The Supremes Ed Sullivan May 1967

[floyjoy678]

While I do love this appearance and it being significant that it's one of Florence's last appearances with the group, it does come off as a bit...off.

I remember reading that this appearance was cancelled at one point I'm assuming either because of what was happening with Flo or because they couldn't get Cindy out of her contract. Was Cindy originally supposed to appear?

It's clear to me that Flo was brought in for this at the last minute. She doesn't know the words for the Millie/Rose/Mame segment and I don't really hear her vocal on there either. She also just barely knows the choreography.

And then when they do the Happening, the staging was always odd to me that they had Mary out in front. I do hear Flo singing there but again it seems like she is trying to keep up with the other two during it.

[sup_fan]

i've not heard that this performance was ever cancelled or had been attempted to be cancelled. Also i hear M and F pretty clearly in the Millie/Rose/Mame medley. yes they're absolutely lip syncing and yes flo is pretty weak at that. she also goofs up the little turn/kick routine just before the exit the platform and finish up the song. I do think she comes across as quite engaged and all - if you didn't know the back story, you probably wouldn't guess that there was turmoil in the group

the question i really have is "was this REALLY a probationary period for Flo?" they'd had that infamous meeting at Berry's house where it was decided Flo would no longer be a supreme. then the story goes that it was harder to break Cindy's contract with the Bluebelles and since she couldn't make some of these tv shows and concerts, they had to ask Flo back. so once Cindy WAS available would flo just have been sent home? what if the drunk on stage issue never happened in Vegas? was if Flo kept it together? would cindy never have joined but they got through the trouble of breaking her contract? so now what does she do cuz you know Patti and the girls aren't just gonna take her back.

[RanRan79]

the question i really have is "was this REALLY a probationary period for Flo?" they'd had that infamous meeting at Berry's house where it was decided Flo would no longer be a supreme. then the story goes that it was harder to break Cindy's contract with the Bluebelles and since she couldn't make some of these tv shows and concerts, they had to ask Flo back. so once Cindy WAS available would flo just have been sent home? what if the drunk on stage issue never happened in Vegas? was if Flo kept it together? would cindy never have joined but they got through the trouble of breaking her contract? so now what does she do cuz you know Patti and the girls aren't just gonna take her back.

I think it was really a probationary period. Gordy never wanted to fire Florence if he didn't have to. I suspect that even in April, the initial firing wasn't serious. The thought is that Cindy was in but then out because of her contract situation. I call bull. Gordy had been a music businessman for nearly a decade. He knew Cindy was a Bluebelle and only an idiot in the business would not have known that the group was under contract to Atlantic Records. Before Cindy could be a Supreme, Gordy would have worked all of that out because he understood the legal ramifications, just like he would had any of his female group members suddenly up and joined another group at another label.

I suspect Cindy was always being groomed as Flo's stand in. Gordy figured if Flo got it together, great. No need to rock the boat. If she messed up again, cool, because there's someone willing to step right in. I also think Gordy was smart enough to know that Flo wasn't going to be on her best behavior, especially when the name changed to DRATS. All he had to do was sit back and wait, and of course Flo did what he thought she would do, thus making his contingency plan worth it.

Now had Flo come back and miraculously sucked up all her resentments- like Mary did- and played her position, thusly leaving Cindy without a group, I suspect she would have probably ended up a replacement for Betty in the Vandellas, or Gladys in the Marvelettes.

Wow, did all three of the big three female groups at Motown undergo significant membership changes in 1967?

[RanRan79]

It's been a long time since I've watched either of those performances, but I don't recall ever thinking anything was "off". To the contrary, despite all the behind the scenes stuff, the group seems to always hit the stage- in concert or on TV- with ease, leaving everything else backstage.

Flo's choreography has always been a bit clunky and awkward. Perhaps she would have gotten better with time, but it makes me wonder how well she would have handled the Fats Waller medley or the other more intricate dance routines DRATS ended up doing.

