The Making Of Motown 25

[sup_fan]

You're expecting Mary to write a minute-by-minute, blow-by-blow in her book? She was there, she's not a fan watching a video clip on an endless loop. There's nothing in her account that's wildly or even mildly inconsistent with that.

the motown 25 reunion wasn't simply a 2-sentence passage in mary's book. it was a full section and she did go into pretty lengthy detail about the events. Also i've clearly stated that i'm not privy to any info that the rest of us haven't received. i'm just speculating on the situation. based on what i've observed and gathered, i do not believe mary was simply an innocent victim of the whole evening, someone just there excited to reunite with her sister supremes. mary had an agenda, perhaps a justified one, but she clearly had some specific views on how the evening should unfold. even if she didn't necessarily pre-meditate "i'm going to steal the song from diana" i think she was approaching the event with a combative approach to the whole situation.

and part of that is quite understandable - she had been embroiled in legal battles with motown and berry for years at this point. and now they're just saying "hey girl - put all of that aside and come celebrate the glory of motown and berry" So i'm not saying there isn't context for why mary might have felt this way or reasons for her actions. but people seem to immediately point out that Diana was at fault for this travesty of a reunion. and she absolutely played a significant part in the problem and she greatly contributed to robbing the fans of something they were so dearly hoping for - a brief moment when their 3 supremes were together again.

but diana was not alone in the problems here

[marybrewster]

another thing about the reunion - does anyone know if Diana EVER sang Someday at all as a soloist? other than an instrumental inclusion on the Evening With album and set, i'm not aware of it. i don't believe it was part of her initial solo shows, was it? i know there was the Sups medley but i thought that was it. and in all of the bootleg live shows i've heard, never once is Someday part of the list.

again, total speculation here. but perhaps this song is really, really steeped in painful memories for her. too many people just assume Diana was elated to leave the sups in the dust and go be a mega star. and that she has no feelings about the group or the women. but i don't believe that. i wonder if the culmination of all of the pain and anguish within the group is sort of represented to her by this song?

Which would have made sense to do the medley, leading up to "Someday".

[marybrewster]

"and now they're just saying "hey girl - put all of that aside and come celebrate the glory of motown and berry"

Kind of like, "just show up and sing" in 2000.

[sup_fan]

Which would have made sense to do the medley, leading up to "Someday".

or did she have reservations about doing Someday at all? is the song simply tied to too many dark memories and perhaps when she was told they would be doing Someday, she was like "christ..."

[Ollie9]

I think we can all agree that Diana wasn’t exactly overjoyed about appearing that night. It’s just a huge shame that she couldn’t have conducted herself with a little more class and dignity and been the professional she was meant to be.

[marybrewster]

or did she have reservations about doing Someday at all? is the song simply tied to too many dark memories and perhaps when she was told they would be doing Someday, she was like "christ..."

Lol, that's likely more the story.

M25 was likely the 1st and last time she'd been a room with Martha, Claudette, the 4T, Temptations, and Mary Wells since "the old days". You got Diana who'd just inked a million[[s) dollar deal with RCA, and you got Cindy Birdsong in a borrowed evening gown and James Jamerson in the nosebleeds with a ticket he purchased outside the venue. I'm sure tensions were high.

[daviddh]

Agree with earlier statement.
If Diana wanted to soften the blow from M25 ,I also would have invited them to do Central park with her and had a Supremes set there
It would have been an event!
That said, I also watched the behind scene footage of Central Park,... Diana having a fit with the producer/ director on where the cameras where.
He stated she broke down in tears to get her way but he would not budge.
Maybe how men deal with DR is different then how women do...
Not sure. It sounds sexist to say it, but she can be difficult.
Another behind the scenes show of her at Divas 2000 was not as nice and a producer stated he was glad it was over..
Yet it was the most successful Divas.
Not sure why it's all her way or no way

[Ollie9]

Agree with earlier statement.
If Diana wanted to soften the blow from M25 ,I also would have invited them to do Central park with her and had a Supremes set there
It would have been an event!
That said, I also watched the behind scene footage of Central Park,... Diana having a fit with the producer/ director on where the cameras where.
He stated she broke down in tears to get her way but he would not budge.
Maybe how men deal with DR is different then how women do...
Not sure. It sounds sexist to say it, but she can be difficult.
Another behind the scenes show of her at Divas 2000 was not as nice and a producer stated he was glad it was over..
Yet it was the most successful Divas.
Not sure why it's all her way or no way

It might have been fantastic, but extremely unlikely Diana would have been prepared to share the spotlight at such a high profile, once in a lifetime event as Central Park.

