I Hear A Symphony / A Lover's Concerto Chronology

[nabob]

The issue of which came first has probably been discussed several times over. Since I'm in need of correcting, I'll tell what I think I know and let the experts chime in to set the record straight.

I Hear a Symphony was written before A Lover's Concerto hit the charts. The initial release of I Hear a Symphony had been planned on the Isley Brothers. The Supremes subsequently recorded their version as a response to the success of the Toys' release and received the nod for the initial Motown release of the song.

Please help me straighten the chronology of events. Thanks

[reese]

According to the notes in THE COMPLETE MOTOWN SINGLES: 1965, I HEAR A SYMPHONY was rush-released after Berry Gordy heard the demo, and instructed HDH to get the record out ASAP. Eddie Holland recalls that he was still writing the lyrics while he was teaching Diana the song. The record was released a week later.

A LOVER'S CONCERTO was released the same week that SYMPHONY was recorded.

[jobeterob]

So, was it all coincidental and accidental? No one had knowledge of the other before they were successful??


I Hear A Symphony is one of the Supremes songs that it has been suggested did not sell well. I think that is another of the fallacies surrounding the Supremes. The album was one of their biggest hits and I'm sure it had to be driven by that single ~ especially in the 60's. I just don't believe there is accurate sales information out there about it.

[supremester]

I Hear A Symphony was the fastest selling single out of the box in Supremes history 39-12-5-1........amazing by any standard [[and leaping over A Lover's Concerto while hitting #1) It's runner up? You Keep Me Hangin' On 68-27-7-1...... It's runner-up? Love Child 43-19-9-4-3-3-2-1-1-2-2-3........... impressive. Note that Symphony and Hangin' - the fastest climbers are not, and were not, the biggest hits. Neither delivered the needed punch to make their albums sell as well as WDOLG or A Go Go. YKMHO was buoyed by following the mega hit YCHL, and airplay was wild from the start for the great record, but popularity was way behind it. Symphony, following Nothing But Heartaches flew solely on it's own merits and at times, supplants YCHL as my Supreme fave.

[roger]

I Hear a Symphony was written before A Lover's Concerto hit the charts. The initial release of I Hear a Symphony had been planned on the Isley Brothers. The Supremes subsequently recorded their version as a response to the success of the Toys' release and received the nod for the initial Motown release of the song.

Some Motown discographies [[notably the one in Sharon Davis's book "Motown The History") have a vaulted version of THE ISLEY BROTHERS version of "I Hear A Symphony" being scheduled for release as VIP 25020 in July/August 1965. If such a release existed it would have been recorded at least a month before the version by THE SUPREMES.

However the notes that accompany TCMS6 state that THE ISLEY BROTHERS version [[released as the "B" side of "I Guess I'll Always Love You" in June 1966) wasn't recorded until March 1966.

Roger

[Motown4Ever518]

I Hear A Symphony was the fastest selling single out of the box in Supremes history 39-12-5-1........amazing by any standard [[and leaping over A Lover's Concerto while hitting #1) It's runner up? You Keep Me Hangin' On 68-27-7-1...... It's runner-up? Love Child 43-19-9-4-3-3-2-1-1-2-2-3........... impressive. Note that Symphony and Hangin' - the fastest climbers are not, and were not, the biggest hits. Neither delivered the needed punch to make their albums sell as well as WDOLG or A Go Go. YKMHO was buoyed by following the mega hit YCHL, and airplay was wild from the start for the great record, but popularity was way behind it. Symphony, following Nothing But Heartaches flew solely on it's own merits and at times, supplants YCHL as my Supreme fave.

Without a doubt my favorite Super Supreme song. Though I do like Remove This Doubt. Pun not wholeheartedly intended. Great chart information suprememeister! I am just floored by how quickly the song raced up the charts. By the way, A Lovers Concerto is not on the same planet as IHAS. A good song with a very good concept however.

[BayouMotownMan]

Symphony was a big hit but indeed likely did not hit the million-selling mark. Most believe that because a song went No. 1 that is was a million seller. It is actually how long the song stayed in the upper regions of the chart. Symphony soared fast and dropped just as quickly so the sales were limited to several good weeks.