I've always thought the staging for "The Happening" was weird. Mary looks awkward out front doing backing vocals. I remember the first time I saw it, I figured that the girls were going to rotate positions. I don't know whose idea this was. Lol

[floyjoy678]

They did Ran. Betty was fired weeks after Flo was in July. I always wondered if Martha was like well if they can get rid of Flo then I can get rid of Betty.

I also listened to the Copa 67 concert this morning for the first time in a while and Flo was still much a intregal part of the act. She pretty much gets a standing ovation for her "Fat is where it's at line" with a bunch of "Bravo!"s and "Go Flo!"s from the audience. I wonder if Gordy was sitting there shitting himself.

[RanRan79]

They did Ran. Betty was fired weeks after Flo was in July. I always wondered if Martha was like well if they can get rid of Flo then I can get rid of Betty.

I also listened to the Copa 67 concert this morning for the first time in a while and Flo was still much a intregal part of the act. She pretty much gets a standing ovation for her "Fat is where it's at line" with a bunch of "Bravo!"s and "Go Flo!"s from the audience. I wonder if Gordy was sitting there shitting himself.

Not only that, but Flo was recording with the group as late as June and she was a part of professional photo shoots right up to the day or so before her firing. It would seem strange to have her be a part of those things if the plan was for her to bounce. I don't think it took months to work out Cindy's contract issue, so why wasn't she recording with the group before Flo's firing? Why wasn't she in the photo shoot? Why wasn't Flo fired as soon as Cindy's contract was taken care of? I believe the answers to those questions are that Flo was considered to be a Supreme for the long haul, even at that late stage of the game...unless she screwed up, which she did, and she was out, and Cindy was in.

[Ollie9]

Not only that, but Flo was recording with the group as late as June and she was a part of professional photo shoots right up to the day or so before her firing. It would seem strange to have her be a part of those things if the plan was for her to bounce. I don't think it took months to work out Cindy's contract issue, so why wasn't she recording with the group before Flo's firing? Why wasn't she in the photo shoot? Why wasn't Flo fired as soon as Cindy's contract was taken care of? I believe the answers to those questions are that Flo was considered to be a Supreme for the long haul, even at that late stage of the game...unless she screwed up, which she did, and she was out, and Cindy was in.

Im guessing Gordy had a huge change of heart after he and Flo had a heated exchange regarding the marquee advertising Diana Ross & The Supremes. It’s reported he was quite upset, realising Flo was never going to readily accept the role of decorative prop for the groups leading lady.
Thats probably how Cindy’s outfit ended up in her dressing room that fateful night. One small push was all it took.

[sup_fan]

Im guessing Gordy had a huge change of heart after he and Flo had a heated exchange regarding the marquee advertising Diana Ross & The Supremes. It’s reported he was quite upset, realising Flo was never going to readily accept the role of decorative prop for the groups leading lady.
Thats probably how Cindy’s outfit ended up in her dressing room that fateful night. One small push was all it took.

there's all sorts of conflicting info about the name change, when it occurred, reactions to it, etc.

Supposedly Gordy informed M, D and F at the April meeting about the name change, so it was no longer a secret.

but there are pictures of the marquee at the Steel Pier as "the Supremes with Diana Ross" and SUPPOSEDLY this was the first marquee with the name change.

then there are books that claim halfway through the Vega gig, the name was changed

and of course we can't leave out Tonita Turner's story of flo casually sitting in her dressing room filing her nails when the radio comes on and the dj announces the new single by DRATS as Reflections and starts to play it, causing her to flip her wig lol

In Randy's last book the whole "confrontation" between F and B about "i'll be Diane just loves that marquee..." is omitted. and this time the ignition point for her going on stage drunk was the fact that a tuxedo costume had been made [[and labeled) especially for Cindy

[Ollie9]

there's all sorts of conflicting info about the name change, when it occurred, reactions to it, etc.

