RIP threads and paying proper respect to those who have passed

[smark21]

Both last night and this morning, tsull expressed a great deal of frustration that not enough members were participating in the Bobby Smith of the Spinners RIP thread. This afternoon mellowQ agreed with tsull. But alas, skooldem countered this evening that members are not obligated to post in such threads. I think this is an issue that needs to be discussed on a forum wide platform.

Here is tsull’s post from this morning:

1. Today, 10:32 AM#12

tsull1


Senior Member
Join Date

Aug 2010

Posts

479

The lack of respect for Bobbie is stunning: 10 posts here, only seven different posters, no press coverage in The Detroit Free Press, hardly any online. Tons of posts on various subjects on this and the Motown board and people have a right to post what they want, but re-hashing Diana Ross for the millionth time while a legend passes? C'mon.



This got me to thinking. Perhaps it’s time for the forum to consider adopting some new policies and procedures when it comes to RIP threads.

Perhaps we can start a separate sub-forum devoted to RIP threads? Of course this could lead to segregation of these threads and as a result some members may end not being aware of the passing of one our music legends.

Another suggestion is that when someone passes away that moderators lock all other threads except other RIP threads here at SDF for a set period of time so that we as members can reflect on the passing of the person in question and pay our respects. If this is an avenue worth pursuing, then it needs to be determined how long all other threads should be locked. 24 hours? 48 hours? A week?

Also, perhaps a mechanism can be developed to monitor how frequently members contribute to RIP threads. It shouldn’t be expected that everyone must have something to add to every RIP thread [[we may not know who the artist was, or we may be taking a break from the forum to attend to matters in other parts of our life). But maybe a certain rate of participation should be expected over a six month period of time? And if this rate is not met, then the member should receive a warning from the moderator to increase their level of participation in RIP threads [[so long as it’s respectful of the dead and their families, friends and fans). If after another 6 months the member is still not participating at a satisfactory rate, then perhaps the offending member should be asked to leave or be banned from SDF.

Tsull has raised some important issues and it would do this forum and its membership well to set up some guidance with regards to RIP threads so that those who have sadly passed will receive sufficient recognition and respect so as not to hurt the family members, friends and fans who come here to SDF expecting the members to pay due homage and respect on the lifetime contributions of their dearly departed loved ones.

[Ngroove]

I respect the original Spinners, but personally, the only singular members of the group I can distinguish from others, are G.C. Cameron, and Phillip Wynne.

My apologies for not participating, but nevertheless; however, "warning" someone to post, or threaten to ban, is pretty wrong, my opinion.

I shall say my "RIP Bobby Smith" nevertheless now.

[imnokid]

Insinuating that people must comment on the death of any artist is totally ridiculous. If someone wants to, or doesn't want to comment, is their prerogative. Everybody doesn't feel the same way about every artist.

[soulster]

But alas, skooldem countered this evening that members are not obligated to post in such threads.

And, I agree with Skooldem. Look, many of us experience many friends and family passing away that we should rather not discuss it. Everyone grieves in their own way, if they grieve. And, if one is not familiar with the person or their work, it would be disingenuous to post in that R.I.P. thread.

It is NOT a lack of respect to not mpost in those threads,

And, for my concern, there are often two or three R,I,P, threads for the same person by different people, as if everyone wants their own thread. Two or more threads are just not needed. Ralph seems to think it's fine to have multiple threads on the same thing, so be it. But, it is an annoyance, and, frankly, reduces participation in those threads. Which one to post in? One? Two? All of them? Post in one because you don't like the poster who started the other one?

The lack of respect for Bobbie is stunning: 10 posts here,

You forget something: not everyone here is of a certain age, knows each other personally, or is even familiar with the deceased. If you think that, you live in a very small world. This is an international forum. It's on the internet. We have members here from all walks of life from many different countries. You sound like we all grew up together.

only seven different posters, no press coverage in The Detroit Free Press, hardly any online. Tons of posts on various subjects on this and the Motown board and people have a right to post what they want, but re-hashing Diana Ross for the millionth time while a legend passes? C'mon. [/QUOTE]

I agree!

This got me to thinking. Perhaps it’s time for the forum to consider adopting some new policies and procedures when it comes to RIP threads.

Yes, yes!

Perhaps we can start a separate sub-forum devoted to RIP threads? Of course this could lead to segregation of these threads and as a result some members may end not being aware of the passing of one our music legends.

I think it's a great idea.

