The Four Tops - ""I'll Turn to Stone" or "7 Rooms of Gloom"?

[marv2]

"I'll Turn to Stone" by the Four Tops has been one of my favorite Motown songs for years and for years I've wonder why it was not released as the A -side vs "7 Rooms of Gloom". It had a catchy beat and some of the cleverest lyrics I've heard. Which of these songs did you prefer?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_dsZ8Sk5rg

[westgrandboulevard]

I'll Turn To Stone. Definitely.

7 Rooms Of Gloom has too much 'top' and is too light on the bass and drums for me.

And it's much easier to dance to I'll Turn To Stone. 7 Rooms is just plain frantic......

[marv2]

I'll Turn To Stone. Definitely.

7 Rooms Of Gloom has too much 'top' and is too light on the bass and drums for me.

And it's much easier to dance to I'll Turn To Stone. 7 Rooms is just plain frantic......

Very good points. I'd add that as a kid when these songs were first released, "I'll Turn to Stone" was just much easier to sing or hum along to. Excellent example of the "Motown Sound" in my opinion.

[thomas96]

I liked 7 Rooms of Gloom much better but I agree and think in terms of sales I'll Turn To Stone should've been the a-side. It was much more "poppy."

[Methuselah2]

7-ROOMS was clearly meant as an A-side: the sound, the production, the complexity. It's a lot of record, not easy to dance to but great to listen to. It starts at a high point and maintains it throughout. Powerful.

But I love STONE, too. Smooth and melodic and gets ya dancin'. Very much in HDH's I GUESS I'LL ALWAYS LOVE YOU mode. I'm very fond of it and listen to it often. But I don't know about it being A-side material. And since R. Dean Taylor is included in the writing credits, I don't think releasing it as an A-side would have ever been considered.

[supremester]

I agree with the & Rooms A-side decision. You can't follow Reach Out and Bernadette with HDH run-of-the-mill I'll turn to Stone. Here I will risk the wrath but: I don't think it suits Levi's voice. I'd have given i to The Supremes, Martha, Kim, Tammi, Marvin or, no that I think of it, Wanda. I love Levi, but not on this.

7 Rooms Of Gloom is a dynamic record that screamed A-side to me.

[mowest]

I like both songs. "I'll Turn To Stone" could have been a hit in its own right. Just take a look at its charts action as a B-side:

http://www.las-solanas.com/arsa/charts_item.php?hsid=5104&lidx=23&lcnt=24&lttl=42&srt1=chartweek

[copley]

'7 Rooms of Gloom' is far superior to 'I'll Turn To Stone' but less commercial.

[marv2]

I like both songs. "I'll Turn To Stone" could have been a hit in its own right. Just take a look at its charts action as a B-side:

http://www.las-solanas.com/arsa/charts_item.php?hsid=5104&lidx=23&lcnt=24<tl=42&srt1=chartweek

Excellent information MoWest.
I was going to say that "I'll Turn to Stone" was a hit in various local markets. I see from these charts it reached #10 in Montreal. I know it was played regularly on the radio in the Detroit area at the time. The Four Tops included it in their concerts for years and years.

[marv2]

'7 Rooms of Gloom' is far superior to 'I'll Turn To Stone' but less commercial.

"7 Rooms of Gloom" is a far more complex song with it's unique arrangement. "I'll Turn to Stone" had that bounce to it [[more melodic....) that as a kid I liked more.

[thomas96]

"7 Rooms of Gloom" is a far more complex song with it's unique arrangement. "I'll Turn to Stone" had that bounce to it [[more melodic....) that as a kid I liked more.

I agree. 7 Rooms is just fantastic. I can guarantee they put a lot more work into it than I'll Turn to Stone. Both are great though. In response to supremester, I actually think it fit Levi's voice really well, with his pleading "Without your love I'll be lost and alone, No reason for living all purpose would be gone." Just beautiful.

[Jimi LaLumia]

and if "Stone" had been an A side, it wouldn't have been as easy for "Build Me Up Buttercup" to just slip by...

[daviddesper]

I definitely preferred Turn to Stone at the time and still do. An even better Tops' B-side was their version of "I Got A Feeling." That is one of my all-time favorite Motown songs by anyone.

