Reflections: Florence Ballard?

[marv2]

Oddly Florence DOES sound like the voice in "ain't necessarily so" from GIT! Strange. Very strange.

I always heard that in that one particular song for GIT. It wasn't on the Soundtrack album, just in the broadcast as if they had recorded it prior to Florence leaving the group. When she sings "David, David my oh my"! You know it is her.

[marv2]

Man I wish Mary did the lead on that song .

It would have been just as great.

[marv2]

I never understood if Flo was fired in April after the big meeting why was she able to record after she was fired? The timing always seemed a little bit grey to me.

She was not officially fired until July of that year. The "meeting" was like a formal final warning to her.

[detmotownguy]

i think the problem was it was determined at the April meeting that Flo would no longer be in the group. however Cindy couldn't get released in time to formally join the group so since there were dates scheduled that they couldn't get out of, they had to bring Flo back in

Cindy had a recording contract via the Bluebelles with Atlantic Records. not that they were a huge group for the label but they did have a contract which Motown would have to get her released from. I'm not sure exactly when they start approaching Cindy about joining and rehearsing. but she was signed with another label at the time

So Flo had to record and perform live until Cindy was onboard? Thats rough duty!

[marv2]

So Flo had to record and perform live until Cindy was onboard? Thats rough duty!

Yep LOL!!! Then when Cindy was onboard and Flo was thrown out of the group, they told her she can never say that she was ever a member of the Supremes even though she started the group! Now ain't that some shit?

[luke]

Sure is! And in JRTs last Diana book he says Florence might have put on Cindys dress and it was too small for her hence the stomach poking out stuff!

[captainjames]

Thank GOD HDH and Berry Gordy made the right choice.................................in my opinion and a million other buyers.

[jobeterob]

You mean in ignoring all the girls except Diana after 1965?

[RossHolloway]

In TCMS 1967, page 64, the liner notes to Reflection states, "Although Florence Ballard took part in the sessions for these two tracks, by the time the record was released she had been let go."

Cindy Birdsong is also quoted in the liner notes, "We were the same dress size, same shoe size, and we wore the same stye of wigs."

[jobeterob]

So then Flo's size must not have been a really big issue and it must really have been attitude

[marv2]

Sure is! And in JRTs last Diana book he says Florence might have put on Cindys dress and it was too small for her hence the stomach poking out stuff!

Yeah but when you look at pictures of Cindy during that time, she was built similar to Flo. Both were stacked! The weight thing played on Florence's confidence. They'd never do that with men.

[marv2]

Thank GOD HDH and Berry Gordy made the right choice.................................in my opinion and a million other buyers.

God had very little to do with all that. He will sort it though.............LOL!

[marv2]

In TCMS 1967, page 64, the liner notes to Reflection states, "Although Florence Ballard took part in the sessions for these two tracks, by the time the record was released she had been let go."

Cindy Birdsong is also quoted in the liner notes, "We were the same dress size, same shoe size, and we wore the same stye of wigs."

So in other words, claiming that Florence Ballard was overweight was all BS!

[midnightman]

I thought that was Marlene on Reflections tbh... when was Reflections recorded? May, right? I think Flo was on probation then... things were coming to an end as far as the original Supremes lineup goes around this time. But hey it is what it is.

[rod_rick]

Oddly Florence DOES sound like the voice in "ain't necessarily so" from GIT! Strange. Very strange.

At first listen it does sound like Flo on "Aint Necessarily So" but when you listen closely you know it's Cindy because Flo's soprano was much heavier in sound than Cindy and Flow would have added a bit more sass to her vocal. It's recordings like this that I believe is those reason Cindy was chosen to be a Supreme along with her looks and killer personality.

[marv2]

At first listen it does sound like Flo on "Aint Necessarily So" but when you listen closely you know it's Cindy because Flo's soprano was much heavier in sound than Cindy and Flow would have added a bit more sass to her vocal. It's recordings like this that I believe is those reason Cindy was chosen to be a Supreme along with her looks and killer personality.

Cindy's voice sounds nothing like Florence's. That is Florence's voice on that track "Ain't Necessarily So" which is probably why it was the only number from the TV special left off the soundtrack album.

