Video Biography of THE SUPREMES

[milven]

Just found this video biography of The Supremes on Youtube. The narrator sounds young , but she did an excellent job with the video and covers the group from beginning to end including the replacement Supremes.

She mentions their solo careers after they left the Supremes. She neglected to mention Lady Sings The Blues which was an important part of Diana's solo career. She mentions Flo's failure at ABC Records and she says that Mary tried to launch a solo recording career but that record companies were just not interested. She says that in spite of that , Mary managed to keep singing all over the world and wrote a bestselling book about her life as a Supreme.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNjiVFropRc

[jobeterob]

I wondered if the Supremes split up today rather than in 1970, if Mary or Florence could have had a successful career with hits.

Kelly Rowland hasn't been as successful as Beyoncé but she has been much more successful than Mary, Florence, Nona Hendryx or Sarah Dash.

Or are their voices not commercial enough to be successful?

[antceleb12]

I wondered if the Supremes split up today rather than in 1970, if Mary or Florence could have had a successful career with hits.

Kelly Rowland hasn't been as successful as Beyoncé but she has been much more successful than Mary, Florence, Nona Hendryx or Sarah Dash.

Or are their voices not commercial enough to be successful?

It seems Florence had a host of problems that went beyond commercial sound that hindered her career. Not only as she legally forbidden to use the Supremes' name to help her, but she also had Tommy Chapman as a manager, the ailing ABC records which did little, if anything, to promote her singles, a full-throttle battle with alcoholism and depression, a pregnancy, legal battles with Motown, and lackluster material. The gigs she got were, for the most part, rather dismal and unexciting, and after a while, she lacked the motivation. Part of it also had to do with the fact that she wasn't Diana Ross, who, even considering her stardom as the lead Supreme, had a slow start to her solo career.

For Mary, she had all the motivation in the world, but it seemed she couldn't [[or didn't want to) get away from the Supremes sound. By the time she went solo, she was 35 [[it seems that most record companies are more eager to sign and promote an artist who is youngER and more appealing to the target youth audience - who, by now, had little interest in the Supremes). She also lacked the stage presence Diana did, was not a songwriter, and did not have the strongest voice for commercial pop.

Don't etch that in stone, that is just my guess. :)

[rod_rick]

It seems Florence had a host of problems that went beyond commercial sound that hindered her career. Not only as she legally forbidden to use the Supremes' name to help her, but she also had Tommy Chapman as a manager, the ailing ABC records which did little, if anything, to promote her singles, a full-throttle battle with alcoholism and depression, a pregnancy, legal battles with Motown, and lackluster material. The gigs she got were, for the most part, rather dismal and unexciting, and after a while, she lacked the motivation. Part of it also had to do with the fact that she wasn't Diana Ross, who, even considering her stardom as the lead Supreme, had a slow start to her solo career.

For Mary, she had all the motivation in the world, but it seemed she couldn't [[or didn't want to) get away from the Supremes sound. By the time she went solo, she was 35 [[it seems that most record companies are more eager to sign and promote an artist who is youngER and more appealing to the target youth audience - who, by now, had little interest in the Supremes). She also lacked the stage presence Diana did, was not a songwriter, and did not have the strongest voice for commercial pop.

Don't etch that in stone, that is just my guess. :)

I always felt that Mary really had the potential but it took to long for her to find her true voice. Early on I feel Mary had the voice but lost it on the way because she was searching for a distinct sound. Had she stayed with the Supremes [[Scherrie, Susaye, or Cindy) with the right production she could have horned her craft and would have been a force. Never thought Mary lacked stage presence sometime she could be a bit over the top but out of all the ladies I think she is the one that come closet to Diana's stage presence, just compare Mary to any of the other ladies on stage.

[marv2]

Mary had/has tremendous stage presence. She can pretty much sing anything. In her case, no recording company could seem to meet her requirements.

Florence had the goods also. She was dogged from day one, every step of the way in her brief solo career. She was not given the right songs, nor was she produced correctly. Not being able to say that she was a Supreme, really hurt her.

[BigAl]

Despite some omissions, it's a nicely done, concise history. It does sound as though the narrator [[and perhaps the creator?) is quite young, which leads me to wonder if this perhaps was a school project. If it was, I hope she aced it!

[milven]

Mary had/has tremendous stage presence. She can pretty much sing anything. In her case, no recording company could seem to meet her requirements.


Mary has tremendous stage presence. In every configuration of the Supremes, I always kept my eyes on her. She continues to have that stage presence. I think what she lacked after she left the Supremes was confidence - which she now has in abundance.

As for no record company not meeting her requirements, I think that is an exaggeration. She would have been happy with any record company that would release her music. And it would be even more happy if the company didn't close down after releasing her music

[milven]

Despite some omissions, it's a nicely done, concise history. It does sound as though the narrator [[and perhaps the creator?) is quite young, which leads me to wonder if this perhaps was a school project. If it was, I hope she aced it!

