oBOMBer is beating the war drums...

[funky_fresh]

and not a peep out of his sheeple. Back in 2008 I predicted that this president would be nothing more than GW Bush part 3 and he at every event has not failed to live up to this prediction. So here we are again, with a president who is hell bent on keeping the imperialistic and war mongering policies of the previous administration going. This is disgusting and what is even more nauseating is the hypocrisy of it all. The US used chemical weapons in Vietnam and as recently in Fallujah [[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/us-forces-used-chemical-weapons-during-assault-on-city-of-fallujah-514433.html). The US turned a blind eye when we were arming Iraq [[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/history-lesson-when-the-united-states-looked-the-other-way-on-chemical-weapons/2013/09/04/0ec828d6-1549-11e3-961c-f22d3aaf19ab_blog.html) in the 80s to fight Iran. And of course, the US-being Israels lap dog- turned a blind eye when Israel used chemical weapons against the Palestinian [[http://www.policymic.com/articles/62023/10-chemical-weapons-attacks-washington-doesn-t-want-you-to-talk-about) people. So what is the goal again mr president? To kill Syrians for killing Syrians? More US taxpayer money going to fight yet another war and make even more enemies across the world? Putting even more US men and women soldiers at risk for what? To punish a regime that has done exactly what we and our "allies" have done in the past?

And lets not forget who it is that the US has been arming and who the US wants to give an air force to....al qaeda!!!!! The same wahhabi and salafi animals who wish to murder US civilians if given the chance. This is insanity at its highest level!

This president is an absolute fraud and all of the principals and ideas on which he ran on in 2004 were quickly flushed down the toilet. *Hey oBOMBer, how is closing Guantanamo [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofUWNAX_lZY) down going? Oh thats right, its still open. It only costs 454 million dollars a year to keep open.

Where are his cheerleaders now? Anyone?

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7165

[Jerry Oz]

Back off from the crack pipe.

George Bush: "Saddam has WMDs." Proven wrong.
Barack Obama: "Assad gassed his own people." Veracity yet to be determined.

Either prove it wrong, or shut up because it's a false equivalency.

[funky_fresh]

Back off from the crack pipe.

George Bush: "Saddam has WMDs." Proven wrong.
Barack Obama: "Assad gassed his own people." Veracity yet to be determined.

Either prove it wrong, or shut up because it's a false equivalency.

Your response makes no sense. The president wants to take us to war. Bush took us to war. False equivalency? Did you just look that word up or something? Is it possible for you to have a discussion without hurling insults or is that just your M.O.? Care to comment on anything else I said or are you just content with sticking your head in the sand while the country goes to hell in a handbasket.

[midnight johnny]

The false equivalency I think that Jerry is pointing out...VALIDLY...is that the Bush administration LIED about WMD. Obama and his administration ISN'T LYING about Syrian citizens being gased by the Assad regime. I totally disagree with Obama and Kerry about what should be done..... but they are in no way the Bush administration. And to say they are is over the top and painting with MUCH too broad a brush

[skooldem1]

It is believed that the USA was sure that Iraq had chemical weapons because at one time we supplied them with it. When we went to Iraq they had moved them to Syria.

I found the silence on the Syria in this forum very telling.

[skooldem1]

It is the same situation. The USA government telling lies to get us into another war. So far the evidence shows that chemical weapons were used. The question is WHO used them? I am tired of the USA being war hawks.

[Jerry Oz]

You sound like me 11 years ago and still today. It may be the same situation and I hope we don't go to war but the spelling of Obama's name indicates the original poster's intent when creating this post. It's not to spur intelligent debate, but to pick a side and argue about it. I doubt seriously that funkyfresh would have posted this topic had Romney won and we found ourselves in the same situation.

[midnight johnny]

It's pretty clear who's using gas...but you can wait for the inspector's report. Obama is clearly NOT a HAWK. His ambivalence about what to do in the Syrian situation proves that if there is any doubt. 6,000,000 refugees leaving Syria means to me that there is clearly a problem that is not based on lies.
As far as I'm concerned, it is a horrible civil war that we should not intrude in. We are not the world's police.

[funky_fresh]

You sound like me 11 years ago and still today. It may be the same situation and I hope we don't go to war but the spelling of Obama's name indicates the original poster's intent when creating this post. It's not to spur intelligent debate, but to pick a side and argue about it. I doubt seriously that funkyfresh would have posted this topic had Romney won and we found ourselves in the same situation.

