Martha and the Vandellas on Swingin' Time 1967

[floyjoy678]

Found these clips on YouTube, must have been early '67 since Betty is still with the group.

Jimmy Mack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSWBcI2KI4o

I'm Ready For Love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQbCsQFOuzA

My Baby Loves Me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKJ6i0j01EY

[theboyfromxtown]

Gasp! What a great find. Well done

[Kamasu_Jr]

We have this show in the music library. If you notice they look as they did on the cover of their LIVE album. They were appearing at the 20 Grand. My mother says they wore the same dresses [pink with silver around the necklines] during their afternoon shows at the Fox Theater in 1967, only Lois Reeves had inherited Betty Kelly's.

[RossHolloway]

Are we sure that's Betty Kelly and not a mirage?

[midnight johnny]

are we sure that's betty kelly and not a mirage?


excellent!!!

[floyjoy678]

Are we sure that's Betty Kelly and not a mirage?

LOL I actually wasn't sure when I first watched the clips, at first I thought it was Lois but there are a couple of up close shots of the Vandellas and it's definitely Betty and Rosalind. Also I just noticed that it says March 1967 for the episode and Betty didn't get canned till a couple of more months later.

[bradsupremes]

Are there any video clips of Roz and Lois? I've seen numerous pictures of them from various TV appearances, but no clips have shown up on youtube.

[LuvHangOva]

Wow!! Nicely executed. The ladies came a looooooong in just a few years!! Compare these performances with the one linked below. Apparently they had been
"Workin Overtime" with Cholly Atkins and Maxine Powell!! Looks like they even engaged the services of "Gregory", The Supremes' wig stylist by this point


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XE2fnYpwrng&feature=youtube_gdata_player [[http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XE2fnYpwrng&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

[Kamasu_Jr]

Are there any video clips of Roz and Lois? I've seen numerous pictures of them from various TV appearances, but no clips have shown up on youtube.
Yes. There's were TV appearances with Martha, Roz & Lois on the Mike Douglas Show and the Joey Bishop Show, Operation Entertainment, etc.

[smark21]

Great clips. Betty is a very engaging performer, she caught my eye. I hope some more vintage and maybe lost Motown performances resurface soon. Especially The Marvelettes’ performing “I’ll Keep Holding On” which they did on some TV show.

[marv2]

Excellent find Floyjoy,. Thanks!

[westgrandboulevard]

I'm very much enjoying these clips too, floyjoy678.

Watching the recent MR&V clips posted here, Rosalind and Betty seem to change places for different songs, which hadn't registered with me before.

I agree with smark21, while Rosalind always has great presence, Betty also comes over very well in the later clips. More 'lost' performances please [[and especially The Marvelettes "I'll Keep Holding On" - they certainly lip-synched to it on 'Ready,Steady,Go!' over here in the UK, but I've not seen it since)

[RossHolloway]

Can anyone explain why exactly Betty Kelly got fired from the group? I've never read any details of what happened between Betty and Martha.

[motony]

the one of "Heat Wave" was from 4 years earlier so ofcourse they would be more seasoned as performers on TV, styles changed quickly back then too. Thanks for posting these. Martha & her group are one of the greatest groups in Rock & Soul history. They were really great LIVE!

[Methuselah2]

Floy, Floy, Floy . . . Floyjoy678! Ooo-wee! I'm ready right now . . . I'm ready right now! Sensational!

[cheekylincs]

What a great find - thanks for posting floyjoy678 - never seen these before and thrilled to watch them!

[BayouMotownMan]

How great. Martha was certainly polished and even particiapted in the choreography. Those Vandellas could execute the Cholly Atkins moves with such grace and sexiness.

[marv2]

Can anyone explain why exactly Betty Kelly got fired from the group? I've never read any details of what happened between Betty and Martha.

Yeah! hehehehehehehe.........

[floyjoy678]

Can anyone explain why exactly Betty Kelly got fired from the group? I've never read any details of what happened between Betty and Martha.

Let's see, in Martha's autobiography [[which I haven't read in a LONG time) she said something like a guy she was dating began dating the Vandellas' hairdresser or something like that and Betty pretty much sided with the hairdresser against Martha. I'm glad everyone enjoyed the clips. The Marvelettes and the Vandellas always used some good choreography for their songs and the Supremes...well...they tried lol.

