Did The Pope Resign ???

[milven]

There were a couple of threads in the clubhouse discussing the Pope's resignation. They are gone. Does that mean that the Pope changed his mind or are certain topics being censored and removed?

Are we allowed to discuss religion, politics etc on the site or are we limited in what can be discussed?

[Jerry Oz]

I believe he resigned for 5 years and $40 million with a $10 million signing bonus, Milven.

[[Sorry, I frequent too many sports sites and when I see "resign", it looks a lot like "re-sign"...)

I'm about 100% sure he did not change his mind. There are reports now that he's bone thin and blind in one eye, adding to his already disclosed heart problems and legal issues. We'll see how this all plays out.

[soulster]

I guess the threads were removed because there are some Catholics here who are upset or offended by it all.

The pope resigned because he was about to be charged with aiding and abetting child molesting priests within the church. To avoid prosecution and damaging the church, he resigned and decided to be sheltered by the Vatican.

It has been all over world news, so it's not like it's a secret or a lie, or anything.

My only error is not saving the actual links:




Pope Evades Criminal Charges by Hiding in Vatican
February 16, 2013
Feb. 16, 2013 Late breaking news on the real reason why Pope Benedict XVI quit the job as Pope is centered around the fact that he was going to be charged for crimes against humanity by shielding pedophile priests in the RC church.


A statement given to Reuters reveals that the Church has decided to grant Joseph Ratzinger immunity against any and all charges involving his protection of known sex offenders.


As a high ranking member of the Catholic Church, Ratzinger knew priests who habitually were reported as sex offenders with children and shipped them to other parishes where they continued raping children.


Even after becoming a Pope as well he protected priests by denying criminal charges.


When he was an archbishop, J. Ratzinger knowingly and willingly protected the criminal priests and thereby avoiding legal and lawful charges against them. Now the church is willfully breaking the law by giving him sanctuary against the law.


The Hiding of a Criminal Pope



In a statement to the press today, the Vatican announced that:




It will give Joseph Ratzinger, formerly Pope Benedict XVI a permanent residency in the Vatican, which gives him legal immunity to any charges against him.


The entire world is wondering why a Pope would consider such drastic action as quitting while still in the papacy, since historically Pope’s usually die in office.


In a report the church officials indicate they are offering Ratzinger legal protection in connection with any charges that he may have protected known sexual abusers in the priesthood around the world. The Church sources indicates:


“His continued presence in the Vatican is necessary, otherwise he might be defenseless”. By this statement we gather that if Ratzinger steps outside the Vatican perimeter he could be legally arrested and brought to trial for his criminal cover ups. The Roman Catholic Church is basically admitting the former Pope is guilty, they know it and further more they are giving him cover against the authorities.


Quote from ITCCS.org


” The Vatican decided today to give permanent sanctuary to a proven war criminal by allowing Joseph Ratzinger to obstruct justice and evade prosecution for crimes against humanity. And the government of Italy is colluding in this abrogation of international law.


This decision validates our claims about the criminal conspiracy surrounding Ratzinger and his Vatican co-conspirators. It also makes it clear that the Vatican is a rogue power that is flaunting every law to conceal its own criminality.


In response, the ITCCS calls upon its affiliates and all people of conscience to use our upcoming Easter Reclamation Campaign to converge on Rome and the Vatican to force the extradition of Ratzinger from Vatican City, and place him and his accessories on trial for crimes against humanity.


Commencing Sunday, March 24, 2013, our activists and others will begin an escalating series of Catholic church occupations and seizures of church property to bring about Ratzinger’s extradition and reclaim stolen wealth from the criminal corporation known as Vatican Inc. – in the name of the legion of their victims, both living and dead. “


Quote from Reuters


1) [[Reuters) ” The Vatican has consistently said that a pope cannot be held accountable for cases of abuse committed by others because priests are employees of individual dioceses around the world and not direct employees of the Vatican. It says the head of the church cannot be compared to the CEO of a company.


Victims groups have said Benedict, particularly in his previous job at the head of the Vatican’s doctrinal department, turned a blind eye to the overall policies of local Churches, which moved abusers from parish to parish instead of defrocking them and handing them over to authorities.”


2) [[Reuters) – Pope Benedict’s decision to live in the Vatican after he resigns will provide him with security and privacy. It will also offer legal protection from any attempt to prosecute him in connection with sexual abuse cases around the world, Church sources and legal experts say.





Pope will have security, immunity by remaining in the Vatican

[ralpht]

Soulster,
I removed the original thread on this topic because it was beginning to get nasty. In the old days I guess I would have tried to reason with those involved to try and smooth things out. These days I just axe it and not deal with the grief. Things were getting out of hand

[milven]

Soulster , thanks for re posting. I only read about these accusations here. I haven't seen it discussed on TV or in yesterday's paper. I think the links were posted by Roberta, who I don't consider a troublemaker.

