DRATS/REFLECTIONS - Live! At The Roostertail, 1967 - Recording Only

[marv2]

I think people discuss it because it interests them and they enjoy things that interest them. Those who don't find it interests them will hopefully find more interesting topics that will interest them. This topic interests me. I like knowing who is who. It's not a dig at Flo & Mary: the world's greatest bg singers ever IMHO. They can't supply everything needed always and can't always be where needed or slept in or was late [[AGAIN) and studio time was very very limited. They used Syretta as Martha Reeves for heaven's sake - this is nothing compared to that. AS for RTL, the three bg singerswere hired for Diana's half of the show. Also, depening on the day since inception, there was personnel offstage to augment MAry & Cindy if needed to round out the sound. Certainly for Love Is Here & Lovelight, but Cindy needed some support - no harm in that. After Scherrie & Lynda joined - who both are much stronger singers than Mary & Cindy - and who needed no support except on chorale pieces. RTL is a sad topic for most except the thousands who saw and loved it and of course, the cast and crew who got paid for the entire tour and only had to do 9 shows. Everybody did well financially except TNT/SFX who took it in the shorts and learned to not screw with Miss Ross, who has been gracious enough to allow SFX/Live Nation to produce dozens of her post RTL shows in North and South America.

First of all Scherrie and Lynda are NOT stronger singers than Mary Wilson! I've heard how they sound recently.

If only SFX was hurt behind the dismal failure of RTL, then why did Diane start drinking so heavily that she was forced into rehab several times after the collapse of that tour?

[marv2]

by coincidence:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIANA-ROSS-T...-/310424789998

I am sure this is something Diane would prefer to forget and for us not to talk about anymore.....LOL!

[revvy]

In a group situation, the blend is very important. For all practical purposes, Diana, Lynda and Scherrie are solo singers. Mary and Cindy are background singers who blend in nicely with the strength of a lead singer like Diana or Jean. Mary only recently came into her own as a strong jazz solo singer. Diana, Scherrie and Lynda did NOT blend well together. They looked good, though...except in those gaudy pink jumpsuits. They just didn't look or sound like the Supremes to me and that's why I boycotted the tour.

[supremester]

Well, you may recall that Miss Ross was dealing with menopause at the time and was unable to take advantage of hormonal therapy which can cause horrendous emotions. Also, a little thing like the dissolution of her marriage compounded by the toll it would take on her boys. Add to that Motown's extreme unhappiness at her cancelling all publicity for EDIAND - including the 35 city US tour- add all the unpleasantness with RTL and you have a person ripe for substance issues. Especially when your antidepressant works so incredibly well with alcohol. The beating in the press about RTL broke the camel's back, but it was all the above. RTL was just booked in too large of a venue for most cities. I'm sure had she booked it in trailer parks, it would have sold out at every stop. Four years later, she gave the concert of her life and has won raves for her shows around the world ever since. She's in a great place. I'm happy for her. If she wanted to do a Supremes thing, she could just snap her fingers and make it happen. Motown would give her carte blanche for a tour, album......anything. Only I don't think she wanna. Wonder why? QUOTE=marv2;171355]First of all Scherrie and Lynda are NOT stronger singers than Mary Wilson! I've heard how they sound recently.

If only SFX was hurt behind the dismal failure of RTL, then why did Diane start drinking so heavily that she was forced into rehab several times after the collapse of that tour?[/QUOTE]

[marv2]

Well, you may recall that Miss Ross was dealing with menopause at the time and was unable to take advantage of hormonal therapy which can cause horrendous emotions.?

[/QUOTE]

I don't know nothing about her menopause. I do know that millions of women go through it without becoming full blown alcoholics that need to be put in rehab. She was drunk all the time after the public slapped her and her RTL tour down. I hear her fans try to cover up for her or make excuses about ticket prices too high, arena's too big. The reason no one wanted to see it was that it was missing Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong. People did not go through all the trouble of checking ticket prices only then to decide that they would not be attending the shows. They decided the moment they learned that Mary and Cindy [[the Supremes) Diana Ross had worked with would not be a part of the tour. Diane had to suffer the very public embarrassment of learning that she was not such the huge concert draw that she and the promoters thought she was. LOL!!!!

[antceleb12]

In a group situation, the blend is very important. For all practical purposes, Diana, Lynda and Scherrie are solo singers. Mary and Cindy are background singers who blend in nicely with the strength of a lead singer like Diana or Jean. Mary only recently came into her own as a strong jazz solo singer. Diana, Scherrie and Lynda did NOT blend well together. They looked good, though...except in those gaudy pink jumpsuits. They just didn't look or sound like the Supremes to me and that's why I boycotted the tour.

