Diana Leaves the Supremes, the "new" Supremes, Diana solo questions.....

[marybrewster]

A couple of questions regarding Diana's departure from the Supremes.....

(worm can = opened)

It's my understanding that in October/November of 1969, Motown announced Diana would leave the Supremes. Knowing that shows are typically booked months and months, up to a year in advance, were the Las Vegas "Farewell" dates already booked, and suddenly became the "Farewell" show, or were these dates added after the announcement?

Were there any dates beyond January, 1970 that were already booked? If so, did the "new" Supremes fulfill those dates or did Diana fulfill any of those dates solo?

If "Someday" would have failed, was there a "backup" plan? Would Diana still have gone solo, or was there another single slated for release under "DRATS" so "the girls" could go out on top?

It's been said that while still with Diana, Mary and Cindy recorded with Jean for the first "new" Supremes LP. Was Diana recording her solo LP at the same time, or did recording start after she offically left?

How come Diana never appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show solo, but the "new" Supremes did?

Did Diana take ANY of the Supremes gowns when she left?

[midnight johnny]

Woweeewowwowwoww....I can't answer any of those questions....but, marybrewster....they are GREAT questions. I will be lurking to see the answers....

[reese]

From what I've read, it doesn't seem as if there was a detailed plan for Diana's departure, other than the hiring of Jean, and the recording of their respective debuts. I would think there might have been a farewell tour if there had been more time.

SOMEDAY was supposed to be one of Diana's solo releases. But Shelly Berger convinced Berry to put it out under the Supremes. According to the cd liner notes, Ashford and Simpson began recording solo tracks for Diana's first solo album in November of 1969, before SOMEDAY had even charted. Later that month, Diana began cutting solo tracks with Bones Howe. Once SOMEDAY began to hit, I think that's when the already booked Frontier engagement became the FAREWELL engagement. I assume that since engagements are booked many months in advance that Jean, Mary,and Cindy went on to fulfill engagements that had already been booked past then

When Diana went solo, she was being groomed as a big superstar, a la Streisand. To that end, such stars don't really need television. I suppose it makes each tv show that they do a big event. That first year, 1970, Diana only did Merv Griffin, and that was it. The next year, she was on MAKE ROOM FOR GRANDADDY, and her own special.

Why JMC only did Sullivan once, I have no idea. He was on the air until early 1971, so they could gone on to prform EVERYBODY'S GOT THE RIGHT, RIVER DEEP, and STONED LOVE on his show. But they were on many other tv shows during that time.

Re gowns, I believe Mary said that when Diana left, all gowns and music were turned over to Mary. Diana has written the same.

[BayouMotownMan]

It was decided that the Frontier engagement would be Ross's farewell. Gordy had started cutting back on their personal appearances in the summer of 1969 and Diana began making television appearances without the Supremes.

When Jean began recording for Motown she did so as a soloist. It was "assumed" that she would take over the Supremes but this didn't become official until months later. Gordy wanted her under contract so as not to have to pay off contracts with other record companies, etc., (which she didn't have) in the event she was chosen. Gordy did have some reservations about Jean, but Cindy and Mary, after meeting Jean, wanted her. They wanted Ross's replacement to be their choice and not Gordy's. Gordy leaned heavily toward Syreeta all along. But Mary didn't want another protege' to work with. Jean eventually won out but it was rocky for a while. Several tracks on the Right On lp comes from Jean's solo recordings before she was officially a Supreme

It was my understanding that bookings for Diana Ross and the Supremes after the Farewell show were re-negotiated for the Supremes in 1970.

Diana accidentally kept one set of gowns. The black and red sequined gown worn on TCB for The Rhythm of Life with the Temptations came as a set of three for each lady. Diana found it in her collection a good while after leaving the group. She is wearing it in one of the photos used for Diana Ross at Caesars's Palace.

Ross never did Sullivan because Gordy restricted her tv exposure until he could get a grip on her recording success. This didn't happen for over two years. She did a few shows and did the Danny Thomas show because it was part of an agreement to get Thomas for her 1971 TV special. Before Lady Sings The Blues, Ross was considered an underdog in Hollywood and there wasn't a really great demand for her. Gordy would never lower her price however. After the Supremes triumphant Sullivan debut they in greater demand. Sullivan's last year in television was not a good one. His ratings plummeted and it was getting harder for him to get the bigger name acts. It's also been suggested that Sullivan didn't think the Supremes were the same without Ross. Bob Precht utilized the Supremes in greater ways other than their Motown hits, doing Broadway tunes, etc. Jean simply didn't have the background for this type of material, she was soulful and down to earth. This could be why they were not asked back.

