DRATS/REFLECTIONS - Live! At The Roostertail, 1967 - Recording Only

**Methuselah2** · 06-11-2013, 12:42 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGptF9Kf98w

Many thanks to Mactheox for the YouTube posting.

**marybrewster** · 06-11-2013, 01:47 PM

Were Mary and Cindy's mics at the Copa? LOL.

**jobeterob** · 06-11-2013, 02:00 PM

This live version makes me think that the Andantes were dubbed in to hit the high notes of the background on the 45.

Just like on You Can't Hurry Love live ~ the background doesn't sound the way it sounds on the 45.

supremester · 06-11-2013, 03:59 PM

I'm not a huge fan of Reflections - although when Miss Ross does it now, I like it better. I don't hear Mary & Flo on it period - perhaps they are there, I just can't hear it and I don't like the bg arrangement or mix at all on the record anyway.
Flo is not on You Can't Hurry Love so I guess that's why it sounds different. It might be why she went over the edge as it was their biggest record in two years and she wasn't involved. Unless you are old, you won't know how huge that record was - the charting for 2 weeks at #1 doesn't tell the whole story.

Originally Posted by jobeterob

This live version makes me think that the Andantes were dubbed in to hit the high notes of the background on the 45.

Just like on You Can't Hurry Love live ~ the background doesn't sound the way it sounds on the 45.

revvy · 06-11-2013, 02:20 PM

Not being able to hear Mary and Cindy is a disgrace. Cindy can hit the high notes just fine.

**marv2** · 06-11-2013, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by revvy

Not being able to hear Mary and Cindy is a disgrace. Cindy can hit the high notes just fine.

If you can't hear Mary or Cindy, why bother?

**TheMotownManiac** · 06-13-2013, 04:41 AM

A disgrace? A disgrace? Seriously? Who cares that much? Maybe they wanted it that way. Maybe the sound was off. Maybe Cindy didn't know it yet. geez, a disgrace? I disagree. I don't hear the audience yelling for more BG LOL Geez, do Vandellas fans have conniptions when they learn Sandra & Lois aren't on Bless You?

Originally Posted by revvy

Not being able to hear Mary and Cindy is a disgrace. Cindy can hit the high notes just fine.

**franjoy56** · 06-21-2013, 10:33 PM

what makes you thank Sandra and Lois are not on "Bless You, Bless Me" don't tell me the Andantes snuck into the studio again while the Vandellas were late getting there?

supremester · 06-22-2013, 01:18 AM

Well it doesn't sound like just two voices and it's been said by the late, GREAT Deke Richards, The TCMS booklet 1971 and by Martha herself. No, The andantes didn't sneak anywhere - they only sang where they were invited and paid. There was no cloak and dagger at all - The Andantes were a wonderful addition to tons of Motown tracks.

Originally Posted by franjoy56

what makes you thank Sandra and Lois are not on "Bless You, Bless Me" don't tell me the Andantes snuck into the studio again while the Vandellas were late getting there?

RossHolloway · 06-11-2013, 02:22 PM

I still think this song is about Florence leaving/breaking away from the Supremes.

**marybrewster** · 06-11-2013, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by RossHolloway

I still think this song is about Florence leaving/breaking away from the Supremes.

I think the song that's about Florence is "Keep an Eye":

"There used to be three of us, seen all over town, now there's only two; someone's missin', guess who".

RossHolloway · 06-11-2013, 04:00 PM

I always heard that song as the woman and her female friend all hanging out with her [[lead singers) boyfriend, and then all of a sudden, the lead singer is left behind because her girlfriend has taken her boyfriend from her.

**Methuselah2** · 06-11-2013, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by RossHolloway

I always heard that song as the woman and her female friend all hanging out with her [[lead singers) boyfriend, and then all of a sudden, the lead singer is left behind because her girlfriend has taken her boyfriend from her.

I totally agree with you, Ross--the "someone's missin'" of the three is the lead on the song. Any connection to it being a reference to Flo or the song being about Flo strikes me as a real stretch. A stretch that went "Pop!"

