If you were Berry Gordy or Diana Ross

[topdiva1]

If you were Mr. Gordy or Diana Ross - would you ever want the Flo Ballard story told.

Would you want the following books, Where Did Our Love G, The Lost Supreme, Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme, Call Her Miss Ross, Secrets Of A Sparrow, Supreme Faith, All That Glittered, My Life With The Supremes , and To Be Loved - rolled into on big FLO BALLARD movie?

Comments please.

[marv2]

It is totally understandable that they would not like any film made that questioned their personal, moral characters. They have children and grandchildren, family, friends ,etc. so I do understand.

Topdiva the books you listed just proves the point I was hoping to make in another thread and that is the story is already out there in several books and in the minds of the public. You might want to add "To Be Loved" by Berry Gordy to the list. I think a composite of those books would be difficult but would give a more rounded view of the story.

[jobeterob]

Good idea really.

I don't think it is so much what is in any book. They make no difference. Berry is ensconced in some mansion overlooking the ocean and gets honored here and there, when he allows it. Miss Ross gives some concerts, sells them all out and runs around the world in limos and jets after her children and grandbaby. She has had adulation beyond belief and isn't willing to give it up.

What does make the difference is it is THEIR personal life. And it doesn't matter who you are ~ Barack Obama, George Bush, Hilary Clinton, Tiger Woods, Otis Williams, Stevie Wonder or Diana Ross and Berry Gordy ~ you prefer that it be told your way.

But they are public figures and must take what comes with the turf ~ most of those people [[except maybe Otis) are legendardy and their story is a public story.

I do object to how some stories are written; in the Ribowsky book about Stevie Wonder, considerable times and many pages are spent on Stevie Wonder's early sexuality and his father "pimping out" his Mother. Lula is deceased; little wonder he dared write that now and not earlier. This man Ribowsky dares to claim as his credible sources for his book, people like Otis and Kim Weston. I can't imagine who provided his information on Lula. But I will say "very nice of him"; God might get him for that.

[topdiva1]

Keeping with the main subject of this thread - FLO BALLARD MOVIE - I think that both Gordy and Ross would rather dine on rotten meat in Gordy's Bel Air mansion than have this movie about Flo Ballards life made.

Whatever - composite of these books used both Ross and Gordy will look like they have already served rotten meat - but to Flo Ballard and not themselves.

[marv2]

Keeping with the main subject of this thread - FLO BALLARD MOVIE - I think that both Gordy and Ross would rather dine on rotten meat in Gordy's Bel Air mansion than have this movie about Flo Ballards life made.

Whatever - composite of these books used both Ross and Gordy will look like they have already served rotten meat - but to Flo Ballard and not themselves.

Now there you have it folks. The real crux of the problem! LOL! They did the dirt and now are fearful of it getting it out. That is a very understandable, human condition. The one thing neither has ever thought of doing [[at least publicly) is saying "I'M SORRY" in any honest or contrived way at all!

People speak about Mary Wilson's involvement in this big drama, but forget that she put her head on the chopping block publicly years ago when she wrote her first book and went on shows like "The Phil Donahue Show" and opened herself up to questions by the public as to what really happened and what she could have done at the time to prevent certain things from occuring. That took a lot of courage in my opinion, but she did it.

[topdiva1]

Still in all, for all the excuses that could be offerred, Flo was basically robbed of money that was rightfully her's, barred from using a name that she helped make an institution, and then, stabbed front and back like Julius Caesar.

[marv2]

Still in all, for all the excuses that could be offerred, Flo was basically robbed of money that was rightfully her's, barred from using a name that she helped make an institution, and then, stabbed front and back like Julius Caesar.

Thank you Topdiva, that is a precise synopsis of the story as I understand it. Still there are a few that persist in claiming that Florence did "it" to herself......... I could never understand that way of thinking.

[topdiva1]

Thank you Topdiva, that is precise synopsis of the story as I understand it. Still there are a few that persist in claiming that Florence did "it" to herself......... I could never understand that way of thinking.

Even "if" she did it to herself - let us see that final for ourselves - and come to our own understanding, as Tony Turner said in an interview -"was Flo Ballard - Innocent of guilt - or - guilty of Innocence".

[marv2]

Even "if" she did it to herself - let us see that final for ourselves - and come to our own understanding, as Tony Turner said in an interview -"was Flo Ballard - Innocent of guilt - or - guilty of Innocence".

Great point! I think the latter. I think she believed that the group was as important to the others as it was to her. She believed that no matter what, right would win out in the long run. She believed in speaking up when being treated unfairly would cause positive change. She believed all those things most of us are taught from the time that we are children. Unfortunately in the big, bad, dirty World of reality that's not always the case.

[topdiva1]

Great point! I think the latter. I think she believed that the group was as important to the others as it was to her. She believed that no matter what, right would win out in the long run. She believed in speaking up when being treated unfairly would cause positive change. She believed all those things most of us are taught from the time that we are children. Unfortunately in the big, bad, dirty World of reality that's not always the case.


And somebody should have told Flo.

[marv2]

And somebody should have told Flo.

I think Mary tried but didn't really know the right way. I wished someone like her mother could have made her understand things.

[jobeterob]

Another sad version of this story is that Flo did sign away her rights, Flo could have gotten a lawyer, Flo did get a lawyer but a crooked one, Flo was an alcoholic and they don't tend to look after themselves or "the business" as Mary learned she had to or she would have ended up like Flo ~ "I'll be damned if I'm going to end up like Flo".

You can be be a lucky person if you live your life a certain way; she made choices that were terrible and it appears her offspring and some of her family did too.

Berry did pay for her funeral; Diana did give money to her children. No one else did.

[topdiva1]

Another sad version of this story is that Flo did sign away her rights, Flo could have gotten a lawyer, Flo did get a lawyer but a crooked one, Flo was an alcoholic and they don't tend to look after themselves or "the business" as Mary learned she had to or she would have ended up like Flo ~ "I'll be damned if I'm going to end up like Flo".

