Diana Ross last Gown as a Supreme

[captainjames]

Can anyone confirm that this was the last Supreme gown worn by Diana Ross as a Supreme.

[Methuselah2]

That's the one.

Worn 1/14/70.
NEW FRONTIER HOTEL & CASINO.
Designer: Bob Mackie.

[RobertZ]

Sure looks like the gown in the "Farewell" booklet pics

[REDHOT]

Those gowns were design for The Supremes,for the G.I.T Special,for tv,with The Temptations.

[skooldem1]

The only down side to the Mary Wilson gown exhibit IMO, is the fact that many, if not all of the gowns have been altered. It takes away from the authenticity of it all.

[blackguy69]

you have to remember they had to fit whoever came in. most of the gown are still in its original design.

[supremester]

These gowns, perhaps my faves, have had their brilliant design mucked up. I got sick when I saw that Mary cut the fluted bottoms off. Don't get me started, I'm really glad they are surviving and on display, but I hate that these works of art were changed so much - not just for size. Why did they have to wear these anyway? They had tons of 70's gowns - when last worn,these were older than the balloon gowns from The Apollo were on Jan 14, 1970. Why were MSS wearing these? They should have been retired and treasured and preserved as the last DR&TS gowns worn.

[Methuselah2]

I think the dress in question had a short life span by design. Heavy jeweled sleeves paired with a very heavy velvet. Great for a TV special; probably torturous to perform in on stage because of the weight and heat. For TV, they were designed for specific size and purpose. But once the show was over and the personnel of the group started to change, the gowns had to be altered if they were still to be of use. It was unavoidable. But those gowns--as eye-catching as they were--were never meant for nightclub work.

[captainjames]

Well, I would have to agree this gown if it was the last one worn by Diana Ross should have been preserved. Also, I feel Flo's and Mary's last gown as a Supreme should have been preserved as well. That would have shown a better transition over a period of time and Supreme history.

[floyjoy678]

Does anyone know exactly what were Flo and Mary's last gowns worn as Supremes?

[supremester]

Clearly not meant for stage work, but maybe they were only used for TV by The 70s groupings. In any event, alterations are one thing, destroying the look of perhaps their best of their iconic wardrobe by eliminating the fluted bottoms for a cheap fix bites. Sadly, after seven plus years, they were still the best gowns JMC & their successors had. They needed a stylist badly, were there stylists back then?

I think the dress in question had a short life span by design. Heavy jeweled sleeves paired with a very heavy velvet. Great for a TV special; probably torturous to perform in on stage because of the weight and heat. For TV, they were designed for specific size and purpose. But once the show was over and the personnel of the group started to change, the gowns had to be altered if they were still to be of use. It was unavoidable. But those gowns--as eye-catching as they were--were never meant for nightclub work.

[Methuselah2]

"I'm goin' gown, gown, for the 3rd time":

This is just a guess but perhaps the original, beautiful hemline had to be sacrificed when the gown required shortening. Otherwise, the entire gown would have needed to be completely re-proportioned. Basically remade. And it still might not have worked well enough in the end. The fans love and admire the gowns. But for The Supremes, they were 'work uniforms' and had to be dealt with as such. I just wish full body shots of the gowns being worn had been taken, collected, and published.

[blackguy69]

I guess i never thought about it that way. also money was getting tighter and they had to recycle some of the gown. i will say this the late 60's gowns should've been retired by the time Scherrie came on board.

[captainjames]

Does anyone know exactly what were Flo and Mary's last gowns worn as Supremes?

Its hard to say with Flo because I honestly don't know when her last performance was with the Mary and Diana. Mary last performance was not in the US [[at least that is what I remember). I think they wore the Batwings outfits at that time.

[thomas96]

Can someone here help me understand why some people are so fascinated by the Supremes' gowns?

[blackguy69]

i think Mary has the last gown she wore as a Supremes.

[blackguy69]

i think i know this answer. Flo last apperance they were wearing tuxedo suits. for Mary it was the Green dresses with the sequin top and the puffy flowing bottoms.