You're exactly correct. Scherrie and Lynda have these big, booming voices that work well with solo singing, but are not so practical for three-part blending. I love me some 70s Supremes, but after the JMC era, the line-ups were too powerhouse-driven. The 70s Supremes had the soul, but the 60s Supremes had the blend down to a pat.

[supremester]

Well, just a few months before, she discussed her menopause issues on Oprah. and not every singer has a coke problem for a decade and a half and cozies up to audience members to hustle a bottle of Dom off them either. Everyone is different.
Yeah, people do check ticket prices, everyone I know does, but certainly some had wanted to see DMC. Some believed Mary's lies to the press and felt bad about the tour [[fake Supremes, the money lies etc). It's not like the world was clamoring to see Mary Wilson - her Sophisticated Ladies disaster - in much smaller venues at much smaller prices made RTL look like The Tour Of The Century LOL.

I don't know nothing about her menopause. I do know that millions of women go through it without becoming full blown alcoholics that need to be put in rehab. She was drunk all the time after public slapped her and her RTL tour down. I hear her fans try to cover up for her or make excuses about ticket prices too high, arena's too big. The reason no one wanted to see it was that it was missing Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong. People did not go through all the trouble of checking ticket prices only then to decide that they would not be attending the shows. They decided the moment they learned that Mary and Cindy [[the Supremes) Diana Ross had worked with would not be a part of the tour. Diane had to suffer the very public embarrassment of learning that she was not such the huge concert draw that she and the promoters thought she was. LOL!!!![/QUOTE]

[revvy]

You're exactly correct. Scherrie and Lynda have these big, booming voices that work well with solo singing, but are not so practical for three-part blending. I love me some 70s Supremes, but after the JMC era, the line-ups were too powerhouse-driven. The 70s Supremes had the soul, but the 60s Supremes had the blend down to a pat.

The voice of reason. Thank you antceleb12.

[revvy]

You need to see a therapist my dear cause its real real clear that you need help getting over RTL . You seem more than a tad obsess with a tour from 13 years ago. It aint healthy sweetie and for the good of your health you need to get over it.

Roberta

Roberta, if you don't pipe down, Marv and I are going to hunt you down, take you out and bury you with that precious bible in your hand, so KNOCK IT OFF!

[Roberta75]

Roberta, if you don't pipe down, Marv and I are going to hunt you down, take you out and bury you with that precious bible in your hand, so KNOCK IT OFF!

If you are serious then i could pass your threatening posting onto the law authorities. If you are joking then heres my response.

Awwww.........you and Marv are a couple? Thats real sweet. ive got the perfect wedding gift for you two. A real good quality tape of RTL at Madison square Garden. You can snuggle up in front of a nice warm fire and warch Diane and Lynda and Sherrie in all they glory.

Bless you both.

Roberta

[jobeterob]

Brad, you should get together with someone like Andy and start the definitive list of who sang on the Motown songs ~ while the fans who were there are still around and people who were there were still around.

[ralpht]

Revvy has been banned for life, Roberta. That kind of thing does not fly here. Sorry you were subjected to that.

[Roberta75]

Revvy has been banned for life, Roberta. That kind of thing does not fly here. Sorry you were subjected to that.

Thank you dear Ralph.

[supremester]

Hey - I know things can get dicey here, but threats and religious insults might be reconsidered. We are here kind of because we love the same stuff and getting personal like that is, IMO, not cool. And it's been my experience that people who use the internet to act fierce are really, not. Kind of like the guys with giant wheels on their trucks...... Let's get zesty but, maybe, not quite so fervent.

Roberta, if you don't pipe down, Marv and I are going to hunt you down, take you out and bury you with that precious bible in your hand, so KNOCK IT OFF!

[jobeterob]

Uttering threats are uttering threats. It's a criminal offence. Just because it is online and possibly less traceable makes no difference. Ralph took the right action.

[smark21]

From Revvy’s beginning here at SDF, he’s shown an obsessive anger about the Return to Love tour and last night he went too far by using words that could easily be construed as a death threat. He’s a sick one and needs meds, therapy and institutionalization.

[luke]

Amen Marv. Hard to replace great singers and harmonizers like Mary and Cindy. How oh how how did they get all 3 Destinys Children into a studio when they did all that touring???Seemse kinda logical to me if the Surpemes were touring theyd probably be in the same town together and Berry could have rented a van and hauled all 3 into a local recording studio. What am I missing??