You can be be a lucky person if you live your life a certain way; she made choices that were terrible and it appears her offspring and some of her family did too.

Berry did pay for her funeral; Diana did give money to her children. No one else did.


Most of what you say may have some merit - but I do not believe that Flo or anyone would knowingly hire a crooked lawyer.

Most of Motown's dealings and stars appears to be a case of "...takers being took".

[marv2]

Another sad version of this story is that Flo did sign away her rights, Flo could have gotten a lawyer, Flo did get a lawyer but a crooked one, Flo was an alcoholic and they don't tend to look after themselves or "the business" as Mary learned she had to or she would have ended up like Flo ~ "I'll be damned if I'm going to end up like Flo".

You can be be a lucky person if you live your life a certain way; she made choices that were terrible and it appears her offspring and some of her family did too.

Berry did pay for her funeral; Diana did give money to her children. No one else did.

Diana Ross is an alcoholic, she is just an older one and Florence was just in her twenties. I don't think they had places like Promises Rehabilitation Center back then. Florence practically begged for help with her drinking problem while a patient at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, but nothing was done.

Eddie Kendricks gave her money and other people tried to help out including Mary Wilson. They did what they could at the time.

I am still trying to figure out what were the "terrible choices" that Florence made as a young woman in her twenties other than marrying Tommy Chapman and letting him manage her after she was fired from the Supremes. I don't think the Ballard Family is atypical of many large, working class American Families so whatever poor choices you are referring to in regards to the Ballards is a mystery to me.

Maybe Diane could have done more to help her brother T-Boy with his drug problems and he might not have ended up the way he did, dead, along with his wife/girlfriend in a crackhouse in Southfield; bodies partiallly decomposed when they were found.

Paying for a funeral does not make you a special person. I've done that myself out of love........not guilt!

[RossHolloway]

Love Is In Our Heart.

One of the special things that I have always admired about both Diana Ross and Berry Gordy is that they have always taken the high road. Neither of them have had to trade and deal in rumor or gossip or petty arguments about a fellow singer or for Berry one of his employees. I wish people on this and other blogs could live by and follow their examples. In 1991 I have the thrill of seeing Diana Ross in concert in Detroit, Michigan, and at this concert Florence Ballard's two oldest daughters were in attendance. Diana called them both up to the stage and introduced them to the audience. I do not believe that they would have been in attendance at Diana Ross' concert if they hated her. Or if Florence had still held a grudge when she passed on in 1976. I believe that the media and some bitter fans may still hold on to old wounds, but Mr. Gordy and Ms. Ross clearly do not. To this day, over 40 years after Florence left the group and Diana Ross left as the original lead singer, I still love listening to their music because of how their songs make me feel. Their musical legacy is what we should remember and hold on to, and not to old wounds and slights, especially when none of us here were there and don't know the details of who said what to whom. Just sit back and put on some of their music, how can you not feel good about what they created and gave to the world? The Supremes were just magical to me, and that's why I love them, and all of them, not just some, for what they contributed to the musical and entertainment world. That's the best way to keep their legacy alive, honor them by playing their music and giving it to some young person who is not familiar with the great music that they created. Doing anything else-like trading in gossip and rumor- dishonors their talents, accomplishments and their legacy. Start by listening to Love Is in Our Heart off of their Sing Holland-Dozier-Holland album and listen to just how great they truly were. Isn't that truly the best way to keep their legacy alive?

[jillfoster]

Love Is In Our Heart.

[B]One of the special things that I have always admired about both Diana Ross and Berry Gordy is that they have always taken the high road. Neither of them have had to trade and deal in rumor or gossip or petty arguments about a fellow singer or for Berry one of his employees. B]

It's nice to admire that, but keep in mind that Berry and Diana have the PRIVELEDGE to be able to take the high road, because they got ALL THE MONEY.

[topdiva1]

It's nice to admire that, but keep in keep in mind that Berry and Diana have the PRIVELEDGE to be able to take the high road, because they got ALL THE MONEY.

Taking the high road by keeping your mouth shut - and avoiding the subject - after you have financially raped, ruined, spoiled, and broken someone's heart - is not my idea of TAKING THE HIGH ROAD.

As great as The Supremes were - the writing - the production - the gowns - the musoc, while it still remains very enjoyable by millions around the world - it is STILL NO EXCUSE for the way Flo Ballard was robbed and treated while in and then out of the Supremes.

[RossHolloway]

It's nice to admire that, but keep in mind that Berry and Diana have the PRIVELEDGE to be able to take the high road, because they got ALL THE MONEY.

There have been many individuals who came thru Motown that have taken the high road, and are not millionaires today. The high road can be taken by many people, not just the wealthy, and not just entertainers. Unfortunately, that lesson is missed by many people who write on this blog. The entertainment business can be an ugly business, not just at Motown, but other record labels, movie studios, theatre companys, etc, etc, etc. And as of today, I don't know of anyone who has gone thru life without at some point being heartbroken, betrayed, jilted, cheated or otherwise. It's just a part of life. No one is perfect and no one is without sin. Not me, not you, not Berry, not Diana, not Florence. But thankfully there are things called forgiveness and grace.

[nomis]

I think your mistaking "the high road" with people just being proud of their accomplishments and not wanting to tarnish the hard work theyve done..plenty of female singers went through incredible pain..Billie Holiday..Judy Garland..Dusty Springfield..It didnt just happen to Flo you know..Berry and Diana are not babes in the wood plenty of arrows have been flung in their direction before I doubt they care..they probably just want to enjoy the rest of their days and pray their family and friends have good health...

[jobeterob]

Excellent Ross Holloway.

Your posts need to be re-read and absorbed.

You are a kind and honorable person; the world needs more of you.

[jobeterob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TKcPxoiY74

[RossHolloway]

Excellent Ross Holloway.

Your posts need to be re-read and absorbed.

You are a kind and honorable person; the world needs more of you.