[captainjames]

i think i know this answer. Flo last apperance they were wearing tuxedo suits. for Mary it was the Green dresses with the sequin top and the puffy flowing bottoms.

Thanks that will help.

[supremester]

Probably not. As Maude Findlay once retorted, "If you have to ask, it doesn't matter." Assuming your question is not some passive/aggressive attempt to show disapproval or contempt for the topic, I'll ask you: What type of answer would suffice? Like: WHY Supremes gowns? Why gowns at all? Would you go to a Lionel board if there is one and ask why the fascination with cabooses? A chess forum about a certain move? A stamp forum about a certain imperfection? On a board like this where catalog numbers, written numbers on vinyl margins, pressing differentials and like minutiae are all discussed, it's an interesting question. Would all of these things and the millions like them need explaining - or just Supremes gowns? Have you ever thought about why whatever fascinates you, fascinates YOU? How would you answer? I used to ask my straight friends what it was about a certain part of the female anatomy that fascinates them so - the answer? "They just do."

The real answer is that The Supremes gowns were famous for their class, expense and bling and became part of The group's legend. Often in press releases, the fact that some gowns cost $5000 each [[in 1969 dollars) was mentioned. On a more simple level, being a group loved by millions, their clothes, like The Beatles suits are iconic and treasured parts of the Supremes legacy. Enough are fascinated that the gowns travel around the world for viewing.

Can someone here help me understand why some people are so fascinated by the Supremes' gowns?

[supremester]

LOL... good line ; )

Yur right of course, I was just sad to see them that way at the exhibit. You have to admit it was thoughtless of Mary to alter my fave gowns so drastically without even running the idea by me first.

"I'm goin' gown, gown, for the 3rd time":

This is just a guess but perhaps the original, beautiful hemline had to be sacrificed when the gown required shortening. Otherwise, the entire gown would have needed to be completely re-proportioned. Basically remade. And it still might not have worked well enough in the end. The fans love and admire the gowns. But for The Supremes, they were 'work uniforms' and had to be dealt with as such. I just wish full body shots of the gowns being worn had been taken, collected, and published.

[sup_fan]

i didn't have too much of a problem with the reusing of the gowns. they'd become iconic within show business. also they'd invested TONS of money in the wardrobe. i think it would have been foolish to simply "hang them up" after a few wearings. even Diana reused costumes over the years.

with each new grouping, new alterations had to be made. they had to see what gown fit whom, what ones could be easily altered based on the changes needed, style, etc. the 70s groupings did have a lot of outfits made for them. there are about 169 or so sets of outfits for the girls from 61 - 77. about 1/3 were from the 70s.

what i didn't like was when a gown was significantly altered stylistically. like the green swirl TCB gowns. one had odd armband/sleeve added, another a short cape. and the neckerchief was discarded.

[sup_fan]

also the orange pantsuits worn on the final Hollywood Palace show were the actual last gowns DESIGNED for DRATS. but you're right, the black velvet Bolero outfit was the last one worn. it was designed for GIT which was taped in late summer/fall 69.

[supremester]

I hated the changes to the swirl gowns as well, plus, they were really not intended for wear into The 70's as styles had changed so. The swirls were stupendous for 1968 - mind boggling in design for the day, in fact. Those shots in the sand box are absurd. they did use the rainbow sequin gowns in the 70s and they worked real well. I think I saw them in the gold pleated sleeves too.

Certainly Miss ross is getting a lot of mileage out of her closet - the black velvet that wowed The AMAs so much I have seen for decades, but she's not trying to prove herself anymore. JMC needed a stylist or designer very bad to work on their total looks. That last outfit they wore on Merv was killer and Jean had finally, IMHO, become a star but I guess it was too late for her as she quit soon after.

[bradsupremes]

Don't believe everything you read online about the gowns. There's one person in particular who has given out so much false information about the gowns that they have duped a lot of people into believing these lies as fact. Especially when they've never had access to gowns. This will be corrected though in time.