[rod_rick]

Don't think so Marv. That soprano voice is too light and thin to be Florence voice. Florence soprano was heavy even when she try to hold back her voice had weight. But we can agree to disagree on this

[sup_fan]

it is not Flo on Ain't Necessarily. The Porgy and Bess numbers were part of a larger medley entitled "Let's Do It" where D, M and C do an intro paying tribute to some of Broadway's great writers then M & C do REmember, Diana does Little Girl Blue, group does Porgy and then the group does an ending. it's absolutely Cindy on the earlier parts of this medley and Ain't.

Why this was all cut, I can only guess at. most certainly I would have preferred this full medley to one of those idiotic skits or that never-ending Fiddler medley by the Temps.

[imakicola]

I guess the whole truly true and truthful truth will always be a mystery!!

[marv2]

I guess the whole truly true and truthful truth will always be a mystery!!

Berry Gordy knows it is Florence on that track.

[captainjames]

No real mystery .........................ask Mary today who is singing background with her on Reflections.

[bradsupremes]

She'll say Florence. But the real answer is in the tapes.

[captainjames]

No she won't
especially on that song she wont.

She'll say Florence. But the real answer is in the tapes.

[ejluther]

No real mystery .........................ask Mary today who is singing background with her on Reflections.

I saw Mary on TV singing "Love Child" once [[BBC?) and prefacing it by talking to the crowd about singing it with Diana and Florence...so, yeah.

[captainjames]

There is no way Mary could have told you Florence is on Love Child unless she misunderstood the question.

I saw Mary on TV singing "Love Child" once [[BBC?) and prefacing it by talking to the crowd about singing it with Diana and Florence...so, yeah.

[ejluther]

It's possible I'm misremembering the performance, of course - it was a big oldies-type show with lots of different acts so she was on and off quickly [[as everyone was)...I wish I could remember more details but I do remember that part of it because it really surprised me - perhaps it was edited for broadcast and a song was cut out? I clearly remember her saying something about singing this one with Diana and Flo and then it was "Love Child"...I mean no disrespect, it was just a memory and a post or two in this thread made me think of it...

[captainjames]

Thats odd because Mary is not even on Love Child.

[honest man]

She'll say Florence. But the real answer is in the tapes.

So Right i would n't believe a word from Mary Wilson mouth no more.

[honest man]

Thats odd because Mary is not even on Love Child.

Correct but she would say she's in the mix something like that.She carries no credibility in my opinion.

[captainjames]

Oh OK I get what you guys are saying. The only thing we can be sure is that Diana is singing lead on those records.

[thommg]

Thats odd because Mary is not even on Love Child.

Mary may not be on the recorded version of Love Child but she did sing it a few hundred times in performance. Her saying she sang it doesn't mean the recording.

[marv2]

Mary may not be on the recorded version of Love Child but she did sing it a few hundred times in performance. Her saying she sang it doesn't mean the recording.

She also sang it probably a half dozen times on television with the Supremes to help promote it and sell it!

[captainjames]

No No No don't get it twisted, that's like asking if you are on "Let's Get It On".

Mary may not be on the recorded version of Love Child but she did sing it a few hundred times in performance. Her saying she sang it doesn't mean the recording.

[detmotownguy]

Mary may not be on the recorded version of Love Child but she did sing it a few hundred times in performance. Her saying she sang it doesn't mean the recording.

.....and speaking of performing love child I saw Mary sing it live in Lake Tahoe with no backgrounds in the late 80s and it was as good as the original recording. as a joke she even saying just the background versus.

[marv2]

.....and speaking of performing love child I saw Mary sing it live in Lake Tahoe with no backgrounds in the late 80s and it was as good as the original recording. as a joke she even saying just the background versus.

Mary does a splendid job with "Love Child" and sings it probably as much as Diane sings "I Will Survive" Gloria Gaynor's song.........

[honest man]

Mary does a splendid job with "Love Child" and sings it probably as much as Diane sings "I Will Survive" Gloria Gaynor's song.........

No no no no how many times do you have to be told it is not aMary Wilson song she covers Diana Ross songs as she is not known more than a back up singer,maybe if she had not been knocking round with married men ,Tom Jones etc she may have sung on the songs,though i hear Florence on Love Child .heeee he

[captainjames]

This is just plain stupid hate....
Diana has never said she was on I will Survive or Carry On. If Mary has said she was on Love Child [[which by the way she has never said that to me) that is just not true. Diana made it a million $$ comeback recording and Mary was no where to be found. This is just plain crazy.