I don't know of any backup plan but in my opinion if Someday had failed Gordy would still have pulled her out of the group. But everyone at Motown knew Someday was a hit, so he gave his usual ultimatums to his promotion department and felt comfortable with it's success. And yes, it was initially going to be Ross's solo debut. Had it not been a hit he would have simply invested the money in getting Ross her solo hits rather than group hits.

[jobeterob]

This is why Diana Ross left the Supremes...............

[jillfoster]

Gordy restricted her TV exposure until he could get a grip on her recording success? That's got to be one of the most asinine things i've ever heard. He knew that TV exposure had always been the key to the Supremes success... so no man in his right mind would keep her off the tube.

[Jimi LaLumia]

and some might imagine that when the 'new 'Supremes took off like a rocket,and "Reach out and Touch" didn't,maybe Gordy didn't WANT the girls to appear more successful without Ross than Ross was without the girls..that would make sense from a business stand point, no? his whole premise was that Diana had outgrown the group, and here they were having hits right and left without her, and she had "Ain't No Mountain"..and then, for a while, nothing..this is not snark,just a business observation; if he was gonna let one of the acts sink for the sake of the other, who do you think the sink-er would be?..maybe Motown didn't want the group on Sullivan anymore for that reason..

[captainjames]

Honestly, and I mean no disrespect to Berry or to Diana but if Mr. Gordy was going to make money off Jean, Cindy and Mary he would continue to push them. I don't believe he tried nor did anything to crush them from being successful. Now, what I think is that he wasn't going to invest a lot of money in the new act (The Supremes). I am curious now as to how "Reach Out and Touch" has done monetarily since its release back in 1970. This became a showstopper in most of Diana's earlier concerts and has been re-corded by several gospel singers and is recognizable when heard now.

[luke]

Very nice-I wish some people would also say they mean no disrespect to Mary when they type things! Berry was rattled-Diana's big solo gig poor sales-people given twenty dollar bills to come in; Reach Out didnt do as well as Up the Ladder. I doubt he planned hurt the new Supremes but keep in mind Mary had crossed him over Syreeta, he was banking Motown fortunes on Diana and movies so it would be understandable to focus more on Diana. Its common knowledge the Supremes did not get the gowns etc that they got when DR there. And no disrespect to Diana but how would she feel if the Supremes kept doing better--we know her ego and Berry was her lover for cryin out loud! And what message to the company does it give when the head says "I wash my hands of the group" to Mary per Jean/Syreeta? Its amazing the Supremes did as well as they did from 1970 on.

[marybrewster]

Thank you Bayou/reese/all for all of the great information.

[RossHolloway]

I think the New Supreme's were no different than a lot of the established groups/artists at Motown during the early 70's. Look at some of them who left the label during this time frame: Glady Knight and the Pips, The Spinners, Jimmy Ruffin and also those supergroups that left by the mid 70s: The Temptations, The Miracles. I mean how could Berry AND Smokey Robinson let the Miracles leave the Motown stable?! You know something had to be seriously wrong at the label to let the Miracles slip away! And this is not to mention the slow fade of the Marvelettes and Martha & The Vandellas. Looking back on things only the artists or groups that took control of their careers in the early 70's (Wonder and Gaye) or were still under Gordy's guidance or focus really stayed on top into the 70's and beyond (Ross, J5). I've never for a minute every believed that Mr. Gordy was out to destroy the Supreme's. He just put his focus elsewhere. I do wonder if he would have focused more on the group if Syreeta had taken over as lead singer, as he had wanted. One can only wonder what direction the group would have gone in with her on lead. Wasn't there also the rumor that once upon a time that Tammi T was being considered to take Ross' place in the group before her sickness? Now that would have been something!

[bradsupremes]

Although it would have been something to see Tammi Terrell join the Supremes, I think she would have fallen into the same category as Syreeta if she ever was considered. Tammi had already established her name with Marvin Gaye and recorded multiple singles for the label under her name. Even though the Supremes were the hottest act on the label, I don't think Tammi would have wanted to give up her slowly rising solo career for the spot as the lead vocalist in a group where her name wouldn't be out front. I can understand the serious consideration for Syreeta since she really didn't have much of a solo career by 1970, but she wouldn't have lasted long in the group if she took over either. After a couple of hits under their belts, she would have left the group just like Diana did to focus on a solo career.

I don't understand the flack that Mary gets for standing up to Berry for wanting Jean. If anything, she should be applauded for standing up to him. Jean was the best choice to replace Diana. If Berry had his way, it would be "Diana Ross & The Supremes" rehashed and he and/or Stevie would have groomed Syreeta for a solo career from the get-go. The Supremes would have become a stepping stone for those wanting a solo career with the main focus on the lead vocalist rather than the group. With Jean, the focus was back on the group as a whole.