[blackguy69]

Which outfit was that

[sup_fan]

the JMC did have a new stylist. their look evolved into more modern pantsuits and afros post Diana. they had about 7 new sets in the first year/year and a half. by later in 71 they started getting into some other new outfits - blue hot pants with red statin halters and lace-up shoes, worn on the intro to Flip Wilson, the short white jersey gowns from Stephen Burrows that they wore for their big Central Park concert and the stylist also did totally new looks for them with their hair and jewelry. there was the lavender sequin gowns which could have the skirts removed and then paired with black pants and black jackets.

i think the problems might have started when Cindy left. IMO that's also when tensions started to rise with motown too. 71 had been a bit of a hit and miss year. nathan jones hit while Touch and You Gotta Have Love tanked. they were ready to rebound with Floy Joy but then Cindy left and that cause more upheaval. Lynda came in and then the singles really started failing [[not because of her though). so the group's sound was totally in flux here too. they tried some new looks - the big baggy floral gowns they wore for an opening in LA [[hideous lol) the simple chiffon gowns from Kate Smith special. they also were ready to do the wig commercials but then the group really splintered and so that ended that

with Scherrie coming on board, they seemed to revert back to sequin gowns. with disco on the rise, glitter and glam was becoming more in style again. after the grittiness of the early 70s. Pat Campano was their new stylist here. and he did the majority of the outfits from here on out. they kept the glitter but i wonder if they could have done more with the looks of the times - something more Halston-esqe.

[blackguy69]

Does anyone know which gowns were destroyed in that Mexico City fire. I think Mary said 8 sets were destroyed and most of them were from the drats period

[sup_fan]

from what i've heard:

1. the yellow indian maiden gowns from GIT
2. the gold Dolman sleeves from GIT and final DRATS Ed Sullivan
3. the black beaded "Forever Came Today" gowns
4. the fireworks pantsuit from No Matter What Sign You Are
5. the gold sequins from cover of Right On
6. the black and white sequin gowns - one of the first MSC gowns. mary had white, cindy was black and scherrie was a checkered pattern of b&w. they were remade shortly after
7. the red and gold MSC gowns from All I Want on Sonny & Cher - the sleeves were melted and remade

another gown that was rumored to be in Mexico City were the short white gowns from MJC in Central Park. pics of MSC in these outfits exist and were taken shortly after Scherrie joined and prior to Mexico City fire. never seen again. they're also rumored to be in the Smithsonian as a [[currently undisplayed) exhibit in the African American museum as Stephen Burrows, the designer, was an african american designer. to be honest, i'm not sure. just sharing info from a few sources online

[blackguy69]

from what i've heard:

1. the yellow indian maiden gowns from GIT
2. the gold Dolman sleeves from GIT and final DRATS Ed Sullivan
3. the black beaded "Forever Came Today" gowns
4. the fireworks pantsuit from No Matter What Sign You Are
5. the gold sequins from cover of Right On
6. the black and white sequin gowns - one of the first MSC gowns. mary had white, cindy was black and scherrie was a checkered pattern of b&w. they were remade shortly after
7. the red and gold MSC gowns from All I Want on Sonny & Cher - the sleeves were melted and remade

another gown that was rumored to be in Mexico City were the short white gowns from MJC in Central Park. pics of MSC in these outfits exist and were taken shortly after Scherrie joined and prior to Mexico City fire. never seen again. they're also rumored to be in the Smithsonian as a [[currently undisplayed) exhibit in the African American museum as Stephen Burrows, the designer, was an african american designer. to be honest, i'm not sure. just sharing info from a few sources online

what about the beige chandelier dresses they wore from 67 thru 72. i never saw them again after lynda left

[sup_fan]

a few other noteworthy gowns have gone missing, aside from all of the older Flo era ones which are MIA too. again, just sharing info the Stephen and others have discussed in various forums. i'm not privy to the info that Brad has, since he worked with mary. would love to hear more of his stories and if i'm misquoting anything, please correct.