[marybrewster]

Agree with earlier statement.
If Diana wanted to soften the blow from M25 ,I also would have invited them to do Central park with her and had a Supremes set there
It would have been an event!
That said, I also watched the behind scene footage of Central Park,... Diana having a fit with the producer/ director on where the cameras where.
He stated she broke down in tears to get her way but he would not budge.
Maybe how men deal with DR is different then how women do...
Not sure. It sounds sexist to say it, but she can be difficult.
Another behind the scenes show of her at Divas 2000 was not as nice and a producer stated he was glad it was over..
Yet it was the most successful Divas.
Not sure why it's all her way or no way

Years ago I saw a featurette on the "making" of Divas Live, Diana Ross. It was truly eye opening. I wish it were still on YouTube.

[Ollie9]

Years ago I saw a featurette on the "making" of Divas Live, Diana Ross. It was truly eye opening. I wish it were still on YouTube.

Is that the one where she brought in pastries for the entire crew and conducted a singalong?. Perhaps I’m confusing it with something else.

[jim aka jtigre99]

The relationship between Diana and all of her former singing partners was somewhat tense. Once Florence left, they weren't exactly chitchatting like besties. She certainly liked Cindy well enough and wrote she was a pleasant girl eager to please but even in her Oprah interview said she was a Supreme but not really a Supreme [[Ouch!). Mary and Diana ran hot and cold throughout the years. Once Flo was ousted, I think that caused a strain between them until Diana left the group. Once Diana was a solo and Mary still working to keep the group together, I am sure their lives were going in different directions. Still, Diana was Godmother to Turkessa and saw Mary's solo debut in 1979. Mary went to Diana for a loan in 1981 when her marriage fell apart. So, Motown 25 was only 2 years later. They may not have been on the best of terms but it certainly seems they had a relationship.
On the night of the show, Diana was apparently wrestling more with appearing since she left to go to RCA after her long history with Motown and Berry. I am sure she wanted to celebrate it in her heart but wrestled with the emotions of moving on to start anew independently. That was probably bigger in her mind than a Supremes reunion. I think in her mind she was 13 years beyond all of that. The fact that she did not rehearse with Cindy and Mary or perhaps didn't even personally get in touch with them to discuss the reunion beforehand speaks volumes.
Diana did behave very badly in front of a studio audience, touching a fellow performer for whatever reason and however lightly was simply uncalled for. Mary behaved badly by rewriting her script. She also wore red when it was agreed they would wear shades of black, silver and white. She wore black for her script but changed to red for the reunion. Stepping to be side by side with Diana and singing softly so their mics were not turned down so low that they were inaudible is not what I would call bad behavior, especially if the rehearsal was so slipshod on Motown's part. Mary picking up when Diana stopped singing was not malicious either as I am glad people noticed Mary gesture to Diana to pick up the lead again. Still, once Smokey came out Diana went into the mode of doing what she was asked-to recite the names of the other artists to join them onstage.
I don't think the animosity is what fans make it out to be. But also, they never really communicated properly. From when they were in the group to Motown 25 to RTL. I also think Diana had all of those years being told what to do, she was at the point where she wanted control of her own career. Mary was in litigation with Motown, they were told they could not visit any of the big stars and they had Mary Wells sharing the dressing room with Cindy instead of Mary. Those kind of indignities would make anyone a bit infuriated with Motown 25.

[sup_fan]

Randy and others have written about how frankly the girls were more supportive of and friendly with one another AFTER the split in 1970. during the DRATS years, they were all under so much pressure and sometimes you snap or are mean to people who happen to be near you rather than focusing on the true source of the problem. but once apart, it seems the girls did value and support one another. diana was very supportive of the Jean-led supremes, was always deferential to mary as the "leader", she really wanted the best for them. and mary has said she was very supportive and proud of diana, with the movies and all

and we've heard about diana's efforts to help flo and that supposed last phone discussion the two had, i believe in 75.