[smark21]

As I recall from Martha’s autobiography, she wrote that tensions had grown between she and Betty and that she had to fire Betty so she wouldn’t have to get violent with Betty. Charming.

[bradsupremes]

Isn't it strange both Betty and Roz were fired by Martha and not Motown. Weren't they signed to Motown and not Martha? Shouldn't it have been Berry or Motown's job to let them go? When did Martha have complete control over the group?

And why was Roz fired again? After she was gone, it wasn't the Vandellas anymore. She was to the Vandellas what Mary Wilson was to the Supremes.

[reese]

Isn't it strange both Betty and Roz were fired by Martha and not Motown. Weren't they signed to Motown and not Martha? Shouldn't it have been Berry or Motown's job to let them go? When did Martha have complete control over the group?

And why was Roz fired again? After she was gone, it wasn't the Vandellas anymore. She was to the Vandellas what Mary Wilson was to the Supremes.

Rosalind used to peek in from time to time. Maybe she answered these questions a while back.

But it seems that Martha might have had control from the very start of their Motown career. I think the Del-Fis had broken up when Martha started working at the company, and she brought Gloria, Annette, and Rosalind in when Marvin Gaye needed backup. In the LIVE WIRE! set notes, it says before Berry released the Vandellas' first single, he gave Martha first-name billing in case one of the other girls quit. Maybe it was at this same time that she became responsible for paying them. She has said that her need for backup singers was more of a need for companionship on the road as opposed to them being a true group.

In her book, Martha wrote that Rosalind started dating another performer who encouraged her to deviate from their show scripts, both with her patter and with the notes that she sang. Martha wrote that she was never sure what Rosalind was going to do from show to show, was tired of battling with her onstage, and asked her to "find something else to do with her life."

In an interview with A TOUCH OF CLASSIC SOUL. Rosalind says that she was called to the Motown offices and told that Martha didn't want to sing with her anymore, but she was never able to speak with Martha about it. According to Martha, she ended up suing and winning a settlement.

Of course, there are three sides to every story.

[floyjoy678]

I don't think Rosalind was too happy about Betty's firing either and began acting out about that. She was so used to performing with Betty by that time and now she had to do it all over again with a new girl for the 3rd time.

[marv2]

We use to watch "Swingin' Time" on CKLW Channel 9 out of Windsor, Ontario when I was a kid. This brings back some good, good memories.

[jillfoster]

Isn't it strange both Betty and Roz were fired by Martha and not Motown. Weren't they signed to Motown and not Martha? Shouldn't it have been Berry or Motown's job to let them go? When did Martha have complete control over the group?

And why was Roz fired again? After she was gone, it wasn't the Vandellas anymore. She was to the Vandellas what Mary Wilson was to the Supremes.

Martha was always in charge of who sang with her, that's why for most of us Martha fans, the Vandellas changing haven't been that big of a deal, because they weren't a group in the sense that The Supremes were. Having said that, I don't particularly care to see ANY Vandellas lineup that does not include Lois. None compares to her. PERIOD.

[rod_rick]

Martha was always in charge of who sang with her, that's why for most of us Martha fans, the Vandellas changing haven't been that big of a deal, because they weren't a group in the sense that The Supremes were. Having said that, I don't particularly care to see ANY Vandellas lineup that does not include Lois. None compares to her. PERIOD.

Vocally Roz and Annett had the best blend out of all the Vandella grouping but visually Sandy and Lois could really get down, those ladies had some moves, I just don't know what they sound like

[motown_david]

Yes, the group was signed to Motown directly and so it was Motown who fired them. I've seen Annette Helton's Motown contract and she was signed to the company, as was Roz, anad so were employees of Motown not Martha. After an initial trial period, it was the same for Betty. However, later on Martha obviously had sway with Berry and so she requested they be removed from the group. Annette, Roz and Betty still receive royalties from their recordings with the group, which again proves that they were Motown employees. Not sure if it was the same for Lois and Sandy though. Lois did once tell me that she doesn't receive royalites from Motown so maybe big sister employed her directly.

[nosey]

Question: Are Rosalind & Betty singing on the records or is it the Andantes?

[jillfoster]

Yes, the group was signed to Motown directly and so it was Motown who fired them. I've seen Annette Helton's Motown contract and she was signed to the company, as was Roz, anad so were employees of Motown not Martha. After an initial trial period, it was the same for Betty. However, later on Martha obviously had sway with Berry and so she requested they be removed from the group. Annette, Roz and Betty still receive royalties from their recordings with the group, which again proves that they were Motown employees. Not sure if it was the same for Lois and Sandy though. Lois did once tell me that she doesn't receive royalites from Motown so maybe big sister employed her directly.

