Supremes on the Tonight Show 1967

[floyjoy678]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ULrqBRJ9Os

One of Florence's last appearances with the group. Even through the bad quality of the video, you can easily see the girls were at the top of their game even with everything that was going on.

[reese]

This is the best footage from this appearance that I have seen. Usually they post the version that has the screen split into separate small squares.

[soulballad]

This is fantastic. The original ladies at their best!

[supremester]

Mary & Flo at their finest performance-wise and looking great. We watched it 10x and I can't see one thing to suggest Flo would be gone 6 weeks later. She's thinner, totally on top of her game on both songs and the interplay with Mary seems genuine and not forced. As much as I love this clip, it's heartbreaking to see The Supremes at their apex and, also on the eve of their demise. Miss Ross so nails Lady Is a Tramp that you'd think she'd been doing it for years instead of weeks. She's so small and frail looking that it's amazing she can be so........energetic.

[ejluther]

SO terrific to see this - if only they could have stayed together - watching it makes me happy and sad...


Usually they post the version that has the screen split into separate small squares.
I've never seen that version - any links to it out there?

[reese]

SO terrific to see this - if only they could have stayed together - watching it makes me happy and sad...


I've never seen that version - any links to it out there?

Its the same content as this. They just split the screen into squares a la the Brady Bunch. The middle square would be the actual show, and the surrounding squares were constantly changing freeze frames.

[ejluther]

And the quality was the same, too?

[reese]

And the quality was the same, too?

Basicially. Hopefully a better version will turn up one day.

[antceleb12]

I heard that the original tapes were erased, so now all we have are personal tapes like these.

[supremester]

I'm so grateful, I don't even care that much about the quality - except for the missing stuff. It's just SO wonderful to see them all so wonderful, I just feel wonderful about it. Made me run to my dog eared copy of Dreamgirl and re-read Mary's account of the evening. It's like reading a history book and then being able to watch it happen - try it!

[reese]

I heard that the original tapes were erased, so now all we have are personal tapes like these.

True. But every now and then a really rare video like Marvin and Tammi on the Tonight Show slips out and gives us a little hope.

[antceleb12]

True. But every now and then a really rare video like Marvin and Tammi on the Tonight Show slips out and gives us a little hope.

Yes! It would be great to see the Supremes clip in a clean format, but it's still wonderful to actually be able to see their whole appearance!

[Methuselah2]

Many thanks for posting this, Floyjoy. What a treat!

[REDHOT]

i also love this performance,yes The Supremes Mary Florence and Diana was at the top of the game here,pro's,Superstars,i feel someday a clean copy will show up.

[bradsupremes]

I only wish their other appearances [[once in '65, '66, '68, and twice in '69) also came to light; however NBC erased all of the pre-1972 Tonight Shows. The only ones who I would think may have these appearances in their tape archives would be Motown.

[reese]

I only wish their other appearances [[once in '65, '66, '68, and twice in '69) also came to light; however NBC erased all of the pre-1972 Tonight Shows. The only ones who I would think may have these appearances in their tape archives would be Motown.

That was what was said for years. Supposedly the only 60s clips that survived were those used for Emmy submission rules. But a 1964 Sam Cooke appearance was used on his LEGEND dvd, and a 1967 clip of Marvin and Tammi was posted on YouTube when the Carson archives were opened. So there is some small hope.

[skooldem1]

Is this suppose to be the interview where after Diana spoke about replacements, that Florence then took over the interview?

[jobeterob]

Is this suppose to be the interview where after Diana spoke about replacements, that Florence then took over the interview?

That would be another rumour debunked!

[jillfoster]

That would be another rumour debunked!

It seems Mary was the one who interrupted Diane.

[supremester]

".....After this Flo monopolized the entire interview, interrupting Diane to give clever and honest answers to his questions. The audience loved her............"

I love how she went into such great detail to describe the comments as "clever and honest" implying that there was a contrast to what others may have been saying. I guess if you are going to make up an entire conversation, you might as well go all the way! LOL

As good as this is, it still doesn't top Mary's bewilderment as to why she was not invited to Miss Ross' post Forum party at Spago "...sniff sniff...what did I do?.... sob....sniff...uh, are the cameras getting this?? ....sob sob...sniff...what did I do?....sniff...sniff..."