I had the same thought. If she put the whole thing together for a school project, she did a great job and shoud have gotten an "A".

[marv2]

As for no record company not meeting her requirements, I think that is an exaggeration. She would have been happy with any record company that would release her music. And it would be even more happy if the company didn't close down after releasing her music

I know EXACTLY what I am talking about and will stand by what I said here earlier......

[jobeterob]

I agree with Rod that Mary had the most stage presence next to Diana; at least she developed it the most over time; and confidence definitely was a factor in the early years; and then management.

But I don't know if any of the women I mentioned, Sarah, Nona, Florence, Mary, or also Cindy, had the kind of voice that would have attracted radio play and enough attention to have hit records and become a major star. ~ even if there hadn't been confidence, presence, and management issues.

[marv2]

I agree with Rod that Mary had the most stage presence next to Diana; at least she developed it the most over time; and confidence definitely was a factor in the early years; and then management.

But I don't know if any of the women I mentioned, Sarah, Nona, Florence, Mary, or also Cindy, had the kind of voice that would have attracted radio play and enough attention to have hit records and become a major star. ~ even if there hadn't been confidence, presence, and management issues.

All of them had great voices. There have been hundreds of female singers with different types of sounding voices that have made popular music. Some of them have sounded very similar to the ladies you list here.

[milven]

I know EXACTLY what I am talking about and will stand by what I said here earlier......

My statement was only an opinion. But since you know EXACTLY what you are talking about, I will defer to you, Marv-the Be All, Know All. At least you didn't call me stupid :rolleyes:

[floyjoy678]

I always thought Florence had a distinct voice and at times sounded similar to Diana, you could at least always pick her out in the background. There are some early songs where I wasn't able to tell if it was Diana or Florence singing. All three original Supremes had great stage presence IMO, I paid attention to all 3 of them equally and got to know their individual personalities just by watching them perform.

[antceleb12]

Mary had/has tremendous stage presence. She can pretty much sing anything. In her case, no recording company could seem to meet her requirements.

I just meant that she didn't have the same kind of presence that Diana did. In my opinion, I don't think Mary had that "superstar" quality - which isn't a bad thing, it's just not commercial.

[marv2]

I just meant that she didn't have the same kind of presence that Diana did. In my opinion, I don't think Mary had that "superstar" quality - which isn't a bad thing, it's just not commercial.

and Diane does not have the same kind of presence that Mary has. Mary also did not have her boyfriend and owner of the company they worked for pushing her out front.

[antceleb12]

and Diane does not have the same kind of presence that Mary has. Mary also did not have her boyfriend and owner of the company they worked for pushing her out front.

You're right. She didn't. But Gordy saw something in Diana that he didn't think Mary or Flo had. I love Mary, but I don't think she has the same presence as Diana. And I'm not a huge Diana fan, either. It's just an opinion.

[marv2]

You're right. She didn't. But Gordy saw something in Diana that he didn't think Mary or Flo had. I love Mary, but I don't think she has the same presence as Diana. And I'm not a huge Diana fan, either. It's just an opinion.

I feel the opposite. The two of them on a stage and my focus will be on Mary all the time. Just my preference......."Motown 25"..........

[Roberta75]

I feel the opposite. The two of them on a stage and my focus will be on Mary all the time. Just my preference......."Motown 25"..........

Thats real odd because your focus on this forum is mostly on Diane.
Just my obsevations......."Almost Every Thread You Post In"............

Roberta

[jobeterob]

It has to be a lot more than presence or looks. Before an "it" factor kicks in, there has to be a voice that attracts attention.

Does anyone remember the "oooooooohhhhhhhh, ooooooooooohhhhhhhhh" before Baby Love? Instantly memorable, distinctive, and remarkable.

I don't think it was there in any of the women mentioned other than Diana; it isn't there in Scherrie or Lynda either.

But that distinctive voice was there in Aretha and Whitney. And then Whitney had the rest of the package for a while.

[rod_rick]

It has to be a lot more than presence or looks. Before an "it" factor kicks in, there has to be a voice that attracts attention.

Does anyone remember the "oooooooohhhhhhhh, ooooooooooohhhhhhhhh" before Baby Love? Instantly memorable, distinctive, and remarkable.

I don't think it was there in any of the women mentioned other than Diana; it isn't there in Scherrie or Lynda either.

But that distinctive voice was there in Aretha and Whitney. And then Whitney had the rest of the package for a while.

That's exactly what I meant when I said Mary had to find her voice. Diana didn't have it right away but she was allowed the time to find it through the Berry and the producers, Mary wasn't afforded that opportunity until much later. Don't know if you heard her current track on itunes "Johnnie Mae" but that's the voice Mary should have had way back when she left the group in 77. I have a recording of a show Mary did in 77 or 78 Karen Jackson and Karen Ragland are her backing vocalist. The show sound like MSS show because Driving Wheel, You're What's Missing, Let My Heart Do The Walking Let Yourself Go, Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You, were all in this show Stoned Love Mary's solo numbers and plenty of 60's hits thrown in. Mary sang lead on 90% of the songs. Karen Jackson did Baby Love and Let My Heart Do The Walkin, and Hagland did Where Did Our Love go. Anyway Mary did a great job on her leads and was in good voice for the entire show. Id she had been trained very early on as a lead vocalist and allowed the time to find her voice she would have made a fantastic solo artist in the late 70's early 80's imo.