My intent is to get people who blindly support this administration to explain how this president is leading this country in the right direction. You come back with assumptions and accusations - thinking that anyone who isnt in lock step with the president must be a republican or a fox news fan.

Yet again you a wrong, I never voted for Romney and even if he was the president right now I would be just as vocal in condeming what is a rediculously bad move for our nation - getting involved in yet another costly war... all while arming and aiding al qaeda!

[funky_fresh]

It's pretty clear who's using gas...but you can wait for the inspector's report. Obama is clearly NOT a HAWK. His ambivalence about what to do in the Syrian situation proves that if there is any doubt. 6,000,000 refugees leaving Syria means to me that there is clearly a problem that is not based on lies.
As far as I'm concerned, it is a horrible civil war that we should not intrude in. We are not the world's police.

How is it clear who is using the gas? Can anyone expalin this? Why, because the president said so? There is a possibility that al qaeda [[or as the president calls them - "rebels") used this gas on their own people to get the US to stick its nose in this conflict even more than we already are.

And the president IS being hawkish. How does a military strike on a soverign nation make one NOT hawkish? He is lobbying for military intervention.

[midnight johnny]

How is it clear who is using the gas? Can anyone expalin this? Why, because the president said so? There is a possibility that al qaeda [[or as the president calls them - "rebels") used this gas on their own people to get the US to stick its nose in this conflict even more than we already are.

And the president IS being hawkish. How does a military strike on a soverign nation make one NOT hawkish? He is lobbying for military intervention.

Yes. I think anyone with a brain knows that Obama and Kerry...and others...are lobbying for this attack. I've made myself clear about my disagreement with the plan/idea to attack Syria. But you are CLEARLY and TOTALLY against Obama in all or most ways, and to debate this any further with you is useless.

[skooldem1]

"His ambivalence" is because he and Kerry were ready to bomb last weekend, until they felt the backlash of not only the American people, but also the world. I have already seen the switch to this being an issue of "refugees" and humanitarian efforts. I think it is disgusting how they try to persuade the public talking about "woman and children". When you need support, always bring up the 400 women and children gassed. Never mind the 100,000 other people killed from bombs and bullets.

[marv2]

There was a time when the U.S. and many other nations would come to the rescue of people being murdered innocently by their governments. Those days appear to be over.

[splanky]

There was a time when the U.S. and many other nations would come to the rescue of people being murdered innocently by their governments. Those days appear to be over.

Those days have been over for a long time now, longer than Obama's been in office. Remember Rwanda? You can check out various movies and documentaries about it at your
local library...
What we see in the news tells me Syrians were indeed killed using chemical weapons but
I'm not seeing proof that the government itself did it. How is Kerry so sure? Has he given
airtight indisputable evidence to our president? I'm with John on this, don't Kerry, McCain,
Biden and Mr Obama among other elected officials realize the majority of the people are
piss f*cking tired of war, especially when just trying to conduct life in our crippled economy
is becoming difficult to damn near impossible for many. I voted for Obama, still respect
him and have appreciated a lot of the things he has done; he's no George Bush, by a longshot, but lately I think he's been going off half cocked and showing that he's just as
much a "politcian" as any in office before him, meaning he'll jump to conclusions, cut under the table deals and lie just like every one in federal, state and local government has since
time immortal...If he doesn't want to go out in blaze like Bush did, he needs to check himself in the mirror closely or Michelle needs to slap some sense into homeboy:)...

[Jerry Oz]

My intent is to get people who blindly support this administration to explain how this president is leading this country in the right direction. You come back with assumptions and accusations - thinking that anyone who isnt in lock step with the president must be a republican or a fox news fan.

Yet again you a wrong, I never voted for Romney and even if he was the president right now I would be just as vocal in condeming what is a rediculously bad move for our nation - getting involved in yet another costly war... all while arming and aiding al qaeda! First of all, you won't find a post on this board or any where I support any action in Syria, so I guess I am not in lockstep myself. Second, I don't need to make assumptions about you because any logical person can see your bent. And I could not care less whether you are a Fox News fan or a Republican. Don't confuse me with someone else.

[skooldem1]

Of course new "shocking" video has just been released on CNN showing people foaming at the mouth after a chemical attack. I suspected more video, or even a "new" attack would happen before the President addresses the nation Tuesday. It is all propaganda.

[marv2]

Of course new "shocking" video has just been released on CNN showing people foaming at the mouth after a chemical attack. I suspected more video, or even a "new" attack would happen before the President addresses the nation Tuesday. It is all propaganda.

No! Those are REAL dead and dying people.