Ralph, one bad apple can spoil the barrel just as one bad member can spoil the board. He is a favorite of yours, and so the bad apple will remain to spoil the threads. As time goes by, I am becoming immune to his insults and name calling to us and telling us that we are stupid. But , this is your board, so we go with your decisions and accept them.

I was just disappointed to find the thread that Roberta put up here disappear.

[ralpht]

It is not just one person, Milven. Someone will always take the bait of a post that irritates instead of ignoring it, and we are off to the races once again.

[144man]

I put a couple of jokes on the topic on those threads. As they had both been published in British national newspaper, the Daily Mirror, I don't think they could be considered offensive.

[ralpht]

I'm sure it wasn't offensive. 144.

[Methuselah2]

NOWHERE TO RUN [1965]
Martha & the Vandellas

And performing it that same year on SHINDIG!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhcflDSUMvc

[144man]

Is it my imagination, or are people in general more thin-skinned than they used to be 10/20 years ago?

Good one, Bruce.

[soulster]

Soulster,
I removed the original thread on this topic because it was beginning to get nasty. In the old days I guess I would have tried to reason with those involved to try and smooth things out. These days I just axe it and not deal with the grief. Things were getting out of hand

I guess I didn't see any nastiness. I mean, what is there to get nasty about?

[soulster]

It is not just one person, Milven. Someone will always take the bait of a post that irritates instead of ignoring it, and we are off to the races once again.

But, I think what Milven is suggesting is that if there is someone who repeatedly posts insults and baits people, maybe they should be...banned.

[ralpht]

Maybe we should drop it.

[Methuselah2]

MAYBE
The Chantels

[[Sorry. I've been in the Word Association thread a lot lately.)

[ralpht]

It works here, Methuselah...

[soulster]

Anyway, back to the topic:

The catholic church will continue to be dogged as long as they aid and abet these pedophiles.

[144man]

I guess I didn't see any nastiness. I mean, what is there to get nasty about?

It's a nasty topic, which is going to provoke strong reactions against the people in authority who effectively colluded in the crimes by keeping silent for so long.

SDF is not really an appropriate forum where the subject can be addressed seriously and in depth.

[splanky]

It's a nasty topic, which is going to provoke strong reactions against the people in authority who effectively colluded in the crimes by keeping silent for so long.

SDF is not really an appropriate forum where the subject can be addressed seriously and in depth.

Actually I personally welcome the discussion of serious topics and thought that the Clubhouse was the proper place for it. The shooting of Hadiya Pendleton I thought was
worth talking about but it seems most folks don't have the stomach for adult talk and debate...just trivia ...who wore it better, lip gloss stuff...

[Jerry Oz]

This is a good forum for serious topics [[Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman, Rush Limbaugh's "slut" comments, the presidential election, etc.). It just seems that many times personal opinions about the subject are manifested by posters going overboard with incindiary comments. And when someone takes the "con" side to those posters, the responses eventually turn personal and effectively kill the thread. Debate is healthy. Being nasty is not.

[ralpht]

It all seems so simple doesn't it, Jerry?

[Jerry Oz]

Ralph, I come here to let my hair down [[well, figuratively speaking...) and enjoy the company of a lot of very interesting folks who have a common interest of mine: Music in general and soul music in specific. In less than a year, I've learned enough to be humbled by the wonderful community that is Soulful Detroit. But I've also read intensely personal attacks that make it apparent why many who used to come and contribute decided not to do so anymore. And it's unnecessary. My blood pressure isn't going to go up because somebody that I never met in person thinks he/she doesn't like me. But by the same token, I've got more positive ways to pass my time. I've seen posters absolutely highjack great threads with embarrassing conversations that would be best handled by PMing.

But, with that all being said, I think there has been less of it in the last few months. I don't think that the well has been completely poisoned, but I pray that the damage has not been done.

[Roberta75]

Soulster , thanks for re posting. I only read about these accusations here. I haven't seen it discussed on TV or in yesterday's paper. I think the links were posted by Roberta, who I don't consider a troublemaker.

Ralph, one bad apple can spoil the barrel just as one bad member can spoil the board. He is a favorite of yours, and so the bad apple will remain to spoil the threads. As time goes by, I am becoming immune to his insults and name calling to us and telling us that we are stupid. But , this is your board, so we go with your decisions and accept them.

I was just disappointed to find the thread that Roberta put up here disappear.