I have always thought that the reason why the "new" Supremes were so successful between 1970-1972 was due to the fact that the Black community re-embraced the group. Jean added the soul that was missing and the Supremes became re-appealing to the black crowd unlike the last years with Diana where the focus was on appealing the white community.

[captainjames]

Ross your absolutely right, I remember the rumor about Tammi Terrell, Florence Ballard, and even Mary Wilson taking the lead. I don't think Flo was ready or that it was in the "group's" plan to bring her back. I think Mary was tried on things like Hollywood Palace and given some lead spots in shows but, I don't feel she was ready or that it was the best image for the group then.

However, you hit upon something with Syreeta as Lead singer for the group. Mr. Gordy is open minded but would be quick to remind one that it is his company. Mr. Gordy was creative and had visions and I think I personally would have considered his suggestion. However, I wasn't a SUPREME and Mary was. Now with all due respect to Mary she was probably at the point where she was frustrated, over worked, scared, feeling deserted and the fact that she was carrying a heavy load by herself. So, her first line of defense would had been "NO" we are not turning this train around after working this long with this new girl. They would have went a different direction with Syreeta and I feel they would have stayed more in the Silk, Sequin Gowns, and long hair and show tunes type of group. I always felt Berry changed his mind over something that was said or done at the Farewell show but I can't swear to that. Syreeta was a good writer as well but, I don't feel Berry would have let her write for the group.

I think the New Supreme's were no different than a lot of the established groups/artists at Motown during the early 70's. Look at some of them who left the label during this time frame: Glady Knight and the Pips, The Spinners, Jimmy Ruffin and also those supergroups that left by the mid 70s: The Temptations, The Miracles. I mean how could Berry AND Smokey Robinson let the Miracles leave the Motown stable?! You know something had to be seriously wrong at the label to let the Miracles slip away! And this is not to mention the slow fade of the Marvelettes and Martha & The Vandellas. Looking back on things only the artists or groups that took control of their careers in the early 70's (Wonder and Gaye) or were still under Gordy's guidance or focus really stayed on top into the 70's and beyond (Ross, J5). I've never for a minute every believed that Mr. Gordy was out to destroy the Supreme's. He just put his focus elsewhere. I do wonder if he would have focused more on the group if Syreeta had taken over as lead singer, as he had wanted. One can only wonder what direction the group would have gone in with her on lead. Wasn't there also the rumor that once upon a time that Tammi T was being considered to take Ross' place in the group before her sickness? Now that would have been something!

[captainjames]

Oh No I would never give Mary flack for speaking her mind but as President of the company (and perhaps they did) they should have sat down and discussed instead of over the telephone as it has been recorded. That left it unresolved. Also, Jean was a good choice and I believe Mr. Gordy is the one who actually found her and made the offer but like I said something happen that changed his mind and they (Mary and Cindy) and Berry should have sat down and talked it through so that he wouldn't wash his hands of them as it has been stated. At any rate, it seems Mary had challenges with Jean as well while in the group and she ended up leaving in 1973 for a solo career as well.

Although it would have been something to see Tammi Terrell join the Supremes, I think she would have fallen into the same category as Syreeta if she ever was considered. Tammi had already established her name with Marvin Gaye and recorded multiple singles for the label under her name. Even though the Supremes were the hottest act on the label, I don't think Tammi would have wanted to give up her slowly rising solo career for the spot as the lead vocalist in a group where her name wouldn't be out front. I can understand the serious consideration for Syreeta since she really didn't have much of a solo career by 1970, but she wouldn't have lasted long in the group if she took over either. After a couple of hits under their belts, she would have left the group just like Diana did to focus on a solo career.

I don't understand the flack that Mary gets for standing up to Berry for wanting Jean. If anything, she should be applauded for standing up to him. Jean was the best choice to replace Diana. If Berry had his way, it would be "Diana Ross & The Supremes" rehashed and he and/or Stevie would have groomed Syreeta for a solo career from the get-go. The Supremes would have become a stepping stone for those wanting a solo career with the main focus on the lead vocalist rather than the group. With Jean, the focus was back on the group as a whole.

I have always thought that the reason why the "new" Supremes were so successful between 1970-1972 was due to the fact that the Black community re-embraced the group. Jean added the soul that was missing and the Supremes became re-appealing to the black crowd unlike the last years with Diana where the focus was on appealing the white community.