[captainjames]

Also if Mary felt she sounded better on lead with Love Child then release it as a single and lets see where e go with that. Truth be known the reason the girls probably never received a Grammy was they could not figure out who the heck was in the background. Justice finally won out when they decided to just give it to Diana as a Lifetime Achievement Award.

[marv2]

This is just plain stupid hate....
Diana has never said she was on I will Survive or Carry On. If Mary has said she was on Love Child [[which by the way she has never said that to me) that is just not true. Diana made it a million $$ comeback recording and Mary was no where to be found. This is just plain crazy.

You must have forgot [[after all, next month, October 2016 will mark the 30th Anniversary of the release of Mary's epic book, "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme"!). that Mary Wilson was the FIRST and ONLY one to tell us that she and Cindy Birdsong were not on the Love Child recording in that extremely successful book! So to sit here now and pretend that Mary has said that she was on that record is disingenuous on your part!

Go back and re-read your copy of her book. Note the publishing date in the front too.

[marv2]

Also if Mary felt she sounded better on lead with Love Child then release it as a single and lets see where e go with that. Truth be known the reason the girls probably never received a Grammy was they could not figure out who the heck was in the background. Justice finally won out when they decided to just give it to Diana as a Lifetime Achievement Award.

The keyword is "GIVE". Diane was never able to WIN a Grammy in competition all those years. They felt sorry for the ole girl and GAVE her one before she rides out into the sunset! LOL!

[captainjames]

Right and the girls got nothing

The keyword is "GIVE". Diane was never able to WIN a Grammy in competition all those years. They felt sorry for the ole girl and GAVE her one before she rides out into the sunset! LOL!

[marv2]

Right and the girls got nothing

Why are you pretending that they were not a group? Anything Diane was able to accomplish, was just an extension of what the Supremes accomplished. There would not have been a "Diana Ross" if it were not for "The Supremes". Her career is dead now anyway, so there's nothing to argue about here.

[captainjames]

The last 3 times I saw Ms. Ross she was selling out to audiences and very much alive. Berry would never have signed the girls if it wasn't for Diana. If you ever see Motown the Musical you will see that it surrounds Diana and Berry love for her. Mary has never had a hit record as her as the lead or as a solo. She is the one riding on the success of the Supremes. That is the only reason people even know who she was part of. I am not pretending anything that Diana was part of but Diana became the group. She became bigger than the group. There was going to be a Diana Ross because that is what Berry Gordy wanted for his company. She still reign.
Diana was the Queen of Motown.....ask Valerie Simpson, HDH or anyone at Motown during that time.

Why are you pretending that they were not a group? Anything Diane was able to accomplish, was just an extension of what the Supremes accomplished. There would not have been a "Diana Ross" if it were not for "The Supremes". Her career is dead now anyway, so there's nothing to argue about here.

[imakicola]

It doesn't matter! They started as a group. But the background drama of it all undermined it and now it's all anyone talks about re: the supremes.

[captainjames]

The fact is that Florence s not on Reflections and Mary is questionable. The lead voice we know.

[marv2]

The fact is that Florence s not on Reflections and Mary is questionable. The lead voice we know.

It is not a fact that Florence Ballard is not on "Reflections". Mary has said that Flo is on that record.

[marv2]

Although I can hear Florence on that record, it says here she recorded it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflec...Supremes_song)

[marv2]

See, Mary says right here on page 204 of "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme" that Florence is on the record "Reflections". She should know, she was there with her in recording studio when they recorded it:

Attachment 12042

[marv2]

Captain James you've been listening to those "mysterious voices" in your head again and for all these years if you thought that Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard were not singing on the song "Reflections"! LOL!!!!

[bradsupremes]

See, Mary says right here on page 204 of "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme" that Florence is on the record "Reflections". She should know, she was there with her in recording studio when they recorded it.

Mary likes to protect Flo, the legacy and the image of the group. Mary will not publicly admit Florence is not on those songs. The fact is Flo missed recording sessions and she is not on several recordings. That's a fact. It's one of the reasons why she was fired. Florence not being on "Reflections" fits into the timeline of events beginning in April with Florence being sent home, Diana and Mary duo show, Marlene Barrow being flown in for the rest of the shows, the meeting at Gordy's mansion, Cindy's first appearance at the Hollywood Bowl, and then Florence's reappearance on Ed Sullivan. Listen to those vocals. It's pretty telling.