Another suggestion is that when someone passes away that moderators lock all other threads except other RIP threads here at SDF for a set period of time so that we as members can reflect on the passing of the person in question and pay our respects. If this is an avenue worth pursuing, then it needs to be determined how long all other threads should be locked. 24 hours? 48 hours? A week?

Baaaaad idea! It's silly. First of all, you cannot force people to pay attention to anyone who passes on. This isn't a communist forum. And, Ralph does not have the time to go around locking all but R.I.P. threads. We can discard that idea right now! You will kill the forum by doing that.

Also, perhaps a mechanism can be developed to monitor how frequently members contribute to RIP threads. It shouldn’t be expected that everyone must have something to add to every RIP thread [[we may not know who the artist was, or we may be taking a break from the forum to attend to matters in other parts of our life). But maybe a certain rate of participation should be expected over a six month period of time? And if this rate is not met, then the member should receive a warning from the moderator to increase their level of participation in RIP threads [[so long as it’s respectful of the dead and their families, friends and fans). If after another 6 months the member is still not participating at a satisfactory rate, then perhaps the offending member should be asked to leave or be banned from SDF.

Again, this ain't no damn communist-run forum! You can't force people to participate in R.I.P. threads! What's gotten into you guys, man?

Tsull has raised some important issues and it would do this forum and its membership well to set up some guidance with regards to RIP threads so that those who have sadly passed will receive sufficient recognition and respect so as not to hurt the family members, friends and fans who come here to SDF expecting the members to pay due homage and respect on the lifetime contributions of their dearly departed loved ones.

OK, you want to go this route? Let's force people to recognize Andrew Breitbart, Richard M. Nixon, Adolph Hi...you know...it's a stupid idea!

I don't mean to sound hostile or anything, but i'm just letting you know how silly these ideas are.

[milven]

I saw the post that tsull posted saying that he was frustrated that not enough people were participating the Bobby Smith RIP thread.

1. He may not have been aware that there were at least three rest in peace threads for Bobby Smith. [[One here and two in the Motown Forum) When combined, they were quite a few responses. The moderator has a simple tool that he can use to combine and move these threads. If he had done that, or if tsull had monitored the entire board, including Motown, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

2 . It shows no respect if someone is forced to post their condolences , or if someone is punished if he does not post them.

3. I don't respond to every RIP thread. I did respond in one of the Bobby Smith RIP threads. But I will pay my respects to him again in this thread. Soulful Detroit is the place to get the news first. Rather than reprimanding the SD members, the media should be scolded. There was no mention of his passing in the main media. He was a great voice of Seventies Soul Music. I had to buy two copies of the Spinners first Atlantic LP because I wore out the grooves by playing it so much. And watching them perform in concert always gave me joy.

My sympathies to the Bobby Smith family

[soulster]

You know, all people have to do is CHECK FIRST to see if someone else has started a thread before they do their own.

[Kamasu_Jr]

Personally, I didn't feel like posting in that particular thread. Death is not something I am dealing with easily at this time. I know people die every day. But this was a rough month so many musicians have passed. And I'm always missing someone who has passed on. I'm also dealing with my own father's and my uncle's mortality and health issues. I don't want to think about death. It gets to be too much. I meant no disrespect to Bobbie Smith, but I didn't know him personally. But I am sorry for his family and closest friends. Someone told me that his passing was acknowledged on one of the network news programs on Monday afternoon.

[zebop]

You're not going to find many people who love the Spinners as much as I do. I've been listening to them since I was what? 3 or 4? Lots of memories associated with them and I enjoy their work to this day.

I didn't mean any disrespect either but some of these losses are harder to process or acknowledge more than others. I did offer my condolences on other boards. A lot of times, I don't like to do that here because I like to keep it a bit lighter here...

[manny]

Here's my humble point of view about this delicate question.

I assume [[and I think, everybody here at SDF "should to assume") that we're all lovers of a musical genre, CLASSIC SOUL, on wich the artists are mostly old or very old people. Some years the "RIP Threads" are, sadly, continuous [[JB, Wilson Pickett, Johnny Bristol,...) and we "can understand" this is the [[sad) law of life and at the same time feeling so bad because a particular artist we have been loved or have been a "fan"...

In my particular case, I'm feel very ashamed apart from very sad, when I noticed about our great SDF member Mr. Weldon McDougal... almost a month after. And in my particular case, as I am a very Philly Soul lover and have been "contacted" with Weldon, here at SDF, by e-mail and also by ordinary mail... I considered he a great person and friend and I don't knows about his illness and decease until a month after [[I have long periods of time without time for nothing, traveling, without a portable computer or similar...). That I want say is simply that despite the fact the immense majority of our musical heroes are old / very old this is no reason for "a law of the life" diminished our sad feelings when noticed about a decease... And the fact that somebody or many people do not put a line in a concrete RIP thread do not necessary signifies that the people is indifferent about this. There's the possibility some people who loves one deceased artists is not online during weeks or months or do not open the SDF page... and also there's the possibility that we can't to express with words in a "cold" context like internet some feelings that we can express better or only in person and in silence and found words "intrascendents".