[marybrewster]

IF the group had carried on with Syreeta, do you all think that they would have had the same writers out of the gate that the Jean-lead Supremes did? Would Syreeta be given "Up the Ladder" and "Stoned Loved"? I just can't see Syreeta fitting that mold. And if that's the case, was there a guarantee that the Supremes would "hit" with Syreeta, thus her eventually leaving the group for a solo career? While Syreeta did go on to have a few minor hits, IMO it was nothing that was amazing, or would have warranted this huge solo career.

In the end though, didn't Jean do what Mary was afraid Syreeta would do? Although Jean didn't go for the solo career right after the group, she ended up leaving anyway. I wonder what the outcome would have been if Syreeta was in, and the group had Berry's blessings, versus "hand washing".

[skooldem1]

Some of the same things have been said over and over, through the years and I still don't totally believe them. The "new" Supremes weren't more soulful, or more accepted by the black community. The last couple of records for DRATS were very soulful, the Jean grouping just continued on down the road that was already paved by DRATS. (Love Child, I'm gonna make you love me, Someday We'll be together). From the various clips I've seen, I also don't think they were visually more of a group either. Granted, at times Diana was separated on stage from the others, but so was Jean- just not to the extreme. On record the other girls did get more "lines" but that was about it. The black community has always been proud of Diana Ross, and also the Supremes. In regards to Diana, she was a huge star so negative talk is always gonna be part of the territory, but don't let comedians and haters fool you. The community loved both entities. Ever look at the crowds for Diana's earlier concerts (70's and 80's?) They were not all white. Another thing is the fact that people like to make it seem as though Diana Ross struggled for years before her career took off. No. That is simply not the case. First single top 40, not to bad. SECOND single, her next single was a monster hit. Number one across the board and grammy nominated. No struggle. I see the Supremes as a train that just ran out of steam. They were very successful in their last year or so with Diana, so when it came time to pass the baton to Jean, the group just kept on going. The most important factor in the early success of the Jean lead Supremes was the fact that they had 2 great songs with Stone Love and Up the ladder. It was the songs, the production. Not so much who sang it . They were just great songs. After that they ran out of steam and were right back to singing "Somewhere" and silly songs like Floy Joy. It didn't last long. Diana had the luxury of getting early success, so during the not so successful times, she was able to at least try out different sounds, reinvent herself, prepped for a highly rated TV special, a motion picture, record the soundtrack for the movie ect. Her plate was full. But if some want to concentrate on the days/months that the new Supremes had a "hit" before Diana, I just think its funny.

[skooldem1]

One also has to remember that this was before MTV created stars. The Supremes were an institution, and Diana was the new gal on the block. She was the one that had to prove herself. There are no guarantees when a person leaves a group that they will have a successful solo career. Odds are they don't. Not only did she do it, but she went on to become one of the most successful entertainers in history. Grammys (cause the haters love to mention them) be damned. She earned the highest honor an entertainer can get in the USA with the Kennedy Center Honor. While I'm at it, why do some still like to bring up the last time she had a "pop" hit? At her age??? Really? True success comes from having an album chart and sell. Aint no more pop hits for Diana. She has had good success in the 2000's. Two top albums and a hit with Rod Stewart. Amazing when you think about it that she is still able to enjoy these type of successes.

[RossHolloway]

Skooldem1- You make a lot of great points. Diana is a legend and an ICON at this point. If she was of no consequence then people wouldn't write about her or hate on her. She has had a truly remarkable career filled with ups and downs, like every other artist of her stature. I mean, when was the last time Paul McCartney or the Rolling Stones or Aretha Franklin had a top 40 "pop hit"? I don't think their fans care. I think their fans just love the fact that these acts are still around and performing. And while a grammy would have been nice on her career resume, it doesnt distract from all that she has achieved and and done. Plus look at all the artists/groups who have won grammys and have since faded into oblivion. I'm sure there are tons of grammy winning artists who would trade them in today for a chance to perform before a sell out crowd like Diana Ross.

[milven]

Diana is in good company. Check out these other artists who have never received a Grammy. The Supremes and Diana are included in the top ten
http://www.toptenz.net/muscians-who-...won-grammy.php

[paulo]

Most people outside of this site would know who Diana Ross and / or The Supremes are. Yes? Can anyone remember who won American Idol or the X-Factor last year? I thought not.

[skooldem1]

Can someone confirm if technically Diana and Mary have a Grammy for (Stop in the name of love). The song was inducted a few years ago. Or is that for the songwriters? I know its not a competitive win, but does it count?

[captainjames]

Let's not concentrate on the Grammy - it is without a doubt not without its controversy. I gave up on this award when they awarded one to Milli Vinilli only to be exposed eight months later for lip-syncing everything!