[marv2]

Amen Marv. Hard to replace great singers and harmonizers like Mary and Cindy. How oh how how did they get all 3 Destinys Children into a studio when they did all that touring???Seemse kinda logical to me if the Surpemes were touring theyd probably be in the same town together and Berry could have rented a van and hauled all 3 into a local recording studio. What am I missing??

You're not missing nothing..........except the truth if you read some of these posts here! LOL!

[ralpht]

Supermester,
If I don't zap crap like that right off the bat, it would just open the door for a floodgate of idiotic behavior. I have many forum members to consider.

[alexgarret]

Well, you need to keep an eye on Marv - one of the most disgusting internet posters around - if you want examples, we've got them. Thanks for keeping the board clean.

[Jimi LaLumia]

they had background singers at RTL to duplicate the records, which is what the show was all about..and the fact is that The Supremes records , 90% of them, had 'background singers',THE ANDANTES covering up for those other two..

[franjoy56]

what makes you thank Sandra and Lois are not on "Bless You, Bless Me" don't tell me the Andantes snuck into the studio again while the Vandellas were late getting there?

[supremester]

Oh yes, for sure. All had great voices, but MSS were a hot mess with three strong singers - some of their clips look like 3 lead singers competing with each other. JMC blended well in harmony like on Ed sullivan "...from now on it's gonna begin again .............' is perfect.

You're exactly correct. Scherrie and Lynda have these big, booming voices that work well with solo singing, but are not so practical for three-part blending. I love me some 70s Supremes, but after the JMC era, the line-ups were too powerhouse-driven. The 70s Supremes had the soul, but the 60s Supremes had the blend down to a pat.

[supremester]

Ralph,
I couldn't agree more. I have had VERY similar threats [[on other forums) by another lunatic. It's sick and cowardly to use or imply the use of force to climax a tantrum in that manner when someone doesn't get their own way. You do a great job here!

Supermester,
If I don't zap crap like that right off the bat, it would just open the door for a floodgate of idiotic behavior. I have many forum members to consider.

[supremester]

You are missing the producer's vision that might include other or additional voices. Most producers didn't care who was on the record - they just wanted to make the best record they could because they would make more money with a hit - regardless of vocal personnel. On the road, it complicates things because the bg has to be taught, worked through and often corrected and/or adjusted which could require the producer to be there. The lead can be done much easier on foreign soil without the producer there - although they could often go to the location.

Amen Marv. Hard to replace great singers and harmonizers like Mary and Cindy. How oh how how did they get all 3 Destinys Children into a studio when they did all that touring???Seemse kinda logical to me if the Surpemes were touring theyd probably be in the same town together and Berry could have rented a van and hauled all 3 into a local recording studio. What am I missing??

[supremester]

Well it doesn't sound like just two voices and it's been said by the late, GREAT Deke Richards, The TCMS booklet 1971 and by Martha herself. No, The andantes didn't sneak anywhere - they only sang where they were invited and paid. There was no cloak and dagger at all - The Andantes were a wonderful addition to tons of Motown tracks.

what makes you thank Sandra and Lois are not on "Bless You, Bless Me" don't tell me the Andantes snuck into the studio again while the Vandellas were late getting there?

[Ryon6]

For once, I agree with Marv when he states that folks are stretching the truth here regarding who's singing background on the Supremes' recordings. Though I find it interesting as to who may be singing what, the theories are really far-fetched. The fact is YOU SIMPLY DON'T KNOW. Some of this nonsense pisses me off and I simply stop reading this JUNK. It makes me want to leave the forum but it draws me back in day after day after day.

As far as the RTL concert, I attended in Atlanta and I felt I got my money worth though I wasn't going to the show at first. I simply changed my mind because I will see Diana whenever I can and I love Scherrie Payne as a singer. I was ecstatic when she joined the group as lead singer. I find her sexy as hell. I wonder how some of you figure that additional singers were used during the Supremes' segment of the show - from a recording? WOW! You must have plenty of time to study a tape of a show that is over 10 years old.

Now Marv, this is where I disagree with you. Both Scherrie and Lynda are much better or stronger singers than Mary. Don't get me wrong, I love Mary as a singer. I will see her whenever she comes to town. I saw her last month in the Lena Horne project and I will see her next month in concert with Paul Revere and another 60's pop group.

Supremes 4ever [[Florence, Mary, Diana and Cindy - classic group)

Tyrone

[Kamasu_Jr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGptF9Kf98w

Many thanks to Mactheox for the YouTube posting.

I thought this sounded familiar, it's from the Supremes Live/disc that was included in the Supremes box. Wonder if the entire show was recorded and/vaulted?