[thisoldheart]

"7 rooms of gloom" is one of my all time favorite tops hits. being as gordy knew that h/d/h were going on a work slow-down, he never should have released "7" with such a strong b side. "i'll turn to stone" should have been kept aside for as its own single.

[arr&bee]

Good question,both are killers i don't know if i could actually chose one over the other.

[Motown4Ever518]

I cannot choose one over the other. In hindsight we now know that one should have been released, and the other held back for a year or two. On a million selling song, the flip side earned as much as the plug side. So it could have been 3 Blind Mice on the flip side, earning the writer, or in this case writers of the flip side a nice chunk of change and not impacted a bigger hit for the plug side and having another hit in the bank.

[supremester]

I just played it again and haven't changed my mind. I love the track, but not the vocal. I think it would have been the same result as Shake me, Wake me -barely top 20........ melodically it doesn't quite jive with Levi - to me. He's brilliant and a god, but, not on everything to me.

b
I agree. 7 Rooms is just fantastic. I can guarantee they put a lot more work into it than I'll Turn to Stone. Both are great though. In response to supremester, I actually think it fit Levi's voice really well, with his pleading "Without your love I'll be lost and alone, No reason for living all purpose would be gone." Just beautiful.

[marv2]

I guess the popularity of some songs [[and in this case "I'll Turn to Stone") had some thing to do with the region of the country you were living in. In the North Central/Great Lakes/Southern Canada, I'll Turn to Stone" was played like it was the A-side. It just sounds like Detroit to me, hehehehehehe....... Everything about it. The line in the song....."I'd be like a statue in a park, cold and alone......a man with no heart" still just knocks me the hell out after all these years! HDH were some badddd boys!!! The Tops and the Funk Brothers with the HDH combination was absolutely incredible thinking back.

[stephanie]

7 Rooms of Gloom is in my top five of Four Tops songs and its one of the best vocals Levi gave to Motown. What shocks me about Turn to Stone is although I like 7 Rooms better when I saw the chart position for the US I was flabbergasted. I didnt know this was a B side to 7 Rooms I thought it had been released on its own it is a good record they played it a LOT on the radio and sang it in their shows. Never saw them do 7 Rooms on TV. The Supremes did a really good version of this song I think they should have had a 45 on this.

The Supremes did good remakes of the Tops hits.

[supremester]

I love The Supremes shake Me, Wake Me and Baby I Need Your loving - I even prefer them. Not so much I Can't help myself and I almost like this.......I think had they given it some time, lowered it a step and a better track, it would have been single quality. Ross is putting her all into a throw-away track that they probably spent 10 minutes on. It sounds to me like this track was prepped for Martha or Wanda. Motown often covered several acts on a single track -then billed them all for I. I wonder how many got billed for this one?

[Roger Polhill]

The worst case of a wasted "B" side is "I Got A Feeling" with "Bernadette as the "A". I love both sides and I`m sure that "I Got A Feeling' would have been a better seller than "Walk Away Renee" or "If I Were A Carpenter".

[tmd]

They often mention the Four Top trilogy as being Standing In The Shadow's of Love, Bernadette and Reach Out.
I truly believe it is a quartet- and that fourth song is 7- Rooms of Gloom. It is one of the best that HDH produced and James Jameson's bass is outstanding- just like it is with the other 3- songs. Levi is great and the haunting back up singing is amazing. This song sounds better and better every time I hear it.

[supremester]

Mary Wilson has said that 7 Rooms is her fave HDH song - and she's a gal with credentials!

The thing about selecting a single release is not so much if YOU like it, but will the intended audience give up a sandwich for it. I don't care for Reflections, but, I'd have put it out. IMHO, I'll turn To Stone would have been a huge step backward after the Trilogy - much like In & Out Of Love was or I Got A Feeling would have. 1967 was a big transitional year for pop music - the standard HDH fare was not gonna cut it against Respect, Sgt. Pepper and Grapevine.

[robb_k]

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j56/Robb_K/Image1.jpg [[http://s77.photobucket.com/user/Robb_K/media/Image1.jpg.html)
I like "I'll Turn To Stone" better by far and away.

[thisoldheart]

Mary Wilson has said that 7 Rooms is her fave HDH song - and she's a gal with credentials!

