Billboard: "Top 10 Girl Groups of all time."

[David J]

Billboard: "Top 10 Girl Groups of all time."

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/5901266/top-10-girl-groups-of-all-time

[David J]

Posted on Diana-web.com

I saw this article earlier and was considering posting it here, but I'm glad you did, Benjamin from Denver. It think it is a very important fact that needs to be shared with this current generation, at a time when record companies and PR spins are fudging numbers and stats to make their artist seem as though they are the greatest artist of all time. Billboard has been guilty as of lately in acting more like a PR agent for certain artist and labels, then actually reporting credible facts, proper music history and information. I'm so glad that they finally told the truth as far as the Supremes being the most successful Girl group by a long shot, of all time, based not just on opinion, but on the Billboard Charts.

This year the group TLC appeared on a daytime TV show and proudly reminded everyone that THEY are the most successful Girl group of all time. The Spice Girls have also claimed that title, as well as Destiny Child and who will know better unless journalists and publications like Billboard challenge the other groups' claims, but they normally wont and will continue to feed the public a false PR spin on the truth, because it makes headlines.

This is why one of the handful of request that I ask of Diana, is to hire a full-time publicist to protect her legacy. Billboard constantly talks about how newer female artist hold the top spots of the most top 10s or number 1's, but they never mention that Diana Ross as both lead singer of the Supremes, as well as Solo, is like the #2 all time most successful artist. They also never mention or take into consideration that the charts and how they are calculated today is much different than the traditional charts before digital downloads. It's not only about $0.99 downloads from one's home or cell phone, vs in Diana's era one had to go out one's house, walk, drive or take public transportation to the nearest record store and pay about $3-$5 for a cassette or CD single, not a $0.99 download. They also calculate [[which is a joke), Youtube streaming towards chart position. It's easier to chart and the charts and digital downloads can be manipulated, which is the whisper in the industry now.

I say all of that to say, that journalism and news publications/outlets aren't about educating or informing the public any longer, they're about entertainment and getting websites hits. An artist like Diana Ross needs someone out there keeping her stats and facts straight as it pertains to music history and her legacy. Mariah Carey got hip to this fact and did an excellent video reminding everyone of her success, because so many other artist today, are making claims that they are more successful and iconic than the great veterans of the business that came before them.

Below, check out the Mariah Carey's new promo video, highlighting her success and reminding people of the truth. Also, a link to the Billboard article about the Supremes being the most successful group ever.

Also, a link to another billboard article released this week, naming Diana's "Endless Love," as the most successful love song.

Now, as I stated earlier, Billboard seems to do a lot of press and write ups of certain artist as though there is some kind of arrangement or hidden agenda to promote them. With two articles listing Diana as #1 in a week, I have a gut feeling that there is something going on behind the scenes. Maybe she has a PR firm pushing her name out there for something to come. Just a gut feeling.

Billboard: "Top 50 Love Songs of all time"

http://www.billboard.com/articles/list/1538839/top-50-love-songs-of-all-time


Billboard: "Top 10 Girl Groups of all time."

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/5901266/top-10-girl-groups-of-all-time

[motony]

the real Top Ten Girl Groups of all time 1)Martha & the Vandellas 2)The Marvelettes 3)Ronettes 4)Crystals 5)Supremes 6)Shirelles 7)Honey Cone 8)Shangri-Las 9)Emotions 10)Pointer Sisters. Based on importance to the history of Rock N Roll.

[marybrewster]

Good list; a few surprises with the inclusion of the Marvelettes and Martha and the Vandellas.

If we're basing it off the Billboard Charts, where are the Shirelles? 26 Top 100 hits, 6 of them being Top 10, 2 of them being #1. The Marvelettes, in contrast, had 23 Top 100 hits, 3 of them being Top 10, 1 of them being #1. The Vandellas had 22 Top 100 hits, 6 of them being Top 10, NONE of them being #1.

Something doesn't add up.

[jobeterob]

The Shirelles were a bit of a miss on this list.

Overall, it's a good list.

If ever the Supremes rank further down a list, it is often prepared by some "youngster". Also, because of Diana Ross's significant solo career, it sometimes pulls something away from Diana Ross and the Supremes.

[Ngroove]

Good list; a few surprises with the inclusion of the Marvelettes and Martha and the Vandellas.

If we're basing it off the Billboard Charts, where are the Shirelles? 26 Top 100 hits, 6 of them being Top 10, 2 of them being #1. The Marvelettes, in contrast, had 23 Top 100 hits, 3 of them being Top 10, 1 of them being #1. The Vandellas had 22 Top 100 hits, 6 of them being Top 10, NONE of them being #1.