On this version of REFLECTIONS, Diana's voice is certainly much more prominent than that of Mary and Cindy. But I can still hear both clearly, and they sound great to me. But the sound level differences are apparent; could have been the mics or possibly adjustments made later in the processing of the recording. Live recordings can be dicey--but I always preferred equal time and space given to Flo, Mary, and Cindy. But the given seemed to be that it wouldn't be given. And live performances were best on those rare occasions when it was. On the 3 times that I got to attend performances by Diana, Mary, and Flo, I was there to see and hear Diana, Mary, and Flo.

RossHolloway · 06-11-2013, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Methuselah2

I totally agree with you, Ross--the "someone's missin'" of the three is the lead on the song. Any connection to it being a reference to Flo or the song being about Flo strikes me as a real stretch. A stretch that went "Pop!"

On this version of REFLECTIONS, Diana's voice is certainly much more prominent than that of Mary and Cindy. But I can still hear both clearly, and they sound great to me. But the sound level differences are apparent; could have been the mics or possibly adjustments made later in the processing of the recording. Live recordings can be dicey--but I always preferred equal time and space given to Flo, Mary, and Cindy. But the given seemed to be that it wouldn't be given. And live performances were best on those rare occasions when it was. On the 3 times that I got to attend performances by Diana, Mary, and Flo, I was there to see and hear Diana, Mary, and Flo.

Well if you think about the song Reflections, never once does the lyrics refer to a boyfriend/husband/lover, but rather the sadness and heartbreak over a broken relationship/friendship. And wouldn't HDH have known about the conflict and fights within the Supremes? The lyrics reflect on when the Supremes first got started before all the hits and fame when they were all just friends dreaming of making it big and the love that they all shared for one another. And then it was gone.

**TheMotownManiac** · 06-13-2013, 05:14 AM

Seriously? Interesting concept. The idea of the song came from Brian & Eddie hearing some guy named Russ Terranna[ using a tone generator while tuning the room. The loved the sound and ran and wrote Reflections. This was before the meeting at Berrys so it's unlikely that they wrote the song based on info they didn't have yet, but possible they heard something. Personally, I don't think they even thought about it. . QUOTE=RossHolloway;170751]I still think this song is about Florence leaving/breaking away from the Supremes.[/QUOTE]

**skooldem1** · 06-11-2013, 02:51 PM

Reflections is a great song. Sounds great here. Good strong vocal from Diana.

**marv2** · 06-11-2013, 04:13 PM

I can hear Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard on "Reflections". Mary still sings a line of her background part as a part of the lead she sings in concert now.

**detmotownguy** · 06-12-2013, 12:02 AM

Well rest assured....Mary/Flo/Cindy sang those songs live on stage for millions w/o an Andante backing them up. Obviously it was good enough for BG! History dictates that the world fell in love w/our girls DMF, and Cindy.

Originally Posted by marv2

I can hear Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard on "Reflections". Mary still sings a line of her background part as a part of the lead she sings in concert now.

**marv2** · 06-12-2013, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by detmotownguy

Well rest assured....Mary/Flo/Cindy sang those songs live on stage for millions w/o an Andante backing them up. Obviously it was good enough for BG! History dictates that the world fell in love w/our girls DMF, and Cindy.

Yes, yes, they also sang on the majority of the hit records.

supremester · 06-12-2013, 05:13 PM

History is defined in many ways. That history also could include The Andantes or Marlene Barrow. That history could just be Miss Ross as they hit #1 3 times without the public knowing anything but Ross' voice, HDH & the Funk Bros. Not all Supremes fans fell in love with all three. Some only liked Flo. Many liked all 3. Many only liked Miss Ross. I fell in love with Miss Ross first. Period. Then all three. When I first saw DMF in 1966, they were all goddesses in the round - always one facing us. Typical of Miss Ross however, by the time they got to I Hear A Symphony, she ramped it up enough that, while still wonderful, left the other two in the dust. Lots of fans only liked one or two. I didn't accept Cindy until Youtube. I was a fool not to see she was the ideal replacement. I see The Supremes as an entity of many pieces with the essentials being HDH, the Funk Bros and Miss Ross.