[Ollie9]

The relationship between Diana and all of her former singing partners was somewhat tense. Once Florence left, they weren't exactly chitchatting like besties. She certainly liked Cindy well enough and wrote she was a pleasant girl eager to please but even in her Oprah interview said she was a Supreme but not really a Supreme [[Ouch!). Mary and Diana ran hot and cold throughout the years. Once Flo was ousted, I think that caused a strain between them until Diana left the group. Once Diana was a solo and Mary still working to keep the group together, I am sure their lives were going in different directions. Still, Diana was Godmother to Turkessa and saw Mary's solo debut in 1979. Mary went to Diana for a loan in 1981 when her marriage fell apart. So, Motown 25 was only 2 years later. They may not have been on the best of terms but it certainly seems they had a relationship.
On the night of the show, Diana was apparently wrestling more with appearing since she left to go to RCA after her long history with Motown and Berry. I am sure she wanted to celebrate it in her heart but wrestled with the emotions of moving on to start anew independently. That was probably bigger in her mind than a Supremes reunion. I think in her mind she was 13 years beyond all of that. The fact that she did not rehearse with Cindy and Mary or perhaps didn't even personally get in touch with them to discuss the reunion beforehand speaks volumes.
Diana did behave very badly in front of a studio audience, touching a fellow performer for whatever reason and however lightly was simply uncalled for. Mary behaved badly by rewriting her script. She also wore red when it was agreed they would wear shades of black, silver and white. She wore black for her script but changed to red for the reunion. Stepping to be side by side with Diana and singing softly so their mics were not turned down so low that they were inaudible is not what I would call bad behavior, especially if the rehearsal was so slipshod on Motown's part. Mary picking up when Diana stopped singing was not malicious either as I am glad people noticed Mary gesture to Diana to pick up the lead again. Still, once Smokey came out Diana went into the mode of doing what she was asked-to recite the names of the other artists to join them onstage.
I don't think the animosity is what fans make it out to be. But also, they never really communicated properly. From when they were in the group to Motown 25 to RTL. I also think Diana had all of those years being told what to do, she was at the point where she wanted control of her own career. Mary was in litigation with Motown, they were told they could not visit any of the big stars and they had Mary Wells sharing the dressing room with Cindy instead of Mary. Those kind of indignities would make anyone a bit infuriated with Motown 25.

A discerning appraisal of Motown 25, with lack of communication invariably the culprit.

[RanRan79]

I don't know what their problem was, why it was so hard for them to communicate. IMO, a lot of the issues Diana and Mary had with each other could have been squashed with a simple conversation. Mary has admitted that she often held things in. That depiction of the physical fight she and Diana had in the early days, where after Diana had been pulled off of Mary, she told Mary that she should let her feelings out, is quite telling. Mary wrote that she realized some of Diana's antics were cathartic for Diana. I don't think Diana ever had a problem expressing herself [[rightly or wrongly). Mary seems to always have bottled up her feelings until they all came tumbling out [[rightly or wrongly). So Mary could not or would not speak frankly about how things made her feel, while Diana had no problem speaking frankly.

I suspect Diana didn't have much patience with people who were willing to say to her "I don't like what you said/did when..." So, for instance, when Mary says on a shopping trip with Diana, she told Diana that she felt like this was the closest they had ever been and Diana was offended. Mary just let it go. Why? She could have explained to Diana exactly what she meant by that. Maybe then Diana would have understood the point. On the other hand, Diana could have asked Mary what she meant by that, but she didn't, choosing to be offended instead. Their communication skills sucked.

Even with Motown 25, how did either of them not call the other and say "Okay, what the hell was up with that?" They just "moved" passed it, choosing instead to have lunch together where they clearly didn't talk about the public spectacle that had occurred the year before. And supposedly Mary reached out to Diana when she was writing Dreamgirl to get some recollections, but Diana refused to talk about it, which I'm sure pissed Mary off.