Something doesn't add up.

Sorry, but at the end of the day, Motown and its overall influence, still pretty relevant messages, and quality "Motown Sound", kind of places a higher longer-lasting memorability premium, over others that are just "girl groups". Nothing wrong with them, as I do love me some Chantels, Chiftons, Shirelles, Dixie Cups, Crystals, and Ronettes, purely charming in every way, but along with sometimes sounding "heard one, heard them all", they are kinda datedly pegged "of their time", not "all-time". That said, to be fair against the "contemporary" groups, I could say the same thing against SWV and TLC, and Jade too had they been on list, "SOOOOOO NINETIES!".

[milven]

I'm glad to see the Supremes top the list. Most of the lists have them overshadowed by more contemporary girl groups. But if the list is really the top female groups of all time, then they did not go back far enough because they did not include the Andrews Sisters, who were for the forties, what the Supremes were for the sixties.

They have some outstanding statistics which warrant them being placed somewhere on a list of Top Ten Female Groups of All Time

The Andrews Sisters became the most popular female vocal group of the first half of the 20th century
75-100 million records sold from a little over 600 recorded tunes
113 charted Billboard hits, 46 reaching Top 10 status [[more than Elvis Presley or The Beatles)
17 Hollywood films [[more than any other singing group in motion picture history)
[28] record-breaking theater and cabaret runs all across America and Europe;
countless appearances on radio shows from 1935 to 1960 [[including their own)
guest spots on every major television show of the 1950s and 1960s, including those hosted by Ed Sullivan, Milton Berle, Perry Como, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Jr., Johnny Carson, Joey Bishop, Art Linkletter and Jimmy Dean.

[luke]

The Shirelles truly opened doors for girl groups[[no slight to the fantastic Chantels) and Patti and the Bluebelles were the Sweethearts. The Supremes the culmination and the apex.

[marybrewster]

Sorry, but at the end of the day, Motown and its overall influence, still pretty relevant messages, and quality "Motown Sound", kind of places a higher longer-lasting memorability premium, over others that are just "girl groups". Nothing wrong with them, as I do love me some Chantels, Chiftons, Shirelles, Dixie Cups, Crystals, and Ronettes, purely charming in every way, but along with sometimes sounding "heard one, heard them all", they are kinda datedly pegged "of their time", not "all-time". That said, to be fair against the "contemporary" groups, I could say the same thing against SWV and TLC, and Jade too had they been on list, "SOOOOOO NINETIES!".

That's true, and I agree. But that's not what this list is. The author states:

The top 10 all-time girl groups list is based on actual performance on the weekly Billboard Hot 100. Artists are ranked based on an inverse point system, with weeks at No. 1 earning the greatest value and weeks at No. 100 earning the least. Due to changes in chart methodology over time, certain eras are weighted differently to account for chart turnover rates over various periods.

With that said, The Shirelles, based on their chart performace versus the Marvelettes or the Vandellas, should have been included. And with the information that milven provided, the Andrews Sisters should have been included as well.

Again, it's a nice list and I am pleased that the Marvelettes and the Vandellas were included. But someone didn't do their homework.

[jobeterob]

Most of Billboards list deal with the Rock Era, starting in 1955 which probably eliminated the Andrews Sisters.

For a lot of these lists, it really isn't possible to compare various eras anymore. The 90's saw the decline of the single and it saw songs stay on the charts for a year and a half whereas in the 60's you saw a single last 10 or 12 weeks if it was lucky. And it might have sold more. We Are The World didn't have the most spectacular or lengthy chart run but sold 4 million copies and was #1. And the 2000's saw the collapse of sales and the rise of free or stolen downloads.

In the era of the Andrews Sisters, sales could not touch the sales of the 1990's.

[marv2]

This here is all you need to answer the question of what is the greatest girl group, female music act of all time. Straight outta DETROIT!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr0fW_sEgms

[smark21]

Were they measuring both the singles and album charts, or just the singles chart for this list?

[captainjames]

This was a good list

[midnightman]

Were they measuring both the singles and album charts, or just the singles chart for this list?

I believe most successful overall. A combination perhaps...

[midnightman]

The Shirelles truly opened doors for girl groups[[no slight to the fantastic Chantels) and Patti and the Bluebelles were the Sweethearts. The Supremes the culmination and the apex.

The Shirelles were the first black female group to hit number-one on the Billboard main singles chart as well as the first female group and first black group of the Hot 100 era to make it to number one. I don't see how they were a period group. Their legacy has become as mismanaged as Diana Ross'/The Supremes.