Originally Posted by detmotownguy

Well rest assured....Mary/Flo/Cindy sang those songs live on stage for millions w/o an Andante backing them up. Obviously it was good enough for BG! History dictates that the world fell in love w/our girls DMF, and Cindy.

**jobeterob** · 06-12-2013, 05:27 PM

Brad: Is the "other lady" hitting the high notes in the background on Reflections? Is it Cindy? Or Louvain Demps?

One song I hear Mary Wilson clearly on is Where Did Our Love Go. That is one song on which I do not hear Florence Ballard, but Mary is clearly there.

I think many Supremes fans need to take a listen to the 45 of Stop in the Name of Love and relearn the voices.

Other than Diana, nothing is clear any more.

supremester · 06-12-2013, 06:38 PM

Mary is so effective in WDOLG - impeccable. Flo fans could be having fits that Flo is buried, but don't. HDH/Motown were so adept at use of Bgs - they didn't care who was who - they wanted to make the best record possible. The grammatically incorrect slogan"It's what's in the grooves that counts" says it all.

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Brad: Is the "other lady" hitting the high notes in the background on Reflections? Is it Cindy? Or Louvain Demps?

One song I hear Mary Wilson clearly on is Where Did Our Love Go. That is one song on which I do not hear Florence Ballard, but Mary is clearly there.

I think many Supremes fans need to take a listen to the 45 of Stop in the Name of Love and relearn the voices.

Other than Diana, nothing is clear any more.

**bradsupremes** · 06-12-2013, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Brad: Is the "other lady" hitting the high notes in the background on Reflections? Is it Cindy? Or Louvain Demps?

Mary is singing the lower part of the harmony. The higher notes are "the other lady." It's not Cindy, but Louvain has said she didn't like "Reflections." Possibly could be her. Then again, Marlene Barrow was Florence's stand-in in concert and previous recording sessions. Could be her as well... A lot was going on at the time and a lot of tension.

**antceleb12** · 06-12-2013, 11:51 AM

The version of "Reflections" on the "No. 1's" album has drastically improved background vocals, including the oft-excluded bridge line sung by Mary and Flo.

For a while, I thought it was the Andantes [[or at least an Andante) on the record. The back-ups don't sound like Mary and Flo [[at least not to me), and it's always bothered me that the back-up vocals were so pushed back and muddled.

**jobeterob** · 06-12-2013, 01:22 PM

It became clear to me after the 45 of Stop in the Name of Love, that the sound I thought was the Supremes was often the sound of the Andantes.

Florence Ballard you can pick out here and there; but to me, Mary Wilson and the Andantes blend together way too much and I can't separate them very well except if there are high notes; if there are high notes [[like in Love Child and a part of the background in Reflections) I now know or expect that is the Andantes and not the Supremes.

**bradsupremes** · 06-12-2013, 04:32 PM

Mary Wilson is very much on "Reflections." The Andantes as a group are not on the song. There are only two women singing and one of them is Mary. The other lady is for you to decide...

supremester · 06-12-2013, 05:46 PM

I just played 3 versions of Reflections. I believe that Mary and Flo are doing the "oooooooooo's" and The Andantes are doing the muddled, nearly indecipherable backing words. I simply cannot discern Mary there at all, and only a maybe for Flo. I know there are those who hear Mary & Flo where they are not, so who is to say. Personally, I think the worded bgs sound exactly like those on Forever Came Today - and I don't care for either.

Originally Posted by antceleb12

The version of "Reflections" on the "No. 1's" album has drastically improved background vocals, including the oft-excluded bridge line sung by Mary and Flo.

For a while, I thought it was the Andantes [[or at least an Andante) on the record. The back-ups don't sound like Mary and Flo [[at least not to me), and it's always bothered me that the back-up vocals were so pushed back and muddled.

**marv2** · 06-12-2013, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by supremester

I just played 3 versions of Reflections. I believe that Mary and Flo are doing the "oooooooooo's" and The Andantes are doing the muddled, nearly indecipherable backing words. I simply cannot discern Mary there at all, and only a maybe for Flo. I know there are those who hear Mary & Flo where they are not, so who is to say. Personally, I think the worded bgs sound exactly like those on Forever Came Today - and I don't care for either.