Case in point is 1967. The Supremes had two No. 1 hits with Love Is Here and The Happening. In fact, Motown's biggest selling song that year was Gladys's Heard It Through The Grapevine [[peak No. 2). Also outselling those two Supremes hits was Smokey [[I Second That Emotion, No. 4), Stevie I Was Made To Love Her [[No. 2), Supremes own Reflections [[No. 2) and Martha's Jimmy Mack [[No. 10).

In 1966 three Motown songs hit No. 1, You Can't Hurry Love, You Keep Me Hangin' On and Reach Out I'll Be There. But the biggest chart performer and best selling Motown single of 1966 was Jimmy Ruffin's What Become Of The Brokenhearted [[Peak No. 8).

[supremester]

Well, I kind of agree with you, but kind of not also. There is no hard and fast rule. Records could climb very quickly because of airplay, sales or both. In the case of IHAS, debuting at 39, it was already in heavy rotation from the start. to zoom to 12, it had to have very strong sales - unusually strong to get to #1 so fast. Chart position doesn't mean as much as the competition. Love Child could have been #1 for 6 weeks if not for two huge records during it's run. 2 weeks at #1 and it still outsold all other 2 week #1's, I'm sure. I believe IHAS did sell over a million. Singles back then often had a long after chart sales period. After radio dropped it, they still sold - especially if there was no album yet. My guess is that IHAS did around 1.3 - 1.5. No way to know for sure. As for Jimmy Ruffin: I don't believe it outsold YCHL and I know it did not out perform it chartwise by any barometer.

[smark21]

Does anyone know what role payola played in The Supremes doing so well on the charts?

[johnjeb]

Although I Hear A Symphony made its' debut at #39 on October 30, 1965 it was "Bubbling Under" the Hot 100 at #101 the week prior.

[[101), 39, 12, 5, 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, 20, 30

Symphony's brief 10-week chart run may have more to do with the holidays than with public disinterest. It dropped from the Top 10 to #20 on December 25, 1965 and it's last appearance was at #30 January 1, 1966. My World Is Empty Without You made its' chart debut two weeks later January 15, 1966 at #78.

But more importantly, while Symphony was in the Top 10 on its' way to #1 [[11/20) Motown released The Children's Christmas Song/Twinkle Twinkle Little Me [[11/18). Within a month those two songs were #7 and #5, respectively, on the Christmas Charts.

It's possible Symphony's chart life would have been similar to their other #1 hits' chart action of 11 to 14 weeks had it not been for the holidays and/or the almost simultaneous release of their Christmas single.

[jobeterob]

I don't believe there is any definitive factual information on sales.

Songs like We Are the World and Yesterday had short chart runs in their day. But in the 1960's, short chart runs were the norm.

I think I Hear A Symphony and Yesterday both had very short chart runs - like 11 weeks.

I think We Are the World shipped a million records in 3 days or so, so it's chart run was no indication of sales.

And Missing You was almost totally driven by sales; its airplay prevented it from charting much higher than #10. For a while airplay was deleted from some charts and now the Top 100 is an airplay chart.

I would like Berry Gordy or Mike Roshkind or Barney Ales to have answered the sales questions.

I wonder what Ralph knows about sales.

[milven]

Does anyone know what role payola played in The Supremes doing so well on the charts?

Payola in one form or another plays a role with all music on the charts. Although I have no direct knowledge, I doubt that Symphony is an exception to the rule.

[jobeterob]

I wasn't right about We Are the World; it charted for 18 weeks total in the 80's when chart reigns were much longer.

But in the 60's, I noticed Can't Buy Me Love, Ticket to Ride, Eight Days A Week, I Feel Fine, Paperback Writer, and Yellow Submarine all charted for 9, 10 or 11 weeks and most of those were certified gold records - no different from I Hear A Symphony.

So I can't really buy some of the talk, most of it perpetuated out of Randy's book that he then deleted from his update, about certain singles not selling so much. I don't buy it about Stop in the Name of Love or Baby Love either. I will if Berry says it happened.