I also think Patti/Bluebelles/Labelle should've been in this too, just for them standing the test of time for nearly 20 years going from doo wop to soul to funk. But I guess since they were hardly a charted act in comparison to the other groups on the list, I see why they were excluded [[which is a shame).

The Supremes' position in history is set in stone. Loved that the Marvelettes and the Vandellas are on the list, especially the Marvelettes seeing as how they're often left out of these things unfavorably.

[smark21]

The Shirelles were the first black female group to hit number-one on the Billboard main singles chart as well as the first female group and first black group of the Hot 100 era to make it to number one. I don't see how they were a period group. Their legacy has become as mismanaged as Diana Ross'/The Supremes.

I also think Patti/Bluebelles/Labelle should've been in this too, just for them standing the test of time for nearly 20 years going from doo wop to soul to funk. But I guess since they were hardly a charted act in comparison to the other groups on the list, I see why they were excluded [[which is a shame).

The Supremes' position in history is set in stone. Loved that the Marvelettes and the Vandellas are on the list, especially the Marvelettes seeing as how they're often left out of these things unfavorably.

Billboard is about tracking sales and tabulating chart position, not assessing artistic quality. This list is compiled based on a statistical analysis of sales and chart performance. You can't design or perform a statistical analysis plan on artistry...Thank God!

[midnightman]

Billboard is about tracking sales and tabulating chart position, not assessing artistic quality. This list is compiled based on a statistical analysis of sales and chart performance. You can't design or perform a statistical analysis plan on artistry...Thank God!

I understand that but I thought the Shirelles were one of the most successful?

[jobeterob]

Note: The top 10 all-time girl groups list is based on actual performance on the weekly Billboard Hot 100. Artists are ranked based on an inverse point system, with weeks at No. 1 earning the greatest value and weeks at No. 100 earning the least. Due to changes in chart methodology over time, certain eras are weighted differently to account for chart turnover rates over various periods.

[Jimi LaLumia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shirelles
The Shirelles had two #1 Pop hits, one more than The Marvelettes..just putting things in Pop Chart perspective..on the other hand, the Vandellas had no #1 Pop chart hits...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_and_the_Vandellas_discography

[marv2]

The Supremes were the most successful female group in the 70's with 8 Top 40 hits, more than any other group. Combine that with the success they enjoyed in the 60's and you have the number one placing that they deserve. It is no more complicated or involving "science or mathematical" equations than that! LOL!

[midnightman]

I don't think anyone was arguing about the Supremes' position...

[jobeterob]

The Supremes were the most successful female group in the 70's with 8 Top 40 hits, more than any other group. Combine that with the success they enjoyed in the 60's and you have the number one placing that they deserve. It is no more complicated or involving "science or mathematical" equations than that! LOL!

Marv, what is your considered opinion of their reference to the group as "Diana Ross & co"? I wonder if they were referring to the Andantes.

[roger]

I have an early edition of Joel Whitburn's "Top Pop Singles" book [[1955-1990), based upon the Billboard Hot 100. This obviously pre-dates the 1990s crop of "Girl Groups" [[TLC, EN-VOGUE, SPICE GIRLS etc.)

Interestingly, for the groups under discussion here, they are ranked in the "all time acts" section as follows ..

At #15 ... THE SUPREMES .. with 3106 points based upon chart history.
#75 ... THE POINTER SISTERS .. with 1657 points.
#119 ... THE SHIRELLES ... with 1278 points.
#157 ... MARTHA & THE VANDELLAS ... with 1145 points.
#164 ... THE MARVELETTES ... with 1120 points.

So based upon that it is difficult to see how THE SHIRELLES weren't included in the "Top 10 Girl Groups" list.

I also have Mr Whitburn's book for "Top Pop Albums" [[1955-1992) and for the groups under discussion here it has the following ...

#21 in the "All time acts" listing ... THE SUPREMES
#183 ... THE POINTER SISTERS

THE SHIRELLES, MARTHA & THE VANDELLAS and THE MARVELETTES aren't ranked in the "Top 500" artists as none of them had many big selling LPs. Their chart histories are as follows ...

THE SHIRELLES [[3 LPs in the Billboard Pop listings)
1 - "Baby Its You", entered 5th May 1962, 13 weeks on the chart, peaked at #59.
2 - "Greatest Hits", entered 26th January 1963, 49 weeks on the chart, peaked at #19.
3 - "Foolish little Girl", entered 29th June 1963, 9 weeks on the chart, peaked at #68.