Thanks for the kind words.

[marv2]

it's nice to admire that, but keep in mind that berry and diana have the priveledge to be able to take the high road, because they got all the money.


whoomp!!!!

[captainjames]

Just for the record Diana did not leave Motown as a millionaire, in fact Motown did not give much more than they gave Flo when she left. When Diana was a Supreme the bank roll was split three ways so I don't know where all the "Diana" got all the money crap came from.

[marv2]

Just for the record Diana did not leave Motown as a millionaire, in fact Motown did not give much more than they gave Flo when she left. When Diana was a Supreme the bank roll was split three ways so I don't know where all the "Diana" got all the money crap came from.

She was deliberately put in a position above all the others to "get all the money". I like how Freda Payne said it ," everyone got a bit of fame, but only Diana Ross got the fame and the money...."

[marv2]

Love Is In Our Heart.

One of the special things that I have always admired about both Diana Ross and Berry Gordy is that they have always taken the high road. Neither of them have had to trade and deal in rumor or gossip or petty arguments about a fellow singer or for Berry one of his employees. I wish people on this and other blogs could live by and follow their examples. In 1991 I have the thrill of seeing Diana Ross in concert in Detroit, Michigan, and at this concert Florence Ballard's two oldest daughters were in attendance. Diana called them both up to the stage and introduced them to the audience. I do not believe that they would have been in attendance at Diana Ross' concert if they hated her. Or if Florence had still held a grudge when she passed on in 1976. I believe that the media and some bitter fans may still hold on to old wounds, but Mr. Gordy and Ms. Ross clearly do not. To this day, over 40 years after Florence left the group and Diana Ross left as the original lead singer, I still love listening to their music because of how their songs make me feel. Their musical legacy is what we should remember and hold on to, and not to old wounds and slights, especially when none of us here were there and don't know the details of who said what to whom. Just sit back and put on some of their music, how can you not feel good about what they created and gave to the world? The Supremes were just magical to me, and that's why I love them, and all of them, not just some, for what they contributed to the musical and entertainment world. That's the best way to keep their legacy alive, honor them by playing their music and giving it to some young person who is not familiar with the great music that they created. Doing anything else-like trading in gossip and rumor- dishonors their talents, accomplishments and their legacy. Start by listening to Love Is in Our Heart off of their Sing Holland-Dozier-Holland album and listen to just how great they truly were. Isn't that truly the best way to keep their legacy alive?

Yeah, well 2 years later in 1993 Lisa Chapman was on television [[Entertainment Tonight) in tears stating that she was hurt and embarassed by Diana Ross referring to her mother Florence Ballard as a drunk in her book "Secrets of a Sparrow". They interviewed Pat, Florence's sister also and they had to bleep part of what she had to say.....

[marv2]

Taking the high road by keeping your mouth shut - and avoiding the subject - after you have financially raped, ruined, spoiled, and broken someone's heart - is not my idea of TAKING THE HIGH ROAD.

As great as The Supremes were - the writing - the production - the gowns - the musoc, while it still remains very enjoyable by millions around the world - it is STILL NO EXCUSE for the way Flo Ballard was robbed and treated while in and then out of the Supremes.

It is real easy to "take the high road" when you are alive and have everything........

[marv2]

There have been many individuals who came thru Motown that have taken the high road, and are not millionaires today. The high road can be taken by many people, not just the wealthy, and not just entertainers. Unfortunately, that lesson is missed by many people who write on this blog. The entertainment business can be an ugly business, not just at Motown, but other record labels, movie studios, theatre companys, etc, etc, etc. And as of today, I don't know of anyone who has gone thru life without at some point being heartbroken, betrayed, jilted, cheated or otherwise. It's just a part of life. No one is perfect and no one is without sin. Not me, not you, not Berry, not Diana, not Florence. But thankfully there are things called forgiveness and grace.


I think in this case you are mistaking taking the high road for being a wimp, a push over or too tired or afraid to fight back. Florence tried to take the "high road " when she was initally fired from the group. In published magazine interviews she never let on as to what really happen to cause her to no longer be with the group. In fact she would state part of the made up Motown PR line about being tired of traveling and wanting to settle down and that she , Mary and Diane are like sisters.

When she finally woke up to the reality that she was going to be left to suffer, she started speaking up and "telling it" which is how Peter Benjaminson got his taped interviews with her. Sadly she took the high road too long and by that time it was too late. She was gone.

[stephanie]

Billie Holiday..Judy Garland..Dusty Springfield..It didnt just happen to Flo you know..Berry and Diana are not babes in the wood>>>>>>>

First of all if the REAL Flo Ballard story is to be told it would have to be a two parter like the Temptations story. Billie Holliday and Dusty Springfield [[although Springfield was not that tragic) did whatever to themselves. Garland who was a product of the MGM system and was worked to death and popped pills that were given to her as kid didnt do it to herself I see this as a form of child abuse! Mickey Rooney once said in an interview Judy would be sprawled out on one bed and he on another after the studio gave them uppers and downers as kids and that is how Judy got hooked. He said he was able to get out of it because they took more advantage of her because she was a girl. Garland cant be blamed for what happened to her in this case. Florence didnt come into the Supremes drinking and being irresponsible. Times were different then and she was a kid when she joined the Supremes living an adult life singing, touring and being belittled by Berry and having Ross pushing the fact of having Berry as her way of accumulating power. Diana Ross is a great entertainer and I admire her body of work but [[and again she was young) the underhandedness of what went on back then drove her to rebel. How would any of us feel if we picked the name and then Ross is chosen as the designated lead singer. Ok thats not bad we can live with that.
What adds insult to injury is Flo and Mary were told to show up for press conferences 20 minutes later, put in another dressing room, and Ross was made to be the spokesperson for the group! I can see how a young girl would act out over this. Diana would go around wielding her power telling everyone "well we will just see what Mr Gordy thinks" not just to Flo
but to anyone else who crossed her path. People at Motown were not jealous of Ross the talent it was the high and mighty attitude. Berry going around telling people why dont you work as hard as Diana and she was his girlfriend! If what Mary says is true they were not even told about the name change and rumors were flying around and then the marquee being changed to Diana Ross and the Supremes. People lets be real here Diana Ross was a driven individual who wanted the attention and the glory I dont care how hard Mary and Flo worked that doesnt mean they would have gotten more leads or opportunities. When Mary did get a lead on Come and get these Memories the lead singer gets a song to herself These Boots on the A Go Go album. Florence didnt do this to herself it was the Motown machine and Berry that contributed to her problems. I dont even think she had a problem with Diana singing lead it was Gordy pitting the girls against each other he was street wise he knew what this would do. He could have handled things differently. Diana wanted out of the group and he knew if he kept pushing Flos buttons she would eventually self destruct. Does he owe her an apology I say yes. Does Ross not necessarily she was young and any girl her age at that time may have acted the same way. Now we have Smokey saying Flo was never the lead singer of the group in the beginning. Even if she wasnt instead of everyone enjoying Dreamgirl for what it is [[a work of fiction) these rich people still care about how they are perceived. Its funny to me if they are so innocent and confident why do they care?