Much respect anyway.

[jillfoster]

I can say that personally... I almost always post, but I waited just a bit this time, for definite confirmation, considering what happened with Otis Williams last month. As far as news outlets go, sometimes their news cycles are slow on these things, depending on what else is going on at the time [[politics, and all that crap) I know the Kansas City TV stations took 3 days to do reports on Marva Whitney, and this was her hometown! There have been so many celebrity death hoaxes as of late, people and news outlets are a little gun shy.

[soulster]

Just add an obituary section to this site and be done with it.

And, verify the news of someone's passing before posting.

Like Kam says, many of us are having to deal with this on a very personal level, and, frankly, I don't want to be constantly badgered to participate in threads where we may not even know who the deceased is.

[GrtGzu]

Are you kidding me? I'll not be told, nor forced to post when I don't want to. It's as simple as that...What is being suggested is sure to drive away posters for sure, and I doubt that is Ralph's intent...

What nerve.....

[ralpht]

And I am most surly NOT going to open a special place for obits and lock other threads for a time. People post on obit threads according to their personal feelings. Just because a particular obit thread is not the length a member would like to see does not indicate a lack of respect.
Hell, I played a ton of USO shows with the Spinners many years ago when we were all young and starting out. Because I don't post anythiong does not mean any loss of respect for the deceased.

[Jerry Oz]

Respect must be freely given. It's more disrespectful to post an insincere "RIP; my condolences go out to the family" than it is to not post in the thread. Not just that, but many of our community is personally acquainted with some of the artists who have passed. Who is to say that their relationship was positive? Should someone sincerely post that they had problems with the decedent, be forced to lie about someone that they disliked, or respectfully leave it alone?

[tsull1]

First off, not once did I saw people were FORCED to post R.I.P.'s or obligated to, I said I was disappointed in the lack of respect, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Skooldem took me to task so I stood up for myself. You don't have to post, I'm not forcing you, I'm just saying I was surprised at the lack of responses and I was disappionted.

There's a reason soul music doesn't sell in this country -- current or classic soul -- there's little to no respect by its fans. And I'm sticking to that opinion, too.

[skooldem1]

My intention was not to "take you to task". I just wanted to let you know that people can like a group or a singer and not feel the need to post condolences on a message board.

[tsull1]

I didn't say they had to post, I said I was disappointed in the lack of posts. I thought there would be more fans out there. Perhaps part of being "lifted" and "going to church" is also paying your respects.

[paladin]

I think I understand Tsull's point of view about respect, after all this is Soulful Detroit and of course the Spinners were part of the Motown stable. Whether people post or not is a personal decision and I'll leave it at that. But there seems to be some confusion about the number of threads and there respective locations on the board. I ran into this problem with the thread on Bobby Rogers. Maybe it could be a way to prioritize the news of a person passing away at the top of each page or some sort of link that would take you to the thread where the information is located. I think that because Soulful Detroit is one of the few places that one can go to for information from reliable sources, that this matter should be explored and if possible addressed in a manner not only befitting this site but its membership as well. How that is done, if at all, is more important to me than other issues like arguing about a thread or its content and I wont even speak on The Boss.

[milven]

When you combine the threads, there are over fifty responses to the announcement of Bobby Smith's death.

I post what I want, when I want in the category that I want. I don't need the moderator forcing me to post or locking threads so I can only post where he wants.

As Jillfoster said, responses to some recent passings have been a little slow because we may be waiting for it to be confirmed.

There are many people here who get first hand information from the family first and then post here. I encourage you to continue doing that. If it is second or third hand info, please state that and tell us that it still not confirmed.

I continue to get the good and the bad news about our favorite entertainers here first. The main media is a little slow reporting news on some celebrities unless they are current megastars.

[soulster]

There's a reason soul music doesn't sell in this country -- current or classic soul -- there's little to no respect by its fans. And I'm sticking to that opinion, too.

Well, obviously, not everyone shares your opinion on what showing respect is, not even the host.

The reason soul music doesn't get respect in this country is because of good 'ol racism, and generations of people who have not grown up with hearing it because of that racism.

Because of this thread, I am now even less likely to participate in any R.I.P. threads. I now feel like I am being bullied or shamed into it.