[144man]

While we're waiting for the inspector's report, how many more people are going to die?

[marv2]

While we're waiting for the inspector's report, how many more people are going to die?

Well, it's been going on now for 2 years......I guess it's like "what's the rush"!

[Jerry Oz]

The real problem with Syria is no matter who comes out on top, we are still their enemy. There's no leader of the opposition. The same people crying "where is America" will be in the chorus of "death to America" a year after it is all resolved. Al-Assad is our enemy, but he is the devil we know. The void created by his ouster would probably be filled with chaos and disorder. I hope that we do not get involved, even if there was a coalition. We stayed out of Rwanda; we can stay out of Syria.

[marv2]

The real problem with Syria is no matter who comes out on top, we are still their enemy. There's no leader of the opposition. The same people crying "where is America" will be in the chorus of "death to America" a year after it is all resolved. Al-Assad is our enemy, but he is the devil we know. The void created by his ouster would probably be filled with chaos and disorder. I hope that we do not get involved, even if there was a coalition. We stayed out of Rwanda; we can stay out of Syria.

It is going to be really hard when we continually see visuals such as this nightly on the news......

[funky_fresh]

It is going to be really hard when we continually see visuals such as this nightly on the news......


That looks a lot like the images of the victims of Obamas drone strikes [[http://www.policymic.com/articles/15340/drone-strikes-in-pakistan-have-killed-thousands-of-civilians).

How about we look at the bloody and senseless killings at the hands of our own government before we drum up another rediclous war?

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[Jerry Oz]

I can dig that, Marv. But the photos from Rwanda, Darfur, and many others were just as disturbing even if they didn't make it to the evening news. Which conflicts do we choose to involve ourselves in? Giving weapons to the opposition may very well be arming our enemies [[or the Syrian army, should al-Assad win and disarm them). Just as the Muslim Brotherhood assumed power in Egypt, we may see a government that is fundamentally opposed to us take over. Iran is already linked to plots to extend the conflict into Iraq if we attack Syria, so we potentially are looking at a regional conflict that we will have no choice but to support our allies. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't want us to do it alone and I feel in my gut that getting involved is a mistake.

[soulster]

It is believed that the USA was sure that Iraq had chemical weapons because at one time we supplied them with it. When we went to Iraq they had moved them to Syria.

I found the silence on the Syria in this forum very telling. It shouldn't have been. I was thinking about starting a thread, but it would have gone nowhere because it would have my name on it as the thread starter. It would have probably been shadowed by all the senseless and useless Diana Ross/Supremes threads. BUT, I did post something about this in a passive way. If you look in the Clubhouse threads, you will see where I did a thread about Assysa Milano's sex tape. It only gained one or two replies. So, your seeing of silence was telling, but not in the way you may think.

I was originally on board with this punishing Assad for the use of chemical weapons on his own people, but, after having tale a good long look at the situation, I see that it is the worst part of the no-win situation. We're dammed if we do, damned if we don't. There is NO dispute from anyone in the world that Assad used chemical weapons. None. But, G.W. Bushie ruined it with his insistence on invading Iraq for no good reason. He destroyed whatever good camaraderie and trust the world may have had for us, especially with Britain. They don't want the U.S. as the albatross around their neck again. Not only that, they have their own sordid history of imperialism in the region.

I do think Obama needs to step back and consider what his country is telling him, not to do this...yet. This is NOT a partisan thing. People on both sides are all over the map on this, but the majority do not see bombing Syria at this time as a good idea. Perhaps that is why Obama sought congressional approval first. He is being pragmatic now, but he can easily attack by Executive order.

And, though all of this, I remember how we sat on the sidelines for years and watched Hitler exterminate Jews and ravage Europe. Someone needs to do something about Assad.

Damn you George W. Bush!

[splanky]

For the most part I agree with everything you've just said , Soulster. My primary difference with both your and skooldem's perspective is that you can't dictate what forum members can , will or should respond to and you can't know what is their reason for doing or not doing
so. Are you mind readers? I think not . There are some people who cannot handle discussion
of serious world topics, true, then there others who prefer to do it only offline, in real time
among people they actually know and see in real life. I've met a lot of folks I've shared ideas
with here and on other sites but there's a whole lot I'd never say on the internet! You kidding me?...

[soulster]

Splanky,

That's just my cynicism coming through, caused by my many, many efforts to start threads around here, and because one of those "other" forum members once told me why no one reads or posts on any thread I start.