MARTHA & THE VANDELLAS [[7 LPs in the Billboard Pop listings)
1 - "Heat Wave", 23rd November 1963, 5 weeks, #125.
2 - "Dance party", 29th May 1965, 3 weeks, #139.
3 - "Greatest Hits", 11th June 1966, 15 weeks, #50.
4 - "Watchout!!", 21st January 1976, 8 weeks, #116.
5 - "Live!", 7th October 1967, 5 weeks, #140.
6 - "Ridin' High", 1st June 1968, 8 weeks, #167.
7 - "Black Magic", 1st April 1972, 7 weeks, #146.

THE MARVELETTES [[2 LPs in the Billboard Pop listings)
1 - "Greatest Hits", 19th March 1966, 16 weeks, #84.
2 : "The Marvelettes"[[The Pink album), 8th April 1967, 8 weeks, #129.

So here THE VANDELLAS come out clearly on top with THE SHIRELLES outperforming THE MARVELETTES.

So, for THE SHIRELLES to have missed out on being in this Top 10, presumably pushing out THE SPICE GIRLS, one of the following would have to be the case ...

1 - Pre 1964 positions are ranked lower than post 1964 positions.
2 - Since the early 1990s there have been other chart entries by THE MARVELETTES which have pushed THE SHIRELLES down the rankings.
3 - The person who compiled this list didn't realise that THE SHIRELLES were a "Girl Group" [[possibly he thought they were the backing group for TOMMY JAMES :))
4 - Some totally different criteria were used ....
or .....
5 - The compiler [[Jason Lipshutz) is a SPICE GIRLS fanatic who couldn't bear his favourites being pushed out of the list.

I guess that Jason's lips are shut on this matter .... :)

Roger

[skooldem1]

They revised their point system.

[REDHOT]

Billboard got it right,The Supremes is the number 1 female group,of all time.

[Ngroove]

So, for THE SHIRELLES to have missed out on being in this Top 10, presumably pushing out THE SPICE GIRLS, one of the following would have to be the case ...

1 - Pre 1964 positions are ranked lower than post 1964 positions.
2 - Since the early 1990s there have been other chart entries by THE MARVELETTES which have pushed THE SHIRELLES down the rankings.
3 - The person who compiled this list didn't realise that THE SHIRELLES were a "Girl Group" [[possibly he thought they were the backing group for TOMMY JAMES :))
4 - Some totally different criteria were used ....
or .....
5 - The compiler [[Jason Lipshutz) is a SPICE GIRLS fanatic who couldn't bear his favourites being pushed out of the list.

I guess that Jason's lips are shut on this matter .... :)

Roger And, what exactly are the Spice Girls doing on that list? They only had, what, four "hit" songs, across two albums, and one soundtrack, capitalizing on their FAD, that lasted and burnt out faster than Backstreet Boys' and N'Sync's?

[jobeterob]

And, what exactly are the Spice Girls doing on that list? They only had, what, four "hit" songs, across two albums, and one soundtrack, capitalizing on their FAD, that lasted and burnt out faster than Backstreet Boys' and N'Sync's?

They don't seem to belong. But didn't they have some monster albums like TLC did? Very few hits but big ones?

[marv2]

Marv, what is your considered opinion of their reference to the group as "Diana Ross & co"? I wonder if they were referring to the Andantes.

I don't even waste time on shit like that. The was never a group called Diana Ross & Co. There was never a real group called Diana Ross & the Supremes after Jan. 14 1970 and the Supremes ended in June of 1977 and have never regrouped. When there was "Mary Wilson & the Supremes" out on the touring circuit, I had no problem with that title because there never was a group with that exact name before early 80's so I could never accuse her of using the name of a group that had formally disbanded.

[marv2]

And, what exactly are the Spice Girls doing on that list? They only had, what, four "hit" songs, across two albums, and one soundtrack, capitalizing on their FAD, that lasted and burnt out faster than Backstreet Boys' and N'Sync's?

I only know of one song by the Spice Girls. You know the one that goes something like" now tell what you want, what you really, really want etc,etc....." LOL!

[Ngroove]

They don't seem to belong. But didn't they have some monster albums like TLC did? Very few hits but big ones?

Nahhh, just "monster album". Just about everything need [[or don't need) to listen of them, including "Wannabe" mentioned from Marv2 above, is on "Spice". That's about it.

[roger]

It looks like THE SPICE GIRLS had one U.S. #1 and three Top 10 entries .. if we can believe the Wikipedia page on this ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_Girls_discography

I know that here in Merry Olde England they were huge for a year or two but the only tune I can remember by them is that "Wannabee" thing [[which I never "got"). A couple of their other tunes I know I preferred [[which would not be difficult) but I can't recall how they went ... :)

Roger

[arr&bee]

Haaaaaaaaaaa,this is why i have my own top ten...the chantels..the shirelles..the marvelettes..martha and the vandellas..patti labelle and the blubelles..the emotions..the supremes..the honeycone..the pointer sisters..destiny's child.