People undervalue the importance of good communication.

[telekin]

I don't know what their problem was, why it was so hard for them to communicate.

This is probably for another thread, but I've been reading a book lately about how our modern society puts such a high value on competition but very little attention on its downsides, particularly on a personal level. As I was reading, I couldn't help but think about the dynamics at Motown, how Berry himself was often competitive to a fault and eagerly cultivated that within the company among his writers, producers and artists. Judging from most of the accounts, Diana, like Berry, was often competitive to a fault as well. I can see where it was a big driver of success at Motown, but also a source of a lot of resentment and bitter feelings so many years later.

[telekin]

the motown 25 reunion wasn't simply a 2-sentence passage in mary's book. it was a full section and she did go into pretty lengthy detail about the events. Also i've clearly stated that i'm not privy to any info that the rest of us haven't received. i'm just speculating on the situation. based on what i've observed and gathered, i do not believe mary was simply an innocent victim of the whole evening, someone just there excited to reunite with her sister supremes. mary had an agenda, perhaps a justified one, but she clearly had some specific views on how the evening should unfold. even if she didn't necessarily pre-meditate "i'm going to steal the song from diana" i think she was approaching the event with a combative approach to the whole situation.

and part of that is quite understandable - she had been embroiled in legal battles with motown and berry for years at this point. and now they're just saying "hey girl - put all of that aside and come celebrate the glory of motown and berry" So i'm not saying there isn't context for why mary might have felt this way or reasons for her actions. but people seem to immediately point out that Diana was at fault for this travesty of a reunion. and she absolutely played a significant part in the problem and she greatly contributed to robbing the fans of something they were so dearly hoping for - a brief moment when their 3 supremes were together again.

but diana was not alone in the problems here

I am not saying that Mary was an innocent victim, and I don't think too many people are. She had her own misgivings about the production, and rightfully so. As she said in her book, she was going to make sure some things were said. However, I do have to push back with the notion, as if to even the score with Diana somehow, that she was "amazingly unprofessional." That's laying things on a little thick, I'd say.

So her red dress was quite a break from protocol, but I think she did the right thing with her speech. I mean, what's more disrespectful? The company asking her to recite a bland PR-vetted speech saluting the Motown family, without even mentioning any of its fallen members by name? God forbid they even touch on anything remotely sad or difficult... Or her going off book for a minute giving name recognition to people like Flo, Paul Williams and Pops Gordy, and injecting a little personal touch from someone who cared? If there was anything disrespectful there, it was the fact that the organizers were willing to go ahead and not even give the smallest token acknowledgement to people like Flo and Paul Williams on a night when "everyone came back."

[floyjoy678]

I've said that about Mary and Diana: piss poor communication.

They never discussed:
Flo leaving the group
Diana leaving the group
Flo's death
Motown 25


Again piss poor communication.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I am not a psychologist but I think Diana and Mary had problems related to their childhood. Mary never spoke up because she was raised by an extremely strict Aunt and then was reclaimed by her Mother. I don't think she spoke up because of those feelings of abandonment as a child. Diana, on the other hand, was always in competition with her siblings for attention. She never seemed to get praise from her Father, even after her successes which was odd as he focused on her sibling. Plus, Mary did state that you couldn't discuss things with Diana as she would take it so personally and feel that she was being attacked.
Perhaps, we just always have those things with us that are instilled in childhood.

[jobeterob]

A fitting end

[thanxal]

A fitting end

HOW CLASSY!!!! I love Scherrie! I love Susaye! C.L.A.S.S.

[marybrewster]

That's really fabtastic. ♡

[jobeterob]

If only they could have been convinced to wear the agreed on clothes, stop screwing around with the mics, stuck to the script, rehearse, and give the girls their own verse to lead - they’d have all come out much further ahead and the fans would have been happy

[Ollie9]

If only they could have been convinced to wear the agreed on clothes, stop screwing around with the mics, stuck to the script, rehearse, and give the girls their own verse to lead - they’d have all come out much further ahead and the fans would have been happy

And most important thing of all, remember not to push and manhandle a fellow female performer in front of an audience. It’s never a good look, being what really caught the media’s attention.