Supposedly Gordy informed M, D and F at the April meeting about the name change, so it was no longer a secret.

but there are pictures of the marquee at the Steel Pier as "the Supremes with Diana Ross" and SUPPOSEDLY this was the first marquee with the name change.

then there are books that claim halfway through the Vega gig, the name was changed

and of course we can't leave out Tonita Turner's story of flo casually sitting in her dressing room filing her nails when the radio comes on and the dj announces the new single by DRATS as Reflections and starts to play it, causing her to flip her wig lol

In Randy's last book the whole "confrontation" between F and B about "i'll be Diane just loves that marquee..." is omitted. and this time the ignition point for her going on stage drunk was the fact that a tuxedo costume had been made [[and labeled) especially for Cindy

Something certainly managed to get Flo’s blood boiling that final night.
The additional tuxedo makes perfect sense, as she had apparently appeared in a happy mood prior to her entering the dressing room and must have known about the name change at that point.
I’m guessing BG had decided enough was enough.

[RanRan79]

Im guessing Gordy had a huge change of heart after he and Flo had a heated exchange regarding the marquee advertising Diana Ross & The Supremes. It’s reported he was quite upset, realising Flo was never going to readily accept the role of decorative prop for the groups leading lady.
Thats probably how Cindy’s outfit ended up in her dressing room that fateful night. One small push was all it took.

I still don't believe the "Cindy Outfit" story. Flo doesn't mention it in her account of that night and I think Dreamgirls fueled someone else's account of what happened.

I think Flo had a bit too much to drink and did the unthinkable: went onstage in an unprofessional manner. Honestly, any boss, not just Gordy, would have probably lost it over that and sent her packing.

[Ollie9]

I still don't believe the "Cindy Outfit" story. Flo doesn't mention it in her account of that night and I think Dreamgirls fueled someone else's account of what happened.

I think Flo had a bit too much to drink and did the unthinkable: went onstage in an unprofessional manner. Honestly, any boss, not just Gordy, would have probably lost it over that and sent her packing.

There really was no special reason for Flo to do what she did that particular night. In the PJ book she says that she was worried not knowing if she was in or out of the group, and they had just spent a happy evening celebrating her birthday. Why would she out of nowhere choose to go to those extremes?.
Something happened, that’s for sure.

[jobeterob]

I always thought this was one of their best and most interesting appearances - from a fans perspective.

As far as the public is concerned, this is probably superfluous fluff they would skip over.

I’ve always heard Flo in this - I thought this was some of their best harmonizing but I always noticed that Flo screwed up some of the choreography

I was always so happy to see this

[sup_fan]

staging - so a lot have brought up the odd camera angle with Mary in front. i have to say i kind of like it. yes mary was forward of the group. but i'm guessing the 3 were all staggered. i don't think F and D were in a line in the back. it allowed for more varieties of shots and combinations of shots - group, F &M, D & M, D and F, etc.

if you look closely, one of the cameras was accidentally in frame. around 0:36 or so the main center camera actually zooms in, as the other camera was to the left and in frame

[sup_fan]

while i know not everyone is super into the gowns, i have to say i was glad when the girls moved out of their "chiffon" phase lol. seems like late 66 and into 67 was all about wide flowing chiffon gowns

these yellow ones
the white ones on cover of Sing Motown
the pink ones from My Fav Things
the other pink ones from the desert photo shoot in Vegas
the white and blue ones with the daisies on them, part of the DMC Funny Girl shoot
the lavender ones from the DMF photo shoot
the bubble gum pink ones with colorful sleeves from the Funny Girl shoot

it's not that the gowns are unattractive. although i do think they made Flo looked larger than she was. especially with the empire waist. given her larger bust and diana's rail-thin frame, the dresses looked more like a tent on flo.

[Boogiedown]

after Ed fails in an attempt to remember who he is introducing , what word does he mumble after he says "the girls" ??

[sup_fan]

after Ed fails in an attempt to remember who he is introducing , what word does he mumble after he says "the girls" ??

i think he said "the girls... here"

[Boogiedown]

i think he said "the girls... here"

Hmmmm its something that ends in a long juicy 'SHSSSSS'

here ssszzz?

[reese]

Hmmmm its something that ends in a long juicy 'SSSSSS'

After Ed says "The girls, here," it sounds like he might have remembered the Supremes' name and started to say it.