[skooldem1]

I was never a fan of these awards. They are nothing but a bunch of rich musicians- for the most part, patting themselves on the back. Making themselve feel "important". There are more important things in the world. I can get into "achievement, or lifetime achievement" type of awards but thats the extent of it. These "awards" are just marketing ploys.

[smark21]

Can someone confirm if technically Diana and Mary have a Grammy for (Stop in the name of love). The song was inducted a few years ago. Or is that for the songwriters? I know its not a competitive win, but does it count?

Stop was honored with a Grammy Song Hall of Fame Honor, so it would have been HDH that were honored as the songwriters.

[marv2]

It was decided that the Frontier engagement would be Ross's farewell. Gordy had started cutting back on their personal appearances in the summer of 1969 and Diana began making television appearances without the Supremes.

When Jean began recording for Motown she did so as a soloist. It was "assumed" that she would take over the Supremes but this didn't become official until months later. Gordy wanted her under contract so as not to have to pay off contracts with other record companies, etc., (which she didn't have) in the event she was chosen. Gordy did have some reservations about Jean, but Cindy and Mary, after meeting Jean, wanted her. They wanted Ross's replacement to be their choice and not Gordy's. Gordy leaned heavily toward Syreeta all along. But Mary didn't want another protege' to work with. Jean eventually won out but it was rocky for a while. Several tracks on the Right On lp comes from Jean's solo recordings before she was officially a Supreme

It was my understanding that bookings for Diana Ross and the Supremes after the Farewell show were re-negotiated for the Supremes in 1970.

Diana accidentally kept one set of gowns. The black and red sequined gown worn on TCB for The Rhythm of Life with the Temptations came as a set of three for each lady. Diana found it in her collection a good while after leaving the group. She is wearing it in one of the photos used for Diana Ross at Caesars's Palace.

Ross never did Sullivan because Gordy restricted her tv exposure until he could get a grip on her recording success. This didn't happen for over two years. She did a few shows and did the Danny Thomas show because it was part of an agreement to get Thomas for her 1971 TV special. Before Lady Sings The Blues, Ross was considered an underdog in Hollywood and there wasn't a really great demand for her. Gordy would never lower her price however. After the Supremes triumphant Sullivan debut they in greater demand. Sullivan's last year in television was not a good one. His ratings plummeted and it was getting harder for him to get the bigger name acts. It's also been suggested that Sullivan didn't think the Supremes were the same without Ross. Bob Precht utilized the Supremes in greater ways other than their Motown hits, doing Broadway tunes, etc. Jean simply didn't have the background for this type of material, she was soulful and down to earth. This could be why they were not asked back.

I don't know of any backup plan but in my opinion if Someday had failed Gordy would still have pulled her out of the group. But everyone at Motown knew Someday was a hit, so he gave his usual ultimatums to his promotion department and felt comfortable with it's success. And yes, it was initially going to be Ross's solo debut. Had it not been a hit he would have simply invested the money in getting Ross her solo hits rather than group hits.

That is not at all how Berry Gordy Jr or Jean Terrell described her situation. According to Berry from the first night he met Jean in Miami performing with her brothers, he asked her if she would be interested in replacing Diana Ross in the Supremes. There was no "assuming" on either of their parts.

Jean has said more than once that she was being signed to Motown Records as a Supreme. They had her sign a individual, solo artist contract only because the Supremes were already signed to the label so there was no need to have Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong sign new contracts just because Jean Terrell was joining the group. Jean said that she was only and always suppose to be in the Supremes when she signed her contract with Motown.

Jean did not have to win out over anything or fight for her spot in the Supremes.....she was already chosen. This mess about Syreeta replacing Jean and Berry trying to force the issue was more of a spontaneous reaction over an interpersonal misunderstanding. Nothing more, nothing less. Berry, Mary and Cindy made the right choice in the end.

[marv2]

