believe they were so totally hoodwinked as it turns out that one of the victims has, in fact, become the villain.

[Lulu]

The main problem as I see it is that a very well crafted book was written and it contained a lot of thinly disguised character assassination to create a villain and two victims. The villain became wildly successful while her victims could have been just as big or bigger if only.......... The book convinced a lot of people this POV was accurate and the victims suffered horribly under the tyranny of the villain. Sides were drawn. Some felt the book was ridiculously one-sided and dismissed it as rubbish. Some believed it - why would the author choose to misrepresent the story? Now, after decades of some believing the story and extensions that were also grossly misrepresented, more and more aspects of the book are proved to be totally false and some of the believers, radically incensed for decades, have sunk into obsessiveness and unbridled hatred while others cannot bring themselves to believe they were so totally hoodwinked as it turns out that one of the victims has, in fact, become the villain.

I'm always amazed by anyone who made some sort of decision after reading Dreamgirl: My Life As A Supreme. Nothing about that book changed my mind about The Supremes, Diana Ross or Mary Wilson. In fact, I had forgotten about Mary Wilson by then aside from her brief appearance at Motown 25. I followed the Supremes through their disbandment in 1977, bought Partners and Mary Wilson in 1979 and basically lost track of any of the group members other than Diana Ross. This was long before the internet so I had to rely on television appearances and newspapers and magazines for any updates or news. That being said, I didn't think anything about Mary Wilson's book either way. It was nice to hear from her as we hadn't had an autobiography from any of the ladies up to that point and I appreciated the timeline in the back of the book as I am a sucker for dates and annotations!!!

[marv2]

The bottom line is that you have to consider how the Pop music world was in 1964.

And no, I don't believe that there was any grand scheme to make Diana a solo act, not at first. But once The Supremes took off & Diana's style & vocals caught on so tremendously & the internal bickering began, that's likely when the seed became planted. While a great group, other groups have lost members whom sang in the background & continued forward. But truthfully, by that time there was only one irreplaceable voice in The Supremes & no matter how much I may have preferred Mary & Flo, history has already weighed in on this & no matter what I may think or wish that things had gone, the facts are the facts & can't be changed even if I wanted to.

While I've always heard about the dynamic voice that Flo possessed, I just never got to hear it. Now on "Buttered Popcorn" & certainly not on those ABC songs that finally saw the light of day.

Back in 1964, you didn't hear Girl Groups with a lead singer singing with a "ballsy" soulful voice. That's just not how it was back then & if I'm wrong, please name one group from The Crystals to The Shangri-Las whom did. Hell, Aretha was still singing Jazz & pop standards back then & we know what Dionne was singing, so Flo being the lead was likely not an option when it came to Berry getting The Supremes to where he was trying to go.

Think about the Black entertainers whom were crossing over to Pop, showing up on Ed Sullivan & Hollywood Palace & playing The Copa & other supper clubs. The Drifters were having hits with Brazilian-tinged sounds, Jackie Wilson was singing Pop & Sam Cooke had to water down his Gospel roots & make crap like "Cousin Of Mine" & "Tennesee Waltz". Compare his "Live At The Copa" Lp recorded for that "smart" supper crowd, to his "Harlem Square" LP which was obviously recorded for an entirely different crowd & you'll understand why Berry put Diana up front & it made perfect economic sense.

Now had it been between 1967 & 1968 when Stax & Otis had gained acceptance with the Pop crowd & Aretha completely kicked down the doors & James, Wilson & Joe Tex were hitting the Pop charts singing straight out pure Soul, then perhaps Flo would've been the best choice.

But not in the Pop world as it was in 1963.

The truth is that that Pop crowd could relate to Diana purely based upon her enunciation. You understood every word that Diana sang. Her voice which was ringing out during a very threatening period in our history, The Civil Rights Era, was non-threatening in nature.

For reasons which are purely sensible & economic in basis, not because it was done to hold anyone back, but simply because it made perfect sense. This isn't to say that Diana had the BEST voice. But it is to say that she had the most DISTINCTIVE voice. Whereas the other ladies could've blended in along with the rest of the talented singers whom were around back then, no one sounded like Diana Ross. And that's not a knock on Mary nor Flo, it's just the truth.

And if you look at the charts circa 1963/64, remember how Pop Radio sounded back then or even remember how those days were from a musical perspective with just about every R&B singer trying to sound more Pop, you know that I'm speaking nothing but the truth.

Uh huh..... now see there! You did it again! You always nail it don't you Juice! Promise me you'll try to post at least once a week? Cool?