[marv2]

Its funny to me if they are so innocent and confident why do they care?

For me it is just as important. Why do their "fans" care if they don't believe their idols could have done such things to someone?

[stephanie]

The fans care because we know we were fed a lie back in the day. Flo wanted to start a family, Flo wanted to open up an antique shop, flo was tired..LOL Berry said he wanted to protect her he wanted to protect the Motown image and nothing he says would make me think otherwise. Again I am not here to judge I was not there but if I were to pick one book I would pick Marys Dreamgirl and yes a second book Peter Benjaminsons. Marys because she was there and Peters because the words are from the mouth of Florence herself. Flo didnt pull any punches I dont think she lied about anything. I wish Mary Wilson and Peter could serve as consultants on the film because then it would really be true to life. Mary could tell them exactly what happened. I have always wished that Diana Ross would elaborate on how things were I see no problem with her coming out and saying she tried to help Flo and how she went about it at the time it would have been good PR for her when she wrote Secrets of a Sparrow. She always evades questions about Flo. We are fed exaggerations from other people here is her chance to set the record straight. I will always love the music but more so than that the three women who were the Supremes will always be in my heart especially Flo.

[simplysupreme]

Yeah, well 2 years later in 1993 Lisa Chapman was on television [[Entertainment Tonight) in tears stating that she was hurt and embarassed by Diana Ross referring to her mother Florence Ballard as a drunk in her book "Secrets of a Sparrow". They interviewed Pat, Florence's sister also and they had to bleep part of what she had to say.....

Yeah, well a little while later the Chapman Ballards said that they had been deceived by Hard Copy [[not Entertainment Tonight) who led them to believe Diana had wriiten things about Florence, which she had not. They all admitted that they had not read the book for themselves before commenting on it.

[nomis]

Yeah it was Hard Copy I think Lisa said "She called my mother a drunk" and the sister said "I thought she was better away from Berry but shes worse" that was it pretty much,Oh and Tony Turner was on as well saying "Flo Ballard was never jealous of anybody in her life"....standard Hard copy froth...

[marv2]

Yeah, well a little while later the Chapman Ballards said that they had been deceived by Hard Copy [[not Entertainment Tonight) who led them to believe Diana had wriiten things about Florence, which she had not. They all admitted that they had not read the book for themselves before commenting on it.

It was "Hard Copy". Thank you for correcting that for me. So when and where did the "Chapman Ballards" say this? I have the book [[as awful as it is) can look up exactly what Diane wrote so that is not of issue here. I want to know when and where and did "Hard Copy" acknowledge any willful deception?

[marv2]

Yeah it was Hard Copy I think Lisa said "She called my mother a drunk" and the sister said "I thought she was better away from Berry but shes worse" that was it pretty much,Oh and Tony Turner was on as well saying "Flo Ballard was never jealous of anybody in her life"....standard Hard copy froth...

Nomis, you remember seeing it too? Great!

[simplysupreme]

It was "Hard Copy". Thank you for correcting that for me. So when and where did the "Chapman Ballards" say this? I have the book [[as awful as it is) can look up exactly what Diane wrote so that is not of issue here. I want to know when and where and did "Hard Copy" acknowledge any willful deception?

The following March to people at the Supremes Hollywood Walk of Fame induction ceremony. Of course Hard Copy didn't admit any wrong doing. Diana wasn't going to go after a tacky tabloid televison show. Neither were the Ballards. They's been paid for the interview. You think they were gonna give the money back?

[marv2]

The following March to people at the Supremes Hollywood Walk of Fame induction ceremony. Of course Hard Copy didn't admit any wrong doing. Diana wasn't going to go after a tacky tabloid televison show. Neither were the Ballards. They's been paid for the interview. You think they were gonna give the money back?

I have the entire ceremony and reception on video tape. Several friends of mine were in attendance. One in particular sat with the Chapman Sisters and spent a considerable amount of time with them that day. I'll ask him.

So, if you were Mr. Gordy or Diana Ross - would you ever want the Flo Ballard story told?

[simplysupreme]

I have the entire ceremony and reception on video tape. Several friends of mine were in attendance. One in particular sat with the Chapman Sisters and spent a considerable amount of time with them that day. I'll ask him.

So, if you were Mr. Gordy or Diana Ross - would you ever want the Flo Ballard story told?

So do I, and I also had friends in attendance.

Sure I'd want the story told. If it is, I don't think it will be what some are hoping for. As I said in another thread, with Florence's daughters consulting, it won't be a slam against anyone.

[captainjames]

Yeah, well a little while later the Chapman Ballards said that they had been deceived by Hard Copy [[not Entertainment Tonight) who led them to believe Diana had wriiten things about Florence, which she had not. They all admitted that they had not read the book for themselves before commenting on it.