The thing about selecting a single release is not so much if YOU like it, but will the intended audience give up a sandwich for it. I don't care for Reflections, but, I'd have put it out. IMHO, I'll turn To Stone would have been a huge step backward after the Trilogy - much like In & Out Of Love was or I Got A Feeling would have. 1967 was a big transitional year for pop music - the standard HDH fare was not gonna cut it against Respect, Sgt. Pepper and Grapevine.
i think you're correct. however, if h/d/h had made "forever came today" sound heavier, thicker, and a little more trippy it would have been the perfect follow-up to "reflections".

it seems that everything h/d/h did around "you keep me hangin' on" and "reach out" equaled what lennon/mccartney & jagger/richards were doing. it was straight on rock and roll with a seriously heavy r&b flavor. h/d/h didn't seem to be able to keep that ball rolling. i like "band of gold", but that is too bubble gum compared to where h/d/h had been, and where they should have headed. perhaps, after a zillion monster songs they had just lost their groove.

[supremester]

I do think HDH had slipped. Sometimes when the vibe at work isn't good, the product suffers. Maybe you're right: I don't know what Forever Came Today needed - except I don't like the bgs at all during the bridge. Mary & Flo might have sounded a lot better. Band Of Gold was a great record, but after I bought it, I rarely played it.

[Motown Eddie]

I feel that "I'll Turn To Stone" would've been a better "A side" for the Four Tops. While I'll always love "7 Rooms of Gloom", it was time for something a bit different coming after the big productions of "Reach Out", "Standing In The Shadows" & "Bernadette". And The Foundations' 1968 hit "Build Me Up Buttercup" was influenced by "I'll Turn To Stone".

[supremester]

I agree about Buttercup, but the vocal on it is much smoother and more melodic than Levi on Stone - which is a huge step back. Clearly HDHwas trying to get a message to BG here: 2 months between The Happening and Reflections - then In & out, nothing for Martha and, due to the majesty of levi's voice, 2 more top 20 hits with Renee & Carpenter - but AFTER a four month lapse betwwen you Keep Running Away and Renee [[which, ironically, charted almost exactly as 7Rooms - both in top 20 4 weeks, both peak at #14 for 2 weeks, with Renee charting slightly higher the other two 2 weeks.) Sensing the failure of & Rooms, Motown serviced radio with a red vinyl 45 of I'll Turn To Stone - which peaked at #76 after 5 weeks and evaporated against competition like Light My Fire, Respect, Reflections, Sgt pepper, White Rabbit, Little Bit o Soul, You're my Everything, Whiter Shade of Pale, San Francisco and I was Made To Love Her. A year earlier, maybe, but this standard HDH in summer of '67 was not going to compete - and it didn't. I like it too, but it simply wasn't gonna hit.

[Nothing But Soul]

The first time I heard "I'll Turn To Stone" was on the Four Tops Live! album, which I bought shortly after it came out in November 1966. I was already familiar with every song on that album except "I'll Turn to Stone." I just assumed that it was going to be the next Tops single. I have to believe that at one time the Four Tops thought so, too. I don't believe they would have taken the time to learn to perform a song live that was going to be relegated to being a "B" side and include it on their first live album. I'm guessing that the Motown quality control folks thought differently about this though due to the fact that "I'll Turn to Stone" didn't get released as a single until six months later, and then only as the flip side of "7 Rooms of Gloom." The decision makers at Motown must have thought that "Seven Rooms of Gloom" was more in line with the direction the Tops were going [["Reach Out I'll Be There", "Standing in the Shadows of Love" and "Bernadette").

[marv2]

The first time I heard "I'll Turn To Stone" was on the Four Tops Live! album, which I bought shortly after it came out in November 1966. I was already familiar with every song on that album except "I'll Turn to Stone." I just assumed that it was going to be the next Tops single. I have to believe that at one time the Four Tops thought so, too. I don't believe they would have taken the time to learn to perform a song live that was going to be relegated to being a "B" side and include it on their first live album. I'm guessing that the Motown quality control folks thought differently about this though due to the fact that "I'll Turn to Stone" didn't get released as a single until six months later, and then only as the flip side of "7 Rooms of Gloom." The decision makers at Motown must have thought that "Seven Rooms of Gloom" was more in line with the direction the Tops were going [["Reach Out I'll Be There", "Standing in the Shadows of Love" and "Bernadette").