[LoveSupreme]

Regarding this unfortunate incident in Supremes' history all I know is this: Diana and Mary seriously needed to grow up and put their differences aside for the fans and for the legacy of the group. But no, their egos prevailed and de-railed this reunion and 15 years later they still didn't know any better and did it again. Poor Cindy gets caught in the cross-fire of all this and the fans ultimately lose out. I blame both of them.

[woodward]

Regarding this unfortunate incident in Supremes' history all I know is this: Diana and Mary seriously needed to grow up and put their differences aside for the fans and for the legacy of the group. But no, their egos prevailed and de-railed this reunion and 15 years later they still didn't know any better and did it again. Poor Cindy gets caught in the cross-fire of all this and the fans ultimately lose out. I blame both of them.

How about the legacy of Motown? You forgot that as something they should have remembered.

[jobeterob]

Love and Woodward - good posts - I actually think we all agree.

[marybrewster]

What was the supposed dress code for DMC that night? Silver? To match Diana? Isn't Cindy's borrowed evening gown white?

[jim aka jtigre99]

Mary Brewster, I believe it was supposed to be white, black and silver. Cindy was in a white gown, Diana wore the silver top with black dress and Mary had worn a tight black Tony Chase outfit to do her speech and switched into the red outfit for the finale.

[Ollie9]

Fact is, if Diana hadn’t taken it to the next level in getting physical, the media would have been none the wiser apart from thinking the reunion rather short.

[lucky2012]

Regarding this unfortunate incident in Supremes' history all I know is this: Diana and Mary seriously needed to grow up and put their differences aside for the fans and for the legacy of the group. But no, their egos prevailed and de-railed this reunion and 15 years later they still didn't know any better and did it again. Poor Cindy gets caught in the cross-fire of all this and the fans ultimately lose out. I blame both of them.

Truth, LoveSupreme, still, 41 years on.

[jobeterob]

Has anyone ever seen Mary’s speech? Or the black dress?

[bradsupremes]

Has anyone ever seen Mary’s speech? Or the black dress?

Yes, she wore the black dress that she wore on The Black Stage when she performed "You Danced My Heart Around The Stars." Cindy wore a simple black dress too. I always thought the white dress she wore in the finale, which she borrowed from Freda Payne, made her look big. The black dress she wore in the speech moment was more form fitting.

As for the speech, she and Cindy stuck to the script. For a brief moment, I want to say for no more than a minute, Mary broke away to mention the Motown family who had died citing Florence, Paul Williams, and Pops Gordy and wanted to make sure they were remembered. It was brief, but very heartfelt. She didn't go on a tangent like some have made it out to be. If the producers got that upset over her straying off script to honor some of the Motown folks who had died but okay with Diana walking out onstage in the middle of someone else's performance then they are hypocrites. Nearly every awards show people stray from script. It should be mentioned there was no moment in the show that honored the Motown folks who had died so honestly I can't blame Mary for wanting to right their wrong.

[bradsupremes]

What was the supposed dress code for DMC that night? Silver? To match Diana? Isn't Cindy's borrowed evening gown white?

Has anyone ever confirmed where this supposed dress code came from? I've heard it mentioned several times, but no one has ever said who came up with it. Was this something one of the producers said? Or was it something a fan created to sew more contention about the night?

[Boogiedown]

Yes, she wore the black dress that she wore on The Black Stage when she performed "You Danced My Heart Around The Stars." Cindy wore a simple black dress too. I always thought the white dress she wore in the finale, which she borrowed from Freda Payne, made her look big. The black dress she wore in the speech moment was more form fitting.

As for the speech, she and Cindy stuck to the script. For a brief moment, I want to say for no more than a minute, Mary broke away to mention the Motown family who had died citing Florence, Paul Williams, and Pops Gordy and wanted to make sure they were remembered. It was brief, but very heartfelt. She didn't go on a tangent like some have made it out to be. If the producers got that upset over her straying off script to honor some of the Motown folks who had died but okay with Diana walking out onstage in the middle of someone else's performance then they are hypocrites. Nearly every awards show people stray from script. It should be mentioned there was no moment in the show that honored the Motown folks who had died so honestly I can't blame Mary for wanting to right their wrong.