White pantsuits - MJC wore many times, cover of Greatest Hits and Rare Classics. MJL wore on Soul Train. Mary writes about a set of gowns that went to the designer for repairs, only to be stolen and never located. supposedly its this set

maternity outfits - mary had several maternity gowns added to the Scherrie era sets. the green chiffon, red sequins, zebras, the b&w ones redone from the mex fire, and a gown set that's been called Stardust [[not sure if that's really the name) which is pale blue and is pictured in the Let Yourself Go cd set

Gowns that were altered - the green chiffon ones underwent a few alterations. the bodice was a sequin pattern, sort of like a snakeskin design. i think they had sequins added to the skirts to give them more "oomph" when under stage lighting, scherries neckline was originally a serpent and this was redone. mary also had these odd sleeve/cuffs that went on her forearms. i've only seen 1 pic of these. her maternity dress was added later

[marybrewster]

the JMC did have a new stylist. their look evolved into more modern pantsuits and afros post Diana. they had about 7 new sets in the first year/year and a half. by later in 71 they started getting into some other new outfits - blue hot pants with red statin halters and lace-up shoes, worn on the intro to Flip Wilson, the short white jersey gowns from Stephen Burrows that they wore for their big Central Park concert and the stylist also did totally new looks for them with their hair and jewelry. there was the lavender sequin gowns which could have the skirts removed and then paired with black pants and black jackets.

i think the problems might have started when Cindy left. IMO that's also when tensions started to rise with motown too. 71 had been a bit of a hit and miss year. nathan jones hit while Touch and You Gotta Have Love tanked. they were ready to rebound with Floy Joy but then Cindy left and that cause more upheaval. Lynda came in and then the singles really started failing [[not because of her though). so the group's sound was totally in flux here too. they tried some new looks - the big baggy floral gowns they wore for an opening in LA [[hideous lol) the simple chiffon gowns from Kate Smith special. they also were ready to do the wig commercials but then the group really splintered and so that ended that

with Scherrie coming on board, they seemed to revert back to sequin gowns. with disco on the rise, glitter and glam was becoming more in style again. after the grittiness of the early 70s. Pat Campano was their new stylist here. and he did the majority of the outfits from here on out. they kept the glitter but i wonder if they could have done more with the looks of the times - something more Halston-esqe.

This is one of the best posts I've read in a long time.

I have a couple of my own theories as well; perhaps as the line-ups kept changing, Mary brought back some of the "iconic" gowns, simply because of the familiarity with the fans.

As these dresses were being altered, I don't think anyone, including Mary, had the mindset of someday these will make a good exhibition. I think simply, it was just use what you got. Mary was still wearing some of these dresses into the 1980's; the green "swirl" dress comes to mind, as well as the one shoulder, "ink spots".

Mary had a stylist in the 80's, Allen Poe, which is when most, if not all, of the Supremes gowns were retired. Allen designed her white "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Dress", as well as several others [[including a black bustier-style dress). These dresses had matching sleeveless gloves, with feathers.

It was when The Supremes were inducted, and the Motown Cafe's opened, that there suddenly was interest in all of the gowns. Mary was smart to have hung on to some of them; most of them. Some have slipped through the cracks; some were loaned and never returned, some perhaps are still in the archives at Motown.

[sup_fan]

here are pics of the Mex fire gowns. also i forgot one from the fire - the chandelier gowns from Tennessee Ernie Ford special

Attachment 8733
Attachment 8734
Attachment 8735
Attachment 8736
Attachment 8737
Attachment 8738
Attachment 8739
Attachment 8740
Attachment 8741

this last one is the pic i reference where MSC are in the white Central Park dresses for one of the last times

[sup_fan]

forgot the gold ones

Attachment 8742

and there's the green gowns with the original serpent neckline and mary's sleeve

Attachment 8743
Attachment 8744

here's the white pantsuits that are MIA

Attachment 8745

[sup_fan]

here are some various outfits that seem to only appear briefly

these were the gowns that Randy T said were designed for the MJL opening at the Grove in LA. said they were used once and then never again. not sure why - maybe they didn't like, or were experimenting with a designer. i believe the pic was colorized and that these are the actual gown colors

Attachment 8746

there was an article about this guy being hired to design new looks for the girls. he's in the pink with the girls

Attachment 8747
Attachment 8748

here are the hot pants from Flip Wilson. rather fierce! lol

Attachment 8749

here's an interesting pic. this definitely looks like they're on the set for Glenn Campbell. no idea what they're wearing though. not the pink pantsuits we saw on tv.