Can you get an Emmy nomination for an Entertainment Tonight interview?

[jobeterob]

".....After this Flo monopolized the entire interview, interrupting Diane to give clever and honest answers to his questions. The audience loved her............"

I love how she went into such great detail to describe the comments as "clever and honest" implying that there was a contrast to what others may have been saying. I guess if you are going to make up an entire conversation, you might as well go all the way! LOL

As good as this is, it still doesn't top Mary's bewilderment as to why she was not invited to Miss Ross' post Forum party at Spago "...sniff sniff...what did I do?.... sob....sniff...uh, are the cameras getting this?? ....sob sob...sniff...what did I do?....sniff...sniff..."

Can you get an Emmy nomination for an Entertainment Tonight interview?

Well it depends who is on your nominating committee! And yes, she could get one.

[supremester]

She was robbed!

[smark21]

Granted the video quality is horrid, but I sense that Diana Ross is overdoing it with the facial expressions. Might work for the stage but not for a close up shot. Still, she managed to get that undercontrol by the time The Supremes performed Always on Ed Sullivan just a year or so later. If only Mary Wilson could learn at this late date to consistently tone down the facial expressions whenever a TV camera is pointed in her direction.

[jobeterob]

http://newsfeed.time.com/2014/02/16/1-in-4-americans-thinks-sun-orbits-earth/?hpt=hp_t3

It's true; so expectations, as suggested on another thread should not be too high.

Facial expressions: well everything Supreme got overblown by the fans, and isn't it consistent with history that Diana's expressions relaxed and Mary's got more intense? One shunned the spotlight and one grasps for whatever she can get?

[luke]

From what I could see Flo very subdued. Mary totally at ease, her timing impeccable and Diana on top of her game.

[supremester]

Overdoing it???? I haven't seen so much ham onscreen since I was forced at gunpoint to watch The Way We Were AND Funny Lady at a Pride fundraiser in 2009. [[Had A Star Is Born been on the bill, I would simply have changed my orientation.) Poor video quality or not, this is Miss Ross at her over-the-top apex that I know of. I didn't see this when it aired, she wasn't normally like this on TV, but she sure is putting everything into it. She's disturbingly nervous and thinner than a pound of soap after a hard day's wash. I'd have cancelled the next three weeks and sent her to a Thanksgiving Dinner Rehab farm. I'm knocked out at how brilliant she is on Lady Is A Tramp - especially considering they just added it.
Granted the video quality is horrid, but I sense that Diana Ross is overdoing it with the facial expressions. Might work for the stage but not for a close up shot. Still, she managed to get that undercontrol by the time The Supremes performed Always on Ed Sullivan just a year or so later. If only Mary Wilson could learn at this late date to consistently tone down the facial expressions whenever a TV camera is pointed in her direction.

[marybrewster]

Is this suppose to be the interview where after Diana spoke about replacements, that Florence then took over the interview?

It is, although I don't know that Floence "takes over the interview".

If you start at about 3:30, that's where the meat of the interview is.

Johnny asks about the rumors of the Supremes breaking up, and replacing Betty and Barbara.

Funny thing though; Johnny had moved on to another topic and Diana went back and mentioned how Mary and Florence have "replacements".

This is the Supremes in their PRIME! I love everything about this: their outfits, Mary's ponytail. And while some say Diana is over-the-top, I think she looks fabulous and sounds fabulous.

[marybrewster]

A silly question; was this originally broadcast in black and white? By 1967, weren't most programs in color?

[antceleb12]

A silly question; was this originally broadcast in black and white? By 1967, weren't most programs in color?

I was wondering that, too, but then again there's a 1967 Spain appearance where they sing "The Happening" in black and white, as well as the Talk of the Town program.

[Jimi LaLumia]

Ross went back to the 'replacements' subject because Gordy probably told her to set up Flo's 'vacation', and he was paying the bills.. and as to Ross not having a replacement, I just met someone [[senior military vet) who took his kids to see The Supremes at the Steel Pier in Jersey around 66/67, and he said she wasn't there, someone else was singing lead..