Tsull, we understand your pain over the loss of loved ones, but your anger and pain is misplaced. You can't shame and bully people into behaving as you want.

The best thing Ralph can do, though, is combine multiple R.I.P. threads, and posters should check to see if someone beat them to it before posting a second one.

[Ngroove]

First off, not once did I saw people were FORCED to post R.I.P.'s or obligated to, I said I was disappointed in the lack of respect, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Skooldem took me to task so I stood up for myself. You don't have to post, I'm not forcing you, I'm just saying I was surprised at the lack of responses and I was disappionted.

There's a reason soul music doesn't sell in this country -- current or classic soul -- there's little to no respect by its fans. And I'm sticking to that opinion, too.

I more than respect - I LOVE classic soul music - makes up 95% of my music listening, whether on radio, CD, mp3, cassette, or vinyl.

I can recognize, and probably will, mourn, every members of Miracles, Temptations, Four Tops, past and even present.

But, while I love to listen to time-to-time, the O'Jays, the only member I still know about is Eddie Levert, Harold Melvin & Blue Notes, Harold Melvin and the late Teddy Pendergrass, Manhattans, Gerald Alston, Spinners, GC Cameron and Phillip Wynne. Isley Brothers, Ronald Isley. I can't name any members of Chi-Lites, or Blue Magic, and I still don't know which member is the Ray, Goodman, and Brown, of the Moments.

However, since it is in the name of "respect", since I do listen to them well enough, even may have influenced my overall character through the listening of them, I do have something to be appreciative for them, even though I have never met, thus really knew them, or anyone really famous in any field, for that matter. So yes, I shall try to be more aware of these "RIP" threads

[tsull1]

I'm not bullying anyone into posting. I thought Mr. Smith would receive more respect, that's it. I thought there would be more Spinners fans posting, that's it, considering if The Boss cuts the cheese there's a lot of posts on it. [[Sorry for that example!)

This is an opinion board and I can post my opinions about stuff ... at least I hope I can. When I first got on this board there were some cool people and famous muscians who have since left. I thought it was awesome I could actually converse with people who were in the Motown and Philly studios. They were pushed out ... now I see why. I don't subscribe to a lot of the group think here. I stated an opinion and I'm sticking with it and you can fire back at me ... just expect to also get a response from me back.

[soulster]

You keep using that word "respect", and it's not about that. That is a form of shaming people. When my mother passed, I felt hurt that not many people showed up to her service or funeral. But, that was because of the scheduling. My sister, deeply christian, put it together and didn't really care about those types of things. her mind is on life, and living, not death. I understood that.

I have to go to a meeting, and i'm late, but I had this thought while in the shower thinking about this whole issue: how can we get younger generations to know about and appreciate R&B legends when the older generation, for the most part, refuses to understand and appreciate the music of theirs? It's a two-way street.

Since I am bit younger than the majority of people here, and did not grow up in the music world, the only way I know of most of the deceased is through the music. I have been a fan of Spinners ever since 1972 when I first heard "Could It be I'm Falling In Love". Oh, I heard the wonderful "It's A Shame" back on 1970 with everyone else, but to me, it was just another song on the radio.

Shoot man, I gotta go...but no one ever pushed anyone out of here. Those people left of their own accord. No one makes you do anything. We all have power over our own actions.

But, i'm not going to express sorrow for someone I knew nothing about until now.

[tsull1]

I like that response Soulster. How do we get younger people interested in classic soul. And I would add today's soul. Today's R & B artists don't sell well in comparison to other musical genres.

Regarding R.I.P. posts, people can post what they want, I'm not going to force them but I think it's OK to question why more fans are not doing so without receiving vitriol from others.

[Kamasu_Jr]

I think it's a matter of perspective and understanding that not everyone is going to feel the same way that you might feel about someone or some subject. Everyone in the world does not listen to soul music or know anything about the people who make it.

[glencro]

Insinuating that people must comment on the death of any artist is totally ridiculous. If someone wants to, or doesn't want to comment, is their prerogative. Everybody doesn't feel the same way about every artist.

I totally agree...I can't believe this discussion

[glencro]

I have to go to a meeting, and i'm late, but I had this thought while in the shower thinking about this whole issue: how can we get younger generations to know about and appreciate R&B legends when the older generation, for the most part, refuses to understand and appreciate the music of theirs? It's a two-way street.