If you had the ability to listen without prejudice, you would clearly hear Mary Wilson singing in the lower voice on this record that I and everyone else in the World has heard for 45-46 years now!

supremester · 06-12-2013, 06:46 PM

I don't listen with prejudice, I just didn't hear it. It's funny coming from someone who has clearly shown a lack of objectivity for years and is known for it [[along with your homophobic remarks like the word "faggy" you used the other day.) I can just imagine your rant had the tables been turned. Anyway, after listening to this way-too-fast 45, I agree that I think I can hear the barely audible Mary, finally. I thank you and still don't like the bg arrangement.

Originally Posted by marv2

If you had the ability to listen without prejudice, you would clearly hear Mary Wilson singing in the lower voice on this record that I and everyone else in the World has heard for 45-46 years now!

**antceleb12** · 06-12-2013, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by supremester

I just played 3 versions of Reflections. I believe that Mary and Flo are doing the "oooooooooo's" and The Andantes are doing the muddled, nearly indecipherable backing words. I simply cannot discern Mary there at all, and only a maybe for Flo. I know there are those who hear Mary & Flo where they are not, so who is to say. Personally, I think the worded bgs sound exactly like those on Forever Came Today - and I don't care for either.

I was thinking the same thing. The "#1's" version has the extended ending with just Mary & Flo [[or Marlene, or Jane, or Susie) singing a held out "Reflections" almost a capella. I want to say it's the Andantes, but I've read too much about how it was Florence's last recording session with the Supremes. Of course, Florence and Mary could have recorded their parts and then other voices could have been overdubbed or something...but I've never heard of them doing that with "Reflections" as I have with the other known tracks.

Here's a version that someone "enhanced" the background vocals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRjCqaX2IvQ

I still can't tell LOL. If there's one thing that frustrates me, it's the mixing on the background vocals!

**luke** · 06-12-2013, 06:12 PM

And it sure sounds like Flo's high operatic soprano to me!

**floyjoy678** · 06-12-2013, 06:23 PM

Louvain Demps recently said the andantes are in fact on stop in the name of love but she also could hear Florence on the song. Before you go and say "we don't know which version she heard" it was the version from the number ones which is the 45 version except it is extended.

Regarding "Reflections" I don't really care who is doing the backgrounds they sound like crap, it could be Flo...her voice wasn't holding up that well around that period neither was Diana's. Diana's vocal is the only thing about the song that I like and the funky intro.

**carole cucumber** · 06-12-2013, 08:09 PM

I, too, hear Mary very clearly and Flo ever so faintly in the background throughout ' Reflections' . And I believe it was mixed that way for a definite reason and purpose.
The track [[sans vocals) for 'The Happening', 'Reflections' and 'In And Out Of Love' were recorded in Detroit on March 2, 1967- the first 2 were used for the released versions; for 'In And Out Of Love' the music track was rerecorded on April 20, 1967 in L.A.
In "the Lost Supreme: The Life Of A Dreamgirl Florence Ballard" Peter Benjaminson quotes Flo's recollection/objection surrounding the recording of "The Happening" as regards Berry Gordy's desire to add the Andantes to the background vocal mix:
"Look, Berry, we're getting paid for doing these tunes. I'm not going to work and have these other girls singing with me. ...To me, they're not the group; they're just a whole bunch of other people.... We started off singing three together, and I think it should stay like that."
Berry did not add the Andantes to 'The Happening'.
But then, when 'Reflections' was recorded it appears that Berry honored Flo's wishes again, but used them to turn the tables on her. Mary is quite audible throughout but Flo can only be heard mixed very, very low [[in certain spots) in the background.
When released, 'Reflections' attained the #2 spot on the pop chart- a great showing considering the fact that the Supremes' backgrounds were not as audibly clear as they had been in 'The Happening'.
For 'In and Out Of Love', background vocals were recorded by Mary and Flo on June 12, 1967 and by Andantes on June 13, 1967. By the time the single was released [[October 25, 1967) Flo had been out of and Cindy in the group for 3 months- hence the strong presence of the Andantes in the background on that release- again possibly sending a message to Flo.