Every message board's inhabitants are different, sometimes it's by the force of rules, sometimes by the culture. certainly, the culture here is still a strange place to me. In other words, after all of these years, i'm still not accustomed to it, even though it has changed in the last few. But, I like it because there are those who are more willing to discuss things few other places even allow.

But, let me ask you, now that we have hijacked the thread and altered its intent, what is the point in having a forum if the majority of its members will only post about a narrow number of things?

[splanky]

The forum, both the main and cluhouse and even the Motown section have all mutated so far from what things were whne I first joined that even I'll agree I sometimes don't even
recognise it. Too many battles and all out wars, as in the real world and too many casualties.
As it stands now the majority of members, it seems in order to avoid confrontations, will
only post on their own main musical idols and any thread where their names are even just
passively mentioned. Also it seems to me too many agendas unrelated to music are at play.
As an example I find it ironic that this thread's starter who calls himself "funky" and "fresh"
has rarely joined a thread to talk music...if ever, I know I don't remember a time, I too have
had threads I've started ignored or boycotted. I understand that I can be very blunt sometimes and someof our members don't have the stomach for it. Que sera sera....

[soulster]

You know, I just started a thread about Earth, Wind & Fire's new album out Tuesday, and I doubt that a single person besides Milven will comment on it. I'll bet if Diana Ross was on it, the forum would be like ants on food. Oops! There's my sarcasm again! :)

Part of it may be the way people read the forum. I use the "New Posts" option so I see it all, but I suspect most just go to the section they prefer.

Agreed about funky_fresh. With him it's always anti-Obama this, anti Obama that.

[soulster]

Funny thing is whenever I mention the age demographics around here, the post gets zapped. That must be a sensitive thing around here for some reason.

[Methuselah2]

It's like anything--sometimes, you participate; sometimes, you observe. I check out different threads and jump in when I think I can add to the conversation.

What's so strange about this thread is that it's about a possible attack. And that's exactly what some of its posters have done to each other. Some of it is anything but conversational. And, of course, that's their choice to do so.

[marv2]

You know, I just started a thread about Earth, Wind & Fire's new album out Tuesday, and I doubt that a single person besides Milven will comment on it. I'll bet if Diana Ross was on it, they'd be like ants on food. Oops! There's my sarcasm again! :)

Part of it may be the way people read the forum. I use the "New Posts" option so I see it all, but I suspect most just go to the section they prefer.

Agreed about funky_fresh. With him it's always anti-Obama this, anti Obama that.

You leave Dianah Ross alone, she never done anything to you! hehehehehehehehe!!

[soulster]

You leave Dianah Ross alone, she never done anything to you! hehehehehehehehe!!
Never said anything about her. I was referring to the obsessed fans, and that is not an attack, just a comment on observed behavior patterns.

[Jerry Oz]

It's too easy to avoid reading something that might upset me. I responded to this silly post only to dissent. I knew from the OP' s thread title and remark about "sheeeple" that he was itching for a fight and I am not willing to get crap on my knuckles. Numb Nuts even felt that he was being attacked when I neither know him nor cared about his opinion. I frequent another message board that frequently gets soured by bitter political threads. I won't feed that opportunity here.

[marv2]

It's too easy to avoid reading something that might upset me. I responded to this silly post only to dissent. I knew from the OP' s thread title and remark about "sheeeple" that he was itching for a fight and I am not willing to get crap on my knuckles. Numb Nuts even felt that he was being attacked when I neither know him nor cared about his opinion. I frequent another message board that frequently gets soured by bitter political threads. I won't feed that opportunity here.

Jerry I wouldn't even get into it. You have people that live to argue and fight! They can be as wrong as rain [[on your day off) , but will persist in disagreeing or making inflammatory remarks just to get a reaction.

[Roberta75]

Jerry I wouldn't even get into it. You have people that live to argue and fight! They can be as wrong as rain [[on your day off) , but will persist in disagreeing or making inflammatory remarks just to get a reaction.

lolololololololololol hi pot meet kettle. lolololol

[Roberta75]

I can dig that, Marv. But the photos from Rwanda, Darfur, and many others were just as disturbing even if they didn't make it to the evening news. Which conflicts do we choose to involve ourselves in? Giving weapons to the opposition may very well be arming our enemies [[or the Syrian army, should al-Assad win and disarm them). Just as the Muslim Brotherhood assumed power in Egypt, we may see a government that is fundamentally opposed to us take over. Iran is already linked to plots to extend the conflict into Iraq if we attack Syria, so we potentially are looking at a regional conflict that we will have no choice but to support our allies. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't want us to do it alone and I feel in my gut that getting involved is a mistake.

im one of the Presidents biggest supporters jerry but i cant support him on this potential war. as you say there are attrocities going on every day in this world and to a lesser extent even right here in our own country. my gut tells me this is a mistake and wrong to get involved in. We are weary from almost 13 years of war and all the trillions we've spent in Iraq and Afganistan could do so much here at home for poverty and education and healthcare and the economy.