[johnny_raven]

CBS went to color in the Fall of 1965, NBC & ABC followed suit shortly thereafter. This might be from a kinescope [[which would explain why it's in black & white).

[antceleb12]

Ross went back to the 'replacements' subject because Gordy probably told her to set up Flo's 'vacation', and he was paying the bills.. and as to Ross not having a replacement, I just met someone [[senior military vet) who took his kids to see The Supremes at the Steel Pier in Jersey around 66/67, and he said she wasn't there, someone else was singing lead..

I don't want to doubt your friend, seeing as I was not there, but if that were true - that Diana was absent from an engagement - Mary would have certainly mentioned that in her book.

But then again she was hospitalized sometime in mid or late 1966. Did the Supremes perform during Ross' hospitalization?

[supremester]

That's cuz Flo doesn't take over the interview - it's just Mary creating more fiction to support the grim fairy tale that she wanted the world to absorb and without the internet, we would have believed most of it. Some of it never made sense, but a lot of it, well, there was no reason to doubt it. So now, with so much of what she has said/done concerning Diana/Flo proving to be untrue, I assume it's either a total lie or, colored to advance her agenda. While I always questioned some of Dreamgirl, it wasn't until I interviewed Gil that I learned how wrong and ugly some of it is. He was shocked, for example, at my question "Why didn't Flo get a solo?" He had no idea that Dreamgirl said it was taken from Flo because he quit reading It before he got to that part and, annoyed, told me it was in the show until she left unless she wasn't up to it an asked for it to be taken out for that show. It fascinates me at the lengths Mary went to create her fable.

And Mary wonders why Ross keeps her distance. ......or says she does anyway. LOL

I think the tonight Show was in color by 1960/61 this is a 1/2" transfer and would be B&W back then. Flo is smaller and cuter than I expected and Mary looks like a million bucks in that pony tail. She's workin' it too! More than anything, seeing them as such a cohesive unit is sensational.

I don't believe they did shows without Ross or we would have heard about it. "She SAID they couldn't stand in for her - but they did. She acted like WE were replaceable but SHE wasn't. Flo and I were devastated and that night went back to our smaller rooms and cried while she and Berry danced naked in the moonlight on a sea of 100 dollar bills."

[jobeterob]

Does the book really say what you typed at the end??? It can't! It's been years since I read it.

[supremester]

LOL no........just my impression of how she'd put that in a book if Miss Ross did in fact have a stand in at some show [[s). I'm just being a smart ass but I am shocked at just how many untruths could be contained in book written "to set the record straight" plus it makes me curious as to just how much more there is that falls into the fiction category. I know some others but I can't even mention them because I promised I wouldn't. Also, should certain people write books, it will be verrrrrry interesting indeed.

[milven]

CBS went to color in the Fall of 1965, NBC & ABC followed suit shortly thereafter. This might be from a kinescope [[which would explain why it's in black & white).

Actually, NBC was first to broadcast much of its schedule in color. NBC and CBS competed to get their color systems approved. NBC's system was compatible and could be seen in black and white on B&W tvs. They started their color programs with the NBC Peacock and the announcement "The following program is being brought to you in living color" The TONIGHT SHOW was one of the first shows to broadcast in color, stereo and HD. It may have started broadcasting in color as early as 1960 or 1961.

The you tube link and its quality leads me to believe that a fan had an early recording device and recorded this at time of broadcast. The recording device was hooked up to rabit ears and that is why the quality is not that great. I did the same thing a few years later with a recording system that pre-dated betamax. I would tape shows like Mike Douglas if the Supremes or another favorite artist was on. But if my recorder was hooked up to rabit ears instead of the roof antennae, the quality sometimes left a lot to be disired.

Whoever recorded, saved and posted this clip on You Tube did a tremendous favor for Supremes fans.