[supremester]

You can pretty much see from the incredible album sales The Supremes enjoyed that payola was probably not much of a factor, if at all. Of course, it's an odd question since there were obviously no records kept on the subject. The Supremes were a huge act and program directors would naturally add their records ASAP because their previous record hit and they wanted to keep their audience happy. I don't think Capitol spent much on payola to get The Beatles much play either - there was no need to bribe for records by the hottest acts. By this time, DJ's in major markets rarely had anything to say about what they played - the entire day was fairly well programmed out to ensure the station's balance of music to ads. Certainly Motown paid homage to the PD's and favors were probably done, but probably more likely to get play for second tier groups or records they felt needed help. Perhaps payola might explain the success of The Hunter Gets Captured as it is quite a unique record from a group with a very spotty success rate. Don't Mess With Bill's climb was textbook sales supported by airplay, I doubt it cost anything to put that over. Maybe Gladys, Edwin, Brenda, Jimmy Ruffin needed boosts to get started. I think after the early 60's, if payloa was all it was cracked up to be [[to some), Up The Ladder & Reach Out would have been much bigger hits - ditto Some Things You Never Get Used To - he had points to be made with those records.

[supremester]

@Rob - you are correct that The Supremes' records often charted for longer than The Beatles - whose records were all gold and played to death. As far as IHAS, I don't recall a single having so many different pressings with obvious label differences, plus I never saw it in cut out bins [[like Itching, YCHL, YKMHO etc) I wanted another IHAS 45 as I pretty much destroyed mine and didn't want to spend a whole .79 cents again. I got several used ones tha sounded like crap and finally, years later, I got an unplayed 45 with a very weird font and the red paper sleeve. It's probably from one of those bootleg pressings for cash they did to avoid taxes [[and royalties.) It's sad when you consider that an act would have returns count against their sales that might never have been credited in the first place! I never thought about that before. Ouch. No wonder Betty Kelly got a day job!

[LuvHangOva]

Payola??? I can attest that payola definitely did exist during my pop DeeJay/"Air Personality" career in the 70s, 80s, 90s and early 2000s. It was much more subtle in it's execution but I personally witnessed "high ticket items" that were provided by record companies or more indirectly by" record promoters"[[ who were "pimping" records from a variety of record companies) earmarked for "contest winners" conveniently ending up as possessions of radio station management[[music directors, program directors, etc) . As I said it was subtle but definitely still effective

[milven]

... The Supremes were a huge act and program directors would naturally add their records ASAP because their previous record hit and they wanted to keep their audience happy. I don't think Capitol spent much on payola to get The Beatles much play either - there was no need to bribe for records by the hottest acts.

I have no knowledge of how the Beatles were promoted either. But as a radio listener back then, I do remember that some stations were given permission to play their new release exclusively before release.

Michael, Whitney and Mariah were huge artists just as the Beatles were. One would think that they did not need any promotion. But, I do know first hand that massive amounts of product and who knows what else was given away to many in the industry to insure that each of their records debuted at number one. I wonder if the free product that Clive Davis and Tommy Mottola gave away was counted towards their certification of platinumn or gold.

[TheMotownManiac]

So how did/does Payola work? specific records? I always wondered about Get Ready and Shake Me, Wake Me that both way underperformed on the chart.......being taught a lesson? Supremes songs made hits by Payola? Not because they were good? Was there not enough $$$ to make Reach Out & Touch a hit?

[George Solomon]

Just caught this post and thought I'd go back to the original subject. We interviewed Lamont Dozier for the I HEAR A SYMPHONY EXPANDED. He had this to say about the subject. As it sometimes happens, this quote was eliminated from the final booklet.

Among the covers on the album is “A Lover’s Concerto,” a Supremes sound-alike by the Toys that was hardly subtle in its effort to emulate a Motown record, borrowing a musical passage from “Stop! In The Name Of Love” note for note. For the Supremes’ version the key was lowered, making Diana’s delivery warm and comfortable. A new intro with classical strings worked well with the I Hear A Symphony concept.
It’s been written that “A Lover’s Concerto” was Holland, Dozier, Holland’s inspiration for “I Hear A Symphony.” Lamont Dozier sets the record straight. “There is no truth in the rumor that the song "I Hear A Symphony" was inspired by The Toys "Lover's Concerto". "I Hear A Symphony" was created, because, I was inspired by a girlfriend who was a muse to me at that time. I truly experienced that every time she was around me, I heard beautiful music, so I came up with the title and worked with Brian on the right melody. Eddie then finished up the lyric after we all talked about the feeling that we wanted the song to convey.