Some of the same things have been said over and over, through the years and I still don't totally believe them. The "new" Supremes weren't more soulful, or more accepted by the black community. The last couple of records for DRATS were very soulful, the Jean grouping just continued on down the road that was already paved by DRATS. (Love Child, I'm gonna make you love me, Someday We'll be together). From the various clips I've seen, I also don't think they were visually more of a group either. Granted, at times Diana was separated on stage from the others, but so was Jean- just not to the extreme. On record the other girls did get more "lines" but that was about it. The black community has always been proud of Diana Ross, and also the Supremes. In regards to Diana, she was a huge star so negative talk is always gonna be part of the territory, but don't let comedians and haters fool you. The community loved both entities. Ever look at the crowds for Diana's earlier concerts (70's and 80's?) They were not all white. Another thing is the fact that people like to make it seem as though Diana Ross struggled for years before her career took off. No. That is simply not the case. First single top 40, not to bad. SECOND single, her next single was a monster hit. Number one across the board and grammy nominated. No struggle. I see the Supremes as a train that just ran out of steam. They were very successful in their last year or so with Diana, so when it came time to pass the baton to Jean, the group just kept on going. The most important factor in the early success of the Jean lead Supremes was the fact that they had 2 great songs with Stone Love and Up the ladder. It was the songs, the production. Not so much who sang it . They were just great songs. After that they ran out of steam and were right back to singing "Somewhere" and silly songs like Floy Joy. It didn't last long. Diana had the luxury of getting early success, so during the not so successful times, she was able to at least try out different sounds, reinvent herself, prepped for a highly rated TV special, a motion picture, record the soundtrack for the movie ect. Her plate was full. But if some want to concentrate on the days/months that the new Supremes had a "hit" before Diana, I just think its funny.

Ok, explain why the Supremes were able to score a hit immediately with Jean Terrell, where it took them 8-10 tries, records in the beginning with Diana Ross singing lead?

Keep in mind that the Supremes in 1970 with Jean Terrell did not have Holland-Dozier-Holland, Berry Gordy, Diana Ross and some say the full support of Motown when they hit the Top 10 not long after the New Year with " Up the Ladder to the Roof"!

"Floy Joy" was not a silly song. It was a soulful, upbeat song about a player. "Pieces of Ice" and "Eaten Alive" are silly songs.........

Marv

[marv2]

Oh No I would never give Mary flack for speaking her mind but as President of the company (and perhaps they did) they should have sat down and discussed instead of over the telephone as it has been recorded. That left it unresolved. Also, Jean was a good choice and I believe Mr. Gordy is the one who actually found her and made the offer but like I said something happen that changed his mind and they (Mary and Cindy) and Berry should have sat down and talked it through so that he wouldn't wash his hands of them as it has been stated. At any rate, it seems Mary had challenges with Jean as well while in the group and she ended up leaving in 1973 for a solo career as well.

The type of situation it was they couldn't have sat down and discussed it. Here's a clue, focus a bit on what you posted about "instead of over the telephone....." and the documented circumstances that led to the issue being discussed abruptly over the phone.

Marv

[marv2]

Most people outside of this site would know who Diana Ross and / or The Supremes are. Yes? Can anyone remember who won American Idol or the X-Factor last year? I thought not.

I don't even watch those shows. One thing the Supremes and many now legendary musical acts had to their advantage was a lack of the techology that we enjoy today. Back then there were basically three major television networks that the majority of American households watched regularly. There were huge television audiences for these artists guest appearances. Everyone watched pretty much the same things at the same time!

Today with 300 plus channels on cable with nothing on, it is more difficult for up and coming artists to get THAT kind of broad based exposure.

[marv2]

Let's not concentrate on the Grammy - it is without a doubt not without its controversy. I gave up on this award when they awarded one to Milli Vinilli only to be exposed eight months later for lip-syncing everything!

Oh come on, you like everyone else (including NARAS) was fooled when it came to Milli Vanilli until the truth came out. The Grammy is still the most prestigous award in the Music Industry. It is still highly sought after.......

[captainjames]

LOL
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That is where your wrong MARVY
I have never been a fan of the Grammy ,,,, Never Ever Ever
and Milli Vinelli was always the most ridiculeous act I have every seen.

Oh come on, you like everyone else (including NARAS) was fooled when it came to Milli Vanilli until the truth came out. The Grammy is still the most prestigous award in the Music Industry. It is still highly sought after.......

[BayouMotownMan]

This is from the mouth of Jean Terrell to me in a 1978 interview.

"After meeting Berry Gordy in Miami he spoke to my brother (Ernie). He mentioned the possibility of me replacing Diana. Then he flew us out to Los Angeles where I LATER met Mary and Cindy."

Not only was there some uncertainty but Jean Terrell was still performing with her brothers band as late as Sept 1969. She had Motown's consent of course but videos of a New Orleans performance are included in Jean's DVD. This was that show. I helped Jean put together her DVD.

Berry Gordy did have Jean in mind for that position...but other women were being looked at as well. This is why Jean didn't immediately start recording with Mary and Cindy, she recorded many tracks as a soloist.

There was still some uncertainty as to WHEN Diana would be pulled out and just who would replace her. Jean likely was a priority candidate, but she was never signed to the company as a Supreme, but simply as Jean Terrell. She had no contracts with Mary as did latter day Supremes. Strictly with Motown. She asked Berry Gordy to release her in June 1973. As she also told me, he wasn't happy about it but forcing her to stay against her will would not have served any good to anyone.