[Boogiedown]

After Ed says "The girls, here," it sounds like he might have remembered the Supremes' name and started to say it.

Yes he says here, SSSSSuuu ......then more mumbled words to the effect of ....oh hell with it

I think Ed felt bad, he sure jumped in with a resounding YAAA! right at the end to compensate

[Boogiedown]

This is Ross at her best ....handling the highest degree of mangled phrasing.... and this song is a mouthful!!!

but what in the world is the line @ 2:03

sure don't recall that in the song before [??]

[floyjoy678]

Are there any article reviews from the Flamingo engagement that says they were called Diana Ross and the Supremes? Or is there a picture of the marquee showing the name change? I remember see a picture of it but I can't remember what they were billed as.

There is an interview with Flo in a magazine [[Jet maybe?) in '68 or '69 where she says she never performed with the group as Diana Ross and the Supremes.

[sup_fan]

Are there any article reviews from the Flamingo engagement that says they were called Diana Ross and the Supremes? Or is there a picture of the marquee showing the name change? I remember see a picture of it but I can't remember what they were billed as.

There is an interview with Flo in a magazine [[Jet maybe?) in '68 or '69 where she says she never performed with the group as Diana Ross and the Supremes.

i've seen pics of the Flamingo marquee as "The Supremes" but never DRATS. the girls only did the two gigs at the F before moving to the Frontier hotel property. and i don't know if the Flamingo marquee was from Sept 66 or July 67

[RanRan79]

Are there any article reviews from the Flamingo engagement that says they were called Diana Ross and the Supremes? Or is there a picture of the marquee showing the name change? I remember see a picture of it but I can't remember what they were billed as.

There is an interview with Flo in a magazine [[Jet maybe?) in '68 or '69 where she says she never performed with the group as Diana Ross and the Supremes.

I thought there was a photo of the marquee billing them as The Supremes and Diana Ross, or The Supremes With Diana Ross. Sup mentions the Steel Pier, but I was almost certain that this was for the Flamingo.

I recall in Ebony that Florence said if she ever went back to the group the name would have to be changed. I'm guessing no matter what, Florence leaving the Supremes was inevitable. She was unwilling to play a Supreme to Diane's Diana Ross. Lol Honestly, I don't blame her.

[Boogiedown]

speaking of outfits, those worn for Ed Sullivan sure weren't flattering. Both Mary and Flo look mother-to-be. I wonder if part of the staging was because when side-by-side those dresses made Flo look really huge when next to Mary.

[sup_fan]

speaking of outfits, those worn for Ed Sullivan sure weren't flattering. Both Mary and Flo look mother-to-be. I wonder if part of the staging was because when side-by-side those dresses made Flo look really huge when next to Mary.

any dress with an empire waistline is going to increase the visual size of the wearer's frame. you can try to reduce SOME of this issue by keeping the rest of the gown very streamline. but anyone with a more curvaceous figure is going to struggle with a empire waist gown. Diana was something like a size 3 or 0 or some rail thin size. plus she was flat as a board and had no curves or butt. so the gown hung straight down on her. mary was a larger size but not big by any means. yet these tent-like gowns definitely made her look bigger too. Flo looks massive because they are using about 40,000 yards of material. not because she was so fat they needed to be getting her fabric at Georgia Tent and Awning but because she was a larger frame with a much bigger bust and so this long flowing gown just required a lot of fabric.

Flo looked amazing at the exact same period of time in the white sequins with the gold diagonal stripe. the more form fitting gowns were much more flattering to her body type

[Boogiedown]

any dress with an empire waistline is going to increase the visual size of the wearer's frame. you can try to reduce SOME of this issue by keeping the rest of the gown very streamline. but anyone with a more curvaceous figure is going to struggle with a empire waist gown. Diana was something like a size 3 or 0 or some rail thin size. plus she was flat as a board and had no curves or butt. so the gown hung straight down on her. mary was a larger size but not big by any means. yet these tent-like gowns definitely made her look bigger too. Flo looks massive because they are using about 40,000 yards of material. not because she was so fat they needed to be getting her fabric at Georgia Tent and Awning but because she was a larger frame with a much bigger bust and so this long flowing gown just required a lot of fabric.