Thanks Simplysupreme,
yeah I still have a VHS copy of this and there are so many SS's on this site that it is sometimes best to just ignore.

Again just for the record Diana did not leave Motown as a Millionaire as some on here would like to make others believe, although it is known that she has helped some of her fellow Supremes with their finances. Money wise they were paid equally unless we don't believe what Mary has said as well.

Reporters do as some on this site do.......Instigate!!
The Ballard sisters retracted their statement and admitted they never even read the book. However, I have read the book and never once did Diana indicate that Flo was a drunk.

[topdiva1]

Thanks Simplysupreme,
yeah I still have a VHS copy of this and there are so many SS's on this site that it is sometimes best to just ignore.

Again just for the record Diana did not leave Motown as a Millionaire as some on her would like to make others believe, although it is known that she has helped some of her fellow Supremes with their finances. Money wise they were paid equally unless we don't believe what Mary has said as well.

Reporters do as some on this site do.......Instigate!!
The Ballard sisters retracted their statement and admitted they never even read the book. However, I have read the book and never once did Diana indicate that Flo was a drunk.

Captain - you need to reread this book SECRETS OF A SPARROW if you say with authority that "..never once did Diana indicate that Flo was a drunk", here my dear are just a few times in that book that Diana did indicate that Flo Ballard was a drunk.

Page 134

"She [[FLO) went on to hard liquor. Often when we went on stage she would be completely out of it and it seemed as if she just didn't care."

Page 135

"But here we were, as excited as we could be, and then Florence showed up, late and drunk".

"We just saw her [[FLO) as an angry woman who drank too much and wouldn't take responsibility for herself."

page 136

"Florence was drunk and she was yelling and carrying on".

"I didn't want to tell him [[GORDY) how drunk Florence was....."


Now Diana Ross may not of said FLO BALLARD IS A DRUNK - but her above quotes and many others indicate what she felt about Florence Ballard - for more on this subject you need to careful re-read SECRETS OF A SPARROW as do the Ballard sisters. I will close with another Ross quote that truly expresses her feelings from page 136 of her own self written bio,

"At the beginning of 1967, by mutual consent, Florence left the group"

My question - by whose mutual consent - and Flo left or was fired in June/July 1967, how in the hell is that the beginning of 1967.

Ross then continues in her own words on page 136

"Although we were very sad things hadn't worked out with Florence, we a;so breathed a sigh of relief. We were tired of having to cope with her moods and trying to take care of her".

In her own words Diana Ross wrote what she felt as her truth - does she want this on the silver scene - I think not.

INVESTIGATE - before you make statements - Diana Ross may not of called Florence Ballard an out and out bitchy drunk diva - but Diana Ross certainly implied it in this and other incidents.

[captainjames]

TopD
As I stated before and as indicated in her book no where did Diana come out and state Flo was a drunk. Now what you read into it and what I read into is two separate things. Like I said there is too many SS's on this site.

[topdiva1]

TopD
As I stated before and as indicated in her book no where did Diana come out and state Flo was a drunk. Now what you read into it and what I read into is two separate things. Like I said there is too many SS's on this site.

And I also said Ross never came out and said Flo Ballard was a drunk - BUT - she implied it like crazy - relax!!!

[captainjames]

Captain - you need to reread this book SECRETS OF A SPARROW if you say with authority that "..never once did Diana indicate that Flo was a drunk", here my dear are just a few times in that book that Diana did indicate that Flo Ballard was a drunk.

Page 134

"She [[FLO) went on to hard liquor. Often when we went on stage she would be completely out of it and it seemed as if she just didn't care."

Page 135

"But here we were, as excited as we could be, and then Florence showed up, late and drunk".

"We just saw her [[FLO) as an angry woman who drank too much and wouldn't take responsibility for herself."

page 136

"Florence was drunk and she was yelling and carrying on".

"I didn't want to tell him [[GORDY) how drunk Florence was....."


Now Diana Ross may not of said FLO BALLARD IS A DRUNK - but her above quotes and many others indicate what she felt about Florence Ballard - for more on this subject you need to careful re-read SECRETS OF A SPARROW as do the Ballard sisters. I will close with another Ross quote that truly expresses her feelings from page 136 of her own self written bio,

"At the beginning of 1967, by mutual consent, Florence left the group"

My question - by whose mutual consent - and Flo left or was fired in June/July 1967, how in the hell is that the beginning of 1967.

Ross then continues in her own words on page 136

"Although we were very sad things hadn't worked out with Florence, we a;so breathed a sigh of relief. We were tired of having to cope with her moods and trying to take care of her".

In her own words Diana Ross wrote what she felt as her truth - does she want this on the silver scene - I think not.

INVESTIGATE - before you make statements - Diana Ross may not of called Florence Ballard an out and out bitchy drunk diva - but Diana Ross certainly implied it in this and other incidents.

Do you actually think they will show the many moods of Flo that is indicated here ? Do you really think the mutual consent of Diana, Mary and perhaps even Flo herself of wanting out of the group will shine a light on things ? The way I see it she could of had two offers at this point probably "quit or be fired". If I were Flo I would of said Fire me then. If given that ultimatium by Flo I bet we would of gotten a different story and perhaps Flo would of gotten a bit more money. Hard to say but once you sign that paper it means you QUIT, gave up, gave in, had enough or just plain ticked off. If Flo really wanted to try and take them down as you say she should of said no "I am not going" but unlike Dreamgirls she didn't and perhaps because something inside of her said "I messed up."

[topdiva1]

Do you actually think they will show the many moods of Flo that is indicated here ? Do you really think the mutual consent of Diana, Mary and perhaps even Flo herself of wanting out of the group will shine a light on things ? The way I see it she could of had two offers at this point probably "quit or be fired". If I were Flo I would of said Fire me then. If given that ultimatium by Flo I bet we would of gotten a different story and perhaps Flo would of gotten a bit more money. Hard to say but once you sign that paper it means you QUIT, gave up, gave in, had enough or just plain ticked off. If Flo really wanted to try and take them down as you say she should of said no "I am not going" but unlike Dreamgirls she didn't and perhaps because something inside of her said "I messed up."