Attachment 8750

[blackguy69]

I know one of mary's maternity dresses was on display [[ the green one). I did see a pic of her in the red one during her solo debut in 1979

[skooldem1]

What were the details surrounding this fire?

[blackguy69]

i never knew they wore the hot pants on stage. thats pretty bold

[sup_fan]

the girls were getting sassy in the 70s lol

as for the fire, i'm not sure. i've heard it was an electrical fire, a careless cigarette.

i heard they were also traveling with those brown sequin pantsuits with the feather coats. those were in a trunk or outside of the room or something and weren't damaged. so they had to make due with those. there's a pic of MCS on a mexican temple in the beginning of the Let Yourself Go booklet. i'm wondering if it's from this period

[sup_fan]

MaryBrewster - i agree! i could talk about the gowns for hours lolol. and while i know some fans find it silly or bit superficial, style and image was a HUGE component to the Supremes. so i think it warrants discussions among the fans.

[blackguy69]

is it possible to view the booklet online would love to see ut

[Philles/Motown Gary]

There's no doubt about it -- The Supremes were the best-dressed of all of Motown's female performers. I've gotta say, however, that I've always cringed [[and still do) whenever I see a photo or a video of any version of the 1970's Supremes wearing gowns leftover from the glory days with Diana. Seeing the ladies dressed in the TCB and GIT On Broadway gowns is but a sad reminder that Berry Gordy had washed his hands of the group, thus forcing the girls to settle for instantly-recognizable hand-me-downs which had to be a slap in the face to the girls. I have the utmost respect for Berry, but, damn....the '70's Supremes were highly talented, too, and deserved so much better.

[skooldem1]

How does one know what gowns were in the fire? Is it because they were never seen again, or worn by the group in the 70's? Are there any gowns that were thought to have been in the fire, but resurfaced? Why were all those gowns in storage in Mexico?

[reese]

How does one know what gowns were in the fire? Is it because they were never seen again, or worn by the group in the 70's? Are there any gowns that were thought to have been in the fire, but resurfaced? Why were all those gowns in storage in Mexico?

The gowns weren't in storage in Mexico. The girls were doing an engagement there and there was a fire in their dressing room, resulting in nine sets of gowns being destroyed.

[blackguy69]

It was 8 sets that were destroyed

[supremester]

Remember WHY berry washed his hands of the group? it wasn't like he did it to be mean or hurtful to the group. He thought Jean was wrong and knew how important the front woman to the group was. He didn't want to be saddled with struggling to put a group over he didn't believe in and Mary didn't care. She defied him and tired of arguing with her at the busiest time in his professional life, he gave her the ultimatum. Berry washed his hands, but Mary turned on the faucet and handed him the soap. Each woman was very talented, definitely true.
The look of The Supremes and DR&TS was not determined by Berry Gordy but by Miss Ross. She demanded those gowns and had a hand in designing some of them and, I believe, approved all of them. Gordy had nothing to do with The 70's supremes look because Mary took charge. All gowns were paid for by the act, Gordy only gave front money to acts with no money in the bank [[like The No Hit Supremes.) JMC didn't have to wear hand-me-downs - they chose to. Remember that every bit of choreography, set, costume, hair stylist was billed against the group. Motown gave nothing to established acts but attention - and they charged for that as well. That's how Miss Ross was able to play arenas for years around the world at top dollar, make movies and sell millions of records with a fraction of her intake to show for it.