Flo looked amazing at the exact same period of time in the white sequins with the gold diagonal stripe. the more form fitting gowns were much more flattering to her body type

Hee haw!^
They sure kept away from full visuals once the segment got going. I'm thinking if the superman cape part of the dress were a different color that might've helped. Also the camera angle should've been raised so that its not belly level.

Yes in the second segment for Auntie Mame ...Flo looks GREAT.

[sup_fan]

Hee haw!^
They sure kept away from full visuals once the segment got going. I'm thinking if the superman cape part of the dress were a different color that might've helped. Also the camera angle should've been raised so that its not belly level.

Yes in the second segment for Auntie Mame ...Flo looks GREAT.

HA! the Superman cape! lol

there's that old story of another fight between the Marvelettes and Sups. when Gladys said the Sups gowns looked like nightgowns. but when confronted by Diana who was pissed, Gladys cleared it up saying "no i didn't say THEIR gowns look like nightgowns. i said YOUR gown."

not sure what of their earlier gowns had that appearance lol but by 1967 the girls were definitely in full nightgown and peignoir chic lol.

[RanRan79]

Sup what the heck is going on in that pic? Lol

[sup_fan]

Sup what the heck is going on in that pic? Lol

it's a scene from Glee where the kids were drunk for a school assembly and one of the characters barfs all over the Rachel character [[who was also the most annoying and hideous of characters lol). I love it that this grey liquid even gets in Rachel's mouth lol

Imagine Flo doing the Fat Is Where It's At line and then barfing! lol

[Boogiedown]

Watching these clips, Flo to me projects a sense of calm amongst the three. She offers a normalcy, a nice counter balance to Diana's over the top visuals. If they were all hamming it up like Diana they would be downright cartoonish.

She's Lucy Ricardo's Ethel Mertz.

[sup_fan]

Watching these clips, Flo to me projects a sense of calm amongst the three. She offers a normalcy, a nice counter balance to Diana's over the top visuals. If they were all hamming it up like Diana they would be downright cartoonish.

She's Lucy Ricardo's Ethel Mertz.

the 3 personalities really worked magic together. Diana was flamboyant. Mary really was the sexy one with her $10,000,000 smile and looks. Flo was the earthy Pearl Bailey one. and they successfully worked that into the skits too. Diana's cartoonish "thin is in" was perfectly cut down to size by Flo's droll and dry "fat is where it's at" line. As a trio, they really did complement each other so very well.

or as mary stated, their three different personalities came together to form this 1 perfect woman.

[Boogiedown]

the 3 personalities really worked magic together. Diana was flamboyant. Mary really was the sexy one with her $10,000,000 smile and looks. Flo was the earthy Pearl Bailey one. and they successfully worked that into the skits too. Diana's cartoonish "thin is in" was perfectly cut down to size by Flo's droll and dry "fat is where it's at" line. As a trio, they really did complement each other so very well.

or as mary stated, their three different personalities came together to form this 1 perfect woman.

well said.

And conversely Diana's flamboyancy was necessary in the mix . If they were all like Flo [or Mary] , they would've come off very dull.

[sup_fan]

well said.

And conversely Diana's flamboyancy was necessary in the mix . If they were all like Flo [or Mary] , they would've come off very dull.

i would imagine at someplace like the Copa, it must have been amazing to see the group. especially as time went on. the 65 Copa show was great but when we listen to the 66 Roostertail or the 67 Copa, you hear how they'd grown and evolved as performers. in another thread I stated that in 65 the girls were still young and came across sort of as playing dress up. they were happy and pretty and all but sort of came across as tryin to be older. but by later 66 and 67, they were matured women and they owned their look and success.