Please Read - THE LOST SUPREME by Peter Benjaminson and also listen to the Flo interviews Mr. Benjaminson did - they are posted on youtube - I believe there are about six or seven of them and you will hear Flo in her own words - then let us chat.

[topdiva1]

Yeah it was Hard Copy I think Lisa said "She called my mother a drunk" and the sister said "I thought she was better away from Berry but shes worse" that was it pretty much,Oh and Tony Turner was on as well saying "Flo Ballard was never jealous of anybody in her life"....standard Hard copy froth...

Why would the Ballard sister interview on a book they had not read. It just goes to show ya.

[captainjames]

Please Read - THE LOST SUPREME by Peter Benjaminson and also listen to the Flo interviews Mr. Benjaminson did - they are posted on youtube - I believe there are about six or seven of them and you will hear Flo in her own words - then let us chat.

Oh my Topd
you must try to listen with your ears;
especially when Flo says "To Drink and be Depressed can only cause Turmoil especially when your Angry." Words by her own admission. These are the moods swings that are spoken of.

[simplysupreme]

Thanks Simplysupreme,
yeah I still have a VHS copy of this and there are so many SS's on this site that it is sometimes best to just ignore.

Again just for the record Diana did not leave Motown as a Millionaire as some on here would like to make others believe, although it is known that she has helped some of her fellow Supremes with their finances. Money wise they were paid equally unless we don't believe what Mary has said as well.

Reporters do as some on this site do.......Instigate!!

I hear ya! And they're going to have their faces cracked if this movie gets made. And that's a big IF!

[topdiva1]

Oh my Topd
you must try to listen with your ears;
especially when Flo says "To Drink and be Depressed can only cause Turmoil especially when your Angry." Words by her own admission. These are the moods swings that are spoken of.

The words above do not reflect or bear witness to mood swings in my opinion.

[topdiva1]

I hear ya! And they're going to have their faces cracked if this movie gets made. And that's a big IF!


Your right it may be a big "if". But should it be made - faces will crack lie mirrors.

[floyjoy678]

I just want to know why you people are saying it's wrong for Diana to write about Florence drinking and showing up to gigs hungover but Mary was allowed to do it when she wrote her book? I think Mary writes about Flo being drunk more than Diana did. I love Flo, she is my favorite member of the original three but the way I feel...Flo got herself fired. Are you gonna let one of your employees get away with not coming into work, showing up drunk or throwing a drink in your face? Flo wasn't treated right in some circumstances I agree but all 4 of them [[Flo, Diana, Mary and Berry) all played a part in Flo's firing. Flo rebelled, Diana tattled, Mary was a two faced bitch and Berry instigated. Also I think a lot of people forget Flo and Diana were still friends after she left the group, someone posted a while ago about how Diana visited Flo in the early 70s and they chatted for hours and don't forget Diana tried to save Flo's house but Tommy intervened. And don't forget Flo went to Diana months before she died asking her to help her get back into the music industry. Flo's own cousin even said on that recent Unsung special Flo knew she did it to herself and she knew it was her fault she was let go from the group.

[topdiva1]

Still in all - very few like Gordy, Ross, or even Wilson could really want this film made using the Peter Benjaminson book - for it is a great book - that does not show them in a great bright loving light - including Flo at times.

Flo was robbed - regardless of even it she did it to herself - fire her - but pay her - do not cheat her.

[marv2]

Still in all - very few like Gordy, Ross, or even Wilson could really want this film made using the Peter Benjaminson book - for it is a great book - that does not show them in a great bright loving light - including Flo at times.

Flo was robbed - regardless of even it she did it to herself - fire her - but pay her - do not cheat her.

You're right. She was intentionally made to suffer. How someone can defend that is beyond me.

[RossHolloway]

To me Diana Ross [[and Berry Gordy) are survivors. Everything worth telling about the Supreme's has already been told. All the rumors and gossip has already been put out there by her haters. And yet she still rises!! People are still fascinated by her and the time she spent in the Supremes and people all over the world still flock to see her in concert. Motown made lots of singers famous, and alot of those singers and songwriters and producers got very wealth in the process: Smokey Robinson, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Lionel Richie. It launched the careers of many others including people like Michael Jackson, Rick James and Teena Marie. Isn't it interesting that Stevie Wonder has remained with the Motown label for almost 50 years...that has to say something. Not everyone walked away from Motown broke or poor. Many of the original artist can still make a living touring the world from songs that they recorded over 40 years ago! There is nothing that TopDiva or Merv2 can say or write that will EVER change my image of Diana and Berry or the love and respect that I have for them, and all the others connected with Motown. If you wern't there then you don't know what all went on between 1960 - 1970. If you are not Berry, Diana, Mary or Florence then you have no idea what went on behind closed doors. Only those four people know the complete story, the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful. What the Supremes and Motown made for the world continues to live on and lift up all those who respect and honor their work. And I'm at the front of that line.

[marv2]

Captain - you need to reread this book SECRETS OF A SPARROW if you say with authority that "..never once did Diana indicate that Flo was a drunk", here my dear are just a few times in that book that Diana did indicate that Flo Ballard was a drunk.

Page 134

"She [[FLO) went on to hard liquor. Often when we went on stage she would be completely out of it and it seemed as if she just didn't care."

Page 135

"But here we were, as excited as we could be, and then Florence showed up, late and drunk".

"We just saw her [[FLO) as an angry woman who drank too much and wouldn't take responsibility for herself."

page 136

"Florence was drunk and she was yelling and carrying on".

"I didn't want to tell him [[GORDY) how drunk Florence was....."