There's no doubt about it -- The Supremes were the best-dressed of all of Motown's female performers. I've gotta say, however, that I've always cringed [[and still do) whenever I see a photo or a video of any version of the 1970's Supremes wearing gowns leftover from the glory days with Diana. Seeing the ladies dressed in the TCB and GIT On Broadway gowns is but a sad reminder that Berry Gordy had washed his hands of the group, thus forcing the girls to settle for instantly-recognizable hand-me-downs which had to be a slap in the face to the girls. I have the utmost respect for Berry, but, damn....the '70's Supremes were highly talented, too, and deserved so much better.

[sup_fan]

supremester - you're definitely right. Gordy wasn't the one that was into or demanded haute couture. the look and style of the girls was their own. it happened to also marry up nicely with his desire to have a cross-over act that could take on the high-brow night club circuit. that required a level of sophistication that frankly wasn't evident in motown's other acts. true - you don't need bugle beads, chiffon and glamor to play the Copa. but the glitz lent itself nicely to this.

in looking at the candid, casual pics of DMF, they were fashionable from the start. the outfits they wore in press pics and non-studio photos were impressive. Diana might have had the most interest in fashion, given her background and studies. but mary certainly had a strong sense of it too. flo and cindy also.

i do think that the glamor came to haunt them a bit. by the early 70s an earthier look was more prominent. less plastic.

[supremester]

I think The Supremes look was fashioned by Ross - I know she worked with designers because Bob Mackie talks about it, and, clearly, their stage wear in the 70s was not up to snuff [[IMHO) - some downright hideous. You can be fashionable and not have the ideal eye for that. In any event, they did chase their image rather than morphing and owning a changing look. My friend saw JMC or JML in Chicago and they wore hotpants and looked sensational. But they needed a visionary - a focus - a direction - a boldness - and I think they didn't have it. The other girl groups made them seem old and matronly at times. When I see that Merv show where Jean does that amazing I Guess I'll Miss The Man, she looks like a star and owns it - but I think even if Mary did have the vision, she seemed to not have the social authority with JML anyway because it never manifested itself in much to look at other than that one look and, even it was hardly a forward look. It's tough trying to keep a group on top for more than a few years. The Supremes had 7-8 big years - that's better than almost any other group I can think of.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Remember WHY berry washed his hands of the group? it wasn't like he did it to be mean or hurtful to the group. He thought Jean was wrong and knew how important the front woman to the group was. He didn't want to be saddled with struggling to put a group over he didn't believe in and Mary didn't care. She defied him and tired of arguing with her at the busiest time in his professional life, he gave her the ultimatum. Berry washed his hands, but Mary turned on the faucet and handed him the soap. Each woman was very talented, definitely true.
The look of The Supremes and DR&TS was not determined by Berry Gordy but by Miss Ross. She demanded those gowns and had a hand in designing some of them and, I believe, approved all of them. Gordy had nothing to do with The 70's supremes look because Mary took charge. All gowns were paid for by the act, Gordy only gave front money to acts with no money in the bank [[like The No Hit Supremes.) JMC didn't have to wear hand-me-downs - they chose to. Remember that every bit of choreography, set, costume, hair stylist was billed against the group. Motown gave nothing to established acts but attention - and they charged for that as well. That's how Miss Ross was able to play arenas for years around the world at top dollar, make movies and sell millions of records with a fraction of her intake to show for it.

Yeah, Supremester, but Mary had a good point. How could Berry change his mind AFTER Jean had already been introduced at the Farewell performance as Diana’s replacement? [[If I recall, Jean had already been rehearsing with Mary and Cindy, hadn’t she?)


Regarding the gowns, after learning that The Supremes went from chauffeur-driven limos to having to call their own taxi, it just rubs me the wrong way when I see the girls wearing gowns left over from the glory days with Diana, just as it would bother me to have seen Diana wearing gowns left over from DRATS in her new solo act. Maybe it's just me, but....it seems sad.

[blackguy69]

A good number of gowns were still new when Diana left did we expect them to replace them all once she left?

[sup_fan]

DMC wore quite a few gowns from the DMF era - so what's the difference simply because it was jean joining and diana leaving. and it wasn't just the transition months either after Flo left. the pink chiffon and the white sequin with the diagonal pearl stripes were worn for years after Flo.