I was in no way trying to start trouble milven I was discussing an issue that really bothers me. The abuse of innocent children is a reprehensible offense and when a sitting Pope hand a huge hand in covering it up and harboring the pedophiles who raped these children and in once case 200 deaf children well it make my blood boil. IMO Pope Benedict has been covering up these wicked crimes against children since he was a cardinal and now he want to retire to the safety of the Vatican where he is immune to any legal action is a real disgrace IMO. Pope Benedict should be on trail for protecting and enabling pedophile priests.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...on-child-abuse

I feel its real important to make the public aware of this mans role in the child abuse that ruined tens of thousands of lives.

Roberta

[ralpht]

Jerry,
I have adopted a no nonsense attitude. If something looks like it is going bad on a thread, I simply get rid of the thread. This seems to be working as the forum continues onward.

[soulster]

SDF is not really an appropriate forum where the subject can be addressed seriously and in depth.

Actually, unless Ralph says it isn't appropriate, the topic is fair game. We are adults and should be able to discuss such things without the insults.

[soulster]

This is a good forum for serious topics [[Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman, Rush Limbaugh's "slut" comments, the presidential election, etc.). It just seems that many times personal opinions about the subject are manifested by posters going overboard with incindiary comments. And when someone takes the "con" side to those posters, the responses eventually turn personal and effectively kill the thread. Debate is healthy. Being nasty is not.

The best discourse is to not get personal.

And, I think that the crimes of the pope should be discussed. There is a special place in hell both here on earth and beyond for those that would harm a child.

[144man]

Actually, unless Ralph says it isn't appropriate, the topic is fair game. We are adults and should be able to discuss such things without the insults.

What I meant was that such a discussion would be more suitable and would attract more participants in a political forum.

[144man]

I was in no way trying to start trouble milven I was discussing an issue that really bothers me. The abuse of innocent children is a reprehensible offense and when a sitting Pope hand a huge hand in covering it up and harboring the pedophiles who raped these children and in once case 200 deaf children well it make my blood boil. IMO Pope Benedict has been covering up these wicked crimes against children since he was a cardinal and now he want to retire to the safety of the Vatican where he is immune to any legal action is a real disgrace IMO. Pope Benedict should be on trail for protecting and enabling pedophile priests.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...on-child-abuse

I feel its real important to make the public aware of this mans role in the child abuse that ruined tens of thousands of lives.

Roberta

The way this has been reported in the UK, although the child abuse allegations have been referred to, these have not been put forward as the primary reason for the Pope's resignation, which appears to be that he no longer has the physical and mental strength to continue in the job.

[marv2]

The way this has been reported in the UK, although the child abuse allegations have been referred to, these have not been put forward as the primary reason for the Pope's resignation, which appears to be that he no longer has the physical and mental strength to continue in the job.

144man, mainstream media in the U.S. have also not given child abuse allegations as the main reason why Pope Benedict is resigning. He is retiring due to old age and health issues. Those are the primary reasons given in the media here in the States.

[marv2]

It's a nasty topic, which is going to provoke strong reactions against the people in authority who effectively colluded in the crimes by keeping silent for so long.

SDF is not really an appropriate forum where the subject can be addressed seriously and in depth.

I agree. The silence began decades ago and did not begin with Pope Benedict. As I have said before, it was Pope John XXIII that issued the order internally to keep the child abuse scandal quiet. Pope John reigned from 1958-63. In those days they referred to it as "pederasty". Although wrong, it did not originate with Pope Benedict is the point I am making.

[Roberta75]

The way this has been reported in the UK, although the child abuse allegations have been referred to, these have not been put forward as the primary reason for the Pope's resignation, which appears to be that he no longer has the physical and mental strength to continue in the job.

If I had covered up the rape and shameless ruination of 200 innocent deaf boys and thousands of others I'd be real mentally and physically weak as well. You cant sleep with that on your consience or be physically strong with the weight of harboring pedophiles on your body. May he see the faces of those precious and innocent children every moment of every living day and may God ultimately forgive him for putting his church and his clergy over innocent children.

This Uk paper mention the child abuse.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...buse-survivors

This is a real informative opinion IMO

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae...b_2707208.html

Roberta

[Roberta75]

There is a special place in hell both here on earth and beyond for those that would harm a child.

I agree with you 1000 percent soulster.

Roberta

[soulster]

What I meant was that such a discussion would be more suitable and would attract more participants in a political forum.

Some of us disagree.

[soulster]

The way this has been reported in the UK, although the child abuse allegations have been referred to, these have not been put forward as the primary reason for the Pope's resignation, which appears to be that he no longer has the physical and mental strength to continue in the job.

That's the way it mostly continues to be reported here too, but it did come out last Saturday in the U.S. press is that the very reason he resigned is to protect his sorry ass from prosecution. That is being squashed. If CNN and other major news outlets were reporting it then, they are backing away from the story now. My guess: too many upset Catholics.

[soulster]

I agree with you 1000 percent soulster.