Yes and how especially right for Mary to be the one to remember Florence. [and least of all, Diana [or Berry] who couldn't have cared less who'd been a Supreme or not].

Of all the stories about Motown is this , this phony baloney reunion the most absurd one ....the entire hurried reunion ....but especially the handling of the Supremes part of it ....and then using it as the teaser as the special's highlight.

Diana's bright red tongue was the actual highlight. Could watch that over and over.





from-the-heart, warm and fuzzies.... scripted

[sup_fan]

Has anyone ever confirmed where this supposed dress code came from? I've heard it mentioned several times, but no one has ever said who came up with it. Was this something one of the producers said? Or was it something a fan created to sew more contention about the night?

it certainly couldn't have been for the entire cast for the finale since others were in various outfits. i think most just stayed in the outfits they performed in. so the Jacksons were in all their various colors. wasn't martha in gold?

maybe it was just for the sup segment. most of the male groups that performed were in tuxes, so they matched. of course Debarge and High Inergy weren't in matching outfits since that wasn't their style. so perhaps the idea was to give some degree of a complimentary look to the sups.

[marybrewster]

Has anyone ever confirmed where this supposed dress code came from? I've heard it mentioned several times, but no one has ever said who came up with it. Was this something one of the producers said? Or was it something a fan created to sew more contention about the night?

I've always chalked this up as another Motown Myth. Diana didn't even want to participate, now you're going to tell her what to wear? I could MAYBE see a discussion about filming; what colors look best under the lights? But you literally have a rainbow of ever color under the sun represented on the show. So, no.

I can also see maybe a phone call between Mary and Diana; "hey girl, what are you wearing? Let's coordinate!" But we know that DIDN'T happen. Diana, Mary, and Cindy weren't always even in matching gowns in 1969.

Then you've got Cindy, who had to borrow a dress from Claudette. What if Claudette only had blue or purple? How was that going to work into the white, black, silver theme?

I think Diana, Mary, and Cindy all looked fantastic that night, regardless of the color of their dresses. And don't believe Mary went off-script with her red hot number.

[Boogiedown]

I think Diana, Mary, and Cindy all looked fantastic that night, regardless of the color of their dresses. And don't believe Mary went off-script with her red hot number.

Aha, Mary's famous RED HOT number!!


Do you really think they look fantastic? They look at odds with each other to me.

That Cindy's dress was borrowed at least explains why it has an untailored look in the way it fits. What's the story here? It doesn't occur to Cindy that she'll need a dress to wear??
The three look like they were pulled out of the audience that night to perform arbitrarily together. Far from conveying the Supremes.

[Boogiedown]

added:

just noticing how timidly Diana introduces them and in unison [as Mary and Cindy] ...BUT Mary holds back and makes an entrance on her own.

How much nicer had Diana said, "Ladies and Gentlemen Miss Cindy Birdsong [full name] " and then Cindy enters to her applause
and then Diana says something to the effect, "and, of course, a Supreme from day one, Miss Mary Wilson." ... who enters to her applause

[RanRan79]

This is probably for another thread, but I've been reading a book lately about how our modern society puts such a high value on competition but very little attention on its downsides, particularly on a personal level. As I was reading, I couldn't help but think about the dynamics at Motown, how Berry himself was often competitive to a fault and eagerly cultivated that within the company among his writers, producers and artists. Judging from most of the accounts, Diana, like Berry, was often competitive to a fault as well. I can see where it was a big driver of success at Motown, but also a source of a lot of resentment and bitter feelings so many years later.

Very interesting. I think the competition element wasn't a bad idea, as competition breeds excellence. I'm betting the way Berry pitted some folks against each other, the way he played favorites, etc, certainly was the driving force of any resentment and bitterness.

[RanRan79]

Yeah, I'm not buying the dress code either. It just doesn't make sense. There was no time for a rehearsal, but there was time to coordinate colors?

Where did the information that Cindy's dress was borrowed come from? Seems really strange that she would not have had time to find a beautiful gown- regardless of price- in time for the event. It's not like Motown 25 was a last minute, thrown together thing.