No Mr President i cant support you on this one and i have prayed hard over this.

Roberta

[Roberta75]

You know, I just started a thread about Earth, Wind & Fire's new album out Tuesday, and I doubt that a single person besides Milven will comment on it. I'll bet if Diana Ross was on it, the forum would be like ants on food. Oops! There's my sarcasm again! :)

Behind the smile and humor im sensing the pain and hurt you feel when people ignore your postings soulster. Im real sorry about that and will try to be more active in answering your postings.

Sincerely,

Roberta

[marv2]

lolololololololololol hi pot meet kettle. lolololol

You just have to aggitate huh? That is you M.O. and people are starting to notice it.......

[Roberta75]

You just have to aggitate huh? That is you M.O. and people are starting to notice it.......

Arent you real sweet.

Have a blessed Sunday babe.

Roberta

[soulster]

Behind the smile and humor im sensing the pain and hurt you feel when people ignore your postings soulster. Im real sorry about that and will try to be more active in answering your postings.

Sincerely,

Roberta
No pain or hurt, more like pity for the obsessed Ross fans. Hmmm... I wonder if my attitude towards them is why they ignore my threads. :) Heh!

[funky_fresh]

It's too easy to avoid reading something that might upset me. I responded to this silly post only to dissent. I knew from the OP' s thread title and remark about "sheeeple" that he was itching for a fight and I am not willing to get crap on my knuckles. Numb Nuts even felt that he was being attacked when I neither know him nor cared about his opinion. I frequent another message board that frequently gets soured by bitter political threads. I won't feed that opportunity here.

Hello Jerry. I don't know you either but I can promise you this, I am quite capable of having an intelligent discussion about politics without hurling insults. You on the other hand don't seem to be able to have that ability. Itching for a fight? Not at all. I'm just sick and tired of my country doing the wrong thing every damn time. I honestly wanted to hear peoples opinions on the matter and whether I agree with the answers or not, I find them interesting. Calling people "Numb Nuts"? Not very interesting at all. My language on my posts may at times be aggressive. Its apparently struck a nerve in whatever is left in your head.

[soulster]

I would really love to see another country step up to the plate. Why does the U.S. always have to be the one to lead the charge? Let some of these other countries that are so concerned strike Assad. But, honestly, I hope it isn't Israel.

[Jerry Oz]

Hello Jerry. I don't know you either but I can promise you this, I am quite capable of having an intelligent discussion about politics without hurling insults. You on the other hand don't seem to be able to have that ability. Itching for a fight? Not at all. I'm just sick and tired of my country doing the wrong thing every damn time. I honestly wanted to hear peoples opinions on the matter and whether I agree with the answers or not, I find them interesting. Calling people "Numb Nuts"? Not very interesting at all. My language on my posts may at times be aggressive. Its apparently struck a nerve in whatever is left in your head.
Before I officially ignore you, funkmeister, here's the news: If the country disagrees with you and does the wrong thing every damn time, then you're the one who is wrong. You see, we don't let one or a few people decide things when the majority disagrees. Like it or not, the president has the backing of the American people by virtue of being elected president. You see, he's not final because he's right but he's right because he's final. I guess you didn't get that message when you slept through your Principles of Democracy classes. Stay funky though, and keep it fresh.

[ralpht]

Okay guys...lighten it up or the thread goes.....

[soulster]

Hitting Syria is the right thing to do, but the U.S. people just don't want to get into another Iraq-type war. No one wants to go into this with us because they are worried about retaliation. Why does it always have to be us? After all, we aren't exactly the paragon of human rights, either.

[Jerry Oz]

Okay guys...lighten it up or the thread goes.....
I apologize, Ralph.

[skooldem1]

Russia has come up with a diplomatic solution. Hopefully all sides can come to an agreement and avoid war.

[skooldem1]

A deal has been reached to avoid war. This is great news.

[soulster]

Yup. Syria has agreed to get rid of their chemical weapons. We'll see if it happens. This is indeed good news. Hopefully, a military strike has been averted.

But, I don't like or trust Putin.