[smark21]

Let’s not also forget the song. IF the song doesn’t appeal, then it doesn’t matter how commercial the voice may be or how strong the stage presence. Diana Ross’s voice, in fact no one’s voice, could have made hits out of songs like “Red Hot”, “I Had to Fall in Love” or “Love Ain’t Love”. People who think it’s the voice and the voice alone that makes a hit song have at best a shallow and superficial understanding of music.

[marv2]

Let’s not also forget the song. IF the song doesn’t appeal, then it doesn’t matter how commercial the voice may be or how strong the stage presence. Diana Ross’s voice, in fact no one’s voice, could have made hits out of songs like “Red Hot”, “I Had to Fall in Love” or “Love Ain’t Love”. People who think it’s the voice and the voice alone that makes a hit song have at best a shallow and superficial understanding of music.

Very true and right on all counts!

[jobeterob]

Yes, without decent material, you haven't got a chance.

That leads to the next question: if Mary Wilson had recognized Borderline for a hit and recorded it before Madonna got to it, would it have been successful?

I know this is a wudda, shudda, cudda; maybe it's best left a rhetorical question?

I notice there are no comments about Sarah, Nona, Cindy or any other unsuccessful former group members.

[floyjoy678]

Does anyone remember the "oooooooohhhhhhhh, ooooooooooohhhhhhhhh" before Baby Love? Instantly memorable, distinctive, and remarkable.

I agree and I also feel that way when I hear that desperate and booming voice going "Come see about me-e!".

[Methuselah2]

I'd have to say that at any given moment, any aspect of a recording can be what makes it a hit. And it's the public that will decide exactly what that aspect is.

[reese]

Yes, without decent material, you haven't got a chance.

That leads to the next question: if Mary Wilson had recognized Borderline for a hit and recorded it before Madonna got to it, would it have been successful?

I know this is a wudda, shudda, cudda; maybe it's best left a rhetorical question?

I notice there are no comments about Sarah, Nona, Cindy or any other unsuccessful former group members.

For me, it is a combination of the singer and the song, not to mention promotion, and just good old fashioned luck. So I don't subscribe to the theory that a song will be a hit for whomever sings it. Myself, I don't hear Mary singing BORDERLINE [[or was it HOLIDAY?), but that could because Madonna's original is so ingrained in my mind.

Re Sarah and Cindy, I think they both have nice voices, but I enjoy them more as group members than as soloists. On the other hand, I think Nona has a really great sound as a soloist, and I like quite a few of her recordings.

[rod_rick]

Yes, without decent material, you haven't got a chance.

That leads to the next question: if Mary Wilson had recognized Borderline for a hit and recorded it before Madonna got to it, would it have been successful?

I know this is a wudda, shudda, cudda; maybe it's best left a rhetorical question?

I notice there are no comments about Sarah, Nona, Cindy or any other unsuccessful former group members.

Out of Sarah, Nona, & Cindy I feel that Nona had the best potential and over all package. There are a few threads on the forum regarding some things that Sarah has done, but I don't get the hoopla around Sarah. I remember reading she made the comment regarding Cindy's voice as mono tone, I feel the same about hers. I tried to get into her music back in the day but her voice was not unique or special imo. There is a clip where she joined Nona on stage, she did not sound good to me, just my opinion. As for Cindy I don't think she trusted her chest voice. Had she developed the sound she used when she sang the bit part on Love The One You're With she should gone further with her solo career. I like the single she did Dancing Room as well, that was a good production again imo.

[jobeterob]

For me, it is a combination of the singer and the song, not to mention promotion, and just good old fashioned luck. So I don't subscribe to the theory that a song will be a hit for whomever sings it. Myself, I don't hear Mary singing BORDERLINE [[or was it HOLIDAY?), but that could because Madonna's original is so ingrained in my mind.

Agree. It needs to be the right voice, the right song, and the right time, with a dose of luck. There are a lot of exceptional singers out there that never have a hit record.

And I think the song might have been Holiday.

[carole cucumber]

That's exactly what I meant when I said Mary had to find her voice. .... I have a recording of a show Mary did in 77 or 78 Karen Jackson and Karen Ragland are her backing vocalist.. .....Mary sang lead on 90% of the songs. Karen Jackson did Baby Love and Let My Heart Do The Walkin, and Hagland did Where Did Our Love go.

Just curious.... HAGLAND... typo? or slip of the tongue?

[jobeterob]

I saw that. Pretty funny and my guess that it was deliberate.

It's pretty hard for any kind of Motown fan or Supremes fan to think she won a lawsuit against Mary.