This demands an answer.
Quote Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard View Post
There may well be differences in law enforcement between the US and the UK.

With regard to drivers, the police here in the UK have the powers to pull over any motorist for any suspected offence. Technically, that means no matter how minor.
In the US, pulling someone over because they have a "wide set nose" is considered a violation of their Constitutional rights. As is pulling them over for simply being non-White in the wrong area. It happens frequently and although complaints are affirmed through the courts, it happens consistently with no ramifications to the offending agencies.
In reality, the time and administration work involved means that a light being inoperative, or other minor offence, often does not result in the driver being stopped.

The police officers are most likely to respond when the way the vehicle is being driven arouses suspicion - and especially when immediately alerted by computer that a passing vehicle has a suspect registration.
Again, in this case and many others, the car was pulled over because the driver was Black. Read the first posts in this thread. They have the time to do things like this and since there are no consequences, they do. YouTube is full of videos of it. Bully for the Brits with their computers, but in the US they don't need a computer to help concoct reasons to pull people over.
Most incidents when motorists are stopped are dealt with courteously, and with an appropriate degree of firmness.
The passenger complied with the officer's instructions and was killed for doing so. Is that firm enough or worthy of concern?
All forces train their officers to see that the law is observed by everyone, irrespective of ethnicity - for example, of drivers and/or passengers. The police are expected to observe this, and all nationalities living within the UK are expected to understand and accept this. Unless circumstances in individual cases can be proved otherwise, it is simply the law of the land.
US police training typically provides 60 hours of legal training in ~nine months of training in the academies. A far cry from the four years that lawyers spend trying to learn the same laws. Not just that, but very few police departments have diversity training or emphasis on how to do their jobs without profiling.
All that said, it is a hard fact that, for whatever reason, reported crime in London committed by black people is significantly higher than the percentage of black people in that population. That is a statistic to be read by anyone, whether they be white, black or from any other background.

It should not prejudice the response of the police officers in London, but there is an understandable need to be especially vigilant of suspicious behaviour by some black people, when obliged to make a swift judgement in any situation. It is their job to do so.
And when I mention that slavery was a situation that had White people standing over Black people with whips for centuries in our country, they say "well, that wasn't me". How about White peoples destroying the Incan and Mayan cultures, killing six million Jews in concentration camps, and ruling over India and African nations with guns and iron thumbs?

You'll suggest that I'm reaching with this response, but typically [[again), White people say "well, I didn't do that". It appears that you're saying that a Black lawyer [[or president) should be looked at with a curious eye because "for whatever reason, reported crime by Black people is significantly higher than the percentage of Black people in the population". And what is "suspicious behavior"? We have a phenomenon here known as "driving while Black", which for too many cops is a reason to pull someone over. So, would I be a suspect in spite of the fact that I've never committed a crime in England or the US?
The one essential difference between the US and UK national police forces is the fact that UK officers, male and female, do not carry guns, unless in exceptional circumstances.

My understanding is that the US officers seem to carry guns on all occasions, even for traffic offences?
They're even required to carry sidearms when they are off-duty.
A gun in the hands of an irrational person, no matter what their ethnic background may be, or what uniform they may be wearing, is likely to lead to random action, with tragic results. We don't seem to be hearing too much from our black friends on the forum in the US about the white victims in similar, tragic circumstances. It surely must happen??
There is typically no psychological training involved with police recruits and often none available after cops shoot people in the line of duty. Black suspects [[even when they aren't suspected of crimes) are killed at a frequency that is three times that of White suspects in similar situations. Black men account for 6% of the US population but they are 40% of the unarmed people killed by police. Unarmed. Forget the two cases this week when they had guns but were not a threat to use them. I'm talking about people who in some cases are walking away and clearly no threat to the officers who are compelled to use deadly force only when protecting their lives or the life of others.

And White people are also murdered by police but with less frequency. There has been a dustup recently about Dylan Noble, a White man who was shot after a short pursuit in San Diego. He exited his truck under gunpoint and was shot with his hands up. After he lay on the ground for 14 seconds, they shot him to death without attempting to call for medical assistance or even to actually arrest him. It turns out, he was not the suspect that they were looking for and he was unarmed. Black Lives Matter has brought attention to his death although national media has largely ignored it. So yeah, it's a bigger problem than just cops killing Black people. Sadly, it's a bigger problem for us than for other Americans.
Recent events involving the police in the US, particularly concerning some black victims, is appalling to those of us here, when viewed from our distance.

It seems to be the widespread possession of guns in the US which has led to these situations, not simply that the victims were black.
There are more guns in the hands of White people than Black people. And if you think it's appalling from a distance, come hang out for a few weeks and take a closer look.
It also does seem that the black population could and should support their 'brothers' far more positively, working together without the use of violence, on both sides of the Atlantic.

For example, can our black friends here confirm if they have ever trained or worked for any police force, or any emergency work which serves the general public - which includes their own race?
Why'd you bring peace into the conversation? Until Wednesday night, there was not a violent act associated with the "Black Lives Matter" movement. We've been extremely peaceful. Most cops killed in the past decade and beyond were killed by White suspects.

And no, I haven't worked with community action organizations. So you have me there.
Also, do our black friends here think that more black officers would lessen the incidence of other black people being shot dead for what certainly appears to be tragically wrong reasons?

Or, is it far more expedient for our black friends here to regard all black people [[including themselves) as 'victims', and simply to regard [[generally white) police officers as 'pigs', as quoted?
No, Black cops are just as violent as White cops. More over, in places like Baltimore. Cops should be required to live within the communities that they serve. Otherwise they patrol like members of an occupying force as opposed to civilians who are there to preserve order. They have totally alienated citizens in some communities by harassing people for small or no reason and those folks no longer work with them to report criminal activity. It's ridiculous.

I call cops who kill people without cause "pigs". I'm offended that you suggest that I refer to White cops as pigs. You've never read that and the fact that you assumed there was a race angle toward my use of the word tells me a bit about your worldview. Sadly, many White people think that this movement is because Black people want to complain about something that most White people refuse to acknowledge. Even some of our - to borrow your words - White friends here at Soulful Detroit.
In the UK, the black members of the population would seem to form a smaller percentage of the general population than in the US. For whatever reason, it seems difficult to recruit a sufficient percentage black officers to adequately represent the black population on both sides of the Atlantic, although I believe there has been some success in some US regions.

It is a hard reality that police forces, [[as with the general population), are indeed predominantly white, and it can be a hard, dangerous and potentially fatal job for some officers, at least at times. It must be assumed that most officers who fall below the required standard will then indeed be white.
The current movement has roots in an incident that occurred in Ferguson, Missouri. The police force in Ferguson had 47 White cops and two Black cops on it, even though the community is 70% Black. There was no shortage of Black recruits or available candidates within the community.