Now Diana Ross may not of said FLO BALLARD IS A DRUNK - but her above quotes and many others indicate what she felt about Florence Ballard - for more on this subject you need to careful re-read SECRETS OF A SPARROW as do the Ballard sisters. I will close with another Ross quote that truly expresses her feelings from page 136 of her own self written bio,

"At the beginning of 1967, by mutual consent, Florence left the group"

My question - by whose mutual consent - and Flo left or was fired in June/July 1967, how in the hell is that the beginning of 1967.

Ross then continues in her own words on page 136

"Although we were very sad things hadn't worked out with Florence, we a;so breathed a sigh of relief. We were tired of having to cope with her moods and trying to take care of her".

In her own words Diana Ross wrote what she felt as her truth - does she want this on the silver scene - I think not.

INVESTIGATE - before you make statements - Diana Ross may not of called Florence Ballard an out and out bitchy drunk diva - but Diana Ross certainly implied it in this and other incidents.


The only time Diana Ross mentions Florence Ballard, she trashes her. Sad.

[marv2]

To me Diana Ross [[and Berry Gordy) are survivors. Everything worth telling about the Supreme's has already been told. All the rumors and gossip has already been put out there by her haters. And yet she still rises!! People are still fascinated by her and the time she spent in the Supremes and people all over the world still flock to see her in concert. Motown made lots of singers famous, and alot of those singers and songwriters and producers got very wealth in the process: Smokey Robinson, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Lionel Richie. It launched the careers of many others including people like Michael Jackson, Rick James and Teena Marie. Isn't it interesting that Stevie Wonder has remained with the Motown label for almost 50 years...that has to say something. Not everyone walked away from Motown broke or poor. Many of the original artist can still make a living touring the world from songs that they recorded over 40 years ago! There is nothing that TopDiva or Merv2 can say or write that will EVER change my image of Diana and Berry or the love and respect that I have for them, and all the others connected with Motown. If you wern't there then you don't know what all went on between 1960 - 1970. If you are not Berry, Diana, Mary or Florence then you have no idea what went on behind closed doors. Only those four people know the complete story, the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful. What the Supremes and Motown made for the world continues to live on and lift up all those who respect and honor their work. And I'm at the front of that line.

That is my whole point! We are not trying to change your image of Diane. I want you to die loving Diane as you do. I simply want those that believed that the film Dreamgirl was the true story of Florence Ballard to see a film based on her actual life and experiences.

[RossHolloway]

The only time Diana Ross mentions Florence Ballard, she trashes her. Sad.
And everyone who knows the story of the Supremes and Diana Ross knows that's not the truth.

[topdiva1]

The truth and the question is, and I will put it to you again -


DO YOU THINK DIANA ROSS OR BERRY GORDY WOULD LIKE THIS FILM ABOUT FLO BALLARD MADE????????


ANSWERS - ON JUST THAT PLEASE.

I do not believe they want this film made.

[RossHolloway]

The truth and the question is, and I will put it to you again -


DO YOU THINK DIANA ROSS OR BERRY GORDY WOULD LIKE THIS FILM ABOUT FLO BALLARD MADE????????


ANSWERS - ON JUST THAT PLEASE.

I do not believe they want this film made.


But who cares what you think? I'm sure Diana Ross and Berry Gordy could give a rats ass about what you think.

[nomis]

Yup why should they care? plenty of people respect them,I for one...

[marv2]

The truth and the question is, and I will put it to you again -


DO YOU THINK DIANA ROSS OR BERRY GORDY WOULD LIKE THIS FILM ABOUT FLO BALLARD MADE????????


ANSWERS - ON JUST THAT PLEASE.

I do not believe they want this film made.

I don't think they want this film made either just judging by their reaction to the fictional play and film "Dreamgirls". In Flo's movie, they are going to called by their names............!

[simplysupreme]

I just want to know why you people are saying it's wrong for Diana to write about Florence drinking and showing up to gigs hungover but Mary was allowed to do it when she wrote her book? I think Mary writes about Flo being drunk more than Diana did. I love Flo, she is my favorite member of the original three but the way I feel...Flo got herself fired. Are you gonna let one of your employees get away with not coming into work, showing up drunk or throwing a drink in your face? Flo wasn't treated right in some circumstances I agree but all 4 of them [[Flo, Diana, Mary and Berry) all played a part in Flo's firing. Flo rebelled, Diana tattled, Mary was a two faced bitch and Berry instigated. Also I think a lot of people forget Flo and Diana were still friends after she left the group, someone posted a while ago about how Diana visited Flo in the early 70s and they chatted for hours and don't forget Diana tried to save Flo's house but Tommy intervened. And don't forget Flo went to Diana months before she died asking her to help her get back into the music industry. Flo's own cousin even said on that recent Unsung special Flo knew she did it to herself and she knew it was her fault she was let go from the group.

Floy, Floy, Floy, Floy Joy....you're the man!

[marv2]

I just want to know why you people are saying it's wrong for Diana to write about Florence drinking and showing up to gigs hungover but Mary was allowed to do it when she wrote her book? I think Mary writes about Flo being drunk more than Diana did. I love Flo, she is my favorite member of the original three but the way I feel...Flo got herself fired. Are you gonna let one of your employees get away with not coming into work, showing up drunk or throwing a drink in your face? Flo wasn't treated right in some circumstances I agree but all 4 of them [[Flo, Diana, Mary and Berry) all played a part in Flo's firing. Flo rebelled, Diana tattled, Mary was a two faced bitch and Berry instigated. Also I think a lot of people forget Flo and Diana were still friends after she left the group, someone posted a while ago about how Diana visited Flo in the early 70s and they chatted for hours and don't forget Diana tried to save Flo's house but Tommy intervened. And don't forget Flo went to Diana months before she died asking her to help her get back into the music industry. Flo's own cousin even said on that recent Unsung special Flo knew she did it to herself and she knew it was her fault she was let go from the group.

This is Florence speaking here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUwg2xW6PGM

[captainjames]

Yup why should they care? plenty of people respect them,I for one...

ditto me too.