As far as what problems Jean was having with Berry, that is not something for me to say. It can be said however, that Jean was no Diana Ross and didn't take his every dictation as efficiently as the other ladies in the Supremes did. Jean was like Flo, she spoke her mind. Gordy didn't like it.

[captainjames]

Sorry, Lets agree to disagree on this one.
No situation is that strained where you can't sit down and talk it through and it is healthy to do so. All this did was built a bigger wedge. I am not saying it was Mary, Cindy or Berry that should have initiated it but someone should have.

The type of situation it was they couldn't have sat down and discussed it. Here's a clue, focus a bit on what you posted about "instead of over the telephone....." and the documented circumstances that led to the issue being discussed abruptly over the phone.

Marv

[marv2]

LOL
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That is where your wrong MARVY
I have never been a fan of the Grammy ,,,, Never Ever Ever
and Milli Vinelli was always the most ridiculeous act I have every seen.

You may have never been a fan of the Grammy Awards, but you are also not in the industry!

[RossHolloway]

Do not feed the trolls!!

[captainjames]

HAHAHAHAHA
Wait for it........................Wait for it.................
WRONG !!!!

You may have never been a fan of the Grammy Awards, but you are also not in the industry!

[marv2]

This is from the mouth of Jean Terrell to me in a 1978 interview.

"After meeting Berry Gordy in Miami he spoke to my brother (Ernie). He mentioned the possibility of me replacing Diana. Then he flew us out to Los Angeles where I LATER met Mary and Cindy."

Not only was there some uncertainty but Jean Terrell was still performing with her brothers band as late as Sept 1969. She had Motown's consent of course but videos of a New Orleans performance are included in Jean's DVD. This was that show. I helped Jean put together her DVD.

Berry Gordy did have Jean in mind for that position...but other women were being looked at as well. This is why Jean didn't immediately start recording with Mary and Cindy, she recorded many tracks as a soloist.

There was still some uncertainty as to WHEN Diana would be pulled out and just who would replace her. Jean likely was a priority candidate, but she was never signed to the company as a Supreme, but simply as Jean Terrell. She had no contracts with Mary as did latter day Supremes. Strictly with Motown. She asked Berry Gordy to release her in June 1973. As she also told me, he wasn't happy about it but forcing her to stay against her will would not have served any good to anyone.

As far as what problems Jean was having with Berry, that is not something for me to say. It can be said however, that Jean was no Diana Ross and didn't take his every dictation as efficiently as the other ladies in the Supremes did. Jean was like Flo, she spoke her mind. Gordy didn't like it.

I just explained why she had to be signed to the company as a solo artist, so that is not an issue. Why do you bring up that Jean had no contracts with Mary Wilsons' "Supremes Inc." (I am assuming that is what you are referring to...)when that is not even a part of the topic of this immediate discussion.

Oh she certainly wasn't a "Diana Ross" and I will leave it at that LOL!

Now this business about Jean asking Berry for a release from her contract in 1973 is a little bit more than suspicious given the fact that Ewart was President and in charge at that time and also because when Berry ran into Jean at some function (IN THE 2000's!!!), he asked her "well what happened? Why'd you leave?".

I am just telling you what they said.........

[marv2]

Sorry, Lets agree to disagree on this one.
No situation is that strained where you can't sit down and talk it through and it is healthy to do so. All this did was built a bigger wedge. I am not saying it was Mary, Cindy or Berry that should have initiated it but someone should have.

Just don't get it.

[captainjames]

You are absolutely right BayouMotownMan
and because Jean was so vocal and would not take Berry's dictation is why she went no further with Motown. Not hating just saying that is the way it is when the guy giving the directions is the boss.

This is from the mouth of Jean Terrell to me in a 1978 interview.

"After meeting Berry Gordy in Miami he spoke to my brother (Ernie). He mentioned the possibility of me replacing Diana. Then he flew us out to Los Angeles where I LATER met Mary and Cindy."

Not only was there some uncertainty but Jean Terrell was still performing with her brothers band as late as Sept 1969. She had Motown's consent of course but videos of a New Orleans performance are included in Jean's DVD. This was that show. I helped Jean put together her DVD.

Berry Gordy did have Jean in mind for that position...but other women were being looked at as well. This is why Jean didn't immediately start recording with Mary and Cindy, she recorded many tracks as a soloist.