Great point soulster. I wasa bit disheartened recently when I saw someone that I consider a legend post on another sight that all of today's artists suck and a few other choice words that were stated regarding today's music. I'm 46 and I never hope to get too old to have an open mind. If so, someone please dig my grave. As a photographer, I buy a lot of music to have on set that I normally would not buy [[thankfully they are tax write-offs) but in the meantime I've learned to appreciate the music of artists like Rheanna, Beyonce, Miguel, Chris Brown and others. Of course I loev my classics but there is some great music being made by artists such as Eric Roberson, Rahsaan Patterson, Ledisi, Mint Condition, Foreign Exchange, Tweet and others. But back to the matter at hand. ranting because someone did not comment on a thread is like getting mad at someone for not LIKING your facebook status. What's next?

[tsull1]

I totally agree...I can't believe this discussion

I didn't insinuate that everyone had to post an R.I.P., I said I was disappointed in the lack of respect. There's a difference. I don't post on all R.I.P.'s and ones I haven't, often I've felt disappointed in the lack of respect, including my own where I didn't take the time to post.

For the 100th time, I'm not bullying people into this, just thought he deserved more respect. Not sure how much clearer I can make that ... but if you can't comprehend, I guess that's where we're at.

[ralpht]

T,
To write something on a thread simply because you think it is the right thing to do, wouldn't mean a great deal if it wasn't heartfelt. People show their respect in different ways. Maybe just the fact that they participate on these forums is adequate enough to prove that respect.

[GrtGzu]

And by "lack of respect" that you keep talking about, this makes me think that we should be obligated to post an R.I.P.? While I understand your POV, it's not fair to make such a "blanket statement" for the rest of us who might not share the same ideology....

I can't believe this conversation is still going on...This is ridiculous...Seriously...

Can we get back to talking about how to make Soul Music and the legends that created it, more appreciated by the young folk? Jeez...

[Roberta75]

Condolonces for those who have passed is a real personal thing. I always pray publicly and sometime I add a prayer to a thread if I feel the words can heal or help. For me death aint a thing to be feared as I know i am going to my Father's Heavenly mansion to live with my Lord and Savior for eternity. Again this is only my personal belief. Nobody is obligated to post in a thread about someone who passes. Its all about choice and freedom and personal beliefs folks IMO.

Regards,

Roberta

[tsull1]

And by "lack of respect" that you keep talking about, this makes me think that we should be obligated to post an R.I.P.? While I understand your POV, it's not fair to make such a "blanket statement" for the rest of us who might not share the same ideology....

I can't believe this conversation is still going on...This is ridiculous...Seriously...

Can we get back to talking about how to make Soul Music and the legends that created it, more appreciated by the young folk? Jeez...

I never said anything about obligation. I can say lack of respect if I want. It took the national media 4 days to get on this death ... meanwhile Iggy Pop is in the rock hall of fame. If I want to say someone is getting lack of respect I have the right to do so ... want to talk about bullying, you guys are trying to tell me what I can and can't write. If I feel Bobbie Smith or anyone else is lacking in respect, I'll damn well write it. You don't have to post an R.I.P. , but I'll write lack of respect if I feel like it.

I also think The Stylistics, Delfonics, Con Funk Shun, and others, haven't gotten their just due. You gonna shout me down for that, too?

[soulster]

I like that response Soulster. How do we get younger people interested in classic soul. And I would add today's soul. Today's R & B artists don't sell well in comparison to other musical genres.

Regarding R.I.P. posts, people can post what they want, I'm not going to force them but I think it's OK to question why more fans are not doing so without receiving vitriol from others.

I think what we can do, in honor of the deceased, it so find a way to honor their music. That's they way they honored us, so the best we can do is figure out a way to return that. Since I didn't know them personally, that's the best I can do. I think it's way better than leaving a sympathy post in a music forum.

How do we school the younger people? We can't. They really have to come into it on their own. but, if they do, we could be there to help educate them. Don't bash their music. Try to learn about it. You may not like it, or all of it, but it's a gesture. I am 50 years old, but I do try to keep one ear to the street, as it's said, and I do enjoy some of the new stuff.

[soulster]

I totally agree...I can't believe this discussion

I think I, tsull, and others, can turn this thread into something positive. A few of us got off on the wrong vibe, but let's find a way to save R&B, and its legacy.

[Kamasu_Jr]

Again, it's your perspective. There could be several possible reasons why tthe national media were slow in reporting Bobbie Smith's passing. His family could have been slow in alerting the media and confirming his passing. The Spinners may not have had a publicist to notify the media and if they did have personnel in place, there are people working in the media who may not have known who he was.

[ralpht]

Guys,
I think we have taken this to the limit. I'm going to freeze the thread.