There's a difference between the recordings and the touring. Like Susaye said at tone time "A record company just does not let you record for them without a contract", and that is very true, but she also said that all live appearances were handled through Mary's "Supremes, Inc.", so essentially she half worked for Motown, half worked for Mary. And you might have seen Annette's contract, but Martha's contract may well have given her the power to hire and fire at will.

[Kamasu_Jr]

Question: Are Rosalind & Betty singing on the records or is it the Andantes?
I'd say Annette, Rosilind and Betty sang on the records from 1963 to 1965. You can hear Betty on Nowhere to Run. Martha & the Vandellas' Live album has them singing with Martha and some of the live songs sounded pretty much like the studio recordings.

[floyjoy678]

Songs like "Jimmy Mack" and "You've Been In Love Too Long" feature both Rosalind, Betty and the Andantes. Then songs like "Love Makes Me Do Foolish Things" and "I'm Ready For Love" are just the Andantes. "Love Bug Leave My Heart Alone" and "Nowhere to Run" are just Rosalind and Betty.

[RossHolloway]

Wasn't Jimmy Mack first cut on the group in 1964? Did they recut background vocals when the single was released? Would Annette or Betty be on background on JM?

I seem to recall reading that the first song that Betty recorded with the Vandellas was Dancing in the Street, which according to DFTMC was cut on June 29, 1964. DFTMC also states that JM the version[[#3) that appeared on the LP was cut June 18, 1964 and also list it as being re-recorded on January 17, 1967 [[version #4) and that is the version that was used on the 45. So is it Annette on the 3rd version and the Andantes on the 45 version or is it Rosalind and Betty on the 45?

[theboyfromxtown]

In the earliest days of SDF, Russ Terrana told the story of the re-cut Jimmy Mack. I am not able to find it in the original archives but if anyone else can, it might make the position a little clearer.

[supremester]

These are gold - thank you!

[marv2]

Wasn't Jimmy Mack first cut on the group in 1964? Did they recut background vocals when the single was released? Would Annette or Betty be on background on JM?

I seem to recall reading that the first song that Betty recorded with the Vandellas was Dancing in the Street, which according to DFTMC was cut on June 29, 1964. DFTMC also states that JM the version[[#3) that appeared on the LP was cut June 18, 1964 and also list it as being re-recorded on January 17, 1967 [[version #4) and that is the version that was used on the 45. So is it Annette on the 3rd version and the Andantes on the 45 version or is it Rosalind and Betty on the 45?

Ross you are right about "Jimmy Mack". It was originally recorded in 1964 when Annette was still in the group. She says that she sang on it. It was perhaps remixed [[the instrumentals) for the later release. I am not sure about the last part, but am pretty sure it was recorded with Annette.

[marv2]

Wasn't Jimmy Mack first cut on the group in 1964? Did they recut background vocals when the single was released? Would Annette or Betty be on background on JM?

I seem to recall reading that the first song that Betty recorded with the Vandellas was Dancing in the Street, which according to DFTMC was cut on June 29, 1964. DFTMC also states that JM the version[[#3) that appeared on the LP was cut June 18, 1964 and also list it as being re-recorded on January 17, 1967 [[version #4) and that is the version that was used on the 45. So is it Annette on the 3rd version and the Andantes on the 45 version or is it Rosalind and Betty on the 45?

That cannot be the Andantes on version #4 as you call it because I can hear Roz very clearly.

[bradsupremes]

The single version features Roz, Annette and the Andantes. The Andantes were added just to do the ooo's and ahh's. Roz and Annette sing everything else.

It's been stated the Andantes were on "Honey Chile," but it's clearly Roz and Lois. In fact, I think it's the only song I've heard Roz and Lois. Everything else seems to be the Andantes after that.

[floyjoy678]

Yup, Martha wanted her sister to be featured on her first single as a Vandella and I can hear Rosalind pretty good back there as well. Pretty much after that song the rest of the Martha and Vandellas discography consists mainly of Martha and the Andantes. Lois and Sandra only sang on a handful of songs throughout their line-up.

[I ♥ The Supremes and Temptations]

WOW.....I never saw these videos
Thanks so much!