[I ♥ The Supremes and Temptations]

According to Barbra Harris of the toys:
" The Isley Brothers told us that the Motown folks took our record and played it over the loudspeakers for weeks until they came up with one to match," Harris said. "We were thrilled about hearing that and thought it was great."

[skooldem1]

Eddie Holland recalls that he was still writing the lyrics while he was teaching Diana the song. The record was released a week later.


I wonder if this is the fact behind the story that some like to bring up all the time, regarding someone "witnessing" producers force feeding the lyrics to Diana in order for her to record a song.

[reese]

I wonder if this is the fact behind the story that some like to bring up all the time, regarding someone "witnessing" producers force feeding the lyrics to Diana in order for her to record a song.

I always thought so.

[marv2]

I always thought so.

and you would be right! They had to teach Diane the lyrics to most of the songs, word by word....line by line! They use to have her listen to Brenda Holloway records to learn phrasing etc. There were times where she sang along to the demos created before hand! Some people don't to believe it, but that's too bad.

[nabob]

and you would be right! They had to teach diane the lyrics to most of the songs, word by word....line by line! They use to have her listen to brenda holloway records to learn phrasing etc. There were times where she sang along to the demos created before hand! Some people don't to believe it, but that's too bad.PLEASE GIVE THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS A REST! Whatever the situation was, it happened almost 50 years ago. I don't think it had any effect negative or positive on any of us using the forum.

[marv2]

PLEASE GIVE THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS A REST! Whatever the situation was, it happened almost 50 years ago. I don't think it had any effect negative or positive on any of us using the forum.

Nah, like I said. Some can't take it. The truth will never rest. We're discussing something that has to do with the music and the artists here that recorded for Motown. If you don't like it, maybe you should give it a rest! Just about everything we discuss here happened in past because Motown is now history. So it makes no sense to me at all to even mention not commenting on something here that happened 35 ,45, or 50 years ago! What will we discuss then?

[nabob]

Nah, like I said. Some can't take it. The truth will never rest. We're discussing something that has to do with the music and the artists here that recorded for Motown. If you don't like it, maybe you should give it a rest! Just about everything we discuss here happened in past because Motown is now history. So it makes no sense to me at all to even mention not commenting on something here that happened 35 ,45, or 50 years ago! What will we discuss then?Z. z. z. z.

[marv2]

Z. z. z. z.

...and whatever!

[jobeterob]

...and whatever!

Marv and the truth lol, ca fait deux!

[marv2]

Marv and the truth lol, ca fair deux!

That's right! They had to teach her the songs just like you have to teach a 1st Grader songs.......

[Roberta75]

PLEASE GIVE THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS A REST! Whatever the situation was, it happened almost 50 years ago. I don't think it had any effect negative or positive on any of us using the forum.

He cant because he loves to wallow in negativity and misery. Poor bitter marv2 isnt happy unless hes being nasty and confrontattional and negative. We should all feel real real sorry for him.

Roberta

[jobeterob]

And he clearly doesn't know French.

[nabob]

And he clearly doesn't know French.OK. Let’s try German: Schade. Ich habe Mitleid mit den Narren.

My argument is not with or with what you say, but specifically with how say what you choose to share. The whole bit about Ms Ross using demos by other singers to learn phrasing is nothing new. And yes, we do know it to be true. But who cares since that's what it took to make her the star she is today? Some people have to work harder than others. Sometimes, the hard work pays off. This is coming from one who is definitely not part of the Ross camp and who isn’t generous with opinions about things or people that don’t meet my approval.

[milven]

…. Eddie Holland recalls that he was still writing the lyrics while he was teaching Diana the song. The record was released a week later.




I wonder if this is the fact behind the story that some like to bring up all the time, regarding someone "witnessing" producers force feeding the lyrics to Diana in order for her to record a song.

Well, there is the fact above, and below, Marv takes it and expands it into something negative with the implication that Diana is so ill equipped in talent, that she had to be force fed in each recording session.


… They had to teach Diane the lyrics to most of the songs, word by word....line by line! .... There were times where she sang along to the demos created before hand! Some people don't to believe it, but that's too bad.