There was still some uncertainty as to WHEN Diana would be pulled out and just who would replace her. Jean likely was a priority candidate, but she was never signed to the company as a Supreme, but simply as Jean Terrell. She had no contracts with Mary as did latter day Supremes. Strictly with Motown. She asked Berry Gordy to release her in June 1973. As she also told me, he wasn't happy about it but forcing her to stay against her will would not have served any good to anyone.

As far as what problems Jean was having with Berry, that is not something for me to say. It can be said however, that Jean was no Diana Ross and didn't take his every dictation as efficiently as the other ladies in the Supremes did. Jean was like Flo, she spoke her mind. Gordy didn't like it.

[marv2]

Gordy restricted her TV exposure until he could get a grip on her recording success? That's got to be one of the most asinine things i've ever heard. He knew that TV exposure had always been the key to the Supremes success... so no man in his right mind would keep her off the tube.

Ah HAHA! Stop it! hehehehehehe...... It makes sense to him and that is all that matters in some cases. LOL!

[marv2]

You are absolutely right BayouMotownMan
and because Jean was so vocal and would not take Berry's dictation is why she went no further with Motown. Not hating just saying that is the way it is when the guy giving the directions is the boss.

He is not absolutely right. Cut it out! Dictation? Jean was not a secretary or an administrative assistant. You are a big Diana Ross so you should already know who started off as his secretary.

[captainjames]

Who ?? Martha Reeves ????
LOLOLOLOL
Diana was hardly a secretary she barely took dictation or even answered the phones. In fact all she did was file papers whenever they needed it.

He is not absolutely right. Cut it out! Dictation? Jean was not a secretary or an administrative assistant. You are a big Diana Ross so you should already know who started off as his secretary.

[marv2]

and some might imagine that when the 'new 'Supremes took off like a rocket,and "Reach out and Touch" didn't,maybe Gordy didn't WANT the girls to appear more successful without Ross than Ross was without the girls..that would make sense from a business stand point, no? his whole premise was that Diana had outgrown the group, and here they were having hits right and left without her, and she had "Ain't No Mountain"..and then, for a while, nothing..this is not snark,just a business observation; if he was gonna let one of the acts sink for the sake of the other, who do you think the sink-er would be?..maybe Motown didn't want the group on Sullivan anymore for that reason..

You made some great points Jimi. Incidently, Gladys Knight & the Pips appeared on the Sullivan Show in 1971 and performed their lastest release, "If I Was Your Woman" and guess what? They got a huge hit directly afterwards.

[marv2]

Who ?? Martha Reeves ????
LOLOLOLOL
Diana was hardly a secretary she barely took dictation or even answered the phones. In fact all she did was file papers whenever they needed it.

I don't know how old you are, but that is not all that she did.

[jobeterob]

Interesting, Diana and Mary listened to Berry for years................basically they both stopped about the same time.........about 1977/1978...........about 35 years of age. Berry did a lot for them both but all relationships, unless they include marriage, eventually change and fade.

[jillfoster]

Oh come on, you like everyone else (including NARAS) was fooled when it came to Milli Vanilli until the truth came out. The Grammy is still the most prestigous award in the Music Industry. It is still highly sought after.......

I can tell you this, Marv.. I was not fooled for one minute about Milli Vanilli. Once they opened their mouths to speak, and could BARELY speak english, I knew without a doubt that they didn't sing on those records, the talking voices were also VERY diffeent from the singing voices. Speaking of voices and broken english, I think that was one HUGE reason Pedro as Manager failed with Motown. I think just NOBODY wanted to deal with him because you can't understand a word he says! It's easier to understand CHARO!

[atcsm]

You made some great points Jimi. Incidently, Gladys Knight & the Pips appeared on the Sullivan Show in 1971 and performed their lastest release, "If I Was Your Woman" and guess what? They got a huge hit directly afterwards.

wow - you crazy

[captainjames]

Are you serious ?
That's your response ?
You are only yung once but you can be immature forever.

I don't know how old you are, but that is not all that she did.

[smark21]

Who ?? Martha Reeves ????
LOLOLOLOL
Diana was hardly a secretary she barely took dictation or even answered the phones. In fact all she did was file papers whenever they needed it.

And she probably misfiled them too. Didn't Carol Burnett base her character Mrs. Wiggins on Diana Ross' tenure as a Motown Secretary?

[marv2]

Are you serious ?
That's your response ?
You are only yung once but you can be immature forever.

Very serious. You are only born once, but you can be stupid forever.....

[marv2]

And she probably misfiled them too. Didn't Carol Burnett base her character Mrs. Wiggins on Diana Ross' tenure as a Motown Secretary?

I don't know. I enjoyed that character along with Tim Conway's. Diane said that she lacked any real secretarial skills, but she was a good "organizer"....... hehehehehehe!