[floyjoy678]

Didn't Cindy say in her interview with Goldmine that Diana helped her out with the dress? Or am I not remembering that right?

[bradsupremes]

This was a time in Cindy's life where she was financially strained so buying a new dress probably wasn't in her expenses. And for a event of this magnitude she probably didn't have something that was good enough for the moment thus why she borrowed the dress from Freda.

[RanRan79]

The failed Supremes reunion will always be a huge shadow over what should have otherwise been a truly historic night. But honestly, I don't think it was the worst tragedy of the show, just one of many.

1)Eddie and David weren't invited is a huge stain. Not only were they integral members of the Tempts, one of the label's biggest acts, their lead vocals were on some of the label's most iconic hits.

2)The Marvelettes not being invited to perform was idiotic. They were responsible for giving Motown their first number one hit. How do you not honor that?

3)The Vandellas not being invited is also weird. I get that Martha was the indisputable focal point of that trio, but the entire time Martha was at Motown, she was part of the ensemble known as Martha [[and later Reeves) and the Vandellas. Annette, Roz and Betty should have been on that stage helping Martha sing the hits.

4)Martha, Mary and Junior Walker being reduced to a snippet of a song is insane. Single for single, only the Supremes and, arguably, the Shirelles had more hit singles of any female group in the 60s. Mary Wells was the priority act for the label for those first few years, and she made good on her potential. How do they not get a medley of songs each? While I dig Junior, I would be okay with him only doing one song, but it should have been the entire song, not a snippet.

5)The Funk Brothers basically ignored was disrespectful, perhaps most of all. Why is James Jamerson, integral to the adored Motown Sound, having to buy a ticket to the show? Why weren't the Funks reunited? Disrespectful as hell.

So for all the gripes we may have about our beloved Supremes reuniting and screwing it up, there were some bigger travesties that evening, which Motown never seemed to attempt to rectify with most subsequent celebrations.

[Boogiedown]

and wasn't Rick James Motown's hottest property at the time?
were they embarrassed by any association??

[telekin]

Has anyone ever confirmed where this supposed dress code came from? I've heard it mentioned several times, but no one has ever said who came up with it. Was this something one of the producers said? Or was it something a fan created to sew more contention about the night?

Good question! I'm trying to remember if it was mentioned in Call Her Miss Ross, which I unfortunately no longer have. Speaking for myself though, perhaps it was an impression that I ran with from comments/recollections made online over the years and a general sense at how Mary stood out [[albeit fabulously!) in her red dress for that segment.

[marybrewster]

Yeah, I'm not buying the dress code either. It just doesn't make sense. There was no time for a rehearsal, but there was time to coordinate colors?

Where did the information that Cindy's dress was borrowed come from? Seems really strange that she would not have had time to find a beautiful gown- regardless of price- in time for the event. It's not like Motown 25 was a last minute, thrown together thing.

I thought it was Claudette that borrowed Cindy the dress. Brad says Freda; I'm guessing he's right.

However: neither Claudette or Freda, at least to me, appear to be the same size as Cindy. Not that Cindy was huge at M25, but.....

[jim aka jtigre99]

Good question! I'm trying to remember if it was mentioned in Call Her Miss Ross, which I unfortunately no longer have. Speaking for myself though, perhaps it was an impression that I ran with from comments/recollections made online over the years and a general sense at how Mary stood out [[albeit fabulously!) in her red dress for that segment.

I looked for Randy and Mary's books to see if there was any mention of coordinating wardrobes for the show and there was absolutely nothing mentioned. I guess it did come from a fan somewhere. I apologize if I continued any misinformation. Mary mentions the black dress and it is the one from her Black Stage performance. She mentions both were designed by Tony Chase. I had read that Freda lent Cindy the dress for the night, I believe on Facebook. Mary stated it was a white silk dress. I remember Mary lent an outfit to Florence's daughter at the R&R Hall of Fame induction when her luggage didn't show up. Another example of kindness like Freda to Cindy. At Motown 25, Mary's outfit did stand out-red against white, black & silver. It was not a floor length gown but a dazzling outfit. Cindy's was more floor length and had a simple elegance. Diana had a sparkly silver top attached to a black short skirt, which didn't seem like what she was wearing performing at that time but her and Michael Jackson seemed to match in theme.