**carole cucumber** · 06-12-2013, 08:22 PM

One possible thing that confuses listeners about this single is that we are used to hearing Flo on the top note and Mary on the bottom. Here the voices are reversed [[the tables are turned in a second way, so to speak). I definitely hear Mary ascending to a near falsetto to hit the higher notes. Flo has that bite to her voice that is so distinctive- and it is present in the lower notes where she can be heard. It wouldn't surprise me if an alternate master were found in the vaults that included a full background vocal by Flo. It appears that only bits and pieces of Flo's background vocal are added for effect and to possibly get a clear message to Flo to not challenge the boss, Mr. Gordy, so openly.

**marv2** · 06-12-2013, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by carole cucumber

pieces of Flo's background vocal are added for effect and to possibly get a clear message to Flo to not challenge the boss, Mr. Gordy, so openly.

They weren' that devious! All this shit people on here are making up or repeating is nothing more than urban myths! They weren't sending Flo any messages. It reminds me that most of you don't even know what type of people that were at Motown. If Berry wanted to say something to Flo , he would just tell her flat out to her face and vice-versa. There were none these "covert operations" going on. Some of this makes me laugh, some of it makes me angry that people just make stuff up and post it! Everyone at Motown were not afraid of Berry Gordy Jr. These were all neighborhood people in those days. I can't explain it, but all this weird crazy talk has nothing to do with the real Motown.

**skooldem1** · 06-12-2013, 08:27 PM

I don't know who that is, but that doesn't sound like Florence at all.

**davidh** · 06-12-2013, 09:38 PM

first,it is one of my favorites and I like the version on the @1's cd the best.
this was going to be the final single by the Supremes in 1967 with a farwell tour and a returning Flo Ballard. things obviously changed and the group continued with Cindy Birdsong and the song was deleted from the Greatest Hits album and replaced with Standing At The Crossroads.

revvy · 06-12-2013, 10:08 PM

It has been said that the Andantes were used because DMC were touring constantly or doing TV appearances or being fitted for costumes and it just didn't make sense to have Mary and Cindy in the studio for mere album fillers. The big money was in live appearances.

revvy · 06-12-2013, 11:30 PM

What I don't understand is why does every background have to be analyzed as an equation: 40% Mary, 10% Florence, 5% Louvain, 8.5% Jackie, etc. Florence and Mary were more than capable of providing background harmonies. That's why they were hired in the first place. If you listen to "Back in My Arms Again", you'll notice it's only Mary and Florence in the background and they do a bang up job!

In another area, if Lynda and Scherrie were so great, why did they need 3...count them...3...backup singers on the Return to Love tour?

Now that's something to think about!

**antceleb12** · 06-12-2013, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by revvy

What I don't understand is why does every background have to be analyzed as an equation: 40% Mary, 10% Florence, 5% Louvain, 8.5% Jackie, etc.

Because it's interesting! I think it's interesting that producers chose to highlight certain voices on different songs - i.e. WDOLG is basically Mary carrying it, whereas "Come See..." is basically Florence carrying it.

**franjoy56** · 06-13-2013, 12:52 AM

and then you have "Baby Love" "Back in My Arms Again" and Nothing But Heartaches, that are all exclusivly Mary and Flo, as well as , My World Is Empty without you [[yes its Mary and Flo) "Love is LIke an Itching" You Keep Me Hangin On, & The Happening. All Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard, and no other background help. Which means the majority of the singles are Diana Mary and Florence only.

**detmotownguy** · 06-13-2013, 01:24 AM

Amen Franjoy! I do not post here all that much and come and go for short periods of time. But this issue of backgrounds keeps surfacing. I have to wonder why.
Great post!