[sup_fan]

it's also interesting to wonder what the DRATS years might have been like with Flo still part of the group. clearly motown management understood flo's appeal. they were still giving her these comedy lines in the act. i don't buy for a minute that these funny comments were ad libbed on the spot at the Copa. first of all, Flo does a slightly different routine on the unreleased You're Nobody that the group performed on the Live in Paris lp. so it was already there. it's very possible Flo ad libbed the comments during a rehearsal and everyone was like "yes!! that would really make this routine stand out" and its possible for the Copa they had initially wanted to cut those lines to make it more "proper" or something.

but the comedy act grew over the years. there were the bits in Queen of the House, you're Nobody, the group intros.

Berry and team understood that in The Sups, the 3 personalities were the magic, with Diana being the centerpiece. i wonder if when they moved to DRATS and the group didn't totally collapse and they'd replaced Flo, if Berry was like "ok we can go full throttle with focusing on Diana" whereas if it was still DMF under the DRATS banner, maybe they'd still give SOME room for M and F. heck Mary took over some of the Flo comedy lines after the change so it's not that they were totally cut out of the act

[reese]

...heck Mary took over some of the Flo comedy lines after the change so it's not that they were totally cut out of the act

Did Mary take over any of Flo's lines other than "Honey, we is terrific"? Even as late as 1969, Cindy was doing Flo's "Fat is where it's at" line.

[marybrewster]

i've not heard that this performance was ever cancelled or had been attempted to be cancelled. Also i hear M and F pretty clearly in the Millie/Rose/Mame medley. yes they're absolutely lip syncing and yes flo is pretty weak at that. she also goofs up the little turn/kick routine just before the exit the platform and finish up the song. I do think she comes across as quite engaged and all - if you didn't know the back story, you probably wouldn't guess that there was turmoil in the group

the question i really have is "was this REALLY a probationary period for Flo?" they'd had that infamous meeting at Berry's house where it was decided Flo would no longer be a supreme. then the story goes that it was harder to break Cindy's contract with the Bluebelles and since she couldn't make some of these tv shows and concerts, they had to ask Flo back. so once Cindy WAS available would flo just have been sent home? what if the drunk on stage issue never happened in Vegas? was if Flo kept it together? would cindy never have joined but they got through the trouble of breaking her contract? so now what does she do cuz you know Patti and the girls aren't just gonna take her back.

I still wonder about this "they had to ask Flo back".

I tend to think that if Berry "fired" Flo, then suddenly Cindy wasn't available, that Flo would tell BG to go F himself and the Supremes.

[floyjoy678]

I still wonder about this "they had to ask Flo back".

I tend to think that if Berry "fired" Flo, then suddenly Cindy wasn't available, that Flo would tell BG to go F himself and the Supremes.

I wonder if they had a hard time getting Flo out of her Copa contract and that was presented to her. "If you break your contract with Jules Podell, he'll put cement on your feet."

[milven]

I wonder if they had a hard time getting Flo out of her Copa contract and that was presented to her. "If you break your contract with Jules Podell, he'll put cement on your feet."

The story goes that Berry Gordy wanted to present the Supremes at the Copacabana without Florence Ballard. But Jules Podell, the owner of the Copa, insisted that the original lineup perform. He believed that having all three original Supremes would attract a larger crowd. He thought that fans would notice the replacement and might be less likely to purchase tickets if Flo was absent.

There are a few stories about this 1967 event. I guess we can pick any one of them. To me, this is the one I believe. Most people did not mess with Jules

[sup_fan]

The story goes that Berry Gordy wanted to present the Supremes at the Copacabana without Florence Ballard. But Jules Podell, the owner of the Copa, insisted that the original lineup perform. He believed that having all three original Supremes would attract a larger crowd. He thought that fans would notice the replacement and might be less likely to purchase tickets if Flo was absent.

There are a few stories about this 1967 event. I guess we can pick any one of them. To me, this is the one I believe. Most people did not mess with Jules

i believe that story is in reference to the winter 66 performance there.

to some degree, i get it. I don't think Podell really cared all that much about Flo. it was more about inconsistencies in the group lineup. if they're constantly bringing in subs, something is wrong with the group and people will be less likely to want to see them. If the group membership is A, B and C, that's who podell wants. not some random singer in lieu of C. Podell didn't apparently care when Cindy was an OFFICIAL supreme and Flo was gone.