[supremester]

There were shows, like The Lucy Show that filmed in color but CBS still showed in B&W until they did the big switch. That summer, they didn't show The Lucy/Desi Comedy Hour because it was in B&W. I was not happy and I guess they got a lot of flack because it was back the next summer - the only show in CBS prime time in B&W. Had I known there was a way to tape TV shows, I'd have done it and we'd be watching these on Youtube. In 1993, I sent out 1100 copies of every DR&TS on Ed Sullivan. The quality was only fair to good but it was better than not having them. I searched for years trying to get the other episodes that were listed in Dreamgirl, but she must have been mistaken as they are not on The Sullivan master list. How cool it would have been to see/hear Some Things You Never Get Used To. I also have never seen The Expo episode. THIS has been such a treat. I didn't know Mary had the pony tail so long before TCB - I'd have worn it to bed it looked so good. I hope someday we get to see the April '68 Tonight Show [[MLK) and Nov '69 Tonight Show to hear them discuss the impending split.

[jobeterob]

It is pretty easy to understand Mary Wilson's jealousy. To come up with someone and go from nothing to "as hot as the Beatles" and then have one of you become the star and walk away ~ I would have been jealous too as would almost any other human being.

[supremester]

Definitely. I've always thought that it might be tough and it's entirely possible very little or nothing was done to ease those feelings.

[REDHOT]

Again,i hope a clean copy of this show,pops up one day,all 3 Supremes were great,loved it.

[milven]

There were shows, like The Lucy Show that filmed in color but CBS still showed in B&W until they did the big switch. ....

The first season or two was filmed in black and white. That is why they are still broadcast in black and white in reruns. The beginning seasons of Bewitched were also filmed in black and white. The one series that I can think of that was filmed in color - even though color TV did not exist - is Superman.

How far off topic are we ? :D

[milven]

It is pretty easy to understand Mary Wilson's jealousy. To come up with someone and go from nothing to "as hot as the Beatles" and then have one of you become the star and walk away ~ I would have been jealous too as would almost any other human being.

Beatles and Supremes top years were 1964 to 1970.
Every one knew the names of John Paul George and Ringo and Diana Flo and Mary
Substance abuse, infighting, jealousy and the fact that they felt that their group had peaked made the Beatles split and go on to solo careers.

The Supremes also had substance abuse, infighting, jealousy and by 1970, the group had also peaked. Diana went solo, Mary wasn't ready and tried to hold the group together until she was ready in 1977. Diana, John, Paul, George and even Ringo - a drummer - were able to cash in on their group's fame and have successful solo careers. Mary wasn't confident enough at the time to go solo and was satisfied to let her life remain the same. Life does not come with a remote control. You gotta get up and make things happen. Diana and the Beatles did that. Mary waited seven years and used the Supremes as a crutch to keep a career going. By 1977. it was hard for her to start a solo career. She should be jealous of no one. If she had the confidence in 1970 that she has today, she may have been able to start a solo career back then too.

But speaking as a Supremes fan, I'm glad she didn't. The Seventies Supremes and all their members gave me much joy on vinyl and on TV and in concert.

[captainjames]

crossroads


It is pretty easy to understand Mary Wilson's jealousy. To come up with someone and go from nothing to "as hot as the Beatles" and then have one of you become the star and walk away ~ I would have been jealous too as would almost any other human being.

[smark21]

Does anyone know if Yoko Ono was considered to replace Diane Ross in the Supremes?

[supremester]

Yes - but no one ever talks about it anymore. Yoko expressed interest and contacted Diana who "decided that she was far too busy to even acknowledge" that there ever was a group called The Supremes and "went out of her way to pretend they never existed." Hurt, but undaunted, Yoko then went to Mary, who had not yet "made her right and logical decision to replace Diane and carry on with the group. " [[Imagine how relived Berry was to hear THAT!) Mary told Yoko to come back after she finished art school. Mary knew if she asked Berry if she could take Diane's place that he'd say yes, but she unselfishly felt that the damage she endured singing background with The Supremes required years of music therapy to correct. Yoko, hearing that Mary had decided to appear ambivalent about taking Diane's place - particularly to many at Motown, as a matter-of-fact, contacted Mary again and negotiations went well until Yoko insisted on changing the hits medley to speeded up versions "No No No" "Give me Something" "I'm Moving On" "Dog Town" and "Walking On Thin Ice"....Mary refused, giving Yoko until January 14th to agree to sing the medley as written. On Jan 28th, Yoko called Mary to agree to her terms, she saw the light - too late, as the Love Train had left The Loving Country......... and that's how we wound up with Jean Terrell. Most of this is in Supreme Faith which I haven't seen in years but is proving to be an appropriate bathroom book and a fun read a page or two at a time.