Originally Posted by franjoy56

and then you have "Baby Love" "Back in My Arms Again" and Nothing But Heartaches, that are all exclusivly Mary and Flo, as well as , My World Is Empty without you [[yes its Mary and Flo) "Love is LIke an Itching" You Keep Me Hangin On, & The Happening. All Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard, and no other background help. Which means the majority of the singles are Diana Mary and Florence only.

**TheMotownManiac** · 06-13-2013, 04:28 AM

I think people discuss it because it interests them and they enjoy things that interest them. Those who don't find it interests them will hopefully find more interesting topics that will interest them. This topic interests me. I like knowing who is who. It's not a dig at Flo & Mary: the world's greatest bg singers ever IMHO. They can't supply everything needed always and can't always be where needed or slept in or was late [[AGAIN) and studio time was very very limited. They used Syretta as Martha Reeves for heaven's sake - this is nothing compared to that. AS for RTL, the three bg singerswere hired for Diana's half of the show. Also, depening on the day since inception, there was personnel offstage to augment MAry & Cindy if needed to round out the sound. Certainly for Love Is Here & Lovelight, but Cindy needed some support - no harm in that. After Scherrie & Lynda joined - who both are much stronger singers than Mary & Cindy - and who needed no support except on chorale pieces. RTL is a sad topic for most except the thousands who saw and loved it and of course, the cast and crew who got paid for the entire tour and only had to do 9 shows. Everybody did well financially except TNT/SFX who took it in the shorts and learned to not screw with Miss Ross, who has been gracious enough to allow SFX/Live Nation to produce dozens of her post RTL shows in North and South America.

Originally Posted by revvy

What I don't understand is why does every background have to be analyzed as an equation: 40% Mary, 10% Florence, 5% Louvain, 8.5% Jackie, etc. Florence and Mary were more than capable of providing background harmonies. That's why they were hired in the first place. If you listen to "Back in My Arms Again", you'll notice it's only Mary and Florence in the background and they do a bang up job!

In another area, if Lynda and Scherrie were so great, whey did they need 3...count them...3...backup singers on the Return to Love tour?

Now that's something to think about!

**rod_rick** · 06-13-2013, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac

I think people discuss it because it interests them and they enjoy things that interest them. Those who don't find it interests them will hopefully find more interesting topics that will interest them. This topic interests me. I like knowing who is who. It's not a dig at Flo & Mary: the world's greatest bg singers ever IMHO. They can't supply everything needed always and can't always be where needed or slept in or was late [[AGAIN) and studio time was very very limited. They used Syretta as Martha Reeves for heaven's sake - this is nothing compared to that. AS for RTL, the three bg singerswere hired for Diana's half of the show. Also, depening on the day since inception, there was personnel offstage to augment MAry & Cindy if needed to round out the sound. Certainly for Love Is Here & Lovelight, but Cindy needed some support - no harm in that. After Scherrie & Lynda joined - who both are much stronger singers than Mary & Cindy - and who needed no support except on chorale pieces. RTL is a sad topic for most except the thousands who saw and loved it and of course, the cast and crew who got paid for the entire tour and only had to do 9 shows. Everybody did well financially except TNT/SFX who took it in the shorts and learned to not screw with Miss Ross, who has been gracious enough to allow SFX/Live Nation to produce dozens of her post RTL shows in North and South America.

Scherrie and Lynda a great singers but IMO they don't blend well live in the background, it sounds like a vocal fight to me most of the time.

**marv2** · 06-13-2013, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac

I think people discuss it because it interests them and they enjoy things that interest them. Those who don't find it interests them will hopefully find more interesting topics that will interest them. This topic interests me. I like knowing who is who. It's not a dig at Flo & Mary: the world's greatest bg singers ever IMHO. They can't supply everything needed always and can't always be where needed or slept in or was late [[AGAIN) and studio time was very very limited. They used Syretta as Martha Reeves for heaven's sake - this is nothing compared to that. AS for RTL, the three bg singerswere hired for Diana's half of the show. Also, depening on the day since inception, there was personnel offstage to augment MAry & Cindy if needed to round out the sound. Certainly for Love Is Here & Lovelight, but Cindy needed some support - no harm in that. After Scherrie & Lynda joined - who both are much stronger singers than Mary & Cindy - and who needed no support except on chorale pieces. RTL is a sad topic for most except the thousands who saw and loved it and of course, the cast and crew who got paid for the entire tour and only had to do 9 shows. Everybody did well financially except TNT/SFX who took it in the shorts and learned to not screw with Miss Ross, who has been gracious enough to allow SFX/Live Nation to produce dozens of her post RTL shows in North and South America.