[sup_fan]

Aha, Mary's famous RED HOT number!!


Do you really think they look fantastic? They look at odds with each other to me.

That Cindy's dress was borrowed at least explains why it has an untailored look in the way it fits. What's the story here? It doesn't occur to Cindy that she'll need a dress to wear??
The three look like they were pulled out of the audience that night to perform arbitrarily together. Far from conveying the Supremes.

from what i've heard it was more of a financial issue. Cindy was not very well off and didn't have the resources for a high-end glamorous gown. I doubt very much in her personal life she had a reason for wearing sequins out and about. and she couldn't go onstage in her sunday dress and hat.

[sup_fan]

The failed Supremes reunion will always be a huge shadow over what should have otherwise been a truly historic night. But honestly, I don't think it was the worst tragedy of the show, just one of many.

1)Eddie and David weren't invited is a huge stain. Not only were they integral members of the Tempts, one of the label's biggest acts, their lead vocals were on some of the label's most iconic hits.

2)The Marvelettes not being invited to perform was idiotic. They were responsible for giving Motown their first number one hit. How do you not honor that?

3)The Vandellas not being invited is also weird. I get that Martha was the indisputable focal point of that trio, but the entire time Martha was at Motown, she was part of the ensemble known as Martha [[and later Reeves) and the Vandellas. Annette, Roz and Betty should have been on that stage helping Martha sing the hits.

4)Martha, Mary and Junior Walker being reduced to a snippet of a song is insane. Single for single, only the Supremes and, arguably, the Shirelles had more hit singles of any female group in the 60s. Mary Wells was the priority act for the label for those first few years, and she made good on her potential. How do they not get a medley of songs each? While I dig Junior, I would be okay with him only doing one song, but it should have been the entire song, not a snippet.

5)The Funk Brothers basically ignored was disrespectful, perhaps most of all. Why is James Jamerson, integral to the adored Motown Sound, having to buy a ticket to the show? Why weren't the Funks reunited? Disrespectful as hell.

So for all the gripes we may have about our beloved Supremes reuniting and screwing it up, there were some bigger travesties that evening, which Motown never seemed to attempt to rectify with most subsequent celebrations.

my guess is the producers were looking at what would be of interest to the broader group of viewers. they wanted big ratings which would hopefully lead to big record sales. and not just of their past catalog but current too. they were desperate to show that motown was still an extremely current and viable label. so quickly rotating through a few Greatest Hits of artists that were potentially less well known was i guess their thought with the Mary Wells/Martha/Jr Walker segment. and given the never-ending angst among the various Temps groupings, the Otis group at least had 5 tall black men which the average person would easily assume was The Temptations. plus they were the group touring and promoting themselves as such. I don't know that the public would recognize the idea of "a temps reunion of all members" as momentous as the reunion of Diana Ross with the Supremes. so since they had the otis group, i guess they figured good enough.


from a big fan perspective though it was a pretty terrible approach to things. to not have the Ms was terrible. and the opening dance number/song of Dancing in the streets was 200X longer than the snippet they gave Martha to sing Heatwave.

[telekin]

I looked for Randy and Mary's books to see if there was any mention of coordinating wardrobes for the show and there was absolutely nothing mentioned. I guess it did come from a fan somewhere. I apologize if I continued any misinformation.

Apologies from me also. Funny how these things get repeated enough times, they just become part of the legend, as it were!

Regarding the supposed dress code, here's a quote from an interview Suzanne de Passe gave to EBONY magazine for the DVD release:

EBONY: There are a lot of stories about the night of the taping, one being that Diana Ross and Mary Wilson were fighting with each other. I’ve read that Wilson wearing a red dress, instead of black and white, made Ross upset. Is that true?

SP: No, not at all. The dress code wasn’t something we were worried about. We just wanted to get the three of them on stage at the same time. If Mary Wilson had shown up in a potato sack, I would’ve been fine with it. [laughter] I thought they both looked stunning.

https://www.ebony.com/suzanne-de-pas...motown-25-250/