Roberta

This topic is probably the only thing you and I can agree on around here.

[144man]

If I had covered up the rape and shameless ruination of 200 innocent deaf boys and thousands of others I'd be real mentally and physically weak as well. You cant sleep with that on your consience or be physically strong with the weight of harboring pedophiles on your body. May he see the faces of those precious and innocent children every moment of every living day and may God ultimately forgive him for putting his church and his clergy over innocent children.

This Uk paper mention the child abuse.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...buse-survivors

This is a real informative opinion IMO

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae...b_2707208.html

Roberta

That doesn't mean that the Pope thinks it as important an issue as we all do...he's not exactly living in the real world.

[marv2]

That doesn't mean that the Pope thinks it as important an issue as we all do...he's not exactly living in the real world.

Here's a question. Didn't the church admit to wrong doing, abuse by some priests when the awarding of financial settlements began?

[marv2]

Any thoughts on who the next Pope will be? I've keep hearing the Archbishop of Montreal, Christian Lépine as a strong candidate. I've also heard Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York mentioned, but I cannot see an American Pope ,at least not yet.

[144man]

Here's a question. Didn't the church admit to wrong doing, abuse by some priests when the awarding of financial settlements began?

I don't know the answer to that. I can speculate that they thought the problem might go away after a few payouts. Organisations as large as the Church have a real nproblem with inertia, and when you get a Head who is as inherently conservative as Benedict is, it's not surprising that as little as possible was done to deal with the problem.

[144man]

The speculation in the British Press was that the next Pope would be African. If the election gets too political, a South American might be a good compromise.

[Roberta75]

This topic is probably the only thing you and I can agree on around here.

Well its a start soulster.

Roberta

[Roberta75]

That doesn't mean that the Pope thinks it as important an issue as we all do...he's not exactly living in the real world.

Hes more interested in crusading against gay marriage and a womans right to chose and blocking birth control than coming clean about his part in the covering up of vile pedophiles.

Roberta

[soulster]

Agree again!

[Jerry Oz]

Any thoughts on who the next Pope will be? I've keep hearing the Archbishop of Montreal, Christian Lépine as a strong candidate. I've also heard Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York mentioned, but I cannot see an American Pope ,at least not yet.

Most of the stories I've seen have indicated that there will NEVER be a North American pope. They rely on Americans to put money in the pot, keep their opinions to themselves, and their mouths shut, apparently. And if we ever have an African pope, the last thing that I'll need to see before I die will be flying pigs.

[soulster]

Just another reason I am anti-religious. Jesus warned about religion too.

[Jerry Oz]

People put their faith in other people instead of the principles they allege to preach. Although I attend church regularly, I know how to read and if my pastor says something that he cannot support through the Bible, it's not part of my belief system. And I do have some differences in my beliefs that 99% of other Christians would consider to be heretical. But I don't really care.

[Roberta75]

If Cardinal Mahony of LA and Cardinal Dolan of New York were involved in this in an ideal world they should share the same jail cell as Benedict IMO

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/21/ny...ndal.html?_r=0

[Jerry Oz]

Roberta, the irony of all of this [[to me, anyway) is how Jesus railed against the Pharisees who thought that they were too high-minded and important to worry about the spiritual business of faith and Godliness. They were more concerned with appearances their roles and the function of religion than they were with their appointed duty to lead others to salvation.

That sounds a lot like what happened in the minds of the leaders of the Catholic church who thought that wolves could dwell with sheep so long as nobody found out about it. In my opinion, these "leaders" are more culpable than the perverts who acted on their base instincts because they had the obligation to help the predator and the prey, but they did neither.

[Roberta75]

Roberta, the irony of all of this [[to me, anyway) is how Jesus railed against the Pharisees who thought that they were too high-minded and important to worry about the spiritual business of faith and Godliness. They were more concerned with appearances their roles and the function of religion than they were with their appointed duty to lead others to salvation.

That sounds a lot like what happened in the minds of the leaders of the Catholic church who thought that wolves could dwell with sheep so long as nobody found out about it. In my opinion, these "leaders" are more culpable than the perverts who acted on their base instincts because they had the obligation to help the predator and the prey, but they did neither.

I couldnt have said it better if I tried Jerry Oz. To put your fellow priests and cardinals above the rape and abuse of innocent children is one of the most gravest sins a person can commit.

The pope and his cardinals and bishops are real concerned about the Catholic church going broke because of lawsuits from child abuse and real concerned about same sex marriage and obsessed with a womans right to choose and birth control but showed little or no compassion or concern for the tens of thousands of innocent children who were cruelly abused and scarred by the very priests that rally against abortion and same sex marriage and birth control. The hypocrisy and crimes by these men is disgraceful.

Roberta