First of all Scherrie and Lynda are NOT stronger singers than Mary Wilson! I've heard how they sound recently.

If only SFX was hurt behind the dismal failure of RTL, then why did Diane start drinking so heavily that she was forced into rehab several times after the collapse of that tour?

supremester · 06-13-2013, 11:00 PM

Well, you may recall that Miss Ross was dealing with menopause at the time and was unable to take advantage of hormonal therapy which can cause horrendous emotions. Also, a little thing like the dissolution of her marriage compounded by the toll it would take on her boys. Add to that Motown's extreme unhappiness at her cancelling all publicity for EDIAND - including the 35 city US tour- add all the unpleasantness with RTL and you have a person ripe for substance issues. Especially when your antidepressant works so incredibly well with alcohol. The beating in the press about RTL broke the camel's back, but it was all the above. RTL was just booked in too large of a venue for most cities. I'm sure had she booked it in trailer parks, it would have sold out at every stop. Four years later, she gave the concert of her life and has won raves for her shows around the world ever since. She's in a great place. I'm happy for her. If she wanted to do a Supremes thing, she could just snap her fingers and make it happen. Motown would give her carte blanche for a tour, album......anything. Only I don't think she wanna. Wonder why? QUOTE=marv2;171355]First of all Scherrie and Lynda are NOT stronger singers than Mary Wilson! I've heard how they sound recently.

If only SFX was hurt behind the dismal failure of RTL, then why did Diane start drinking so heavily that she was forced into rehab several times after the collapse of that tour?[/QUOTE]

**marv2** · 06-13-2013, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by supremester

Well, you may recall that Miss Ross was dealing with menopause at the time and was unable to take advantage of hormonal therapy which can cause horrendous emotions.?

[/QUOTE]

I don't know nothing about her menopause. I do know that millions of women go through it without becoming full blown alcoholics that need to be put in rehab. She was drunk all the time after the public slapped her and her RTL tour down. I hear her fans try to cover up for her or make excuses about ticket prices too high, arena's too big. The reason no one wanted to see it was that it was missing Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong. People did not go through all the trouble of checking ticket prices only then to decide that they would not be attending the shows. They decided the moment they learned that Mary and Cindy [[the Supremes) Diana Ross had worked with would not be a part of the tour. Diane had to suffer the very public embarrassment of learning that she was not such the huge concert draw that she and the promoters thought she was. LOL!!!!

**Roberta75** · 06-13-2013, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by revvy

In another area, if Lynda and Scherrie were so great, why did they need 3...count them...3...backup singers on the Return to Love tour? Now that's something to think about!

You need to see a therapist my dear cause its real real clear that you need help getting over RTL . You seem more than a tad obsess with a tour from 13 years ago. It aint healthy sweetie and for the good of your health you need to get over it.

Roberta

supremester · 06-13-2013, 07:38 PM

RTL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! S_L_O_W_L_Y I T_U_R_N ...........step by step.........INCH BY INCH.......... I crept up on..........oh, it's YOU,........ I'm sorry, I just always go crazy when I hear: DON'T SAY IT......!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Roberta75

You need to see a therapist my dear cause its real real clear that you need help getting over RTL . You seem more than a tad obsess with a tour from 13 years ago. It aint healthy sweetie and for the good of your health you need to get over it.

Roberta

revvy · 06-14-2013, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

You need to see a therapist my dear cause its real real clear that you need help getting over RTL . You seem more than a tad obsess with a tour from 13 years ago. It aint healthy sweetie and for the good of your health you need to get over it.

Roberta

Roberta, if you don't pipe down, Marv and I are going to hunt you down, take you out and bury you with that precious bible in your hand, so KNOCK IT OFF!