[marv2]

The main problem as I see it is that a very well crafted book was written and it contained a lot of thinly disguised character assassination to create a villain and two victims. The villain became wildly successful while her victims could have been just as big or bigger if only.......... The book convinced a lot of people this POV was accurate and the victims suffered horribly under the tyranny of the villain. Sides were drawn. Some felt the book was ridiculously one-sided and dismissed it as rubbish. Some believed it - why would the author choose to misrepresent the story? Now, after decades of some believing the story and extensions that were also grossly misrepresented, more and more aspects of the book are proved to be totally false and some of the believers, radically incensed for decades, have sunk into obsessiveness and unbridled hatred while others cannot bring themselves to believe they were so totally hoodwinked as it turns out that one of the victims has, in fact, become the villain.

Nothing Mary Wilson wrote in "Dreamgirls, My Life As A Supreme" directly pertaining to Diana Ross was false! Yeah, a lot of people, bought and read the book all over the World. All Mary did was confirm what most people had suspected for a long while.

Where were the lawsuits if the book was untrue? You'd better be happy that she didn't tell everything.........you would have had a stroke if she had! LOL!!!

[Roberta75]

Uh huh..... now see there! You did it again! You always nail it don't you Juice! Promise me you'll try to post at least once a week? Cool?

While i agree 200% what dear Juice wrote i have to say that if anyone else had wrote the following about Flos voice and the praising of Diane Ross you wouldnt be begging them to post once a week youd be viciouslly attacking them from all sides.

"While I've always heard about the dynamic voice that Flo possessed, I just never got to hear it. Now on "Buttered Popcorn" & certainly not on those ABC songs that finally saw the light of day"

"Berry put Diana up front & it made perfect economic sense"

"The truth is that that Pop crowd could relate to Diana purely based upon her enunciation. You understood every word that Diana sang"

"This isn't to say that Diana had the BEST voice. But it is to say that she had the most DISTINCTIVE voice. Whereas the other ladies could've blended in along with the rest of the talented singers whom were around back then, no one sounded like Diana Ross"

You are real good at playing nice when it suits you and you know what side your bread buttered on here so i understand it. Its real amusing but understandable.

Thakns for the chuckle.:cool:;):D

Roberta

[marv2]

While i agree 200% what dear Juice wrote i have to say that if anyone else had wrote the following about Flos voice and the praising of Diane Ross you wouldnt be begging them to post once a week youd be viciouslly attacking them from all sides.

"While I've always heard about the dynamic voice that Flo possessed, I just never got to hear it. Now on "Buttered Popcorn" & certainly not on those ABC songs that finally saw the light of day"

"Berry put Diana up front & it made perfect economic sense"

"The truth is that that Pop crowd could relate to Diana purely based upon her enunciation. You understood every word that Diana sang"

"This isn't to say that Diana had the BEST voice. But it is to say that she had the most DISTINCTIVE voice. Whereas the other ladies could've blended in along with the rest of the talented singers whom were around back then, no one sounded like Diana Ross"

You are real good at playing nice when it suits you and you know what side your bread buttered on here so i understand it. Its real amusing but understandable.

Thakns for the chuckle.:cool:;):D

Roberta

I thought you were supposed to be putting me on "Ignore" over a year ago? You can't do it can you? I control you.............hehehehehehehehe!

[Roberta75]

I thought you were supposed to be putting me on "Ignore" over a year ago? You can't do it can you? I control you.............hehehehehehehehe!

Only God control me dear. you cant control your temper or your manners or your vicious tongue or your twisting and distortting the truth but we all onto you. Now i had you on ignore but you kept responding to my posts and goading and goading me and thats the gospel truth.

[marv2]

Only God control me dear. you cant control your temper or your manners or your vicious tongue or your twisting and distortting the truth but we all onto you. Now i had you on ignore but you kept responding to my posts and goading and goading me and thats the gospel truth.

We all know that you are the ex forum member formerly known as "Jonc"!

[Roberta75]

We all know that you are the ex forum member formerly known as "Jonc"!

Im sorry for you marv real sorry for you and believe it or not I pray for you. I sense you are real unhappy and troubled and probably very lonely which causes you to lash out at people and your personal attacks mask a real sadness and show us a real unhappy person.

I offer you this prayer for you in friendship marv2. if Ive ever been cruel or hurttful to you I ask your forgiveness like I ask for Gods forgiveness for my sins.

Father in Jesus name please help this sad person to live in hope and trust and to be happy to follow you loving direction Please help this angry person to become more positive and happy, and to see the good in others more. Make him see Lord that hes God's creation and God made him with so much love so help him dear father to live a happy and positive life free of hate and anger and seek shelter and saftety and security in you the Lord our God. Help him live his life God's way and he will notice a beautifull change. Everyday is a miracle. Being able to wake up and have life one more day..thats real amazing so sieze it and love every blessing life can offer you.

I ask this in Jesus name.

Humbly.

Roberta