Question regarding singer on alternate mix of Do You Love Me

[imnokid]

Hi
A friend has the following LP.
It's called 'Do You Love Me [[Now That I Can Dance)'
It is NOT the original album from '62. It's not a reissue either, since while it has the same cover art, it has 7 of 10 different tunes.
Released in 1981. Motown label [[not Gordy).

He says there is a different singer singing lead, but you can hear the ghost vocal of Billy in the background. Anyone know who is singing lead and what the story is on this?

[kenneth]

That's the '81 reissue, which was quite an anomaly in that it did vary from the original album content unlike I think all the other reissues in the batch. I have it, and bought at it at the time, but I don't recall ever thinking it was a different singer. It might have been a Stereo mix which might have caused your friend to think that.

[RossHolloway]

The 81 reissue was more a collection of the groups greatest hits. And it seems that there may be a mono-stereo mix of the song, I also remember two different versions/takes of the song.

[keith_hughes]

They saved two different takes from the DYLM session, and it seems that they used one for the mono mix and the other for the stereo. I've just listened to the stereo version on MS614 "A Package of 16 Original Big Hits", and although there are numerous differences in the phrasing and intonation, I would say that both versions have Billy Gordon on lead, and I can't hear any ghost vocal on the track.

I don't have the 1981 LP. If you feel like sending an MP3 of the track to keith@dftmc.info, I would be very interested to hear it!

[carole cucumber]

Hi Keith, From your response, you seem to have listened to the vinyl stereo version of 'A Package of 16 Original Big Hits". Do you have the CD version MOTD-5448? If you listen to track #7 there, you can likely experience what Imnokid's friend is hearing.In the spoken intro [[at 0:12-0:15) there is the ghost [[bleeding of voice from previous take? Berry Gordy/another group member feeding Billy the line?) that is heard. There is also echo added to Billy's voice at various times [[1:02-05, 1:11-15) so that it sounds as if Billy is singing with himself. At times there are audible voices not heard in the mono mix Listen with headphones and you can experience it at 0:40-44, 0:55-56, , 1:29-:33, 1:43-45, 1:55-2:06, 2:33, 2:43.If I didn't know any better, I'd swear that Berry Gordy was there in the studio coaching the group on the take that was used for the stereo version.But then again, I'm one who'd swear that the voice that I hear singing lead on "I Don't Want Your Promises" from Motown Unreleased 1963 belongs to Patrice Holloway and not Labrenda Ben as listed.

[keith_hughes]

Hi Carole.

I'm listening to a CD-R transfer of the vinyl that someone kindly made for me. I don't have MOTD-5448, but I can imagine the sound is much clearer on there. Yes, I can hear the ghost voice in the intro exactly where you place it, but not in the other places. It's possible that Billy was listening to a demo [[maybe Berry's) as he recorded it, and there's some bleeding going on. At least we agree it's Billy singing! I'm sorry I can't agree with you about Patrice ... it would have to be some weird story, to place her in Detroit in May 1963. I think she and Brenda were signed at the same time, and their first recordings [[made in LA) did not reach Detroit until October of that year.

Many thanks
Keith

[bradburger]

I've just listened to the stereo backing track of DYLM from the Singing Machine Karaoke disc [[This I assume is the mulititrack used for the 16 Big Hits mix), and there is bleed in the right channel from the vocal take that was used on the 45 mix.

It's more noticeable towards the end, where some of the words are different.

And I would agree with those who say both lead vocals are those of Billy Gordon.

Cheers

Paul

[RossHolloway]

Hi Carole.

I'm listening to a CD-R transfer of the vinyl that someone kindly made for me. I don't have MOTD-5448, but I can imagine the sound is much clearer on there. Yes, I can hear the ghost voice in the intro exactly where you place it, but not in the other places. It's possible that Billy was listening to a demo [[maybe Berry's) as he recorded it, and there's some bleeding going on. At least we agree it's Billy singing! I'm sorry I can't agree with you about Patrice ... it would have to be some weird story, to place her in Detroit in May 1963. I think she and Brenda were signed at the same time, and their first recordings [[made in LA) did not reach Detroit until October of that year.

Many thanks
Keith I believe in one of the recent releases someone is quoted as saying that Patrice Holloway never recorded in Detroit - for Motown.

[carole cucumber]

Brenda Holloway said that in the "Love & Desire The Patrice Holloway Anthology" booklet. But we do know that some tracks to which Brenda & Patrice/Patrice/Brenda added their lead vocals were done in Detroit and sent to L.A.
But from what has been discovered over the years concerning Motown [[even with its usually excellent record keeping) there have been some mysteries and even errors.
[[And Motown L.A. 's record keeping is often spotty at best).
I'm curious if the recording of "I Don't Want Your Promises" included in Motown Unreleased 1963 is the only recording of the song.
The thing that puzzles me about IDWYP is that the female singer's voice has a Stevie Wonder-like quality to it absent from every other Labrenda Ben recording I've heard.
Ah! Sweet mystery of life!

[RossHolloway]

So what exactly are you suggesting? That the track is actually Stevie Wonder or that Patrice and LaBrenda Ben sound similar or maybe they're one and the same person?

[carole cucumber]

Rossholloway, Nothing like that at all. It's a female voice; Patrice and Labrenda are 2 different singers, neither who sounds much like the other.

[keith_hughes]

No-one else recorded IDWYP, Carole. The song was written and produced by George Fowler, who brought LaBrenda to Motown then, I've been told, took her away with him when he left. The last I heard [[about 3 years ago, from someone who met her at a Motown Alumni gathering) is that she is still alive and well and singing, but that - like other stars from the era, for example Earl-Jean of the Cookies - these days she sings only for the Lord.

[carole cucumber]

Thanks, Keith. Then that settles it for me about this recording. I'm more than satisfied. I just find it interesting that on IDWYP Labrenda's voice sounds so unique when compared to her other performances. It could have resulted because of several factors, the song's key signature, location of recording or mixing technique application [[echo chamber-effect), George Fowler instructing her to sing it in a certain manner, etc. I'm confused about the information you were given about Labrenda departure because of http://soulfuldetroit.com/archive/index.php/t-9822.html

[keith_hughes]

Although Robb_K says there that he has some records from 1965/6 with Fowler's name on them, I can't find any productions by him in theMotown paperwork after the Contours' "I Can't Stop Dancing", in November 1964 ... until 1967, when he returned to produce four tracks for the Loucye Wakefield Memorial Album. Maybe he agreed to do that because he had known Loucye - and of course it was all sacred music, which was what he into anyway, and which Motown had stopped doing back in 1963, until this release.

My source for his leaving and taking LaBrenda with him in 1964 was the person who told me about meeting her at the MAA gathering. So it's anecdotal, but from someone who knew her, and the situation, well. There was a suggestion that the parting was not amicable, but if so evidently the wounds had healed by 1967.

[144man]

Does anyone know if "LaBrenda" was her real name or whether "Ben" was her maiden or married name?