[TheMotownManiac]

I never saw those in black and white.
The first season or two was filmed in black and white. That is why they are still broadcast in black and white in reruns. The beginning seasons of Bewitched were also filmed in black and white. The one series that I can think of that was filmed in color - even though color TV did not exist - is Superman.

How far off topic are we ? :D

[smark21]

Yes - but no one ever talks about it anymore. Yoko expressed interest and contacted Diana who "decided that she was far too busy to even acknowledge" that there ever was a group called The Supremes and "went out of her way to pretend they never existed." Hurt, but undaunted, Yoko then went to Mary, who had not yet "made her right and logical decision to replace Diane and carry on with the group. " [[Imagine how relived Berry was to hear THAT!) Mary told Yoko to come back after she finished art school. Mary knew if she asked Berry if she could take Diane's place that he'd say yes, but she unselfishly felt that the damage she endured singing background with The Supremes required years of music therapy to correct. Yoko, hearing that Mary had decided to appear ambivalent about taking Diane's place - particularly to many at Motown, as a matter-of-fact, contacted Mary again and negotiations went well until Yoko insisted on changing the hits medley to speeded up versions "No No No" "Give me Something" "I'm Moving On" "Dog Town" and "Walking On Thin Ice"....Mary refused, giving Yoko until January 14th to agree to sing the medley as written. On Jan 28th, Yoko called Mary to agree to her terms, she saw the light - too late, as the Love Train had left The Loving Country......... and that's how we wound up with Jean Terrell. Most of this is in Supreme Faith which I haven't seen in years but is proving to be an appropriate bathroom book and a fun read a page or two at a time.

OH dear, poor Mary.

[supremester]

well, she soldiered on, chin up and faced the world with pride settling for Jean Terrell instead of household name Yoko Ono. I think, ultimately it worked out for the best. Except one thing: I would have loved to see Mary & Cindy sing and perform the bgs to Give Me Something, No No No and, especially, Dogtown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_wxSfGp2v4

[[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_wxSfGp2v4)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_59e9V1TEkI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ym9dbXR3RA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzV7FiuDYKo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Z8f_vt1MY

[antceleb12]

And to think, the world could have seen this treasure as the next Diana Ross...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9tqHLmPDUk

[smark21]

Yoko is fierce and fearless! She makes Miss Ross at her most divaesque seem like a wallflower.

[marv2]

Yoko is fierce and fearless! She makes Miss Ross at her most divaesque seem like a wallflower.

She may have backed Mary up on "Stop in The Name of Love" at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Inductions in 1988.........I like May Pang better.

[antceleb12]

Yoko is fierce and fearless! She makes Miss Ross at her most divaesque seem like a wallflower.

She may be fearless, but she has no musical talent. I don't care what you say, she has no musical talent and whatever comes out of her mouth is just painful.

[floyjoy678]

So did Mary ever miss a show between 1964 and 1967? I seem to recall she said she never missed a show until a gig in 1972 where Jean, Lynda and Cindy performed. Florence really missed a lot of shows if you think about it, she was missing shows as early as 1965. I remember reading an article from late summer of '65 where they said a few shows were cancelled because Florence was sick. And then I recall several shows in late '66 were cancelled because Flo was again sick. I do wonder though what they did that time when Diana had a nervous breakdown and had to be hospitalized. I'm sure those shows were cancelled, I really can't imagine them replacing Diana for a few shows.

[supremester]

LOL.......good one! Truly, I loved her songs on Double Fantasy and all the links I posted are songs I dig a lot........that being said, she is an acquired taste and this clip is one of her styles I never warmed up to.
And to think, the world could have seen this treasure as the next Diana Ross...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9tqHLmPDUk

[antceleb12]

LOL.......good one! Truly, I loved her songs on Double Fantasy and all the links I posted are songs I dig a lot........that being said, she is an acquired taste and this clip is one of her styles I never warmed up to.