[Ngroove]

Haaaaaaaaaaa,this is why i have my own top ten...the chantels..the shirelles..the marvelettes..martha and the vandellas..patti labelle and the blubelles..the emotions..the supremes..the honeycone..the pointer sisters..destiny's child. I'd go with: 1) Supremes, 2) Martha Reeves & the Vandellas, 3) Marvelettes, 4) Pointer Sisters, 5) the Emotions, 6) Sister Sledge, 7) Three Degrees, 8) Zhane, 9) 702, 10) Brownstone

[markdtiller]

One girl group not mentioned in any of this: according to the Guinness Book of Records BANANARAMA hold the title of the all-female group the most chart entries in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bananarama

[smark21]

It's nice to see Expose at #5. The group is happy as well and have noted it on their Facebook page.

[supremester]

There WAS a real group of Diana Ross & The Supremes after Jan 14, 1970. Diana, Lynda and Scherrie were officially, Motown sanctioned, legally approved grouping in 2000. Mary Wilson & The Supremes never existed any more than Deputy Dawg & the Supremes or Marv2 & The Supremes did. Mary can't just pull any two wannabes off the street and call them Supremes - that's why Motown kicked her ass to the curb and put a stop to the desecration of the brand. She should have taken them up on their offer with Scherrie & Jean or whoever it was - that would have great for all concerned - including the fans!


I don't even waste time on shit like that. The was never a group called Diana Ross & Co. There was never a real group called Diana Ross & the Supremes after Jan. 14 1970 and the Supremes ended in June of 1977 and have never regrouped. When there was "Mary Wilson & the Supremes" out on the touring circuit, I had no problem with that title because there never was a group with that exact name before early 80's so I could never accuse her of using the name of a group that had formally disbanded.

[marv2]

There WAS a real group of Diana Ross & The Supremes after Jan 14, 1970. Diana, Lynda and Scherrie were officially, Motown sanctioned, legally approved grouping in 2000. Mary Wilson & The Supremes never existed any more than Deputy Dawg & the Supremes or Marv2 & The Supremes did. Mary can't just pull any two wannabes off the street and call them Supremes - that's why Motown kicked her ass to the curb and put a stop to the desecration of the brand. She should have taken them up on their offer with Scherrie & Jean or whoever it was - that would have great for all concerned - including the fans!

For clarification "Motown" did not sanction them. Diane just licensed the name "The Supremes" from Universal for her bogus tour. We, the public cancelled them! Also for the record Berry Gordy was against them! There never was or will be a group called "The Supremes" without Mary Wilson. Mary could and did hire some lovelies to back her up on her early solo tours and she got PAID! People loved them, her act....... ! "Motown" couldn't kick shit because she was no longer part of that company after 1980. Spin it anyway that makes you happy, it will still come up sour grapes and lies......and the beat goes on!

[supremester]

LOL. TY. You don't ever disappoint. I'll follow you on Youtube!

[marv2]

LOL. TY. You don't ever disappoint. I'll follow you on Youtube!

....and you can blather and argue all you want! Won't change a damned thing! Mary is preparing to knock 'em out in Istanbul, Turkey before she re-conquers London and Belfast! It is great day here! LOL!

[supremester]

I'm not arguing, handsome. It IS a great day for you and Mary......enjoy! LOL! I'm not arguing, but the licensing thing........that's sanctioned. Nothing but. DLS was the last official grouping...... But will Mary sing Istanbul [[Not Constantinople)like Bette Midler did?


....and you can blather and argue all you want! Won't change a damned thing! Mary is preparing to knock 'em out in Istanbul, Turkey before she re-conquers London and Belfast! It is great day here! LOL!

[jobeterob]

There never was or will be a group called "The Supremes" without Mary Wilson [[Marv's quote)!

Well, sadly, the truth is there is and there was.

One is Karen Ragland's Supremes. Another is Shantel Bakers. And then there are some more legitimate tribute groups that sound more like the Supremes original sound than Mary Wilson. And there are the FLOS.

Mary's claim to fame is much like Martha Reeves; they were part of the real deal and that is why real fans want to see them. It is not because they sound much like the original ~ but because they "are" the original.

And you Marv, are a sorry, obsolete, quite miserable anachronism.

I still wonder why, generally speaking, at least on Soulful Detroit, you've MOSTLY toned down and shut up; I imagine you were told to by someone in authority to do so. Which is good.

You only swear once in a while when the "bait bus" drives by.