Marv, you have already told us that you have the unique ability to hear songs like The 5th Dimension's Love Hangover on the radio before it was recorded. Diana is not as lucky as you.

Diana does not have your unique talent and can not sing a song before it is written. Eddie Holland said he was still writing the lyrics while teaching Diana the song. So that would explain why they had to "teach Diane the lyrics.. word by word..line by line

Even with the facts clearly stated in the thread, your post implies that Diana was one step away from stupid.

[George Solomon]

My intention is not to fuel the fire because I'm sure many have heard to the contrary. Even the key players who were there can and often tell their stories differently. I've had personal, off the record conversations with Smokey Robinson, Clarence Paul, Lamont Dozier, Nick Ashford and Valerie Simpson, Hal Davis, Deke Richards, Frank Wilson, Gil Askey, Michael Masser and more. Every one of them told me that they loved working with Diana Ross because she was hard working, extremely efficient and vocally versatile. Most of her hits were done quickly in one or two takes. We have evidence in the vaults that support this. In the seventies some [[not all) producers chose to do multiple takes but as Andy and I listened to several vocals of "Touch Me In The Morning" we learned that just about any of them could have been released as a finished vocal. Also, her studio chatter seems pleasant and upbeat.
I had the pleasure of being a spectator in the studio with Miss Ross on one occasion in the eighties and also found that everything I had heard was true.
Just wanted to start Monday morning on a positive note.

[thanxal]

My intention is not to fuel the fire because I'm sure many have heard to the contrary. Even the key players who were there can and often tell their stories differently. I've had personal, off the record conversations with Smokey Robinson, Clarence Paul, Lamont Dozier, Nick Ashford and Valerie Simpson, Hal Davis, Deke Richards, Frank Wilson, Gil Askey, Michael Masser and more. Every one of them told me that they loved working with Diana Ross because she was hard working, extremely efficient and vocally versatile. Most of her hits were done quickly in one or two takes. We have evidence in the vaults that support this. In the seventies some [[not all) producers chose to do multiple takes but as Andy and I listened to several vocals of "Touch Me In The Morning" we learned that just about any of them could have been released as a finished vocal. Also, her studio chatter seems pleasant and upbeat.
I had the pleasure of being a spectator in the studio with Miss Ross on one occasion in the eighties and also found that everything I had heard was true.
Just wanted to start Monday morning on a positive note.

Facts should never be used to try to stem the vitrol between certain members of this community. They won't let it intervene in their long standing hatred anyway.

However I, and others like me, who try to avoid those petty feuds really do enjoy your insight on this topic. I come here to learn, listen and love the music and I'm glad people like yourself with such insight stop by every once-in-a-while and drop a nugget of info on us.

[milven]

My intention is not to fuel the fire because I'm sure many have heard to the contrary. ... Most of her hits were done quickly in one or two takes. We have evidence in the vaults that support this. ...Also, her studio chatter seems pleasant and upbeat.
I had the pleasure of being a spectator in the studio with Miss Ross on one occasion in the eighties and also found that everything I had heard was true.
Just wanted to start Monday morning on a positive note.

You did not fuel the fire. You put it out. And it is nice to see something positive about Diana from someone who has first hand information. But unfortunately, it will not stop some from invading Diana threads with their negativity. Thanks for contributing to this site and keeping us informed.

[Roberta75]

My intention is not to fuel the fire because I'm sure many have heard to the contrary. Even the key players who were there can and often tell their stories differently. I've had personal, off the record conversations with Smokey Robinson, Clarence Paul, Lamont Dozier, Nick Ashford and Valerie Simpson, Hal Davis, Deke Richards, Frank Wilson, Gil Askey, Michael Masser and more. Every one of them told me that they loved working with Diana Ross because she was hard working, extremely efficient and vocally versatile. Most of her hits were done quickly in one or two takes. We have evidence in the vaults that support this. In the seventies some [[not all) producers chose to do multiple takes but as Andy and I listened to several vocals of "Touch Me In The Morning" we learned that just about any of them could have been released as a finished vocal. Also, her studio chatter seems pleasant and upbeat.
I had the pleasure of being a spectator in the studio with Miss Ross on one occasion in the eighties and also found that everything I had heard was true.
Just wanted to start Monday morning on a positive note.