[marybrewster]

Did Mary take over any of Flo's lines other than "Honey, we is terrific"? Even as late as 1969, Cindy was doing Flo's "Fat is where it's at" line.

Which, God bless Cindy, was delivered flatter than a pancake.

[sup_fan]

Which, God bless Cindy, was delivered flatter than a pancake.

you'd think they could have spent the 5 mins in trying to come up with some NEW stage patter. this sassy Pearl Bailey persona just wasn't Cindy

[marybrewster]

you'd think they could have spent the 5 mins in trying to come up with some NEW stage patter. this sassy Pearl Bailey persona just wasn't Cindy

Not to mention that "Nobody" probably should have been retired by 1967/1968/1969. It had been in the act since 1965 [[?); that and some of the MOR tunes [[like MORE) should have been updated with the new group/look.

[sup_fan]

Not to mention that "Nobody" probably should have been retired by 1967/1968/1969. It had been in the act since 1965 [[?); that and some of the MOR tunes [[like MORE) should have been updated with the new group/look.

i think they mostly kept that in for sentimental reasons. that was one of their first "blockbuster" MOR songs. and sort of their signature tune. most of the other MOR stuff cycled in and out. except Somewhere.

i do TOTALLY agree none of the DRATS material should have been unearthed for their 1972 and 73 shows!

[floyjoy678]

Flo and Mary's account is Flo went on stage drunk and stuck her stomach out. This infuriated Gordy. He told her either that night or the next morning she was fired. Flo was told by Gwen Gordy to stay and fight for her place because she still had a contract. But Flo had enough and left.

It sounds like she was tired and gave up. All the other things [[the fourth tuxedo, the fight in the dressing room afterwards, etc) are all speculation.

[floyjoy678]

So is there a possibility now that the group never was billed as Diana Ross and the Supremes until well after Florence officially left?

I don't buy that the name change set her off during that engagement. It's been said that they all knew the name change was coming.

[bradsupremes]

So is there a possibility now that the group never was billed as Diana Ross and the Supremes until well after Florence officially left?

I don't buy that the name change set her off during that engagement. It's been said that they all knew the name change was coming.

Correct. They were still billed as "The Supremes" when Florence was fired. When Mary passed away, Vintage Las Vegas on Twitter posted the photo below of the Flamingo marquee dated July 1967.

So for a brief few weeks, Cindy was a member when they were still "The Supremes." Over the course of the summer, they would be billed a few different ways at various venues as the name change hadn't caught on or their contracts for venue appearances were signed before the name change.

[milven]

Before the name changed officially, there was a billboard in front of a Vegas casino or hotel that said "THE SUPREMES featuring Diana Ross". Cant find it now, but picture was either in a book or on line, so yes, the name change was probably no surprise to anyone

[floyjoy678]

Milven I actually just did a search and found a picture of the marquee for the 1967 appearance and it looks like they were still being billed as The Supremes.

I've seen pictures of them being billed as The Supremes with Diana Ross in AC. Is that what you're thinking of?

So it looks like the official name change didn't happen until Reflections was released.

[sup_fan]

Milven I actually just did a search and found a picture of the marquee for the 1967 appearance and it looks like they were still being billed as The Supremes.

I've seen pictures of them being billed as The Supremes with Diana Ross in AC. Is that what you're thinking of?

So it looks like the official name change didn't happen until Reflections was released.

yes - i believe Randy had a pic in his last Diana book and it was at the Steel Pier. he also mentioned that Gordy wasn't 100% of exactly how they wanted the billing to read. until they eventually settled on DRATS

this doesn't necessary mean that AC appearance was the FIRST time the marquee read that. it's possible during the Vegas run that the marquee was updated. i'm not sure

[Ollie9]

The billing of the Supremes as with Diana Ross is when Cindy first joined the group and the company were still undecided about how to present Diana’s name.
I have never seen proof that there was not some kind of name change on the night Flo stuck her stomach out.