[marv2]

Here is Flo's interview with Dave Diles in Detroit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h26a14BHV2U&feature=related

[sophisticated_soul]

Yup why should they care? plenty of people respect them,I for one...

Me too._____

[ralpht]

RossHolloway,
Regarding your 11:03 post: Well said.

[topdiva1]

But who cares what you think? I'm sure Diana Ross and Berry Gordy could give a rats ass about what you think.


A comment on the thread yes or no would have done very nicely, indeed. - However, I'm sure Diana Ross and Berry Gordy wouldn't give a rats ass about what you or anybody things - that's the problem - they think they are above us, one and all - including you.

[topdiva1]

This is Florence speaking here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUwg2xW6PGM

Since some of you think that Berry Gordy doesn't give a rats ass about this film being made - then he will not mind this segment that will surely be depicted in the film, if made.

And yes - I agree with you - Berry Gordy does not give a rats ass about anyone but himself, not the fans that made him rich, though the performers he cheated, and no, not me, and especially not you. So we are in complete agreement.

[topdiva1]

Here is Flo's interview with Dave Diles in Detroit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h26a14BHV2U&feature=related

Flo states - in her own words - she wanted to be there but couldn't. Flo's own words will show us all just what she thought in the days just before her shocking death.

[marybrewster]

RossHolloway; that was a brilliant, well thought-out post. Not once did you feel the need to drag others down to bring other up.

Thank you.

[topdiva1]

But who cares what you think? I'm sure Diana Ross and Berry Gordy could give a rats ass about what you think.



Don't be so sure that they don't care what people think about them. The whole image of Motown was built on what Gordy made people think his company was - and you did not find out different until the 70's when people really started to talk from within. But sure your right - Diana and Gordy along with many stars do not gave a rats ass - as you so nicely put it about thefans - just the fans money and what it could buy themselves.

"What money can't buy I can't use" by Berry Gordy -

So I vote Hell No - Diane and Berry do not want any film made - even a fake story like Dreamgirls - that could be mistaken for themselves and the things they did and did not do. Not tearing these two great people down - just saving look at the B side.

[blueskies]

RossHolloway; that was a brilliant, well thought-out post. Not once did you feel the need to drag others down to bring other up.

Thank you.

Excellent and ditto!

[jobeterob]

Excellent and ditto!

Ross & Mary & Ralph......................Excellent and Ditto.

Ross, where have you been all these years?

[marv2]

Don't be so sure that they don't care what people think about them. The whole image of Motown was built on what Gordy made people think his company was - and you did not find out different until the 70's when people really started to talk from within. But sure your right - Diana and Gordy along with many stars do not gave a rats ass - as you so nicely put it about thefans - just the fans money and what it could buy themselves.

"What money can't buy I can't use" by Berry Gordy -

So I vote Hell No - Diane and Berry do not want any film made - even a fake story like Dreamgirls - that could be mistaken for themselves and the things they did and did not do. Not tearing these two great people down - just saving look at the B side.

I vote NO, they would not want a film about Florence Ballard made.

[RossHolloway]

Ross & Mary & Ralph......................Excellent and Ditto.

Ross, where have you been all these years?

I've been here. I just don't usually join in negative discussions; I love Motown too much for that. I think if we can all stay strong and take the high road and steer clear of the negativity we can all make SoulfulDetroit what it once was- a great place to share memories, information and facts and music. If you leave a crying baby alone long enough, it will eventually cry itself to sleep.

[topdiva1]

I've been here. I just don't usually join in negative discussions; I love Motown too much for that. I think if we can all stay strong and take the high road and steer clear of the negativity we can all make SoulfulDetroit what it once was- a great place to share memories, information and facts and music. If you leave a crying baby alone long enough, it will eventually cry itself to sleep.

While the baby may cry itself to sleep - it may never have the knowledge to answer a simple question. A question that does not in any way taint any further the legend of Berry Gordy's Motown.

[sophisticated_soul]

I've been here. I just don't usually join in negative discussions; I love Motown too much for that. I think if we can all stay strong and take the high road and steer clear of the negativity we can all make SoulfulDetroit what it once was- a great place to share memories, information and facts and music. If you leave a crying baby alone long enough, it will eventually cry itself to sleep.

Thank you Ross. When I read your earlier post I was very moved. As was stated before not once did you feel the need to bring someone down to lift some else up. I thought you wonderful words were eloquent and fair. But I also though they would likely fall on deaf ears. I am very happy to stand corrected. Thank you for being willing to stand up against the negativity that is bringing such harm to the forum. I thank you and offer my support.

[marv2]

- The truth will set you free!
- You cannot add or take away from the truth!
- You cannot hide from the truth, it is pure, it is divine, it will blind you!
- Negativity in this case was born out of the actions of several of the main subjects discussed here.
- There are those that do not like to hear the Gospel, so they stay away. They do not like to hear it because it causes them pain and is prohibitive towards some things in life that bring them pleasure, moral or immoral.
- Sweeping dirt under the rug, does not make your house clean!
- Hating the messenger or message of truth is fundementally wrong.
- Pretending to be offended where there was nothing profane is disingenuous!
- I have more respect for an honest thief, than I do for a liar!
- Karma, the law of moral causation- humans have free will to choose good or evil and suffer the consequences, which require the will of God to implement karma's consequences [[have mercy!) You reap what you sow, good or bad!

and finally, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig!

[topdiva1]

People - we have a lot of thoughts here - but few "YES" or "NO" answers - to the question.

[jobeterob]

Opinions and discussions are always welcome and variety and diverse opinions are the spice of life and educate us all.

But the negativity drives many people away.

Berry Gordy and Diana Ross are the people responsible for bringing R & B to Middle America and Britain and Canada. They are the people that tuned the world in to Billie Holiday.

And we are reduced to calling them "pigs"? It is not what you hear from their colleagues. Discussions are warranted but not something verging on "hate mail".

Something is wrong here in a couple of respects.