George you didnt do anything wrong in fact you always bring us the best imformation.

Yours, with every good wish.

Roberta

[jobeterob]

George Solomon rocks!

[RossHolloway]

I love it when GS comes in and lays down some knowledge!

[Roberta75]

I love it when GS comes in and lays down some knowledge!

Ditto. :eek:;):cool::eek:;):cool:

[jobeterob]

The George Solomon Popularity Thread.

[TheMotownManiac]

Thank you, George. You are so fortunate to have had so much interplay with the foundation of Motown. We are lucky to have, and appreciate your input. There is someone here who disses Diana every chance he gets - that's his voice, and often reality is to the contrary lol. I have had several chats with Nick & Val. They know I'm a big Motown/Ross fan and they spoke glowingly of Miss Ross. Nick, couldn't stop gushing about her and said all of his real favorite moments as a producer were with her in the studio and when writing for her. His favorite sessions were I'm Gonna Make you Love Me, Remember Me, The Boss, I Ain't Been Licked [["we knew we had it and it was a party") and the spoken part of Ain't No Mountain [["I dream big for Diana, and when she brings it to life........." he got teary eyed.) It may all be about the money with Val, but Nick seemed to truly love her. I have been told by several sources that Deke Richards was also VERY fond of Diana.
My intention is not to fuel the fire because I'm sure many have heard to the contrary. Even the key players who were there can and often tell their stories differently. I've had personal, off the record conversations with Smokey Robinson, Clarence Paul, Lamont Dozier, Nick Ashford and Valerie Simpson, Hal Davis, Deke Richards, Frank Wilson, Gil Askey, Michael Masser and more. Every one of them told me that they loved working with Diana Ross because she was hard working, extremely efficient and vocally versatile. Most of her hits were done quickly in one or two takes. We have evidence in the vaults that support this. In the seventies some [[not all) producers chose to do multiple takes but as Andy and I listened to several vocals of "Touch Me In The Morning" we learned that just about any of them could have been released as a finished vocal. Also, her studio chatter seems pleasant and upbeat.
I had the pleasure of being a spectator in the studio with Miss Ross on one occasion in the eighties and also found that everything I had heard was true.
Just wanted to start Monday morning on a positive note.

[George Solomon]

Thanks everyone. I'm a little embarrassed but thanks :-)
Just a word about the demos. It's interesting to hear that in almost every case the demo singer gave no performance at all. In fact for most of Diana's demos there was a girl [[and I have no idea who she was) that was definitely not a good singer) Even when Syreeta or Valerie did the demos they put VERY little into the performance so the vocalist could make it their own and we know they were/are both great singers. [[Valerie's "Remember Me" wasn't a demo it was a finished performance). Even Frank Wilson did some of the demos and God love him, he wasn't a singer. It's actually fun listening to some of these. Maybe someday we should do a "demo" CD so the fans can hear just how much the artist really made the song their own. Diana and especially Martha didn't want a performance on the demo. Martha's vocal takes were all amazing!

[soulwally]

So where's Marv gone now?

Incidentally, I remember reading years ago about someone who observed a Stevie Wonder recording session recalling how songwriter/producer Don Hunter 'fed' the lines to I Don't Know Why to Stevie just before he sang each line.

[jobeterob]

So where's Marv gone now?

Incidentally, I remember reading years ago about someone who observed a Stevie Wonder recording session recalling how songwriter/producer Don Hunter 'fed' the lines to I Don't Know Why to Stevie just before he sang each line.

Hopefully, to a "burrow" where he will launch more rude Youtube Comments; but more likely, he just stays away from thread after thread where most other posters reject any more mean spirited attacks.

[Motown4Ever518]

I just revisited the Expanded IHAS CD and to me the Supremes version of Lovers Concerto sounds as though it was done in California. By the way, 4 versions of IHAS , it made a usually unusually boring 2 1/2 hour car trip unboring. Though I admit that I did not listen to all 4 versions exclusively.

[ejluther]

It's actually fun listening to some of these. Maybe someday we should do a "demo" CD so the fans can hear just how much the artist really made the song their own. Diana and especially Martha didn't want a performance on the demo. Bring it on! Speaking of bringing it on, any word on upcoming expanded/deluxe releases? Thanks for all the love and hard work you share with us...