This is one time I would have had to disagree with their Quality Control Dept. They could have released "I'll To Stone" as a single before or after "7 Rooms...." and it would have been a sizeable hit!

[supremester]

They did release it after 7 Rooms - and it was a sizable flop. They had it in the can in mid 66 and probably considered it for single release but kept coming up with stronger product. I imagine the told the Tops that it was going to be a single and it became part of their act - at least once - to get it on the live album - IF it was even IN the act at that time. Motown may have thought it would be the follow up to Reach Out so they added it via a studio/live track. Who knows where the "live" version was recorded. After The Live LP was pressed, Standing In The Shadows got recorded and rushed out - leaving I'll Turn To Stone on the shelf. Ditto Bernadette. Ditto 7 Rooms. My guess is that after the relative failure of Shake Me, Wake Me that Motown realized perhaps Supremes' rejects were not the ticket for The Tops. I really do not think that Levi's voice, great as it is, could handle the intricacies of the melodies on those two - especially I'll Turn To Stone .
I think the only reason I'll Turn To Stone got released is that Motown was stuck with a ton of unsold 7 Rooms singles and they had nothing else, so they pressed red vinyl promo singles and serviced it to radio with little interest. Geez, they mined that same LP for another year.
Like In & Out Of Love, you can't follow a string of strong records with a flaccid entry. I can't even tell if I like In & Out because it was SUCH a let down after all the others. I guess I like it ok, but, a weak single always spelled D-O-O-M to me: too many weak singles and all of the sudden, you're The Marvelettes or Martha - can't get a hit even on a strong record. So I dreaded releases like In 7, In & Out, Some Things, Composer, I'll Try Something New.

I'll Turn To Stone was released, it bombed, and was followed by two respectable hits that I'm sure were never intended to see a 7" release. It's not like The Tops had slipped yet - radio was just not into that standard HDH sound anymore - especially a B grade one. The track is great, but the vocal, not so great.

[marv2]

"Its The Same Old Song" did not bomb. It was a #5 Billboard Pop Hit and #2 R&B. "I'll Turn to Stone" was not released as an A-side single. I don't understand anything you wrote in your above post.

[supremester]

Oops. I meant I'll Turn To Stone. Duh. And it was released as an A side. And it bombed, but I do agree with your earlier comment that Levi is very effective on the "statue" line" - without you there........" also works. It's really just a strong LP cut that limped to #76 after 5 weeks of struggling.

[reese]

The live version of I'LL TURN TO STONE wasn't completely live. The performance was originally recorded at the Roostertail in Detroit, but Levi's vocal was redone in the studio because I think he forgot some of the words during the live performance.

The original live vocal [[with Levi's mistakes) was eventually released on the Four Tops' boxed set FOUREVER.

[Nothing But Soul]

The live version of I'LL TURN TO STONE wasn't completely live. The performance was originally recorded at the Roostertail in Detroit, but Levi's vocal was redone in the studio because I think he forgot some of the words during the live performance.

The original live vocal [[with Levi's mistakes) was eventually released on the Four Tops' boxed set FOUREVER.

Thank you, Reese, that's very interesting information. I have a lot of Motown box sets, but FOUREVER is one of the few I didn't get.

[marv2]

The live version of I'LL TURN TO STONE wasn't completely live. The performance was originally recorded at the Roostertail in Detroit, but Levi's vocal was redone in the studio because I think he forgot some of the words during the live performance.

The original live vocal [[with Levi's mistakes) was eventually released on the Four Tops' boxed set FOUREVER.

Yes, that's the part where he says, " and I almost blew it........" when he realized he forgot a few of the words.

[marv2]

I feel that "I'll Turn To Stone" would've been a better "A side" for the Four Tops. While I'll always love "7 Rooms of Gloom", it was time for something a bit different coming after the big productions of "Reach Out", "Standing In The Shadows" & "Bernadette". And The Foundations' 1968 hit "Build Me Up Buttercup" was influenced by "I'll Turn To Stone".

Motown Eddie, I had never realized or made the connnection to the sound of the Foundations, "Build Me Up Buttercup" before but you are right. Now I know why I liked that song so much.