Haha to be honest, I did think you were kidding at first, but hey if you like her, good for you! She definitely needs much aquiring, taste wise. For me, personally, it's like listening to a drunk cat wretching...LOL! At least in more recent clips like this. I don't know too much from her earlier stuff.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I am, and have been a Yoko fan since the early Plastic Ono Band records...she is unique,and wonderful.. also trans gender punk pioneer Wayne, who is now Jayne County.. diverse artists are quite interesting.. UK 80's pop star Toyah as well..

[captainjames]

Ohhh? Ok


yoko is fierce and fearless! She makes miss ross at her most divaesque seem like a wallflower.

[bradsupremes]

Whenever I need a good laugh I just listen to anything Yoko Ono recorded. Her albums should be sold in stores under the comedy section.

In all seriousness I don't know how anyone could think she has any musical talent. Fact is had she not married John Lennon no one would know who she is today. People can defend her by saying she's avant-garde, but to me avant-garde is just a talentless genre of people who claim they have talent and the rest of us just don't understand it.

[ejluther]

That's why art is subjective - what is good to some, doesn't have to be good to others. Wouldn't it boring if we all liked the same things? And the very fact that you don't like avant-garde music at all probably means you're not a very good judge of it. The same goes for anyone who doesn't like country or opera or pop or Motown...if someone simply doesn't like any of it, they're in the worst possible position to critique it.

[bradsupremes]

That's why art is subjective - what is good to some, doesn't have to be good to others. Wouldn't it boring if we all liked the same things? And the very fact that you don't like avant-garde music at all probably means you're not a very good judge of it. The same goes for anyone who doesn't like country or opera or pop or Motown...if someone simply doesn't like any of it, they're in the worst possible position to critique it.

The reason why I hate it is because what's its meaning and where's the creativity. Just like that video of Yoko screaming into a microphone. She does it and people think it's art, it has a profound message and can be analyzed. However Jane Doe could walk off the street do the EXACT same thing and those same people call it garbage. What's the difference?

Yoko Ono has no musical talent. Look at comments on the YouTube videos of her and you'll see hundreds of thousands who agree.

[thisoldheart]

yoko ono was a famous performance artist before she met john lennon. she is a creative genius, and her conceptual art should not be compared with pop music. they are two different things. don't be a hater, just because you don't understand something!

[supremester]

If this clip is art, it's beyond me. Tony Soprano, when presented with framed art of The Rat Pack on The Strip, beamed with joy and said, "Usually I don't like modern art" .......... Yoko screaming in a mic makes me laugh, and I didn't buy "Unfinished Symphony" - a recording of her having a miscarriage that was edited and released as a single, but I love some of her 80's stuff. I was digging punk back then and her stuff was fun, but it made some of my friends cringe and, to be fair, I was enjoying 'Ludes when I first heard her stuff. I'd still be enjoying them if that mummy fuck Reagan hadn't ordered their demise...... but I digress. My friends loved Walking On Thin Ice in the bars and were shocked to find out it was Yoko, but liked very little to none of her other work. Listen to this song while not paying too much attention to her vocal quality - it came out shortly after John died. . I like it and wanted Miss Ross to cover it [[and Dogtown.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_o-NA4u5kg


Haha to be honest, I did think you were kidding at first, but hey if you like her, good for you! She definitely needs much aquiring, taste wise. For me, personally, it's like listening to a drunk cat wretching...LOL! At least in more recent clips like this. I don't know too much from her earlier stuff.

[antceleb12]

If this clip is art, it's beyond me. Tony Soprano, when presented with framed art of The Rat Pack on The Strip, beamed with joy and said, "Usually I don't like modern art" .......... Yoko screaming in a mic makes me laugh, and I didn't buy "Unfinished Symphony" - a recording of her having a miscarriage that was edited and released as a single, but I love some of her 80's stuff. I was digging punk back then and her stuff was fun, but it made some of my friends cringe and, to be fair, I was enjoying 'Ludes when I first heard her stuff. I'd still be enjoying them if that mummy fuck Reagan hadn't ordered their demise...... but I digress. My friends loved Walking On Thin Ice in the bars and were shocked to find out it was Yoko, but liked very little to none of her other work. Listen to this song while not paying too much attention to her vocal quality - it came out shortly after John died. . I like it and wanted Miss Ross to cover it [[and Dogtown.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_o-NA4u5kg

Ok, I understand that a lot more than her "avante-garde" stuff. Still, I find her voice very weak and unsettling. The tune is catchy, but unfortunately it reminds me of bad karaoke. But hey, to each his own!

[antceleb12]

yoko ono was a famous performance artist before she met john lennon. she is a creative genius, and her conceptual art should not be compared with pop music. they are two different things. don't be a hater, just because you don't understand something!

I think the issue is, and I agree 100% with bradsupremes on this, is that ANYONE can can do some of this "avante-garde" stuff today. For example, I went to a DC museum for art, and hanging on the wall was an orange canvas tilted slightly to one side, and that was the piece. Again, anyone can do that. It's as if art - as in post-modern and avante-garde art - has become lazy by attempting to, or pretending to, imply a "deeper meaning." In college, I spent a whole year studying and discussing classical music from the 20th century on and you won't beliieeevvee some of the stuff I heard. I mean, some of it gives Yoko Ono a run for her money! I studied it, even wrote a thesis on it, and I still hate most of it. You can still understand it and hate it, but at the same time, if the artist is deliberately trying to create something so abstract that only the "in-the-know" get it, where's the value in that?

Just my two cents. Of course, others see it differently, and I respect that.

[ejluther]

Great points all around - I love discussions like this [[especially when they pop up in the oddest of places - from The Supremes on the Tonight Show in 1967 to Yoko Ono and avant-garde music?!? Love it!). I suppose it's the definition of "music" that's at the heart of this issue - as someone who's enjoyed and appreciated "avant-garde" music I still have to admit that I don't really think of it as "music" as much as "art" - in fact, I'm much more comfortable with calling it "art" than music. As thisoldheart put it:

conceptual art should not be compared with pop music. they are two different things.
I guess I call it "music" because the people who create it often call it that themselves but, at the end of the day, it really is apples and oranges. And I like both apples and oranges...

[smark21]

Listening to those Yoko clips, it's obvious there's a craft to what she does. Breath control and volume and other aspects of the voice are in playing and it's something that has to be developed. She's not trying to sing pretty or provide escapist entertainment. I really like how she does a "Yoko Ono" version of the US National Anthem...taking a jingoistic song that celebrates war and just does the melody with her trademark screams and orgasmic moans. She takes on that song with the full arsenal of her vocal style. It's not meant to be a mindless celebration of US militarism and patriotism.

[supremester]

In the high school, most of my friends banned me from bringing my records to parties. I took extra heat for Gladys Knight & The Pips and Marvin Gaye because of their names, while Canned Heat, Led Zepplin, Creedence, Zappa and Jimi played on. Marvin became acceptable only after What's Going On. One bud liked The Funk Bros on side 1 of Cloud Nine lp. So, I'm used to having musical interests that differ with my homies. I was more open to Yoko, I believe, as I was buds with Greg Sage since the early 70's and his band, The Wipers, were pioneers in Punk - I was digging it before it was even called Punk, I think. Hearing Yoko's spin on the influence of The Ramones, Sex Pistols, Dead Kennedys [[two of whom were very hot) wasn't so weird to me. I instantly loved all of her Double Fantasy tracks and still enjoy most of her 80's work and writings. Of course, she picked up some fans because John loved her so, and she was all we Lennonites had when he passed [[holding a rough mix of Walking On Thin Ice.) I knew how they all felt as I used to get sick listening to Country but tried to be respectable.




Haha to be honest, I did think you were kidding at first, but hey if you like her, good for you! She definitely needs much aquiring, taste wise. For me, personally, it's like listening to a drunk cat wretching...LOL! At least in more recent clips like this. I don't know too much from her earlier stuff.

[stephanie]

I must come out of the closet here. I am no Yoko Ono fan by any stretch of the imagination but her cuts on the Double Fantasy album for some odd reason appealed to me. I agree Supremester. I never thought I would admit to this.

[supremester]

Don't humiliate yourself - we'll just keep it between you and me ; )